What do you think of Neo-pagans, /his/?

>>2110855

I think there is no connection between Druidism and Stonehenge

>>2110855
If they're pagans for cultural/political reasons, they're cosplaying faggots. If they're pagans because they truly believe in the old gods, then they're based.

As far as I can tell, the Kekists are the only true believers in paganism.

>>2110874
Second

>>2110864
I'd be surprised if such a significant landmark hadn't been recycled by successive cults, druidism included.

>>2110874
Sort of halfway with you. Educated pagans in the Mediterranean world had a more sophisticated understanding of the gods, they thought of them as concepts or forms that could be appreciated/paid tribute to on occasion. But didn't literally believe Zeus threw down the thunder and whatnot.

I don't think it's shameful to believe in paganism for cultural reasons necessarily but there has to be a majority of genuine believers, otherwise the whole exercise is simply an isolated group kidding themselves. With the complete death of the original European religions I think it's too much of a stretch for most people to just get right back to worship, you would think the old gods would have done something or sent a message of some kind if they cared.

LARPers. It's like digging up your dead dog and taking it for a walk.

>>2110855
Depends on the Neopagan.

>>2110874
>As far as I can tell, the Kekists are the only true believers in paganism.
Aren't they only pagans for cultural (shitpostchan) and political (muh gawdemprah) reasons, though?

>>2110914
>Educated pagans... didn't literally believe Zeus threw down the thunder and whatnot.
The elites in every time and place tend to have a cynical view of religion, but I'm not sure you can discount the ritual and belief of the masses based on that.

Maybe the elites are clued in to a hidden truth that god/gods are not actually real, but maybe they're just prone towards materialism because they have more in this world than most do.

>>2110874
Kekists are monotheists though

what they're doing is exactly as valid as what any other religion is doing
after all try to bring up any argument to discredit them that can't be applied to another religion

>>2110950
Henotheistic. The Kekists say Moloch, Minerva, and a host of other gods are real. They just only care about their interactions with Kek (And Kauket, I guess).

>>2110950
Can you be a monotheist if you follow a god who belongs to a polytheistic pantheon?

>>2110974
I can get behind that. Minerva and Janus were always my favorite gods.

>>2110983
But Minerva is one of the bad guys in Kekism.

I mean, I guess if you're down with being a mindless slave and eating babies and all that shit she's not but whatevs

>>2110982
I don't think so? You would have to deny that the other gods in the pantheon existed or at least that they aren't worthy of worship. It would be like a radical cult of Jupiter insisting that myths that feature the other gods are lies. If you just chose to focus exclusively on worshiping one god within a pantheon that you also believe existed, it's just polytheism with a focus.

>>2110989
C'mon this is Rome, not Carthage.

>>2110974
Yeah, like how the Romans believed Celtic gods were real, but just didn't worship them.

Anyway, though, Kekists are just joking.

>>2111007
>Kekists are just joking
for now

>>2111007
Slenderman was just a joke but he eventually got a real sacrifice now didn't he?

You'll see, the frogs will rise.

>>2110989
I don't get how Minerva is supposed to be a bad guy. Moloch I guess has some connection with abortion? But Minerva? Is it because she's female and wise? What a retarded cosmology.

laughable at best, embarrassing at worst

>>2111041
Minerva is seen as evil because of the owl idol at the Bohemian Grove tying her cult to the globalist elite.

>>2111099
Who cares about that fruitcake, nutbasket, shit-artist.

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>>2111105
Oh come on now he could be reasonable on occasion.

>>2111108
>polytheism
>logical

Oh boi

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQw83_zpbJg

>>2111164
Based St Boniface

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>>2111172
RIP Wynfrith †

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygPoHMXFFbI

>>2111150

They're both savages?

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>>2111192
Are you Jewish?

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>>2111199

No, I just hate Germans.

>>2111205
Fuck off Nigel

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>>2111205
We understand.

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>>2111215

>>2110855
alwas either
>hipster faggots
or
>neo nazis

na thanks

>>2110855
A parody of a real religion, hopeless romantics dreaming of a past which never was.

>>2111007
>Anyway, though, Kekists are just joking.
Intent is intent, and when you put it out there, something is going to answer back. They think it's all jokes and shitposts, but I can see the storm coming.

Of course, when anything with the word "pagan" comes into a discussion, the christfags and atheistfags come out of woodwork to shit all over the thread. Like right now.

>>2110855
Most of them are delusional or wishful thinkers. They're trying to reconstruct dead religions which have little evidence for their beliefs or practices. Doing it for semi-serious LARPing is ok I guess, but people who actually believe them are wilfully blinding themselves to the lack of continuity.

I don't really have a problem with them though, they're no different from any other loose spirituality/religion so let them have their fun.

>>2110874
>>2110950
>>2110974
>>2110983
>>2111007
kek is a fad that will fade after about two years rather like the roman mystery cults of yore

PROTIP: you need scripture and a hierarchy to last as an organized religion

>>2110855
I like how their mere existence leaves christains buttblasted

>>2113449
Christianity had neither for the first ~200 years of its existence, same with Buddhism and Judaism, yet all three are still here.

Given that Kekism came about, what, less than a year ago, you should wait a bit longer before you go on your NO FUN ALLOWED tirade. But be careful, if you wait too long you much have some fun for once!

>>2113469
>implying Christianity didn't have the Gospels before the end of the first century AD and you can equate the oral traditions that led to Buddhism or Judaism to retards memeing online solely to piss pedantic people off

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>>2111150
They looked more like pic related, but nice try.

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>>2113515
>3rd - 4th century AD

That man you posted may have been a Christian.

Tacitus described the Germanics as being naked barbarians back in the 1st century however.

>>2113474

What's the difference between retards memeing online and retards memeing offline?

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>>2110855

You forget about russian neopagans aka Poднoвepы, that are pathetic as fuck

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>>2113531
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari_native_religion
Ironically, there are still legit pagans in Russia, but they aren't slavic role playing ones.

>>2113445
>They're trying to reconstruct dead religions which have little evidence for their beliefs or practices

This is mostly true for Germanic religions and extremely true for Celtic but I think there's enough of a surviving body of literature to resurrect Greco-Roman Paganism. But for whatever reason that is by far the least popular strain of neo-bagan.

>>2113561
>But for whatever reason that is by far the least popular strain of neo-pagan.
I concur. I'm a Neo-Pagan that worships Pan (my mother and father worshiped Pan when I was younger, and you know, religion), and all I see is Celts and Nordic Neo-Pagan's. Fucking ridiculous if you ask me.

>>2113561
The reason here is exactly that. Why follow some kind of well documented religion when following of random feels food speculations is just a more fun?

>>2113548
Reminds me of playing TW: Empire and starting a spree of conquest towards Istanbul and spreading Orthodoxy all the way while the back end of my country is 75% animalism.

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>>2113526
>>3rd - 4th century AD
>That man you posted may have been a Christian.

The Alemannic people were Christianized during the 7th century, under Frankish rule, so no.

>Tacitus described the Germanics as being naked barbarians
Which may have been exaggerated.

Orthodoxy>Orthopraxy any day. Of course, people should be allowed to believe what they believe, but most wiccans/neopagans that I have seen seem to do it for an Identity or a "muh white heritage" thing, not that that is exclusive to neopagans though.

>>2113619
>but most wiccans/neopagans that I have seen seem to do it for an Identity or a "muh white heritage" thing
You're sadly right. The vast majority of white supremacist Neo-Pagans I've seen come from the Nordic line (known as Asatru). Wiccans, I dislike wiccans. Bunch of fucking quicky witches, just as bad as reborn Christians.

>>2113646
Wicca comes off as Tumblr: The Religion. Borrowing, at most, terminology from Celtic religions and half-cooked legends of witches made up by paranoid Christians. There's all this "sacred feminine" bullshit that really seems like it sprouted out of the god awful new-age movement of the early 20th century rather than having any ancient heritage. And yeah they're all weird as fuck.

>>2110855
Why the fuck are Celtic druidists at Stonehenge? Stonehenge is way before the Celtic IE migrations.

>>2113665
What about sacred male religion? There should be one for that.

>>2111124
Loki wasn't a god you revered though. He was a trickster and was in conflict with Thor who everyone had a boner for.

>>2110855
They are disrespectful towards the people they are emulating by many of them not doing research into the practices, and lack of knowledge pertaining to them, and instead hopping on bandwagons invented by new age cult leaders.

>it's OK for Christians to believe Genesis was an allegory even though there's no reason to think it wasn't meant as such
>it's not OK for pagans to view aspects of their religion as allegorical even though you could make sound philosophical arguments for the gods as archetypes much like Platonic forms

/his/ everyone.

>>2113748
Shut up retard, platonic forms weren't even known to uneducated pagans. Only with christianity real education comes.

I dunno, I think polytheistic claims of the divine make more sense than monotheistic ones, and I really don't see the inherent value in reconstructing authentic ritualism, as all spiritual practices start somewhere.

>>2111099
>>2111104
>>2111108
>>2111113
>>2111117
>>2111124
>>2111134
>>2111136
>>2111139
>>2111143
>>2111143
>>2111148
>>2111150
>>2111153
>>2111155
>>2111159
>>2111164
>>2111179
They stir up Christian shitposters on /his/, that's for sure. I wonder if the people that post this crap are aware that they mostly just make their own side look like assholes more than anything, since your average poster is smart enough to know what cherry picking is.

>>2113760
But the average peasant under Christianity was still illiterate and uneducated.

The flourishing of Germanic society following Christianity is entirely a product of it coinciding with a major climate shift and the decline of the Mediterranean empires. The introduction of parchment to the region explains the sudden increase in book production.

>>2110982
>Can you be a monotheist if you follow a god who belongs to a polytheistic pantheon?
Monolatry is the appropriate way of doing it.

>>2113619
>Orthodoxy>Orthopraxy any day.
The obsession with orthodoxy kills.

>>2113762
Monothestic claims make more sence if you didn't specify them i.e. generalised deism and so on. All specified claims have more sense in a polytheism. You can pretty simply conclude, that there can be one and only one highest power but to believe in a Jesus to be the only one true manifestation of it is much harder, because this seems to be volunatry.

>>2113804
I think polytheism makes more sense due to the process of conflict you see in nature all around us. There are several actors at work each trying to accomplish their aims and taking from each in the process of so doing.

>>2113794
>The obsession with orthodoxy kills.

Please explain further

I just can't see how one can practice a religion that's centered on rituals and the like and not on word and logic. For example, the Celts in Britain sacrificed so many men on the retreat from Caesar, but that didn't stop them from getting conquered.

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>>2113823
>I just can't see how one can practice a religion that's centered on rituals and the like and not on word and logic

>mfw a christfag says this to me

>>2113836

Again, please explain your thinking and not just greentext like a tard.

Does having thoughts about the ancient gods often mean someone believes in them? The concept troubles me a lot, I think I ponder over deities too much to keep considering myself agnostic.

I have some conflicting thoughts about this whole matter though. I worry if I start identifying as polytheist or anything of the sort it's gonna be perceived as an act of being a special snowflake.

>>2110855

Catholics. Can't stand 'em.

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>>2113760
>Only with christianity real education comes.
>shutting down ancient pagan academies
>burning temples that were used to store literature
>outright destruction of libraries
>forgeries and book burnings
>Only with christianity real education comes.


Now of course, Pagans engaged in a lot of this as well and we hopefully don't need to discuss the church's role in the founding of universities. But let's not be fucking stupid with our claims.

>>2113823

Thats what religion is about.

>>2113823
Explain what?

That you murder less people if you don't have a doctrine that commands you to murder people over theological differences?

>how one can practice a religion that's centered on rituals and the like
>not on word and logic
Try living in a Catholic country like I do.

Millions don't read a single thing, ever, and don't even know how to be orthodox, they just show up for Confession, Mass including the Holy Communion every Sunday.

Attempting to turn each participant into an amateur philosopher of religion, theologian, or apologist is a modern development in the history of religion.

Most of us are pagans, even if we don't want to admit it.

>decorating pine trees with images of idols before telling our children that a magical fat man who lives at the North Pole will bring them presents and then feasting on ham and praying to saints

Don't even get me started on Easter.

What actually is a Neo-pagan, anyway?

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>>2110855

Mage the Ascension LARP-ers without a GM/Storyteller.

>>>/TG/

Seriously, at best they are seeking meaning and are dissatisfied with logic alone.

Religion is at best a tool to understand the use of meaning and the creation of purpose.

The trick is in accepting that we as individuals must either accept the mantle of meaning-maker or marry ourselves to the premise of a pre-existing entity to provide the purpose for our deeds.

Often people indulge in the mistake of viewing that which is more arcane or obscure as that which is more authoritative; especially when fleeing the general consensus of the general population. It gives the ego more room to breathe and experiment with the truth, and this is not entirely unhealthy.

But as has been said before, if you are already fine with flaunting convention to pursue the dubious. And you have the courage to do so regardless of social costs, why not invent your own cosmology and see if it does you any good; then share it with your friends for the lulz.

At least one "one true religion" has done this in the past and it worked out great for them.

I would likewise argue every meme that ever flourished was born of this process and understanding.

Seriously there are better, healthier, more rewarding ways to play with the truth without descending into the worst abuses of SJWs claiming offense to the arcane ways of a obfuscated minority.

>>>/TG/

>>2114075
So what you're saying is, Order of Hermes is the best tradition?

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>>2113607
Theodric was a Christian and ruled in the 5th century.

The Germanics began to be Christianized in the 4th century which is why they had Christian kings by the 5th.

>>2114073
>What actually is a Neo-pagan, anyway?

Modern-day pagan converts of various stripes in Abrahamic dominated countries.

>>2114075
>GM
why would i want my general manager to participate in blood sacrifices with me?

>>2114392
Game Master. Basically king dork.

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>>2114075
> LARP-ers
I literally follow Lathander's Dogma in real life. Not even trolling. Just read it oneday and decided that this sounds perfect enough to follow, to the end of my life. I doesn't even care if this is fictional deity, because I like all specific things that it stands for.

>>2114427
>The Morning Lord
Could do a lot worse, desu, 7/10 fictional Godform.

>>2114032
>That you murder less people if you don't have a doctrine that commands you to murder people over theological differences?

People have killed each other for religious reasons with or without scripture, see the Roman imperial cult for an example.

>Millions don't read a single thing, ever, and don't even know how to be orthodox, they just show up for Confession, Mass including the Holy Communion every Sunday.

That goes for fucking anything on this earth, just because the majority doesn't truly follow that doesn't mean there aren't those that are. As an American I live in a place where most outwardly "religious" folk sin more than your average "heathen", but that doesn't mean everyone is like that. Perhaps logic was the wrong word to use, maybe something like reason is better? the point was that Celtic/Nordic/Greco-Roman religions did not have any real reason to rituals, at least as far as I know, aside from "Zeus/Thor whatever will be upset if we don't", such Religions seem to rely on an Active God/Gods to truly make sense. I don't know if I've been unaware or something but I don't think I've seen Demeter or Artemis or Dagda or whoever have made their presence known and actively chastised their former adherents. The Abrahamic religions at least have a cop-out for such a shortfalling.

>>2114441
There's no reason to any of Christianity's rituals. All of the philosophy and shit associated with them is a post-hoc rationalization.

>>2114480
Not true, Jesus explicitly commands baptism (Mt 28:19) and the eucharist (Lk 22:14-23).

>>2114502
Which is no different from "Zeus/Thor will be upset if we don't."

>>2114480
I wasn't talking about Christianity at all however, more about Religions without scripture or Theology.

>>2114541
I think all religions start out there at some point. Personally I'd really like to see some neo-pagan theologians happen.

>>2114480

You misspelled Catholicism. Again. I'm starting to think you're a little slow.

>>2114502

Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Communion in remembrance of what he did for us.

What you people do is an abomination.

>>2114507

Why do you care what Adam or Tammuz have to say about it?

Oh, I get it. You don't know that all pagan nonsense stems from real actual people.

>>2114507
The reason to follow those rituals is because the LORD commanded it and the LORD is sovereign unlike Zeus and Thor.

>>2114554
I'd honestly love to see some too, especially Greco-Roman wise, But I think any written from the neopagan/wiccan crowd wouldn't necessarily be that interesting, would love to be proven wrong though.

>>2114507
It is a little different, at least in the fact that God doesn't give you a bad harvest or whatever because you didn't take communion. My point I was trying to get across was that for a lot of polytheistic(again as far as I know) work on a kinda quid pro quo sense, A "you sacrifice a bull I give you security" kinda deal, which falls apart in our age now that we see that the world doesn't fall apart if we don't sacrifice men on an altar or burn grain for the Gods.

>>2114594
>which falls apart in our age now that we see that the world doesn't fall apart if we don't sacrifice men on an altar or burn grain for the Gods.

Well, you'd think so, but people do all kinds of shit for a measure of health and security that doesn't really have any correlation to those. Magnet bracelets for instance.

>>2114566
How Zeus is not sovereign?

>>2114616
He is a created being.

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>>2114594
>the neopagan/wiccan crowd wouldn't necessarily be that interesting


Andrew D. Chumbley (September 15, 1967 – September 15, 2004) was an English practitioner and theorist of magic, and a writer, poet and artist. He was Magister of the UK-based magical group Cultus Sabbati.

At the time of his death Chumbley was working on his doctorate in the history of religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_D._Chumbley
http://xoanon.co.uk/
https://threehandspress.com/
https://mega.nz/#F!kNZVmZoY!yZzTozqFeVDWu77BS4dWSQ

>>2114594
>I'd honestly love to see some too, especially Greco-Roman wise, But I think any written from the neopagan/wiccan crowd wouldn't necessarily be that interesting, would love to be proven wrong though.

I think Germanic neopagan theologians would be quite interesting because a big theme of Germanic Paganism seems to be the fallibility and doomed nature of the gods.

>>2114613
That's absolutely true, but the idea that magical crystals or whatever have an actual tangible affect on one's well being aside from a placebo affect is easily proven false. Also, nobody says the sun won't rise because you didn't eat that royal jelly or whatever.

>>2114635
Thanks, gonna read up on this.

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>>2114646
I've got most of the older texts in the library. They've picked up the pace of their publishing cycles tho.

>>2114646
>That's absolutely true, but the idea that magical crystals or whatever have an actual tangible affect on one's well being aside from a placebo affect is easily proven false. Also, nobody says the sun won't rise because you didn't eat that royal jelly or whatever.

Fair enough. I think if it were to exist, it would probably focus on a psychological angle or on events so complicated that nobody outside of the sciences would understand them well enough to divorce the connection entirely.

Going back to Christianity, its rituals are distinctly an outgrowth of a religion where the reason to follow it was "we do this or God makes bad shit happen to us." It's all over the old testament. In fact I would say the biggest change in character with God between the OT and the NT is not him becoming more loving and merciful (because he's not; eternal torture is vastly worse than just up and destroying you) but that the consequences of following him or disobeying him change from strictly material (Solomon is made wealthy for asking for wisdom, which is good to the Lord; 42 kids are killed by bears for making fun of Elisha's baldness) to post-life and spiritual.

Which I would say is a problem of neo-paganism in general, in that they're trying to jam a religion of a different mindset into a modern one. This is why I personally don't see the fuss about authentic ritualism, because any such religion would necessarily have to made anew for our current society and views on reality.

In short, I get what you're getting at.

>>2114678
>Going back to Christianity, its rituals are distinctly an outgrowth of a religion where the reason to follow it was "we do this or God makes bad shit happen to us."

Actually its a little more interesting than that, Most of Early Christianity's rituals were based off of Judaic rituals "designed"(or more appropriately said; evolved) to keep a community cohesive. Stuff was changed to accommodate new converts (Such as circumcision into Baptism), but on the whole is was markedly similar to Judaism in that the rituals were designed to keep a community together in the presence of gentiles and to keep ritual purity among believers.

For the last point I feel that when most people have an issue with neopaganism its at the thought of people basically role-playing and consequently grossly misinterpreting religions that we/they know little about in order to act like "epic vikings".

Sorry for drawing this out.

>>2113666
It's cooler than congregating in mistletoe forests

>>2114729
>Sorry for drawing this out.

No problem. I'm enjoying the discussion.

>For the last point I feel that when most people have an issue with neopaganism its at the thought of people basically role-playing and consequently grossly misinterpreting religions that we/they know little about in order to act like "epic vikings".

Yeah. I'd wager that this is something of the core of it. Either someone looking to get a little of Lord of the Rings in their life, or the muh heritage crowd.

I feel that this kind of polytheistic theology has potential, but I know damn well I don't have the philosophical or historical chops to get that job done. I hope to some day, but I know I don't right now.

>>2110855
Retards LARPing as pagans for political reasons.
If they actually believed it I would think better of them.

>>2114960

Why? Why is a genuine retard better than someone pretending to be a retard to troll other retards?

>>2113449
Kek brings forth materially observable results. Hell, Kek has physically manifested on several occasions.

I feel like we're in the stage of Kekism that Christianity was in during the life of Jesus.

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>>2115019
> Kek has physically manifested
How? Meme dubs are digital ones.

>>2115052
Hillary coughed up two frogs on camera. She got dubs, and it was frogs. Kek confirmed.

>>2110874
>If they're pagans for cultural/political reasons, they're cosplaying faggots. If they're pagans because they truly believe in the old gods, then they're regular faggots.

FTFY