The American Civil War

People who know nothing about the Civil War will say it was about slavery.

People who know a little about the Civil War will say it was about states rights.

People who know a lot about the Civil War know it was about slavery.

>>2197542
>good guys
>thus an implication of bad guys
Anon
Dear sweet anon
Please no

The good guys were the ones who didn't throw a tantrum over the results of a democratic election and consequently get 600,000 people killed in an ultimately pointless war.

>>2197555
Lincoln didn't have to antagonize though.

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>>2197546

this tbhfam

>>2197555
Both sides were to blame for escalating the conflict and making it inevitable, if you buy into the "irrepressible conflict" school of thought. The hotheads on both sides had irreconcilable differences in ideology by the 1850s and war was in a way inevitable.

>>2197546
I don't know why it's so difficult for some people to admit it was largely about the South's desire for the state's rights to own slaves.

>>2197542
The South was basically just insecure that the North was industrializing and becoming economically dominant. They used the fear that the Republicans would outlaw slavery, even though Lincoln did not plan to do so, as an excuse to secede. It wasn't really exactly about states rights or slavery, but the underlying ideological differences between the north and south which manifested themselves in the divide over slavery.

>>2197566
>antagonize

By doing what, getting elected?

>>2197608
>The South was basically just insecure that the North was industrializing and becoming economically dominant.

WRONG. just as retarded as the states rights fucks.

It was about slave states being out numbered by free states

>>2197614
That and the desire of the South to continue to dominate the North politically and impose their will on northern free states via the federal government and the Supreme Court. They only cared about their own state's rights, they didn't care about northern anti-slavery state laws being ignored and violated by the federal government with the Fugitive Slave Act, the Dred Scott decision and other cases.

>>2197546
it was about states rights

the states' rights to legislate on one very specific issue

>>2197614
>It was about slave states being out numbered by free states
Which they feared the north (which was the economic powerhouse, not the free western states) would use to outlaw slavery.

>>2197580
shouldn't USA have the red hair considering the mass importation of Irish to serve as quite excellent cannon fodder

>>2197580
The fact that there isn't a better drawn version of this is criminal.

>>2197542
>Lincoln knew very well that he was instigating aggression against the South and made clear of that in his letter to Pope Pius IX
I'm just paraphrasing that but it was something I got off of normalfagbook from those historical ads centered to me. I tried finding it online but I think I'm using the wrong keywords. Anybody know if it's true and where I can find the letter?

pretty interesting to go back and read the 1860 republican party platform
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=29620

>3. That to the Union of the States this nation owes its unprecedented increase in population, its surprising development of material resources, its rapid augmentation of wealth, its happiness at home and its honor abroad; and we hold in abhorrence all schemes for disunion, come from whatever source they may. And we congratulate the country that no Republican member of Congress has uttered or countenanced the threats of disunion so often made by Democratic members, without rebuke and with applause from their political associates; and we denounce those threats of disunion, in case of a popular overthrow of their ascendency as denying the vital principles of a free government, and as an avowal of contemplated treason, which it is the imperative duty of an indignant people sternly to rebuke and forever silence.

That makes things pretty damn clear, a republican president will treat secession as an act of treason.

>>2197588
Because it wasn't.

>On May 1, 1833 Jackson wrote, "the tariff was only a pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question."

>>2197677
Are you implying the South was gonna secede eventually anyway?

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>>2197687
Yes, because it was about a desire to separate from people (Yankees) that they considered too different from themselves to be able to live together in harmony. It's pretty clear when you read quotes and memoirs from confederate soldiers and generals that none of them actually cared about slavery. They cared about the state they were from and about freedom from what they perceived as northern oppression. Did you know that Stonewall Jackson referred to the war as "our second war of independence"? After reading much on the subject, I realized that he was right.

>>2197719
I really wish you retards would have left permanently. Next time around, I don't think many people will try to prevent you from leaving.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZgXH8IJGgg

>>2197632
Probably focusing on the New England power overlooking the Union through the English Americans I'm guessing. I myself am unsure as to why the South is depicted with red hair though.

>>2197632
Remember that battle where a bunch of northern Irishmen got murdered by a bunch of southern Irishmen?

>>2198112
Fredericksburg?

>>2198114
Yeah shit was great. ((I legit forgot which divisions they were, I was gonna include it in my post but I can't find my source.))

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>>2198102
White American Southerners are primarily of Scots-Irish extraction.

>>2198130
only true for appallachians, not the deep south

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>>2198148
The saltire speaks for itself.

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>>2198151
til russians are actually glaswegians.

And the "Scots-Irish" that settled Appallachia aren't normal Scots. Their culture is based on borderers who were neither English nor Scottish and were hated by both.

>>2198188

>an entire country of bellicose, untelligible, heroin and booze loving nutters who love tracksuits and making orky shit to blow other shit up.

explains a lot.

>>2198200
Their history is basically this

>be niggers on the English/Scottish borders
>King decides he wants to get rid of you and that you might be savage enough to survive In Ireland so he sends you there.
>be niggers for the next 400 years in Ireland
>Move to America in large numbers
>Quakerfags, Puritans and Virginians take one look and collectively say fuck no so you get sent to Appallachia
>proceed to act like niggers until the present.

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>>2198188
>tfw hated by all

nice doubles btw

>>2197542
technically, yes, but we shouldn't be happy about it. people died; that's terrible, even if they died for a bad cause.

>>2197546

>People who know a lot about the Civil War know it was about trade and electoral politics.

FTFY.

>>2198496
Specifically, the electoral politics of slavery.

>>2197732
>gets completely annihilated and proven wrong
>HURR YOUR A RETARD LEAVE

>>2197546
Historians that study the south during that time period say it was about states rights.

>>2198783
People who read primary sources and the actual instruments of secession say it was about slavery.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html

Here, I'll get some for you.

>>2198783
Not really, considering that southern states had fewer rights than northern ones.

>>2197719
Confederate soldiers and generals didn't run the Confederacy. They were fodder in the Southern aristocracy's plan to hang onto their wealth, power and completely unAmerican place in society.

>>2197719
>"second war of independence"
>first side to institute a mandatory draft
>suspension of rights across the board for the duration of the war
>attempts to ally with the British constantly until the British tell them to fuck off

Yeah, so brave.

>>2198805
>Confederate soldiers and generals didn't run the Confederacy.
Maybe not, but they still supported the country and fought like devils for their independence. They didn't fight to preserve slavery.

>and completely unAmerican place in society.
The founding fathers believed and letting states decide if they wanted slavery or not. Nothing unAmerican about it.
>>2198815
They were vastly outnumbered and needed all the help they could get. The relatively low desertion rate and brave performance in battle proves that most wanted to fight.

>>2198833
>The relatively low desertion rate and brave performance in battle proves that most wanted to fight.

>Confederate Virginians fled military service at a rate of between 10 and 15 percent, more or less comparable to the desertion rate among Union troops, which stood between 9 and 12 percent.

>A careful study of the 44th Virginia Infantry Regiment revealed a shockingly high desertion rate of nearly 30 percent

>The government and military also used methods other than execution to battle desertion. Detachments of troops scoured the countryside in an effort to find stragglers and deserters and return them to the ranks. In the mountains of southwestern Virginia, bands of deserters resisted capture by the government, and by late in 1864 they posed a serious enough threat that the Confederate government sent regular soldiers to Floyd County to restore order. In that region, at least, desertion did in fact represent a rejection of the Confederacy.

>Desertions escalated substantially in the final months of the war, as Union general-in-chief Ulysses S. Grant finally broke through Lee's defense of Richmond and Petersburg, on April 2, 1865, and sent the Confederate army west in retreat. As many as several hundred men per night fled the army even before Richmond fell. On the march toward Appomattox, thousands more also deserted—mostly Virginians and North Carolinians, whose homes were already temptingly close.

That's actually pretty awful for desertion rates, especially considering they deserted in droves towards the end of the war.

http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Desertion_Confederate_during_the_Civil_War#start_entry

>>2198783
gotta love that texas one

>We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

You just went full racist Texas, never go full racist. Though I have to say that document is the best written of all the declarations of secession.

>>2198863
>That's actually pretty awful for desertion rates, especially considering they deserted in droves towards the end of the war.
Desertion on the losing side of a war always happens at the end as armies are scattered and skews the statistics. When you consider that proportionally more men of the south than men of the north fought, that they were almost always outnumbered, under-supplied and under-equipped (many didn't even have shoes), that they resisted for almost half a decade, and that the data is skewed by the collapse at the end, I'd say that they fought pretty bravely overall.

>>2197542
There are no "good guys" in war. Only winners and losers.

>>2198240
I love this meme. Yes they just decided to up and leave, got all their nigger money and set forth to America. They definitely didn't go as slaves, or at best indentured servants, no no no. Because only blacks were slaves in the south. No people from Ireland anywhere.

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>>2199076
>Following the Battle of Bothwell Brig on June 22, 1679, some 1200 prisoners were taken and incarcerated in a make shift, open air prison next to the Greyfriars Kirk in Edinburgh. Of these prisoners, 257 erstwhile ringleaders and ministers were sentenced to be transported to the West Indies or Virginia as white slaves.

http://www.thereformation.info/covenanters4.htm

>>2197732
Not an argument.

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>>2198783
"""""""""""""""""historians"""""""""""""""""

>>2197546
First post is best post.

>>2197566
>South fires upon federal property that undeniably still belonged to the Union
>SOUTH DINDU NUFFIN LINCOLN WAS ANTAGAONIZING US

>>2197546
This is the correct answer.

>>2198188
Master-race border reiver here. Daily reminder we provided first man on the moon.

The slavery issue is a little messed up.

It may have been started over slavery and the right to keep others, but I'm 100% sure a good amount of southerners that fought were fighting for their homes and their states despite not owning slaves.

Propaganda is a hell of a thing.

>>2197624
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Clause

The south was trying to impose their will on the north by wanting them to follow the Constitution?

>>2197546
If that's not a quote, it may be one of the most insightful posts I've ever read on all of 4chan.

>>2200003

>lets kill 1/5 men in the country cause of a border skirmish where nobody was even hurt

Lincoln was a bad president. Couldn't even negotiate with half the fucking country before trying to kill them all.

>>2197555

>the south killed 600,000 people

It was the North that kept invading Southern land, not the other way around.

Terrible thread. It's impossible to have an intelligent conversation about the civil war without idiots spamming
>Lincoln was a good boy who didndu nuffin
>all southerners are racists who deserved to be murdered
>the south had no right to secede because I disagree with their opinions on race relations
Civil war discussion is nothing more than a delusional yankee circlejerk.

>>2201039
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I LOVE DIXIE TEARS

I live in a country you probably haven't even heard of, and I can basically promise you you're the butt of every joke about America. Southerners are so pathetic its funny.

>>2200435
all wars are economic

>>2201066
You just proved my point friend. These threads are filled with (unanimously pro-northern) shit flinging and other off topic posts. All of your "hilarious" banter about the south belongs in /int/ along with threads shitposting about the Yugoslav wars. /his/ is NOT /pol/ with dates.

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>>2201039
No, you're just buttblasted because the "hurr states rights" argument hasn't been valid since the Dylann Roof incident brought the heat down on your little "lost cause of the south" meme and actual historians rolled out a few primary sources which more or less conclusively proved that the southerners seceded over the issue of slavery.

>Lincoln was a good boy who didndu nuffin
The consensus is that Lincoln was a compromise moderate who specifically ran on a platform of keeping the union intact and preventing new slave states from being made, but that these were political concessions and in all of his private correspondences he detested slavery.

And Jefferson Davis swore up and down that could he have exercised executive authority the way Lincoln could, the south could have won, so no tears about Lincoln's emergency wartime powers, the goal in war is to win, not preserve the other side's feelings and sense of honor.

>all southerners are racists who deserved to be murdered
This is obviously not true. Most southerners were fighting for the simple reason that there were soldiers in their backyard and the problem was almost exclusively with the ruling class. But this is also the case for ISIS, Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, etc.

>the south had no right to secede because I disagree with their opinions on race relations
Not only was there never any legal precedent for secession, but their end goal was to turn the southern United States into an old European style feudal state ruled by a privileged aristocracy of landowners who justified themselves with pseudoscience and took your grandpappy and all his friends for a ride.

>Civil war discussion is nothing more than a delusional yankee circlejerk.
You're just sad because your argument has no water

>>2200435
The confederate leaders like Davis started it for slavery, and told his men lies that it was for freedom. Stonewall Jackson is a good example of this.

>>2201090
No, we're having fun and laughing at you. You're /pol/ here, not me.

>>2201091
>the goal of war is to win, even at the expense of the consitution you are sworn to defend
Go to bed Abraham

>>2201097
>everything I don't like is /pol/

>>2201079

War is a racket!

>>2201093

Yeah. Propaganda.

>>2201103
You literally said the same thing lmao

go fuck your dad, cletus.

>>2201101
>the goal of war is to win, even at the expense of the consitution you are sworn to defend
First of all, if you're going to defend the "constitution" you can at least spell it right.

Second of all, Lincoln preserved the constitution which your confederates wanted to shred up and start over, but without all of that "provide for the general welfare" business.

third of all, what part of 'emergency wartime powers' is difficult for you to comprehend? Yes, it was in fact an emergency, allowing Lincoln far more reaching powers than what are normally granted to a president. Once the war was over these emergency powers went away and the status quo reasserted itself

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>>2201101
>Habeus Corpus can be suspended in periods of rebellion
>the South was not in open rebellion

>>2201109
I said you were /pol/ because you made a retarded shitpost about regional differences. You claimed that I was /pol/ because you disagreed with my opinion.

>>2201119
haha, no. you're pol because you're defending a nation founded on defending slavery

>I didn't call you /pol/ because I disagree with your opinions, I called you /pol/ because I disagree with your opinions
This thread belongs on /int/

>>2201091
Commenting on your pic, and nothing else: In all fairness, no one in the Confederacy gave two shits about what Little Aleck said or did.

>>2201206
The same thing can be said about any vice-president because it's not like they have much in the way of official powers.

But unofficially they're often key wheeling and dealing power brokers so their influence is usually way understated

>>2197546
For the south, it was about states rights over federal rights. For the north it was about preserving the union.

>>2201103
I'm /pol/ and Idislike the CSA because it was a bunch of mulattoes and nigger lovers creating their own nigger paradise of a country.

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>>2197555
>democratic election
>literally nobody in the South voted for Lincoln

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>>2201491
>These are the rules for the election, okay?
>Okay
>Wait we lost I don't like this anymore
Hillary tier.

>>2200881
Dred Scott was not fleeing

>>2201491
>nobody on my street voted for X so this isn't democratic!

>>2197542
Good guys = South
Bad guys = North

>>2201649
>southern jigaboo connoisseurs
>good guys

>>2201970
This.

>people ignore the fact that the Confederacy took advantage of the Civil War to flout the ban on importing new slaves and ship even more black people into the US

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>>2201992
>>2201970

>>2201491
Literally nobody voted for him because he literally wasn't on the ballet, which is literally illegal.

The South tried to rig the election, lost anyway, threw a tantrum over it, then lost that. It would be difficult to find a region more cucked than the South.

>>2202111
It's not rigging at all. Lincoln was just so unpopular that it didn't even make sense to put him.

>>2201992

>>2202025
The South has the largest percentage of African Americans of all regions in the country. This makes demographic sense with all the blacks in the South. New Yorkers are obviously the real nigger lovers.

>>2202212
http://www.ibtimes.com/white-southerners-likely-have-more-black-dna-whites-elsewhere-us-study-1765498

>>2197542
No

>>2202225
BLACKED: The Actual Southern Tradition

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>>2202225
>>2202241
>Several states, which have been the focal points of racial tensions in the U.S. over the years, are made up of self-described white people whose ancestors are black
>In addition, the study found that African-Americans are more likely to have a European male ancestor (19 percent) than a European female one (5 percent)
>Tfw your culture's men have a history of jungle fever, spawning little black chilluns who desperately want to identify with their white daddy.

>>2202133
>changing ballot papers to exclude a candidate
>"no one was going to vote for him anyway so it doesn't count"
Yeah sure thing dude

>>2197546
fpbp

>>2197588
Because they find it very hard to defend the indefensible. Their preconcieved notion is that the South were the good guys and they'll do mental gymnastics in any way possible to justify it.

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>>2197719
Fuck off. That response is meme tier.

>>2202551
Why? How is it meme tier? I meant what I wrote.

>>2202553
Kys stop perpetuating southerner memes that the South didn't care about slavery and it was really all just about the peaceful South not being able to live in harmony with the North. You even call the North "yankees" lol you giant fucking meme. You've just decided you wanted to side with the South because you're a contrarian or a LARPer or both.

>>2198865
>never go full racist
Why not?

>>2202572
>memes that the South didn't care about slavery and it was really all just about the peaceful South not being able to live in harmony with the North.
But it's all true. If you studied primary sources instead of US propaganda, you would know that.

>You even call the North "yankees" lol you giant fucking meme.
So what? They call themselves like that too.

>>2202579
>If you studied primary sources instead of US propaganda, you would know that.

You mean like the founding documents of the Confederate states and what the actual leadership wrote about the whole thing? Okay lol.

What some useful idiot cuck soldiers had to say about their motivations for serving the Confederacy are irrelevant to the big picture. Same goes for what the northern soldiers had to say versus what their leaders said about the causes and objectives of the war were.

>>2202579
>But it's all true. If you studied primary sources instead of US propaganda, you would know that.
>>2201091

>>2201502
I wish based Sherman would come back

>>2202597
>>2202600
Those documents prove that the leadership believe in black inferiority and slavery. It doesn't prove that the entirety of the war was all about slavery.

>>2200891
>commit an act of war
>WOOOOOW why did they declare war on us nothing we could do
You reap what you sow, and you sisterfuckers reaped the whirlwind. We need a second March to the Sea

>>2202605
It proves that the Confederacy was built upon a foundation of defending slavery and white supremacy, correct. And that the leadership of the South seceded based primarily on these principals (the "state's rights" to own slaves). Anything else is irrelevant.

>>2202623
It was literally just a pretext. Huge cultural divisions already existed.

>On May 1, 1833 Jackson wrote, "the tariff was only a pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question."

>>2202629
>I WAS ONLY PRETENDING TO BE RACIST

k lol

>>2202649
Nobody said they weren't racist. We're just trying to explain you how slavery was just a pretext to create a new country for southerners.

>>2202684
A new, more unequal, less egalitarian country with a landed aristocratic gentry in charge, sure. Just admit that and stop pretending like they were such freedom fighters for the little man when the exact opposite is the case. The northern Free Soilers and the early Republican party were more true to the democratic principles of the Constitution (and Jeffersonian visions of democracy) than the southern aristocrats ever were. The poor whites in the South were treated like dogshit, but at least they weren't black slaves, right?

>>2202649
This. Watching this Confederate LARPer retard do mental gymnastics is making me kek.

>>2202699
They weren't aristocratic. Sure, there were rich land owners, but it was the same in every countries. In both the US and CS, you didn't have a hereditary class of people who were above the law like in the rest of the world, so there was no aristocracy. Rich northern capitalists didn't give a shit about people either and ruthlessly exploited them for decades, sparking socialist movements to become popular around the end of the 19th century.

This is all irrelevant anyway because southern men and women themselves wanted secession and were cheering when it happened. It's not like they hated their leadership.

>>2197671

Gotta admit though, there's something off about that. The states swore no eternal oath of loyalty and perpetual union. The country was supposed to be a voluntary federation of free and sovereign states, come together for their mutual benefit and defense. Why should they never be permitted to break off? It's not really in keeping with the ideals that founded the nation in the first place.

>>2202750
Perhaps not, and yet no provision for secession was included and no state seems to have objected to this at the time of their inclusion

Are there even bigger babies than Southernfags? Whine whine whine.

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>>2202111
>ballet

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>>2198112
DELET THIS

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>>2202575
modern regimes that go full racist have a track record of not lasting that long

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pointless to make this thread

good guys is a dumb term to use in a civil war

certainly the union being preserved is a net positive for the United States of America

>>2200910
Just sayin, Lee did fuck around in MD and almost made it to DC

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>>2203136
>certainly the union being preserved is a net positive for the United States of America

Debatable, especially with the precedents of executive power and overreach set by Lincoln. It may have been better to scrap the whole thing and let us balkanize rather than scrap Constitutional principles.

>>2203249

and be the playthings of european powers and God knows what else

yeah, get out

>>2203269
Better to burn out bright in a blaze of centennial glory than to slowly lose the founding Constitutional principles as we continuously play world police.

>>2203278

it's idiotic to separate a people that are the same like some european autistic succession map

>>2203282
>it's idiotic to separate a people that are the same
Yeah because the United States has never had deep cultural divides and regional animosities. Y'know the kind that start wars.

>>2203316

its enemies would love to encourage your bullshit

>>2203324
There are literally zero sources to substantiate that that any European power has ever worked to incite civil war or regional strife in the US. It's a meme. Our problems are purely our own.

Great Britain wouldn't even enter the war after the Union blockade of Southern ports nearly ended their cotton mill industry. France had no business fucking about in America at that time or at any time post-1803.

>>2203351

you're naive

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico

>>2203351
>There are literally zero sources to substantiate that that any European power has ever worked to incite civil war or regional strife in the US

lol

>>2203365
Mexico is not the United States. And they failed to topple the Mexican state, something that the still fledgling United States had done almost twenty years before.

>>2198728
Or the slave trade

Burgers killing burgers = no good guys

t - Burger McBurgerson

>>2200910
>It was the North that kept invading Southern land, not the other way around.
Start shit get hit

>>2197546
this is why I haven't studied the civil war at all, because I know I'm probably right and as american conflicts go it's boring as fuck anyway

>>2197555
>democracy is the most important aspect of society

democracy is probably the best system but it's a low priority. If peoples rights are being abused it doesn't matter if it was a democratic vote or not, especially considering how easy you can subvert representative voting with money and referendums with tabloid.

That being said the north were definitely the lesser evil

>>2202750
>america was founded on fair ideals

>>2198112
every sunday within 10 miles of the border during the 80's?

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Why is he so based?

>>2207031
He isn't. Fuck off back to /pol/.

>>2205158

yeah, uh huh

that hasn't changed the fact that you're wrong

>>2207569
>There are literally zero sources to substantiate that that any European power has ever worked to incite civil war or regional strife in the US

Mexico is not the US. That hasn't changed the fact that you're a mongoloid.

>>2207582
this

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The CSA seceded because of slavery. Read CSA vice president Alexander Stephen's "Cornerstone" address to the Confederate Congress celebrating their secession:

"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution."

>>2207966
>CSA seceded because they were nigger lovers
ftfy

>>2197542
The Confederates were right. It was a war of union aggression

>>2205853
The details are interesting.

There's a lot of infighting and politicking as the US tries to throw together a competent enough general staff to win a total war.

It was also one of the first real industrialized conflicts.

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>>2197542
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(You)

>>2197546

Basically this

The whole "states' rights" thing is pure bullshit

t. Studied the US civil war for A Level (that's high school for you guys)

>>2201436
They SAID it was about states' rights but it was REALLY about slavery

That was the only thing they really wanted the right to decide wasn't it?

>>2210897
They didn't actually say it was states rights until after the war.

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>>2207560

>killed 31 yankareenos in hand to hand combat
>raised and led one of the most disruptive and feared cavalry regiments of the war (out of his own pocket)
>is handsome
>m-m-muh union is morally superior
>not based

doesn't matter what your political values are bitchboy, he was based n u kno it

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>>2197542
no, the bad guys won.

The north pussied out and let the southern aristocracy live. These southern oligarchs have been co-opting the US federal government since then. Turning it into the very sort of tyrannical institution they feared with would become during the civil war.

The southerners have spread their awful culture around the US through steal colonization called "section 8 housing."

All of the country has given African American's a moral free pass because they would rather pretend they don't exist. Seeing how they can literally get away with murder and crime, all the lowest scum from other groups are following in ghetto black's footsteps.

Since the Civil War America has become more tyrannical, more stressful, and less European. It's beyond me why the North thought they could be empire builders. They were founded by religious separatists who traveled half-way around the world because they wanted to be left alone!

>>2198240
>>acting like niggers.

Where do you think blacks learned it from?

>>2198798
>>2198789
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>>2197542

Isn't the fact that we still can't agree over what the war was fought over the very point?

The north felt one thing was the most important thing to confront-slavery. The south felt some other thing was the most important thing to confront-state autonomy. The war was fought because the two sides didn't agree on what was most important.

>>2211356
This is an interesting post although the argument is all over the place.

>>2211379
>Isn't the fact that we still can't agree over what the war was fought over the very point?

No.

That's for pussy liberals who are afraid of offending anyone.

>well that guy disagrees
>we don't have CONSENSUS yet

No, the primary documents say it was about slavery. That isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Burgerland is so fucked because most people are too stupid to play Binky's facts and opinions.

>>2211408
I mean. some evidence supporting your claim would be nice. got any of that, old chap?

Have any of those magical 'primary documents' that will put this bear to bed?

>>2197542
The Confederacy seceded over States' rights to continue upholding slavery.

The Civil War started because a Confederate armed group attacked Fort Sumter.

That's it. That's all.

>>2207582

jesus christ you're dumb

>>2211511
not an argument, but keep trying friendo

>>2211569

An insult isn't an argument, you simply are not capable of thinking,

That's the point!

>>2211475
http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html

You already replied to it, friendo.

The actual declarations of secession.

It trumps feels any day of the week.

>>2211584
>An insult isn't an argument, you simply are not capable of thinking,
>That's the point!

I invite you to answer my original challenge then:
>There are literally zero sources to substantiate that that any European power has ever worked to incite civil war or regional strife in the US. It's a meme. Our problems are purely our own.

Provide a source or shut the fuck up, mongoloid.

>>2211622

are you just uneducated?

have to have things spoon fed to you?

I put forward again that you are naive to think the foreign powers of Europe would not manipulate a weakened united states to their benefit

honestly

you should kys

>>2211587

Thank you.


I'm not even sure what you think my opinion on the matter is, but it certainly isn't 'muh feels.' Learn to ask questions before assuming you know people's minds.

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>>2211634
Exactly, you have no source. No sources exist. You made a claim with absolutely nothing to back it up and when pressed for evidence, you retreat in fear.

Thanks for showing yourself to be a fucking faggot. Fuck off back to /pol/

>>2211646

there actually are sources, but I'm not your teacher

Lord knows you could have used one

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>>2197719
>this
Also holy shit baby cuck yankee "white nationalists" incoming.
Last thread was filled with portlandites complaining about how honor bound southern tradition didnt matter because they have .1% black blood

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>>2203249
>this.
Also it is debatable the the destruction of southern infrastructure and the poverty that still haunts the south is actually more expensive in modern day than to have allowed the south to secede peacefully.
Sure the united states would be smaller and have to import raw resources but hundreds of thousands of lives wouldnt had been lost and the union would have had to be shattered so violently. People in the south still dont trust the federal government and for good reason - they maybe never will.

>>2211657

what is the point of your post

it's nonsense

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>>2211651
Shut the fuck up and die, you hack. This is an academic board.

>>2211665

this is just stupid

>>2211672

then why the fuck are you here

>>2211651

>When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.

He's right, fuck off.

>>2211634
>>2211651
>>2211676

>Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected.

>When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.

>>2211682

I don't have to provide a source just because someone asks for it insistently like a total prat

>>2211687
When you blatantly breaking board rules and making bullshit claims with no sources to back it up, then yes. Yes, you do.

MODS

>>2211687

You should post your source because of the nature of the board.

>>2211692

you're ignoring the fact that I even did provide a source for this asshole that spoke to french intervention on the continent

you literally need to scroll up and quit being a faggot

>>2211694

drop dead

>>2197546
Somebody screencap this shit!

>>2211695
You're misdirecting. He challenged you to provide a source that substantiated the assertion that a European power intervened in the United States' regional strife.

When pressed for a source, you started acting like a cornered underage b&.

>>2211707

he wouldn't have to look far past the source provided to find the french involvement in the united states, do I fucking have to hold his hand

frankly I was insulted, and you should butt out

>>2197546

That's strange I read your whole post and didn't find one argument

It was really about slavery.

>>2211710
You keep saying there are sources of French involvement in US civil strife, but there aren't any. There are actual historians on this board, do you think this would not have been discussed already?

kys

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>>2212686

I don't want to talk to you silly hick types no more.

Your mother was a hamster, and your farther smelled of elder berries.

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>>2211288
I'm a pro-union yankee myself and it actually is hard to argue with NBF, that guy had solid brass testicles and didn't give one single lousy little fuck. He was a huge thorn in the Union's side for a long time, and the KKK he later founded would be a thorn in the side of the country for a long time.

>>2215055
Nobody really celebrates people for "being a huge nigger"

I mean, except for black America and the south, but other than that.

>>2215081
>"being a huge nigger"
This may have been true, but he nigged out in ways that made him a real asset to the CSA's war effort.

Not that I think he was based, but when you look at what he did it's hard not to at least respect his tenacity.

>>2197542
>Did the good guys win? Were there even "good guys" in this conflict?

Both sides were Ame*icans, so no