Late Middle Ages who was more powerful, Holy Roman Empire or

>>2121846

The question doesn't even really make sense. Feudal "states" don't work the same way a modern state does. You didn't really have a lot of institutional power.

Let's say, hypothetically, in 1454, "France" and the HRE go to war over something or other. Neither Frederick the Third nor Charles the Seventh had huge armies personally loyal to them, supported by taxes of the state, a la an absolute monarchy.

Instead, they have a bewildering array of nobles, all of whom have their own manors, estates, and private armies, some of whom would be contributing men to the fight, some of whom would be contributing money to the fight (to hire mercenaries or just buy supplies), and all of whom have a huge laundry list of excuses as to why not to help out if they don't feel their interests are best served by it.

Because things are so much less stable, you have a lot more direct input by the monarch, insofar as his personal abilities to get the people who hold the bulk of the resources of the kingdom on board with whatever policy or war he's contemplating. The ability to mobilize the stuff of the realm is tiny back then, and as such, direct comparisons between "states" is almost impossible.

>>2121846
Germany wins hands down, as always! France just cannot compete.

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>>2121883

Debate dominated.
Frenchfags BTFO

>>2121870
Thanks a lot for your reply. I have a habit of forgetting many kingdoms are just collections of different nobles and various states.

>>2121883
France rip

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>>2121846
Judging by who cucked who, I'd say France was stronger

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>>2121846
Is that even a question?

>>2121919
The HRE had Francophone territory for centuries, France ruled German lands for ~10 years, save for Alsace which is now in French posession only because of Anglos

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>>2121919
>tfw the country labeled Roman Empire is actually the Byzantine Empire

>>2121929
>1213-1214
>Late middle ages
Seriously, why is /his/ one of the most uneducated boards in matters of history?

>>2121870
This.

>>2121870
Except that Charles VII did have a personal semi permanent army of crossbowmen in 1454, drawn from all over France, the formation of which really helped him to drive the English out, if you were talking about around 1400ish though you would be correct