How can a country be next to/intergrated into England for so

>>2133746
there is gonna be serious damage control for this one dude, prepare yourself

>>2133764
I know, I already know what's coming

>MUH IRA
>MUH MICHAEL COLLINS
>MUH BRIAN BORU

But name-dropping some semi-competent commanders does not a competent military make.

I just don't get how they managed to be so consistently shit, especially when exposed to somewhere like England.

>>2133746
Haven't they rarely ever had military though? Britain's occupied them for so long that they haven't had time to build up a military tradition, trained generals, armaments, etc.

>>2133775
Pre-Britian they weren't very good or notable in comparison to many places in a similar situation.

During Britain they contributed very few notable people or divisions; there really aren't any notable "irish" groups that fought for/alongside Britain (or anyone else) that are at all noteworthy.

When they rebelled, they did it very poorly regardless of any disadvantage they might have been.

They cling to people like Wolfe Tone, but he really wasn't much either.

>attacking the irish on /his/

BAD IDEA

In 20 minutes there'll be 50 1/64th irish-americans here who will cite shitty records and post meme leaders.

>>2133746
They resisted the Normans, something England failed to do.

>>2133790
I'm not even attacking, I respect the country for other things.

I think they have produced some incredible politicians who-all things considered-accomplished great things.

I think they are an excellent example of a cradle of western civilization throughout history, and believe they have produced some of Europe's finest poetry as well as generally being a bookish bunch of dudes while mainland Europe was getting all their shit pillaged.


I'm just curious as to why they were-for lack of better words-always shit at fighting.

They also sucked at uniting and never got closer to it by themselves than that one man died and it all collapsed.

>>2133746

Ireland is on the fringe of Europe, so it is the last place to hear of new military technologies

Also as an island it is very hard for neighbouring states to lend assistance or for Irish fighters to hop borders

As an Englishfag that's the best I can do

I do agree the Irish seemed to be oddly laid back and impotent

Some of the best soldiers in europe throughout history, hence why some european kingdoms created irish brigades and why a huge bulk of britains army was made up of irish soliders.

File: irishgulf.jpg (43KB, 398x459px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 398x459px

You're not looking in the right place for Irish Soldiers.

Pic related
>St. Patrick's Day, 2003 at Camp Eagle, Kuwait
>Members of the Royal Irish Regiment, 16th Air Assault Brigade, celebrate St.Patrick's Day at Camp Eagle, in the run-up to war against Iraq

The Irish in other Wars and Armies
http://www.illyria.com/irish/iowa.html

File: big man having a giggle.jpg (43KB, 600x406px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 600x406px

>>2133746
>Before England, they were nothing special until norse-shits of all people taught them to fight.
how do you figure? Becuase Ború adopted their axes?
what is your basis for thinking this

>their rebellions were all such a massive failure that it's laughable.
when are you placing the "After England" date as? the 13th century?
some were only skin-of-the-teeth failures and some still accomplished things beneficial to 'the cause' of the Irish People

>and even then they could have quite easily steamrolled them.
with massive costs in deploying the army after the ruinous toll of WWI, similar to how the Nine Years War nearly broke Elizabeth I

why is OP always a faggot?

File: irishbrigadeabsolution.jpg (38KB, 499x333px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 499x333px

>>2133817
Also search for "Wild Geese"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Wild_Geese

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Brigade_(U.S.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Brigade_(France)

>Mexico
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick%27s_Battalion

File: irishbrigadeenglishcivilwar.jpg (501KB, 1340x900px) Image search: [Google]

501KB, 1340x900px

>>2133829

File: irishbrigadefrencharmy.jpg (98KB, 736x535px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 736x535px

>>2133831

>>2133824
>>2133828
it begins

>>2133841
sorry I don't like /int/ tier threads by eternally arse pained orangemen on /his/

File: irishbrigadeconfederate.jpg (3MB, 2000x1359px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2000x1359px

>>2133833

7/8 of my great grandparents are Irish and Ireland is astonishingly historically irrelevant. It at times had a population dwarfed by England obviously but Scotland had its share of great military leaders, blew England the fuck out a few times (e.g. Bishops Wars) and took over their monarchy. Scotland's relation to England made such social mobility easier than in Ireland. Its contact with the Roman world was also more limited than in Scotland and obviously England/Wales. Lack of natural resources potential conquerors would have an eye on meant a strong martial tradition never developed. Rebelling against an unmatched naval power made it difficult to receive any assistance from the mainland and the armies the Irish did raise were just not up to par with experienced English troops.

>>2133850
Irish Federals fight Irish Confederates at Fredericksburg
https://youtu.be/ijAwhSwAoWM

>>2133845
>so i'll use /int/ memes myself

>>2133864
which post do you think was mine ye silly cunt

File: cúculainn.jpg (55KB, 400x625px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 400x625px

>>2133857
>strong martial tradition
define a strong martial tradition and explain how Ireland didn't have it before and for a long time after the Normans

a lack of the luxuries available to other peoples surely would work against what you're saying

>>2133857
> Lack of natural resources potential conquerors would have an eye on meant a strong martial tradition never developed.
Do you know what the Normans called Ireland? Terra guerre, land of war.

A soldier from Ulster burnt down the White House.

Basically every country in Europe from England to Spain to Sweden heaped immense amounts of praise on Gaelic fighters. How did you come to the conclusion that they were regarded as being poor? Literally every historical instance says the opposite of what you're claiming.

I've studied Irish military history for five years and literally the only person I can think of who said the Gaels were bad fighters is Voltaire, and he wasn't exactly an expert in military matters.

>>2133746
hey now, they were excellent cannon fodder during the american civil war

>>2133857
>Lack of natural resources potential conquerors would have an eye on meant a strong martial tradition never developed
And yet, whenever an historical writer like Gerald of Wales or Edmund Spenser writer wanted to smear the Irish, they'd claim that all they did was fight.

Ireland was actually one of the few countries in late medieval/early modern Europe where everyone was expected to be able to fight, though in the high medieval and earlier periods their warriors were always aristocratic. As late as the 18th century, foreign fencers like Donald McBane praised the Irish style of swordsmanship. What you've posted is nonsense.

>>2133746

The Irish won the American civil war desu.

>>2133746
Ireland produced plenty of decent fighters. Irish regiments were well regarded across Europe. It's just that they aren't generally remembered as Irish because they always fought in the armies of other countries.

>>2133798
No they didn't. The Normans took basically total control of the country. The only reason Ireland didn't end up completely anglicised by the 16th century was the black death wiping out all the Anglo-Norman settlements.

>>2134127

There were more foreign German fighters in the Union Army than Irish.>>2134127

>>2133746
They fought Germany and won, not like England.

>>2133879
Do you know how I call my dick ?


I hope you don't

File: 11034914_878293442213869_5874358485508050832_n.jpg (97KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 960x720px

>Ireland's greatest warriors

>>2136017
I'd ride your wan with the gun in fairness sham.

>>2134110
thats really cool to hear. any quotes about irish soldiers i can read?

Its a island warband country

But then we have japan... Are irish African?

The Irish pirates who raided Roman Britain were quite successful.

File: eire.jpg (547KB, 1040x1066px) Image search: [Google]

547KB, 1040x1066px

>>2136017
their awkward gangly appearance is not far off from reality

File: stefan.png (346KB, 727x653px) Image search: [Google]

346KB, 727x653px

>>2133841
NOT AN ARGUMENT

>>2133746
>How can a country be next to/intergrated into England for so long, but have historically terrible fighters?
You literally answered your own question. Britain is famous for NOT producing good fighters. Brits built their fame of killing spearchuckers and their "national fighters" (longbowmen and grenadiers) were fucking mediocre considering they were going roughly toe to toe with the French, but losing all centuries before and after they got outdated.

File: Trafalgar.jpg (134KB, 1400x897px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 1400x897px

>>2138042
> Brits built their fame of killing spearchuckers
If I were French I'd be kind of insulted by that, but then again God has blessed me my making me an Englishman, so all I have to do is sit back and laugh at all the butthurt Anglophobes.

All of you posting criticism of England's military record in this thread, just remember what language you're doing it in.

>>2138067

Yes, we're all thanking you for being shitty enough that the Mayflower sailed out.

>>2137825
cool pic. source pls?

>>2138067
in a germanic french

>>2133817
RIR is exclusively loyalist chavs from the north and clueless morons from the south who either couldn't join the IDF or want to shoot some brown people

>>2133746
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jadotville

>>2133746
They invented terrorism, that's gotta count for something.