New World civilizations

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Top view from the massive pyramid of the sun in Teotihuacan, with people climbing it.

>>2077152
>Why this dint happen in Australia?
same as why it didn't happen in Africa
look at their skin color

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TIKAL Maya site

No Babylon no sumer no ancient Egypt and Greece. They really achieved a lot on their own.

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>>2077152
Inca stone bridge in Warawtampu

>>2077152
>Why this dint happen in Australia?
Maize, squash, potatoes, etc.

There were no crops in Australia, and before you blame race for that remember that New Guineans are the same race and they did develop agriculture.

i don't think australia was ever as densely populated as mesoamerica was. agriculture never really took off in the former either.

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The last inca rope bridge, they redo it every three years or so
Here is a nice video of how they do it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dql-D6JQ1Bc

Australia is a horrible place to live where everything is venomous and it has terrible soil for growing anything. The climate is dry and inhospitable. When it isn't it's just some useless rainforest.

>>2077313
There's a lot of good land in Australia, but it's useless without crops and livestock introduced from outside. The only way Australia could have ever done anything would be if the Austronesians had bothered with the place.

>>2077178
Native americans are dark brown skinned

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>>2077152
>Unique isolated development. Also Lets share some native sites
;_;

>>2077178
Fuck off /pol/.

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>>2077351
not all natives have the same skin tone, some can be pretty light skinned, the ache people of paraguay for example or extinct chachapoyans, the spanish conquistador Cieza de Leon wrote: they are the whitest and most handsome of all the people that I have seen in Indies, and their wives were so beautiful that because of their gentleness, many of them deserved to be the Incas' wives.

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Cliff Palace, Mesa Verde

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>>2077575

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>>2077577

>>2077379
Was destroying it necessary? I remember reading the Spaniards wrecked it with cannons during the conquest. Don't suppose there's any chance they'd have moved in and just renovated and re-purposed the buildings if it'd been less heavily damaged, is there?

>>2077152
>Why didn't it happen in Australia
Aboriginals didn't often build large structures, mostly build shelters and tents. They also moved around a lot.

>>2077328
>There's a lot of good land in Australia
What, in a narrow band to the south where there has been volcanism? Most of the continent is horribly lacking in minerals like phosphorous due to the continental shelf being so damned old. All the phosphorous has been washed away. Australian farmers have to load their fertilizer up with the stuff.

>>2077536
Columbus often called the caribbean native chiefs white, just because they were the kangs among the natives.
no WE itt pls

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>Why didn't this happen in Australia?

>>2077178
It definitely raises the question- whowdid the Central Americans, a people who had to migrate to Central America from Asia, adapt, had no available beasts of burden- how did they manage to surpass all of sub-Saharan Africa culturally, technologically, architectural, and scientifically?

>>2077152
>>2077716
Australoids are the most primitive race, they're sub-nog. Native Americans are actually Mongloids, so they're more than capable of upholding civilization.

>>2077731
I was referring to Sub-Saharan Africans but yes, you're right.

>>2077737
As Mongoloids they're still well above nogs.

>>2077240
nice, never seen one like that before

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>>2077379
I know that longing

>>2077246
Was not corn developed from some wild grass or something? crops were cultivated and improved by generations not found like that in nature. Why that never happen in the australian continent?

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>>2077379
>>2077598

"Native Australia had no farmers or herders, no writing, no metal tools, and no political organization beyond the level of the tribe or band. Those, of course, are the reasons why European guns and germs destroyed Aboriginal Australian society. But why had all Native Australians remained hunter/gatherers? "-Jared Diamond

>>2077152
Desolate wasteland versus lush, resource bountiful forests
Hmm, I wonder...

>>2077879
Because Australia legitimately is the hardest continent outside of Antarctica to survive in. The vast majority of its soil is completely unsuited for any form of agriculture, and it is overrun with extremely, EXTREMELY dangerous animals.

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>>2077178
Their skin is dark so? They are clearly a different people than african negros. native americans are dark skinned as well. Race theories are bullshit

>>2077178
your bait worked

On mainland Australia no animal other than the dingo was domesticated, however domestic pigs were utilised by Torres Strait Islanders. The typical Aboriginal diet included a wide variety of foods, such as pig, kangaroo, emu, wombats, goanna, snakes, birds, many insects such as honey ants, Bogong moths and witchetty grubs. Many varieties of plant foods such as taro, coconuts, nuts, fruits and berries were also eaten.

>>2077379
Can you post the full version of the top two pics?

>>2077432
/pol/ hates the native americas though, OP either is legimately asking or is a precolumbianeaboo wanting to show off native american stuff

>>2077152
>Why this didnt happen in Australia?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-stick_farming

on cannibalism
Family units usually consisted of three children. Brough Smyth, a 19th century researcher, estimated that in Victoria about 30% of the births resulted in infanticide.Mildred Dickeman concurs that that figure is accurate in other Australia tribes as a result of a surplus of the birthrate. Cannibalism was observed in Victoria at the beginning of the 20th century. The Wotjo tribe, as well as the tribes of the lower Murray River, sometimes killed a newborn to feed an older sibling.

Thomas Robert Malthus wrote that, in the New South Wales region, when the mother died sucking infants were buried alive with her.In the Darling River region, infanticide was practiced "by a blow on the back of the head, by strangling with a rope, or chocking with sand".

In Queensland a tribal woman could have children after the age of thirty. Otherwise babies would be killed.

The Australian Aranda tribes in the Northern Territory used the method of choking the newborn with coal, sand or kill her with a stick.

According to James George Frazer, in the Beltana tribes in South Australia it was customary to kill the first-born.

Twins were always killed by the Arrernte in central Australia. In the Luritcha tribe occasional cannibalism of young children occurred.

Aram Yengoyan calculated that, in Western Australia, the Pitjandjara people killed 19% of their newborns.

>>2077152
>no burden animals
>no good soil
>big ass desert separating tribes

>>2077731
>are actually mongoloid

Not at all, they are as related to Chinks as they are to Scandis basically, they're their own racial cluster

>>2078371
tl:dr
to busy burning the land and eating each other to build decent civilization

>>2078378
The native americans didn't have burden animals either

>>2077379
Don't remind me...Fucking Cortes

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Recently rediscovered Choquequirao ruins, akin to Machu Picchu

Are there any good documentaries to watch on central/southern american civilizations?

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>>2077152
>Why this dint happen in Australia?
Aboriginal tribes lived off seasonal plants that popped up at different times during the year, forcing them to constantly move from location to location, with a fairly constant supply of food. There were never intense droughts or winters that destroyed their food, their food was incredibly hardy

So, Aboriginals never evolved to have to think forward, to plan or to use logic. That's why they have the lowest IQ rates in the world even though the local federal government gives them handouts constantly and consistently, they never had to develop minds that catered to long term agricultural planning.

>>2077976
This was because on arrival the aborigines literally burnt vast areas of the continet to the ground, causing mass extinctions and drastically changing the landscape.

Similar to how Rome turned North Africa into a complete shithole desert, or China's action in making the Gobi expand through deforestation.

>>2078387
Thanks historical revisionism.

Alot of forensic markers used to identify asians are also used for native americans, and they share some genetic disorders.

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>yfw there were abos in Australia when these things existed

>>2078329
>/pol/ hates the native americas though,

Actual Nazi here, I respect them immensely, the Incans/Aztecs/Olmecs were extremely advanced. I wish they had entered into iron working by the time the Conquistadors arrived, they may have stood a better chance at preservation.

Plus Mexico had it's own fascist movement, which is respectable itself.

/pol/ only truly hates niggers and jews.

>>2077536
So Chachapoyas were cucked by the Incas cause it was for great justice?

>>2078925
Would have been sick if they managed to domesticate them. Imagine the anglos facing a cavalry of giant lizards.

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>>2079121
>Actual Nazi here

>>2077716
>>2077737
Sub-saharan africans developdd metallurgy before and natives and their art was more realistic

>>2079756
Africa is connected to eurasia though. It's not an isolated landmass.

Was Great Zimbabwe created by volkish peoples?

>>2079797
What are you implying

>>2079948
I'm implying that saying "well the africans managed it, why didn't the native americans/abbos" isn't a valid point because the later groups were isolated from devolpments elsewhere.

>>2079973
Are you trying to say SSAs didn't develop metallurgy by themselves?

>>2079978
The americas did, but only with soft metals for decoratives, and copper and a very, very, very limited amount of bronze for actual utilitarian metals.

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>>2077152
Natives from the americas are of asian ancestry so there's that.

>>2077879
In most places cereal crops arose when people became heavily reliant on wild grasses and gradually started to improve and cultivate them over the course of generations. This only happened in a few places after the end of the Ice Age, when wild grasses became abundant in places like China, the Fertile Crescent, Mesoamerica and the Sahel. In most places people never became so dependent on wild grasses though, so domestication didn't occur until it was introduced from somewhere else. Australia, much like Europe, is a small continent and there was nowhere on it where people were so dependent on wild grasses that they began to cultivate them, but unlike in Europe it never had agriculture introduced from outside (I'm not sure why, maybe the tropical crops from Southeast Asia/New Guinea couldn't grow there or something).

Aside from cereal crops there's also more varied stuff like yams, potatoes or bananas which were domesticated in the West African rainforest, the Andes and New Guinea (that last one should really dispel any racial bullshit, at least concerning agriculture). These arose under more varied circumstances, and it would be wrong to say that agriculture can only emerge in one specific way. Varied environments are generally more likely places for agriculture to emerge; Mexico and the Andes are both covered with highly varied regional micro-climates due to their equally varied terrain, forcing people to adapt to multiple different environments and ecologies and thus encouraging the emergence of new ways of life, such as agriculture. But in Australia the environment wasn't varied enough, due to its small size and relatively homogeneous terrain, for the any of the right conditions to occur.

Here's more about New Guinean agriculture: http://epubs.scu.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1635&context=sass_pubs

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>>2077379
Fuck those dirty spanish barbarians. Cortes was in awe on how clean the city and it's citizens were compared to europe's at the time.

>>2080418
didn't help them much against the plague, now did it?

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>>2079121
>they may have stood a better chance at preservation
It would not have changed the outcome. 90% of the native american population got wiped out by the filthy diseased ridden spaniards.

>>2078371
The article you linked shows that Aboriginals knew how to exploit their environment most efficiently by altering it in their favour. That's basically what agriculture aims to do, the only difference being that Aboriginals were more interested in encouraging high species diversity rather than intensively exploiting one resource, leading to agriculture.

I'm not sure what the point of the rest of your post is, do you think nobody else practiced infanticide or cannibalism? The Chinese have been doing the former for centuries, and the Aztecs certainly did the latter. If you think this is something outrageous, you must have a pretty naive view of history.

>>2077706
>>2077731
>>2077929
>>2077976
>>2078371
>>2078393
Aboriginal Australians when give the ability to alter favorable and fertile regions did so like in Victoria.

>There was a story that was confirmed by science. They describe this gigantic wave coming very far inland and killing everybody except those who were up on the mountaintops, and they actually name all the different locations where people survived

There were lava rocks from an explosion the aboriginals stories about as well that provided the material that formed the basis for thousands of lava rock runs and ponds for the aquaculture of eels we see that explorers spoke eloquently in their structures, the social organization and their numbers.

It's not about race.

>>2077879
We actually don't know just how corn became corn, it a likely a fluke of cultivating sugary stems if teosinte natural hybrids that accidentally created quite large seed heads and kernels in all likelihood randomly

>>2078653
BBC has two series o. Lost kingdoms of SA or central A.

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>>2079756
>their art was more realistic
k

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I think forced labor killed more people than the disease. Many cities were depopulated and their inhabitants enslaved in the Spanish haciendas and mines. This is el Tajin site where I live.

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>>2081260

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>>2081260
Some of it is.

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>>2081286
>

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>>2081331
I like Mayan stuff more, but it's not really as realistic as stuff from Ife.

>>2077598
If you are a conquering christian army then yes it was because they would not want to build their settlement on pagan structures. A real shame.

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>>2081260

>>2081356
>If you are a conquering christian army then yes it was because they would not want to build their settlement on pagan structures. A real shame.

But they did, a pretty good amount of native religious centers had churches built over them.

Look at the great pyramid of Cholula, for instance

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>>2081260
I prefer this one personally.

Xochicalco and Maya figurines are great too.

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I'm posting Mayan art now, and nobody can stop me.

>>2077993
>the only two races are dark and light

Lmao

Natives > abos >nigs

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>>2082486
Oops I meant Xochipala not Xochicalco.

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>>2082554

>>2077432
>>2077993
Name an alternative reason, seriosuly. They were in this country for 40,000 years and remained a hunter gatherer society for all that time, and would have likely continued to be a hunter gatherer society if left alone for another 40,000 years.

I'll begin dumping some maya sites, just give me a minute

>>2082569
Alternative, more logical explanations have already been posted in the thread. You only need to scroll up a dozen or so posts to see them.

>>2082555
kek look asian

>>2079756
My point being Africans were on an equally abundant continent for twenty thousand years longer but barely were more advanced than the Central Americans, who themselves were more advanced than the bulk of Sub-Saharan Africa.
Not only that, but Central Americans lacked the trading contacts with Europe or the Middle East that the Sub-Saharan Africans had.

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>tfw the natives here built everything out of wood so no structures remain

I imagine it was a comfy society, eating salmon and berries and having enough sustenance to pursue art, kayaking along the fjords, getting together at the potlach and having chiefs give everyone gifts as a demonstration of power

then getting captured and enslaved by some other tribe up the coast

>>2082625
mostly pc nonsense that goes into the trash once you see how these people live even now

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>>2082746
Just admit you don't actually want an explanation.

>>2082754
>>2082757
This is El Mirador, right? I wish I could see it without the forest cover.

I've seen some negative reactions to the Aztecs on the internet, how were they bad?

>>2082626
Theyre from Mexicos early Preclassic. Contemporaries to the Olmec.

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>>2082776
Yep, about 90% of the city is still under the trees. What you posted is La Danta, the biggest pyramid in the world, pic related. You can barely notice how massive it is because of the trees

>>2079756
>metallurgy
I just read up on it and I didn't know they got to steel so early

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this is around 3cm x 1cm

>>2082776
it's basic bitch excuse making by people who have never even meet an aboriginal Australian

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>>2082804
these are all archeological sites spread across Guatemala. None of them are located in Mexico, Hoduras, etc.

That's all I have for now. I have much more in my desktop computer, but I'm currently on a trip

>>2082647
>he thinks of "advancement" linearly

>>2083677
The only linear thing here is my linear dick inside your mom

>>2083700
Boosh

>>2079218
I dunno I mean, lizards aren't any more musket proof than most other animals.
Still, just the ability to ride lizards into battle and chomp some fuckers up sounds sick.
>"Messeage from sergeant Collins, sir. He writes that his company have been beset upon by dragons."

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>>2077246
Bad argument. There are wild grains that make up an important part of certain Aboriginal group's diets.

Also maize took a fuck of a lot of selective breeding to produce from wild teosinte (pic related)

>>2082569
>what was Mali empire, Ethiopia, Kongo

>>2077716
I believe the prevailing theory is that the meso-american societies had cross-cultural exchanges, whilst the Australian Aboriginals lived in near total isolation. Thus, in Central America, new ideas, technologies, and beliefs were always entering the cultural zeitgeist, while the aboriginals remained stuck as primitive hunter gatherers.

>>2077716
>>2084082
Sorry, wrong person

>>2084082
Which raises the question
"with who exactly?" Two centers of agriculture developed independently in the americas, in smallish areas. Its not like the aztecs had trade agreements with the Incas.

The closest you get to that is trade from central America down to the coast of whats today Colombia, and that seems to have only started well after agriculture was invented.

Secondly, mesoamerican crops managed to find their way into the southwestern US across a desert, and then be diffused all the way up to the east coast woodland people, but no Papuan could paddle across the Torres strait and say "look ya cunts, sweet potatos, taro and archery, this shit's fucking cash"

>>2079797
They developed it seperately, you idiot.

>>2077152
It didn't happen in Australia because the ultimate goal is not civilization, is survival. Australian environment is poor in cropland. People living there for thousands of years learned this the hard way.
The environment in Sub-Saharan Africa provided good nutrition for hunter gatherers. There was not much pressure to change their life. In Egypt, things were different.

>>2084175

hurrr what is the mississippian culture

hurr the only farming societies in the americas were aztecs and inca hurrrrrrrrr

>>2084705
And the Anasazi.

>>2082808
Do you have any of the Postclassic Maya sites of Guatemala?

>>2082782
They were cool and all but they were also assholes

>>2084705
>>2085015
Mississippians and Anasazi mostly just adopted Mexican crops.

Its like saying
>Hurr durr what is europe
When someone points out that agriculture developed in the middle east and china.

Who else copied a good idea doesn't say much about those that had the idea.

>>2078378
>oung children occurred.
native american also lacked burden animals and not only have deserts that cultures lived and thrived in, but some incredible tall mountain ranges that they built empires and road systems and terrace farms across.


>>2080483

>destroying arable land and turning it to desert is a good thing
>eating your babies and killing children in the 21st century isnt even that weird, come on guys! youre obviously naive!
You are so delusional its funny, the aborigines are the least succesfull "culture" that has ever existed. The scum of Englands prison created a working society there separate from outside intervention in a generation in a foreign hostile land, and abos still have yet to adapt because they have more pressing concerns like huffing petrol and falling asleep in the road.

>>2084691
Most of Africa has been farmers and herders for thousands of years you idiot.

>>2077152

Australia was pretty easy to access from Indo-Malay civilizations.

It wasnt really isolated

Its just that no one cared to go to Australia because it was some useless desert land

Plenty of Dravidians migrated though apparently

>>2085920
>>destroying arable land and turning it to desert is a good thing
Why the fuck would people without agriculture think in terms of 'arable land'. And what that article says is that aboriginals altered the environment to increase the variety of species, not that they 'destroyed' land.

>>eating your babies and killing children in the 21st century isnt even that weird, come on guys! youre obviously naive!
You actually are incredibly naive. Infanticide is pretty much universal in all human cultures, it's only declined today because of abortion. I'm obviously not defending the practice, but it isn't unique to Australia.

>https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ebd8/f45e88eb7861be9060444c189a07fa2f2d1a.pdf
>There is every reason to believe that infanticide is as old as human society itself and that no culture has been immune to it. Infanticide was legal throughout the ancient civilizations of Mesopotamia, Greece, and Rome, and was justified by reasons ranging from population control to eugenics to illegitimacy. Although Constantine declared infanticide a crime in 318 A.D., all indications are that throughout much of the history of Western civilization, infanticide remained commonplace.

>The scum of Englands prison created a working society there separate from outside intervention
They WERE outside intervention you fucking idiot. They weren't dropped in the middle of the desert with no resources or knowledge of civilization, they were brought there from Britain, the most developed country on the planet, and transplanted into Australia the agriculture, technology, state and educational institutions, and general civilization of their homeland.

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Have some superior Incan art I saw in a museum in Barcelona. These guys did kawaii before the Japanese.

>>2077152
>>2078653

Lost Kingdoms of South America series is a nice documentary series.
Ep 1 (about the chachapoyas): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvGf0JIat0s
Ep 2 (about tiwanaku): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ0ONJpaslY
Ep 4 (about the chimu): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H6eJ80OEnU

There is also a documentary series done by the same presenter about the inca.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CA2OYgYznc
You can probably find part 2 somewhere on youtube.
There is also the lost kingdoms of central america series somewhere if you are interested in that.

>>2082502
thank you for this picture never seen it so neat and clear

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>>2085155
These are all from Mixco Viejo, a postclassic maya city. It's in very nice shape since it was restored a few years ago. It's quite difficult to get there because it's literally in the middle of nowhere surrounded by mountains and ravines.

>>2082804
>>2082796
>>2082786
>>2082774

There are plenty others, both postclassic genuine maya cities and indigenous descendants, which are not properly maya but still very similar. The former were pretty small and irrelevant, the latter where the ones that had to face with the spaniards.

Among the most important indigenous cities are Iximché (capital of the Kaqchikel Kingdom), Q'umarkaj (capital of the K'iche' Kingdom, a very nice place but all ruins are practically destroyed. Fucking spanish chimps decided to raid the city, lock everybody inside and burn it down, pic related. It also has a couple man made caves that are between 25 and 40m long which were used as shrines and escape routes for some members of the K'iche' nobility), Zaculeu... Also the modern town of Flores in Petén was built over the ruins of Nojpeten, a small city on an island from the same guys that built Chichen Itza, it's a beautiful place.

>>2086052
>I'm obviously not defending the practice, but it isn't unique to Australia.

In many parts of Europe in the past kids never got names until 1-3 years have passed due to massive child mortality.