Why didn't Europe develop martial arts traditions that continued

>>2096763
They did develop marital arts, boxing fencing and wrestling are sport versions that survive tot he modern day.

>>2096763
They did, though.

>>2096769
but they're stripped off its historical and spiritual aspects

The European martial tradition died out after the two wars. The French tried to maintain savate and sabre for a while, but the people were really over anything combat related.

Yet another thing you can thank Germany for.

>>2096881
did they though? alot of the equiptment is modernized, but you'd be hard pressed to find a martial arts school that uses authentic asian monk robes. That's also operating under the assumption that the specific type of martial art you're studying is tied to any sort of religious movement, which a lot of martial arts aren't

>>2096881
boxing and wrestling are spiritual but just not in that chinky gook way

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But a European did invent martial arts and got the slants to copy it. Bodhidharma is always represented in art with non-oriental physiognomy.

>>2096921
I love getting spiritual in another man's asshole

>>2096963
Persia isn't Europe.

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>>2096908
>Yet another thing you can thank Germany for.

what's that supposed to mean

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>>2096921
boxing and wrestling aren't even practical

and sir I find your ignorance appalling

>>2096967
>>>/lgbt/

>>2097014
>boxing and wrestling aren't even practical

>>2097014
jab jab cross is way more practical than crane kick hummingbird style or whatever the f*ck they do over in chingchong land

>>2096963
The theory that Asian marital arts began with Bodhidharma is widely dismissed.

>>2096763
Because of shooty shooty bang bang

>>2097032
not really

look

in boxing you only punch and you wear big poofy gloves

if kicks to the nuts are considered or grappling or strikes to small pressure points or any kick really it's useless

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>>2097023
boxing is a sport

it's all about how much you can pump your arms
it's like high speed weightlifting

and as for wrestling
jiu jutsu nd even judo are superior in every way

it would take a long time to explain exactly why but basically the more restrictions you place on the participants the less martial it is

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>>2097048
>in boxing you only punch and you wear big poofy gloves

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>>2097062
well that's true isn't it

are you high

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>>2097088
big poofy gloves are a relatively recent development

>>2097061
>it's all about how much you can pump your arms
>it's like high speed weightlifting
Just when I think /his/ can't be any more wrong, you state some dumb shit like this.

>>2097099
yeah well to that I say bare-knuckle boxing is a little better than gloves boxing

>>2097105
>Just when I think /his/ can't be any more wrong, you state some dumb shit like this.
Just when I think /his/ can't be any more wrong, you state some dumb shit like this.

>>2097061
By that standard the most "martial" martial arts would be ones like Jeet Kune Do and Krav Maga that are less than a 100 year old.

>>2097117
boxing is boxing

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>>2097130
Indeed!

>>2097146
Is that a fact

>>2097130
Most martial arts are less than a hundred years old and most do not predate the industrial revolution. Only a few are really early modern or medieval in any sense

>>2097061
Jesus Christ. Get into a fight first and tell me which martial art you want. In any fight on the street boxing will win. You need serious understanding of Judo or Jiu Jitsu to be effective, you'll look like a retard otherwise.

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>>2097161
yes it is

>>2097004
Germany is responsible for all evils in this world.

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>>2097167
well that's debatable

I guess for most retards boxing would be your best bet

But why aren't all the MMA champions boxers

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>>2097185
>why aren't all the snowboard champions skateboarders

>>2097185
or ufc champions
that;s what I meant
ufc

You'd lose pretty quickly if you only punched in ufc

>>2097191
>>2097194
yeah

opps

>>2097198
this

>>2097048

>in boxing you only punch and you wear big poofy gloves

You've never been punched in the mouth, have you? I dare you to go to a boxing gym and say that shit to a seasoned boxer.

We'll see how comfy those mitts are.

>>2097306
you've never been punched in the throat have you

I dare you to go to a gym and have a professional boxer punch you there

then get him to take off the gloves and don't sue me

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>>2097306
getting punched in the mouth is no big deal

it's a little uncomfortable and girly boys are scared of loosing their teeth but it's not even a vital point or anything

>>2097185

Most if not all MMA fighters have a standing game.

>You'd lose pretty quickly if you only punched in ufc

You'd lose pretty quickly if you never punched in UFC.
MMA is a dynamic sport where purists tend to get snuffed out quick.

Outside of that context, boxing tends to be lower risk, higher reward. I can't just sucker submit someone.

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>>2097335
>he doesn't know about the AO and TMJ joints that trigger a knockout

>he thinks of fighting in terms of "vital points" like one of video games

Because we took war seriously

European martial arts has survived though. It's gretaly evolved over the past 400 years, but today it's known as the modern 1st world army.

>>2097325
>you've never been punched in the throat have you

I have and here I am.
That's not even my point, the point is that even with 16oz gloves you can get rocked by someone who boxes, and to highlight my point - yeah, it'd be probably be even worse without gloves. They know how to move their hands to the highest effectiveness of any martial sport.

>getting punched in the mouth is no big deal
It is when we're gauging effective technique. It's just way quicker to turn off someone's lights by breaking their jaw than it is to target and hit a moving person's "vital points".

It's just more efficient.

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>>2097348
well you're attacking a strawman there
of course punching is a good idea

>>2097356
yeah teeth and skull are a lot harder than your knuckles
You need the gloves for a punch to the mouth to result in a KO

vital points are medically proven to be real
they're known in martial arts because they work

>>2097374
but dude

the jaw is a vital point
*drops the mic*

>>2097374
your argument is
>things are hard how does you do them?? hurrr

>>2097376
>Vital points
Please I'm a medic and this is bs

>>2097376
>You need the gloves for a punch to the mouth to result in a KO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxJbRH0UWZg

>>2097390
I'm a medic too though

>>2097034
Yes, but that's not quite the same thing as "Kung fu originated outside of China", is it?

>>2097393
don't show me some gay little video
go try it yourself kidd

>>2097395
But that is pretty doubtful too

>>2097382
>the jaw is a vital point

So it is, but not very romantic. Strip mall kung fu experts would have you believe that if you even so much as bump your knee against a table you'd go into instant paralysis - an exaggeration, I know, but most of this stuff is ineffective bullshit to someone who wants to beat the ever loving shit out of you.

>>2096763
thing about Asian martial arts and their popularity was their accessibility

most MARtial arts are for military purposes but arts like Kung-fu, that came from monks, can easily be learned by civilians.

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>>2097417
well i don't care about strip mall kung fu experts

idiot

>>2097439
and what is it about krav maga that's inaccessible to civilians

all you need is a the info and a body

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Try that buddhist shit against some greco-roman wrestling in the octagon and ask that question agian.

>>2097450

It's funny, because you sound just like one with all this nebulous talk of "vital points".

>>2097457
>self-defense system developed for the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) that consists of a wide combination of techniques sourced from aikido, judo, boxing and wrestling
>judo, boxing and wrestling
>judo
>jew-do

I knew it!

>>2097061
Judo kids are scrubs on their feet compared to a wrestler of equal experience. Explain to me why they adapted their competitions to ban moves that are heavily taught in wrestling (leg attacks, bridging, neck cranks). The IJF got too butthurt that off season wrestlers were cleaning up their competitions.

>>2097458
>>>/lgbt/

>>2097458
dang thats a small penis

>>2097458
Greco Roman wrestling was originally called French wrestling and was invented in the 19th century by a former Napoleonic soldier who picked up a variety of folk wrestling styles in his travels. It was branded as Greco Roman to try and appeal to a wide variety of people and to inspire everyone with nostalgia. Actual Ancient Greek wrestling included a different rule set, in which simply falling to the ground awarded a point, along with joint locks and chokes.

>>2097494
>>2097494
showing your glans was a no-no so they tied the tip of their penis; besides having big dicks was for barbarians.

>>2097458
>free roman citizen tries to grapple Xiaolin monk
>monk teleports behind him and stabs him
>psssh.... nothing personal ..... kid

they can't fuck with a full legion though

>>2097477
Because they wanted to distinguish their sport form wrestling for the Olympic commodity

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>>2097460
yeah yeah

if we met in irl life this is where I show you them all and explain exactly where they are and why they work and tickle you up and down but alas that cannot be

>>2097510
More like
>monk tries to slap box
>gets duck undered and suplexed on his bald head
I mean just look at these old pussies

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqn09yaGpOc

>>2097521
What the fuck am I reading? Are you having a stroke? You've never been in a fight and I know thousands of "sport" fighters who would rip you in half

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>>2097477
well I don't know that's a real shame

>>2097523
what's with your attitude

you think shaolin monks don't know about duck-undering

I think you've been watching too many saturday morning catoons buck-o

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>>2097417
>2097395
This is a vital chart from an 150+ year old jujutsu style. Most are just normal anatomical weaknesses and you were supposed to hit them hard, not put subtle pressure on them

>>2097529
Where did I insult judo? I used to do judo, but most of the recent rule changes have to do with the Olympics

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>>2097523
There's a lot there that you don't see

like what would happen if you tried to gung-ho them

The same think happens when you show most people jiu-jutsu competitions
They're all like "why are they just flopping around"
You'd have to be familiar with the strategy to judge

>>2097556
or I don't even know

kung fu is weird

chinese people are weird

>>2097535
>cartoons
>he says while defending a bunch of bullshit that has been exaggerated by cartoons
Ok
>>2097556
Even the most casual of idiots can figure out the effectiveness of jiujitsu by future of its submissions, along with its sparring. Kung fu fortunately is as dumb and ineffective as it looks.

>>2097397
1v1 me irl

>>2096881

That's what happens with anything you turn into a sport.

>>2097595
so you're an expert now huh?

You really don't know what you're talking about

have you ever watched bruce lee movies?
Is that not effective?
Just read about that guy

>>2097185
Why is boxing necessary to be a competent kickboxer/MMA fighter? You're an incomplete fighter without the hands. Why was jui jitsu so much more effective when mixed with folk style wrestling? Why do most fighters use conditioning pioneered by western thinkers?

>>2097617
>have you ever watched bruce lee movies?
Is that not effective?

Are you a troll?

Chinese martial arts has some real interesting stuff but I dont think many of them are still strictly geared towards fighting.

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>>2097596
3 2 3-960- 3500
call me

>>2097618
boxing is merely one style of punching

>>2097624
> I dont think many of them are still strictly geared towards fighting.

are you a troll?

So does anyone actually have anything noteworthy or interesting about the development of martial arts or have we resorted to shitflinging by cucks who are undoubtedly too scared to fight a JV wrestler? Here's a neat little article with bad English.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16293&d=1408466169

>>2097637
One of the most effective styles of punching. It is very utilitarian and all professional fighters study it.

>>2097617
Yeah I forgot that the movies of an actor who admittedly pussed out of any actual fighting was definitive proof that kung fu, (a style which he wrote was useless by the way and in fact advocated for an early form of MMA) is """badass"""

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>>2097630
>tfw I called that number

>>2097646
it's not the strongest though

>>2097649
maybe he avoided fighting people because he'd likely end up in jail
and just because wing chun doesn't always work and should be supplemented with grappling does not make it useless

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>>2097642
http://kogenbudo.org/why-the-unrealistic-targets-in-modern-kendo/

http://kogenbudo.org/guest-blog-in-the-beginning-by-gustavo-goulart/

http://www.koryu.com/library/camberger2.html

http://www.koryu.com/library/tthreadgill1.html

http://www.shinyokai.com/Essays_Whatisjujutsu.htm

>>2097642
I ain't scared of no singlet wearing homo

>>2097640
Many Chinese martial arts are somewhat separated from both their origin and modern fighting. A lot of so focused on performance, cultural preservation or things like push hands that they are only tangentially about fighting. That isn't everyone but its a lot of CMA

>>2097659
It depends on the individual. It certainly is the most effective style of punching. If there were a more effective style people would use it in place of essential boxing techniques, which are in use globally. Usually the alternatives are just bullshido.

>>2097663
Here's this while I read the links you sent.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/G&WinRF.htm#.VAO8Ddm9LCR

>>2097659
Pure Wing Chun has never worked though. Anything supplemented with grappling isn't remotely the same thing anymore, and frankly I have no idea why you would waste your life training something that doesn't work when you could have just trained in martial arts that one could reasonably defend yourself with.

>>2097681
it's the easiest to learn and train in that's why it's popular

I happen to know a better way
It's empirically better
but I don't work for free fuk off

>>2097704
Please do share your secrets with us.

>>2097688
>Anything supplemented with grappling isn't remotely the same thing anymore

it is though
you strike until you clinch and then you grapple

it's not complicated

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>>2097682
While I dislike the author what he is saying seem congruent with both historical facts and modern training. grappling have almost always been a skill needed by men with weapons.

>>2096763
Could martial arts save your womans from Japanese soldiers ?

>>2097663
>the ending of that singlestick match
Kek

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>>2097710
well

when you box you're really just pushing until you can push no more

but if you throw you first with all the weight of your hips you really penetrate your target like aaaaaa rope dart or an arrow or something
but that hurts your handsies at first
ouchy

>>2097721
Any better authors out there on the subject? I wish there was a good depiction of old fights, just to see the subtleties of the techniques being used by fighters of antiquity and how it differs from what I've learned in our modern age.

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>>2097746
*throw your fist

>>2097752
Not that I know of for HEMA. I know several Japanese authories who have written about the integration of swordsmanship and grappling like Amdur and threadgill

>>2097781
Would their other stuff be accessible through the websites you shared?

>>2096763
It valued practicality over tradition in that regard.

>>2097786
Some of it yes,

my dislike of Clements has more to do with his reputation and some of the drama his group has generated with JSA than with what he wrote here.

Because fighting was never banned in Europe. you do realize martial arts was a dance simulating fighting to keep Chinese soldiers fit because they were banned from seriously fighting each other and was never intended to actually be used in combat right?

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>>2097376
>You need the gloves for a punch to the mouth to result in a KO
That isn't true at all. I've seen people KO'd IRL with no gloves. It usually just takes a good hit to the jaw.

>>2097061

You do know eastern martial arts were never intended to be used for anything other than exercise right? Where in the Art of War does it say to use the Chung-Fung Hummingbird Ten-Gong Punch? Nowhere, because martial arts is for EXERCISE and DISCIPLINE. In a real fight, swinging a sword, grappling and punching your opponants head in is the way to win.

>people who have never actually fought have a fight about fighting

>>2097878
>jaw
>mouth
>jaw
>mouth

>mouth
>jaw

>>2097880
This is simply wrong. fighting was not usual in Asia and most martial arts, were made for fighting in their original form. Almost all Chinese systems included weapons like sword and spear along with unarmed stuff.

>>2097889
>someone who has never actually fought projects his weakness

>>2097890
jaw
noun

b : the parts constituting the walls of the mouth and serving to open and close it —usually used in plural

>>2097880
>In a real fight, swinging a sword, grappling and punching your opponants head in is the way to win.

so...martial arts?

what are you smoking

>>2097898
so what's the definition of mouth

>>2097901
Food hole.

>>2097880
In a real fight, you have a bunch of friends and everyone is armed with pointy sticks and use those sticks to beat up other people.

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>>2097906
there you go

punching someone in the mouth is a bad idea unless you're wearing big poofy gloves

it's a hole full of teeth and it's right in the middle of the face

>>2097926
>a ""real""fight""

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>>2096763
basically they did. see western fencing, etc.

gook martial arts are "historic and spiritual" only by reputation not in reality. the reason is because all those asian countries were dominated by western military powers so they turned to (and in most cases outright invented) their ridiculous martial "arts" practices as a source of cultural pride by also inventing the idea that their secret ethnonational styles were not only supreme systems of combat that could make fighters invincible but also the fount of spiritual and personal development. every one of these asian countries has their own stupid "martial art" (or two or three) that is laughable but is held out by that culture to be the supreme style and so on.

in reality they are actually just a form of cultural dancing and not effective at all, either in terms of combat or 'spiritual' development, but they work as a source of national pride and cultural indoctrination. they are also good at getting gullible western teens to spend money on them.

the one exception (a real combat system) is muay thai since it was always taken seriously by its practitioners as a combat discipline (just like western martial arts were) and it stayed far the fuck away from the spiritual and "we're da best culture :^)" bullshit that other countries's martial "arts" did. hint: thailand was never conquered or held into submission to western powers

here's a vid of muay thai vs. an americanized amalgamation of "historic and spiritual" "martial arts"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpl_7w8-jTE

>>2096763
Bayonet fighting exists, and is distinctly European.

>>2096881
>spirtual aspects
Western martial arts have never had those.

Fencing was ALWAYS seen as a science and an art, even in the medieval period.

>>2097061
>>2097477
>>2097167
Going to ground in real fights gets you kciked unconscious by the toher guys friends if you're lucky.

You get fucking stabbed if you're unlucky.

Source:
I've been the guy delivering the kicks. MMA doesn't help when you're catching a boot to the cheek.

>>2097185
But why aren't all the MMA champions boxers
Because MMA bans things like dropping an elbow on the back of the head or neck when someone lowers their head and rushes you.

Same for standing up and proceeding the kick or drop knees on the other guy... or fucking stabbing him when he's on you.

It's a sport, not a street fight. If you can't readily flee, can't see their hands, and can't see their friends, you're asking to get very badly hurt.

>>2097982
Escrima is still some very serious shit. Practitioners living in a shithole and getting into actual knife fights apparently does wonders to keep a martial art functional.

>>2097993
Why not just run the dude over with your car in a street fight? I can't believe no car having fags try to talk about fighting kek

>>2098003
Because fixing cars is expensive. I carry a gun instead, a magazine of hornady critical defense is far cheaper than a new windshield.

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>>2097982
damn you must be a veritable expert of all styles

>>2098003
what would you do if he stood behind a post
or went into an alley

or was in the car with you

That's no different from saying
"Why not just shoot him with your gun or bomb him with your jet?"

>>2098004
what are you going to do if you're in a no-gun zone
or in prison?

If you were being detained and wanted to commit a final act all you could do is cry

besides
learning martial arts makes you better at shooting

>>2097993
yeah grappling isn't always convenient

>Because MMA bans things like dropping an elbow on the back of the head or neck when someone lowers their head and rushes you....

and boxing doesn't?

What are you saying

>>2098010
it's a fact, nigga

with ufc and other mma formats (which were only invented very recently) every style has had its chance to prove itself and every single one of the "so deep and spiritual" martial arts of the east turned out to be a joke (except muay thai, and bjj which isn't really jj anyway)

>>2098020
>what are you going to do if you're in a no-gun zone
Carry anyway. Welcome to real life, if you're in America, you're either a NEET, or near somebody with a gun at least a few times a week.

>or in prison?
I'm white, pay my taxes in full, and don't do drugs. The odds of me seeing any jail time are rather low.

>>2098024
Does boxing routinely feature people lowering their head and rushing to grapple?

No. MMA does. Does this in reality will probably work, but will get you concussed by a competent fighter.

>>2098027
Wow you really know everything

but wait a minute
that's not even true

go fukyurself

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>>2098034
I don't think you know what boxing consists of and you're clearly pretty stupid if you think you're always going to have a gun on you

>>2096763
they did
but noteworthy
it's not uncommon for asian ma to be the origin of some sort of weapon ban
while europe had bans in regions from time to time it was never to that extent or lead to weapon inventions e.g. "Messer"
So MA here was more often seen as "addition" to fighting rather than a "replacement"
thus western MA never had the same type of "muh secret tradition" stuff

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>>2098042
wow ur rite mantis style gung fu is killing it in ufc

anyway brb gonna train wing chun because ip man defeated the japs with it, then i'll be invincible and enlightened like him

>>2098051
you clearly don't know the first thing about melee combat

it's not like mixing concrete or sweeping a floor
it's not work

They did. Greco-Roman wrestling.

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because the eastern martial arts tended towards a reverence fo the master, that had to be preserved. european arts tended more to evolution and revolution...

therefore we started off with this:

>>2097982
>gook martial arts are "historic and spiritual" only by reputation not in reality. the reason is because all those asian countries were dominated by western military powers so they turned to (and in most cases outright invented) their ridiculous martial "arts" practices as a source of cultural pride by also inventing the idea that their secret ethnonational styles were not only supreme systems of combat that could make fighters invincible but also the fount of spiritual and personal development.

I dont know where you get your information, but at the very least Japan and China both have systems going back hundreds of years.

Nor was the spiritualism forced or a veneer, shrines, temples and monasteries were both centers of learning and important civil and military locations. warriors and martial artists natural tended to gather there, so its not surprising that the spiritual practices of those places had a impact on them

"After practicing the secret rituals of Marishi-sonten day after day... I received an inspiration from the deity"
- Kamiizumi Ise-no-Kami Nobutsuna

His shinkage ryu went on to be a dominate system of swordsmanship in the early edo period and still exists today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn-p19C8MAQ

while it might look like cultural dancing to you it was used in both sparring and in real live fights with swords and was considered so effective it spread to almost all parts of japan before the conveniences of modern travel. One line of the school even made it to China.

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>>2098061
that evolved into this:

>>2098052
okay have fun

btw the big idea behind mantis is doing things that happen to be illegal in ufc

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>>2098065

that in turn evolved into this.

>>2098027
Its Jujutsu in that all its material can be found in various jujutsu schools. Last I checked Judo and full contact karate do fine in the ring as well.

>>2098065
what about kenjutsu (for one)

niggas was cutting each other up for centuries

>>2098065
for a second i thought he sliced off his boner

>>2098061
To be fair eastern martial arts often added or subtracted in their teachings up through the modern era, they just were not very upfront about it.

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>>2098068

that evolved into this (notice the "button" on the end of the blade)

>>2098046
>and you're clearly pretty stupid if you think you're always going to have a gun on you
I literally do though. There's a gun on me right now. There's a gun on me at my gun free work-along with a sizeable number of my coworkers. There was a gun on me when I went to vote. I carried a gun before I was legally permitted to do so when I felt the need.

The only times i'm not actively carrying a gun, I'm in the company of friends who are, and will have a knife. These occasions require to visit one of the minority of states where my permit isn't honored. I rarely do this.


Again, if you're in America, you're likely walking past people with guns literally every week. More often if you live in a large city.

>>2098080
there's a gun on you when you shoot a woman in self defense and several witnesses falsely allege that you did in cold blood and your sent to prison and get assraped daily when the other inmates find out

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>>2098079
and that evolved into this:

(now of course, that's an incredibly simplified version of it all, but that's the gist of it. Martial arts evolved and changed heavily over the course of the last millennia. as arms, armour, technology of manufacture, and its entire purpose changed too. Meanwhile, eastern arts tended to become much more static and repeated as a method of learning, while culture and context changed around them.)

>>2098092
but that's not gonna happen heyyyyy don't worry about it have some more pie and coffee

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>>2098073
western martial arts have a long and glorious tradition of dick-stabbing.

often with the poor bastard's own weapon, to add insult to injury.

>>2098093
you'll always need unarmed combat unless you live in like Demolition Man

They still teach it in the militarizes of the world
even in Israel which is constant war

You gotta be able to handle yourself in intimate situations

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>>2098093
http://ejmas.com/proceedings/GSJSA05ham.html

This article hilights the similarities between how western sword arts and Japanese ones were taught.

But the author makes one mistake. The Japanese were also tweeking their material throughout the period, even in the school he talked about went through multiple permutations before arriving in its abbreviated modern form.

Weapons were added and discarded as need and popularity dictated, as were techniques.

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>>2098102
if it works it works

>>2098109
yes

the naginata was popular until greaves became common

but they still taught it to women because horses didn't wear greaves

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>>2098110
are are also other darker, secret martial arts that are not spoken of...

>>2098063
>I dont know where you get your information, but at the very least Japan and China both have systems going back hundreds of years.
no doubt but they were not originally about spirituality but combat effectiveness

>Nor was the spiritualism forced or a veneer, shrines, temples and monasteries were both centers of learning and important civil and military locations. warriors and martial artists natural tended to gather there
so the practitioners may have been 'spiritual' and even used their spiritual beliefs in their practice but that's different to saying that the martial art itself was considered a source of spiritual development

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>>2098115
The naginata remained popular far past grieves, it was the go to pole arm until the 1460's when mass infantry tactics became common. It only became associated with weapon in the late segoku or edo.

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>>2098102
that's why the codpiece was the most important piece of armor you could wear

>>2098119
>that's different to saying that the martial art itself was considered a source of spiritual development

learning to fight and spiritual development were not necessary different in their minds. If you read the texts they wrote you see they saw spiritual attainment as being the end result of practical training. In there world view the physical world and spiritual were intertwined and effected each other so this was not a stretch

>>2098109

oh, japanese martial arts changed a lot in the details - particularly 10-18th C. and same with chinese, but there's a different cultural value there, that of learning by rote from the existing master, which is a different philosophy to western arts. and that resulted in a relatively static culture in terms of development of arms and armour - the japanese fighting man of 1200, would recognise the equipment of 1800, far more than the equivalent german or english fighting man would've. European arms had vastly more development, while particularly japanese metallurgy stagnated in terms of innovation.

the oriental arts were being tweaked.
the western arts were being completely rewritten.


there's also the fact that in many cases, the living traditions in europe were exterminated - Oliver Cromwell, for instance, executed all the engllish sword fighting masters, as part of his methods to suppress revolution - prevent them learning to fight - and in doing so, killed a tradition that extended back to the 13th C at least.

and there's plenty of other examples - just you can fill a 500-page book on them, not just a 2000-character post.

>>2098080
Because people can get the drop on you even if armed.

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>>2098135
He would recognize the equipment as being completely impractical for warfare. A lot of it were costume copies of armor that was impractical even in the sengoku period. When people started fighting again they wore stuff like pick related.

I get what your saying but the changes in armor, weapons and fighting styles were fare more drastic than most people give them credit for.

From my understanding European sword arts up through the early modern period had an apprenticeship system that was very close to Japanese teaching in practice

>>2096881
There's nothing spiritual in beating the crap out of people.

>>2098135
Never heard that about Cromwell, is there somewhere I can read more?

>>2098132
not convinced, sorry

>>2098176
that one's just a random bit I learnt years ago, no source, sorry.

but can suggest this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Martial-Arts-Renaissance-Europe/dp/0300083521

by professor Sydney Angelo.

Lovely chap, an absolute gentleman.

>>2096763
The West certainly does have fighting styles that are based on age old tradition and technique.

There are two types of fighting styles, martial arts and martial sciences. Arts take years, decades even, to master and aren't even that effective in a real brawl but as they're name holds they look good. Some of these are kung fu, taekwondo, karate, etc.

Martial sciences are based on the study of real fights. They tend to teach the basic movements right off the bat so they're quick and easy to learn, then focus on coordination and bodily conditioning for mastery. Some of these are kickboxing, wrestling, MMA, and military fighting styles. (Sciences are mostly Western styles while the arts are mostly eastern)

There are some that I consider combinations of the two. Namely, muay thai, jui jitsu (including BJJ), JKD, among others. These are some of my favorites, though I think an eclectic fighter who Incorporates many styles that specifically work for him is the most effective. I'm not saying that a martial artist can't be tough as nails, but I'm also not saying a champion Olympic kickboxer or MMA fighter couldn't rek him. If you were to pit the best of the East and West against each other it would depend on conditioning and the effectiveness of technique, which both kinds of styles train for. But there are some that suck and only focus on fancy looking stuff, and those styles pretty much all fall under the "arts" category.

>>2098177
Well there are several books and articles you could read that could convince you maybe

http://www.brill.com/buddhist-goddess-marishiten

http://www.brill.com/tengu

>>2096881
Europe definitely used to have the "warrior monk" mindset back in Christendom and even before that when they were Pagan (a faith that highly stressed honor in battle). The thing is the Christian religion is weak and illogical, Europeans are too smart to keep believing in it so they've lost much of their spirituality. If they had stuck to a scientific spirituality like their old Pagan faiths they would still be spiritual today. All those gods represented forces of nature and the universe, while the Abrahamic god is just kind of a dick. I'd rather worship nature than a dick and I'm sure many others would agree if they were still familiar with their original faith.

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>>2098231
>scientific spirituality like their old Pagan faiths

>>2098231
I sometimes wonder how on earth this sort of person comes up with this bullshit.

the depressing bit is, they're so absolutely sure in their comments that they think its real, while those of us who have studied these subjects are just left unable to even begin to know where to start, to explain how wrong they are.

>>2097640
Are you an idiot? Its a well known fact that most Chinese martial arts are essentially sports with no combat value and have gone centuries of development since they were actual practical skills.

>>2097982

>here's a vid of muay thai vs. an americanized amalgamation of "historic and spiritual" "martial arts"

... Muay Thai dude got his fucking jaw broken in the very first round and persevered purely due to strength of character,

>>2097663
Kendo is shite, it mostly relies on hitting the other person first. 99.99% of the hits that will actually score you a point are followed literal milliseconds later by the opponent hitting you, which in reality is akin to mutual destruction. Kendo and any other type of fencing is a sport

>>2098146
condition yellow should be the default of any CCL holder out in public.
when you're packing heat, you will be extra vigilant.

>>2097004
It means Europa will have no peace, and hasn't had any, with the ETERNAL KRAUT

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>>2098270

>>2098034
>I'm white, pay my taxes in full, and don't do drugs. The odds of me seeing any jail time are rather low.

You will be in jail for denying the Holocaust.
Trump Act 101 - mark my words.

>>2098357
I don't though. I'm a classical liberal, everybody loves me.

May the fags the married on their pot farm and then proceed to shoot guns off of their porch.

>hurr what is HEMA
/Thread

>>2098339
Did you even read the article? its not about defending kendo as practical its about the evolution of shiinai keiko into kendo.

That said kendo does not consider a mutual kill to be the end goal, but it is preferable to just being hit because you were too defensive. Heck, even Hema is full of after blows. Ideally though your supposed to score a hit that totally dominates the opponent.

>>2098378
Most HEMA practitioners REQUIRE you to defend against the after blow in order to score a point.

>>2098388
http://kenshi247.net/blog/2010/09/21/yuko-datotsu/

>Ippon is not given in the following cases: when both players simultaneously make valid strikes and when one player makes a valid strike but the opponent shows full spirit and proper posture and the tip of his/her shinai is on the front of the chest of the striking player.

>>2098406
>and the tip of his/her shinai is on the front of the chest of the striking player.
That's extremely limited.

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>>2098415
Kendo shiai is limited, no one is arguing other wise. but kendo shiai is only one part of kendo and many kendoka would argue it is not the most important part. Striking only to receive and after blow is not generally considered good kendo

>>2096908
Weren't the majority of sources we have on the subject of historical European martial arts written in Germany?

>>2098235
Rome was Pagan m8. Christianity absolutely rekt it, and rekt Europe sending it into the dark ages. We're a thousand years behind our potential because of your forced cuck religion. The Renaissance that led to the beauty on the right of your pic was PAGAN INSPIRED. I also never said anything about those German/Nordic barbarians. I idolize Roman and Greek culture much more. However, their faith had little to do with them running around naked. Their regions were poor.

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>>2097993
>Bayonet fighting exists, and is distinctly European.

The Japanese have a version of it, at first they used french techniques but then they modified it with native spear techniques and kendo gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSRmQCqMNhM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJSrlwLOGuo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cffEmzxVGCk

>>2096763
They developed their "martial arts" e.g. they learnt how to fight just as much as Easterners. Difference is that in Japan martial arts were eventually formalised since Japs formalise every fucking thing. When traditional combat became obsolete, these arts were regarded as the cultural heritage of Japan and were practiced as a means to retain an identity. It was mostly Western influence said identity had to be protected from. In the West, people are more pragmatic and Western culture has never been undeniably outclassed so none of the reasons that played a part in Japan applied. Don't know about China though.

>>2098472
No not really, Italy is just as important if not more.
German sources wane fast in the 16th century while the Italian ones get to be far more numerous so that in the end it's on an equal number.
There's a crazy number of French smallsword sources as well.

>>2098969
The vast majority of medieval sources up to the early modern are German.

>>2099059
Yes, but the HEMA sources in general are not dominated in number by the german ones. Italian ones of the modern era are just as numerous and then it's probably French and English ones of the late 17th, 18th and early 19th centuries.
Medieval Hema sources are predominantly in the german language, but altogether, it's only a fraction of the historical martial arts we have access to.

>>2096763
We did tho

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_school_of_swordsmanship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_school_of_fencing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_school_of_fencing

>>2099089
As I said: most medieval sources are German and I'd argue the middle ages are what most people have in mind when they hear the term HEMA rather than Victorian period military manuals, even though the latter may be just as related.

>>2099104
Not a continuous practice from inception to our days though.
Except maybe the smallsword French school of fencing...

>>2096881
Spiritual martial arts exist because of third world, idiotic, dogmatic morons who espouse non-scientific nonsense and the legions of gullible western idiots who faun over everything ancient and eastern as being superior knowledge.

Practicing Tai chi is a hobby, akin to knitting.

Practicing western fighting is a sport. I loved training but I would never kid myself that I could take on a couple kf thugs or someone with a weapon without getting seriously injured or killed.

Practicing self defense is best done with a weapon like a gun or knife and you probably wont get any legitimate teachings except in the military and even then it's a very controversial issue due to pure lack of practical experience.

Hand to hand fighting is a sport.

>>2099107
>People
Well those "people" also mostly think of "the Middle-Ages" mostly as the late 14th and early 15th century. Why the opinion of non-educated people on that precise subject must be our frame of reference exactly?

The original post (>>2098472) said "historical european martial arts" and not "medieval european martial arts" so no german sources or in that case not what we mosty have. Hema isn't only german longsword ffs, whatever non-involved people think about it.

Fabris rapier style and the Dardi school (especially Marozzo) for instance are just as important in terms of legacy as the Lichtenauer lineage and other german sources, whatever uninformed people think. On the contrary we should be thinking of broadening the horizons of those "people" rather than sticking to "hema is german longsword" which is patently false.

Nobody is arguing that late middle-ages sources are mostly german stuff, but HEMA is not medieval martial arts (only) hopefully.

The problem is exactly the same in traditional japanese martial arts (Sengoku-era koryu are the only relevant styles) and it's ridiculous in both ways.

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>>2099110
All these sword arts continued in the form of modern fencing.

>>2099133
Not some like the Lichtenauer lineage no. Same thing with Armizare which is certainly not foundable in modern fencing in any way.

This assertion is only partially true for mostly some French and Italian styles.

>>2099122
>Nobody is arguing that late middle-ages sources are mostly german stuff
Good.

>Sengoku-era koryu are the only relevant styles
This shouldn't be surprising because what most people attracts is the romantic ideal of the samurai, comparable to the romantic ideal of the knight that finds itself represented in medieval HEMA (the fact aside that the manuals weren't really written by members of the knightly classes).

>>2098066
>the rules keep ching chong magic from working
Thats not true though.
If I can teep you in the stomach, I can kick you in the dick.
If I can hook you in the gabber, I can punch your throat.
If I can control you on the ground or in the clinch, I can in better positions to more effectively gouge your eyes or grab your dick or whatever those deadly kung fu people do.
>muh rules
are no excuse.
Furthermore, there are eastern martial arts that work, judo and full contact karate come to mind, because it's not about style, culture or region of origin, martial arts and combat sports are about technique and training methods.
People use martial arts to beat each other up irl -> they are effective
People stop using martial arts to beat each other up irl (because of guns for example) -> they become sports and stay effective because of constant checking OR they become formalized cult like magic dances.

>>2097014
The fuck isn't practical about boxing? If anything the weird asian shit is impractical.

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Really makes you think

https://youtu.be/04CA27140j4

>>2097117
Boxing with gloves is more dangerous
http://www.neatorama.com/2010/07/04/bare-knuckle-boxing-is-actually-safer-than-using-gloves/

I used to practice taekwondo and the teacher was a Korean dude who was ex special forces.

He said martial arts are a way to train your reflexes and muscles. Very rarely will you see someone in a brawl use fancy martial arts. But it will teach you how to punch and kick and where it hurts the most.

Its like thise wannabe tough guys who use knuckledusters wrong and end up breaking their own knuckles. Anyone can put on a pair but not everyone can use them effectively.

And yes a punch to the jaw/mouth will knock someone out quickly. Mostly because people are slack jawed in a fight and don't keep their chin down.

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>>2099212
You can't be this fucking stupid

>>2098339
try out academic fencing, more about not getting hit yourself

weeboos need to be gassed with nukes

>>2099275
same

>>2099244
It makes sense: Gloves do for the most part protect the wearer's hands, allowing him to stike harder which causes more trauma.
Bare knuckle strikes will cause more cuts but will have less impact because of the higher probability of injuring the strikers fists.

>>2096763
Ancient Greeks did have pagration, as for how practical it is, I have no idea.

Other than that, no other western Europian martial art comes to mind.

>>2099323
Gloves exist primarily to protect the wearers hands
They add some more weight
More weight requires more acceleration
Gloves are padded which reduces the amount of force to the target and the wearer's hand.

>>2096763
I want to know why the west never had a spiritual revolution like the east.
Even today it still comes through a lot in their society.

Was it the romans?

Where's our spiritual revolution, anon?

>>2099365
Your point?
I agree that saying that gloves make fighting more dangerous period is an oversimplification, they obviously make punching safer for the guy doing the punching.
For they guy getting punched, it's entirely different: He may get less "superficial" injuries like cuts, but because gloves allow for harder strikes with more blunt force acting upon the one getting hit, he will amass more brain trauma, thus making fighting with gloves more dangerous in the long term.

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>>2099395
>Crumple zones in cars make crashes more dangerous because they encourage peope to drive faster and more recklessly

>>2099395
You are exactly right, and that article previously linked probably says pretty much the same thing as it is a common observation and critique of modern boxing.

>>2099405
>false equivalences, reaction gifs and meme arrows will surely prove that I'm right
Try punching the wall as hard as you can without a glove and see what happens to your hand.

>>2098482
>and rekt Europe sending it into the dark ages.

simply epic

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>>2099412
yes, it's pretty much common knowledge in combat sports circles, the other guy is probably just being a dickhead or doesn't even train.
Do you train?

>>2099419
Wow...

Newton's third law.

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>>2098206
that's some bullshit

a martial science would be like military strategy

you can't divorce yourself from your body and expect to be a competent fighter
Melee combat is necessarily expressive
Even boxers go "shoo shoo" when they punch

That's like saying that there are drawing arts and drawing sciences and drawing sciences are superior because you only draw boxes

>>2099435
There you go.
And do you know what F will do to your hand and what F will do to the wall?

>>2099434
Used to, when I was younger.

>>2099443
>Punching a wall without a glove hurts
>Punching a wall with a glove reduces and distributes impact forces
>But punching someone with a glove magically creates more force
I need to stop acknowledging retards.

>>2098270
begin from the beginning and keep on going until the end then stop

>>2099452
F=m*a
You can control a because of your muscles.
Punching harder will cause more F to act upon your hand, therefore without a glove protecting your hand, you will need to reduce a to reduce the F to not get injured.
Your punch will cause less F without a glove because you produce less a because you don't want your hand to break.

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>>2099192

>>2099449
haha oldfag

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>>2099467

>>2099323
You're so dumb my god

Bare hand is way more dangerous because there is no cushion to avoid wound.

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>>2099467
what if you've conditioned your knuckles like this and don't care about booboos

Bare hand boxing is only safer between pussies

>>2099518
bones still break

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>>2099524
what if you've conditioned your knuckles like this and don't care about booboos

>>2099531
still doesn't keep bones from breaking

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>>2099533
they punch concrete blocks you know

>>2099518
>>2099531
You know how in kyokushin and deriviates, they don't punch to the head?

>>2099536
they do punch to certain areas on the head
but not in tournaments or sparring

>>2099535
kek weeb faggot

>>2099524
>>2099533
You're a pussy it's all

I've myself throw a punch in a huge thick pilar of iron when i was drunk and my bones didn't break at all, my hand bled a lot tho.

>>2099405
>driving a car and punching are basically the same thing and governed by the same rules
Holy shit you are the most ignorant dipshit I have ever had the pleasure of arguing with on this board. Frankly I remain unconvinced that you know anything about athletics or physical exertion, let alone the martial arts and your repeated attempts to sound intelligent lead me to question your basic understanding of everything. I would not be completely surprised that behind your unfunny, off topic memes imported straight from funnyjunk lies the mind of a bored 15 year old whose sole interest in life is to spread their uninformed opinion under the guise of an "enlightened defender of the TRUE martial arts." It's this same kind of amateur fanboyism that have relegated martial artists to be seen as a bunch of ponytail having rejects, instead of solidifying their storied place as athletes, a place that would have been secured had history not lead us down the darkened path of fetishizing Asian romanticism. Shoo shoo Count Dante.

>>2099551
I'm japanese retard

>>2099556
You can still be Japanese, a weeb and a faggot.

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>>2099555

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>>2099559
who are you trying to troll kiddo

>>2099544
so they don't throw full force strikes to the head, just to the body which is significantly less protected by bones
>>2099553
that just means that you're a pussy because you can't even punch hard enough to break your own hand

>>2099565
Nope that mean that my bones are alpha bones while your bones are omegha bones and can't handle a tenth of my alpha bones

You should drink more milk lad

>>2099565
they don't throw full force strikes to the head because that's especially lethal

but don't you know that when a bone breaks and mends it becomes harder than it was before the break?
If you do that enough it takes more than bone to break 'em
especially if you break them on concrete blocks

I've heard of some people breaking their knuckles with hammers into one single knuckle
you can bet they don't feel much even when they do whallop a skull

>>2099569
1v1 me fag, 8 o'clock under the bridge
>>2099570
yeah right, full force punches to the head are definitely more lethal than kicks, it's not at all about protecting hands
knuckle hardening doesn't work because it makes them more brittle, they just kill off their nerves
breaking concrete blocks is a fucking trick to show off

>it's the easiest to learn and train in that's why it's popular
AND it hits the hardest.

It's easy to train, It's easy to learn and It is the most effective. In so many words; it is superior. Why employ something that is bother more difficult to use and less powerful? That is the definition of inefficient

>>2097746
>when you box you're really just pushing until you can push no more
What the hell are you talking about?

>but if you throw you first with all the weight of your hips you really penetrate
Yes, Proper boxing technique stipulates that your hips, shoulder, triceps and forearm must all be used to deliver an effective punch
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ce4MWG4VQY

>but that hurts your handsies at first
Yes. A punch only hits as hard as the combatant swings it. If you find a way to hit hard without swinging hard, please let us know as you've found a loophole in the laws of physics

>>2099582
breaking board is a trick

You can't just break a concrete block with positive thinking

They don't even always break them

I'm not too informed about the rules of competition but I bet there's something about kicking the temple or face or top of the head

You can kick with your toe knuckles to the same effect as hand knuckles

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>>2099582
I'll be here.
Don't forget to say your last words to your family.

>>2099591
It seems you're a real master why don't write a book about it

>>2099591
You've clearly never experiences technical fighting styles

boxing isn't one

It's a sport

Look
at these point we'd punch each other and if I was lighter yet hit you twice as hard as you could hit me then that would prove it huh

boxers can't box all their lives just as sprinters can't compete all their lives but karate guys can and do train ALL their lives and there are 90 year old guys who could still kill easily
a 90 year old boxer is a big ol' raisin--useless

fags can't learn karate
therein lies the reason that it's unpopular

>>2099595
fine
but you will not win cause I will not lose
>>2099594
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rABWC0BDvko
just look at this, the pieces of concrete are stacked the same way as boards are in breaking demonstrations, it's the same shit
and the dude doesn't even use his fists in this example
and do you really think that round kicks are meant to impact with the foot? in full contact fighting, you kick with the shin to not injure yourself

>>2099471
>opinion
Then how come the overly aesthetic east Asian styles were the first to get BTFO when MMA competitions initially emerged?

Remember; The difference between Western and Eastern Martial Arts is that Western emphasizes the 'Martial' aspect whereas eastern emphasizes the 'Arts' aspect

>>2099630
yeah I can pull up gay videos that don't accurately represent things too

>>2099560
faggot

>>2099633
because some styles are more efficient than others

but it's not as simple as western vs eastern
karate is japanese and does well in mma competitions

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>>2097061
Wow! You literally know zero about boxing and wrestling.

>>2097014
>boxing and wrestling isn't practical
boxing-style striking and grappling is literally the only effective ways to fight.

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>>2099646
Wow! You literally know zero about boxing and wrestling.

>>2099648
then why does karate style striking do so well in mma

>>2099639
than show me gay videos that accurately represent things

>>2099653
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twAQQXhQhbQ
something like this is the bread and butter of kyoukushin(or however it's spelled)

and shotokan uses makiwara

>>2099630
if you do not lose i will lose, thus i will win

>>2099651
it's the same shit, thai boxing too, you put up a guard and you strike as a boxer, then add in some kicks from karate, and then grappling with jiu jitsu and judo being the best to be fair but that doesn't mean wrestling in general is useless as you put said.

>>2099657
toppest of keks, didn't you say something about "breaking concrete"?
the dude is throwing strikes at 10% of force, 20% tops
>>2099659
winning is a spook anyway tbqh lad

>>2099663
what do you mean "strike as a boxer"

because it's not boxing

>>2099666
I didn't once say "breaking concrete"

lern 2 riid

>>2099598
>It seems you're a real master why don't write a book about it
Well, I have trained in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Boxing, Krav Maga, MMA on and off four about 14 years and even had a brief stint with SOC-P. Maybe I should

>>2099619
>You've clearly never experiences technical fighting styles
Guess again

>Boxing...is a sport
True, which is why it is not advised to use it as your combat system. However, it's techniques (which are quite simple, yet effective) have long since been incorporated into other fighting style.

But when we are talking STRICTLY about the effectiveness of striking with FISTS, Boxing techniques win hands down

>Look
>at these point we'd punch each other and if I was lighter yet hit you twice as hard as you could hit me then that would prove it huh

>boxers can't box all their lives just as sprinters can't compete all their lives but karate guys can and do train ALL their lives and there are 90 year old guys who could still kill easily
a 90 year old boxer is a big ol' raisin--useless

I have yet to meet anybody still getting into fist fights at age 90 (namely with other 90-year-olds) and if I did, I would encourage them to rethink their life.

>fags can't learn karate
Actually, they refuse to learn anything else
>therein lies the reason that it's unpopular
Wrong. It's unpopular because it's sucky and inneffective

>>2099671
nigga u must be trollin

>>2099594
>You can't just break a concrete block with positive thinking
>They don't even always break them
>>2099669

>>2099678
yeah so what

they break them to qualify for tournaments
but they don't break them to train
what would be the point of breaking something over and over again
to train you have to attempt to break something and not break it

>>2097376
Go back to masturbating to cartoons, weeaboo. Katanas do enough damage in d20 modern.

>>2099694
/b/

>>2099682
stop deflecting and show me a video of someone breaking a solid concrete block with his fist, or even an attempt at it

>the one shitposting weeb

Damn, I love forchin

>>2099672
No U

>>2099651
>then why does karate style striking do so well in mma
Karate does well in MMA in for a handful of fighters that use it a few Extremely niche situations.

This is grossly overshadowed by boxing which is used by FUCKING EVERYBODY in arguably EVERY SINGLE MATCH within MMA

>>2098020
>learning martial arts makes you better at shooting

Care to back that up, or are we claiming Equilibrium was a documentary of Gun Kata?

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>>2099718
Meh not him but I can believe that.

To be honest learning fencing and wrestling made me better at fucking everything. It sounds like a meme but at the end of the day it's just training to use your body perfectly under pressure.

All strength and action starts at the ground so dedicating plenty of time to how to stand and how to move is beneficial to shooting. Most shooters don't do that and those that do wether it's relevant or not properly are or were martial artists after all.

Hand eye coordination training comes into play too.

>>2099395
Yup. True science, dat.

>>2099405
Actually, yeah. Kinda how helmet laws cause more bicycle injuries, as people compensate for the extra safety by being more reckless. Football pads work similarly.

>OMG mah common sense is wrong and the world is more complex than I assumed

>>2099452
>I'mma gonna punch dat wall
>no gloves
>I'mma gonna punch it soft, so's to protect mah hands

...comprehend yet?

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>>2099706
>I can't understand it so it's shitposting

>>2099716
zen philosophy doesn't lend itself well to competing for money

>>2099748
>Correlation = causation

>>2099753
>I'ma a punch it hard, but with a soft bit of padding
>This makes me hit the wall harder
Retarded. Are you black?

>>2099785
That's pretty racist

>>2099785
No, correlation does not equal causation; you must have me mistaken for some kind of mouthbreathing idiot. However... when people's behavior changes in a statistically provable way, you can start looking for causes in such behavior. I know it's shocking, but sometimes correlation CAN equal causation.

Thanks for playing, though. I'll let you go back to your Weeaboo Fightan Magic now.

>>2099799
that's pretty racist

>>2099809
You know what... yeah, it is. I'm personally exceedingly tired of the idea that somehow Asia produced superior cultures and science, when by the turn of the last century they were getting their asses handed to them by literally everyone in the west (except Russia, because history has a sense of humor and that's the Russians). China and Japan were both allergic to progress, but somehow people hold them up as pinnacles of martial achievement... despite the repeated ass-kickings.

>>2099817
yeah some people don't think it be like it is but it do
>>/pol/

Anyone itt that thinks boxing isn't a sport is kidding themselves

I've spoken to boxers and they all say that they'd avoid fighting martial artists

The moment you sweep or pull on them they fall over!

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>>2099844

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>>2099876

>>2099817
The claim is not Europeans did not know how to fight, just that far more Asian martial art systems survived the forces of modernization.

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cause they chose to divide the human being in arbitrary parts and develop them isolated from each other.

martial arts is something that engages the whole being.

>>2096963
didnt he come from india?

>>2097004
GERMans are the plague of europe and the world.

>>2096921

this is what Americuck think..pathetic

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>>2100786
so youre saying west and east have same spiritualty?

>>2100786
Just because there's no master/pupil domination fetish in martial arts of western origin doesn't mean they aren't spiritual for the practitioner

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-22RvoxJU_I

Teen Tyson trainning.
Yes, boxing is only a sport with a set of rules, but it still can put a fight and even win against most -stand up- martial arts/combat Styles.

The sparring Focus, the simple yet to the point trainning and the mad endurance , make boxing a great fucking choice.

I cant really understand how so many MA people try to look down upon boxing, it's like trying to deny reality.
Offcourse you dont learn to kick or grapple with boxing, but if you cant appreciate/fear what boxing could teach you... Boy, you must suck at a fight IRL

>>2097999
This. You have to be a little bit crazy
Eskrima/Kali/arnis or what the fuck is calles now, looks really respectable and to the point. No floppy bullshit just stab the guy a lot

>>2096769

>marital arts

>>2101196
My superior Nippon training will destroy you silly gaining without respect for ancient Chinese knowledge.

The instant I close the gap you're finished, kid

https://youtu.be/LNSFoNtZa1k

>>2096763
It's more just that the chinks are more autistic than us about muh culture. Look at tea ceremony and calligraphy and stuff like that, they romanticize all sorts of old stuff not just fighting

>>2101236
Its funny because the fat guy didnt even feel the punch. He turns around while the guy tries to choke him like "did you see that right?"

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>>2096763

For those actually interested in actual history and discussion here are perhaps the oldest known videos of Japanese martial arts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN9SDF05nX0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCswO3to8Ns

>>2096763
They did
Europeans just aren't into spiritual crap outside of church

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>>2096763
They did, then moved on and forgot them for a while, then rediscovered them.

There were fencing schools right up until the early 20th century for military sabre and smallsword and stuff.

>>2101801
I am no expert I'm pretty sure old hema texts contain references to God and various pseudoscientific theories.

>>2101634
neat

>>2101837
Most refer to their faith in the introductions, but they don't include religion in their teachings, and the plays don't have some symbolic meaning like asian martial arts. The symbolic meaning of Fiore's system is killing a fucker dead.

>>2101845
the Asian Kata sometimes have symbolic meaning, but its only one meaning. They are still primarily pattern drills to teach you to kill someone with a sword or other weapon. A single form might have multiple techniques and meanings.