Explain the Trinity to me, /his/.

Is there anything in the Old Testament at all that supports the trinity?

It's never explained by the people who say they believe it. How can anyone else possibly explain it?

>>2091686
The fact that God refers to Himself as "us" in Genesis and that Elohim is a plural noun.

it´s like water, God can be liquid, solid or vapor

>>2091695
Nice try but that is actually known as the "modalist" heresy.

I can explan it using Mystic Christianity(Perrenial Philosophy variety)

The Father is the Godhead. The Godhead is the totality of existence. Everything is God.

The Son is a human who is aware of his Divinity

The Holy Spirit, is a subjective replication (literal translation, Divine Mind), of the Godhead's mind in the Son.

>>2091679
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three forms that God can take. When he rules over Heaven and watches over the earth, listening to prayers he is the Father. When he is performing miracles on earth, appearing to people in their dreams etc. he's the Holy Spirit. When he's Jesus, he's the son. The trinity is just the form that he takes. The whole thing is mainly there to emphasize the role of God in the world and how he takes on different, often mysterious roles

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>>2091679
Three distinct persons "hypostases", united in the substance "ousia" which is called Divinity.

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Its a divine mystery that can only be accepted by revelation and faith and not logic and reason.

>>2091695
Thats modalist heresy mate

>>2091702
>>2091699

>>2091679
Well the Idea does "solve" the whole "How can God be Omnipotent, Omniscient and allow evil?" argument that Fedora's employ.
Not saying I agree with a trinity. Its basically polytheism and it feels wrong to call Hindus polytheistic if Christians believe in this separated God as well.

>>2091702
You realize that this argument caused the biggest schism in Christianity?

>>2091679
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw

>>2091711
I don't think God is benevolent. I think he allows the suffering and plight of humans.

I think God's nature is one of benevolence, and he corrupts his own nature to allow human's with free will and the universe to exist. This corruption must be atoned for, which he does in the person of Jesus Christ.

>>2091686
Yes. From Genesis 1, aside from the Elohim reference (a plural word used in the singular sense), you see the Spirit hovering over the face of the deep.

And from Corinthians, we know that Jesus created everything, and without Jesus, nothing was created.

So when Elohim spoke, it was Jesus speaking.

Here's the model I use. Imagine Flatland. You're a 2D character trying to figure out what a cube is. I have told you that I have a 6 sided cube with different colored sides, but all you can see are six different squares. You do not have sufficient dimensions to yourself to see that the six different colored squares are really just one cube.

So you have to take my word for it, because I see the entire cube, and I know you can only see in 2D.

>>2091719
Not really. It separated the wheat from the chaff.

>>2091739

Do you think it's possible that the suffering and plight have reasons behind them? That they might cause some benefit that outweighs their cost?

In a universe where anything is possible, is that possible?

>>2091679
ALMSIVI

>>2091768
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/v/

>>2091739
I believe that as well.

>>2091756
This mentality is why Christians will never know more than very momentary peace.

>>2091773
>Christians will never know more than very momentary peace.
Romans 5:1

>>2091760
Yes I do have metaphysical theories to those quandaries.

Firstly, I think that the reason is virtue. A human being who chooses to do good under his own volition(given the freedom to disobey), is qualitatively superior to the goodness of someone who is forced to do good.

I also think another form of virtue is work ethic. Human beings live in a system where they have to work to survive and are more virtuous than immortal angels.

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>>2091771
>not funposting about tes lore

>>2091773
I'm the first poster.
This notion of Divine Sacrifice purifying the act of creation exists in Hinduism. It is known as the Purusha Myth.

>>2091773
That's okay. We'll know peace when we go home.

>>2091780
This is what Paul had to say in Romans 5

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

>>2091679
god = all
The father =/= The son/but = god

Kek.

>>2091792
The act of creation had no need to be purified. God declared everything in creation good on Day Six, and rested on Day Seven.

>>2091679
God is actually a third of God.

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>>2091679
God is the computer that runs the universe and the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are programs that the computer likes to run to fuck with us.

>>2091817
What does that make the person/people that made the computer or run it?

>>2091834
They would be God's God.

>>2091817
So God is the computer and the trinity is the OS?
I'm so confused.

>>2091844
What about their universe? Is it simulations all the way up?
http://cosmology.carnegiescience.edu/timeline/1610/turtles-all-the-way-down

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>>2091701
I can ascribe to this.

>>2091706
>"God is three persons rather than one but each of them is equally God"
Cease this drivel at once.

>>2091868
No. God is the computer, the universe is the OS.
The Trinity are programs that the computer runs to fuck around with us, the lines of code.

>>2091872
Yup.
There probably is a computer that began it all somehow, but who cares? That's not our God. That's God's God's God's (etc) God.

>/his/ - /HeretIcS/

>>2091918
>Don't pray to me or my God or my God's God or my God's God's God ever again.

>>2091690
That's because early incarnations of Yahweh involved him being a part of a Canaanite pantheon, specifically as the southern warrior god.

God separated out his Word and his Love into independent components. The Word was put into a single human in place of a soul, whereas the Love was placed into every single human. What remains in the Father is Justice.

>>2091936
Read the Meshe Stele so you can distinguish between YHWH, the God of the Jews, and Chemosh, the god of the canaanites, a demon that you apparently worship.

>The eternal God had a beginning! As a demon!

Never disappoint, /his/.

>>2091939

Is that Warhammer?

'cause it ain't God.

>>2091936
blasphemy

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>>2091953
>>2091964
Lol wait until you guys find out Jacob really did sacrifice Isaac

>>2091780
> Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to ... You know that we will rule angels, not to mention things in this life, don't you?

>>2091984

You mean Abraham?

>>2091986
Yeah mixed up one kike name with another
But he seriously did
Child sacrifice was a feature of early Near East religions
Notice how all the adventures of Isaac sound like the adventures of Abraham. Isaac isn't even treated as a real person really in the scripture.

>>2091985
Hmm that doesn't make much sense.

>>2092001

Isaac had kids after that event, and those kids had kids, and eventually Jesus was born.

So, no. Your anti-semetism is going to cost you everything you have.

And one of the things you have available to you is taking their inheritance for yourself.

>>2092003
Humans on their own are not more virtuous than the angels who kept their first estate.

And it's debatable if humans are more evil than the fallen angels, or less.

We're two entirely different kinds of beings; the judge angels verse was intended to discourage believers from suing each other in secular courts.

>>2092005
Yeah? So the sum of his life was just
>got pranked by my dad
>gon have me some kids
>ones gonna be a fucking goon
>the other is gonna be a conniving rat
And that's all the Scripture says about Isaac, am I correct?

>>2092015
It doesn't paint a very rosy picture about him, no. After he consented to be killed, and then spared, not much is said about him other than his marriage to his cousin. That he favored Esau over Jacob is also ponderous, considering the blessing Jacob received at his birth.

Which is yet another reason the bible is the greatest book of all time. It tells the unvarnished truth.

>>2091679
Spooks and cognitive dissonance to justify having all of the perks of polytheism while still calling it monotheism.

>>2092041
blasphemy

>>2092041

One God manifesting himself as three persons in order that we might get to know him a little better.

From Above
From Beside
From Within

>>2092041
>person = being

>>2092031
Modern scholarship believes that in later periods, the Hebrews started to shun child sacrifice and decide that this didn't reflect well on them at all so they revised the narrative so that Isaac is spared. Of course they couldn't be fucking bothered to at least make up some new content. Easier to copy and paste.

>>2092050
Isaac was in his early 30's when the incident occurred, and did not have children until much later.

He was obviously not sacrificed.

The entire event was obviously a presaging of another descendant of Abraham trudging up the very same mountain, also carrying wood on his back, going to his death at the request of the father, consenting, and then NOT being spared at the last moment.

Take the bible as God's own truth. It will save you a lot of time and grief.

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>>2092050
>Modern scholarship

>>2092059
Or you know, you can see it as an evolving set of ideas that adapts to its surroundings and has successfully transplanted itself in almost every country in the world because it gives the poor and disenfranchised some measure of hope?
No religion remains static for very long. If it did, no one would relate to it and it would die out.

>>2092081
>you can see it as an evolving set of ideas
But then you'd be wrong

>>2092047
>manifesting

aka polytheism, manifestation isn't something Christianity invented, Hinduism and Shintoism are pros at it, among others

The difference is that they call these manifestations "gods" while Christians are like "NUH UH THEY'RE THE SAME GOD". I guess Hinduism is actually monotheistic because Brahman.

>that we might get to know him a little better

aka personal gods aka polytheism

Like I said, cognitive dissonance.

>>2092081
Bible hasn't changed for 3500 years.

>>2092090
>person = being
'no'

>>2092077
>Although child sacrifice was adamantly condemned in various later layers of the Bible, there's plenty of evidence that it was probably practiced in different quarters throughout the period of the monarchy.
http://oyc.yale.edu/transcript/948/rlst-145

>>2092096
Not an argument.

>>2092090
It's not cognitive dissonance, and the eastern religions who think Jesus was just an avatar are as wrong about him as you are.

Hinduism is literally anything.

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>>2092093
>>2092085
Nice bait

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>>2092097
>Modern "scholarship"

>>2092100
>It's not cognitive dissonance

Whatever you say buddy. If all you can say is "NUH UH" then there's really nothing more to say. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, has the DNA of a duck, can breed with another duck to make more ducks, but the duck doesn't believe it's a duck, it's still a fucking duck.

>>2092112
Not an argument
>>2092099
You're just assuming Unitarianism to prove Unitarianism. You can't even explain the existence of mathematics without the Triune God

>>2092130
???

>>2092120
Well the person who said that is more qualified than some Midwestern or Pennsylvanian hillbilly posting from his family computer while preparing a nice hit of meth before they move on to molest their cousin who will grow up to be a stripper named Kandi.

>>2092138
Not an argument.

>>2092139
euphoric

>>2092112
I phrased it awkwardly. I'll try again.

From 3500 years ago to 1900 years ago, when the bible was written and faithfully copied, it has not changed.

>>2092129
I already explained the trinity above.

That you lack the necessary spiritual discernment to understand the explanation is not my concern. There is no "Christianity for Dummies".

>>2091679
Friend, your local tabernacle has all the answers you need! The Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints is more than happy to answer all of your questions! :)

>>2092174
>t. Hasn't read the CES letter.

>>2092174
Blasphemous polytheist heretics

>>2092174
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a3eJC3qAFU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46PXaJxzuDE

>>2092185
Well I'm sorry you feel that way! I wish I could help out. Maybe you should go to your local tabernacle and join us in worship! We play a great game of basketball after service.

For those who don't believe in the trinity, why, then, on the cross, did Jesus look up and ask, "Father, why have you forsaken me?"

For those that do believe in the trinity, can you also explain to me why Jesus said this? It seems odd to me either way, I'm just interested in the answers.

>>2092202
Or you could spend your time wisely and google the CES letter, and read it.

Then you can read the opposition, and the rebuttal.

If at the end of it you're not firmly convinced that the scoundrel you call a prophet was not a liar, plagiarist, bigamist and con man, then you're well and truly lost.

>>2092206
God cannot abide sin. God cannot look upon sin.

Jesus, who knew no sin, became sin. He took all of our sin onto himself. Yours, mine, Hitler's, everyone's. He literally became sin.

At that moment, the Holy Spirit fled and the Father turned his back. The sun went dark and the earth quaked. The veil of the temple rent from top to bottom, and the centurion overlooking the crucifixion declared that they had indeed just crucified the son of God.

For those hours Jesus hung on the cross enduring the wrath of God, he was out of communication with the Spirit and the Father. That's why he said MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY DO YOU FORSAKE ME.

And then, when it is finished, again with Father: Father, into thine hands do I commit my Spirit. And on the third day, Jesus rose from the dead and was elevated to the right hand of God the Father, and now has all authority over everything, and position above all things, but for the Father.

The war is over.

Love won.

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>>2091679
"The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."

The Holy Trinity is consubstantial; three persons in one God.

"He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not modes of divinity; they are distinct persons; this is shown in their origins relative to each other.

"In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."

The divinity is not equally divided three separate ways. Rather, all three are all of one substance (one God). Distinction between these persons rests upon their relationships with each other.

"The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith"."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p2.htm

>>2092244
>three persons in one God

>papists confirmed polytheists

>>2092244
Also I forgot to make this clear: it is a mystery. It is the mystery of divinity, the most unknowable and most incomprehensible for the mere mortal mind.

>>2092250
They are all one God. They are not aspects, they are not modes of divinity. There is only one divinity.

Honestly, I don't want to argue about this stuff that we've been arguing over since the Council of Nicea. You believe what you want to believe, heretic.

>>2092227
My friend, I have a faith as strong and as deep-rooted as Daniel in the lion's den. I have heard all the arguments the atheist and the anti-Mormon establishment has to offer, and my faith will not be shaken now. I know in my heart that the words of our prophet Joseph Smith are true and healing. I earnestly wish for all the people of the Earth to hear his testimony and be saved. I only ask you give us a chance.

>>2092281
how did you come to be a mormon?
born into it?

>>2092258
>They

Yes, He is one God.

You might want to meet him, soon.

>>2092291
Sixth generation Mormon. My forefathers moved to Utah in 1846 with Joseph Smith. We have deep roots here.

>>2092281
>t Refuses to read the CES Letter.

Dude, you're basically in Islam for Whitey.

Jesus and Lucifer are not both created beings God made. There was no competition to see which one had the better plan of salvation.

Marrying 40 women, some teenagers, and some still married to your followers, makes you a douchebag, not a truthteller.

>>2092319
>Meadow Massacre

kek

"roots"

>>2092319
what do you think of 4chan? why do you come here?

>>2092319
are you a missionary?

>>2092336
Of course he is. Probably being sodomized right now.

>Captcha: Serve Jesus Christ The Risen Savior

>>2092325
I would ask you not to make that comparison and not to say such things about whoever you are referring to.

>>2092329
That was an unfortunate misunderstanding. Up until then, we were persecuted for our beliefs and even killed for our convictions. I had ancestors who participated in that battle.

>>2092334
I have heard that this is something of a chatroom and thought this was a good way to talk to people. I attempted to post on your politics board but I was ridiculed and the filthiest language was directed towards me and my community. I don't think I will go there again.

>>2092334
No, my friend. I finished my missionary duties four years ago! I ended up in New York and Philadelphia.

>>2092379
A man who received a new revelation about what really happened to Jesus from an angel, many centuries after the fact.

A religion started by that man to spread this new gospel about a different Jesus to the entire world.

A religion that focuses very much on family, keeping family units strong, and making many children to populate the world.

And a leader known to have sex with children, and many wives.

Islam? Or Mormonism?

>>2092379

>Meadow Massacre

>Murdering innocent people and framing the native Indians.

>"unfortunate misunderstanding"

>>2092362
Gross!

>>2092390
A large family is a blessing from God. Did he not promise that our children will be as uncountable as the stars in the sky? I do not see anything wrong with that.
I will not comment on your last sentence.

>>2092394
Yes, it was misunderstanding. We were apprehensive of outsiders coming into our lands and seeking to extirpate our infant faith. And the men in charge that day failed to obey the church leadership. John Lee paid for it with his life.

>>2092424
>I will not comment on your last sentence.

(It's both.)

Massacres are not misunderstandings. They're the heinous acts of murderous thugs.

You think you need Joe Smith's signature on a certificate to get into heaven.

Your spiritual discernment is literally zero.

>>2092436
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but it seems we cannot agree on anything
I don't feel very welcome here either. I think I will find some other board to chat on.
God bless and I hope you will one day come into the light! :)

>>2092465

I would wish you godspeed, but the bible forbids it.

Read the CES letter.

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>>2091679
>Trinity
>Wanting to hear about it

>>2092550
That's Athanasius

>>2092250
The trinity is biblical

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>>2092746
lolno

>>2092243
>Jesus, who knew no sin, became sin. He took all of our sin onto himself. Yours, mine, Hitler's, everyone's. He literally became sin.


What does this mean though? Can you summarize why this was necessary and how it happened?

>>2092764
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAcDV270D_0

>>2092379
>I attempted to post on your politics board but I was ridiculed and the filthiest language was directed towards me and my community. I don't think I will go there again.

kek

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>>2091679
never has this picture been more appropriate

>>2091679
Jesus is god's body and soul

It's a meme that was used as patch work, when christians realized that their religion was absurd.

>>2093975
euphoric

It's like if you can time travel and present you can met with you from the past and you from future in the same room.

>>2093978
The only one who is euphoric here is you. Study the history of your religion, about what people of the past argued in The First Council of Nicaea.

>>2093993
that heretics existed?

So... Is it closer to God suffering from split personality or same fagging as three trip fags?

>>2093993
>implying first nicaea dealt with the trinity

Try harder.

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>>2094013
It dealt with it in round about way.

>>2092814
Is that InspiringPhilosophy?

ROFL

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMI4rA4cuiM

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>>2091690
Moses never spoke English, he speaks Jewish.

In the eastern language(arabic, jewish, ect), there are two types of plural, plural of number and plural of RESPECT. That 'us' is plural of respect. Google it.

So, there are no supporting evidence in the Old Testament that support Trinity.

Ever heard of the Revised Standard version Bible? It is based on oldest Bible manuscript and closest to the time of Jesus, closer than the King James version.

The word 'Trinity' was thrown out in the Bible as an interpolation by Christians Scholars of the highest rank. Meaning that the teaching of Trinity was added to the Bible by someone. A corrupted text.

>>2094126
Or am I missing something?

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>>2094126
>>2094144
Fine don't read my post, but just keep the thread alive.

Talk about grass or something.

>>2094210
It's a slow board.

>>2091679
god is the son, the father , and the holy spirit ....

>>2094126
Moses never existed and it's Hebrew or Aramaic.

There is no 'closest to Jesus' time' as the earliest Gospel was written in 70+ AD and John was written 100+ AD plus the first canon wasn't compiled until way after that

Do you know anything about Biblical scholarship?

>>2094126
>Moses never spoke English, he speaks Jewish.
Jewish isn't a language, and Moses was an Egyptian speaker
>The word 'Trinity' was thrown out in the Bible as an interpolation
The word trinity does not appear in the bible

>>2094269
euphoric

>>2094087
Catholics aren't Christian

>>2094273
This is all you say the entire time. Are you retarded?

>>2094252
Sorry I'm knew

>>2094279
*new

>>2094274
Bitch please. They believe in Jesus as God, and they believe in the Bible.

>>2094284
>they believe in the Bible.
lmao

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>>2094284
> they believe in the Bible

>>2094293
>>2094299
Well they do? How can you claim they don't?

I'm not even a Christian let alone a Catholic, but I will never understand this theological balkanization and hair splitting.

>>2094302
They could care less what the bible says. They believe the bible only when it says things their "church" also happens to say.

>>2094302
They think them following Mystery cult doctrines is against the Bible when Christianity started as a Mystery cult

>>2094293
>>2094299
>>2094307
But it's written in the Bible that Peter had full control of shit and he decided to establish said Church passing his power down the line of Popes. You are all heretics to be honest.

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>>2094269
Moses is a great man. He exists. Yeah the original was written as early as you said, but we haven't found manuscript that old yet, the oldest and closest to the time of Jesus are the revised standard version(RVS). The scholar is in pic related.

>>2094270
Sorry, he speaks Hebrew. 'Elohim' is Hebrew, and a plural of respects.

>trinity was not in the bible
Yes, but still many Christians practice this belief

>>2094313
Book, chapter and verse, please.

>>2094314
>Yes, but still many Christians practice this belief
That's because the trinity is taught in the bible. Scripture is clear there is one God, there are three distinct persons, and each person is fully God.

>>2094314
You don't understand half of what I'm saying, do you? Do you even know when Jesus is supposed to have died?

>>2094307
>They could care less what the bible says. They believe the bible only when it says things their "church" also happens to say.

As opposed to what? Believing only what Martin Luther said?

>>2094331
>As opposed to what?
The bible

>>2094336
Well, you're obviously lying if you say being a Catholic means not caring what the Bible says.

>>2094342
No, they don't. In fact, they claim no one can know what the bible says and it's pointless to try. They only care what the bible says when it doesn't contradict what their pope says.

>>2091679
God is three consubstantial persons (or hypostases), the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; "one God in three Divine Persons". The three persons are distinct, yet are one substance, essence or nature. In this context, a "nature" is what one is, whereas a "person" is who one is.

>>2094323
S-sorry, I misunderstand you. But yeah, there're no written bible in the time of Jesus, but there're in the time of the disciples, but we haven't even found any manuscript closer to the time of disciples than the Revised Standard Version.

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3 minds in 1 body?
3 people in 1 room?
3 members in 1 club?
Am I doing this right /his/?

>>2094354
The RSV is a translation, not an ancient Greek manuscript.

>>2094354
Do you mean the RSV translated the Earliest Manuscript evidence we have for an entire Bible and it's the closest to the time of the apostles? That could be hundreds of years though

Most of what they have are fragments for the earliest manuscripts

>>2094370
Yes, the 'oldest' and 'closest' to the times of disciples.

But the point I'm trying to make is the verse trinity is not in the 'closest' manuscript to the time of disciples.

Thus that only meant that it is an interpolation, a corrupted text, but the Christians still believed today.

>>2094377
Which verse with the Trinity? The one where Matthew says "The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit?"

>>2094377
You don't know anything about textual criticism

>>2094370
The RSV, along with all the modern translations, is based on the critical text, which is based on which manuscripts have the greatest weight. The earliest manuscript we have of the New Testament is from about 30 years after the original was written.

>>2094384
John 5 : 7 :
there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

This was taken out from the King James Version and viewed as interpolation by Christians Scholars of the highest eminent. And based on this verse alone the Trinity concept was born.

>>2094395
I'm just following your highest Scholars, in pic >>2094314.

OOooOOOooo! me me i got this one.

ok so the father is your dad but in this sence hes the holy spirit cause well you know.
ok now your mom is god cause she basiclly makes you and when your born she feeds you from her boobies and you are the son thus the holy trinity is a personal trinity.

>>2094421
Please kill yourself

>>2094421
Dude that explains everything. Now ppl like to boast and say theirs is better. 1 chrismatic person can convenice a group of ppl to follow him and thus RELIGION... ummm maybe not...

>>2094415
>And based on this verse alone the Trinity concept was born.
Holy shit, you're historically illiterate. 1 John 5:7 doesn't appear until the high middle ages, the council of Nicaea which defined the doctrine of the trinity was in 325 AD

>>2094423
lol yea hes silly but i guess the first ppl could of thought like that? if its just you and your parents there

>>2094435
So is it a new concept or was it always around

>>2094435
Fuck me right?

So.... What're you trying to say? Trinity was a new teaching? Jesus never taught that?

>>2094454
It was always around, since the apostles.

>>2094457
He did, as did His apostles.

When a God and his Creation love each other very much...

>>2094421
>>2094431
>>2094443
who are you kidding

>>2094463
Show me in your Bible which verse supports your claim

>>2094463
>He did
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA EVIDENCE PLEASE

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>>2094471
You filthy uretra, this is why we can't have civilized discussion. Just let him answer.

>>2094475
Are you a gril?

>>2094470
>>2094471
John 8:58

>>2094480
In what way does that support the fact that he taught the Trinity?

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>>2094470
....'I am'...... what?

If he is truly god, the he should said 'I am God'.

>>2094490
Meant for>>2094480

>>2094487
>literally a claim of deity
>>2094490
Exodus 3:14

>>2094496
So? What does that have to do with the Trinity? All it is, is him claiming to be YHVH, not the son of YHVH

>>2094503
>him claiming to be YHVH
Right, and according to the trinity He is YHWH

>>2094514
No, in that verse, according to him he's YHVH

Wow I can't believe people are still arguing for the trinity in the Bible, even fucking Catholic scholars will concede the Trinity is a later innovation that attempted to avoid polytheism

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>Using John to support claims of Jesus' teachings even though it's clearly hugely anachronistic and written by someone when Christianity was defined as something not Jewish despite the other Gospels and Paul's letters not supporting this

>>2094514
Where does the holy ghosts fit in? Trinity is three, not two.

>>2094542
He's gonna quote the "I will send one in my place" verse

>>2094549
You mean that ONE 'spirit' in the thousands of church denomination that lead them all over the place? Instead of one path? That 'spirit' in you right now?

>>2094560
There's no spirit in me, senpai, I don't believe in spirits

>>2094585
Then who's the third in trinity? Who's the one in >>2094549 quote?

>>2094603
The Holy spirit, that's not to say that I think it's real

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...you can't do that. You Christians are bound to that book. Either you accept all of those as the Word of God or admit that part of it are corrupted while others aren't.

>>2091679
IT JUST WERKS
OKAY?
Praise Kierkegaard.

>>2094630
I need to learn /his/ memes

>>2094631
Kierkegaard is essentially le leap of faith guy

>>2094496
You mean the 'I AM WHO I AM', and this is related to Jesus, 'I AM'?

So... does that mean Jesus is God just because God and Jesus use the same YHVH?

Look, if God in exodus stated his name in "I AM WHO I AM", then it should be, "I AM WHO YHVH". But that's not the case, seeing that God used the same YHVH(I AM) two times. So, "I AM WHO I AM" makes more sense than "YHVH WHO YHVH".

And Jesus said "YHVH", meaning "I AM". Does that mean that he's claiming divinity? No.

Let's say my name is "SwagMaster999", and there are people looking for me and ask me, "Are you SwagMaster999?". I would say 'I AM', but does that mean I'm claiming divinity? Of course not, just answering his question.

And also, if "YHVH" is truly a name, then your scholars should keep it as "YHVH" instead of translating it as "I AM". But seeing they translates it to "I AM", then it not a name, just "I am", nothing special.

>>2091686
>>2091748
All nonsense, there is no trinity. There is only one God.

The whole trinity nonsense is pagan.

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:"

John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

> Father is greater than I

The trinity contradicts the bible.

>>2094313
You're making shit up.

>>2094739
You're beyond retarded.

>>2094768
Criticizes my fucking wall of text, bitch.

I spent 15 minutes writing that novel. Give me my (You)s.

>>2094739
You seem to be missing the point here, why would Jesus refer to himself as "I am" if not to make some sort of point? Someone wouldn't refer to themselves as "Ehyeh asher ehyeh" (the actual quote) unless they were referring to the burning bush that spoke to Moses.

It would be completely unambiguous to someone reading in the 1st Century. Not to mention the fact that everyone in John straight up tries to kill Jesus for saying it. Why would they try and kill him for just saying a phrase.

>And also, if "YHVH" is truly a name, then your scholars should keep it as "YHVH" instead of translating it as "I AM". But seeing they translates it to "I AM", then it not a name, just "I am", nothing special.

According to pious Jewish usage, you never pronounce those, so you would say something like "the Lord" as a substitute, and that's the way in the Greek Bible it does, since the Greek Bible didn't know what the name was, it just would say "adonai" or "the Lord" or something like that. And so we would use that in the English translation. The scholars think that perhaps the best translation for those four letters, as they occur in Exodus, is being-ness or "I am."

>>2094778
Literally look up what the Jews did after he said it you smelly hebe.

>>2094827
>>2094791
As I said, YHVH is nothing special. It's also makes no sense when "before Abraham was born, *God's name*". It make more sense if "before Abraham was born, I am".

What he is referring to when 'he seen Abraham' is that, we all before we were even born, God has created all of us in the form of spirits(Jesus,me, you, hitler,ect), when it is time for us to come down to earth, our soul is put into the baby in the belly of our mother.

So, Jesus seen Abraham during that time. This is what when he is disputing with the Jews about Abraham and "before Abraham, I am".

This "I am" is merely a 'yes' to the Jew question, "and you have seen Abraham?"

They're in disputes at that time. The Jews were looking for a fight, any excuses will do. So, when Jesus says YHVH, the Jews took this as blasphemy(even they themselves knew it wasn't meant that) and pick stones to throw at him.

>>2094902
But I AM is God's name.

>>2094916
So, why does your scholars translate the YHVH as 'I AM'?

You Christians don't have the right to translate name into something else. YHVH should be YHVH, not I AM.

Unless your scholars knew that YHVH is merely 'I am' itself, which holds nothing special. And that is the case.

I have you know that your scholars are smarter than you and me. I follow your scholar, so why don't you?

>>2094940
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism#Ehyeh_asher_ehyeh

>>2094754
Exactly.

I personally grew up as an Orthodox and was taught that Jesus is the Messiah, never referred to him as God. He is the anointed one, savior of mankind.

I don't refuse the trinity per say; it can serve as a useful means of understanding the nature of God, but I cannot agree with the idea that Jesus the Man is God.

>>2094916
Again, 'before Abraham, *God's name*' make LESS sense than 'before Abraham, I am'.

Agree?

>>2094959
>>2094916

I think you guys are subject to some form of misunderstanding based on language barriers.

>>2094969
I got 5 stars and a headpat from my teacher for my 'extinct language' homework

>>2094944
I'll be back for a moment

>>2094940
They don't translate YHWH as I AM you cuck, they translate YHWH as LORD.

Threads like this one show Christianity as mental illness.

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>>2095002
Anon pls

>>2095003
What illness?

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>>2095002
Anon pls

>>2094944
Fine, let's agree that 'I AM' is 'God's name'.

Then be a man and tell me your honest opinion about "before Abraham, *God's name*"?

Does it even make sense? For Jesus to say *God's name* out of nowhere? Be honest please.

>>2095052
Except it doesn't say YHWH in the original.

>>2095052
It means both literally "I am" and is also a God's name. No idea why this is so hard to comprehend.

>>2095067
Exodus or John? So... no 'I AM'? An interpolation?

>>2095071
Naw, some fine Anon insists that 'I AM' in John is *God's name*.

>>2095075
Exodus. The passage where he talks to Moses. John wasn't even written in Hebrew.

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>>2095100
...I refused to believe that I spent literally hours writing a long ass text about some verse that doesn't even exist in the first place. Fuck me right?

Source, pls?

>>2095100
Or it is not in the RVS?

>>2095114
I have no clue what you're talking about. Where did I say it doesn't exist?

>>2095126
So what you're trying to say is only 'YHVH' was not written in Exodus 3:14, right?

And John 8:58 exist, but wasn't written in Hebrew? John write it in Greek?

>>2095140
Exodus 3:14 says ehyeh asher ehyeh, not YHWH. And yes John was written in Greek.

>>2095114
Are you a gril?

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>>2095164
Ok, I trust you.

So, can we have a gentleman agreement about the claim of 'I am' in John is not a solid proof that Jesus claim he is God?

>>2095213
You know Michael from Vsauce? Look at his arms. And imagine a man that is harier than that arm. That's me.

>>2095225
Oh, because you keep posting cute anime girls

>>2095231
Naw, I'm from /a/, just drop by to see what's up

>>2091679
I'll do my best:

Imagine H2O, it has three states(ice, water, gas). Separate them in three test tubes, one for each states. Mix it up, and drink it.

Is that good enough?

>>2095269
That's modalism Patrick!

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>>2091679
There's one God.

The Father is a god, the Son is a god, and the Holy Ghost is a god.

But there're not three god but one god.

Sorry for my English, but I'm too high.

Friendly reminder that God is also not the author of confusion, as in 1 Corinthians 14:33:

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

And the word Trinity is not even in the Bible.

And John 5 : 7:

there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

This verse is taken out from the Bible as an interpolation. Check the RVS.

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Can someone explain what so bad about modalism? Why did church is so triggered by that explanation?

>>2095357
why does it surprise you that the church would be against any attempts to make sense of the trinity when it's considered to be a mystery that can't be properly understood by humans? it's just another sign the whole thing is horseshit.

>>2095357
see
>>2091706

>>2095357
The same reason they hate partialism. God has to be all three at once, and all three have to be equally God.

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>>2095378
Wait... Actually water can be in all three forms at once. Holy shit! We solved trinity, guys!

>>2095407
It can't be entirely all three at once.

>>2095407
I failed physics

>>2095410
But that is what triple point is! It is like here, in the graph. Or... Do you trying to say that is some sort of physical mystery that could rival the divine one?

>>2095424
i looked it up. that's the point where ice, water, and water vaper can coexist, not where water is in all three states at once

>>2095445
Interesting. But there should be some right analogy that explains thing.

Believe in Trinity /his/. Your salvation depends on it.

>>2095460
It's a divine mystery, it can't be explained.

>>2094739
Did you forget the part where it said "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

>>2095463
Analogy is never a real explanation anyway. Can you even explain anything by saying that it's like another thing, but not exactly like the one that in need of explanation?

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>>2095462

I see four circles. It should be called quadrity.

>>2095469
what about the six rectangles?

>>2095464
Don't you read the whole thread? We /his/ as a whole support Trinity!

>>2095500
Meant for >>2095467

>>2095464
JUST... follow the post until the end, if you care, about your salvation.

Anyone else is sad that we will never read third testament about holy spirit adventures?

>>2094126
>He speaks Jewish
Yo shlomo gimmie yo shekels, muh 6 gurrillion! the shekel shoah

>>2095616
The fuck you say to me? Fite me irl 1v1 bitch!

>>2091679
Christians needed a way to worship both Yahweh and Jesus at the same time while still being monotheistic. They added the Holy Spirit later cuz 'binity' sounds hella gay.

>>2091679
OK, Imagine I have a pizza. I cut that Pizza into 3 slices. Now, I give each slice to a different person. I give the first slice to my dad, the second slice to my brother and I get the third slice. The Pizza I gave to my father, does not belong to me. but, I do not call it my Dad's Pizza. Its just Pizza.

>>2094126
>he speaks Jewish
He wasn't even a Jew and Jewish is not a language.

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>>2091679
The concept is absurd on its face. The only possible defense is to dodge the question by calling it a 'divine mystery'.

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>>2091679

>>2095799
Isaac is the of Abraham, and the Jewish race came from Isaac. Isaac was a great(x?) grandfather of Moses, thus making Moses a Jew.

>>2095799
Fine, Hebrew! I fucked up. Slap me.

>>2095873
Wow, pyramid head really let himself go

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>>2095878
>from Isaac
From Judah, dumbass.

>>2091918
So does that make us bottom bitch in the celestial, computer orgy that we call existence?

>>2095892
Fuck me

>>2095892
>One kid suddenly becomes a Jew, but none of his brothers or his father are.
Wew lad

>>2095892
>>2095799
>>2095616
>make a valid argument
>make small mistake
>/his/ looked but can't contradict shit
>instead attacking the small mistake
ok

>>2095948
Have you perhaps considered I wasn't the guy you replied to and was interested only in correcting this glaring error without guving a single fuck about your overall point?

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>>2095955
...y-you give a fuck about my post? T-thanks!

>tfw believe in God but can't find any faith in Jesus

>>2095892
"Jew" does come from Judah but Jews do not exclusively trace their lineage through Judah. there are still Jews that claim descent from the Zadokite priesthood, which of course is through Aaron, Moses's brother, a Levite. those familiar with the New Testament know that Paul was a Benjamite.

>>2095892
I never understood this shit, what make Judah a Jew but not his father and grandfather?

>>2095977
Because Jew literally means a descendant of Judah.

>>2095983
Oh

>>2095463
It's not that much of a Mystery. Jesus is the body of god and god's agent of creation and the Holy Spirit is the soul of god

The law of 3, Triamazikamno.

>>2091730
Whats wrong with partialism?

>>2097587
Jesus must died as a God so that all mankind sins can be forgiven. Jesus cannot died as a man, because a man cannot carry the sins of the world.

Thus, 'God' died for our sins and suffer in Hades for three days.

Yes, God did all of that. What you're gonna fight me about it?

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>>2098434
Literally gibberish.
Jesus was a man and God is God.
Repent and convert to Arianism.

>>2098622
Jesus being a man makes no sense, since Paul thought of Jesus as god first and not a man

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>>2095818
>CS is absurd

>>2098646
Wouldn't that be a partialist heresy?

>>2091679
Christian mental gymnastics.

>>2098622
Heretic

>>2095357
It's heresy

>>2098677
Make more sense than God dies

Be a man and admit it

>>2098696
God didn't die, His humanity died

>>2098653
No, Threads share memory and are not a rigid segmentation.

>>2098704
God is not a human, how can his humanity die if he's not a human

>>2098718
He took on a human nature in the incarnation

>>2098705
So, but each is not the entirety of the whole thing simultaneously while each being distinct.

>>2098727
Yeah then how'd get back up to heaven?

>>2098646
Each thread is not individually the entire process

>>2098727
What do you mean by nature? That he had a human body?

>>2098739
Read the gospels
>>2098749
He also has a human nature

>>2098762
He was carried up into Heaven. Why did no one write about this anywhere besides the Gospels?

>>2098762
Dude I am ASKING you what you mean by nature. Don't just tell me "human nature."

>>2098786
Argument from silence
>>2098788
Hypostasis

>>2098794
>Hypostasis
LOL so you can't even explain in a few sentences. You don't understand it at all. Christcucks BTFO.

>>2098794
Alright, let me rephrase the question. How did he get carried up if angels have no body?

>>2098801
Not an argument

>>2098810
He's not an angel, angels have bodies, and He has a body.

>>2098819
It says he was carried up, by who? Okay, if angels have bodies, why don't they visit Earth?

>>2098824
>It says he was carried up
Yes, He levitated
>why don't they visit Earth?
Please tell me that's b8

>>2098831
It's not bait, it's a legitimate question

Levitated up? How far?

>>2098844
(You)

>>2098847
Can't answer the question

>>2098831
So heaven is up? where in space is heaven?

>>2098854
(You)

>>2098854
He can't answer the questions

>>2098812
Jesus Christ you're that same Christfag that posts "not an argument" every time you get backed into corner. You are such a little bitch, and a coward to boot too. You can't even argue your own position coherently. No wonder people leave the church is droves every year. It's because retards like you just give confusing bullshit as answers and hope people will get confused and not asked.

So fucking explain what you mean by "human nature" since you throw around that term so fucking carelessly, or GTFO.

>>2098915
He can't answer the questions, stop asking him questions he'll just ignore with a (You)

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You Christians have been worshipping him for thousands of years when Jesus HIMSELF never said he was God or worship him.

Instead, it is the exact opposite of what he's saying:

John 14:48 :
....My Father is greater than I

John 10:29:
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all...

Be a man and hear what Jesus HIMSELF is really trying to say

>>2098731
Each thread can do what the others can do.

>>2099095
But they're still distinct threads. Having something in common with something else doesn't mean that you ARE that thing.

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>>2098704
WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?