What went wrong?

>>2175569

> bad trade routes
> No colonialism
> Squeezed by major nations all around

Source: EU4

>>2175569
>posting polish revisionist shit invented by some pollack nationalist in 19th century

>>2175579
What part of the image is false?

>>2175569
Boles are subhumans.

>>2175569
Lithuanians stopped being in charge.

>>2175569
Poles were involved.

>>2175665
they never were for any decent period of time famalam

>>2175569
>p*les
Doomed from the start, it was a wonder it took off in the first place.

>>2175569
Eventually they beat the Teutonic Order and didn't know what the fuck to do next so the decided to fuck with Russia for some reason.

Liberum veto

>>2175593
The part where a united entity ever existed. That shit was a loose alliance of petty kingdoms in the vein of the Unholy Unroman Unempire, except smaller and poorer.

>>2175569
Should've never happen in the first place

>>2175569
poles

>>2177202
So do you have any sources to back up your claim?

definitely poles

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>>2175569
Subhuman and treacherous "neighbours" + idiotic policy ("democracy" in times of kingdoms and empires) + imbecile rulers + being cucked by Vatican, which resulted in:
- 123 years of non-existence
- 50 years of communism
- countless wars and uprisings
- total destruction and theft of Polish culture, genocides of our elites, intelligentsia etc


Poland and the PLC were great reservoirs of culture and development throughout the entire 15th and 16th centuries. It was rich and (relatively) stable, and was probably one of if not the nicest place to live during those centuries in the middle of the last millennium.

Swedeshitters ruined it though, they looted and burnt almost every palace, library, archive and gallery in the PLC, they massacred, in some places, up to 3/4 of the population, and are the reason Poland in the last few centuries has gone from France-Tier to what it is now.


It was quite unique and showed that Poland was the most free country in Europe. And oh, it wasn't really szlachta that mostly fucked up the Commonwealth, they were actually the soul of the nation and cultural and knowledge propagators, but some magnate families like the Radziwiłł's.
Actually the protestants and calvinists like the Radziwiłł's wanted the Cossacks (a warrior class of refugees to the borderland (U+kraina) of mostly Ruthenian but also Polish, Lithuanian, Scottish, Dutch ethnicity as well) to rise up against the Catholic majority so the protestants from the north could overtake the country, then later the Radziwiłł's literally begged Sweden to invade and are partly responsible for causing the Deluge - all in the name of destroying Catholicism.

Prussians were supported by other protestants, mostly Britain through proxies like Sweden and Prussia. The protestants wanted to destroy Catholic Poland because it was the largest and most powerful country loyal to the Vatican. The Brits were the 4th partitioner of Poland through funding Prussia.

>>2177230
You want me to back my claim of a lack of existence of something?
How about you get some PRIMARY SOURCES (eg: not polish folklore and propaganda) about the existence of that thing instead?
Its how arguments are normally conducted.

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>>2177237
Prussian betrayal of Poland in 1655. A duchy created by Poland out of mercy to Teutons' last grand master. Rulers were Polish senators and were given a free rein how to rule their duchy. Later on, Poland propped it up several times, even refusing to kick the Hohenzolern dukes out when their other dominions are occupied by Sweden in the Thirty Years' War.

When Poland got invaded by Sweden, the duke switches sides and joins Sweden laying foundation to the Prussia.
>>2177246
You're really trying too hard here.

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>>2177246
You made the statement that it is simply made up. If that were the case, wouldn't there be various historians writing up articles on how it wasn't actually a unified state? For example the Holy Roman Empire? Fairly certain if it were to not exist then historians would point out why it should not be shown as a single state on the maps, no? Or atleast point out why it's better to not show it as a unified state?
Anyways, I'll bite the bait: this is a primary source from the document which was signed to form the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, i.e the Union of Lublin
>The Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania are one indivisible and uniform body and also one uniform Commonwealth, which grew and consolidated into one nation from two states and nations.
>One head, one ruler and one common king should perpetually rule over this joint nation.
> His Royal Majesty is not to hold any separate parliaments for the estates of
Poland and Lithuania from now on

>>2177249
>You're really trying too hard here.

By asking you to prove X, instead of me proving the lack of X?
Its how civilized discussion goes. You don't prove lack of something, this is an impossibility, the existence of it is proved instead.
Teapot, Mars, etc.

Also posting random battle victories does little for your case. Every country on the planet boasts a few good battles, it is so petty to base your pride in them.

>>2177271
see >>2177268
And shut your whore mouth already.

If you don't believe in original union document, then fuck off and read von Moltke.

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>>2177237
>>2177249

>>2177268
>>2177274
>fuck off whore mouth hurrr tard insult

Relax, slave.
Lithuania, Ruthenia, Prussia, Masovia, Samogitia, Kiev, Volhynia, Podlachia and Livonia were all autonomous under the "united" "polish" "crown".

>>2177283
((((you))))

>>2177283
I'm not the person who insulted you, so it seems like you have nothing to back up your claim. So you may as well accept that you were wrong and carry on.

>>2175579
>>2177202

Are you going to say that all PLC victories are done by this shitty, unified bunch of kingdoms (even if only one of them was actually kingdom rest were duchies). Or it's revisionist too?
And how this state survived few centuries before being torn apart?

6/10 bait

Sejm

>>2177616
>all the victories bro!

Every single small insignificant state can boast victories in battle, Serbians and Albanians also crop those retarded Wikipedia resumes to post on the website and WE WUZ about them.
Stop acting as if winning several battles is the height of human existence and thus prove everything was uniform and united, because how could you possibly win a fight it it wasn't?!

>>2177279

be glad that they stole them. The Germans would have burned them all.

>In the 1920s, in the aftermath of the Polish-Soviet War and the Treaty of Riga[8][11] the RSFSR's government returned around 50,000 items from the collection to Poland,[2] yet German soldiers deliberately destroyed these items during the Planned destruction of Warsaw in October 1944, after collapse of the Warsaw Uprising.[2][3][7] Only 1800 manuscripts and 30,000 printed materials from the original library survived the war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Załuski_Library

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>>2175569

>>2177237

couple things to note here. Poland despite being bordered by formidable enemies never sought any alliances of merit. (France does not count as an ally). If the Poles were to say ally with the Ukrainians to fight against Russia or the Bavarian's to fight the Germans things might have turned out differently.

>>2177719
>note that poles are unlikable, this is a very likable thing about them

>>2177249
>A duchy created by Poland out of mercy to Teutons' last grand master. Rulers were Polish senators and were given a free rein how to rule their duchy.
I know this is a pasta but these statements are just wrong

>>2177998
Its not pasta, its just Polish nationalism. I know its all memes, but you have to categorize it properly.

>>2177623
THIS

I cannot stress how fucked-up the Sejm was. It's a classic example of how a representative body of nobles can fuck over the nation as a whole. Every member could veto a proposal, thus stalling a vote for war, taxes, or even drafting a new law.

Interestingly enough, after the 1st Partition, Poland started to get its act together albeit too late. But they were too hard-headed to not play off their enemies. They should've sided with the Prussians and/or Austrians against Russia, but lacked the savvyness to do so.

>>2177998
>>2178022
It's all true though.

Unless proven otherwise.
>>2177715
Russia didn't control that much land in 18th century

>>2178037
That is not true.
Prussia was hell bent of getting Poland divided as it mean colossal gains for them.
IMO Poles tried ally with Prussia but all Prussia was:gibe clay for little to no support.
This was also gigantic blunder on Russians side as instead of weak buffer state that they actually rule they get militaristic state based on expansion.

>>2178121
Of course, the Poles had every reason to be pissed at Prussian demands for Danzig and Thorn in exchange for an anti-Russian alliance, but that's the nature of European politics.

>>2178102

The Duchy of Prussia in form of a secular and inheritable duchy with lutheran religion was created by Albert of Prussia in agreement with the Prussian estates. It wasn't an act of mercy of Poland but rather a good deal because Albert swore fealty to the Polish king, so in that regard the status quo ante bellum was restored without a resumption of hostilities.

The duchy wasn't ruled by Polish senators. It was a fief of the Polish crown and as such theoretically obliged to loyalty, but it was quasi-autonomous in most matters even before attaining full sovereignty in 1657.

>>2178338
Source?

>>2175569
The deluge when multiple powers invaded, killing much of its population and ending its status as a great power. Nations can withstand invasions and come back, but not many from what happened to the Commonwealth.

>>2178037

they should have used the roman senate system of appointing a one year term dictator in times of crisis. also the polish sejm was highly influenced by (((lenders))) and its panstvo landlord class was only concerned about maintaining its status.

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>>2178452
True.

It was inside job of protestants though. Religious freedom was a mistake.

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Geography.

Was destined to fail, no matter what.
Sad!

>>2178805
Bullshit.
The reason they got so fucked is because they spared their enemies, thinking honour exists in politics.

>>2178846

what enemies did they spare?

>>2178846
That's not the point - they could have conducted warfare and governance in a lot more tolerant and far-thinking way and it still would not have saved it.

Germany was bound to emerge as major power and Russia was bound to become regional power it later became. Small, backwards ''Great Power'', sitting on to vital lines of trade, having ports only in Baltic Sea - which is effectively a lake - could not have possibly become Austo-Hungarian Empire.

If it had expanded to Romania/Souther Ukraine and managed to anchor itself there, things might have gone differently.

>>2178856
Teutons, Muscovites, Cossacks.

They should've been all genocided, like they did. But poles are cucks and genocide is bad for them.

>>2178861
>backwards
Prussian von Moltke begs to differ.

He called Poland-Lithuania the most advanced state of Europe at this time.

>>2178864

calm down there bud. history has a habit of repeating itself. its a miracle itself that Poland exists today

>>2178415
any history of prussia, perhaps even on wikipedia
shouldn't be too hard to find in the age of interwebs

>>2179000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Teutonic_War_(1519%E2%80%9321)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Homage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Prussia

Indeed

>>2175569
nigs

>>2175569
not fully annexating Prussia
letting brandenburngian hohenzollerns on the throne of prussia
weak crown
no natural allies
weak economy based on agricultural exploitation of serfs

>>2175569
nigs

>>2180506
>weak economy
Source?
>exploitation of serfs
Less than in >H >R >E

>>2182173
weak economy, as in being a rural country with very small cities
which of course had its political effects as well - the magnates had all the power with no counterbalance

>>2175569
Sweden, Russia, T*rks, Prussia (so geographic location)
Corrupt nobility, everyone with VETO power
Bad system of succession that leads to instability.

>>2182207
Didn't only Lithuania have small cities though? I thought Pooland was well developed.

>>2175569

l*thuanians

>>2177249
At least Austria and Russia are being colonized by Islam today.

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>>2175569
Sweden swept in and killed off 1/3 of Poland while the PLC was at war with Russia and the Cossacks. They never recovered from that, thanks to the world's most woefully inept government.