Pedophile research

>>2196669
Hi

>What would you do if you found out you are attracted to kids
I would suppress it, given that my sex drive wouldn't be any bigger than it is now.
I survived the horny years of puberty without having sex, and still I didn't feel like raping anybody or even taking advantage of others.
I wouldn't tell anybody, though. I would be terribly afraid of what people would be thinking of me and afraid of losing my closest friends. My family would probably be supportive, but I know they would be disappointed.

>What should you do?
Tell at least my family, certainly.

>Is it something inherently evil?
No, it's not your fault for having a certain sexual orientation

>>2196669
P I Z Z A G A T E

>>2197171
>pedo
>sexual orientation

Pick one

>>2196669
It's probably the real cause of many suicides that are officially attributed to something else.
That's just a guess though.
Like someone becoming so depressed and hopeless realizing the horror in his very being.

>>2196669
Is it even possible for someone to be attracted to kids exclusively?

>>2196669
probably seek treatment and therapy from a non-Jewish doctor

>>2197253
>seek treatment and therapy
Isn't that almost impossible for that?

Wat een kankerdraad zeg.

>>2197253
I think the only "treatment" for pedophilia is libido suppressing drugs.
Like trying to heal gays.

>>2197259
>>2197266
if I were a pedophile there would be some root cause for it that a got therapist would illuminate for me

>>2196669
Go ask /b/, you'll probably get some good answers

>>2197275
*goy therapist

>>2197275

Yeah right, that therapist would promptly report you the to authorities right after your session.

>>2197210
kek

>>2197290
but I haven't committed a crime

Since God hates pedos, i would repent.

>>2197290
It wouldn't be a crime to just feel attraction to kids

Unless you confessed to the therapist that you molested kids, in which case, yeah.

>>2197171
>tell your family you're a pedophile
kek, imagine the family meetings
>young nephew comes up
>hey anon want to play?
>sure!
>everyone looks at you with a horrified face

>>2197303

Pedos are so hated, I wouldn't put it passed therapists and the police to act on just being attracted.

>>2197297

Neither did the guys who showed up on To Catch A Predator

>>2196669
Hoe oud zijn jullie?
>Inherently evil
>Objective morality

Moralists get out plz

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>>2196669
Ask /a/

>>2197402
>therapists
Nah, vindictive cunts tend to wash out of social services unless they find work where they can actually control people, like tard wranglers.

The problem with therapy and pedophilia is that it's a hugely understudied issue so vast majority of therapists will not be able to offer anyone any substantial insight on the matter. Therapists working with pedophiles tend to deal mostly with the pedo's other issues like OCD or anxiety disorders as a means of mitigation.

>police
Sure.

>>2197407
>To Catch A Predator
>look it up

Holy shit that's retarded
If a minor goes around asking for sex, of course some men are gonna oblige, doesn't even needs to be people with that particular preference.

>>2197574
I haven't watch a lot of TCaP but I thought the deal was the bait never actually initiated any lewd discussion and would only respond to lewd talk with short yes or no answers (Q: u haev condoom? A: no lol).

>>2197597
The wikipedia article said the bait was often the one to bring up sex
I never really watched it though so no idea if it's right

>unironically defending kiddy diddly fiddlers even in the tiniest aspect
Pedos are mentally ill and should be castrated.

Is loli an acceptable outlet for these men?

>>2197619
It's unjust to punish someone for feeling something they can't control.

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I just fap to 2D and don't take it any further, never told anyone but my closest friend. Not my choice, won't do anything stupid that could get me in trouble.

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>>2196669
So close to 4 repeating numbers...
>What if you find out you're attracted to kids?
I know i am attracted to kids before I even started becoming an adult.
>What would you do?
Watch hentai, resist the urges
>What should you do?
As long as I can contain myself, nothing.

This is a question about self-control as is with anything that you know is illegal and might get you in trouble.

Some people want to shoot up schools, some really want to fuck kids

As long as you dont DO anything, nobody should be able to do anything to you.

>>2197213
Some are born with the condition of liking children. Personally im pedophobic. I hate children.

>>2197259
Not in Germany. They offer treatment for pedos.

>>2197708
There is no real treatment though

>>2197781
palliative treatment

>What if you find out you're attracted to kids? What would you do? What should you do?

I am attracted to children. There is not much you can do, besides fapping to lolicon and try to divertente your desires away. I suppose there is a way to cope in a way that may allow you to set it aside for long periods of time, but I did not have much luck in getting it from a psychologist/psychotherapist, as in my case they are steadfast in their denial.

Is it inherently evil? The act of having sex with kids is rape, fair and square, but the desires are something else entirely. We are talking about the only sexual orientation (there are proofs leading to that, but it is not conclusive) that has no way of working out ever, or it would require extreme circumnstances to qualify as a normal sexual act; so it is not something one wants to do willy-nilly, but it is not something one and accept lightheartedly either.

>>2196669
>What if you find out you're attracted to kids? What would you do? What should you do?

I'd seek therapy.

>Is it something inherently evil?

It is not, but we can't let adults, that know and admit they are sexually attracted to children, stay unchecked and just shrug it off.

Unsated desires leads to frustration, frustration leads to the act.

Maybe today you swear that you wouldn't harm a child even though you want to sex them, but will you be able to control yourself if you get emotionally destabilized because of something like losing your job?

>>2197851
Thanks for your reply!

What do you think society should do with the issue? Should they offer extra opportunities for pedophiles to change? Or is it only the rapist ones we should be worried about and remove the stigma around the sexuality itself?

>>2197788
You can also give drugs to suppress a homosexual's libido and call it "palliative treatment"

[spoiler]I'm not saying pedophiles shouldn't ever do it cause it has different societal implications. Just something to think about[/spoiler]

>>2197907
The difference is that homosexuals are now considered mostly welcome to practice their sexuality in society.
If homosexuality was still stigmatized such that their sexuality would be a terrible idea to act on, suppression would be a valid from of palliative treatment.

Regardless of the morality of the issue, the fact that society would murder you if you acted on your desires means that suppressing your desires would indeed be a stress reliever for a pedo.

>>2197867
Stress and frustration lead to bad choices that can hurt people around you no matter who or how you are. Also, considering your desire to assert control over someone, why would they admit anything to you? All you've done is give pedos a reason to not be truthful with you.

>>2197875
What do you mean by change?

Society has a legitimate concern regarding all pedos as potential abusers, however protecting children and respecting people who've done no wrong don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Basically all data shows that the more someone is integrated into society, the less likely they are to carry antisocial activity. Ostracizing pedos can lead to a 'cornered rat' situation where a pedo may feel like he has no reason NOT to abuse a child since he has nothing left to live for anyways. Might as well do it and kill himself if he gets caught.

>>2197875
The problem is that it all depends on wheter a cure (as in a pill, an injection or something of that nature which, if taken regulary, will eliminate desire for children without also damaging normal sexual activity) is possible or not. The possibility of an actual cure should bring about an encouragment for Paedophile to "take their meds," in a system like: ree of charge or exclusive Paedophiles that didn't offend, half price for non-exclusives that didn't offend and full price for who offended.

If the cure turned out to be either impossible or Forbidden due o the Isle of possible unwanted uses if tweaked (I suspect that LQGTB groups would be afraid of it being modified to enforce heterosexuality and homophobes would Scream Bloody Murder at he mere thought of "gay pills"), then the only way to go about it would be eliminate he stigma around non-offenders and focus on actual child molesters.

Personally? I hope there is a cure and that emotions will not prevail that day.

Would the victims even feel bad about what happened to them if society didn't tell them they should feel bad?

>>2197418
Paar van die kankerzweverige kunstenaarskindjes met lang vet haar waarschijnlijk.

>>2198165
Controversial, but I'd say no unless we're talking literal rape.

>>2198173
Plenty of adults regret consensual sex.

It would obviously feel pretty bad to be a naive child and have sex with someone you thought loved you because they gave you attention, and then later grow up and find out they're really just a creep who only wanted to have sex with you, and have possibly been doing the same thing with other children in the meanwhile.

Regardless of how you feel about pedophilia, pedos that kidnap kids deserve no mercy.

>>2198236
This isn't necessarily specific to being a child.

Also, it's a very contemporary situation.
In the past cases of what we would call pedophilia today were often followed or preceded by marriage.

>>2197705
Sexual urged can easily overule hatred.

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>>2198279
How would you know?
Are you pedophobe AND pedophile?

>>2196669
FUCK OFF NSA

>people replying seriously even if its ironic to a honeypot thread

>>2198289

Nothing illegal has been posted..

>>2198276
I didn't say it was specific to being a child, that's why my post began with adults.

What is specific to being a child is lacking the emotional maturity to handle being manipulated and used as a sex toy. (in b4 robots post >hurr women aren't mature either)

It's an awful thing to happen to an adult, and it is often life shattering to happen to a child.

>In the past cases of what we would call pedophilia today were often followed or preceded by marriage.
People did a lot of things in the past, what does that have to do with the present?

Certainly you aren't trying to say it would be a good thing for a young child with no conceptions of social or relationship norms to be married off, are you?

>>2198346

>Certainly you aren't trying to say it would be a good thing for a young child with no conceptions of social or relationship norms to be married off, are you?
Children have a very good conception of social and relationship norms, they just don't have the sexual development.
And yes being married is better than the scenario you described where she's being used.

>What is specific to being a child is lacking the emotional maturity
This romantic view is at the root of why pedophilia is no longer ok today.
Back then the woman didn't particularly need emotional maturity to be married. She was leaving the care of her family (and her father) and entering the care of the husband, who was then responsible for her well being.
A modern romantic relationship expects maturity from both sides, which is why it can't include children, who are immature.

But, i don't think you can say these very young brides were necessarily unhappy. There is nothing biological that determines that a relationship of this type involving a child is doomed to cause suffering.
It happens because of the way society works today.

>What if you find out you're attracted to kids?
the world keeps spinning, I keep breathing for at least a while.

>What would you do?
masturbate to loli doujins like I already do.

>What should you do?
you can't derive an "ought" from an "is". at best I can choose an optimal path for a goal that I arbitrarily choose based off of abstract preferences or experiences.

>Is it something inherently evil?
is anything inherently evil? where is it written in the fabric of the cosmos "murder is wrong"? where does it read on the quark of an atom "humans have inherent rights"?

hopefully you're asking those last two questions from within the general perspective of society, or else your school's philosophical education program is trash

>>2198165
check out native hawaiian culture, as well as some other oceanic cultures. people were trained sexually from childhood.

>>2198463
>Children have a very good conception of social and relationship norms
No, they don't. Full stop.

>And yes being married is better than the scenario you described where she's being used.
Correction: being married off IS being used.

>the rest of your post
Oh, you're one of those people. You know I really did try giving you the benefit of the doubt.

>>2198531
>no they don't
>yes it is
>ewww you're one of THOSE people

Nice arguments retard
kys

>>2198509
polynesian culture also happens to be full of insane psycho-sexual hang ups.

>>2198536
nowadays, because western culture wandered in and implemented moral codes and such that largely conflicted with their traditions. either way, psychological "issues" are largely subjective, relative concepts. s m d h why am I even explaining this kiddie concept, what happened to /his/? I thought we got through phil 101 months ago.

>>2197299
God is a pedo by modern standards--he knocked up Mary, who was 12/13 and married to Joseph, who would also be considered a pedo considering his advanced age.

>>2198549
what the fuck are you talking about?

>either way, psychological "issues" are largely subjective, relative concepts.
sure, but objectively most people in the society you live in have come to an agreement that they'll castrate you if you try to touch a child, so good luck using subjectivity as a defense for that.

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>>2196669
>Is it something inherently evil?
you're spookin me out

>>2198534
>appeal to tradition
>outright lies
Nice arguments retard
kys

(meanwhile my arguments have the full support of nearly all of society while you are in real actual danger of killing yourself after getting busted for cp)

>>2198585
Did you somehow get the idea that i'm defending pedophile relationships?
Even though i was careful to note that what worked before, won't necessarily work today because things changed for a reason?

Fucking projecting idiot.

>>2198575
what do you mean "what the fuck am I talking about"? I was clear in my language. do you have any specific questions?

>sure, but objectively most people in the society you live in have come to an agreement that they'll castrate you if you try to touch a child, so good luck using subjectivity as a defense for that.
how is this relevant in any way? what does this have to do with oceanic culture or psychological stability?

>>2198585
look up what a "bandwagon argument" is and educate yourself in logical reasoning some. fucking juvenile.

>>2197475
How the fuck did this shit even get published

>>2198631
Everything not forbidden is allowed

It's a wierd manga because it raises a few real concerns about pedophiles, and then proceeds to take loli fanservice up to 11 at the same time.

But the second part is in the epilogue when the girl is 16, that image was made mostly for humor.

>>2198604
Because you flatly are. Why are you trying to weasel around that now? Do you seriously think even a single person reading your posts would think that you aren't posting here for the explicit intention of justifying pedophilic relationships? The entire point of your posts was that "it worked before (no it didn't, children suffered for it back then too) with the implicit argument that we should 'return to the good ole days'.

Like seriously who do you think you're kidding?

As an aside it's hilarious that your response to me calling you a liar is to double down on the lies.

>>2198613
What the fuck are you talking about that insane Polynesian sexual ideas and myths are the result of outside influences and not their own heritage? Can you post something along that suggests that?

>>2198695
Accusing me of having a hidden agenda to promote pedophilia is retarded and not an argument.

Like if after someone said "well feudalism worked to protect farmers from raiders" you sperged out accusing the person of trying to bring back feudalism.

>>2198631
By a woman.

I dunno about the first 3 questions. I don't think so. But i am kind of experimenting on myself and the results so far are...fancy.

>>2197574
>>2197597
>>2197407
Who cares, the dude divorced his wife and married the girl he cheated on his wife with, who was barely legal while he was 40+, it's a joke.

>>2196669
Oooh, now this is a treat...

Recommended readings anybody?

>>2198691
She was 15 actually.

>>2198631
A number of reason:

a) It was written by a woman (a kind of messed up one according to her friends, but they don't advertise her mental state obviously) which meant it would be easier for the publisher to sell
b) The very thing which made the series controversial also made it well known, which lead to bigger sales
c) The publishers would role out the whole "freedom of expression" thing whenever a politician got mad about it*

*While this should go without saying, i bring it up because the publishers were incredibly hypocritical about it. Their magazine published many softcore comics, some involving teenage characters, which ended up getting cancelled and the writers sacked the instant politicians came knocking at their door. This one wasn't, despite being far more risqué than many of it's contemporaries, This was because the writer was married to, ironically, a politician, who protected her from any of the moral witch hunts going on.
Like I said, their all a bunch of hypocrites.

>>2198691
>>2198631
It was actually a really cute and extremely sweet manga. Precocious little loli Kokonoe was. Fortunately Aoki was a truly virtuous man.

>>2197597
They did make it very clear that the marks had to be the one to initiate talks about sex and hookups.

Otherwise what they did would count as "honey potting" and the pedo's in question would be able to take them to court over it, instead of the other way round.

>>2196669
>Is it something inherently evil?
You are talking about pedophilia, which is a sexual predisposition. Predispositions inherently can't be morally evaluated, since someone having them neither brought them into existence, nor can do anything about it.

Only actions and inactions can be judged.

>>2197643
Short answer, No.

If you are attracted to older women, but are socially inept like most of us here, you probably jack off to anime porn. Nothing wrong with that.

But it's foolish to think that that is enough to completely satisfy someone. If a man who mostly jacked it to pictures of anime characters was given the choice at this moment to either jack off or go fuck a 10/10 woman dressed like their favorite character, 99 times out of 100 theyre going to choose the latter.

This is not to say that people into 2D kids are necessarily pedos, but a pedo who jacks it to 2D kids is eventually going to have the urge to move onto something better if presented with the option. And on the internet, there is always the option if you know where to look.

>>2196669
Isn't there support groups to help people with paedophilia urges? I'd probably join one of those.

>>2197851
>only sexual orientation that has no way of working out ever

What about bestiality?

>>2198050
Here's an idea:

People are already in talks of sex bots being created and sold sometime within our lifetimes.

Could this serve as a possible healthy outlet for pedophiles? Or would the stigma against it still be too great?

>>2198991
What about xenosexuality i.e. sex with aliens?

>>2199014
Or necrophilia?

Pedophiles are sick bastards. No one sane would ever suggest removing a little girl's clothes and licking her tiny body all over, nibbling her neck and kissing her adorable little nipples. Only a heartless monster would think about her cute girlish mouth and tongue wrapped around a thick cock slick with her saliva, pumping in and out of her mouth until it erupts, the cum more than her little throat can swallow. The idea of thick viscous semen overflowing, dribbling down her chin over her flat chest, her tiny hands scooping it all up and watching her suck it off her fingertips is just horrible. You're all a bunch of sick perverts, thinking of spreading her smooth slender thighs, cock poised at the entrance to her pure, tight, virginal pussy, and thrusting in deep as a whimper escapes her lips which are slippery with cum, while her small body shudders from having her cherry taken in one quick stroke. I am disgusted at how you'd get even more excited as you lean over her, listening to her quickening breath, her girlish moans and gasps while you hasten your strokes, her sweet pants warm on your face and her flat chest, shiny with a sheen of fresh sweat, rising and falling rapidly to meet yours. It is truly nasty how you'd run your hands all over her tiny body while you violate her, feeling her nipples hardening against your tongue as you lick her chest, her neck and her armpits, savoring the scent of her skin and sweat while she trembles from the stimulation and as she reaches her climax, hearing her cry out softly as she has her first orgasm while that cock is buried impossibly deep inside her, pulsing violently as an intense amount of hot cum spurts forth and floods through her freshly-deflowered pussy for the first time, filling her womb only to spill out of her with a sickening squelch. And as you lie atop her flushed body, she murmurs breathlessly, "You came so much inside of me," then her fingers dig into your back as she feels your cock hardening inside again.

>>2199015
Sign an agreement with the person while still alive.
Ez

>>2198509
Thats pretty fucked up.

>>2198695
you're the one who brought "insane polynesian sexual ideas" up. I don't know what they are, it's just obvious that if they're having issues with sexual identity it's because they got a second conflicting culture plastered all over their pre-existing one. I don't know what these issues are, and as I already stated psychological "issues" are subjective and relative and are hardly real in the first place. you brought them up. if you bring something up and don't know what it is, that's your problem, not mine.

>>2198570
Only by western standards. In many parts of Asia, the age of consent is 14.

>>2199014
What about deisexuality?

You know, having boners for Jesus or God, whom I couldn't possible fuck.

>>2198509
Never heard of this, can you post some info about that?

>>2199031
You don't know the suffering of being a Deisexual atheist

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>>2199031
> you will never have sex with jesus...

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>>2198921
>precocious little loli Kokonoe was

>>2199034
http://polynesianresourcecenter.com/culture/item/polynesian-sexual-customs

"Sex training was direct and firsthand. Young individuals learned of coitus and sex play from instruction, direct observation, and practice. As they slept in the family house (hale noa), they observed their parents having coitus. In the Mangaian Islands, any person may copulate at any age, in the single room of a hut that contains from five to fifteen family members of all ages. A daughter may receive and make love with each of her varied nightly suitors in the same room. But under most conditions, all of this takes place without social notice: everyone seems to be looking in another direction.

The young observed dogs, pigs, and other animals mating, and these activities were discussed openly with parents or other adults. Parturition was not a secret event and was well attended by the young and by adults, all of whom observed traditions that included the washing and burying of the placenta and, usually, the disposing of the umbilical cord.

Young Polynesians acquired sex education in day-by-day exposure to precepts, practices, and attitudes concerning sex. Childish curiosity about sex was satisfied, with neither guilt nor shame instilled. With variations depending upon rank, region, and social circumstances, the young individual learned the lore of Tapu, social restraints and preferences, and attitudes toward both sex for procreation or love and sex for fun and pleasure. Each kind of sex was appreciated for its own value."

>>2199031
What if they visit you in your dreams?

>>2199036
What's happiness like? I know I'm probably asking an atheist drowning in pussy but just in case..

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>>2199044
>any person may copulate at any age, in the single room of a hut that contains from five to fifteen family members of all ages

>>2199046
Why use dreams if you can have sex with them with proper conscious fantasy?

Fantasy enables you to satisfy any in sexual urge that can be thought of. Doujinshi and the many weird, impossible kinks contained within there are a proof of that.

>>2199008
Being able to go that far in terms of sex bot technolog would mean that somebody could still try to kick up a fuss over "dem pedos" by arguing that AIs have feelings too, albeit programmabile ones. Granted that it would not illegale, but the stigma would probably remain.

>>2199024
This, gentlemen, is the perfect example of represse Paedophile trying very hard in passing off as "normal and moral." Thanks for the demonstration.

>>2199191
>he doesn't recognize the pasta
How long have you been here again?

lots of sameposting in this thread, why are pedophiles raiding /his/, this is not a /his/ topic

this thread should be banned or moved to /sci/ where they can be lectured on why they are mentally ill and why pedophilia is not a sexual orientation

>>2199224

& Humanities strikes again

>>2199224
>lots of sameposting in this thread
posters making less than 3 posts on average is "lots of sameposting"?
a single thread qualifies as a raid?

I mean I get you have a mindless hatred for anything to due with the topic, so why not just hide the thread and move on with your life?

>>2199224

you can thank & humanities

>>2199205
The fact that it is a pasta doesn't make my assertion any less true. Perhaps that poster is not repressed themselves, but the original One sure was.

>>2200742
OR perhaps they were making an incredibly obvious shit post that only the most autismal poster would bother analyzing to even the slightest degree.

>>2200833
No, we are actually using this post for a school project :).
So far you've all helped us a lot!

>>2199031
I made virgin mary porn. I have a hard on for goddesses too.

>>2201287
Give us a sample.

>>2199044
Why didn't Moana implement any of this?

>>2196669
I am a pedophile and I suppress it

>>2200833
>Post, while being a shitpost, portrays a real train of thought well.
>"Lo, u r autistic if u take it as example."

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>>2201699
>Shitposting=real
>being this autistic

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>>2201294
Sure,
We havent really gotten too far as of yet, but based on some comments about libido surpressing drugs and fapping to loli porn we could find some inspiration. These are in no way finished yet but we are going to make a small booklet where different opinions are expressed and visualised :)

Thanks again everyone!

>>2201746
I am not saying that the guy that posted it was for real. I said that the one that way, way, way back then posted it was.

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We also made this but arent quite sure in what context to use it, besides just mentioning that the catholic church is home to a lot of sex scandals

>>2201795
If you're going to go on about scandals, be sure to include Jewish circumcision rituals and stuff. Also Islam and their attitude towards the subject. Wouldn't want to be biased now would we? :^)

>Oh no! I'm a [sexual identity here], I wish I could change but I was born this way™.
Don't be dumb. Sexuality doesn't work that way. You can ease out of "pedophilia" just the same way you can drift out of any fetish.

>>2201845
How so?

>>2197290
Pretty sure therapists are legally barred from doing so because of Patient-Doctor Confidentiality, and if they did they would lose their license.

>>2201932
in theory that's true, but therapists can also be held responsible if you were to molest a child and the therapist could have prevented it by reporting you to the authorities, even if there was a vague hint that you were about to molest a child. because of this legal problem many therapists will turn you away if you come to them for help for pedophilia

>>2200742
>The fact that it is a pasta doesn't make my assertion any less true

Except it obviously does and the only thing you've revealed is how new you are to the site.

>>2201916
Its simple, the idea of a sexual identity, or any identity at all for that matter, is a meme, a "spook" if you will. People are wet clay. They can be shaped into literally anything with enough will and time.

If you think your mind is a slave to genetics, you're a slave in more ways than one.

>>2202272
>t.sociology student

The test was already carried out kid, and nature won. See David Reimer.

>>2196669
>What if you find out you're attracted to kids?
Denial
>What would you do?
Go into denial
>What should you do?
Pretend you are attracted to older people, find someone who is of age but looks younger
>Is it something inherently evil?
I don't know about evil but it is something that doesn't belong in a civilized society and goes against biology. Young parents are shit parents.

>>2202265
Okay, fine, it was meaningless shitposting that incidentially could be seen as a real deal.

I still do not get how was I supposed to know, considered that I have ever frequented only this board and it never came up.

>>2203480
Your newfaggotry will be forgiven as long so long as you have acknowledged being a newfag and promise to lurk more or face the penalty of shame by a thousand cucks.

I'm attracted to legal women and I'm still not getting laid, so I doubt there would be any difference besides the types of porn I consume.

>>2201784
And we're telling you the first person to come up with the pasta was also obviously shitposting from the start.

It's shitposting all the way down.

>>2203709
It's highly probable that you would eventually acquire or attempt to acquire real cp, which even if you never got caught would still add significant low level stress involved with living as a criminal.

>>2201960
I would figure that most therapists would turn you away become they have no experience providing therapy for pedophiles.

Although it's more likely they would refer you to someone with experience, rather than just turning you away outright. They would probably rather see you getting therapy in some manner than none at all.