Philippe Pétain

>>2129046

Hero

>>2129046
More or less both.

>>2129046
>1916: Hero
>1940: traitor

People can change, and history can be complicated

>>2129046
>People in THIS thread think its better to give in to communists than to swallow your pride and let krauts fuck you in the ass.

>>2129046
gave up prematurely. caved to pressure and rounded up jews, even benito resisted rounding up jews.

traitor.

>>2129151
Even Finland didnt round up the jews, even had a jewish division. But keep in mind that Italy and Finland were in a diffrent situation as far as negotiations went. Germany needed Italy and Finland more than they needed Germany. France on the otherhand was more on a "you do it or you cry and do it" since the german army was already there.

That really depends on your philosophy. If you value life above all other values like patriotism, loyalty and freedom than he saved a lot of French people by not resisting foreign occupation. If not, he is responsible for the moral death of France as a nation.

>>2129145
>people think it's better to let foreign fascists occupy and rape your country than dealing with the domestic communists legally

>>2129046
hero

petain is too good for the coward frog fuck
it disgust me how they treated one wo saved their asses in ww1

>>2129046
Hero

Without Pétain, France would have lost at Verdun.

>>2129151
>rounded up jews
Wait... is this a good or a bad thing?

>>2129133
>>2129151
>>2129219

Fuck you, France had not even made up for the population lost in the great war, what makes you think they were prepared at all to fight another one.

Capitulation was the only choice they had to preserve the last vestiges of integrity they're nation had.

>>2129240
>what makes you think they were prepared at all to fight another one.
Germany seemed pretty up to it.

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>>2129163
>Germany needed Finland more than they needed Germany
Not true

>>2129266
I have no idea what youre talking about since the Hitler visit just proves my point further.

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>>2129266
The applied pressure from the finnish front in Eastern front was valuable as in any case though i agree it's a bit of an overstatement to say Germany NEEDED Finland. Also in Winter war they might have suffised the same result without germanys slight assistance since they used Motti tactics pretty efficiently and seized a lot of equipment.

>>2129276
>>2129266

Also listen to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8raDPASvq0

>>2129270
Finland was desperate for the German support. Without German weapons Finnish army would have been in deep shit.

>>2129291
Debatable. The state of arms and lend leases got pretty good even without Germans though they did the most. Finns got loads of weapons and gear from Sweden and Hungary, also the ones they managed to seize from the soviets and produce themselves.

>>2129291
Support is only nececary if youre planning on having a war. Finland always had the option to just start peace talks with the soviets which they eventually did.

>>2129293
Finland hadn't nearly enough anti-tank weaponry.
Without German stug IIIs, panzer IVs panzershcrecks and panzerfausts Finland would have been annexed when Soviets launched their huge attack in 1944.

>>2129307
Peace talks with Soviets was always the last option. You always need to bring Soviets to a position where they can't demand too much. Even after Tali-Ihantala's defensive victories their demands very painful for the Finnish to accept.

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>>2129319
That's true. Didn't think of that.

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>>2129046
Hero.

Travail, famille, patrie, not Liberté, égalité, fraternité, OK?

>>2129046
Did he sent Frenchmen to kill other Frenchmen in order to please the Austrian Assburger?

>>2129258
poor poor France, totally different from Russia Germany and Britain.

Why not both.

>>2129240
No. The choice was not declare war if you are not prepared.

>>2129240
>cry about muh lost culture, muh death of the country by perfidious invading immigrants
>blood enemy rolling in with the tanks is totally fine and you hate your country if you resist
>"""""nationalists""""""

Yeah, he did good in the WW1. How the fuck does it relate with his actions in WW2? If I save your daughter, can I rape her too? Fuck off

>>2129240
As Clausewitz said, head to the mountains.

>>2129046

M E X I C A N