Why are Young Earth creationists views marginalized, /his/? Why

>>2057083

occam's razor

>>2057083

Good question. Personally, I have nothing but contempt for "Christians" who say things like "Genesis is just a metaphor!". What they're saying is, "I know my religion is absurd, but I'm still going to complain when you mock me for my absurdities!". At least Fundies reject reason consistently.

>>2057083

>that image

Christianity really is garbage tier

>>2057083
I bet all the scientist he cited weren't creationist.

>>2057083
That cartoon is triggering.

>>2057083

As a YEC, we represent everything the godless people hate.

A consistent and vibrant Christian worldview based on the Word of God, and nothing else.

The lie that is "evolution" has already broken down, and is useless. Stagnating. Lifeless. And faith based.

>>2057170
>And faith based

This is such a stupid thing for a godlover to say. Isn't faith the highest virtue for you "people"?

>>2057170
>has already broken down, and is useless. Stagnating. Lifeless. And faith based.
explain. Focus on the first part

>>2057175

No, it's a human ability, light sight or hearing.

Faith is your ability to believe things you have not seen.

There are many things you believe, but did not see for yourself.

Faith is not a "religious" word at heart.

>>2057192
Stephen Gould said better than I could. He rejected the incremental approach of Darwin because there's no evidence for it.

He hypothesized that instead of incremental, evolution is "punctuated", meaning that very large changes take place very quickly at long intervals.

He also does not have the evidence to back up this view of "evolution", a word that means virtually nothing on its own.

>>2057194

Obviously. But for a retard, aka a religious "person", faith is the highest virtue. So to dismiss evolution because it's faith based (it isn't, but I wouldn't expect a retarded person to know that) is as stupid as when retards say "atheism is just a religion!" (so you agree that religions are false?).

>>2057199
>Stephen Gould

Top kek. Try citing someone who WASN'T a proven liar and fraud.

>>2057209

Faith, hope and charity (love).

Love is the highest virtue, not faith.

Faith is useless in heaven, where you can see God, see the angels, see everything you know now to be true.

Hope is useless when you have obtained all that you hoped for.

Only love remains, and abides, and so love is the highest of all.

>>2057213

Please do go on how this atheist scientist is a "proven liar and fraud".

>>2057199
You are aware that that is still evolution?

>>2057226

I am aware that it is another hypothesis created to explain the lack of evidence for Darwinian evolution, yes.

And as I said, it is also false.

"God did it" is a perfectly good answer when God did it. And God telling Moses how he did it, all in six days, and how death did not enter into the creation until after that, belies any hypothesis that involves "millions or billions" of years, random chance, abiogenesis, spontaneous generation, etc.

>>2057219

http://lesswrong.com/lw/kv/beware_of_stephen_j_gould/

>>2057243
>>2057219
>If Gould had simply stolen Williams's ideas and presented them as his own, then he would have been guilty of plagiarism. And yet at least the general public would have been accurately informed; in that sense, less damage would have been done to the public understanding of science.
>But Gould's actual conduct was much stranger. He wrote as if the entire Williams revolution had never occurred! Gould attacked, as if they were still current views, romantic notions that no serious biologist had put forth since the 1960s.
>Then Gould presented his own counterarguments to these no-longer-advocated views, and they were bizarre. Evolution is a random walk in complexity, with a minimum at zero complexity and no upper bound? But there is an upper bound! Sheer chance explains why dogs are more complex than dinosaurs? But they probably aren't!
>Why did Gould behave thus? Two observations: One, to bring order to a scientific field, it must first be in chaos. Two, plagiarism is a crime that everyone understands.
>Gould undid the last thirty years of progress in his depiction of the field he was criticizing, pretending that evolutionary theory was in chaos, so he could depict himself as heroically bringing order to it. If Gould had also redid the accepted solutions as his own, he would have been caught, tried, and cast out of the public eye. Newspaper editors may not be interested in mathematical arguments about evolutionary biology, but they understand stories about plagiarism and theft. Once Gould's copying had been laid out next to the original, and eminent scientists attested to the identity, it would have been over.

The real problem is that these apostates split from Catholicism, and now they're allowed to believe all sorts of crazy shiznit.

>>2057238
One would think you'd be good at this creationist trolling by now, but you keep at it slugger.

>>2057243

>There's just one problem: It's extremely unlikely that any modern evolutionary theorist, however much a romantic, would believe that evolution was accumulating complexity.

Do you read your own sources?

What is more complicated? The first protozoan, or you?

No, the truth of the matter is that the Darwinian evolutionists have no answer for Gould, because he's one of them. He just didn't drink the "gradual evolution" kool-aid. He just didn't buy the "all fossils are transitional fossils" hoax.

>>2057253

I'll just keep doing what my spiritual father told me to do, and you keep doing what your spiritual father tells you to do.

>>2057254
>HURR

Gould is a nothing, he destroyed his own reputation by lying and committing academic fraud. The fact you cite him as though he is a respected figure shows just how utterly dishonest you are, but this doesn't surprise me in the least because every single christian I've ever met has been a shameless liar.

>>2057117
Genesis has been viewed as metaphorical by a large portion of Biblical scholars ever since Augustine in the late fourth century
the vehement biblical literalism is largely a product of the protestants

>>2057268

So? If you accept that ANY part of the Bible is fiction, then you have NO basis to claim any part of it as true. Gensis is "just a metaphor"? Then maybe "son of god" is "just a metaphor" too!

>>2057253
John Maynard Smith:

>"Gould occupies a rather curious position, particularly on his side of the Atlantic. Because of the excellence of his essays, he has come to be seen by non-biologists as the preeminent evolutionary theorist. In contrast, the evolutionary biologists with whom I have discussed his work tend to see him as a man whose ideas are so confused as to be hardly worth bothering with, but as one who should not be publicly criticized

>because he is at least on our side against the creationists.

Still think this is a search for the truth?

>>2057254
Then why are there still protozoans?

>>2057268

Yes, by God's children, not the devil's.

>>2057275
Because kind begets kind, always.

It has always been this way.

Only in the delusions of godless men do protozoans turn into human beings. Eventually.

>>2057269
Jesus being the son of God was only agreed upon in like the 4th century as well I'm pretty sure. Like...you only have to read between the lines there.

>>2057269
fiction is not the same as metaphor my friend

>>2057286

Yes, it is. A metaphor is a fiction. If it weren't, it would be a factual description.

>>2057284

It was true before the world was formed, and never up for mankind's approval, consent or vote.

>>2057268
Augustine himself said that Genesis was a history book, and interpreted as much of it literally as possible. Him and the rest of Christendom believed in pretty much everything modern YECs do, and some more, like geocentrism and the existence of the firmament.

>>2057286
And metaphor is not the same as fiction.

>>2057294
Facts are kryptonite to papists.

>>2057278
Protozoans were kinda leftovers in an outdated taxonomical model. They specifically were not animals (or plants or fungi) an they were not the group these kingdoms came from. No evolutionist ever believed men came from protozoans

>>2057288
you're twisting words here despite you being well aware of the meaning

>>2057294
Augustine was a rational man and a scientific one. He rejected the 6 day version and hypothesized it happened all instantly or in some abstract time frame.

But more relevantly he said that because of Genesis' metaphorical nature it should not be taken in favor of reason or scientific inquiry
>It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis
>t. St. Augustine

>>2057291
Think about what you just posted and consider how retarded it is.

>be atheist
>think that consciousness came from rocks

>>2057308
All evolutionists have to believe that mankind developed from the first living being on planet earth.

>>2057309
>you're twisting words here despite you being well aware of the meaning

No, you're trying to claim special pleading for your metaphors being somehow "true" when the definition of a metaphor is that it is a FICTION.

>>2057309
>He rejected the 6 day version and hypothesized it happened all instantly or in some abstract time frame.

Baseless allegations.

Bible says 6 24 hour days, and rested the seventh.

Bible always right.

Mankind always wrong.

>>2057318

No, they don't. Life arose more than once, the Archeans are not directly related to the prokaryotes.

>>2057310
First of all, the Council of Nicea did not determine that Jesus was the living Son of God. They got rid of some gnostics who said he wasn't.

Second of all, it wasn't up to them.

Third of all, it isn't up to you either.

>>2057322
>day and night existed before the sun
>moon described as a "light"

>>2057318
I don't even think most evolutionist believe there is a singular origin of life

>>2057323
Oh, I'm sorry. You're hopelessly autistic. I'm afraid only God can fix that.

Do you understand in broad strokes that something (the universe) had to come from nothing, if there is no God to create it?

Do you understand in broad strokes that living things have to come from non-living things, if there is no God to create them?

Do you understand that conscious beings had to arise from non-conscious beings, if there is no God to create them?

No?

You just like putting labels on things?

>>2057320
metaphor here means it's an allegory for the truth
it's not literally true but it's a representation of the truth

I won't respond to more of this pedantic nonsense

>>2057322
your interpretation is a different one from the one universal church and most protestants m8
Augustine again quite directly contradicts you here for one influential example

>>2057326
First thing God said is "Light, be". And light was.

The sun doesn't put out light for God, nor does it teach God how to tell time.

God put light into the sun, and God set the orbit of the earth to correspond with his timing.

Your "god" is far too small to even contemplate.

Is "moonlight" a word in your language?

Does the moon shine in the night sky?

>>2057322
But it's mankind who wrote the Bible.

>>2057329
It doesn't matter what they believe. They were not there; they did not see it; and the fanciful imaginations they produce have no basis in reality.

>>2057334
I don't care if Augustine contradicts me at all points. I don't worship him.

I worship God, who went out of his way to tell Adam, and Abraham, and Moses, and anyone else who would listen how he created the universe.

I turn to him for wisdom and understanding, not to dead papists.

>>2057333
>Do you understand in broad strokes that living things have to come from non-living things, if there is no God to create them?
viruses
>Do you understand in broad strokes that living things have to come from non-living things,
every being is conscious to a degree

>>2057339
And it was the Holy Spirit of God who dwelt in those 40 men, over that 1500 year period to write those 66 books who inspired them and brought all things to their remembrance, and to their knowledge.

The Holy Bible is holy because God inspired it, not because men wrote it. Only God makes things holy.

>>2057347

So no, you have no clear understanding of anything.

Then why are you posing as someone who knows something?

>>2057342
But the people who wrote genesis were not at the garden of eden

>>2057083
Because they're incredibly ignorant and misinformed, as well as being an embarrassment to christendom as a whole.

>>2057356

Adam left no writings?

Are you sure?

God didn't remember anything from that creation week, and didn't tell anyone about it?

Are you sure?

>>2057333
In what believing that the universe came from nothing is different than believing it was created by God who also came from nothing?

>>2057357
I have bad news for you.

If you are ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ before men, Jesus is ashamed of you before the Father.

>>2057363
God did not come from nothing.

There was never any "nothing".

God is an eternal spirit being who has always existed.

>>2057309
>Genesis' metaphorical nature

>The narrative in [Genesis] is not written in a literary style proper to allegory, as in the Song of Songs, but from beginning to end in a style proper to history, as in the Books of Kings and the other works of that type
>T. St. Augustine

>He rejected the 6 day version and hypothesized it happened all instantly or in some abstract time frame
Whoopity doo. Why don't you post him defending the flood, arc, 5000 year old Earth and other things that the modern Church wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

Not to mention that his interpretation of the days as a single day itself was based on an overly literal reading of a phrase that basically meant "back in the day"

>>2057360
>Adam left no writings?
yes?

>>2057357
If it makes you feel any better I stopped associating these retards with christians a long time ago

>>2057369

There's two accounts of the creation week in Genesis. The first is God's, and starts "in the beginning".

The second is Adam's, and starts on Day Six, when Adam was created.

>>2057374
>He says to a Catholic.

>>2057364
I'm not ashamed of the word at all, I'm ashamed of being associated with you idiots, you make Christians and americans look bad. You're in the same league as Cathars 2bh.

>>2057367
i'm not claiming he was a 19th or 20th century scientist because he wasn't

point was YEC are modernist heretics that equate being contrary to reason to being pious while the church has historically been pro-science and pro-reason from its earliest days as most strongly and elegantly stated by Augustine

>>2057375
So like, why were there no Jews before Abraham?

>>2057382
So by my believing the bible, as written, I'm an idiot.

I make Christians look bad by believing the Word of God.

I make Americans look bad for some reason.

Are you sure about all of those absurdities?

>>2057397

Because the Jews come from the 12 tribes of Israel, aka Jacob, the grandson of Abraham.

I love it when people say that life is just "magically" perfect and probably couldn't tell you what the fuck ATP is.

>>2057404

jesus wasnt the son of god you know.

>>2057503
t. Abraham Goldstein

>>2057516
how do you know my name?

>>2057503
If you know that the Son is the Father, then you would be correct.

If you are saying John 3:16 is a lie, you can take your place with all antichrist liars in a lake of fire.

Your choice.

>>2057083
Francis Bacon was a bad scientist

>>2057521

mate, you the one going to hell unless you renounce that jesus is the son of god and declare your faith in the koran

>>2057083

because people are idiots thats why.

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>>2057268
>product of the protestants
Yes, look at all these protestants

>>2057538

you are right but he is also correct that most people that believe the world is 6000ya today is because of protestant biblical literalist movements in america in more modern times. Im not sure what the general population believed about the issue at the time those first groups arose but im sure it is their legacy from which people still have those believes as opposed to these ancient ones.

>>2057083
Because they're demonstrably wrong. People who think the ocean is made of pudding shouldn't have their retarded ideas validated and neither should YECs.

>>2057555
>Catholics/Orthodox invent YEC
>in the 16th century Protestants split from Catholics
>Catholics keep being YECs until the 1800s when the dawn of modern geology and evolution biology makes them cuck out and do a 180 and accept evolution
>I-IT WAS INVENTED BY PROTESTANTS I SWARE ON ME MUM

Fuck Catholics desu.

>>2057581

nah, fuck jesus, he started this shit, hes kekking right now.

"hehe, look at these cunts, think theyre going to heaven"

>>2057083

>" Between 1982 and 2014, successive surveys have found that between 40% and 47% of adults in the United States inclined to the view that "God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years" when Gallup asked for their views on the origin and development of human beings"

USA some dense motherfuckers.

>>2057199
>>2057213
>>2057219
>>2057238

Punctuated equilibrium still works by incremental, inherited changes to the genome. All it says is that sometimes one successful mutation leads to others in short succession. But it's not an argument about the rate of mutation afaik, it's about the rate of success.

>>2057254
>There's just one problem: It's extremely unlikely that any modern evolutionary theorist, however much a romantic, would believe that evolution was accumulating complexity.

Yudkowski is overstating the case himself. Last I heard he's so ignorant of complexity theory that he doesn't believe in emergence, so it's only natural he isn't aware of the arguments coming from that field. If this is a settled matter, it's going to come unsettled when some more old farts die.

>>2057117
You can still follow the ideology of a particular religion while acknowledging that it's creation myth is merely that, a myth.

>>2057632

ffs, why argue with them , theyre idiots, just laugh in their faces.

>>2057581
except that not what happened
almost everyone dropped YEC including pretty much all protestants until it was actively revived in the US by US protestants

>>2057655

hence densest nation in the west >>2057628

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>>2057654

There may be susceptible lurkers around

>>2057581
Catholics invented Christianity.

>>2057705
Jesus Christ invented Christianity. Catholics are just a bunch of retards who falsely claim to be the successors of Peter.

>>2057715
American protestants only worship mammon.

>>2057718
Who cares about Americans anyway.

>>2057737

i know. they don't even know how to do christianity properly.

>>2057645

Certainly. Fortunately, most Christians don't live according to their religion, if they did, society would have collapsed long ago.

>>2057083
>drawing the picture where the kids objects to not being taught creationism
>not his parents being mad while the kid doesn't give a shit

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>>2057743
Correct.

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>>2057748
fucking upvoted

>>2057083
>Why is it considered by some to be acceptable for people to believe in the miracles recorded in the gospels for instance, yet following Genesis and believing the earth is 6000 years old just as Christians have done for millennia is somehow more controversial?

Because religion is dictated by society's values, not the other way around.

>>2057754
>>2057748

amen, both get ((you))s


>>2057752
topkek.

>>2057083
>yet following Genesis and believing the earth is 6000 years old just as Christians have done for millennia is somehow more controversial?

cause even evangelical scholars will admit that the morphology of the text doesn't indicate young earth creation,

>>2057337
>Then Coyote put light into the sun
t. neoshamanist

>>2057752

holyshit this is funny that evangelical (i assume american)

i literally know someone who is the KJV written by jesus and obligation with israel and nuclear war for apocalypse

>human consciousness came from rocks n shiet

Evolution is embarrassing.

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>>2057790
I'm pretty sure that's Scientology.

>>2057790
why is it? elaborate keklord

>>2057790

Embarrassing 2bh hombre

>>2057838
>we wuz rocks n shiet you dumb christian don't ya know about darwin? keep worshiping your spaghetti god

>>2057581
>cuck out and do a 180

Wow, I can't believe an institution would change its worldview to accommodate newly discovered truths. I bet you also support the flat earth and/or the heliocentric model, right?

YEC's are too stupid to breathe. Its one thing to hold a belief in the supernatural, its another to think the moon is made of cheese or that the earth is only a couple thousand years old. Maybe if I started a religion based on denying the existence of trees I could convince entire groups of people that trees don't exist, even when they're looking right at one.

>>2057854

lol christians are so dumb.

>>2057904
>abandon your biblical doctrine because science told you to

Sorry to play the fedora now, but YEC is bad because it's unscientific, but the guys splitting seas and talking serpents are okay?

>>2057932
Nah I'm a fedora too don't worry. I don't believe any of it. But I can at least respect the paranormal/occult/spiritualist types and the casual religious. Flat Earthers and YEC's actively reject the reality right in front of them.

>>2057932
>what's the difference between mythology and verifiable facts

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>>2057805
>>2057838
>>2057852
>>2057912
>be rocks
>mix with water
>get human consciousness
Just kill yourselves atheists.

>>2057932
>>2057939

*tips* good day to you fellow tippers. what hats do you own?

>>2057940
Well it's a verifiable fact that snakes can't talk.

>>2057946

you do the exact same; wt du study

>>2057952
it's not verifiable that a snake in a divine metaphorical garden couldn't talk

>>2057956
>be Christian
>believe God created everything
Pretty straightforward. None of this muh rocks bullshit you retards peddle.

>>2057960
>the snake is metaphorical
>but creation is not
They're literally on the same fucking page in the Bible.

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>>2057946
>be eternal being
>bored
>decide to create the world
>creations act like dicks and betray me
>kill them all because I love them
>send them to eternal torture if they don't have blind faith
>pick a small group of favorites and start killing others because lol
>send myself down for an act of self sacrifice that will let others escape eternal torment
>eventually the age of reason comes around and facts come to light
>people discover undeniable evidence about the age of the earth, the universe, the nature of life, etc
>even find old documents revealing that elements of my mythology were taken from other mesopetamian myths from the same time period
>laugh because I planted them all to fool them
>send them all to hell for accepting verifiable facts as truth instead of blind belief

lol those atheists right? What silly willies. I have faith though, I can hold a water bottle in my hand and convince myself its a solid gold spear because I have faith.

>>2057974
i'm not the retarded yec m9

>>2057975
>be eternal being
>bored
Lol, didn't read the rest. Just like you haven't read the bible. Another embarrassing darwincuck. Funny how you didn't even try to defend your muh rocks theory.

>>2057989
Because the education system failed you. I'm not going to spend hours answering a troll's questions. This is the internet, the sum of human knowledge can be found through quick searching. You know as well as I do that rocks have nothing to do with it.

I gave you an answer with the same level of thought as your original post.

>>2057964

show me your evidence stupid bitch.

>>2058000
I promise I am more educated than you. Way to avoid defending your rock theory again.

>>2058005
You, me.

>>2057989

in all probability atheists know more about the bible than you do.

youll be the one answering when allah sends you to hell for denouncing his prophet.

>>2058012
Sounds like you don't know what probability is, and even if you did you would certainly not be among the atheists that did, seeing as how you have never read the bible.
>being a Muslim
Lol, Jesus offers you salvation and not only do you turn away from him like atheists do, you spit in his face.

>>2058008

you got done. what is your education then boy?

>>2058009
english mother fucker, do you speak it?

>>2057170
interesting that you use "faith based" to insult evolution

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>>2058012
>some americlap pretends to be a muslim on 4chan

>>2058025

>Sounds like you don't know what probability is

>tfw that is the weirdest ass irrelevant response ever.

you spit in god's face by denouncing his prophet. the truth is easy to see, all you have to do is open the book and see my friend.

ive read the bible many times and i can see both how it is unfactual and been tainted throughout the ages. there is only one true book left.

>>2058029
Masters in mathematics.

>>2058030
Embarrassing reply.

Hey I have a question if we went in a time machine back to the garden of eden would it be a sin if I banged Eve?

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>>2058045
Christ warned of your false prophet.

>>2058046

what else am i supposed to say to "you, me".

ha im a postdoc.

>>2058051

And the koran warns of the likes of you.

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>>2058052
Can you read? Can you read this?

>>2058056
How can your fake book warn you about Christians when they already existed before it was written?

>>2058046
finishing my BS in math this spring
can't say it gives me much credentials in biology

>>2058064

why does it matter who came first? Read the book and you'll see what it says :)

>>2058067
What business does an undergraduate have defending muh rocks theory on 4chan when exams are around the corner? Shoo.

>>2058071
Not interested in cults.

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>>2057083
>Why are Young Earth creationists views marginalized, /his/?

I believe that dogs have psychic powers, that I can fly, and that a large purple elephant makes its way around the universe placing life on planets. Why are my views marginalized and mocked? I swear to Trunkie when the elephant God returns all of you fedora tippers will be send to the muddy watering hole for all eternity.

>>2058083

and Christianity isn't a cult?

seriously the koran is the word of god, has everything you need to know. It shows you your salvation and the love of god on you. don't be so foolish. Do you not know how the bible has been tainted and corrupted? Do you not see how in the koran it talks of jesus being born and saying "i am not the son of god"? he was a great prophet but not the son of god. You must change your ways if you want true salvation and closeness with god my friend.

This idea that you can't be a Christian and believe in evolution is pure American nutjobbery. It's quite acceptable and most civilised to keep your faith and read the OT allegorically. YET is the same shit tier theology as the rapture and all that bullshit. The interweb is polarising people into stances previously only held by zealots and derided in polite company.

>>2058096
How is Christianity a cult? It revolves around the worship of God, as opposed to the worship of a man.

>>2058097
This this this this fucking this. Even the Pope, the Church, and the Patriarchs accept evolution. Islam accepts evolution. So do the Hindus and the Buddhists. Its American hardheadedness from the scripture-only protestant heresy.

>>2058099
Christianity is as much of a cult as islam and by definition, began as a cult.

>>2058097

doesn't evolution fuck mans relationship with god though?

>>2058083
point stands math has nothing to do with biology m8 and should be left to actual biologists

>>2058096
the bible is neither tainted or corrupt
this is a lie made up by mohammad and has been thoroughly debunked by archaeology
on a related note the quran is not perfect or exactly the same either as proven by archaeology

the most damning evidence against the islamic heathenry is the fact that mohammad has a mistaken idea about what christianity is and actually misinterprets it in the quran so most muslims even today think it's a polytheistic faith because mohammad couldn't be bothered to do his homework

>>2058119
creationism is much more accepted in islam than it is in christianity

>>2058133

where is the bible proven by archaeology? look at all of the different gospels and how the church did pick and mix to taint its view. the early church was tainted by the devil in the presence of rome and so is its book. this is why you have your triple gods and your saint demons.

i admire your courage to believe but you should turn to the koran and not what man and the devil have changed in the bible.

>>2058133
People tell me 5:116 is actually talking about intercession so much it makes my head spin. There's no fucking way it's talking about intercession.
Allah straight up asks Jesus if he said that he and his mother were partners with God

>>2058127
What makes you think it does?

>>2058119
Underrated post.

>>2058154

Because it takes away the anthropocentricity of the world. Man is just a continuation of animals and not the centre of nature either and i don't see how there can be a plan in a world of evolution.

>>2058150
>where is the bible proven by archaeology?
the bible isn't "proven" by archaelogy
the quranic claim that the bible has been altered or as "picked and mixed", as you phrase it, has no basis in reality
if it were we'd expect to find bibles that are substantially different from the modern versions
problem is all the bibles we find are virtually identical with the modern versions with only a few sentences mixed up here and there, which by the way also applies to the quran despite what many muslims think

>>2058153
yes he asks jesus about mary as if to prove any christian actually believes in the trinity of jesus, mary and god
no christian denomination considers mary divine, that's purely an islamic invention because mohammad, again, couldn't be bothered to do his homework

>>2058167
Do you think you have the faculties to glean His plan? Pride is a sin.

>>2058168

because it was changed before it was compiled into modern bibles... corrupted by the catholic church and its sun worship.

>>2058170
HOLY FUCKING KEK

This is absolutely perfect m8

>>2058169

why do you think i have pride? surely you are the one sinning more in being presumptuous.

its just the nature of evolution you study in science doesn't really chime well with the plan of god in my opinion.

What are the sciences that YEC are in conflict with?
Biology
Geology
Astronomy
Physics
Chemistry
Some more?
And all because you take a collection of bronze age myths literal? Well done!

>>2058170
all the oldest scriptures, from long before the bible was completely standardized match the modern versions virtually word for word

it's really convenient for mohammad to claim the bible has been substantially altered but the unfortunate fact is that that's simply nonsense that has never had even so much an inkling of evidence for it

>>2058169

any plan*

"There is no teleology in nature" is a phrase you'll occasionally hear some biologists say.

>>2058182
Paleontology and Archeology also.

>>2058168
I was agreeing with you, Muhammad didn't even understand how the Trinity works.

People either say he's speaking about intercession (in the most pants-shittingly retarded way possible) or that he was addressing Collyridians even though we have no evidence they even existed anymore because the church pounded them into the dirt immediately

>>2058179
I think you are proud because you think you are clever enough and able enough to understand the Big Yin's works.

I wonder how many YEC there actually are

I mean its obvious everyone in this thread is trolling but how big is the vocal minority in total

>>2058197
Actually there is one YEC guy who starts a thread once a week, and I think he is serious
>no idea tough what a fundi christian is doing on 4chan safe for jacking off on /d/

>>2058197
It is pretty substantial in the United States and the Arab world

>>2058133
many muslims are actually old earth creationists

>>2058194

where did i say that? where have i made a statement about god, i just talk about biology. am i not allowed to have a though or a hypothesis?

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

tired of some self-righteous christians.

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Which is cat, and which is dog?

>>2058197
a bunch in america and a handful of scattered nutjobs elsewhere

>>2058202
I really doubt its that common in the USA, given people have access to decent education (compared to actual religious shitholes like say Afghanistan)

Are Jews YECs today?

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>this has to be taken literally against all evidence of pretty much any major science discipline

And thats why YEC's only exist in religious safe spaces in the US and with underdeveloped Muslims.

>>2058213
>>2057628

>>2058213
Nope, it is actually many tens of millions

>>2058210
>scattered nutjobs elsewhere

and many of these were actually educated by American missionaries.

>>2058205
You said, "the nature of evolution you study in science doesn't really chime well with the plan of god in my opinion"

For you to come to this opinion, you must have some idea of the 'plan' that you think evolution is in dissonance with. That is a very proud claim.

>>2058221
I'd really like to see those studies in detail because it just seems wrong.
Everyone gets at least basic history and biology lessons during which evolution would naturally be brought up or at the very least the various stone-age civilizations.

>>2058218

so give me the worst contradiction out of all these.

might save this for when i go fedora caroling next week. *tips*

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>>2058232
and they receive a different education from their parents, church and sunday school

>>2058232
Or at least some geology, or History, you know there is much more history than just 6k years. Or the total mind bend they gotta do to explain Dinosaurs.

>Why is it considered by some to be acceptable for people to believe in the miracles recorded in the gospels
>by some
?!/1/1/1? it's also considered by some that pooing in a road instead of a toilet is acceptable it's all subject.ve

>>2057117
You're a fucking idiot

>>2058238
That looks like an asshole child, seriously!

>>2058244
christians do face persection in some places

>>2058238
are there really that many sunday schools that actively teach YEC?

It just seems wrong that literally multiple million people in a first world country with acceptable education standards believe in something that flat out contradicts nearly every field of science.

>>2058229

if you think asking questions is wrong then thats up to you dude. are you devoid of (your definition) of pride? are you sinless?

My perception's of evolutions contradiction with christianity come from how God's relationship with man is depicted in the bible and how anthropocentric it is and evolution is not like that and isn't planned at all as opposed to creation or intelligent design. nor does it prioritise humans or differentiate them in any significant way from animals. I think it makes it strange to say man is in the image of god because then i'd say so are many animals.

If i can't formulate an opinion based on what i've seen in the bible, then how can you formulate opinions or beliefs about your very own religion. it isn't pride my friend.
Why is it pride if i interpret something through the bible but not for every other christian who can read it and proclaim god's message.

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>>2058240
>to explain Dinosaurs.

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>>2058253
Belief is a powerful thing.

>>2058252

in alll probability christianity has probably been the greatest persecutor of all time, despite all the christians in america getting criticisms and arguments from others and saying "ha the bible told me i would be persecuted"

>>2058253
https://answersingenesis.org/ministry-news/ark-encounter/media-misleads-about-ark-again/

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>>2058260

>>2058257
regarding anthropocentrism in religion

how exactly do people like YEC and similar react to research and discoveries regarding animal intelligence, more specifically among the most intelligent species (think apes, dolphins, corvids)

>>2058260
The hard part comes when they go to an actual museum. Or read up on dinosaurs on the internet. Actually you need to keep out so much science that you can only do this in a rural safe space.
Intersting to know would be how and what conservative christian Universities can teach, because many fields of science contradict YEC theory.

>>2058253
https://answersingenesis.org/creation-scientists/

>>2058280
>actual museum

they go to >>2058273

>>2058277
kek

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>>2058273
https://thenaturalhistorian.com/2015/12/30/dodging-darwin-how-ken-hams-ark-encounter-is-slowly-embracing-evolution/
https://thenaturalhistorian.com/2016/09/01/ark-encounter-common-ancestors-the-increasing-inclusiveness-of-biblical-kinds/

>>2058257
I'm saying anyone who claims to understand 'God's Plan' is evidently a nutjob. I don't think asking questions is a bad thing and I certainly don't consider myself without sin.

What I am saying is that even a cursory reading of the Bible, especially it's more trippy parts like Genesis, will lead most sane people to look a bit below the surface of the text.

Nothing about evolution undermines mankind's relationship with the Big Chap. Why should it? That relationship is necessarily personal and transcendental.

>>2058301
actually some groups of YECs have regarded the YEC at Ken Ham's museum as blasphemy and unbiblical.

>>2058279

i really don't know, i don't think it would bother them.

>>2058314
I can't see how it wouldn't.
Animals enroaching on what is by many considered the prime division between humankind and animalkind, namely intelligence, should evoke similar response to the idea that humans are descendant from animals

>>2058280
>many fields of science contradict YEC theory.

>just a theory!, Satan's snare, evolutionism is a false religion etc.
They value the 'Word of God' over the word of man, there is no reasoning with them.

>>2058306

what about the difference between animals and humans; humans in gods image, having souls etc.

>>2058324

i think so. i think humans aren't different enough from animals to have a different soul. they really aren't their brains are extremely similar, they behave very similarly too; similar emotions etc. theres not actually really anything to add to humans that isn't just a continuation of animals. no special human soul.

>>2058280

>>2057170

>>2058336
Well, for example (I'm not saying this is correct), couldn't man being in God's image be the advanced thinking and creativity that we display and that separates us from the beasts, rather than a physical likeness?

>>2058350
problem is the more we study animal behavior, the more we realize humanity's most unique characteristics are continuations of animal behavior.

There are animals with language, animals that use tools, animals wage wars and even animals that have primitive funeral rites.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Couldn't having us made 'of the earth' be a description of evolution?

>>2058119
More evidence that Catholics are heretics.

>>2058306
If you combine the ideas of evolution by natural selection with application of the anthropic principle, you're left with a pretty strong implication that our existence here is not in any way "intended", but just the result of unconscious processes and algorithms taking place within a vast universe that follows certain laws.

I suppose you can say that God chose to plan things this way by creating a universe with the appropriate laws and knowing that advanced life would eventually arise, but that doesn't seem very intuitively compelling. It certainly would be a lot easier to believe in a creationist God if we didn't know that life in fact arose by completely blind, unguided processes.

>>2058343

therefore humans are not a special creation of god more than animals.

>>2058360
I agree. I'm not sure there's anywhere in the Bible that says the rest of 'creation' is not also of God, though.

>>2058376
The Logos. The Word. The Lawgiver!

All that jazz.

>>2058376


It really isn't and >>2058376
i feel like it doesn't give any reason for why god made humans or why they are his children or anything like that. its strange. I even kind of think that any of the "adam and steve" justifications against homosexuality lose their strength in the light of evolution. its no longer design or plan or love. sexual relationships vary dependent on the context for animals and humans are no different.

>>2058379
I wonder, while currently its mostly a theological/philosophical problem
if the advanced intelligence of certain animals will ever become a legal problem

after all, could you really give a creature which is proven to have self-awareness and understand of the concept of life and death the same legal rights ad creatures which do not?

>>2058405

no you can't practically and i think the idea of society is consentual and the rights in it are so animals rights will always be limited. in my opinion i think its actually just as arbitrary to differentiate rights on animal intelligence. yes i think obviously a fucking insect or jellyfish is not the same as a chimp and thats kind of self-evidently different people talk about apes and dolphins... i think even a rat or other small birds are still not different enough. they still feel pain, etc. i think intelligence is still arbitrary as weird as it sounds. theres no non-arbitrary point.

>>2058416
kind of self-evident but. *

If we could observe the big bang, the initial impulse, and plot all the particles careering off in time and space like snooker balls,
>and we were clever enough
couldn't we predict every collision and interaction to the end of the universe?
>b-b-but much Heisenberg's Uncertainty
Perhaps God, in his
>infinite
wisdom is the motherfuckerist of all pool players.

also, what about fucking aliens?

do intelligent aliens count theoretically? do go to hell for not knowing? or do they know?

>>2058426

what are you talking about?

you literally just butt in and start talking some shit that no one is talking about.

>>2057083
>yet following Genesis and believing the earth is 6000 years old just as Christians have done for millennia is somehow more controversial?
Aren't dating efforts based on the Bible largely an 18th and 19th century imposition?

>>2057388
>pro-science and pro reason from its earliest days

Not him but that's complete bullshit. I guess it depends on how one defines "science" and reason". The Catholic Church did become more rational and scientific over time, but I doubt Christians or Christianity were ever as "reasonable" as you say, especially from "its earliest days". I mean the Orthodox still use "muh mystery", and that had to develop from somewhere.

>>2058465
you're confusing theology with the natural world
the church has been pro reason when explaining the natural world since Augustine and as exemplified by Aquinas

that is not to be mixed up with theological mysteries

>>2057117
>I know my religion is absurd
No SHIT faggot. It's like you don't even know about the double movement. Fucking plebs I swear to Christ.

>>2058443
I think they were giving an idea of how an infinite skydaddy could work with evolution dude. I think you were the one getting sidetracked about how fucking clever crows are. Dullard.

>>2058483

Fuck off dude, his point was incomprehensible, unreadable. And i was replying to someone obviously. You must be the guy that made the post because you clearly can't follow and conversation and feel you have to start memeing absolute wank.

>>2057266
More like how desperate Christians are to find any crumb to justify their beliefs.

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>>2058541

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>>2058555

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>>2058563

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>>2058570

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>>2058576

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>>2058577

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>>2058585

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>>2058587

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>>2058600

>>2058555
>>2058563
>>2058570
>>2058576
>>2058577
>>2058585
>>2058587
>>2058600
>>2058601

Something on your mind buddy?

>>2057083
>Why are Young Earth creationists views marginalized, /his/?

Because religion isn't science.

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>>2058605
there's two of us tho
the fedora tipper and the rational one

>>2058301
I know some YECs who reject this form of YEC, further they claim that any form of theory that adds to the biblical account, be it 'created kinds, creation science, intelligent deign theories, gap creationism' etc. is heresy.

Instead they claim that dinosaurs never existed and that fossils were placed by Satan to seduce scientists and the public to hell and that there has been no radiation of species and Noah did indeed collect all currently living species for the ark.

>>2058428
some denominations have made allowances for this possibility, e.g. the pope said he would baptise aliens.

>>2058456
a common misconception
>>2057538
However, YEC theories had largely died out by the 19th century until they were revived in the mid 20th by American fundamentalists.

>>2058368
Ecclesiastes 3:19
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

>>2057269
You need to interpret a work relevant to the genre that it represents. I'm an amateur, but recently read a book called "created equal" recently about the political philosophy of the old testament and how it differed from the culture around it(note this was written by a jewish person, so some degree of exceptionalism emerges, but it's interesting nonetheless). Namely you see a lot of the stories in the old testaments are either responses to egyptian or other semitic creation/god stories, using an existing genre/style to express a monotheistic understanding of the world.

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>>2059176

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>>2059178

>>2058119
>Even the Pope, the Church, and the Patriarchs accept evolution. Islam accepts evolution. So do the Hindus and the Buddhists.
Those aren't Christians.

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>>2059181

>>2059181
What the fuck is this one even trying to say?

>>2059184
>Islam accepts evolution
Some Muslims accept evolution, there's an awful lot of Muslim creationists.

>>2058119
>The Pope said that evolution doesn't undermine the doctrines of original sin, the disobedience of the first humans, and Jesus being the literal "new Adam".
>Therefore the concept of evolution doesn't undermine the doctrines that it clearly undermines, because the Pope said so.

>>2059199
Evilution is a doctrine

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>>2059188
Check your fucking privilege. And your dubs.

>>2059201
I like how Christians have gotten to the point where they try to assert that secularism is just as irrational, dogmatic, and emotionally based as Christianity is; as an argument.

>>2059205
>That pic
>Coming from a guy whos job it is to do exactly that
Jesus Christ I have never hated cartoons more than after I came to /his/

A herd mentality. Disgusting Platonism that has separated us from God's creation. Rationality is the slave of emotion and will and has always been.
>>2057175
There is good and bad faith, you morons have bad faith.
>>2058600
Why are arguments good? You only believe this because you are a slave.

>>2058182
>Sciences are correct becuz i sed so
Fuck off, slave.

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>>2059215
Be open to new experiences, anon :^)

>>2058218
>science is correct cuz i like it
See: >>2059219

btw nice totally incorrect image.
>>2059210
Secularism is self-defeating.

>>2059176
>we shouldn't do anything about protecting our environment because we created sin

So, not only is this thinking stupid, it's dangerously short-sighted.

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>>2059226
Possibly secularism is self-defeating, but the key point I was trying to highlight was the religious trying to make the secular as "just as absurd as we are!"

It's almost as bad as when Fulton J. Sheen called religion "the second science".

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>>2059249

>>2059249
You fail to comprehend the point: a doctrine glorifying rationality as the highest thing but in doing so behaves irrationally is irrational, and so is geometrically irrational.

It's self-defeating. A doctrine that does not glorify rationality is not self-defeating nor is it really irrational.

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>>2059259
That's not where we're taking this conversation, you're not the one in charge of the question I was asking, I am.

I really don't feel like getting into this in the middle of the night, so I'll concede defeat. I just wanna spam funny pictures brah.

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>>2059276

>>2059276
Is that image what a psychotic break feels like?

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>>2059283

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>>2059287
I think the cartoonist was just taking acid and seeing what he'd come up with.

>>2059276
>implying you aren't my slave

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>>2059290

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>>2059293
*kisses you on neck*
I'll fetch your whip, master.

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>>2059299

>>2059299
Unless you're a girl in the 8th grade, I have no interest.

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>>2059304

>>2057365
The Universe is eternal and always existed without the need for a god

>>2059386
>inb4 the universe has an age

The universe of matter has an age. The fundamental forces and background energy do not.

>>2057521
Jesus never even existed, bro

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>earth is 6000 years old
tough shit then

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>>2057083
>Why are Young Earth creationists views marginalized, /his/?
Because they constantly try to push their pseudo science. And they don't respond well to reason and hard facts. Ridicule is all that's left.

>>2057108
First answer, best answer.

>>2059431
*tips fedora*

>evolution btfo yet again

>>2059441
>Fedora
Typical

YEC is /rel/ claiming to be /sci/. But when you scrutinize their claims they get butt hurt.

>>2059460
They have to reject much science, Archeology, Biology, Physics, Chemistry, Geology etc, because it does not fit with their bronze age myths, but you think it is possible to reason with them? You can debunk their 6000 year claim real easy, the problem is, they are not open for any reason.
So yeah, ridicule them when they try to push their bs and enjoy the fact that they lose influence year by year.

There is a reason church and state are separated. Public schools are supposed to teach the latest scientific theory, not theology. Literally all christian arguments in this field are useless pathos.

>>2059386
>becuz i sed so
>>2059431
Raisin and fax are irrelevant, because empiricists use neither.

Nice rhetorical image though, really strong RAISIN-EBLE argument.
>>2060266
Science is wrong though and always has been and always will.

>useless
Define use.

>>2060868
>Science is wrong though and always has been and always will
If science is wrong why are you able to shitpost on internet with a computer?

>>2060900
Another raisin-eble argument

>>2060911
No tell me if science is wrong, why does people now live longer and in better health since the discoveries of antibiotics, vaccine and all of the other medical advancement of the last two centuries?

>>2060941
>empiricism confirms empiricism

>>2060868
>Science is wrong though and always has been and always will.

Then stop using it to your benefit and go live as a goatherd in some shithole with no electricity or running water.

>>2057752
There's grape Fanta?

>>2060999
>empiricism confirms empiricism
I cannot be benefited by a nonconcept. You do realize that wrong things can still be used, right? Oh wait, you're an ideological solipsist so you reject that science existed before le telescope man.

>>2061027
>You do realize that wrong things can still be used, right?
Can, but shouldn't. Why are you using scientific advancements to your benefit if science is wrong?

For that matter, how are they possible in the first place if science is wrong?

>>2061043
>Can, but shouldn't.
Why? You use science but it's wrong.
>For that matter, how are they possible in the first place if science is wrong?
Are you autistic?

>>2061064
>Are you autistic?
No, I'm just pointing out that you're a hypocritical piece of shit.

>>2061067
No I'm not, you're just severely autistic. Like I said, an ideological solipsist

>>2057083
Because the view, and Christian fundamentalism more generally, only really has any influence in the US, and areas of sub-Saharan Africa where it's been spread by American missionaries.

>>2059392

You will bend the knee to Christ Jesus, and confess he is God.

Voluntarily or involuntarily.

I suggest voluntarily.

>>2059386

Then we are in heat death.

Oh, no, wait, we're not in heat death.

#entropydeniers

>>2057530
kek

The book that says Jesus is not God, did not die, was not crucified, and did not rise from the dead, written by a murderous pedophile 600 years after the fact?

I'll pass, thanks Achmed.

>>2057555

Yes, people who believe the bible follow Luke's genealogy of Jesus back to Adam and do the math.

What do you do again?

>>2057581
Papists. Not even once.

>>2057632
It doesn't work at all. It doesn't do anything, explain anything, predict anything, or mean anything.

>>2061121
Neither does the whole of science.

>>2057952
Is it verifiable that a demon possessed serpent/enchanter cannot talk?

How would one verify that, again?

Bonus points for not using normalcy bias.

>>2060868
>Define use.

Something that has a beneficial purpose to the field it is in. In terms of policy, the purpose in this case is to provide scientific information to young minds to hopefully get them to go into a similar field and/ or to simply educate them about the natural laws.

>Science is wrong though and always has been and always will.

True. We will continue to redefine and restructure our meaning of the scientific laws of nature as long as we are alive, but in this case it must be separated from the church, whom have moved away from supporting scientific advancement, and are a spiritual organization, much more suited to individual emotion.

>>2058238

>"Bible has errors"

OH SHIT THE COMIC ARTIST GOT TAKEN HOLD OF BY UNBIBLICAL INFLUENCES!!

>>2058012
It's not only improbable, it's impossible.

You have to have the Spirit of God in you to understand the bible.

>>2058039

I use it to demonstrate that "faith" is the human ability to believe what has not been seen; that everyone has faith in a certain measure, and that everyone uses faith in their daily lives.

It's the godless who ridicule "religious faith" as "believing without any evidence" and deify "scientific faith" as godly.

>>2061137
>Something that has a beneficial purpose to the field it is in
You defined use by saying it is use, good job fuckhead
>the purpose in this case is to provide scientific information to young minds to hopefully get them to go into a similar field and/ or to simply educate them about the natural laws.
Except it's all wrong, so it is teaching them to be wrong and but believe they are right.
Scientific advancement isn't real because science isn't actually real.

>>2058119

>The entire satanic world accepts evolution and says it invalidates the bible. Why don't Christians?

>>2058182

If sciences are in conflict with the Word of God, they need to take a step back and ask themselves why they're wasting their time, and just where they went wrong.

>>2058218
>Posts debunked picture.

>False sense of accomplishment achieved.

>>2061163
b-b-b-b-b-but i saw it on leddit!!!

>>2058371

Is any more necessary at this point in time?

>>2058428
The 1/3 of them who fell with satan will go to hell, yes. It was designed to confine them.

It will also hold their human allies quite nicely.

>>2058896
Weird how people like you never back your opinions with anything. At all. Ever.

>>2059479
Why wouldn't a rational person reject things that are always proven to be wrong, and accept things that are always proven to be true?

>>2059479
LE SCIENCE IS RIGTH CUZ I SED SO BEHEAD THOSE THAT INSULT LE SCIENCE
REASON IS GOOD BECUZ SOME PPL SED SO OVER 2000 YEARS AGO BUT IF U BELIEV BOOK WRITTEN 2000 YEARS AGO UR STUPID
PRAISE SCIENCE

>>2059479
>Archeology
Consistently finds cities mentioned in the bible. Consistently proves that anti-biblical people, places and things were real.

>Biology
Persistently proves that kind begets kind. Always. Consistently proves that we are fearfully and wonderfully made.

>Physics
Consistently proves the universe is hard wired with laws. Proven beyond all reasonable doubt that the universe is finely tuned for life, to the precision of 1 part in 10^120. Note that is more precision than picking one specific subatomic particle from the universe at random.

Chemistry
Consistently shows the order of creation; placed that order into a periodic table by men who assumed an orderly God did things in an orderly way.

>Geology
Not even a science anymore. Based on a fictional "geological column" that exists nowhere in nature. Constantly proven wrong in its findings. Constantly proving things in the bible are true. BTFO by the results of the eruption at Mt. St. Helen's.

It's not the "science".

It's not the "evidence".

It's your filter that is warped, perverted and broken.

>>2060868
>Science is wrong becuz i sed so
Hey, that's easy. I don't even have to make an argument or provide any evidence.

>>2061472
>evidence is good becuz i sed so

>>2061233
are you retarded on purpose or were you made that way?

>>2061494
You're such an idiot, even God wouldn't want you around. No heaven for you, kiddo.

>>2059283
This is actually more autistic than Christian Sonic.

>>2061233
You are living a delusional life

>>2059424
>falling for evolutionist memes

>>2061179
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism#Christian_fundamentalism_and_belief_in_a_young_Earth

The decline of support for a biblically literal young Earth during the 19th century was opposed by first the scriptural geologists[41] and then by the founders of the Victoria Institute.[42]

Christian fundamentalism and belief in a young Earth[edit]
The rise of fundamentalist Christianity at the start of the 20th century saw a renewed interest in proposals that the Earth was thousands of years old, as a part of the movement's rejection of evolution.[43] In 1923, George McCready Price, a Seventh-day Adventist, wrote The New Geology, a book partly inspired by the book Patriarchs and Prophets in which Seventh-day Adventist prophet Ellen G. White described the impact of the Great Flood on the shape of the Earth. Although not an accredited geologist, Price's writings, which were based on reading geological texts and documents rather than field or laboratory work,[44] provide an explicitly fundamentalist perspective on geology. The book attracted a small following, with its advocates almost all being Lutheran pastors and Seventh-day Adventists in America.[45]