Why was Islam able to unite under one empire but Christianity

>>2130158
>Christianity never could?
But it did. For a while. The Roman Empire had Christianity as the state religion.

>>2130158
it dident for long just like the roman empire
I bet you also believe the Islamic golden age meme too.

>>2130158
Islam seeks to set up an "Islamic society" and has laws written as for how a Muslim ruler should lead. Christianity doesn't and focuses more on ones personal connection with God instead.

>>2130166
The "Islamic golden age" existed, but only in Spain, Mesopotamia, and Persia for short periods of time. Most of the rest of the Islamic world was getting fucked by Turks and/or Crusaders when those regions were prospering.

>>2130166
>the islamic golden age never existed
remind me who built Alhambra

>>2130158
>What is Rome

>>2130158
It never did, really, it just had some really unbalanced politics early on that gives it that impression. There were plenty of dissidents and civil wars and splinter factions.

>>2130158
Because Islam is all in one.
>religion
>political system
>social customs

>>2130158
satan runs this place

>>2130158
It didn't, because like Christianity it actually grew to be what it was within an empire that was united only in theory but which fell apart constantly.

>Unity in Islam
Are there people who actually believe this myth. Sunni, Shiite, Wahbbaism, and Liberal Islam

>Why was Islam able to unite under one empire but Christianity never could?

I was not aware Islam ever united under "one" Empire. In fact, I thought that they divided among tribal and ethnic and even doctrinal lines the moment Muhammed died, if not earlier.

>>2130158
Because Christianity is for beta numale cucks
Islam was founded by an alpha chad who even fucked a little girl because he fucking felt like it

>>2130375
Here's a brief sketch for you

>Muhammad beats the Meccans and establishes a state in Western Arabia
>Tribesmen in the rest of the Arabian Peninsula go "oh fuck this guy's strong we shouldn't fuck with him" and nominally convert and pay tribute to him
>Muhammad dies and his successor is Abu Bakr
>Abu Bakr demands tribute
>tribes say "fuck off we only agreed to pay tribute to muhammad we never actually converted"
>Abu Bakr and co. conquer the tribes and defeat several groups led by people who said they were also prophets
>Arabian Peninsula mostly united under Abu Bakr and his successor Umar
>Uthman comes to power and cracks start to appear for several reasons (He appointed a lot of his family members to governorships which made some mad because they felt the family of Muhammad should lead or that the positions should be given to the generals or the companions of Muhammad) and was eventually killed by an angry mob
>Ali becomes caliph and for several other reasons (such as the fact that he didn't punish the people who killed Uthman, the fact that the Khawarij thought that Ali was insufficiently pious, the armed opposition of Uthman's relative and governor of Syria Mu'awiya or because Aisha opposed his accession) loses control of much of the caliphate and is killed by a Khawarij assassin in 661, thus launching a civil war from which the umma (muslim community) never fully recovered

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>>2130158
It did though?

>>2131964
So were the Kharijites pro Uthman or simply anti-Ali? The only thing I know about them is they feel the Caliph can be flawed, can be overthrown, and aren't infallible.

>>2132011
literally all the kingdoms around it were christian as well

>>2132042
Anti-Ali and anti-anyone who wasn't up to their ideals
They were against the caliph being chosen just because they were part of Muhammad's family or because they were someone who knew Muhammad
The Pro-Uthman groups went with Mu'awiya, who founded the Umayyad caliphate in Damascus after Ali's death

>>2131964
Good post, although you left out the fact Abu Bakr, Muhammed, and Omar all appointed a lot of relatives to high positions as well.

Most of the anti-Uthman writings are exaggerated by Shi'ites. And the same for Sunnis towards Ali.

Historically, we know very little verified information about the Rashidun Caliphate. Most is from Hadiths/Suras in the 800's and 900's.

>>2131964
This is well done.

>>2132113
What's the difference between Sunni and Shia and how do I remember it?

>>2132250
Sunnis are the majority in most of the Muslim world

To them, the word "Imam" means "guy who reads prayers out loud in front of the mosque"

Sunnis are the majority in Iran and Iraq and are prominent in Syria as well

To them, "Imam" means "Ali or one of a certain number of guys (depending on the branch it might be 5, 7 or 12 with 12 being the most common) descended from him who is a special person with a special connection to God and should be revered"

There's more differences than this but a lot of them revolve around the Shi'a idea of the imam.

>>2132285
So their Imam is hereditary, like some kina kangz nd shiet?

>>2132304
Up to a point yes. Depending on the sect, X imam went into "occultation" (still lives in the world but he's hidden and nobody will find him unless he wants to be found) and will come back and bring about the day of judgment when God sends everyone to paradise or hell.

>who is Charlemagne
>what is the Holy Roman Empire
gtfo with this shit b8

>>2132321
Wait, so are these Imams secular rulers, like Caliphs, or Demigods, like Jesus? Is the Ayatollah an Imam?

>>2131964
Oh look, Satan's followers making Satan happy with all the sin abound in worldly Islam and among Muslims.

>>2132329
>secular rulers
Definitely not secular. As to rulers, they might have been if they'd had the chance. Shi'a tradition maintains that almost every imam was poisoned by a caliph. The actual facts are a bit murkier but the caliphs held them on a short leash.

An Ayatollah is a title given to a recognized scholar in the Shia legal tradition. So for example Ayatollah Khomeini, though descended from Muhammad, would not be an Imam because the last imam in the branch he believes in is hidden, but he is an ayatollah because he is recognized by other prominent ayatollahs as one. There was some controversy a while back when Khamenei took unofficial office as the Supreme Leader that he didn't have the proper credentials to be a Grand Ayatollah (which the Iranian constitution mandated as a requirement for attaining the leadership of the country)

>>2132367
So are there any non hidden imams today? If so, are they irrelevant because (I assume Khomeini was a twelver) the main branch believes their imam is hidden?

If one of these non hidden imams was declared sunni caliph would the schism be solved? What are the qualifications to be a sunni caliph? Do they have to be descendants of Muhammed?

>>2132379
>So are there any non hidden imams today
The difference between any shia denomination is about which imam is the hidden imam today.

>>2132416
So they're all hidden? When and why did they decide to hide?

>>2132379
No there aren't any non-hidden imams that i know of. I don't know too much about the fivers though, and the Alawites (debatable if they're even Shia) I don't know shit about.

Technically the qualification for being a sunni caliph is calling yourself the caliph like the ISIS leader has. I could drive to a mosque and call myself a caliph but that doesn't make me one. I think a prospective caliph would have to have a significant portion of the Muslim world behind him in order to pull it off. For example, if a guy somehow managed to pull all of north africa and the arabian peninsula under his control and declare himself caliph he would probably be recognized by a large number of sunnis.

>>2132431
Are you a muslim?


stop blowing up pls

>>2132441
Nope. I just used the mosque thing as a frame of reference.

>>2130158
It did. Christianity had it's own internal conflicts, as did the Muslims. Sure Christian Europe never had the brief period of unification that the Caliphate offered for 200 years, but when cultures came clashing Europe unified.

>>2132445
Does Wahhabism represent Islam?

What's the difference between Wahabbism, Qutbism, Salafism, and whatever those lads that seized the mosque in Saudi had?

>>2132470
It represents a particular form of Islam as Wahhab saw it. I don't know very much about the differences between the various Islamist lines of thought, unfortunately.

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Traditionally there's more of a separation between the state and church in Christian thought.

>>2132479
I feel like the more questions I ask the more you can't be arsed to answer them.

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>>2130344
Hey, according to your logic, unity is a myth because the existence of small group going off from the main branch.

According to your logic, Islam is more united than Christianity because Christians have thousands of thousands different Churches and denominations, which the 'Holy Spirit' guide all of them to different paths, instead of one path.

>>2132491
It's not that it's that I actually have no idea. A lot of this stuff is something I learned from a book or from college lectures and it doesn't go very far past the year 1500. I'm trying to get a few more books on the more modern stuff though.

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>>2132513
Don't play this little game you cutie. When Sunnis and Shiites are killing each other at an alarming rate, and Liberal Islamist in Saudi are being placed in jail and about 50% muslims have denounced the teaching of Wahhabism. Can't b compared to Christianity when you have Catholics, Protestants and Mormans, who don't strap bombs to themselves and blow shit up. You're cute when you try to talk to me about stuff, but don't let this happen again, ok! Or I'll bring the bat.

>>2132470
>Wahhabism
A particular kind of salafism, started by ibn Abdul Wahhab in Arabia around 17th century. Salafism as practised by Saudi Arabia is wahabism.

>Qutbism
Label for anyone who admire Sayyid Quthb, second leader of Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. MB is quite unique that they're using alot of sufi practice but also draws heavily from salafism. One of controversial idea from Quthb is that a country could be in a state of jahilliyya (pre-islamic) therefore all enlightened muslim should strive to combat the government (ie. jihad).

Quthb was not alone in condemning unislamic govt, modern takfiris (al-Qaidah, ISIS, etc) usually quote others in legitimizing their action.

>salafism
Islamic ideology which espouse idea that muslim should back to Quran and Hadith and follow islam as practiced by first generation muslim (salaf).

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>>2132531
I'll play my game whenever I want! You're not my dad.

I'm sorry, not thousands of thousands. But THOUSANDS MILLIONS churches denominations. They're all different and all of them claim to have the 'Holy Spirit'.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

Do you even know the percentage of the Islamic world? 90% of muslim is Sunni, and the rest are Shia, Wahabbi, ect.

http://www.dummies.com/religion/islam/muslims-adhere-to-different-islamic-sects/

Here we can see that Islam is more united than you Christians.

The Islamic terrorist is 0.01% of the muslim population.

Wanna talk Christians violence? The Ku Kux Klan kill thousands of thousands black peoples. India, Lebanon, Middle Easts, Somalia, Libya, Palestin were at peace until the American to fuck it all up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Don't talk like you Christians are innocent. You're nothing but hypocrite.

>>2132630
Protestantism was a mistake

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>>2132630
Yeah, sorry. Not thousands millions. But tens of thousands denominations. Sorry.

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm

Nevertheless, they're all different and claim to have the 'Holy Spirit'. And that 'spirit' lead them to all different directions, instead of one path.

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>>2132630
>>2132666
It's ok, I think you're beautiful no matter what. You're angry and that's normal. Nobody is attacking you or wanting to hurt you. You do show signs of extreme anxiety, I would guess a form of GAD, but it's normal. You might also have a form of OCD. Again, that is normal. I am sorry for the Christian person who hurt you, but comparing Islam and Christianity isn't fair. We here now didn't have control of their actions in the past and that was a different time. Hell, people thought it was ok to own other people. One group stopped promoting the violence and killing, while the other continues to preach it. You're still a cutie in my book babe!

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>>2132630
Also these countries that you mentioned where never peaceful to began with. Not using that as an excuse but we can't be surprised when a certain group tries to take advantage of others. Side note, Christianity wasn't a major agenda for there European nations when they began colonizing these areas. It was about wealth. You're still a cutie though. ;)

>>2132684
>>2132531
Hey, I'm not the one who started it first. It >>2132531.

>don't have control over group
Agree

>never peaceful to begin with
Yeah, I'm sure the American killing of massive innocent casualties make it more peaceful than before the American came.

But nevertheless, some of the Christians group are terrorists, but most of the are ok.

>>2132708
*most of them

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>>2132678
Oh, and yeah. The Christians still continuing the preaching violence.

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/07/6_modern_day_christian_terrorist_groups_our_media_conveniently_ignores_partner/

>>2132736
*continue preaching and promoting violence

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>>2132736
>>2132740
No where near the scale of Islam. I could grab the statistic but I don't feel like getting it. I don't want to go through the hassle. You're using anecdotal examples. It is impossible for any group to be 100% clean. Everyone has skeletons in their closet, Islam isn't united near as well as Christianity. I would know cutie pie, from Saudi Arabia. There you go again being so cute.

>>2132324

>HOLY
>ROMAN
>EMPIRE

>>2132763
What do you anecdotal? Google it.

>not nearly as untited
Yeah, I'm sure "33000 denominations" Christians is more united than "90% sunni and 10% others" Islam.

'Holy Spirit' did a very good job.

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>>2132708
If your talking about the Middle East itself, then that's a different story altogether. First thing is first, we have to look at the relationship between CIA, ISI, Regan Adminstration, State Deparment, Massoud Khalili, Hekyarmatar, Ahmed Shah Massoud, Prince Turki, William Casey, Bhutto, Saudi Intelligence, Saudi Kingdom, Taliban, Osama Bin Laden, Sudan Government, Muslim Brotherhood, Soviet Union and other Mujahideen key players. I would highly recommend Ghost Wars by Steve Coll and Why Nations Fail. They pretty much sum everything up. Don't feel going through all the information right now but probably will tomorrow if this thread is still up, which I'm assume will. So I'm basically say is that American really isn't has much fault as many think so when it comes dealing with the Middle East.

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>>2132778
I know what you're doing, stop playing dumb for both of us. You say 90% Sunni but that isn't true. That is the foundation of what many believe. Hell, in different Mosques it was preached Women couldn't drive because they'll cause more men to get Jill's while others Mosques would say it was ok. These Mosques would try to different themselves and give themselves different titles. Christian's do the same thing. Again, I'm not saying Christian's aren't divided on specific topics, they are. What I'm disagreeing on is the level and type of violence that is more common in Islamic countries. Fucking hell, many Arabic Muslims don't view other muslims as "real" muslims because they aren't from the holy land. The division is insane. I understand you argument completely cutie pie but I don't think you understand mine, babe.

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>>2132789
Yeah, sure bud. Good job. Thanks. The Middle East is a lot more peaceful with the Western around.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/unworthy-victims-western-wars-have-killed-four-million-muslims-1990-39149394

Oh yeah, the Middle East is not my country.

>>2132802
The statistics don't lie asswipe. Give me link or what you're saying are just hog wash.

Fuck Saudi, I never like them in the first place.

Oh look >>2132630 and >>2132736 for more Christians terrorism.

>>2132804
I'm going to bed now. I tried being reasonable hot cakes. You take care of that sweet stuff momma. You win, I loss. Are you happy sugar?

>>2132817
Sleep well

>>2132816
Bro, you can google it yourself. You're doing this on purpose now. I shouldn't have to hold your hand. I don't feel like getting the information right now. I'm tired and I keep watching Chiraq videos and coming back her. You win brother. You defeated me. Good job m8. Christians are more evil than Muslims.

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>>2132823
Yeah, the fight between two mosque in a country represents the whole muslim community.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. It only a matter of opinion between the Muslim scholars, but not dramatic enough to split into different denominations. Which is a different story in >>2132666.

But again, sleep well.

>>2130158
A lack of diversity in the desert made it easy to unify people into an Empire.

In Europe, which is a peninsula riddled with peninsulas, not so homogeneous.

they do, under the reign of the Pope

>>2132922
Vatican city is not an empire

>>2132927
all christians answer to the Pope

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>>2132996
>All

>>2132996
Anon....

>>2133012
>luthercucks
>christian

>>2132996
Bullshit, that's not what the 'Holy Spirit' told me. Lick my feet.

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>>2133017
>Luther