Islamic Spanish Genocide

>>2131253
>they were unbelievablely brutal to the Muslims

actually they were believably brutal considering what the Muslims did to them.

reverse jihad, then it continued on the other side of the atlantic

SANTIAGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>2131264
Which was not much

It was brutal; on both sides.
History can't be painted as "good guys" and "bad guys" the vast majority of the time.
That is the biggest mistake we make when we visit past events.
For the most part everyone was just doing what suited their best interest at the time.

>>2131284
really? explain where Castilian ultra-violence comes from...

>>2131253
If it was truly a genocide then they wouldn't have left them the choice to leave or convert.
Also a lot of states/countries did that through history and way before the reconquista.Even if it was considered a genocide (which really isn't) it was certainly not the first then.

I also don't know much about the reconquista and very interested by it, hopefully this thread will be very informative and not just devolve into a "muslim vs christian" argument

Is your professor a female?

>>2131253
well, they did sort of steal their entire peninsula and treated them like garbage

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>>2131253
>everything about that image
>"Europe's first genocide"
>forced to die, convert or leave
>implying Spain was the aggressor

Holy shit I cannot breathe

>>2131340
The French

>>2131253
The word you're looking for is ethnic cleansing, and it was done to Moriscos as well as Jews and Muslims.

>>2131253
Here's what happened, OP:

After Mohammad died, the Islamic faith was spread by aggressive military campaigns that conquered then-Christian North Africa, then-Zoroastrian Persia, and what is now Spain and parts of France and Italy.

This would've been in the late 600s-early 700s. The Muslims, then ruled by the Umayyad caliphate, invaded Europe and conquered most of Spain, even pushing into central France. In 732, the Umayyads were finally defeated at the Battle of Tours, and pushed back into the Iberian peninsula. There they established a civilization that was actually pretty enlightened for its time and is known to this day for its religious tolerance.

Over the next seven centuries, Spain and Portugal reconquered the Iberian Peninsula in what was called the Reconquista. Muslims living under Spanish rule were generally forced to convert, but what happened can be hardly called a genocide. Given that the Muslims had invaded Spain in the first place, I have a hard time seeing the reconquista as a one-sided war of aggression.

>>2131253
So I'm in a course right now that is going over the conquest of Nazi Germany by the rest of Europe and my teacher says they were unbelievablely brutal to the Nazis they conquered and that's why there are no Nazis in Germany now.
What's the truth to this? I'm confused

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>>2131449

>>2131253
>5 million Muslims
Wasn't a majority always Christian?

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>>2131253
>Like OMG ethnocentrism is literally Hitler! You can't judge another culture by your own standards!
>Like literally the europeans were all so brutal and evil and like literally Hitler

I'll admit I don't know a lot about the reconquista, but I wouldn't be suprised if they were pretty brutal. Despite the prominence of the convencia meme, moorish Spain was not a haven of multicultural exchange, but was rather marked by segregation and hostility between the various religions, which means that whatever treatment the muslims were subjected to should not be suprising, or considered somehow more brutal compared to other people at that time.

>>2131253
Your professor is a revisionist sjw. Mudslims invaded firsts. They got exactly what they deserved. Also, europes first genocide? That is pathetic.

>>2131435
That's the outdated narrative. What actually happened:

A confederation of North Arab clans lead several invasions for loot and tribute, and in the process opened up the Byzantine and Sassanid empire to groups of Arabian colonists who inserted themselves as adventurers and mercenaries forming local alliances while maintaining family ties with Arabia. One clique amassed enough clout in Syria to claim themselves emperor in the fashion of the Byzantines which caused the colonists to push further out or pay nominal tribute to the new dynasty, pushing into Spain and Khorasan where they joined up with local land owners to oust the previous regime. Islam developed in the turn of the 8th century as a result of the new bureaucratic culture in Syria and Iraq and radiated outward through the Arab colonies and their various local clients who began to Arabize themselves in order to secure a role in the developing and increasingly Arabic bureaucratic network.

In Spain they pushed the previous invaders back into France and ignored the northern mountain tribes, who themselves were never conquered by the Visigoths and had resisted them, while marrying into native Hispano-Roman families. In Southern France over the next century local Gallo-Roman and Visigothic remnant landowners both fought and allied with northern Frankish and Moorish mercenaries and governors until the Carolingians overpowered everyone in the 8th and 9th century. In the political chaos of the 9th century the Iberian mountain tribes converted to Frankish influenced Latin Christianity and began to descend into the plains, and since then they've been expanding south while displacing both Arab-Berbers and converted Hispano-Romans.

>>2131473
>the Battle of Poitiers is now "outdated narrative"
Kek.

>>2131253
Your professor should be impaled by a heated metal pole through his asshole like all the rest of the Muslim cock suckers.

>>2131489

That version of the story sure is.

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>>2131491

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>>2131473
>Islam developed in the turn of the 8th century as a result of the new bureaucratic culture in Syria and Iraq
Dead meme.

>>2131513
Islam, not the Quran. The Quran is certainly early 7th century. The religion that developed around its history of transmission (and later the text itself) as well as the legal tradition, all came decades later.

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Oh no, those poor Muslims got kicked out of their peaceful Homeland.

Oh, what's that?

>>2131511
>he thinks Muslims and people who buddy up to them shouldn't be castrsted

>>2131518
Obviously Islam continued to change and develop after the 7th century, and Islam as it exists later isn't the exact same as it existed at it beginning, but that hardly means the religion didn't exist until then.

>>2131530
That is the non-edgy position, yes.

>>2131531
Which is why I never said it didn't exist, only that it developed later. While some version of it probably existed, it had none of the political dimensions of the mid Umayyad period that followed.

>>2131538
>it had none of the political dimensions of the mid Umayyad period that followed
What about the Rashidun?

>>2131549
A line of elected tribal chieftains whose guiding principle was the good sense and governance of their immediate predecessor instead of Muhammad or the Quran, both aspects which came later during the tail end of the Umayyad period to elevate them as model administrators against then contemporary decadent caliphs.

Sunnah for Ali and Uthman did not mean Muhammad's teachings, it meant the precedence of Umar and Abu Bakr.

>>2131563
That's interesting, but what are you basing this on?

>>2131576
"God's Caliph" by Patricia Crone is a good read for this particular subject.

>>2131584
I'll check it out, thank you.

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>>2131253
>that's why there are no Muslims in Spain now
Your teacher didn't visited us in the last 50 years, right?

>>2131253

tell your professor that there is a difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Religion is not race, genetics does not stop you from being a Muslim.

>>2131600
Inshallah friend, Re-Reconquista soon, this time we'll cross the Pyrenees.

>>2131613
I don't think so, amigo. Sandniggers are not prepared for low temperatures.

>genocide of [ideological belief]

When will this meme end?

>>2131612
>Religion is not race
During the Reconquista it could be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limpieza_de_sangre

>>2131647

The focus was on religion, not blood.

This is what makes it ethnic cleansing, not genocide.

I'm pretty sure I've read how lots of the local people who were under the visigoths remained there and largely were muslim converts in name only.

>>2131417
heh...good answer.

>>2131660
>The focus was on religion, not blood.
>de sangre

>>2131665
I was being serious actually. Before the influx of Frankish priests and queens the standard practice for any Iberian prince who conquered a town was to guarantee the religious customs and privileges of each community. The idea that Jews and Muslims should have their places of worship confiscated for churches, and not just the one major cathedral/mosque of the city for administrative purposes, and that Mozarabs should be forced to adopt the Latin Christian rite and priests over their own, started with them.

>>2131473
>In the political chaos of the 9th century the Iberian mountain tribes converted to Frankish influenced Latin Christianity and began to descend into the plains, and since then they've been expanding south while displacing both Arab-Berbers and converted Hispano-Romans.

10/10 post. The Normans and Northern Italians also got in the mix.

>>2131253
Is this some kind of bait?

>>2131683
>Frankish
>French

>>2131709
As in Christian religious traditions long developed in Frankish territory, in particular the Cistercians and the Benedictine reforms, and the French nobility of the 11th and 12th centuries that supported them.

>>2131253
Nod and agree with her, OP. In the classroom your teacher is god, it's not worth arguing about. However, take everything your K-12 teachers tell you about history with a large amount of salt. They probably aren't more qualified to teach history than any other subject, and they love throwing in false exaggerations and anecdotes they read online.

>>2131742
>and they love throwing in false exaggerations and anecdotes they read online

Just be aware everyone else likes to do this, too.

>>2131253
Muslims were brutal too. They used to leave piles of spaniard heads so high that one couldn't see over them while on horse back. It was a brutal war, but the more civilized won in the end.

>>2131772

>more civilized

Visigoths are literally the niggers of Europe and the Spaniards continued to hold that title after the re-conquest

It was brutal however the Muslims did not force convert the Visigoths or mass murder them.

The Spaniards destroyed one of the first universities of the world, libraries, many mosques including the largest mosque ever built in history, they're not any different to modern day ISIS.

A re-conquest is obviously justified however going further and wiping out any remnants of the civilization is a bit too much ( I dont know if there was a genocide tho)

>>2131851
>>2131841
Theres tons of muslim architecture and shit still today in southern spain, where they were stablished the longest. Of course they killed many of them and forced everyone else to convert, so what. The muslims did worse things to them

>>2132987
Shame there was never got a Greek reconquista cause you're right, Muslim < literally everything else

>>2131372
>/r9k/ visits /his/

>>2131468
>You can't judge another culture by your own standards!
>the europeans were all so brutal and evil
>I don't know a lot about the reconquista
>moorish Spain was not a haven of multicultural exchange
Good post!

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>>2131633
In HS I had a teacher who unironically used the term class ''''''''genocide'''''''

>>2131841
Are you retard?

>>2131253

>conquer spain, kill thousands of natives in your religions conquest = nothing
>those people reconquer their lands by bonding through another religion, killing their former overlords = genocide

why are Muslim /pol/-tier retarded?

>invade
>natives fight back and kick you out
>whine, claiming it to be genocide
I hate apologists that try to victimize anything for their own personal gain.

>>2131253
>>2131300
Yeah, but the Sephardic Jews, man.

>>2133337
were sent back to sephadia in north africa, with all the loot they plundered from the spanish man back in spanish hands.

>>2131364
I think under modern definition forced relocation is a part of genocide.

>>2131253
Show your teacher this list of common names in Spain. Genocide lol

https://blog.myheritage.es/2010/08/%C2%BFsu-apellido-tiene-origen-morisco-moro-o-arabe-proveniente-de-espana/

also the spanish language is full of arabic words

>>2131709
>hello I'm retarded

>>2131253
>when people talk about muslim spain as if it was one thing
>when people ignore the fact that the Almohads were completely different to the Umayyads

>>2133508

>Show a "teacher" from /his/tronic "course" a "list" from a random web.
Why not?

IF YOU DEFEND YOUR NATION FROM ARAB EXPANSIONISM YOU ARE A RACIST

>>2133542
People forget the muslims in spain were invaded twice by other muslims and they burned much of it cause it doesn't suit the antiwest narrative
>>2133508
Other than the rulers, all the population from alandalus were native

>>2131841
t. mohamed

>>2131424
Moriscos are muslims

>There were Christian majority and strong Jewish minority in Muslim Spain for centuries
>Most Muslims and Jews in Spain were forcible converted or expelled in a decade after "Reconquista"
Gee, I wonder which side was more tolerant and which one more fanatical.
>Reconquista was a reaction against Arab expansionism
It became real thing literally centuries after Arab expansions, and Iberian Kingdoms had little to do with Spaniards under Muslim rule except for Christianity, and they build their propaganda around it. I mean, it's like Mexico declaring war on US right now to "defend against British expansionism" and to liberate fellow Native Americans from the white people.

>>2131253
Your teacher is an antiwhite who doesn't believe that europeans have the right to defend and fight back muslim invasion
Remember Egypt and Anatolia were christian and now they are 99% muslims, yet he doesn't care does he?
Does he care about premuslim afghanistan, india or Persia?
No?
That's whay I thought.

Muslims build 2 mosques (Cordoba and Sevilla) and 2 palaces (Alhambra and Medina Azahara)
So much for the golden age.
4 buildings in 800 years.

>>2131253
>So I'm in a course right now that is going over the reconquest of Spain by the Christian
No, you are not.

>After expelling jews and muslims, Spain became the european superpower and invaded a whole continent.
Makes you think

>>2133607
jews opened the gates, they had it coming.

>>2131390
>Spain

>>2131513
>implying ideas floating around on the Arab peninsula disprove the late Islam thesis

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>>2131841
They were not dumb enough to destroy the mosques, they turned them into churches and cathedrals.

>>2131633
Well look up the UN definition on genocide and come backl.

>>2133624
unlike churches in the arab world

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>>2133610
> Remember Egypt and Anatolia were christian and now they are 99% muslims, yet he doesn't care does he?
Egypt has 10-15% of Coptic population, who are Christians living there since before the Muslim Conquest 1400 years ago. Syria, Levant and Iraq have substantiation Christian minorities since the pre-conquest times too. At the same time, there is no Saxon, Baltic or Slavic pagans left in Europe, no Muslims in Spain or Sicily and almost no native religions left in Americas. Historically speaking, until recently it was much more comfortable to be a religious minority under Muslims when under Christians.

>>2131253
>my teacher says they were unbelievablely brutal to the Muslims
Sounds like your teacher is horribly fucking biased and prejudiced against Christians.

Maybe she or he can teach a history that seeks to understand and not demonize one particular side.

>BWAHAHAHAHA

I'm just kidding. Most teachers teach with a 100% full on liberal left-wing reading of history now.

You'd be very fucking lucky to actually get some unbiased history from a teacher nowadays.

>>2133642

No, actually most people goes to school and some even to Universities later.
But /his/ goes to randam courses teached by who knows in imaginary colleges.

>>2133633
You mean like the Haghia Sofia or the Tripoli Cathedral?

Or are you insinuating that ISIS blows up churches? Because they more often than not repurposed them.

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>>2133613
You shouldn't base your arguments on Tourist Guides and memes.

>>2133636
What is albany, what is bosnia, what is tartaristan?
How well do coptics live?
Where are the christians in Anatolia?
Where are the zoroastrians in Persia?
Where are the buddhists in Afghanistan?
What is Pakistan?

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>>2133633
Yes, the state of the churches in literally every arab country is shit.

>>2133649
Do you know about the holy sepulchre?
>Haghia Sofia
Oh you mean that bulding that got painted over?
>Tripoli Cathedral
Changed forever, doesn't even resemble the same building, and absolute disgrace
>>2133651
That's sevilla you fucking mongol, I already mention that.

>>2133660
le one church btfo

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>>2133656
All of your examples pretty much date back to the 20th century. Also there like 30.000 Zoroastrians in Iran and in general those countries are pretty much heterogen religious-wise if you look closely. Iranian Jews for example were expelled in the 80s only. Prior to the revolution 100.000s were living in Iran
>>2133675
Pic related.

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On 18 October 1009, Fatimid caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah ordered the complete destruction of the church as part of a more general campaign against Christian places of worship in Palestine and Egypt

Before le crusades

>>2133680
>Tunis, former french colony
ok
>>2133680
Who would pay the jyza if there were no kafirs?

>>2133675
>not knowing that Palestine is plastered with Churches
>not knowing about Orthodox Palestinians
Educate yourself bro.

>>2133685
>Tunis, former french colony
>actually believing this is an argument here
>>2133682
Yeah, he was a dick. So what? Cause pilgrimage to the Holy Land was for the most part pretty easily. Especially since it brought money in.

>>2133682
Al-Hakim was a known nut who fucked with everyone, and his successor apologized to the Byzantine Emperor for the embarrassment and rebuilt the church.

>>2133647
>never been to an American elementary "social studies" class
You have no idea the level of indoctrination that goes on nowadays

>>2133700
>>2133699
>>2133699
I see he wasn't a real muslim

>>2133687
we have 1% of the population non muslim
we multicultural

>>2133656
> What is albany, what is bosnia
> Where are the zoroastrians in Persia?
> Where are the buddhists in Afghanistan?
What about them? Some nations in the region accepted Islam for their own reasons, others (Serbs, Greeks, Bulgars, Iranian Zoroastrians, Armenians) didn't. It wasn't a forced conversion in the most cases. It's like asking where are the native religions in Africa and Americas, or what happened with Pagans and Hungarian Tengri in Europe? They converted, this is that people do.
> what is tartaristan?
U w0t, m8? Volga Tatars (Bulgars) converted peacefully to Islam in 920s, becoming the first nation with organized monotheistic religion in the region. All their neighbors were pagans, Russians converted to Orthodoxy only ~50 years latter. Islam is the original religion in the region, if you don't count paganism.
> How well do coptics live?
Poorly, but then again, at least they do. You can't say the same about Muslim population in Spain.
> Where are the christians in Anatolia?
There were plenty until the Armenian Genocide and the Greco-Turkish war 100 years ago.
> What is Pakistan?
Another one artificial country created by the Eternal Anglo?

>>2133715

>You can't say the same about Muslim population in Spain.
Please, tell me more about the ongoing Muslim extermination carried by Spain while we talk.

>>2133682
Al-Hakim is vilified by Muslims themselves, he was more or less crazy, basically Muslim Caligula. Also he was a Shia.

>>2133711
You're talking about a guy who literally saw himself as a god and is still worshiped as one by another religion to this day.

>>2133715
people in spain converted to islam and then they converted to christianism
only the leaders and soldiers were from outside

>>2133715
I see only chrstianism is forced, islam is not, is always peacefully
Got it

>>2133722
We're not talking about the recent times, so see the OP.
>>2133726
No? The majority of Christians in Spain retained their faith under Muslim rule.
>>2133734
>this straw man
That's not my point. Islam has its own history of forcible conversion (Safavid Persia for example) and Christianity was spread by proselytism and peaceful conversion too. My point is, until recently, Muslims in general was more tolerant to other religions, and continued survival (and sometimes thriving) of Christian and Jewish identities in Al-Andalusia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, of Zoroastrians in Persia and Hindu in India is a proof of that. At the same time, the only example of more-or-less tolerated religious minority in the pre-modern Western Europe is Jews, otherwise Christians actively prosecuted religious minorities and forced them into conversion, Spain, Americas and Africa being examples of that.

I do realize the roles kinda switched in the modern time, but that's doesn't mean it was like this before.

>>2133757
>Muslims in general was more tolerant to other religions
Check their conquest of India.

Also we will raid your coasts, destroy your econmy and kidnap all your little girls, but you can convert and there will be peace kafir.
You can live under our goberment, just pay the jyza and don't try to convert anyone.
Also if someone leaves our religion to yours we'll kill him.
All is good.
Peace.

>>2133757
They didn't swith there was no fucking role each nation/dinasty deal their own way.
Show me the wonderful churches build under muslim rule in Spain.

>>2133757

You are mixing stuff bro.

>>2133768
This is mostly true, but I fail to see how it's worse than "Convert to our Religion Of Love or you have to flee this place your ancestors lived in for centuries", "Convert for real or Inquisition find out and we will burn you at stake" or "These are nice mosques you got here, they'll make a perfect churches when you're gone".
>>2133774
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozarabic_art_and_architecture#Architecture

>>2133642
Let me guess with "unbiased" you mean christian bias?

>>2133791
You were the one puting one above the other.

You can't never be too hard on goatfuckers.
>>2133791
>Convert to our Religion or you have to flee this place your ancestors illegally occupied for centuries".
Nothing wrong eith this. Goatfuckers were occupaying land that wasn't theirs and they got BTFO. They were too merciful with them and should have just slay them all

>>2133812
Because one is kinda about the other, the Muslim's approach at the time was more tolerant and humane, and the Christian approach was close to genocide in modern terms.
>>2133837
> Goatfuckers were occupaying land that wasn't theirs and they got BTFO.
How long do you have to live in a place to become "rightful owner"? Muslims had been living in Al-Andalusia for longer than Europeans had in Americas by now. If anything, Iberian Kingdoms were no less occupants, having no right on the clay, the rightful owner should have been the ruling emperor in Constantinople, and the right religion - Eastern Orthodoxy with Latin rite.

>>2133865
>How long do you have to live in a place to become "rightful owner"?
It is not a matter of time but of right. Muslims invaded Spain illegally. The christian kingdoms retook their rightful land. Goatfuckers can't understand this god knows why.

>>2133882
> Muslims invaded Spain illegally
Actually, they were invited by Spanish noble. Also, did Europeans invade Americas "legally"? Did Russian conquer Siberia illegally? Did British have a legal right to conquer India and half of Africa? Hell, how "legal" was Roman conquest?
>The christian kingdoms retook their rightful land
The christian Kingdoms didn't even exists at the time of Muslim Conquest, they all had their nuclei in the north of the peninsula and they had no inherit "right" to own the land they "reconquer". Again, the analogy would be Mexico declaring war on US to "reconquer rightful native lands from illegal European occupants".

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>>2131473
Very succinct and clinical narrative which avoids making a hero or villain of any side. 9/10 would not proscribe.

>>2132987
>The muslims did worse things to them

So what bad things exactly did the muslims do?

>>2133896
>they were invited by Spanish noble.
They were hired. The muslims just chose to conquer everything
> Also, did Europeans invade Americas "legally"?
No
>Did Russian conquer Siberia illegally?
No
>Did British have a legal right to conquer India and half of Africa?
No.
But the muslims were rightfully expelled and you goatfuckers have no real argument against it.

>>2131473
>ignored the northern mountain tribes, who themselves were never conquered by the Visigoths and had resisted them,
This is wrong. You're confusing two different peoples.

>>2131623

Such as Sweden?

>>2131253
>5 million Muslims
Yeah, according Muslims. That's bullshit they were always a minority elite.

>>2133508
Some of that lastnames are kinda common, most are rare as fuck.

>>2131473
Multiple things wrong here.

>5 million Muslims in Spain
Hmm wonder how that happened...
>Christians are the only ones with leave, convert, or die.
Sure...

>>2133898
heavy taxing.

>>2131253
What your teacher says about Chrstian push in Eastern Europe agiast pagans?
Or it's only matter when muslim is victims?
Also would that teacher agree or disagree with that picture?

>>2133615
>After expelling jews, Germany lost power status and it never regained its military potential, barely avoiding partition.
Makes you ponder.

>>2134373
You must be retarded to interpret my post as muslim apologism.

>>2133615
>>After expelling jews and muslims, Spain became the european superpower and invaded a whole continent.
>Makes you think
Spain really only decided to do what Germanics were too fucking dumb to think of.

Why is it so hard to admit that pre-modern Christians were dicks?

I'm culturally Christian, identify with Catholicism and hate contemporary Muslims in Europe too. But it's obvious that pre-modern Islam was more """tolerant""" than Christianity. Just look how many pagan religions survived in the Muslim world: Yazidis, Sabeans, Mandeans, Alawites, Zoroastrians, and compare to Europe. Or just compare how Christianity also survived in the Arab world, while the Muslim communities of Spain and Sicily disappeared.

See this, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_settlement_of_Lucera

>With the death of Charles I the situation changed drastically. His son and successor, Charles II, in 1289 had already made plans to expel the Jews from his dominions of Anjou and Maine. In 1300 an identical definitive solution was taken to solve the problem of the Muslims of Lucera.
>Apparently the expropriations that derived from the measure enabled the Angevin King to settle several of his debts with the Florentine bankers.[13]
>The attack, aided by treachery inside, was led by Giovanni Pipino di Barletta, count of Altamura.[14] A few rich and well connected families of Lucera Muslims opted for a fast, and very opportune, conversion to Christianity.
>The majority of the city's Muslim inhabitants were slaughtered or – as happened to almost 10,000 of them – sold into slavery,[1] with many finding asylum in Albania across the Adriatic Sea.[15] Their mosques were demolished or the buildings reconverted back to churches, such as the cathedral S. Maria della Vittoria.[16] Even most of those Muslims that converted to Christianity were sold as slaves.[17]

Show something similar in the medieval Islamic world, outside of conquests.

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>>2131473
You confused the northern tribes with the basque and astures resistance to romans, not visigoths. The suebians were the ones that resisted visigothic rule, but surrendered mid 6th century. The reconquista is said to begin when Pelayo, local noble, refused to pay yizza, and a small force was sent against him. It is important to note that most of Spain was under Muslim rule, the places that weren't were because of no actual population in it

>>2134460
Because people went to much into Christian bashing as rampart atheists or muslim apologists.
People try to counter it and go overboard

And I'm saying it as Atheist, that people view Christianity unfairly.

>>2134540
Asturians didn't resist Romans. At least not any more than other peoples on the peninsula. They resisted the Muslims only because of Pelago.
The Basques are a completely different history. They ended up siding with the Franks which they hated because there were no more Visigoths to side with.
The Cantanabrians allied with the Asturians, but also with the Muslims in different times.
Basically some people resisted the Moors, but that was independent of whatever earlier resistances had been going on. It was all derived from Pelago who didn't want to pay the tribute like you said.

>>2134460
I agree with you in general, but Islam was far less tolerant with smaller non-Abrahamic religions like Buddhism. But in general you're right, Christians, Zoroastrians, Jews and other religions had it shit under Islam but they were far better off than non-Christians under Christendom. Furthermore, Muslims were far more tolerant of other Muslim sects; there's no equivalent to the European Wars of Religion or shit like the Cathar Crusades.

>>2131253
>thats why there are no muslims in spain now

best b8 ive seen today

>>2131253

Revisionist History 101: evil is as whitey does.

>>2134933
>Spain
>White

>>2133636
>almost no native religions left in Americas.
Opinion discarded

>>2134972

Revisionist History 201: someone is always the whitey.

>>2133615
They only became one because one of their navigators got lost in the atlantic.
And while we are speaking about the discovery of america
>After expelling jews and muslims, Spain started conquering,slaughtering,raping and enslaving a people who were friendly to them (look up how the the spaniards treated the arawaks/tainos)
Really fires up my neurons.

>>2131253
Portugueses person here
You techer is a retard yes the iberians were brutal to muslims but it was a fair course of action the muslims were total animals to us
> send some kninghts to tell the muslims in lisbon that they are outnumbered and should surrender
>muslims chop the head of said knights at the gates
>smash the muslims in lisbon with templar help
>procced to chop the head of the muslims and put them at the gate
But this isnt the main reason you teacher is retard there are no muslims in iberia because of convertion to the chatolic faith and cross mariges over the years Not because of some genocide so next time tell him to fuck off

>>2131435
>Given that the Muslims had invaded Spain in the first place
Yeah and how did the Visigoths (a Germanic tribe) take control of Spain before the Muslims showed up?

Why did they stop at the boarder. Should have kept going indefinitely

>>2135189
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alcazar

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>>2133704
>an American elementary "social studies" class
You mean those where you learn about pepe the frog?

>>2131435
/pol/ ?

>>2131253
>or leave
Doesn't really sound like genocide

>>2135420
I for one think that lessons like these could be good for people who are autistic caretakers

It could give us a good insight on how autistic people work, how to deal with them and just how bad it can be on a individual.

>>2131662
They even drank wine, most barely were muslims and only converted to avoid taxes (and to atack the northen kingdoms for booty). People seems to not know than Spaniards/Iberians are a lot more traditionalist than religious.

>>2131841
The Visigoths were on they way of a Western Renaissence actually, with heavy influences of the ERE (they even did a city inspired in constantinople), lots of churches were destroyed be the Arab/berbers invaders to make Mosques, and the arabs/berbers of those were shit at building, most of the typical andalusian style was inspired in Ibero-Roman or VIsigothic building style, the horse-shoe arch, the white and red way of making brick buildings etc.

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>>2135695
>the typical andalusian style was inspired in Ibero-Roman or VIsigothic building style
Andalusian architecture was mostly inspired by that of the Syrian Umayyads, as the Umayyads of Cordoba attempted to emulate their forebears, and then later influences came from elsewhere in the Islamic world like Morocco and Iran. The only possibly Visigothic element, the horseshoe arch, had actually already been used in the Great Mosque of Damascus and earlier Byzantine architecture.

>>2133336
>>natives fight back and kick you out
The current accepted theory is that the natives just DGAF and it was just Franks kicking out Muslims from the ruling class.

>>2134975
Anon is probably unitedstatesian.

>>2135466
>every narrative I don't like is /pol/
Fuck you're an idiot

>>2133757
It is not a recent thing. Islam has had waves of radicalism from the tenth century onwards. ISIS is completely normal by Islam's historical standards.

>>2133757
The Islamic slave trade was religiously motivated and orders of magnitude larger and crueler than the Atlantic slave trade. There is no such thing as moderate Islam bar a few sects like the amadiyyas, considered apostate anyway. Islam should be forcibly purged from every western country with extreme prejudice.

>>2133865
Muslims occupied hispania for a much shorter time than Christians except in the southernmost part. You're spewing less out of ignorance or malice.

>>2133898
Systematic castration of Christian slaves.

>>2131253
>first
way more before that and not just in europe
your pic is a piece of shitty propaganda

This thread is shit. I'll post more when I get back from celebrating Xmas.

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>>2135891
Christians "occupied" Spain from 380 (when Edict of Thessalonica made Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire) till 718 (the end of the Arab conquest of Spain), i.e. 338 years. This means that after 718+338=1056, i.e. the middle the First Taifa, Muslims occupied Spanish lands for longer than Christians did, and everything Christians conquered after picrel they did illegally and it should be considered a deplorable act of aggressive expansionism rather than "reconquest" or "liberation".

>>2133615
And subsequently became the first state in the history of the world to declare bankruptcy.

>>2131489
It is. All evidence points to the Battle of Poitiers/Tours being a raiding party that got their asses handed to them after straying into the territory of a particularly fearsome Frankish warlord.

Why would an "invading army" go all the way to Tours without holding any of the territory it plowed past.

>>2131772
How were the Castilian clansmen more civilized than the Andalusians famous for their architecture, poetry, and philosophy?

>>2133586
>your nation
>in the early middle ages

Your knowledge of history is nowhere near sufficient for you to post here. Lurk more.

Love how these threads always turn into dick measuring contests of sorts. Which religion was/is eviler, christianity or islam?

>>2131253
>and that's why there are no Muslims in Spain now

Unfortunately this isn't true. I live in a small city and saw 2 ragheads just a few days ago. The bigger cities allegedly have lots of them.

>>2133715
>Some nations in the region accepted Islam for their own reasons,

Reasons like not having to pay jizyah and not being treated as second class citizens.

You muslim apologists really are the worst.

>>2133488
>under modern definition
There's your problem

>>2133642
This desu religious minorities are barely tolerated in Muslim countries and can easily become persecuted
See Christians in Lebanon and Egypt

>>2135420
>>2135555
>we were just shitposting bro.
The internet is a medium of communication. When you affect it, you affect society. The blokes are studying the effect pepe memes had on a momentous social event in the US.

>>2135969
The southern part of Spain was stolen goatfucker. The Spaniards just BTFO your useless kin

>>2135969
The southern part of Spain was stolen goatfucker. The Spaniards just BTFO your useless kin

>>2136053
>Andalusians famous for their architecture, poetry, and philosophy?
Lol. Maybe during the Taifas. They were mostly ruled by dumb berber goatfuckers that dethroat anyone who wasnt a zealot

>>2135969

The southern part of Spain was stolen goatfucker. The Spaniards just BTFO your useless kin

>>2131253
Spain got pretty harsh on non-Catholics, especially Jews and Muslims. It was pretty fucked up.

>muh moral high ground
shitpost, the only remotely moral people were random commoners who through various experiences or talents discarded contemporary spooks but were powerless to spread their ideas, everyone else was an autocrat or a fanatic

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>>2133508
>none of my four surnames are on that list
SANTIAGO Y DIOS

>>2133508
Almeida is not of moorish origin. Better said, people have that name because of a fortress conquered by the christians, not because the moors bred that name.

>>2131253
>Europe's first
>first

Neanderthals? The brown European hunter gatherers before the (at the time) pale Middle East and swarthy Yamnaya BLEACHED the continent?

Anyone here who mentions the "natives" is Spain taking back their land needs to shut tf up. Iberia has been ruled by foreign powers for the VAST majority of its history. The natives weren't in charge before the Muslim conquests and they weren't on charge after.

>>2138301
>and they weren't on charge after.
Who was in charge after you dumb goatfucker?

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>>2131300
>History can't be painted as "good guys" and "bad guys" the vast majority of the time.

Muslims were always the bad guys.

>>2138307
Foreign noblemen.

>>2138307
I meant after the reconquista. Stop trying to change the narrative you Deus Vult tards. The history of Iberia is a history of foreign rule. Muslims taking over wasn't anything special. It only triggers you because you don't like Muslims.

>>2137361
>>2137362
>>2137758
Nice

>>2133607
>it's like Mexico declaring war on US right now to "defend against British expansionism" and to liberate fellow Native Americans from the white people.
don't they claim that every day on ny times on the immigration issue?

>>2131340
Much of the so-called ultra-violence is a product of Protestant propaganda anyway.

>>2133604
Nope, they're 'new' Christians ie converts

>>2131464
Indeed; the muslims were never a majority in the Andalus

aren't christians, jews and muslims the same shit?

>>2135184
Before that the Romans

>>2135184
The Romans gave it to them.

>>2131253
I'd say that the Spanish Inquisition was relatively mild compared to the force with which the Moors conquered spain in the first place. Very few people were actually executed during the 200+ years it was going on. Here's how an average inquisitor would go about dealing with a Moor.

>Find out of someone is Moorish or Spanish.
>If Spanish offer Baptism and acceptance into Christianity or at least giving up Islam
>If Moorish offer conversion or deportation
>If Moorish and both are refused, send people to forcefully remove
>Only execute people who refused to leave and took up arms against the inquisition.

You compare that to what the Moors did.
>Death to all Christians
>You are born Moorish or you die.

>>2131253

>be foreign invaders and colonizers
>privilege yourself over locals in legal code
>force your religion and culture on locals
>cry when locals get strong enough to force you back to where you came from

Vae victis. Your teacher almost certainly sheds no tears over the death of Rhodesia or Apartheid South Africa, you shouldn't shed tears over some long-dead people losing land they stole either just because they were brown Muslims.

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>>2134309
>Multiple things wrong here.
/his/ in one post

>>2137364
Only during the brief period of the Al Mohads and Al Moravids

>>2135184
Romans the ones Spanish people sweared fealty to gave them new administrators.

>>2138319
>Foreign noblemen.
How is the nobility foreign?
>inb4 Habsburgs
They had a claim through Juana which was a Trastamara.
>>2138322
> I meant after the reconquista
So answer the question you stupid goatfucker.

>>2140266
>>2140266
>brief period
>Cordoban Caliphate (929-1036)
>Taifas (1036-1085)
> Al Moravids (1085-1147).
>Al Mohads (1147-1269)
>But hey just ignore the people that ruled the land for the longest and look at the 100 years of prosperity out of hundreds of poor barbarism and dumb goatfuckerism

>>2131253
>islamic spanish genocide
>spain didn't even exist at the time

>>2136028
Not him and not denying that tours is over exaggerated, but it's relatively common to blitz your way across territory to a local strongpoint, take it, and have the pockets of resistance you've enveloped along the way dealt with as you consolidate your new strongpoint.
And unlike modern Europe there wouldn't be much in the way of border security, there were centralized locations where lords ruled over parcels of land, so that might have been where to lord of the territory was located

>>2140397
Disregard my post, I was being silly and got tours' location confused with toulouse

>>2131253
>implying this is a bad thing
I always admired my fellow Spanish kebab-removing brethren

>>2140350
>How is the nobility foreign?
By a certain point, the nobility became a mix from Navarre, Aragón, Francia, and all kinds of places.
Portugal in particular never had a native origin king.

>>2140597
>By a certain point, the nobility became a mix from Navarre, Aragón, Francia,
So the nobility was basically Spaniard. You really showed everyone that you are a dumb goatfucker

>>2140659
None of these kingdoms I mentioned have any sort of relation to Asturias/Leon/Castille apart from being their neighbors. It's literally the same as the French nobility ruling England.
But for a short time the king of the Asturias was indeed of native origin.
Not that that matters anyway since most of Europe has been ruled by foreign people since forever.
You really showed everyone that you know shit about the history of Spain, dumb autist.

>>2140673
>None of these kingdoms I mentioned have any sort of relation to Asturias/Leon/Castille
Are you this retarded on purpose? Appart from lying Castile's identity and independence is highly related to Navarra. Also most of the nobility of all the kingdoms was native and the bigger families were the ones that had a bigger influence during the independence. All in all you are a fucking moron that has no clue about what he is talking about

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Moriscos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_Decree

>>2140690
>Appart from lying Castile's identity and independence is highly related to Navarra.
No. Castillian monarchs are related to Navarre. Navarre itself was a partner of France. Nothing to see here, just some dumb Cantanabrian.

>>2140706
You fucking moron. Castile exists because there was a succession dispute between Navarra and León around the county. You are just a dumb goatfucker

>>2140713
>Castile exists because there was a succession dispute between Navarra and León around the county.
Castille already existed. It was conquered teritory. It gained autonomy because of that succession dispute you mentioned. Its existence and relevance however have nothing to do with what you mentioned.
Keep believing what you want, though, tio.

>>2140722
you dumbass, castile was a political entity formed donating a land where there were tons of defensive fortifications, there was no national difference between castile or leon, asturias, portugal, etc..

>>2140729
>there was no national difference between castile or leon, asturias, portugal, etc..
But all those places were already there, already named, already either in county or duchy form.
Galiza was a Kingdom entirely, for instance. It just had the same king as the rest.
Castille's kings are not of native origin, anyway.

>>2140722
>Castille already existed.
No it didn't. As a political entity it was formed much later. The county of Castile originated later

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you will never take your horse, sword, friends and brothers and slay moors, defend your religion and european values, reconquer spain and become a hero

>>2140849
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Castile#9th_to_11th_centuries:_The_beginnings
It had that name right from the start m8. It was a county too. It's borders just weren't as well defined.

>>2141122
>9th century
>The kingdom of Asturias was created in the 8th century
You just proved it

>>2141252
I never said the county of Castille showed up at the same time as the Kingdom of Asturias did. All I said it was that it was conquered territory. I even made a typo and wrote "teritory"