I'm becoming more and more partial to Christianity

>Having been a fedorah for many years

Dunnoh, people dont just become believers into something because it fancies them.
You either get born into it, slowly grow into or have some absolutely mindshattering experience that makes you faithful.
So that little push might be just asking for "how can I piss of libcucks with strenghtened morals?"

8chn /christian/ is a good place if you are genuine though, I see what you see but simply am unable to believe, be it christ or Zeus.

Can someone follow Bible's moral judgments without believing in all elements of that said Bible?

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>>2047764
Sure thing brother im glad to see more and more people on 4chan being pushed over the edge by post-modern "normalcy".
>sharing some material?
Id love to man, so as far as books go Id highly recommend just reading and focusing on "the book of james" in the bible. Theologians believe it may have actually been written by jesus's brother and pretty much breaks down all of the parts of being a christian into a few pages of light reading (remember christianity was constructed to be able to be consumed by both the most learned men and illiterate plebs as well)
Also there are now TONS of you tube channels which are intelligent and funny and mirror somewhat of the "sargon of akkad" type videos without being so hypocritical when it comes to "muh materialist ability to remain 100% neutral at all times" These channels are as follows
>Thedistributist
>Fritz Imperial
and others
>experiences?
I actually converted 2 years ago just before graduating with a political science degree. I found that statistics actually pointed to the fact that christian societies have lower crime, happier families, and more fulfilled citizens- at that point i had to question: even if god isnt real, obviously this religious thing has to have somthing useful in it if its practitioners are so successful at leading fufilled lives right? I started reading the bible - was converted though the book of Ezekiel and ever since my life hasnt been the same. Im happier, more motivated to go to the gym, got a qt. traditional gf who is really sweet, and started volunteering to do chairity. This week im going to start my professional career starting Wednesday and its been one of the best decisions ive ever made.

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>>2047802
Sure, Im pretty sure it was either Jefferson or Jackson that actually took the bible and cut out all of the parts that went against science (aka miracles) and followed all of the parts of morality. It can also be called "cultural Christianity" but personally I have never met someone who doesnt eventually start experiencing things they cant explain and go full-blown believer

>>2047805
>christian societies have lower crime, happier families, and more fulfilled citizens

African ones included?
Would be interesting if it isnt dependent on wealth, were asiatic religions also taken into account?

>>2047805
Thanks bro.

>>2047805
>I found that statistics actually pointed to the fact that christian societies have lower crime, happier families, and more fulfilled citizens
Did you forget that Africa and South America exist

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>>2047764

Of for fuck's sake.

If you are going to be a Christian, don't be a fucking protty.

Because once they came around, things went down hill.

Look. Christianities high point is when they took Jerusalem back from the Muslims in 1099.

By all accounts, they should have failed against superior forces but they won.

You could have said, it was a real world miracle proven by God in a sense.

By that line of thinking the Christianity that existed during the Crusader's time was the best form.

When Luther came into power, it fractured Germany and the Ottomans almost took Vienna in 1529 only a few years after Luther was excommunicated.

Anyways the fact of the matter is Luther went protty because he wanted to fuck a nun.

Anyways... If you want to be closer to Christ and have Christianity closer to its original form, go Catholic or Orthodox.

Better yet Syrian or Assyrian or Ethiopian Christian.

Protties just re translate the Bible to whatever the fuck they feel like and cherry pick when it doesn't suit them.

>>2047764
>The bizzare passtimes of the elites, revealed by wikileaks...
Actual occultism is orders of magnitude more bizarre than Abramovich's shitty performance art.

~t. practicing tantrik and initiated Thelemite

>>2047854
>re translate the Bible to whatever the fuck they feel like and cherry pick when it doesn't suit them.
That's figuratively the concept of the Magisterium.

>>2047764
>The US presidential campaign, the way it exposed the general corruption in the media and upper echelons of society. The bizzare passtimes of the elites, revealed by wikileaks...
>In the middle of all of that, it became apparent to me that the most evil people in the world today have one thing in common, they always do the opposite of what Christianity teaches. You don't see Hillary Clinton's dubious friends desecrating the Quran in their edgy performances. So, if anything, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Are you a 16 year old, or do you just type like one?

>>2047854
>Better yet Syrian or Assyrian or Ethiopian Christian

These are almost ethno-churches as that helped them to survive better, so I dont think OP would get acess easily.

OP were do you even life?
America?

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>>2047764

I think your problem is that you haven't met any smart atheists.

Have you watched any of Sam Harris's videos:

https://www.samharris.org/blog/category/islam

He literally tears a new one into Islam and Hillary Clinton for not calling Islam out.

He is an atheist, but he points out the Christians aren't the real threat.

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>>2047764
>The US presidential campaign, the way it exposed the general corruption in the media and upper echelons of society.
Yes.

>The bizzare pastimes of the elites, revealed by wikileaks...
If you mean """pizzagate""" that's some unsubstantiated bullshit. I'm not saying our politicians AREN'T child sex traffickers i'm saying there's no enough evidence to condemn them, let alone convert to Christianity over it.

>You don't see Hillary Clinton's dubious friends desecrating the Quran in their edgy performances.
OK? I don't desecrate anyone's scripture. Shouldn't lead anyone to believe I approve of it.

>So, if anything, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Mobster logic.

>the most evil people in the world today have one thing in common, they always do the opposite of what Christianity teaches.
Um. Example. Killing people is bad. Christianity disapproves. But so does nearly every other moral system on Earth. Christianity isn't right because evil people do the opposite. Its claims are a lot more all-encompassing than that. Its claims include such binding clauses as "Worship Christ or burn in hell." It doesn't matter how moral an Atheist is, for example, he broke the first rule. Worship Christ or burn in hell. Believe in the supernatural elements of his story or burn in hell. It doesn't matter how good the secular ethics are, it coerces people into believing in supernatural claims from a young age based on little evidence. So unless you agree with those, you're S.O.L on the secular ethics.

Any of the secular ethical "rules" of Christianity can be successfully applied without actual faith in the supernatural. I never get why people act like things such as "thou shalt not kill" was some kind of Abrahamic innovation and not a very simple and inevitable pre-existing social contract that allowed societies to thrive.

>>2047878
No. South America.

There is a Greek Orthodox near where I live, but I'm not Greek so I don't feel welcome.

I tend to agree with Protestant theology more.

>>2047899

> Killing people is bad. Christianity disapproves. But so does nearly every other moral system on Earth.

Except when you are a Muslim apostate.

It specifically says you have to die.

https://youtu.be/Z59wznc5DTI

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>>2047829
Yep Asiatic religions were taken into account and I actually have quite a bit of respect for the "pseudo-religion" (dont mean that in the disrespective way but rather that it originated as a non-thiestic philosophy) Confucianism which has a really interesting concept of "Concentric circles of state" which can actually be found in later fascist writings many years later.
>>2047840
>>2047829
I never did too much research into African christian colonies but I know there is a fairly large following in Ethiopia; As far as south America it is a little bit more complicated when it comes to crime rates but you can still see geographic maps where crime such as murder,theft,rape ect. actually are "warded" off or away from the areas around churches and cathedrals. I actually got the chance to talk to a professor in Argentina about this for a project in one of my politics courses and he gave a hypothesis that is as follows: People,even irreligious people have "built in" instincts regarding the respect of areas that are societially deemed "holy". It seems that even criminals on some levels innately want to respect these religious spaces and will veer their criminal activities into areas further into urbanized areas. In Chile and Argentina rural areas are actually safe and a nice place to live - its only once you move into more secular urbanized zones that crime rates spike into astronomic levels.

>>2047914
>I tend to agree with Protestant theology more.
http://ergofabulous.org/luther/

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>>2047921
> The muzzies is bayud
> There4 DEUS VULT

Respond to my arguments with something other than propaganda to make people hate muslims more. Islamic Terrorism is not a good reason to convert to Christianity. It's a good reason to fight Islamic terror.

>>2047924
>Concentric circles of state
Can you dish out some info on this? It sounds interesting

>>2047914

Do you have a bank account or have a retirement account?

Do you profit from any thing related to making interest?

Because that's against true Christianity that the the Orthodox preach whiles protties ignore it so they can make the money.

This is your immortal soul we are talking about.

Don't be afraid to talk to the Orthodox church members about joining.

>>2047893
>Bad Muslim meme
> Muh Sam Harris
> Muh Hitchslap videos

..... S-s-sargon...is t-that you?

>>2047932

Did you watch the video?

Its Richard Dawkins asking a Muslim religious figure what the punishment for apostasy is.

Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris have studied Islam more than most moderate Muslims have bothered.

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>>2047914

>>2047955
Do you have to hate fun to be a true Christian?

>>2047964

No you just need one of these:

http://www.myholystone.com/categories/jerusalem-stone/

>>2047964
To be a true protestant

>>2047802
>>2047828
it was Jefferson, but that was because he was autistic and sperged the fuck out of shit that didn't fit his perspective (look it up he was a full on aspie)

no, in general you can't. Christian morals and ethics are at the same time affirmed in every human conscience yet contrary to human nature. Looking at the beatitudes is the fundamental core how how Christian spirituality and teachings coincide

there is no wisdom in peace, mercy, forgiveness, selflessness, and humility if Christ isn't Lord. It only works if Jesus is God incarnate. If he was not the messiah, then his teachings are worthless. They are the foundation for which they work

I, for one, am completely convinced that Christ's teachings are true. It speaks to my observation of the world more loudly and clearly than anything else possibly could. The relationship between Man and God explains everything. Jesus fulfills the needs of the human heart, and his teachings bring a sense of peace and indestructible truth. My solid understanding and acceptance of the teachings of Christ, followed with the understanding that they REQUIRE Christ to be God, is what gives me such a solid faith, even if in practice I waiver on a daily basis

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>>2047941
Sure thing
So Confucius was pretty much obsessed with ritual and tradition - even when he himself didnt believe that the ritual actually did anything. He saw the act of the ritual and the traditional structure of the thing as being a cohesive element of society that kept people together and happy working together. The concentric circles go state is almost "Zen" in its simplicity and effectiveness:

Essentially any nation is a large circle made of smaller ones (Imagine a bulls-eye). The smallest possible circle is the family - which if healthy, happy, and prosperous can allow the health of all other circles; the next is the Town or Village which has to be made of healthy families in order to exist in a good way, then you have "Provinces" or in other countrys could be called "States" which in order to exist must consist of successful families and villages. Finally you have the Nation which is the largest of the circles, MUST give proper management and support to States,Villages, AND Families.

If all of these concentric circles are properly supported and maintained than in theory you could construct a utopia that Confucius imagined.

>>2047964
To be Baptist

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>>2047914
>South America

That is a quiete pious land, you should find good communities whether they are catholic or protestant.

>>2047924
>pseudo
Well, it often seems to simply complement other beliefs which give the purely religious character (praying to spirits etc) while confucianism enhances it.

How much beef do modern christians have with the far easteners and others of that kind anyway?
The orthodox church starts interfaith dialogues with bhuddists and hindus for example, while american protestants shun those strongly as "eating from the same table as the Lord and the demons" is a core part of their beliefs and life. Who is in the right and how do the oldworld churches justifie this newfound lenience towards the civil heathen?

>>2047828
Kek isn't cultural christianity what that richcuck spencer of the ""alt right"" believes in?

>>2047764
I was an atheist until I was 21, I had a mildly religious experience that pushed me deeper into Christianity than I would have been able to get through dry interpretation but a lot of investigation for me was still self-motivated. I found the same thing as you did - the most deplorable people on Earth are in direct opposition to Christ, and the most moral people are in harmony with him, this a pretty telling sign of the legitimacy of Christianity. I discovered, upon reading the Bible, that the supposed "contradictions" that atheists always ramble about were simple not present in the actual text, I really don't think many atheists can read or understand the Bible at all, they are seriously disingenuous in their interpretation of many passages and their relevant historical context, I have yet to come across a single legitimate contradiction in the Bible and at this point.

It is easy for faith to waver in this unimaginably immoral society we live in, even after a religious experience I have still had a number of moments where I lost faith, but it has always come back to me after a short time, God is certainly helping me hold onto my faith even in times of despair, that is very clear to me now. Christianity is the truth, the absolute truth, it might take a while for you to warm up to it but if you pay attention to the world around you the truth of Christianity is self-evident, confess that Jesus is Lord and your journey will begin.

I'm not going to talk about denomination here, just be sure to give every branch a good, fair examination and you'll find the true Church.

>>2047981
>Christian morals and ethics are at the same time affirmed in every human conscience

Are you saying Christian morals and ethics are just what people default to even when they haven't heard of Christianity by this? Also why would the teachings of Jesus in his morality be useless if he wasn't the God incarnate? Are you in the belief that without God morals and ethics can't exist?

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>>2047964

What do you mean by fun? If you mean acting like an undisciplined hedonists, then yes you do.

OP, I'd recommend watching the debates of William Lane Craig.

Also C.S. Lewis's book 'Mere Christianity' is a classic among newfound Christians or those curious about the faith.

Belief in God is totally enriching on a very deep level (i.e. the spiritual). The stronger your faith, the more expertly you can handle the travails of life.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

>>2048004
Hey man this isnt OP but I (and im assuming others) would be interested in hearing your "mild religious experience"

>>2048004
Only religious experience I ever had was making myself an idol and trying to emulate worship for a long time to see if results happen as a selfexperiment as fedorahtipper.
Regret not picking it up again but its nothing you can tell anyone without feeling like an esoteric retard or shizophrenic.
The concept of an absolute truth seems rather alien, there are thousands of virtuous hindusaints as well, but we cant connect to them as its a strange culture.

So the seeker in the west miht be automatically drawn to christianity because it is the closest and not the absolute.

But hey, thats faithpart I dont understand I guesss.

>>2048008
>Christian morals and ethics are just what people default to even when they haven't heard of Christianity by this?
I wouldn't say that, but I would say that every human mind is geared towards "eye for an eye" yet every human heart is softened by forgiveness.
>why would the teachings of Jesus in his morality be useless if he wasn't the God incarnate?
because his teachings are based entirely on the theology of sin. Without God, there is no sin. Not that there can't be morals or wrongdoing, but it's not sin. Sin is an essence, and almost black-hole type of spiritual force that envelopes and sickens every person. Christs teachings are specifically geared towards healing and growing the individual spirit to be more Christlike, to be more God like. Christian teachings are not geared to create a kingdom or society on earth, Christ's kingdom is in heaven.

This is what pissed off the Jews which killed him. They wanted the messiah to have teachings that applied to this world, not the next. I mean, what's the point of saying that lust is in essence adultry if it's just a matter of ethics and not the spirit?

the other hand is that, logically, you cannot give authority to Christ's teachings without giving authority to his claims. In every Gospel he proclaims to be God. It's the CS Lewis Liar, Lunatic, or Lord theory. I feel like it's often misinterpreted to trick atheists into believing there's a logical deduction to Christs divinity, when it's actually used to combat the question of him being just "a good teacher." It's out of the question. It is an unacceptable conclusion to reading the Gospels.

>>2048004
>I have yet to come across a single legitimate contradiction in the Bible and at this point
How about Jesus' birth in Matthew and Luke

>>2047981

but you can say that morals of other religions are also affirmed in the same way.

>>2048040
I would, with the exception that this only applies to morals also found within Christianity. I can't think of a major religion with moral teachings opposed to Christianity that I find appealing/I've seen having a universal appeal or effect the way Christian morals do.

>>2047914
Convert to the native religions. Better than christianity.

>>2047764
Atheist who enjoys theology here.
My recommendation is to study early church history, read theological works by different thinkers: Augustine, Aquinas, the scholastics are surprisingly good, even modern people like Van Til or Barth (definitely Barth). It's important to separate theology and the philosophy and exegesis behind it from the common person's understanding of it.
Read through the Bible too, appreciate the really interesting stories and teachings like you would any other ancient holy book.
Basically approach it high mindedly, try to avoid any popular apologists and read the apologists that influenced them.
And read Kierkegaard. Always read Kierkegaard.

>>2048020
I prayed for God to show me the truth, as I was completely lost spiritually, having no idea which religion was true or false, and immediately afterwards I saw a vision of the cross illuminated on my bedroom wall, which then faded.

Considering prayer was something I had never really done before, to get a sign like that immediately after praying gave me the push I needed to take Christianity seriously, it all makes sense after reading the New Testament too.
>Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you. For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.
Literally all you have to do is earnestly ask and pay attention to the world around you and the Lord will reveal the truth to you if you are willing to receive it.

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I went to church as a child and teenager, then went into ultimate fedora atheist mode, and then finally came to Christianity

basically my journey has been:
don't care -> agnostic apolitical -> atheist democrat -> agnostic libertarian -> agnostic conservative -> christian conservative

***the key is in the metaphysics of religion***

OP check these two vids out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE&t=210s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqONu6wDYaE

>>2048070
other Christian currently ITT, I can back this up.

What atheists with the "why doesn't God just reveal himself to prove me wrong?" mentality don't understand is that that kind of spiritual arrogance is the polar opposite of Christianity. God has already given and shown himself more than you deserve. I mean hell, Jesus is the most famous man in history. The Bible is the most widely available book in the world. It's right in front of you. You need to open your heart to God being God though, with and knowing that it is you who needs him, not him who needs you

>>2048031
liar, lunatic or lord... why can't he be a lunatic or liar.

i also think that thing only applies if you assume christ wrote the gospels and not other random people which are unreliable/corruptible.

>>2048056
He can only do that if he is an actual indio with a connection to a community with a mostly unbroken line of worship and udnerstanding, as the indios dont want foreigners coming for their insular communities as far as I know you are telling him to LARP like odinist americans do.

>>2048058
i feel like your opinion isn't a great one; yes material but you're an atheist!

>>2048070

>Literally all you have to do is earnestly ask and pay attention to the world around you and the Lord will reveal the truth to you if you are willing to receive it.

Come on, you don't think millions of people ask and don't get the same outcome as you?

>>2047764

I highly recommend looking up Ravi Zacharias on YouTube, and Aaron Budgen at living god ministries dot net.

Aaron will teach you the gospel, and Ravi will teach you how to reason.

Just be clear that Christianity is based on two things, and two things alone:

1. That Jesus Christ is Lord God Almighty in the flesh; and
2. That he rose from the dead.

Confessing the first out loud, and believing the second in your heart will cause you to become a Christian (Romans 10:9-10).

I wish you godspeed and will pray for you. You're seeking the right path, the narrow path that is Christ Jesus, and him alone.

Once you become a born again Christian, however, know that you are merely a babe in Christ, and this place is full of monsters. Shun it until you learn about the complete armor of God so that the joy of your salvation will not be taken from you.

>>2048083
>why can't he be a lunatic or liar.
that's the argument as how I'm saying it; he can be, but then his teachings are bullshit
>other random people which are unreliable/corruptible.
no, read the Gospels yourself and any serious study on them (historical, literary, or spiritual) and you will find that the message they tell is not worthy of doubting in philosophical reliability. Yes of course its claims are extraordinary and very possibly untrue, but if it's untrue then it was an organized and early effort of untruth. The meme that Christian canon wasn't established until Constantine is essentially bullshit

>>2048100
Jesus said knock and the door will be opened to you; seek and you will find. Ask and it will be given to you; believe and you will be saved.

>>2048087
Indians generally don't care of your race, what's more important is whether you become a member of their community.

>>2048100

Jesus said that if you seek him with an open heart, you will find him.

And you will realize that he was waiting for you at that moment, at that time, and always was. He will meet you right where you are, just as you are.

>>2047854

The people you debase as "protties" were given the power by the Holy Spirit to become the children of God.

Not to become members of your church. Anyone can do that, and be doubly damned.

>>2048105

philosophical unreliability? i just mean people making shit up and theres definitely atleast some stuff in those gospels which are made up. I also find it abit disheartening the way the gospels seem to have been compiled and how they are clearly not primary sources.

>>2048112

im saying many people do seek with an open heart and do not find.

>>2048119

Explain please.

>>2048100
>Come on, you don't think millions of people ask and don't get the same outcome as you?
Obviously not everyone gets as blatant an answer as I did, but there are countless people like me who tell you with honesty that these things do happen, and you have the entire Bible at your fingertips full of the same truth I was shown, and it is even proven that Jesus was a historical person at the very least, and that he was crucified and his tomb was found empty. There is more than enough material information at your disposal to reason Christianity to be reasonably believable, but of course it is all meaningless without faith. Faith is the cornerstone of Christian belief, I could have reasoned away my experience as a hallucination, or maybe a reflection coming in my window or something, but I have faith that it was a small miracle, and that makes all the difference.

>>2048126
And Jesus says none do.

Who do you think I will believe? You? Or Jesus?

See, the obvious condition is "with an open heart". So if a person says they searched for Jesus with an open heart, but did not find him, one of two things are true:

1. They did not have an open heart; or
2. God lies.

1. is more likely, and 2. robs men of all hope.

>>2048119
>i just mean people making shit up
if this were true then the four Gospels wouldn't be theologically and philosphically reliable. Yes, at least 2 if not 3 of the Gospels are almost certain to be primary sources. I took a history course on the early, pre-consantinian Church and I believe it's Luke and Mark as the earliest Gospels, with Matthew potentially being an offshoot of Mark

John is one of the latest Gospels, but it's also the most original in content yet doesn't oppose the other three in any meaningful way

>>2048108
Most ethnic groups dont care about race, but being a part of them is most evident by having two parents who were part of them which makes the race thing often more of a convenient indicator then something people obsessed over since always.

Anyway, this has potential to derail.
I just mean that OP would have to go out of his way to find one of the few remaining splintergroups that are left, might as well become christian which offers a solid base for life and death as evidenced by its popularity.

>>2048129
I've heard many testimonies like yours. One man in the bible demanded that a fleece be wet and the ground dry in the morning, and then when that happened, he demanded the fleece be dry and the ground be wet the next morning, and that happened too.

More recently, a Christian giving his testimony on the radio told Jesus that he couldn't give his heart to Jesus if Jesus couldn't do something simple, like cure his dog of the mange. The dog had been treated ineffectively for months, but the next day was made whole.

God's not adverse to proving himself to people.

He's adverse to forcing himself on people.

I love your sign, because when I get weary and bloodied, that's where I go. I go to the cross. I go to where my savior died in my place, pinning my bill of crimes on that cross, and paying my penalty for them, which is death, and eternal separation from him. I place my hand on his bloody head knowing in my heart that I would have driven the nails into his hands and feet, or stabbed him in the heart, just so that I could live.

And he knowing that loved me anyways, and died for me anyways.

No greater love.

>>2048131
>>2048126
going to back up the anon who replied to you

many people ask for God with *but* clauses
>God I want you in my life, but I need my personal strongholds
>God I want you but I won't or can't change that much
>God I want you but only some of you
>God I know I've rejected you in the past and currently have the same mentality and emotional worldview as back then, but I need you to save me from my problems
>God I want you but to fight on my side against other people
>God I want you to give me what I want
etc etc.

>>2048136
Dude, Luke said outright that he took everyone's account and put everything into good order.

Saying Luke is not a primary source is believing what Luke wrote. That he took what people wrote and put it into good order.

Then he wrote the Acts of the Apostles.

Don't believe this nonsense about a Q that other gospels are based on; it's merely a ploy to denigrate the fact that three apostles, Matthew Peter (through John Mark) and John wrote their own eyewitness testimonies of their years with Jesus.

And bearing witness to his life, ministry, miracles and resurrection.

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>>2048116

Where is your miracles?

I'd agree that the Catholic church leadership is rather weak, but in the paste they created the Crusades and saved Europe from Muslims several times.

What has Protestant done short of give King Henry an heir that died and corrupt Christianity by letting Christians commit usury for profit.

You say you have the holy spirit, but even Muslims claim they have the one true religion.

>>2048131

>Who do you think I will believe? You? Or Jesus?

i dont think you're the most reliable source of information either dude, especially with that reasoning.

>>2048148
My grandson with a hole in his heart had the hole disappear after being prayed for.

My deaf, dumb and blind grandson regained his hearing, sight and speech when prayed for.

At least twice my vehicle has occupied the same space as another vehicle without being hit, or rolling over, or me dying.

At least twice angels kept me from bleeding to death.

The reason you do not see miracles is that you do not know God, and you cannot see things through God's eyes.

Nor would you believe if you did see a miracle; not all Jews in Jerusalem were saved.

Christians have formed the Church, with Christ as its head, and have secured places in heaven, in the New Jerusalem, to live with Jesus Christ forever after this universe is destroyed.

After the universe is destroyed, your precious accomplishments of your whore church will be remembered no more, and its inhabitants sharing space with your spiritual father, the devil himself, in a dark lake of fire.

If you cannot debunk Islam, which preaches that Jesus was not God, did not die, was not crucified, is not part of the Trinity, and did not rise from the dead, I see no basis for you to consider yourself anything but lost, blind, and poor.

>>2048152
Jesus said one thing.

You contradicted Jesus.

As a Christian, which person do you think I hold in higher esteem? Jesus? Or you?

Who do you think God the Father holds in higher esteem? Jesus speaking the truth?

Or you, lying?

You don't have to get your information from me. You can get it from the bible, and from the Holy Spirit of God directly.

I suggest you do so, quickly.

>>2048136
mark is the earliest gospel(or thought as) but that doesn't mean it was an eye witness account. In fact, the earliest dated books in the new testament is usually pauls work. thats how non-primary the gospels are. In my opinion, there is definitely some stuff in the gospels which had to be made up independently.

>>2048165
Paul is also an eyewitness to the risen Christ Jesus, and also spent years with Jesus in Arabia.

By lying you do the devil's work, and prove to God that you are worthy of the same fate as the devil.

Repent, and be saved, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

>>2048160

I don't mean to be that guy, but even Hitler survived death all the time. Like 30 times in his life.

Unless you think he was a good Christian.

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>I already believe in Christian morality despite not believing in god and the fact that the elites don't follow Christian morality is making me want to believe in god.

The bigger question OP is why you thought the elites are evil to begin with.

>>2048165
>In fact, the earliest dated books in the new testament is usually pauls work. thats how non-primary the gospels are
how do Paul's letters being dated earlier than Mark mean that Mark never wrote the Gospel? or that John never wrote his Gospel, Revelations, or Epistles?

and Paul is a primary source to the divine nature of Christ, if not the Man. And his encounters with Peter, probably the most reliable eye witness of Christ as a man, are a testament to his legitimacy

>>2048164

dude, i don't know you think youre convincing but its not me.

and again, you don't think you should believe me? well i think the same of you.

and i've read the gospels thank you.

>>2048172

Nah. It wasn't that much. It was only about seven times, but hey that's better than most people.

http://militaryhistorynow.com/2015/12/03/lucky-bastard-seven-times-hitler-narrowly-escaped-death/

>>2048172
Yeah but nobody likes Jews. Jesus himself was like "shit man this religion sucks my version is better"

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>>2048186
I like Jews and I think their religion is neat.

>>2048168

dude, whats wrong with you, im jkust giving my opinion, calm down. im not lying if its my honest belief.

>>2048178
you would think someone wrote it before.

>>2048191
Well, it was innovative at least.

Why are the genealogies of jesus in luke and matthew contradictory? that clearly shows that someone made atleast one thing was definitely made up.

>>2047764
Fuck off back to Pol or the donald

>>2048193
>you would think
so now do you see why Christians don't take the argument of the inauthenticity of the New Testament seriously?

Sure there's reasons to doubt, as you even just said there. It's not unfounded, and not unreasonable, but the only reason to give credence to that line of reasoning OVER the reasoning that
>all of the New Testament is theologically and philosophically sound
>vast, vast majority if not all of the New Testament can be traced back to very early times historically
>therefore, it's unlikely that the New Testament is the result of random people making up their own ideas and interpretations of a mythological man which embodies the spirit of his time and place, and these ideas over time were then morphed into a single story with a single ideology

>>2048212

well i don't necessarily mean random things up but theres reason to think of bias and the making up of events in order to fit agendas of the writers.

>>2048218
>but theres reason to think of bias and the making up of events in order to fit agendas of the writers.
yes they really wanted to be persecuted by Jews and Romans lmao

>>2048227

how would that have anything to do with being persecuted by jews or romans.

no i mean things like fulfilling messianic prophecies.

Thank you everyone for the answers. I'm going to sleep now.

>>2047840
You can blame that on colonization

>>2048238
the direct result of preaching Christianity in the society of the early church is persecution. People don't just make up stories to "fulfill prophecies" like the fantasy trope exists today. That makes no sense at all why people would go through punishment, suffering, and death all just to pretend that something happened

they'd need a reason for those prophecies to be fulfilled. In fact, one good reason would have been the independence of Israel. Zealots wanted the messiah to deliver Israel from Rome, but Jesus is counter revolutionary. He said to submit to authority and worry about loving your neighbor.

If you can think of a single reason why Christianity would benefit the early jews then we can have a discussion
>the agendas of the writers
>fulfilling prophecy

im trying to respect you but this is seriously retarded

>>2048260

What if they believed in the story of jesus already but just edited it to emphasize messianic prophecies to be more convincing to jews... that makes sense.

>>2048292
no, that still doesn't make sense then because we're back to our original argument (over the reliability and consistency of the NT) and THEN some.

Christianity was taught to the Greeks. Why would someone care about jewish OT nitpicking in making up a story to be told to Greeks and written in Greek?

>>2048300

why does it go back to the original argument, what is the original argument? It wasn't just told to greeks, there were alot of jewish christians as well in the beginning.

>>2048300

the new testament isn't 100% consistent.

>>2048300
Why does the NT cite messianic prophecies in the first place then? Why even call him the messiah?

Furthermore there are actual proven examples of the gospels inventing fulfilled prophecies, like Jesus' birth in Bethlehem.

>>2048310
that the NT could not have been composited of made up stories because of the level of consistency in teaching. That's just so unlikely that it's absurd to accept just because the alternative has supernatural implications
>>2048317
>Why does the NT cite messianic prophecies in the first place then? Why even call him the messiah?
Because was the messiah of the Jews, but now opens the arms of the God of Abraham to the whole world. I never once claimed that Jesus wasn't Jewish. That would be completely retarded. What's just as stupid and baseless though is to look at the Jewish elements of Jesus and use that as reasoning behind theorizing his fabrication, since common sense opposes that at every turn.

>>2048316
please show me which teachings are inconsistent? The genealogies in the two Gospels have already been mentioned ITT

>>2047829
The Ethiopian kingdom was one of the wealthiest and longest Christian empires which reigned for almost a millennium

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>>2048358
I meant contemporary ones.

>>2048369
Their governments were too retarded that they sold their countries to the IMF/ World Bank. Also, some of those states fell from communism and got a hard time recovering (ie;Mozambique, Ethiopia, Somalia, etc.) or fell from civil war which recently ended (ie; Congo/ Zaire, Rhodesia). Also, niggers

>>2048332

i think you can still have broadly consistent teachings without the document having to be historically reliable. thats abit fallacious to think otherwise i think and im sure theres examples from other philosophies or religions that would hold to that. And if sources aren't independent (they can influence eachother) i'm sure they converge and infact given how gospels were selected im sure they would have been selected to converge anyway especially considering apocrypha out there.

Consistency of teachings is kind of subjective too though. you have to interpret whether they are consistent and yes broadly they could be argued to be but the details of the teachings are evidently inconsistent aren't they across sources. Some in some sources and not in others.

Herod's dated rule and the census in bethlehem are inconsistent. There are mistakes so the NT is inconsistent and capable of it to some extent. There are things in there which are verifiably not true.

>>2047764
>Any any anon help me with that by sharing some material, experiences? Thanks.


I was also a fedora a few years ago, but i became interested to Christianity because of my cultural background, after reading a lot of books about my culture i became very defensive towards Christianity because i learned about how relevant Christianity was to my culture, after that, i basically shifted from fedorism to cultural christianity, and now, i'm a Cafeteria Catholic and will surely raise my kids as devout catholics.

>>2047764
Evangelical Protestantism is overwhelmingly fundamentalist, and fundamentalist Christianity tries to control both your free will and your relationship with God through extremely literal and narrow interpretations of human-transcribed, human-revised scripture. If you really want a relationship with God that will help you become a better person and find the bliss that He offers, then you're not going to find it by brainwashing yourself into membership amongst a zealous collective that tries to repress and control the very same free will they profess God blessed mankind with.

Read the Bible and other scripture on your own, and endeavour to read the Tanakh and Talmud and Quran, and endeavour further to read the scripture of other religions, theology, and religious philosophy; most importantly, interpret what God is to you, and forge your own relationship with Him.

You say that you revile evil, that there are evil people in the world and that they occupy specific places in society, but how does it make you labour to be good, what does it really mean, what is the connection, the intersection, between God, yourself, and the world?

>>2049243
Free will is an illusion, everything is pre-determined from the moment of creation

ITT: RCs desperately trying to justify heresy and idolatry

>>2049262
Wrong

>>2049262
Even accepting if that statement is correct, then it must be clarified further free will is a useful illusion, because predetermination operates upon and exploits decisions seemingly made in free will. For instance, the Calvinist precept that someone predetermined for salvation will still make decisions and moral reasonings because they were predetermined to.

>>2049243
>Evangelical Protestantism is overwhelmingly fundamentalist, and fundamentalist Christianity tries to control both your free will and your relationship with God through extremely literal and narrow interpretations of human-transcribed, human-revised scripture. If you really want a relationship with God that will help you become a better person and find the bliss that He offers, then you're not going to find it by brainwashing yourself into membership amongst a zealous collective that tries to repress and control the very same free will they profess God blessed mankind with.

non-denomination Christian here; this is not how teachings and spiritual growth happens at all. This is mostly a strawman argument against the worst kinds of American churches and the lingering stigma of Puritanism

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>>2047764
Take the bread pill, Anon.

>>2049326
>RC's in charge of reading with context
>lol let's just eat Jesus and drink his blood over and over again and I will be saved oops I forgot to confess to my priest guess that means I'm not allowed to eat Jesus today lol

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>>2049332
>KJV
>RC

Know how I know you're a false flagger?

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>>2047764
>they always do the opposite of what Christianity teaches
religion is for controlling the masses, nothing more. it's what muhammed used it for. it's what constantine used it for. it's what u.s. politicians use it for. there's a reason marx called it the opium of the masses and /his/torians call believers cucks.

you have to be utterly stupid to realize the above and then voluntarily move /in the direction/ of becoming one of the pawns of the elite. read up on nietzsche's master/slave morality, you stupid faggot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%80%93slave_morality

>"You need both a public and a private position. You just have to sort of figure out how to -- getting back to that word, "balance" -- how to balance the public and the private efforts that
are necessary to be successful, politically, and that's not just a comment about today. That, I think, has probably been true for all of our history." - Hillary Clinton (via Wikileaks)
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/927

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>>2047764
I have had exactly the same thoughts. But there is also a feeling of i don't need to embrace it for myself because i can oppose degeneracy without it aswell, but i will never spit on it as i have in my previous years

>>2047764
These:
>>2049529
>>2049749

I don't need religion to be ethical.
I can oppose degeneracy without throwing my rational mind away.

And I can only be free without a master.

>>2047924
>People,even irreligious people have "built in" instincts regarding the respect of areas that are societially deemed "holy"

Im Chilean and i can tell you that this is sadly ending.

This year, some young leftist students broke into a cathedral, burned the doors and stole and shattered the christ in the cross during a protest.

The politization of religion is rapidly killing the reverence of society to the works of charity and moral guidance of not just the catholic but all churches. Religiousness in general is associated with being 'high class', rich and right wing, so they have a permanent, boiling hatred of it.

I am not even Christian or faithful in general, i study and incorporate reasoning and ideas from everything i am ofered, but respect and understanding are my deepest convictions and i am pained not just by these acts but also by the destruction of archeological and historical heritage that also happens due to the blind hatred and disrespect towards spirituality that keeps growing here.

>>2047802
Obviously.

Even the most conservative YE Creationist retard does that, they just won't admit it.

>>2047860
>theletubby
Wow I'm sure John podesta is impressed

>>2048148
>the paste they created the Crusades and saved Europe from Muslims several times.

And ultimately destroyed Christianity.

>>2050692
Protestantism destroyed Christianity. It removed the sacred and left only the mundane.

>>2050734
>It removed the sacred and left only the mundane.
it's almost the complete opposite

it purged the church of sacrament, ritual, and hierarchy (pagan influence in post-Constantinian Catholicism) and left only Jesus, only the Holy Spirit

>>2049328
Where's the Left Behind series.

>>2050734

Christianity being the Orthodox church of Constantinople, which the destroyed, along with the last true Roman government and peoples, who were the actual guardians of Europe.

What petty squabble some German jackoff started doesn't matter after they enabled arab and turk warlords and hordes take over holy land and doomed millions of christians from Pontos to Alexandria.