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Rhodesia

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What really caused it to fail?
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Communism

Mugabe was a communist and that ideology propelled him to power
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>>21335
rhodesia was betrayed by the western world, never forget.
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>>21335
To be fair it was kind of doomed when even the Crown wasn't behind it anymore. They ended up stranded and in situations like that it really just becomes a matter of time before things break down.
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>>21335
Britain
>>
RIP
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>>21521
how do you feel that Israel was the only country who supported rhodesia and south africa under apartheid my dear /pol/shit friend?
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black people and communism

>this triggers the liberal
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Military service put too much sustained strain on the white population. They got sick of it. With Mozambique falling the writing was on the wall. South Africa wasn't particularly supportive either. So they cut a deal that worked quite well for them until Mugabe felt power slipping away.
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>>21600
Indeed it is
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...there's also something to be said for the fact that black Zimbabweans being much better educated / civilized than elsewhere in Africa ultimately working against the whites. The whites didn't appear so indispensable to the economy as they did and still do in South Africa.
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>>21812
>not him, but I don't get it, can we have an actual discussion without someone shouting
well that's a fact, that Israel was the only country who supported rhodesia
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>>21858
>as soon as the whites were all gone Zimbabwe become one of the poorest nations and chief importers of food in the world
>whites weren't indispensable

Sure they educated the blacks, but Mugabe had the blacks that associated with the whites killed off too.
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>>21882
but why do you have to cry about the /pol/ boogyman instead of just saying that

We're trying to have a constructive conversation about Rhodesia here
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>>21882
you could have just stated that instead of claiming /pol/ shit.
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>>21932
most countries commend it in public, and worked with it under the table
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>>21974
condemned**
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>>21933
>but why do you have to cry about the /pol/ boogyman
cuz this shit will end like
>HURR BUT JEWZ DID IT AND DESTROYED THOSE NATIONS
>>21932
weak b8
>>
>>21600
>Jew
>Working class
Just because it was invented by a jew, doesn't mean it is a Jewish ideology. All those Jews who rally under the banner of Communism are just retard who think Marx is their Messiah or something.
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>>22006
Why we're nearly all the Bolshevik leaders jews then?
>>
>>22054
I'd say it probably had a lot to do with the fact that jews were one of the minorities that suffered terribly under the old order in Russia (and elsewhere) while also being relatively well educated so it was only natural that an outsize number would favor revolutionary change
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>>21914
I've traveled around Africa (including SA and Zimbabwe) quite a bit. Black Zimbabweans are very visible in the South African economy, since they generally speak good English and are responsible and can manage things, and don't have any expectation of welfare.

Even now in Zimbabwe stuff run by blacks seems mostly competently/professionally run, while in South Africa it's pretty much impossible to find anything managed by blacks (there's *always* a white/indian/asian in charge, or nothing gets done at all). I can understand why Mugabe thought he could do away with the whites since there was a competent black managerial class; the problem of course is that those folks either looted what was handed to them (if they were insiders), or left the country when the economy took a bad turn (if they weren't insiders).
>>
>>22100
>trying to shame us into leaving

we're here to stay you filthy leftist.
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>>21335
Islamic gommunism :DDDD

But seriously, IIRC only ~5-10% of the population was white - and a significant portion of those whites were recent immigrants from the UK. And as recent immigrants, there wasn't as much of a diehard fight-or-die sentiment

Also these
>>21706
>>21766
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>>22279
Good point. The Afrikaners weren't going anywhere, so they had no choice but to fight at least for their survival. Anglo-Zimbabweans (and Anglo-South Africans) could always go back to Britain if things went really tits-up.
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>>22390
>The Afrikaners weren't going anywhere, so they had no choice but to fight at least for their survival. Anglo-Zimbabweans (and Anglo-South Africans) could always go back to Britain if things went really tits-up.

Pretty much. Anglo-South Africans (both Jews and non-Jews) were also heavily over-represented in the anti-Apartheid movement.

People disparage the Domino Theory, but southern Africa is a pretty good example of it working (i.e. the collapse of Portuguese rule in Angola/Mozambique increasing support for anti-government rebels in Rhodesia and South Africa)
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>>22472
"Domino theory" of majority rule, sure. But supporting minority-rule white governments actually helped communism (the only southern African countries that got communist governments got them as part of a liberation war)
>>
https://youtu.be/tBibWSh8L8Q
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>>23580
>jewish communists
god, /pol/ have always been a thing even before of 4chan's creation
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>>21335

Lack of western support.

Communist funded guerrillas.
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Loss of allies. Inevitable loss of SA.


On the bright side, Rhodesia and post colonial Africa is all the justification you need to be racist.
>>21577
This aswell.
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>>21997
secular western jews arguably did
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>>23972
>T-55
>AKs
these were captured?
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>>24021
nein, it was just western's fault for not helping them
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>>24027
T-55s were captured by South Africa in an arms shipment, rebuilt and upgraded then sent to Rhodesia. Would have partaken in Operation Quartz had high staff not pussied out.

Underfolder AKMs were go-to firearms for tank crews. Along with being a well regarded firearm in Rhodesia's fighting forces along with the FAL.
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>>24055
Why was the West under any compunction to help the white Rhodesians.
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>>24027
Not him, but that could very well be.

Mugabe was backed by the Soviets
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>>21335
Having a caped bird headed man taking a shit on their seal.
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>>24092
because they were gettin fucked by commies
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>>24092
Because America was having its whole spiel with the blacks, along the Uk and thatcher being the keks they are.
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>>24021
i would argue it was more Christians m8. They decided that they needed to educate and help blacks. Jews in Rhodesia and south Africa were largely indifferent to apartheid once they were made equal citizens after world war2. Also without Israel's help south africa would never have been able to weather the sanctions put on them.
>>24138
>>24055
They weren't due to krauts sperging out and making nationalism a bad thing.
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>>24183
no, because the US was not giving a fuck about rhodesians LOL
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>>24121
When I was at Great Zimbabwe I was the only tourist there, and the power was out inside the museum. Not sure if the Zimbabwe Bird they had there was a replica, but if it wasn't it would have been totally easy to simply walk out with it. Probably worth a metric fortune.
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Pray 4 /k/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVCzYLxBK74
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>>22236
Krauts
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>>24373
>Gerkeks literally too dumb to wait for the USSR to kick off ww2 instead

You're not wrong
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>>24373
they are pretty persevertant
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>>21997
>cuz this shit will end like
You brought up /pol/ and are pulling claims out of your ass
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>>24410
>>24411
I hate krauts with every bone in my body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY
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Once no go zones were declared and the government admitted that it couldnt protect rural blacks Rhodesia's days were numbers.
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>>21766
>the white army's morale
Rhodesia's army was two thirds black you div, stop spouting /pol/ memes
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>>21335
7% of the population trying to maintain minority rule over the other 93% is damn near always going to be a losing battle. The Nation's frankly laughable international legitimacy meant they couldn't relay on outside help to prop them up, and the other side DID have plenty of outside help. They were living on borrowed time. On top of that the war had basically ruined the country and 15 years of violent sectarian violence wasn't exactly conducive to a peaceable transition.
There were black leaders who could have handled the transition peacefully, but after 15 years of viscous civil war you don't elect one of those guys, you elect a war hero. And that's how you get a Mugabe instead of a Mandela.
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>>24731
Nkomo or Sithole wouldn't have been as much of a massive fuckup as Mugabe was.

Had there been no war, Rhodesia would however ended up much better then SA currently is.
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>>24731
>Mugabe instead of Mandela

Yeah, Mandela was a real saint. Bombing train stations, burning people alive. What a nice guy, a true black Ghandi
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>>24092
Kith and kin Tyrone
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>>24731
Daily reminder that the Rhodesian army and police were almost 80% black
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>>24731
Mugabe did very well by the whites for 20 years. And IMO there was nothing inevitable about his eventually taking up the banner of farm appropriation; he was really just responding to events (spontaneous takeovers) that threatened his legitimacy is the eyes of the mass of black Zimbabweans.

To keep a lid on things, some way needed to be found to employ more blacks in middle class jobs. Not sure what the prospects were for Zimbabwean manufacturing in the best case way: not having a coastline really would have put a damper on that.
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>>25151
They were left pretty much alone. Much the same as in South Africa today.
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>>24829
>burning people alive
>This is what Rhodesia-boos actually believe
Yes he wasn't Jesus fucking Christ but he was better than Mugabe.
>>24932
Only Right at the very end of the Bush war did they start conscripting blacks in large numbers. And that really means fuck all, even the fucking CSA had black regiments at the end when shit got desperate enough and the Nazis had Russian troops.
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>>25151
>>25393
No really, read a book nigga, the hyperinflation and the Farm Seizures only happened well after the Civil war ended in the late 90s.
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>>25393
Even today in Zimbabwe, most of the people you'll see driving around in their own cars are white. In South Africa whites continue to utterly dominate the economy.

I'm not saying the government doesn't favour blacks, but the actual affect of their favouritism hasn't prevented whites from remaining at the top of the economy.
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>>25503
Ditto people living in nice suburbs, eating in nice restaurants, etc. Overwhelmingly white. Zimbabwe is still a great place to live as a white if you have a source of income.
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>>25190
lefty /pol/ or otherwise, you know you're wrong. we don't even need to discuss this any further
opinions whether Mugabe's plentiful grabs were justified is another topic of discussion
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>>25500
this desu, I wrote my thesis about the turnaround in 2000 where everything went to even bigger shit
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>>25777
Nice trips
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>>25672
>t. Rhodieboo
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>>25801
maybe i should be clearer, 2000 was a point where it became worse. Beforehand lots of promises were made by Mugabe, but the occupations in itself didn't happen on the same scale as post2000
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>>25544

Ahahahahaha. No. Not at all. If you're white and have money and sense, you use that money to leave the country. Zimbabwe is an absolute shithole right now, even if you're wealthy.

Source: I am white and was born in Zimbabwe.
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>>25887
You're the only one meming my meme man
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>>21335
OP if you haven't already I strongly suggest you read this book. It does display a bit of bias (as do all sources), but it is very minimal and is mostly limited to the politics in Rhodesia. Other than that so much of what he says is correct. Something that really stand out is how much he loves Great Britain, despite how it continually deceives him politically. He was a man of bygone era, raised with original British attitudes and his Britain died after WW2.

I am South African and so much of this book too close to home. The manner in which we were turned upon, and undermined by people with no stake in either of countries resounds deeply and seeing people even today, calling Rhodesia and all colonialists evil frustrates me to no end.
Im not even /pol/ but the seeing sheltered people thinking they know whats best for millions of Africans (both black and white) is almost enough to bring out tears of frustration.

The case of Rohdesia is even more frustrating as they took every step to help sustainable development of the locals, unlike SA's apartheid. Independent Colonialism was the best thing to ever happen on the African continent and it was destroyed by people so they could feel a fake sense of morality.
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>>26017
>It does display a bit of bias
>a bit
Hey if you want to read about the Nazis I suggest you read this book, it does display a bit of bias (as do all sources) ....
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>>26017
Hahahahah

You're joking right?
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>>26107
have you even read the book?
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>>26139
joking about what? If you have read the book you will see all his claims are pretty fucking solid and backed up by physical evidence (minutes, interviews , letters etc. )
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>>26017
>The case of Rohdesia is even more frustrating as they took every step to help sustainable development of the locals
> Independent Colonialism was the best thing to ever happen on the African continent
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>>26219
nigga I fucking live here. This is the truth whether you like it or not
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>>26295
> Independent Colonialism was the best thing to ever happen on the African continent
>t. white South African

>nigga I fucking live here.
>Lives in South Africa, which is in fact a completely different country to Zimbabwe
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>>25672
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy that whites continue to do well in Africa. But to say they're downtrodden (or on the verge of genocide) is ridiculous. Things have carried on pretty much as they always have.
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>>26354
the only reason a black person is even educated enough to condemn colonialism is due to the colonists establishing education in their country.

Also I have been to Zimbabwe multiple times (its an A grade shithole) and I know many people born there and who were forced to flee.
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>>25955
The kind of lifestyle you can live in Africa on a comparably modest income is WILDLY better than if you lived in a developed country. That's the whole reason so many whites immigrated to southern africa in the 20th century and it remains the case. The only difference between pre- and post-majority rule is that now you need to make your way in the private sector (which isn't too onerous when most blacks are still oogabooga tier)
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>>26505
The Africans were kings and queens until the evil white man showed up, you bigot
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>>26017
>I'm a white South African
>There's not a chance that I may have my own bias at all
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>>26536

Yeah like ZANU kicking down your door and confiscating your farm.
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>>26567
jesus, it seems /his/ is already filled with sheltered kids claiming to know howthe world works.
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>>26663
We have to give it some time. Hopefully it'll work out.
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>>26017
Blacks in Rhodesia as in Apartheid South Africa were actively prevented from competing with whites: whites could work in jobs that paid well, blacks only in jobs that paid next to nothing. Colonialism did bring some level of modernity, but to say it wasn't set up to serve the interests of the white elite is plain ignorant.

If colonialism was set up in such a way that all people were equal before the law, and with equal access to education, I'd say it was defensible. But this was far from the case. The whites simply wanted the blacks for cheap labour; they didn't give a fuck about building them up (and in fact when out of their way to prevent it).
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>>26450
>But to say they're downtrodden (or on the verge of genocide) is ridiculous.

No, it's not. They come on to our farms and kill us and never face justice. You have policies that are pushing more and more of us out of jobs to replace us with unqualified blacks. Zuma literally rallies his supporters by saying umshini wami.
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>>25311
Necklacing m8

>>26219
The qualifications for the vote were based on education. Education had slowly been spreading to the black population. If the qualified vote had been in place Rhodesia would have had majority rule (though not proportionate to the population) by the 1990s.
>B-B-But why not just give everyone the vote straight away
Exhibit a) what happened to Zimbabwe after majority rule, exhibit b) you have ten seconds to name a single country that transitioned from a dictatorship to majority rule without fucking up
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>>26720
Just explain one simple fact, if apartheid SA was so bad for blacks, why did so many blacks from neighboring black-run states try to illegally immigrate to SA?

>If colonialism was set up in such a way that all people were equal before the law, and with equal access to education

Your bullshit standards are the product of comfort and wealth that can abstract you away from reality. What the Boers did is no different to what any other conquering force did. When you take over a place, or when you rule over another race, you generally do not afford them the same status and "rights" as your own group. The fact you think this is some sort of morally abhorrent, sui generis thing in the case of SA/Rhodesia is telling.

Typical sheltered libtard with no understanding of macrohistory.
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>>26720
It doesn't have to be equal to be mutual beneficial, and if something is equal then that doesn't mean that it's automatically beneficial either.

>some level of moernity
Some?!?! Are you memeing me or just genuinely willingly ignorant?
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>>26648
Whites were gifted almost all the good farm-land in these countries by virtue of their skin colour. I'm not denying they're the better managers of it, but they'd have to be kidding themselves if they didn't think the blacks would want it back and with good cause.

In the case of Zimbabwe, the deal after white rule ended was understood to be that white farmers wouldn't be compelled to give up land, but that the government would buy some land to give to blacks (terrible economic policy, but from a political POV returning land to black ownership was irresistible). But lack of money made that process so slow (Mugabe wanted Britain to pay, which Britain arguably agreed to do at one point before later reneging) that farm occupations started happening spontaneously. Then Mugabe was put in the position of choosing between the poor the black occupiers and white landowners, and again the politics were irresistible (if he'd backed the whites someone would have probably overthrown Mugabe).
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>>26892
>but they'd have to be kidding themselves if they didn't think the blacks would want it back and with good cause.

And why don't Vietnamese give Vietnam back to the Cham? Why don't Taiwanese give Taiwan back to the Austronesians? Why don't Japanese give Japan back to to the Ainu, or Turks Western Asia Minor to the Greeks?

Why does this idea of some sort of cosmic, karmic revenge for conquest and settlement only apply to whites?
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>>26807
Lol what the fuck is "macrohistory" mate
What are you even talking about
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>>26807
I'm not dismissing the white view of things, but nor am I dismissing the black. The blacks were disadvantaged in every way in countries in which they were the majority of the population. Even if in the end blacks were materially better off under white rule, nobody wants to be a second class citizen in their own country. That was simply unsustainable.
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>>26892
>the politics were irresistible
Which is of course a perfect excuse and makes it all reasonable

>>26916
Reeeeeeeee, homo sapiens out, Europe is for the Cro-Magnon

Bit weird that people forget that the Bantu-speaking current inhabitants of South Africa only got there a few hundred years before the whites did
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>>26969
>>26996
>Bit weird that people forget that the Bantu-speaking current inhabitants of South Africa only got there a few hundred years before the whites did

My understanding was they only reached the cape AFTER whites had settled it.
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>>26969
Not him but
Macrohistory -
Noun. (countable and uncountable, plural macrohistories). A form of large-scale history dealing with large groups of cultures over very long time periods.

Learn how to use a search engine.
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>>26994
>Even if in the end blacks were materially better off under white rule, nobody wants to be a second class citizen in their own country. That was simply unsustainable.

I agree with you that racial nationalism trumps anything else, that's biology. I disagree with the emotionally charged way apartheid and more broadly colonialism is described. Liberals have old-testament tier binary morality that doesn't allow for any sort of nuance.
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>>26808
>It doesn't have to be equal to be mutual beneficial, and if something is equal then that doesn't mean that it's automatically beneficial either.

Again, I'm not disagreeing. But the maintenance of a system of systematic racial inequality in the 20th (and into the 21st) century just wasn't going to happen. For a long time white Rhodesians and South Africans thought the good times would last forever, so didn't lay the proper groundwork for majority rule. I'd argue, all things considering, they still made out rather well in the end. But it would have been better for everyone if they'd taken a longer view earlier on.
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>>27029
I'm doing a PhD in history and literally nobody uses the term "macrohistory" because it's a stupid term that doesn't distinguish anything (all history is macro by default)
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>>27060
>PhD in History

Man, standards have really dropped. I bet you can't even speak or read a second language.
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>>26994
>That was simply unsustainable
You're acting as though Rhodesia was the same in 1979 as it was in 1965, or 1945. My father graduated from Rhodesia's best university and the graduation class was mostly white, though a substantial minority of blacks. And because the vote was based on education it would have led to majority rule. See >>26766 The main obstacle to the vote being self-righted were Zanu and Zapu terrorists intimidating those who did.


>>27013
Maybe the Cape but I don't know. I had read that it was 13th-17th century that Bantu-speaking people spread in what is now most of Zimbabwe, South Africa and Botswana.
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>>27060
>I'm doing a PhD in history
Yeah, and my dad works at Nintendo and I have a girlfriend in Canada
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>>27099
I agree! (some schools still require it depending on your subject matter) I know what macro attached to history means - I was asking what this person was talking about because nobody ever fucking uses that term (although microhistory and metahistory are things)
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>>26916
Because the blacks were numerous and determined enough to take it back, something the Ainu, Native Americans, Taiwanese Natives, etc. aren't. (the Cambodians for their part tried and failed spectacularly).

If white Africans wanted to prevent this from happening they should have genocided the blacks in the 19th century when they could have gotten away with it. But of course that would have meant actually doing the hard, manual, poorly-paid work of building these countries themselves, when they much preferred being the overseers. But how many whites would have immigrated to Rhodesia to do the hard yoemans work of e.g. frontier North American settlers? Probably none at all: they went there for the good live, and lived it while it lasted.
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>>27181
>Because the blacks were numerous and determined enough to take it back, something the Ainu, Native Americans, Taiwanese Natives, etc. aren't. (the Cambodians for their part tried and failed spectacularly).

Right, so the real operative factor here is success or failure in exterminating your enemies. I agree.
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>>26678
People are screaming about /pol/ but I'd say the lefties are making more of an organized attempt at establishing a beachhead on this board.
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>>27273
/pol/ack here, I actually like hearing multiple view points on these topics. The whole 'Fuck off /pol/' and 'Go back to reddit' shit is kind of obnoxious though.
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>>27197
Again, the African whites WANTED as many blacks as possible so that they could exploit their labour as cheaply as possible. The whole economic and social system was premised on racial inequality.

To take one of endless examples, Apartheid South Africa welcomed so many black workers from other African countries because it kept wages at rock-bottom, boosting profits for white owners/managers and undermining the bargaining power of South African black workers.

Similarly, instead of encouraging blacks to urbanize and become educated (which would have decreased black birth rates), they wanted exactly the opposite: to keep them stupid and down on the farm.
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>>27273
I'm not even remotely left-wing. Only on /pol/story is arguing against apartheid considered radical leftism.
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>>27344
This right here.
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>>27378
I'm pretty sure the dude we were referencing was somehow maintaining that Mugabe was good for white zimbabweans. Regardless of politics/morality, that's a retarded stance.
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>>27344
Agreed. Although "go back to reddit/lgbt" is pretty common on /pol/ too.
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>>27444
They could have had their land confiscated straight-away and forced out of the country. Considering they were on the losing side of the civil war, Mugabe treated the whites quite benignly until the farm occupation got going (something he didn't start).
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>>27444
He wasn't you moron, he only said that it only started to get REALLY bad in the lat 90s, early 2000s, which is objectively true because that's when the farm seizures started
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>>27478
p.s. Mugabe is a really interesting case study in the banality of evil. I've read a few biographies, and it's easy to understand how he went down the road he did, probably even knowing it would be his country's ruin.
>>
Also re: Mugabe, everyone in the west is obsessed with his treatment of a few thousand white farmers, but absolutely nobody gave a fuck when he had the Zimbabwean army pillaging its way across Congo killing untold numbers of Congolese for reasons nobody really understood.
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>>27574
Or the slaughter of 30,000+ Matabele in the early 80s
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>>27682
Forgot that one too.

Doesn't excuse how he's treated the white minority, but he's been FAR FAR FAR more vicious with blacks, and yet nobody spoken a word against him until he dared mess with the whites...
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>>21562
A lot of people on /pol/ have no problem with the Jews having their own state.
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>>27736
Alternatively: nobody mentions it because for some reason people in the West thinks that it is impossible for blacks to be racist against blacks and the only racism is between blacks and whites
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>>26017
How telling the responses to this insightful post are. We cannot let the left dominate /his/.
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>>27976
It's a post defending the memoir of the former Rhodesian leader. There's fuck all insight there
>>
>>28025
>disagrees with my ideological opinions
>therefore its not insightful or worth of actual discussion
>still dangerous enough to demand one line slander in response
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyJFRTJgPbU
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>>28088
What, exactly, is supposed to be insightful about that post?
>>
>>28169
Relative to you he has read about the topic, lives in the region, lives in the most similar nation possible, provides opinions that goes against the disingenuously established status quo, provides a source of suggested reading, personal emotional insight, factual insight.
Just agree it is insightful.
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>>22390
>The Afrikaners
Most of the old guard white Zims were and are Anglos. Afrikaners came later.
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>>25311
>Only Right at the very end of the Bush war did they start conscripting blacks in large numbers
Yes, before that they were volunteers and still made up the majority of forces.
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>>27347
>instead of encouraging blacks to urbanize and become educated
The rate of educated blacks WAS increasing.
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>>28148
>some people unironically believe this is the truth
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>>28221
>>28221
He's read a biography of the former Rhodesian leader. I study white supremacy. Your /pol/ is showing, please tell me, what is the "disingenuously established status quo"?
>>
Commencing dump of some photographs of Rhodesia from face book pages.

>I'm second-gen Irish, grandfather was in RAF (Rhodesian Air Force) in the 70s. He's in all the old Rhodesian Facebook groups.
>>
>>30429
>>
>>30455
>>
>>30466
>>
>>30473
>>
>>30489
>>
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>>30498
>>
>>30507
>inb4/pol/
>>
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>>30531
>>
Post short shorts, fag
>>
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>>30542
>>
>>30549
short skirts do?
>>
>>30564
>>
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>>30574
>>
>>30585
>>
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>>30564
Yes. Yes they do.

Also a real lack of FALs here.
>>
>>30596
>>
>>30609
>>
>>30626
>tfw this will never be your family
>>
>>30585
>i dont even know this bitch
>>
>>30630
oh look
>>
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>>30640
>>
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>>30657
>>
>>30630
hi /pol/
>>
>>30668
>>
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>>30677
>>
>>30689
>>
>>30695
>>
>>30703
these next two are great
1/2
>>
>>30715
2/2

>when you see it
>>
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>>30726
>>
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>>30675

Hi leddit
>>
Any recs for books on the Rhodesian military?

Pic related, RAR soldiers
>>
>>21335
>this whole thread
Welp, guess people were right when they said this board would be a colossal failure between /int/ and /pol/.
>>
>>30738
>>
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>>30757
>>
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>>30777
>>
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>>30789
>>
>>30780
>disagreeing with /pol/ makes you a liberal retard
>>
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>>30799
>>
>>30429
>RAF (Rhodesian Air Force)
it's RhAF, Paddy
>>
>>30816
>Based Bulawayo National School (1/2)
>>
>>30574
Anglo genetics really showing here
>>
>>26766
Japan
>>
>>30833
>Based Bulawayo National School (2/2)

>>30826
I actually wondered how they showed the difference. Thanks. I'm not a paddy, I live in the south but attended a private Protestant school and am Protestant. We live here because we have a farm here, not because we like the culture.
>>
>>21335
>What really caused it to fail?
Economics and war. Look into the decline of Rhodesian autarky.
>>
>>30885
>>
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>>30904
>>
>>30950
>>
>>30962
>>
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>>30977
>>
>>30885
That's a pretty dark looking girl on the left there. Indian? There's also what looks like a jungle asian or maybe mixed race girl sitting on the right
>>
>>30991
>>
>>30548
Fashionable and practical desu
>>
>>30876
Is that an insult or a complement?
>>
>>31019
Mixed girl is probably an Anglo-Indian
dark girl is probably a full-blooded Dravidian or something. God knows how she ended up in Bulawayo. That's the British Empire for you.

>>31019
>>
>>31059

meant for>>30994
>>
>>31071
>>
>>21335
black people that wanted more and more
>now what?
>let's see how it turned out
>africa need whites
>>
>>31090
>>
>>31106
might post more later if there is still a thread. tired now.
>>
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>>26354
You know most of the niggers in South Africa that are murdering the whites are not actually from anywhere near South Africa they are as much invaders as the original colonists.
>>
>>21600
It is, except that jew communists are willing to work for and with the community, unlike other communists. See the kibbutz.
>>
>>30741
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnu2lMunSPY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7mQ7N8e7ac
>>
>>30833
Were the whites just temping the blacks to drive them out for lulz?
>>
>>27976
The left or the right should not dominate /his/

This should not be another /pol/. but it should not be a /leftypol/ either.

It should be about history. Fuck off to /pol/ and Fuck off to Reddit shit needs to stop.
>>
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>>27509
They are asking for white farmers to return because the blacks cannot cope, I doubt any will return though as most are dead or traumatised.

>>27574
None of that stuff Is ever mentioned in schools or the media so nobody knows about it
>>
>>30675
It is pretty funny that when you peel away the pages of history there is always a jew hiding somewhere within.
I hate looking like a stormer but its hard to deny their influence.
>>
>>30754
>people debating history with differing ideas and viewpoints
>see!!! we told you it would be a failure! Fucking /pol/ and /int/ !!!!1!!!1!
>>
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Nationalism; the majority of black "Rhodesians" didn't feel Rhodesian
>>
Awwww, no representation of the Selous Scouts?
>>
>>31577
Too bad there's no such thing as Zimbabwean either. Of course, nobody would allow for the split of Mashonaland and Matebeleland + a couple dozen smaller tribes, because nation states aren't allowed.
>>
>>25708
He's right though. Shit didn't hit the fan till about the mid-90's/00's when the land reforms were implemented.
>>
>>32347
Unfortunate a lot of people here seem to have learned all their history from /pol/ threads.
>>
>>21562
I think that was Portugal and South Africa, Israel had nothing to do with this conflict
>>
>>32493
Israel was a backer of Apartheid SA. Dunno about Rhodesia.
>>
>>32347
>>32443
Zimbabwe's gdp was much lower before the land reforms even started. Farm production peaked in 1982. Ndebele were slaughtered by the tens of thousands just a few years after Mugabe came to power. It is not "le /pol/ XDDDDDDDD" to point out the fact that Zimbabwe was taking strides to becoming a shit head long before the land reforms
>>
>>32443
stop going on about your /pol/ boogyman

this has been a fine thread, apart from retards like you
>>
>>31577
Excellent answer. For a state to last you need to build a common identity everyone adheres to. That's the most powerful strength of the United States and was the most powerful strength of the Roman empire.
>>
Even if segregation wasn't as strong a factor as it was in South Africa, inequality, both social and economic just isn't going to do you any favors. That plus political pressure, embargoes, and the pressure at home of fighting a prolonged counter insurgency
>>
>That decline from 1980-1990
JUST
>>
>>33104
>Botswana
What's happening there? Why they are so high?
>>
>>33271
Low corruption and good governance.
>>
>>33104
SA and Zambia show the same decline. I suspect it's mostly demographic.
>>
>>32532
Ok that's right but it were those land reforms which put in the final nail into the white communities coffin.
>>
>>33324
Also resources and a relatively small population
>>
>>33419
Zimbabwe is a case example that resources aren't worth shit without governance. Botswana has far less resources than Zimbabwe.
>>
>>33104
What's happening with South Africa that early? White flight or smth?
>>
>>33271
It's very homogeneous for an African nation at least therefore >>33324
>>
>>33475
Yeah I didn't refute the points of the post I quoted. Still resources and/or manufacturing of said resources is a vital key to economical success.
I mean what else does Botswana has to offer except tourism?
>>
>>33271
Good government, low population density, no major ethnic discord, not getting involved in other countries problems.
>>
>>33490
Yes and when your dead you can't contribute to gdp
Or if your assets have been siezed by niggers who don't know what to do with them and just shit the place up.
>>
>>33490
Considering it's % of global average GDP, they could be losing ground in that graph simply by standing still.

But again, I'd guess it was rapid population growth in that era among the black population (which has since levelled off).
>>
>>33708
>what else does Botswana has to offer except tourism?
Isn't Botswana the country that survives solely on trading diamonds?
>>
>>33708
Diamonds.
>>
>>33715
>>33764
More proof that the democratic nation state is the best form of government
>>
>>33756
>>33764
I was counting them under resources
>>
>>33625
yep 80% ethnic tswana

also unlike most of africa they had a based first president who said no to african socialism
>>
>>21492
This and the lack of support from the western world for it being a white dominated government. It was simply a matter of time for Rhodesia. I really think Rhodesia should have been given a chance. It could have easily been a blossoming well educated state in Africa.
>>
>>21335
To successfully colonize someone else's homeland, you must kill most of the Native inhabitants first.
>>
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>>33819
Heavy into mining (diamonds and copper), but why wouldn't they be given large area and low population. The fact that agriculture is such a small part of GDP would indicate it's a developed-country (or as developed as it's going to get considering where it is).
>>
>>33869
If not Rhodesia then Zimbabwe-Rhodesia at the very least. Poor old bishop Muzorewa, I bet he was close to losing his faith after Lancaster House.
>>
Is anyone going to actually post what they feel was the reason for Rhodesia failing with factual support? This could actually be an incredibly interesting discussion and debate if yinz would follow the board rules instead of whatever all this is.
>>
>>30626
Top-left and top-right are cutecute cute cute CUTE!

I also want the teacher to sit on my face and punch my dick
>>
>>30833
>the only one not smiling is the negress

top kek desu lads
>>
>>26996
Bit weird that people forget the Bantu took part in the genocide of the true native South African tribes
>>
>>34522
Bantu had the good sense to drive the San out or wipe them out. Stupid white people.
>>
>>34522
Its weird how people love to forget the crimes of everyone that isn't white
>>
baka
desu
senpai
>>
>>34579
Exactly. I think if we are going to hold white people accountable for their ancestors crimes, why not hold other races accountable?
There's a reason African pygmies practically don't exist anymore.
There's also a reason the polynesian inhabitants of Indonesia are missing.
Or the complete lack of indo-europeans in Western China.

People just give other races free passes because white people happened to be more important the last 800 years.
>>
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>>21335
wow.

>pic related is my country's coat of arms embedded in our flag
the similarity is just..
>>
>>34263
Rhodesia wasn't able to fight against the post-colonial movements that swept Africa post world war 2. There's no reason to think that it would be able to, is there? People have been shitting up the thread with nostalgia for an explicitly white supremacist state, I just don't think you're capable of nuanced discussion on a topic like this on 4Chan.
>>
>>35009
Nigeria confirmed white
>>
>>35036
The fact you say no one should approve of a White supremacist state shows how you really aren't the type of person who belongs here. 4chan has a very large alt-right and far-right community, if you can do nothing but say "wow, just, wow," you need to go somewhere you won't be offended. If you can get over it and contribute meaningfully, then feel free to stay.
>>
>>35036
Except it wasn't. That's just the justification for why it was betrayed.

Did you not see all the Indians, asians, and even blacks in the Rhodesian's pictures.
Rhodesia was in a slow, orderly transition to a democracy. Going full "african democracy" just fucked it up permanently.
>>
The entire world sided with the commies. Even the United States.

www.herald.co.zw/a-walk-down-memory-lane-with-andrew-young/

" Ambassador Andrew Young described Robert Mugabe in an interview with the Times of London on May 22, 1978: “Does Mr Mugabe strike you as a violent man?” the Times reporter asked.

“Not at all, he’s a very gentle man,” Young replied.

“In fact, one of the ironies of the whole struggle is that I can’t imagine Joshua Nkomo, or Robert Mugabe, ever pulling the trigger on a gun to kill anyone. I doubt that they ever have.

“I find that I am fascinated by his intelligence, by his dedication.

“The only thing that frustrates me about Robert Mugabe is that he is so damned incorruptible. . . . The problem is he was educated by the Jesuits, and when you get the combination of a Jesuit and a Marxist kind of philosophy merging in one person, you’ve got a hell of a guy to deal with,” Young was further quoted in the interview."

These were the guys in charge of diplomacy during the period.
>>
>>35036
Actually, Rhodesia was able to fight post-colonial guerrilla movements, that was the easy part. The hard one is facing the entire world, the UN, the US and the USSR, Great Britain and China, all siding with the commies.

It's the same as Portugal. They won a military defeat against the communists in Angola and Mozambique, but since the world sided with them, a bunch of commies did a revolution in Lisbon and relinquished the colonies to decades of civil war and millions of death. That's because the world see communism as better than "racism", even though it killed even more people. You can see this even here on /his/ where racism is banned but communism is accepted.
>>
>>27736
The main reason is that no one learns about this shit in history class.

Why can't black history month be good for something? All they ever use this month to talk about is stuff we already learned about.
>>
>>35072
or rhodesia confirmed african
>>
>>35706
>The only thing that frustrates me about Robert Mugabe is that he is so damned incorruptible
wew lad
>>
>>35777
>You can see this even here on /his/ where racism is banned but communism is accepted.
You've got to be kidding me. In the short amount of time this board has been up, there has been zero indication of any kind of slant, period, let alone the one you described.
>>
>>36086
Anything but a NIGGERSNIGGERSNIGGERS circle-jerk is upsetting to /pol/ crossposters
>>
>>27741
>>21562

I have absolutely no issue with the Jews having their own nation and I don't give one shit about Middle Eastern conflicts, especially not when a national state is exercising its right for self-determination.

Just leave my fucking country out of it. That's my issue.
>>
>>30882

I'd imagine the fact that Japan was incredibly racially homogenous had a lot to do with that fact.
>>
>>36605
This is the correct opinion. I would have zero problem with Israel if they weren't Jews that have to manipulate and spy on all their allies. You're treated better by Israel if you're neutral, rather than an ally.
>>
>>36993

Yes, indeed. And I don't even really have a MORAL objection to their duplicity, because it's just something all nations do. It'd be hypocritical of me to condemn them from an ethical standpoint, because I understand why it's in the interest of their people and how it'd be beneficial to me if I were in their situation.

I just look at it as "it is not beneficial for me or my nation to waste our resources and exhaust our international good will aiding them."
>>
Why would the U.S support the communists? They have never had a problem with supporting an oppressive right wing government before.
>>
It was a government by and for a small minority of the population. The aristocracy loved the system, but the peasants hated their guts. Same story that played out all around the world in the 19th and 20th centuries, people only get puzzled about this one because the aristocracy was white and the peasants weren't.
>>
>>37237

Look at it this way; nations only support other nations when it is expressly in their interest to do so. When there's no explicit stake in the strength or prosperity of another nation, then it is implicitly in the interest of other states to allow that nation's strength to erode. We live in a world of limited resources and strong nations are by default in competition. So, if you've got no stake in their survival, if your nation/state sees no benefit from another nation's strength, then it's in your nation's general long term interest that that other nation be weak. You might butt heads against them at some point and you want the advantage.

That's a simplification of this situation, to be sure, but I'd say that's a good general way to look at relations between states.
>>
>>36347
Fuck off white guilt faggot
>>
>>37543
Nobody was talking about that, faggot.
>>
>>24731
>Mandela.

Mandela was equally as shit because he was literally a communist terrorist.
>>
>White-run Rhodesia
>paradise in Africa, bread basket of Africa. Unprecedented prosperity
>Black-run Zimbabwe
>complete shithole, inflation so out of control that it becomes a joke

How come every time black people take over, all objective metrics of prosperity plummet?
>>
>>21335

Minority rule.

That's never a route of stability.
>>
>>37940
In the United States, the majority wanted George Washington to be a monarch. Very few people wanted a Republic. I would argue that Minority rule is the only thing that works because the majority doesn't want freedom. Everyone only wants a form of tyranny that sounds beneficial to them.
>>
>>37802
And yet being a racist is less socially acceptable than being a communist.

Everywhere around the world there is empirical evidence that communism is worst than racism, North Korea is hell, while South Korea, while racist, is a livable country. Rhodesia was a racist country which was better than socialist Zimbabwe etc etc

And yet racism is a bannable offense on /his/, while communism is not only allowed but encouraged.
>>
>>37940
Minority rule is only opposed when another minority decides to frame it as unacceptable.

In a lot of Western countries, a certain minority rule, but no one cares about that.
>>
>>21335
The west abandoned them
>>
>>38570
New World Order.

Also, does anyone have a good read on Rhodesia's history?
>>
>>38570

North Korea conveniently manages to be both communist and racist.
>>
>>21335
The dindus chimped out
>>
>>23972
>Rhodesia and post colonial Africa is all the justification you need to be racist.

How so?
>>
>>39316
It can be used as an historical example of what happens if another race takes power over your own

all colonialism shows this too
>>
>>40277
But how does that promote racism?
>>
>>40315
It promotes it because its an example of racial fighting and abuses and it shows that it can be done blacks against whites as well as whites against blacks
>>
>>40380
So the fact that racism exists on both sides is justification to be racist?

I don't quite understand.
>>
>>39316
The record rate at which the country went down into the shitter after black majority rule.

Granted they at best had a quarter generation of education at best. In Smiths book, the first few chapters he sadly writes about the difficulties of attempting to educate the majority of rural blacks, they saw education as a whitemans thing and a waste of time for their children.
>>
>>40430
A country being shit immediately after the upheaval of an establishment isn't anything unique or race-based.
>>
>>40412
The fact that they could not treat each other as equals either way and always oppressed the other is the justification
>>
>>40471
going from prosperity to toilet paper money overnight then keeping it that way for probably centuries is race based as all hell
>>
>>40471
Yet it got even worse as time went on.
>>
>>38570
Communism is linked to egalitarianism which has been falsely linked to Christian morality and this has easy appeal to many. Most people today just haven't thought through what egalitarianism really is, so when they hear a simple explanation of communism "everyone is equal, fair share for all!" they fail to understand what that entails. There's probably something to do with an anti-anti-semitic feeling in there too considering communism was primarily jewish and the modern depiction of the McCarthy era.
>>
>>21335
the white man keeping the man down
>>
The west betrayed them
>>
I'm always worried I'm going to see my father in these Rhodie photos.
>>
>>27181
>whites preferred being the overseers
So if all the blacks were the ones working the fields, then why did their entire agriculture collapse after their nation-wide genocide of whites? Also, do you think it's easy to go to a foreign country and build something from scratch?
>>
>>
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I have some rare images from a /k/ poster a while back.
I lost half of them sadly.
>>
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>>44934
>>44920
>>44902
>>44890
Thats all I got
>>
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>>
>>
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>You will never remove commie niggers from the premises
>Tfw Mugabe won
>>
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>>45053
>why even live
>>
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>>
>>
>>40412

It's called eye for an eye.
>>
>>45053
>commie niggers
>russian equipment

hypocrites are worse than niggers
>>
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>>
>>45208
Polish*

The gommies sent a shipment of pole T-55's and accidental called into south africa which swiftly captured and made use of them
>>
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>>45208
>what is captured equipment alex
lmfao.
>>45276
I have this on a shirt
>>
>>26807
>if apartheid SA was so bad for blacks, why did so many blacks from neighboring black-run states try to illegally immigrate to SA?
You'll never get a real answer m8.
>>
Literally the most effective fighting force in history
>>
>>
>>
>>45678
>>45694
>>45753
Goddamn thats incredible

the Rhodesians were truly one of the greatest people to walk this earth
>>
>>26994
The blacks had their own organized country?
Please, enlighten me
>>
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>>45787
My mother is a Rhodesian, she died a few years ago.
>>
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>>45787
Picrelated
>>45678
>>45694
>>45753
>>
>>45915
>Persians
>not white
>>
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>>45276
I tried phoning but all I can hear is chimp noises on the other side
>>
>>45915
this is cringe right?
>>
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>>47159
No, its fact
>>
>>47463
>persians couldn't conquer the white man
>except they had the greek polites in anatolia and propped sparta up with money
>moors
>held on to spain for hundreds of years and only had 1 major incursion - not even an invasion force into france
>we conquered you all
>by lucrative trade deals, not because of european superiority.
>muh pan european identity
>>
>>47647
Kek, you didn't grasp at all what it was saying.
We have been slaughtered, slaughtered eachother, wiped out by diseases, conquered the globe, and then set it all free.
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