Were they the good guys /his/?

>>2078003
No.
The death tolls are astonishing

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>>2078014
the death tolls when they tried moving to capitalism are even more astonishing

>good guys

spook

Absolutely not

>>2078003
Yeah.

>>2078019
Largely due to immigration -- when the economy crashed everybody who was able to move out did so, basically.

Some people did die, yes -- starved, were gunned down by criminals, died of preventable illnesses because they lacked access to treatment, etc. There were far fewer of them than died in even one of the Soviets' artificial famines.

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>>2078003
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

There were no good guys.

>>2078003
Yes. Compare the United Soviet States of Russia to the Russian Federation, and you'll see that million of people died (just look at the difference in population between USSR and Russia) the year they went from communism to capitalism.

>>2078019
Russia is still a socialist country

>>2078536
>United Soviet States of Russia
kek

>>2078057
large immigration also occurred during the communist revolution

>>2078003
Only when compared to Nazis, which is not saying much.

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>>2078019
the death rate is from the growing rates of alcoholism that started as a trend in soviet russia

http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/5/444.short

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK233387/

also your graph ((coincidentally)) leaves out Central Asia's explosive population growth over the last two decades - all of which see a spike after the post communist period.

Hmm, I wonder why that would be?

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>>2080263

>>2080263
>alcoholism is exclusively to blame for post-soviet russia's massive death rate
ok m9

>>2078003
If you believe there were any good guys in the Cold War then you're a special kind of retarded. Both camps were imperialistic, oppressive and murderous while calling the other side imperialistic, oppressive and murderous.

>>2080278
communists are sheep

"BAAAAAAAAA I CAN'T HEAR YOU TOO BUSY WANKING OVER MARX"

>>2080286
...ok?

>>2080263
Not to defend commies but you're a fucking retard buddy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization_in_Russia

>>2080323
>implying having the state in control of the alcohol industry was any better

read. learn to read, faggot. This is /his/. You're not even fielding an argument.

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>>2080350
>>read. learn to read, faggot
Why don't you? >>2080323

>>2078057
According to Wikipedia the number of deaths was in the millions.

>>2078003

no you fucking retard

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>>2080350
>>2080377
rly mks u thnk

Stalin was the only good guy. It all went downhill from there.

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>>2078014

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>>2078003
Why would anybody doubt that?

>>2078003
The Soviets were brutal at home but humane abroad. The Americans were humane at home and brutal abroad.

From a third-works standpoint, the Soviet Union was more benevolent. But after the end of Jim Crow (the legal code that quietly radicalized many black Americans), American life was generally more comfortable than life in the USSR.

>>2080706
North Korea isn't a communist regime by any possible definition

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>>2080729
>The Soviets were humane abroad

I get that Westerners browse this boards, but seriously?

>>2080756
Nowhere near as brutal as Vietnam or the entirety of our history in Latin America.

>>2080729
>The Soviets were humane abroad

Crushing children with tanks and raping everything that moves and can't defend itself is considered humane now?

It's like you are trying to summon tankies

>>2080838
so far this thread contains the exact opposite tbqfh

what do you call anti-commies who appeal to emotion and muh gorrilions killed by commies?

>>2080847
I guess normie applies. We need a leftypol equivalent of /pol/'s "good goy"

>>2080794
Afghanistan was far more brutal than Vietnam.

>>2080856
>We need a leftypol equivalent
no

>>2080847
>what do you call anti-commies who appeal to emotion and muh gorrilions killed by commies?

Birchies

>>2080847
mentally sane

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>>2080729
>Soviets
>HUMANE ABROAD

Ahahaha faggot

>Soviet forces were responsible for 250,000 democidal killings during the war and that the government of Afghanistan was responsible for 178,000 democidal killings.
>There were also a number of reports of large scale executions of hundreds of civilians by Soviet and DRA soldiers.
>Along with fatalities were 1.2 million Afghans disabled (mujahideen, government soldiers and noncombatants) and 3 million maimed or wounded (primarily noncombatants).
>Irrigation systems, crucial to agriculture in Afghanistan's arid climate, were destroyed by aerial bombing and strafing by Soviet or government forces. In the worst year of the war, 1985, well over half of all the farmers who remained in Afghanistan had their fields bombed, and over one quarter had their irrigation systems destroyed and their livestock shot by Soviet or government troops
>The population of Afghanistan's second largest city, Kandahar, was reduced from 200,000 before the war to no more than 25,000 inhabitants, following a months-long campaign of carpet bombing and bulldozing by the Soviets and Afghan communist soldiers in 1987.
>Land mines had killed 25,000 Afghans during the war and another 10–15 million land mines, most planted by Soviet and government forces, were left scattered throughout the countryside. The International Committee of the Red Cross estimated in 1994 that it would take 4,300 years to remove all the Soviet land mines in Afghanistan.

>>2080856
Why the fuck does /leftypol/ want to be like /pol/ so much

>claim to hate someone
>copy everything from him anyway

>>2080906
>muslims
lol who cares

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>>2080906

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>>2078003

Of course.

>>2080910
>America bombs Vietnam
>THINK OF THOSE POOR VIETNAMESE CHILDREN LOOK AT THIS HEARTBREAKING PICTURE OF DEFOLIANT EFFECTS

>USSR bombs Afghanistan
>lol who cares

Afghanistan and Vietnam were almost 100% the exact same situation.

>Superpower A installs a puppet government
>people don't like the puppet government and revolt
>full scale civil war erupts
>Superpower B sees an opportunity and supplies the rebels with weapons especially in rural areas
>Superpower A bombs the entire country to the stone age

You literally can't condemn one while whitewashing the other.

>>2078003
They were the OG SJW's.

Small-time land owners were viewed as the oppressors of the illiterate, uneducated proletariat and therefore they proceeded to strip them of their possessions. As a result millions were killed during rampant famines both in Russia and Ukraine. I won't even begin to mention censorship and other SJW policies put forth in the name of the collective good.

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>>2080932
>Kazakhstan loses 60% of it's population due famine
>NEVER FORGET THE GORRILIONS THAT DIED IN THE UKRAINIAN HOLODOMOR
if you're going to be anti-commie at least make yourself not look like a western shill

captcha related

>>2080942
I don't understand what you mean. Are you questioning the causal relationship between forced agricultural collectivization and famine? Are you questioning the historical accuracy of the death reports? What are you saying.

>>2080971
Basically many commie apologists say that the famine wasn't a deliberate genocide. What they don't realize is this makes it even worse and that it highlights how communist regimes were so fucking incompetent with their agriculture management that their retarded policies involuntarily killed millions of people. Or in other words, communism is an economic catastrophe.

>>2080971
see >>2080984

>>2080984
>commie apologists
can't speak for everyone but personally I despise western meme spouters just as much as I despise commies themself

>>2080863
How so?

>>2080856
Bootlicker, a term whose history goes far beyond that of "good goy"

>>2081000
I still don't understand what you're saying. Do you deny the veracity of what I described and what you call western memes?

>>2078003
No. Ask almost anyone that lived there.

>>2081083
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/majority-of-russians-regret-fall-of-the-soviet-union-poll-56411

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>>2078014
No.

But they should've been.

>>2080910
>who cares
>>2080883

>>2078596
Russia an ultraconservativa free market proponent regime socialist? ru stupid? or do u simply lack any knowledge about politics?

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Good guys don't exist.

>>2078014
Far lower than the capitalist death toll

The idea that they are worse than the U.S is wrong in some ways. There was much more suffering if you lived there than the united states, and they treated other countries bad too, but the united states was causing untold suffering abroad, tipping over countries at the drop of a hat, enacting profound cruelties on entire societies. The United States was just as intent to dominate and loot the world as the soviets, perhaps more so, and had the gall to call it "leading".

Some of they were good, but stupid. The smart ones were evil bastards. Nothing special really.

>>2081357
you mean that one butthurt macro that tries to claim capitalism was responsible for the ~100 million deaths in NA due to smallpox?

lol leftists are scum

I mean they've got a more efficient and pragmatic village-county-region-province-state relation than most places and their bureaucratic standards and achievements are pretty impressive, but you fucks don't really care as long as you get to wave your dicks and meme so who gives a shit.

>>2078003
Always and forever.

Lenin lived. Lenin lives. Lenin will live forever!

>>2080285
Literally kill yourself Trot.

COMMUNISM IS SHIT

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I

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M

I

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H

I

T

YOUR BUTTBUDDY SAFE SPACE MODS CAN'T PROTECT YOUR FEELINGS HERE /leftypol/ CUNTS

>>2081549
true communism has never been tried

>>2081629
And never will be

>>2081379
T H I S

>>2078003
No.

>>2080263
>that started as a trend in soviet russia
Have you wondered what started that trend and what caused it to double after the Soviet Union's collapse?

Could it be *gasp* the Soviet Union's crumbling economy and following that, Russia's transition into makret capitalism and unsuccessful implementation of shock therapy which completely annihilated Russia's economy and gave a rise to enormous poverty?

Hell no, but it turns out we were also the Bad Guys

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>>2081199
Is dis how u reed?

>>2078003
>outright genocide people
>uhhh guys this is kinda ruining our image
>switch to more subtle genocide where they try to destroy entire cultures and ethnic groups via russification
>perfect!

Yes, very swell dudes.

>>2081099
>russians regret the fall of soviet union
lel, what a suprise. I'm sure majority of people in any other ex-soviet state really miss the Soviet Union aswell.

Some of my favorite stories about the USSR come from my old Russian professors. One was natively Latvian and lived in the Latvian SSR until she and her husband managed to get out in the late 80s.

The Soviet Union had programs to incentivize people to have large families. They didn't work very well, because life (especially for women) was stressful enough even with 1-2 kids, and the rewards (pension plans, goods that most people didn't have access to, etc) didn't kick in until you had a minimum of 5, a pipe dream for 99% of the population, but there were other ways to get access to these incentives; for example, being very ill or disabled.

Enter my prof. When she was about 30 she noticed she was tired all the time, no matter how much she slept, and she got her husband to take her to the doctor. He was waiting for her in the next room when he heard her burst into tears. He rushed in and learned the doctor had just diagnosed her with type 2 diabetes. The twist? They were tears of joy. Being diabetic entitled her to shop at the Mother Heroine stores, normally reserved for women who'd had like 8-10 (!) kids (and also reserved for certain party members), that actually occasionally stocked the fucking goods they were supposed to have and didn't have constant hour-long lines snaking through the whole fucking store. Effectively it meant several more hours of free time each week, and a much healthier, varied diet, so her effective quality of life went way up.

That's not a joke. It sounds like one of those "Such is life in Latvia" jokes from reddit, but it actually happened. The Soviet Union was so shitty that BEING DIAGNOSED WITH DIABETES was one of the happiest moments of a woman's life.

>>2083237
>soviet cleansing of muzzie "cultures" wasn't justified
wew

No. Read the Black Book of Communism.

Another quick story -- when they got to America, the first thing she and her husband did was book a bunch of medical appointments. Her husband went to the dentist and no sooner did he open his mouth than the dentist went "Oh," called over a bunch of his trainees and said, "This is a Soviet mouth," and they all crowded around to look at the poor guy's horrible fucking teeth. Because although he'd gone to the dentist regularly in Latvia, standards of care weren't very good there, and he just had THAT many crowns and fillings and other stuff that had gone completely untreated.

The Soviet Union was a lot of things, a few of them pretty good, a lot of them very bad. But in general it wasn't a nice place to live, dudes. I mean, there's Putin's quote -- anybody who doesn't regret the collapse of the Soviet Union has no heart, but anybody who wants it back has no brain. I suspect most Russians (certainly most of the ones I know) would agree, whatever that survey linked above says.

Good guys don't go down in history as villains

>>2083365
>thinking Central Asian and Volga Muslims are the same as the ones in the Middle East

>>2080984
Nazis killed people who they thought were inferior, commies killed people through sheer incompetence and meme-tier economic theories

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>>2083390
But they do

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>>2078003
#notmyworkerstate

>>2080271
The Aral Sea has only been receding since the end of the Soviet Era.
So what exactly is your point?

>>2080271
>mfw early Bolsheviks conceited few environmentalists
And they were all purged by Stalin

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>>2081549
stay mad, bootlicker