Origins of the English people

>>2112230
No, Old English was a North Sea Germanic dialect.

German has it's origins in the vicinity of the Alps.

>>2112230
Old Anglo-Saxon is a Germanic language. German is also a Germanic language. English is a modern language, namely old English raped to oblivion by old French.

>posting in a low quality thread
>google could have told you that in 2 minutes
>kys OP

>>2112254
Eh, there are a lot of words derived from French but it's possible to go long stretches without really using them. I'm reading Bill Brysons' book on it just now, I'd recommend.

>>2112230
The closest modern descendant would be Frisian.

>>2112241
This. If anything, it's closer to old norse than g*rman.

>>2112285
>Eh, there are a lot of words derived from French but it's possible to go long stretches without really using them. I'm reading Bill Brysons' book on it just now, I'd recommend.

>derived possible recommend.

Rapebaby confirmed!

>>2112241
>>2112290
But this is bullshit.

>>2112285
>The closest modern descendant would be Frisian.
And this is correct.

>>2112296
No it isn't.

>>2112305
Yes, it is. Look up "Anglo-Frisian languages" and see what you find.

>>2112309
Anglo-Frisian is North Sea Germanic, retard.

>>2112319
It's a branch of the West Germanic language family. Stop spreading misinformation.

>>2112321
How am I spreading misinformation?

Isn't Old English a Celtic language?

>>2112322
You keep insisting tha English is a North Germanic language when it very clearly isn't. North Germanic influence =/= part of the North Germanic language family. You sound like one of those retards that thinks English is a Romance language because it has French vocabulary.

>>2112325
North Sea Germanic =/= North Germanic

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>>2112324
>Anglo-Saxon
>Celtic
I'm done with this thread. Peace

>>2112327
But aren't Anglo-Saxons only a minority on the southeast coast?

>>2112326
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingvaeonic_languages
Fuck off.

>>2112291
Well no, cause I'm Scottish.

But even then, actual Norman heritage is mainly limited to the old aristocracy.

>>2112328
How the fuck did you even come up with this bullshit? Are you a fucking Irish wewuzzer?

>>2112328
No. And at any rate, they dominated England culturally.

So English is based on western Germanic languages like they where spoken on the cost of Frisia and added lots old French vocabulary.

>>2112344
Basically yes.

>>2112336
Like the Normans then?

>>2112344
More or less. There was also some influence from Old Norse - the grammar became heavily simplified and several loanwords were introduced into the language.

>>2112349
*several hundred loanwords

>>2112230
Well yes, Britain is composed of a base of Celtic peoples who were supplanted by Anglos, Saxons, and Jutes from Denmark and Germany, with significant genetic influence from Norwegian Viking raids on the eastern side of the Island, with additional genetic and linguistic influence by Frankish and Roman occupiers.

As far as European countries go, it's quite a mix

>>2112334
What? I'm czech
>>2112336
Yes but i mean genetically, and how could a small population in the corner, make the entirety of England suddenly drop their language without war/re-population/subjugation

>>2112347
No. Norman culture was restricted to the aristocracy and died out in the 1400s.

>>2112364
>Yes but i mean genetically, and how could a small population in the corner, make the entirety of England suddenly drop their language without war/re-population/subjugation

We don't know. But it did happen, one only has to look at the prevalence of Old English to know that.

Doesn't it fuck with anyone else that the language we speak has been around for such a short period of time?

Fucking Oxford has been around nearly twice as long.

>>2112364
First of all, genetic studies of the English prove that the Anglo-Saxons aren't a "minority" in England in any way, shape, or form. This is further supported by the course of early Anglo-Saxon history, in which several Anglo-Saxon petty kingdoms - stretching from Northumbria in modern-day Northern England to Wessex in the south - vied for dominance prior to the Great Heathen Army's invasion of Northern England. The Celtic population was utterly decimated and those that didn't assimilate into Anglo-Saxon society were forced west into Wales and Cornwall, which remained independent until after William the Conqueror's invasion.

>>2112379
Correction - Wales was only subjugated after William the Conqueror's invasion. Cornwall fell well before then

>>2112230
>another "Germanic = German" retard thread

>>2112370
Yet, still to this very day, you speak partially French. So their cultural impact likely was bigger than you are willing to admit.

>>2112461
OP is Czech and not very bright, cut him some slack

>>2112467
I'm not OP, i was just curious, don't be a dick

>>2112467
So a Kraut in denial, not surprising.

>>2112461
you aren't fooling anybody, Ernst

>>2112466
Not really. We have some loanwords. But, again, it's possible to speak English without using them at all.

You guys need a chill pill, here's Eddie Izzard buying a cow off a Frisian farmer only speaking old English.
https://youtu.be/OeC1yAaWG34

>>2112379
thats bullshit,

Genetic tests show that even in southwestern England Saxons contributed less than half of the genetic makeup and there was no "Celtic" population the Celts were a hotchpotch of genetically distinct groups sharing culture and language.

>Fine-scale genetic variation between human populations is interesting as a signature of historical demographic events
and because of its potential for confounding disease studies. We use haplotype-based statistical methods to analyse
genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) data from a carefully chosen geographically diverse sample of
2,039 individuals from the United Kingdom. This reveals a rich and detailed pattern of genetic differentiation with
remarkable concordance between genetic clusters and geography. The regional genetic differentiation and differing
patterns of shared ancestry with 6,209 individuals from across Europe carry clear signals of historical demographic
events. We estimate the genetic contribution to southeastern England from Anglo-Saxon migrations to be under half,
and identify the regions not carrying genetic material from these migrations. We suggest significant pre-Roman but
post-Mesolithic movement into southeastern England from continental Europe, and show that in non-Saxon parts of
the United Kingdom, there exist genetically differentiated subgroups rather than a general ‘Celtic’ population.

source:http://www.nature.com.sci-hub.io/nature/journal/v519/n7543/full/nature14230.html

>>2113609
this

haploautists saw eupedia maps of Europe and assumed that meant GERMANIC BRITANNIA

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>>2112230

>Old English was a dialect of German, am I wrong?

English is part of the Anglo-Frisian branch of the Germanic language family, however over the past millenium it has picked up a lot of words from Latin and French. The most closely related surviving lanaguage to English is Frisian. (unless you count Scots, that discussion is a whole other kettle of fish)

>So, are English people basically ancient Krauts who invaded and colonized Britannia?

Language doesn't tell the full story of the origins of a people. The British Isles have been invaded and colonised repetedly throughout history, which each successive group of invaders contributing to the genepool of the people of the islands. The effect each group has had varies depending on which geographical area you look at. This page gives a brief rundown and you might find it interesting; https://wellcome.ac.uk/press-release/who-do-you-think-you-really-are-first-fine-scale-genetic-map-british-isles

>>2112230

English people are technically more Celtic than the Scots, Welsh and Irish since SE England was exposed to the Belgae tribes and the majority of significant Celtic art finds were discovered in England.

Most people mean "British Isles" when they say "Celtic" - bulky, pale skin, wavy hair etc.

Because the Irish are "Celts" in the same way that English are "Saxons" ; language soreads under the auspices of a warrior elite who intermarry and in the end leave small genetic impact.

>>2112285
>but it's possible to go long stretches without really using them.

Even in one sentence it's very hard not to use any, you really need to cherrypick your words carefully
It's probably impossible to make a whole text that way as some words (such as "use") have no non-French equivalents

>>2112291
You forgot "long", "really" and "using" senpai

>>2112354
>with additional genetic and linguistic influence by Frankish and Roman occupiers.
>Frankish

You can say "French", you know?
As far as I know, frogs dominated England from 1066 to 1485, long after the fall of the Frankish Empire
Using "Franks" instead of "French" for the inhabitants of West Francia anytime past the 10th century is retarded

>>2112354
As European countries go, it's pretty fucking homogeneous. Cultural labels like celt, saxon, viking are shown to be incredibly superficial when you look at the genetics.

Roughly three quarters of the genepool is directly inherited from the first stone age peoples to repopulate the British Isles after the last ice-age, and most of the rest is from Britain's immediate neighbours on the continent. Like, just the people right on the shore opposite Britain. Compare this to Eastern Europe, which has had Steppe nomads from as far away from Korea riding all over it, and southern European countries like Portugal and Spain which have had North African admixture (don't even get me started on Greece), and Britain is one of the most homogeneous countries in Europe, if not the world.

>>2112737
>>2112466

English is a resolutely Germanic language but it wouldn't be "English" without the French and Latin. It is possible to string together a sentence with only Germanic words (which would be impossible to meaningfully do with French ones), but you'd sound incredibly off to a normal speaker.

It's pretty well known but Poul Anderson's short essay "Uncleftish Beholding" is the poster child example of Germanic linguistic purism in English; Poul attempts to use only Germanic-root words but he is unable to do it 100%, because there are some essential French words that have so entirely supplanted their Germanic equivalents that no viable substitute existed.

>>2114919
>long

>>2112325
jesus christ you're retarded nobody was talking about north germanic language you fucking dipshit

>>2112329
you just fucked yourself

>>2114962

>Roughly three quarters of the genepool is directly inherited from the first stone age peoples to repopulate the British Isles after the last ice-age

This is an urban myth. Nowhere in Eurasia does genetic continuity extend that far back to that degree.
In Britain it could be as little as a few % if not 0%.

>>2112372

I don't know about that, anon. Middle English is perfectly comprehensible.

>>2115758
I doubt that.

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>>2115758
>I don't know about that, anon. Middle English is perfectly comprehensible.
'no'

>>2115764
>>2115787

http://youtu.be/QE0MtENfOMU

It's practically modern English with a Scandie accent.

>>2115824
That's right at the end of the Middle English period and still far from being perfectly comprehensible.

>>2115758
>>2115824
Middle English is the English spoken after the French cucked the language though
Old English is indecipherable gibberish

>>2115849

I know, anon! The post that I'd responded to said that Oxford University had been around practically twice as long as English as we know it (which is perfectly true if we take it to mean that we could only understand modern English), but I'm arguing that Middle English is easily understood by modern speakers and hence, "our language" IS, at least, as old as Oxford. ;^>

>>2115845
http://youtu.be/cyNEhEJOr8w

WELL, this then.
'Perfectly' was a turn of phrase, hbbi. Middle English is MOSTLY comprehensible and close to WHOLLY comprehensible once one understands a few key differences.

>>2115911
This is about 5% comprehensible to me. The Canterbury Tales prologue was about 80% comprehensible.

>>2112290
>Old Norse, a North Germanic language, is closer to Old English, a West Germanic language, than German, another West Germanic language

good luck with that laddy

>>2112319
>Anglo-Frisian
>North Germanic

Idiot.

>>2115930
Oh look, another retard.

>>2115932
Joke's on you, retard, North Sea Germanic isn't a language subfamily. Your choices are North Germanic, West Germanic, and East Germanic. Which one do you want?

Holy shit you're stupid.

>>2112230
Also, most English people are far more Briton than Anglo-Saxon or anything else. The Anglo-Saxons took control and did some colonizing, but mostly just lighlty intermarried.