Tantra: A History

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>>2035001
This probably relates to a few instances in the core Buddhist scriptures.

One of Buddha's early followers was Vaisanga, a man who was almost certainly a kapalika mystic. The following story is in Dhammapada, but we've got fragments of varying detail elsewhere such as the Pali canon and a number of poems attributed to the dude ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/ireland/wheel417.html ):

Once, in Rajagaha, there was a brahmin by the name of Vangisa, who by simply tapping on the skull of a dead person could tell whether that person was reborn in the world of the devas, or of the human beings, or in one of the four lower worlds (apayas). The brahmins took Vangisa to many villages and people flocked to him and paid him ten, twenty or a hundred to find out from him where their various dead relatives were reborn.

On one occasion, Vangisa and his party came to a place not far from the Jetavana monastery. Seeing those people, who were going to the Buddha, the brahmins invited them to come to Vangisa, who could tell where their relatives had been reborn. But the Buddha's disciples said to them, "Our teacher is one without a rival, he only is the Enlightened One." The brahmins took that statement as a challenge and took Vangisa along with them to the Jetavana monastery to compete with the Buddha. The Buddha, knowing their intention, instructed the Bhikkhus to bring the skulls of a person reborn in niraya, of a person reborn in the animal world, of a person reborn in the human world, of a person reborn in the deva world and also of an Arahat.

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>>2035012
The five were then placed in a row. When Vangisa was shown those skulls he could tell where the owners of the first four skulls were reborn, but when he came to the skull of the Arahat, he was at a loss. Then the Buddha said, "Vangisa, don't you know? I do know, where the owner of that skull is." Vangisa then asked the Buddha to let him have the magical incantation (mantra) by which he could thus know; but the Buddha told him that the mantra could be given only to a Bhikkhu. Vangisa then told the brahmins to wait outside the monastery, while he was being taught the mantra. Thus, Vangisa became a Bhikkhu and as a Bhikkhu, he was instructed by the Buddha to contemplate the thirty-two constituents of the body. Vangisa diligently practised meditation as instructed by the Buddha and attained Arahatship within a short time.

Ok, so who were these Skull Tappers….? The best bet is that they were, or a forerunner of, the Kapalikas, who are thought to be one of the wellsprings of the Tantric transmissions.

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>>2035017
The Kāpālika tradition was a non-Puranic form of Shaivism in India. The word Kāpālikas is derived from kapāla meaning "skull", and Kāpālikas means the "skull-men". The Kāpālikas traditionally carried a skull-topped trident (khatvanga) and an empty skull as a begging bowl. Other attributes associated with Kāpālikas were that they smeared their body with ashes from the cremation ground, revered the fierce Bhairava form of Shiva, engaged in rituals with blood, meat, alcohol, and sexual fluids.

According to David Lorenzen, there is a paucity of primary sources on Kapalikas, and historical information about them is available from fictional works and other traditions who disparage them. Various Indian texts claim that the Kāpālika drank liquor freely, both for ritual and as a matter of habit. The Chinese pilgrim to India in the 7th century, Hsuan Tsang, in his memoir on what is now northwest Pakistan, wrote about Buddhists living with naked ascetics who cover themselves with ashes and wore bone wreathes on their heads, but Hsuan Tsang does not call them Kapalikas or any particular name. Scholars have interpreted these ascetics variously as Digambara Jains, Pashupatas and Kapalikas.

Mattavilasa Prahasana (Devanagari:मत्तविलासप्रहसन), (English: A Farce of Drunken Sport) is a short one-act Sanskrit play. It is one of the two great one act plays written by Pallava King Mahendravarman I (571– 630CE) in the beginning of the seventh century in Tamil Nadu.

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>>2035024
Mattavilasa Prahasana opens with the entering of two drunken Kapalikas, Satyasoma and his woman, Devasoma. Full of drunken antics, they stumble from tavern to tavern searching for more alcohol. The Kapalikas are told to be followers of a Saivite sect whose rites included drinking, wild dancing and singing, and ritual intercourse with their partners. As Satysoma asks for more alms, he realizes that he has lost his sacred skull-bowl. Devasoma suggests that he might have left it at the tavern they previously visited. To their dismay, it was not there. Satyasoma suspects that either a dog or a Buddhist monk has taken it.

A Buddhist monk, Nagasena, enters the stage and the Kapalika suggests that he is the culprit-the one who has stolen the skull-bowl. Satyasoma criticizes the Buddhist monk by saying that he steals, lies, and desires liquor, meat and women even though his religion prohibits it. As for Buddhism itself, the Kapali accuses it of stealing ideas from the Mahabharata and the Vedanta. Satyasoma argues with the monk who denies the accusations and the dispute eventually leads to a physical brawl. As the fighting escalates, another mendicant, a Pasupata acquaintance of Satyasoma's, enters and mediates the situation. The drawn-out argument continues until the Buddhist monk, in despair, gives his begging bowl to a delusional Satyasoma.

The Madman enters the stage and in his hand is Satyasoma's real skull-bowl. The madman recovered the bowl from a dog and the skull-bowl is finally returned to its delighted, rightful owner. There is a happy resolution and all characters leave in an amicable fashion.

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>>2035029
It is widely held that Mahendra’s play is a satire of the degenerate sects of his day. For example, both the Kapalika and Pasupata sects must have been considered peculiar during Mahendra’s reign, and the king satirizes them in his play. The Kapalikas embodied a serious, yet suspect, religious concept: Tantrism where religious enlightenment is attained through unorthodox rituals. Some of these notorious rituals were Madya (liquor) and Maithuna (ritual intercourse). Meanwhile, these rituals are satirically echoed by Nagasena, the Buddhist monk, who wonders why Buddhism disallows liquor and women. Jainism isn’t spared from Mahendra’s satirical pen as both Devasoma and Satyasoma describe Jains as heretics.

Another sect we have knowledge of is the Kalamukha, a medieval Shaivite sect of the Deccan Plateau who were among the first professional monks of India. Their earliest monasteries were built in Mysore.

Ramanuja, a Vaishnavite acharya, may have confused the Kalamukha with the Kapalikas in his Sri Bhasya work, in which he noted them as eating from a skull and keeping wine. Such practices were common for the Kapalikas but are atypical for the Kalamukhas. His writings may have been coloured by his experienced of being a member of a different school and being forced by the Kalamukhas and other Shavites to leave his native Tamil Nadu. There was also possibly a desire to discredit because of an element of fear or jealousy driven by the then rising popularity of the Kalamukhas. Nandi notes that:

the Kalamukhas were a saivite sect of social and religious reformers with a strong social basis, whereas the Kapalikas were a sect of selfish self-seekers practising queer and gruesome rites at the cremation ground, away from human localities.

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>>2035038
Nonetheless, for many years scholars such as R. G. Bhandarkar believed the Kalamukhas to be a more extreme sect than the Kapalikas, despite acknowledging that Ramanuja's written accounta were confused. David Lorenzen believes this error lay in placing emphasis on Ramanuja's skewed written record above that placed on such epigraphical evidence from inscriptions as had been collated by the time Bhandarkar and others analyzed the situation.

For more on Kapalikas and Kalamukhas, you can read… “Kapalikas and Kalamukhas”, which of course is in my Eastern folder.

Coming from these transmissions is the modern Vamachara practices.

Vāmācāra (Sanskrit: वामाचार) is a Sanskrit term meaning "left-handed attainment" and is synonymous with "Left-Hand Path" or "Left-path" (Sanskrit: Vāmamārga).It is used to describe a particular mode of worship or sadhana (spiritual practice) that is not only "heterodox" (Sanskrit: nāstika) to standard Vedic injunction, but extreme in comparison to the status quo.

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>>2035049
These practices are often generally considered to be Tantric in orientation. The converse term is dakṣiṇācāra "Right-Hand Path", which is used to refer not only to "orthodox" (Āstika) sects but to modes of spirituality that engage in spiritual practices that not only accord with Vedic injunction but are generally agreeable to the status quo.

Left-handed and right-handed modes of practice may be evident in both orthodox and heterodox schools of Indian religions such as Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism and is a matter of taste, culture, proclivity, initiation, sadhana and dharmic "lineage" (parampara).

Vamachara is particularly associated with the pancha-makara or the "Five Ms", also known as the pancha-tattva. In literal terms they are: Madya (wine), Mamsa (meat), Matsya (fish), Mudra (cereal), and Maithuna (sexual intercourse). Mudra usually means ritual gestures, but as part of the five Ms it is parched cereal.

Vamachara traditions place strict ritual limits on the use of these literal forms and warn against nonsanctioned use. If so used they encourage the person to sin. Practitioners of vamachara rituals may make symbolic substitutions for these literal things, which are not permitted in orthodox Hindu practice. The fact that tantric practices can be done without involvement with the literal pancha-makara is emphasized by Swami Madhavananda, and said to have been practiced by numerous saints.

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>>2035057
Dating from around 850-900 CE, the Siva Sutras and Spandakārikā were the first attempt from the Śākta Śaiva domain to present a non-dualistic metaphysics and gnostic soteriology in opposition to the dualistic exegesis of the Saiva Siddhanta. The Siva Sutras appeared to Vasugupta in a dream, according to tradition. The Spandakārikā was either composed by Vasugupta or his student Bhatta Kallata.

Somananda, the first theologian of monistic Shaivism, was the teacher of Utpaladeva, who was the grand-teacher of Abhinavagupta, who in turn was the teacher of Ksemaraja.

The Kulamārga is a category of Saktism and tantric Saivism which preserves some of the distinctive features of the Kāpālika tradition, from which it is derived. It is subdivided into four subcategories of texts based on the goddesses Kuleśvarī, Kubjikā, Kālī and Tripurasundarī respectively. The Trika texts are closely related to the Kuleśvarī texts and can be considered as part of the Kulamārga.

The Kulamārga is one of the roots of hatha yoga.

What I'm interested in is Uttara Kaula Trika, or Kashmiri Saivism. Trika, a concept of Kashmir Shaivism, refers to the 3 goddesses Parā, Parāparā and Aparā which are named in the Mālinivijayottata-tantra.

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>>2035070
Kashmir Shaivism is a group of nondualist Tantric Shaiva exegetical traditions from Kashmir that originated after 850 CE. The Tantrāloka, Mālinīślokavārttika, and Tantrasāra of the Kashmirian Abhinavagupta (975–1025 CE) are formally an exegesis on the Mālinīvijayottara Tantra, although they also drew heavily on the Kali-based Krama subcategory of the Kulamārga.

Abhinavagupta was a philosopher, mystic and aesthetician from Kashmir. He was also considered an influential musician, poet, dramatist, exegete, theologian, and logician – a polymathic personality who exercised strong influences on Indian culture.

He was born in Kashmir in a family of scholars and mystics and studied all the schools of philosophy and art of his time under the guidance of as many as fifteen (or more) teachers and gurus. In his long life he completed over 35 works, the largest and most famous of which is Tantrāloka, an encyclopaedic treatise on all the philosophical and practical aspects of Trika and Kaula (known today as Kashmir Shaivism). Another one of his very important contributions was in the field of philosophy of aesthetics with his famous Abhinavabhāratī commentary of Nāṭyaśāstra of Bharata Muni.

Abhinavagupta's thought was strongly influenced by Buddhist logic.

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>>2035077
One of the most important works of Abhinavagupta is Īśvarapratyabhijñā-vimarśini ("Commentary to the Verses on the Recognition of the Lord") and Īśvarapratyabhijñā-vivṛti-vimarśini ("Commentary on the explanation of Īśvarapratyabhijñā"). This treatise is fundamental in the transmission of the Pratyabhijña school (the branch of Kashmir Shaivism based on direct recognition of the Lord) to our days. Another commentary on a Pratyabhijña work – Śivadṛṣtyā-locana ("Light on Śivadṛṣṭi") – is now lost. Another lost commentary is Padārthapraveśa-nirṇaya-ṭīkā and Prakīrṇkavivaraṇa ("Comment on the Notebook") referring to the third chapter of Vākyapadīya of Bhartrihari. Two more philosophical texts of Abhinavagupta are Kathāmukha-tilaka("Ornament of the Face of Discourses") and Bhedavāda-vidāraṇa ("Confrontation of the Dualist Thesis").

Abhinavagupta's most important work on the philosophy of art is Abhinavabhāratī – a long and complex commentary on Natya Shastra of Bharata Muni. This work has been one of the most important factors contributing to Abhinavagupta's fame up until present day. His most important contribution was that to the theory of rasa (aesthetic savour).

This is where Buddhism reenters the dialogue.

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>>2035087
Vajrayāna (Sanskrit: वज्रयान, literally meaning either the Diamond Vehicle or Thunderbolt Vehicle) is the tantric corpus of Buddhism.

According to Vajrayāna scriptures, the term Vajrayāna refers to one of three vehicles or routes to enlightenment, the other two being the Śrāvakayāna (also known as the Hīnayāna) and Mahāyāna.

Founded by Indian Mahāsiddhas, Vajrayāna subscribes to Buddhist tantric literature.

Various classes of Vajrayana literature developed as a result of royal courts sponsoring both Buddhism and Saivism. The Mañjusrimulakalpa, which later came to be classified under Kriyatantra, states that mantras taught in the Shaiva, Garuda and Vaishnava tantras will be effective if applied by Buddhists since they were all taught originally by Manjushri. The Guhyasiddhi of Padmavajra, a work associated with the Guhyasamaja tradition, prescribes acting as a Shaiva guru and initiating members into Saiva Siddhanta scriptures and mandalas. The Samvara tantra texts adopted the pitha list from the Shaiva text Tantrasadbhava, introducing a copying error where a deity was mistaken for a place.

The goal of spiritual practice within the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions is to become a Bodhisattva (i.e. attainment of a state in which one will subsequently become a Buddha—after some further reincarnation), whereas the goal for Theravada practice is specific to become an arhat (i.e. attain enlightenment with no intention of returning, not even as a Buddha).

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>>2035093
In the Sutrayana practice, a path of Mahayana, the "path of the cause" is taken, whereby a practitioner starts with his or her potential Buddha-nature and nurtures it to produce the fruit of Buddhahood. In the Vajrayana the "path of the fruit" is taken whereby the practitioner takes his or her innate Buddha-nature as the means of practice. The premise is that since we innately have an enlightened mind, practicing seeing the world in terms of ultimate truth can help us to attain our full Buddha-nature.

Experiencing ultimate truth is said to be the purpose of all the various tantric techniques practiced in the Vajrayana. Apart from the advanced meditation practices such as Mahamudra and Dzogchen, which aim to experience śūnyatā, the empty nature of the enlightened mind that can see ultimate truth, all practices are aimed in some way at purifying the impure perception of the practitioner to allow ultimate truth to be seen. These may be ngöndro "preliminary practices" or the more advanced techniques of the tantric sādhanā.

Anuttarayoga Tantra (Sanskrit, Tibetan: bla na med pa'i rgyud), often translated as Unexcelled Yoga Tantra or Highest Yoga Tantra, is a term used in Tibetan Buddhism in the categorization of esoteric tantric Indian Buddhist texts that constitute part of the Kangyur, or the 'translated words of the Buddha' in the Tibetan Buddhist canon.

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>>2035118
In the New Schools of Tibetan Buddhism, Anuttarayoga Tantra is the highest of four classes and is associated with the Mahamudra route to enlightenment. According to the Gelugpa tradition, in Highest Yoga Tantra, the Buddha taught the most profound instructions for transforming sensual pleasure into the quick path to enlightenment, which in turn depends upon the ability to gather and dissolve the inner winds (Sanskrit: prana) into the central channel through the power of meditation.

>The Tibetan Schools:
Nyingma
"The Ancient Ones" is the oldest school of Tibetan Buddhism and the original order founded by Padmasambhava and Śāntarakṣita. Whereas other schools categorize their teachings into the three yānas or "vehicles", Hīnayāna, Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna, the Nyingma tradition classifies its teachings into Nine Yānas, among the highest of which is Dzogchen. Terma "treasures" (revealed texts) are of particular significance to the Nyingma school.

Kagyu
"Lineage of the (Buddha's) Word". This is an oral tradition which is very much concerned with the experiential dimension of meditation. Its most famous exponent was Milarepa, an 11th-century mystic. It contains one major and one minor subsect. The first, the Dagpo Kagyu, encompasses those Kagyu schools that trace back to the Indian master Naropa via Marpa Lotsawa, Milarepa and Gampopa and consists of four major sub-sects.

Sakya
The "Grey Earth" school represents the scholarly tradition. Headed by the Sakya Trizin, this tradition was founded by Khön Könchok Gyelpo (Wylie: 'khon dkon mchog rgyal po, 1034–1102), a disciple of the great lotsāwa Drogmi Shākya (Wylie: brog mi lo tsā wa ye shes) and traces its lineage to the mahasiddha Virūpa. A renowned exponent, Sakya Pandita, was the great-grandson of Khön Könchok Gyelpo.

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>>2035123

Gelug
The "Way of Virtue" school was originally a reformist movement and is known for its emphasis on logic and debate. The order was founded in the 14th to 15th century by Je Tsongkhapa, renowned for both his scholarship and virtue. Its spiritual head is the Ganden Tripa and its temporal one the Dalai Lama.

These first four major schools are sometimes said to constitute the Nyingma "Old Translation" and Sarma "New Translation" traditions, the latter following from the historical Kadam lineage of translations and tantric lineages. Another common but trivial differentiation is into the Yellow Hat (Gelug) and Red Hat (non-Gelug) sects.

There is some interesting history in Tibet's interface with Christianity:

The first Christians documented to have reached Tibet were the Nestorians, of whom various remains and inscriptions have been found in Tibet. They were also present at the imperial camp of Möngke Khan at Shira Ordo, where they debated in 1256 with Karma Pakshi (1204/6-83), head of the Karma Kagyu order. Desideri, who reached Lhasa in 1716, encountered Armenian and Russian merchants.

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>>2035134
Roman Catholic Jesuits and Capuchins arrived from Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries. Portuguese missionaries Jesuit Father António de Andrade and Brother Manuel Marques first reached the kingdom of Gelu in western Tibet in 1624 and was welcomed by the royal family who allowed them to build a church later on. By 1627, there were about a hundred local converts in the Guge kingdom. Later on, Christianity was introduced to Rudok, Ladakh and Tsang and was welcomed by the ruler of the Tsang kingdom, where Andrade and his fellows established a Jesuit outpost at Shigatse in 1626.

In 1661 another Jesuit, Johann Grueber, crossed Tibet from Sining to Lhasa (where he spent a month), before heading on to Nepal. He was followed by others who actually built a church in Lhasa. These included the Jesuit Father Ippolito Desideri, 1716–1721, who gained a deep knowledge of Tibetan culture, language and Buddhism, and various Capuchins in 1707–1711, 1716–1733 and 1741–1745, Christianity was used by some Tibetan monarchs and their courts and the Karmapa sect lamas to counterbalance the influence of the Gelugpa sect in the 17th century until in 1745 when all the missionaries were expelled at the lama's insistence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ippolito_Desideri#Journey_to_Tibet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant%C3%B3nio_de_Andrade
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Grueber

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>>2035141
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpmyoKAaHOM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIomqpX3Ek0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ6ksMys8dg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_I5Ahe8c64

Unborn, yet continuing without interruption
neither coming nor going, omnipresent
Supreme Dharma
unchangeable space, without definition
spontaneously self-liberating-
perfectly unobstructed state-
manifest from the very beginning
self-created, without location
with nothing negative to reject
and nothing positive to accept
infinite expanse, penetrating everywhere
immense, and without limits, without ties
with nothing even to dissolve
or to be liberated from
manifest beyond space and time
existing from the beginning
immense inner space,
radiant through clarity
like the Sun and the Moon,
self-perfected
indestructible like a Vajra
stable as a mountain
pure as a lotus
strong as a lion
incomparable pleasure beyond all limits
illumination, equanimity
peak of the Dharma
light of the [U]niverse
perfect from the beginning

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>>2035155
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDezBavzams


Sarat Chandra Das, writing at the turn of the 20th Century, equated the Chöd practitioner (Tibetan: གཅོད་པ, Wylie: chod pa) with the Indian avadhūta, or "mad saint". Avadhūtas - called nyönpa in Tibetan Buddhism - are renowned for expressing their spiritual understanding through "crazy wisdom" inexplicable to ordinary people. Chöd practitioners are a type of Mad Saint particularly respected, feared or held in awe due to their roles as denizens of the charnel ground. According to tibetologist Jérôme Édou, Chod practitioners were often associated with the role of shaman and exorcist:

The Chö[d]pa's very lifestyle on the fringe of society - dwelling in the solitude of burial grounds and haunted places, added to the mad behavior and contact with the world of darkness and mystery - was enough for credulous people to view the Chödpa in a role usually attributed to shamans and other exorcists, an assimilation which also happened to medieval European shepherds. Only someone who has visited one of Tibet's charnel fields and witnessed the offering of a corpse to the vultures may be able to understand the full impact of what the Chöd tradition refers to as places that inspire terror.

Practitioners of the Chöd ritual, Chödpa, use a kangling or human thighbone trumpet, and a Chöd drum, a hand drum similar to but larger than the ḍamaru commonly used in Tibetan ritual. In a version of the Chöd sādhanā of Jigme Lingpa from the Longchen Nyingthig, five ritual knives are employed to demarcate the maṇḍala of the offering and to affix the five wisdoms.

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>>2035166
As water merges in water, as fire merges in fire, as (the void within) a broken pot dissolves in aether, and as air merges with air, so too the brahmana and brahmani dissolve in the supreme essence by drinking wine. Mountain Born One, there is no doubt about it! - Matrikabheda Tantra, III,34-35

The Matrikabheda tantra is one of the oldest Hindutantric texts, dated to the fourth century AD.

The Matrikabheda Tantra is a brief Kaula text which, however, contains some interesting threads alluded to in only a few other tantras. For example, there are clear references to alchemy, so linking this work to Indian texts of the Raseshvaras - Lords of the Rasa or the quintessence. It also clearly sets out methods of meditation on the goddess as Kundalini at the root of the spine, alludes to sexual techniques of the Kaulas, to the pre-eminence of the guru, to Chandi, and outlines the importance of building temples, establishing tanks and the unity of the different forms of Shakti.

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>>2035171
This is Sir John Woodroffe's (Arthur Avalon) introduction to a Sanskrit edition of the Kaulavalinirnaya in Sanskrit which is now out of print and out of copyright. Because it covers many topics relating to the Kaula tradition of tantra, it merits wider availability. The text, to the best of my knowledge, is not available in an English translation.

The third Chapter speaks of the rite of Antaryaga. Unless a man does this any outward Yaga or sacrificial rite that he may do becomes fruitless. Antaryaga may be done in different ways such as Kundaliniyoga or meditation by the Sadhaka in his heart on the Ocean of Nectar in the middle of which is the Island of Gems encircled by a beach of golden sand. All over the Island are Parijata trees and in its middle is a Kalpa tree which is composed of the 50 letters of the alphabet. At the foot of this tree is the excellent Temple of Light (Jyotirmandira) decked with Gems of various kinds. It is resplendent like the rising sun and is a hundred Yojanas in extent. Its light is diffused all over the universe. Surrounded by a wall of gold it has four entrances. Inside the temple is an Altar of Gems, and over it an umbrella made of thread of gold. The Sadhaka should meditate there upon the Great Yantra resting on the altar and filled to overflowing with Nectar. Yantra here means a receptacle, containing nectar or wine. Verse 77 is identical with one quoted in Serpent Power which describes the mind of the Yogi as dissolved in the Great Void (Mahashunya). When he is able to do this, he is a king among Yogis. His inward light can then rest on the plane which is without support (Niralambapada) and he attains the highest form of Dhyana.

http://www.shivashakti.com/kaulav.htm

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>>2035178
The jiva (embodied human) is devoid of qualities. Devi, for the jiva, pleasure is delusion. There is no doubt about this. Kundalini, the form of Sun, Moon and Fire, is endowed with qualities. Matrikabheda III, 6.
This is the second chapter of the large tantrik digest Devirahasya, and deals with the bija and other mantras of a number of Devis and Shaktis. Some of these, such as Bala, Jvalamukhi and Rajni have larger sections devoted to them in the body of the text.

As the Matrikabheda Tantra points out, "names" of goddesses are really adjectives of the one goddess, and this goes for male aspects of divinity too.

While, in the original text, the letters making up the following mantras were given in code form, they are decoded in the translation below. Numbers which occur in mantras, such as Krim 3, and so forth, mean the word is to be repeated the requisite number of times.

While the following collection of written words may even be expressed as utterances, the tantrik texts and adepts are adamant that such remain mere words and letters without being infused with the mantra consciousness of the Devis they are said to represent. The same applies to the geometric form of divinity expressed as yantra. They are dead collections of lines and petals without Shakti.

http://www.shivashakti.com/deviras2.htm

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>>2035183
I remember again and again the dark primaeval Devi swayed with passion, Her beauteous face heated and moist with the sweat of amorous play, Bearing a necklace of Gunja berries, and clad with leaves - Bhuvaneshvari Stotra, quoted in Avalon's Hymns to the Goddess
Hindu tantras are discourses between Shiva and Shakti, the male and female aspects of divinity whose play creates the entire universe. The Jnanasankalini Tantra is a brief work of 107 shlokas (verses) which outlines the dynamics of this interplay.

Of particular importance in this short work is the emphasis placed on the syllable Om, made up of the three Sanskrit letters a+u+m. These represent Shiva, Shakti and their union and can also be represented by the three gunas or qualities well known as rajas, tamas and sattvas.

Other important elements of the tantrik cosmology are outlined here, including the correspondence between the macrocosm and the microcosm, the five elements of earth, air, fire, water and space, and the essential similarity between the individual spirit, the Atma, and the universal spirit, the Paramatma.

The emphasis here is on Jnana, or pure knowledge. Although the spirit is one and all- pervading, it manifests through a variety of elements (tattvas). Through ignorance, an individual soul (jiva), may take each or any of these elements to be himself or herself.

The work here translated is, then, a brief summary of the essential elements of the Hindu tantrik tradition. There is no indication in the contents of this book when it was written, but it cannot be very old.

http://www.shivashakti.com/jnana.htm

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>>2035188
Samarasa (Sanskrit Devanagari: समरास; IAST: samarāsa; synonymous with IAST: ekarāsa; Tibetan: རོ་གཅིག, Wylie: ro gcig; Tibetan: རོ་མཉམ, Wylie: ro mnyam) is literally "one-taste" "one-flavour" or "same-taste" and means equipoise in feelings, non-discriminating or the mind at rest.

Samarasa is one of four principal keywords and teachings of the Natha Tradition, the other three being 'svecchachara' , 'sama' , and 'sahaja'

In International Nath Order cite Mahendranath (1911 - 1991):

This unique word, completely absent from Vedic texts, is found again and again in Tantra, Upanishads, and all the best of non-Vedic literature. In one short chapter of the Avadhuta Gita, it occurs more than forty times. This whole Gita would be impossible to read and understand without the knowledge of this word.

The Tantrik or non-Vedic teachers used the word Samarasa in its mundane meaning to suggest higher truth. Samarasa can mean the ecstasy attained in sexual intercourse at the moment of orgasm. Using this, as they did of many other worldly things—to draw an analog between the moment of sexual bliss and the spiritual bliss of realization—men and women, it was thought, would understand absolute concepts better from the examples of relative life.

Going higher, it means the essential unity of all things—of all existence, the equipoise of equanimity, the supreme bliss of harmony, that which is aesthetically balanced, undifferentiated unity, absolute assimilation, the most perfect unification, and the highest consummation of Oneness.

To Dattatreya, it meant a stage of realization of the Absolute Truth, where there was no longer any distinction to be felt, seen or experienced between the seeker and the sought. Gorakshanath, who wrote the first texts of the Nathas, explains Samarasa as a state of absolute freedom, peace, and attainment in the realization of the Absolute Truth. He placed it on a higher level than samadhi.

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>>2035115
>>2035174
Thanks for the replies.

I was waiting for books on the basics of asian religions. Thanks, OP. You're one of the few good tripfags.

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>>2035215
I try.
Don't have a lot in terms of basics.

If you wanna give Tantra a test drive thumb through Jan Fries' Kali Kaula.

>tfw your'e still 4249 posts away from overtaking Constantine
I don't get how he did it so fast godfuckin'damn.

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>>2036260

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>>2036524

>>2036560
Nyasa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cszoxzntIwI

Bump for amazing topic.

>>2037095
There usually aren't many replies unless someone starts accusing a well known Christist denomination of cuckoldry.

Reminder that theists fail to go beyond the jhanas.

>>2037296
>theists
What a simplistic notion in the face of Tantra.

>Tsultrim's Reply

All visualizations are imagination.
All imagination is appearance/emptiness.
Without being attached to appearance/emptiness as real,
rest without fixation, without focus.

Death and no death, these are also imagined.
In the expanse of equality, there's neither death nor no death.
The same with dark and light and gods and demons.
The expanse of equality is all there is.
I have never seen a single thing that's real.

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>>2037370
>ITT: Christniggers get buttblasted by literally every single spiritual praxis outside of their narrow denomination of KJV only Protestantism so throw a [triggered] hissyfit in the thread outlining the history of a religion on a history and humanities board

>>2037386
It is not necessary to understand; it is enough to adore.
The god may be of clay: adore him; he becomes GOD.
We ignore what created us; we adore what we create. Let us create nothing but GOD!
That which causes us to create is our true father and mother; we create in our own image, which is theirs.
Let us create therefore without fear; for we can create nothing that is not GOD.
~Crowley, Liber 333, Ch 21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr0g2EgWdXI

>>2037402
why is that guy waving a dildo at a giant? kinky shit right there

>>2037402
>come into a thread you don't like to whine
>accuse others of having a sandy twat
Classic.

Chill some, smoke some of Shiva's sacred herb, and realize the futility of exoteric worship:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ_m7tgPcf4

>practice hatha yoga for a couple months
>spine feels energized
>can feel blockage in the back of the neck
What methods are there to clear a blockage? The back of my neck is aching and agitated with energy.

>>2035001
hey, I remember you
you are a pretty cool occult bloke.

>>2037425
I rarely recommend this but may do some of the popular "commercial" health based asana.

If that doesn't limber you up and it is indeed a spiritual thing, try using some mantra.

>>2037428
Thanks mate, I try.

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>>2037459
Shri Hairakhandi, Hairakhandi, Hairakhandi bol !
Ishvara sata chita ananda bol !
Shri Samba SadaShiva, Samba SadaShiva, Samba Sada
Shiva bol.

Palaka preraka jaga pati bol !
Jaya Jaya Hairakhana bihari,
Jaga kalyana hetu avatari !

Tuma hi ho mama Sadaguru deva
Alakha agochara Shiva mahadeva
Parama dayamaya hridaya tumharo
Sharana gata ko shigrah uvaro
Shri Hairakhandi . . . . . . . . . .
Kona so kashta munindra hai jaga mai
Dura no hoya daya se china mai ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM95HQ2rpV0

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>>2037459
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O6IqJAsW0g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SvBrYJVcOE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t3bHV_MSvY

>>2037436
What mantras do you recommend for unfucking my Visuddi chakra?

Ham and these >>2035057 seem mundane af.

>>2037536
Gimme a sec I'm checking some sources.

>>2037557
>>2037536
Kaulajnananirnaya has the root mantra as [ʂa], or ष.

Paratrisikavivirana led me down some really strange paths, but I'd imagine this is the best you can do at an uninitiated level:

Om Sarvapranaya Vidhmahe
Yashtihastaya Dhimahi
Thanno Vayuh Prachodayat

On the other hand, try reciting that whilst masturbating or fucking and contemplating the Platonic ideal of 'mantra' as the root of all creation.

>Disclaimer: This tripfag assumes ZERO responsibility for the potential of kundalini sickness. Use at your own risk.

>>2037653
Variant, but this should work as well, perhaps even better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDmI84rmOss

>>2037653
>>2037720
>Om Sarvapranaya Vidhmahe
>Yashtihastaya Dhimahi
>Thanno Vayuh Prachodayat
Thanks. Will try.

Hopefully I wont overdose and die.

>>2037772
You should be fine if it's just a basic recitation.

>>2037817
>if it's just a basic recitation.
lmao no. Slow vibration and intense focus. No risk, no gain.

>>2037858
Still I set you on a relatively light mantra unless you incorporate the sexual praxes, at which point it's possible to get severe nadi oscillation. The correlation in Paratrisikavivirana could have gone deeper into hidden lore. I decided to go for lowest common correlational denominator.

Try to hit >>2037720's general cadence.

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>>2037880

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>>2038018

>>2038027
How does this relate to Tantra?

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>>2038049
Most mandalas are representations not only of reality as a lamen but also are maps by which we "install" godforms for worship.

I'm fairly certain Enochian, in some senses, uses the general mandala principle for creation of the sigils and images needed for practice.

For example, this yantra is for the installation of various forms of Shakti, while.....

>>2038056
>Most mandalas are representations not only of reality as a lamen but also are maps by which we "install" godforms for worship.

I.e. chakras. Neat idea.

Where would you put the SDA? Heart/ inside the chest, or in the Skull?

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>>2038056
This is the Kalachakra yantra: >>2038018

It depicts reality with the Mountain City of Shambhala at the center, with various locations and godforms radiating outward, including the pillars of the earth, ending in an outer ring of fire protecting the enlightened cosmic being (Adi Buddha).

Pic related starts with Jerusalem at the center and radiates outwards, including the pillars of the earth, ending in the outer rings protecting the realm of Godhead.

>>2037880
>unless you incorporate the sexual praxes
What's a good starting point of learning about that?

>>2038064
>SDA
I'm probably just over-hungry and lightheaded, but huh?

>>2038079
Sigillum Dei Æmeth.

>>2038074
That depends; what's the extent of your base knowledge? Do you plan on full devotion? Do you have a guru available and if not are you prepared to self initiate? Are you interested in Western praxes as well or just Tantra?

>>2038088
Shit, I'm a retard.

I imagine it could be used in a number of stations in a number of contexts. You could make it the foundation at Muladhara with all radiating out from the center, or make it the seat of this or that power.

I'd be inclined to put it toward the chest due to succession and expansions of the letters of YHVH, but again I imagine it depends on your exact intent. If you were working the Heptameron exclusively I'd put it in the head.

from an anthopological persepctive this is all very intersting, but from a buddhist perspective it's total bullshit. this has nothing to do with the dharma and you should remember that if you are seeking something from it.

>>2038089
>what's the extent of your base knowledge?
I've only read HYP, Yoga Sutras and Gheranda Samhita so far. Tantra is a mostly new topic for me.

>Do you plan on full devotion?
I'm fully devoted to practicing Yoga and eventually raising my Kundalini, not so sure about tantra in general.

I fucked around with the Goetia in the past without any real results. Maybe if I start seeing spirits and auras one day I'll try again.

>>2038144
Uh, yes. This is part of people's dharma. The hell are you talking about?

>>2038144
>buddhist perspective it's total bullshit
Upasika, should probably go back to dropping coins in your Bhikkhu's coffer.

I'm sure that'll seal your place on the Little Boat.

>>2038164
Start with Kiss of the Yogini.

The AMOoKoS manual will give you a light nonsexual training method that melds Western and broad tantric materials into a short initiatory system based on Natha teachings.

If you're going the Hindi route after that start going through the texts, maybe start with Kaulajnananirnaya or Kularnava Tantra.

>>2038189
Man if things were like that, I'd be rich.

WHY AM I NOT RICH?

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>>2038231
>tfw

>>2038185

>esoteric bullshit helps anybody

you've been seduced by illusion

>>2038254
See
>>2037359

>>2038264
>Chinkoneese Bread Magick
Just initiate my shit up, famalam.

>>2038202
I'll get to it then. Thanks for the advice.

Bump for actual fuckin' history and actual fuckin' religion.

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>>2038692

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>>2038967
Why?
Care to articulate your dissent? Preferably through academic or source materials?

I tried so present as neutral as possible of a painting of Tantra.

>>2039000
>Care to articulate your dissent?
He's probably just being a dick. It was a pretty interesting read overall to someone who previously knew nothing about tantra.

go back to /fringe/ wacko

>>2039193
>93
Glad I was able to impart some info to a lay researcher.

>>2039242
What did he mean by this?

>>2039246
I've made perhaps 50 total posts to /fringe/ over the last like three or four years because they're uneducated ahistorical folks who are already CERTAIN they have all the answers.

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Bump.

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Tachikawa-ryu (立川流?) is a Japanese school of Mikkyō (esotericism) of Shingon Buddhism founded in 1114 by the monk Ninkan (仁寛) (1057-1123) in an attempt to create a Japanese tradition corresponding to Indian tantra (Sanskrit Vāmācāra).

The primary literature for all schools of orthodox Shingonshu are the Mahavairocana Tantra, the Vajrasekhara Sutra, the Adhyardhaśatikā Prajñāpāramitā Sutra (Rishu-kyō), and the Susiddhikāra Sūtra (Soshitsuji-kyō 蘇悉地経). These are the four principle texts of Esoteric Buddhism. They are all Tantras, literally "treatise", "exposition".

These texts played a vital role in Tachikawa-ryu as well, obviously. But according to the author and Tachikawa-ryu historian, John Stevens as well as James Sanford, another, and perhaps the most important text to the ryūha (流派), was the Sutra of Secret Bliss (ca. 1100), the full title of which is Sutra Proclaiming the Secret Method Enabling a Man and a Woman to Experience the Bliss of Buddhahood in this Very Body. This sutra contains the school's general teachings concerning sexuality and its role in reaching enlightenment. It was Rishu-kyō (The Sino-Japanese Tantric Prajñapāramitā in 150 Verses (Amoghavajra's Version) ).

Among the many Rituals and Rites practiced by Tachikawa-ryu was the famous Skull Ritual. Rituals involving the use of human or animal skulls are not uncommon. The exact origins of the Tachikawa-ryu Skull Ritual are unknown, but it appears from historical texts to be similar in Ritual to Anuttarayoga tantras of Indo-Tibetan Vajrayana-tantra, in particular of particularly Hevajra Tantra and Candamaharosana Tantra. However, without further evidence no other conclusion as to its origin can be made.

>>2039564
There are, in fact, ten different types of skull that may be used:

1 the skull of a wise man
2 the skull of an ascetic
3 the skull of a king
4 the skull a shogun
5 the skull of a great minister
6 the skull of an elder
7 the skull of a father
8 the skull of a mother
9 a "Thousand Cranium" skull
10 a "Dharmadhātu" (entire material universal) skull.

The first eight are clear enough. The "Thousand Cranium" skull is made by grinding the tops of a thousand men’s skulls into flour and molding the bone-paste into a honzon. For the "Dharmadhātu" skull, one must go to a cemetery on the chōyō (an onmyodo festival held on the 9th day of the 9th month. Since the number 9 is the perfect maximum yang/yō in Chinese divination it is seen as a particularly powerful and auspicious day. See: kuji-in), collects a large number of skulls, chants Dākini represent an especially crucial component of the Skull Ritual) incantations/prayers, and prays over the skulls. Finally, he takes the one, that when placed at the bottom of pile of skulls repeatedly rises to the top of the pile; or else he goes out on a frosty morning and selects the one that on which no frost has formed. Or, best of all, he selects a skull that is completely free of suture lines.

>>2039568
Whatever type he chooses can be made into a Honzon (本尊) (object of worship). For any of the ten types of skull there are three methods of construction possible. These are "the whole head", "the small head", and "the moon-shaped head". For "the whole head", the officiant uses the original skull. To this he adds a chin, puts in a tongue and teeth, and covers the bone with a hard lacquer so that it looks just like the unblemished flesh of a living person. When the skull has been completely formed, he places it in a box. Then he must have sexual intercourse with the skull and with a beautiful and willing woman, and must repeatedly wipe the liquid product (the mixture of male and female seminal and vaginal secretions) of this act on the skull until it reaches 120 layers. Each night at midnight he must burn "Spirit returning" incense (frankincense/hangon-kō), pass the smoke through the eye holes of the skull, and chant a "spirit returning" mantra fully and perfectly one thousand times.

After carrying out the procedure above for a number of days, the officiant places the appropriate charms and secret talismans (sōō motsu) into the skull. Once this procedure has been meticulously completed, he covers the skull with three layers of gold and silver leaf. Over these layers, the mandala must be inscribed, and then more gold and silver leafe applied, then another mandala applied over that, just as before. Thus the layers of gold and silver foil and sacred writings are built up – the outer layers are five and six, then in the center thirteen layers, all over the base of 120 layers of the red and white elixir (male and female sexual secretions). (Presumably this will equal the thickness of muscle and flesh of a real person) The ink of the mandlas should also be the twin fluids of intercourse.

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>>2039575
Cinnabar (mercury sulfide) is rubbed into the tongue and lips, the teeth are set in silver leaf, and the eyes are painted in comely fashion, or, precious gems (jade, mother of pearl, or cornelian) can be used for the eyes. Them face is painted white and rouge patted in to create the appearance of a beautiful woman or boy. The image must look prosperous and have a face that smiles without the slightest hint of reproach.

During the entire process the sacred skull is to be kept on an altar in a place where no one ever goes, and various delicacies, beautiful flowers, and fine wines are to be offered to it. No one must go there (to the skull altar) but the craftsman, the adept, and the woman. There (at the skull altar) they must happily and willingly and ceaselessly disport themselves as if celebrating the first three days of the New Year. Each act and word must be wholly free of any sign of care.

Once the Honzon is finished, it is installed on the altar. Offerings of rare things are made daily; spirit-returning incense is burned; and the various observations are carried out at the hours of the Rat, the Ox, and the Tiger (midnight to dawn). With the arrival of the Hour of the Hare (dawn), the Honzon is placed in a bag made of seven layers of brocade. Once this bag has been closed, it is not easy to reopen. Every night the bag is held close to the adept’s body to keep it (the skull) warm; during the day it is placed on the altar, where delicacies (fowl, fish, meats, blood, rice, and so on) must be gathered and offered for its nourishment.

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>>2039584
It appears from the historical record that Tachikawa-ryu was very widely accepted and practiced and by the middle of the 13th century during the Nanboku-chō period had become a major contender with the orthodox branch of Shingon. This marks what is considered the second period of the school. Beginning in the 13th century the orthodox branch of Shingon at Koyasan began a smear campaign against Tachikawa-ryu. This second period lasted until about 1500AD. The discrimination and attack by the orthodox branch at Koyasan reached its climax in about 1470AD.

From 1470-1500 marks the beginning of the third period, of the school. By this time the orthodox branch of Shingon had managed to formally denounce and excommunicate most teachings and practitioners of Tachikawa-ryu from its ranks. However, it was still very popular with the general populace. Tachikawa-ryu works were still published in works such as Sangi Isshin-ki (The Three Worlds Single Heart), Fudō-son Gushō (Humble Notes on the Immovable Lord), and Konkō-shō (Compendium of the Primal Cavity). Tachikawa-ryu ideas and influences also appeared in cultic practices with Dual Ganesha (双身歓喜天, Sōshin Kangiten) and Aizen Myō-Ō (Ragaraja), and in the other main orthodox school of mikkyo Tendai, in their extinct Genshi Kimyōdan cult. And also in the teachings and ideologies of Jodoshinshu (Pure Land Faith), especially the Himitsu Nembutsu (Secret Mystery of Mindfulness of Amida Buddha) developed by Kakuban and Dōhan. (Sanford 1991)

For all practical purposes Tachikawa-ryu is extinct. It was outlawed in the 13th century by the Japanese authorities, and almost all of its writings were either burned, or sealed away at Koya-san and related monasteries. However, there have been claims that the school continued covertly until at least 1689, many believe that it is still active today.

>>2039588
>>2039584
>>2039575
>>2039568
>>2039564
Bump for Japanese skull tantra.

>>2035155
Ily, Frater K. Specially for those YT links.

Friendly bump.

>>2040434
Second.

I'm surprised no one seems interested... Semesters are finishing up so maybe that's why. Something like this should definitely be reposted over the holidays. Interesting read as always; thanks m8.

>>2040624
>Semesters are finishing up so maybe that's why.
I still have 25 pgs due and I found the time to compile this shit.

>>2040434
Thanks mate. There's a lady who does a rundown of Chod in its entirety in English but I hate her oration.

Some examples of suppression by insight:

• Perception of permanence (niccasaññā) is displaced by the perception of impermanence (aniccasaññā).
• Perception of pleasure (sukhasaññā) is displaced by the perception of suffering (dukkhasaññā).
• Perception of self (attāsaññā) is displaced by the perception of not-self (anattāsaññā).
• Delight (nandi) is displaced by knowledge of disenchantment (nibbidā).
• Greed (rāga) is displaced by knowledge of dispassion (virāga).
• Origination (samudaya) is displaced by knowledge of cessation (nirodha).
• Appropriation (ādāna) is displaced by knowledge of relinquishment (paṭinissagga).
• Perception of compactness (ghanasaññā) is displaced by knowledge of destruction (khaya).
• Accumulation (āyūhana) is displaced by knowledge of disappearance (vaya).
• Perception of everlastingness (dhuvasaññā) is displaced by knowledge of transience (vipariṇāma).
• Signs (nimitta) are displaced by knowledge of the signless (animitta).
• Desire (paṇidhi) is displaced by knowledge of the desireless (appaṇihita).
• Voluntary adhesion (abhinivesa) is displaced by knowledge of emptiness (suññatā).
• Voluntary adhesion due to grasping at an essence (sārādānābhinivesa) is displaced by insight into dhammas at the level of higher understanding (adhipaññādhammavipassanā).
• Voluntary adhesion due to delusion (sammohābhinivesa) is displaced by knowledge and vision according to reality (yathābhūtañāṇadassana).
• Voluntary adhesion due to reliance [on formations] (ālayābhinivesa) is displaced by knowledge of the peril [in formations] (ādīnava).
• Non-reflection (appaṭisaṅkha) is displaced by reflection (paṭisaṅkha).
• Voluntary adhesion due to the fetters (saṃyogābhinivesa) is displaced by knowledge of turning away (vivaṭṭa).

Ape are you Śaivist or not? I rember abouth two weeks ago you made a thread about starting catholic gnosticism. Or are they not mutually exclusive?

>>2041135
Shiva is Parameshvara is God the Father.
Kali is Ishvara is our Sacred Mother the Holy Spirit
The Guru is the Aspirant is the Son of their Union.

The Eucharists are identical.

>>2041269
Thank you, this is interesting perspective to consider. I see you have a 'philosophia perenis' kind of attitude towards spiritual matters.

>>2041351
>philosophia perenis
Not at ALL.
Practices should be compartmentalized. Those that marginally agree can be run in parallel with one another.

I have no qualm calling myself a Thelemite, a Saivist, a Gnostic, and a traditional witch.

>>2041452
>Practices should be compartmentalized. Those that marginally agree can be run in parallel with one another.

Yes, but from what I understand perennial philosophy is exacly that, it refers to commonalities in thought, not necessarily in practise.

>The Eucharists are identical.

This part intrigued me. How sow? Can you elaborate on that?

>>2041519
>commonalities in thought
The underlying implication is a universality of commonality.

This is not the case.

This largely only flies because both Gnosticism and Uttara Kaula Trika are triadic, nondual, and use sexual mysticism.

>How sow? Can you elaborate on that?
At least one Gnostic group (we don't know who, maybe multiple) was using comingled sexual fluids as a part of their Eucharist. Among various tantriks this substance is known as Samarasa or Paraprasada.

>>2041541
Ah, the sperma-gnostics, now I get it.
And those groups were propably borborites, ophidians and sethians. Not to count later semi-gnostic хлыcты - the Hlysty

>>2041568
My money's on the Barbeloites and the Ophites. Sethians are probably a gamble for that *particular* quirk, but I'm fairly sure they practiced the Bridal Chamber ritual along with the Valentinians.

I have never seen anyone on 4chan who knows their shit like you do. Major props and thanks for the learns

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>ophidians
>ophites
what the fuck I was thinking.
Of course it ophites, not ophidians, I made a stupid mistake. I was thinking ὄφις and automatically typed ophidians as I thought its their english name. Transitioning between languages isn't easy.

>>2041602
>>2035233
>I try.

>>2041607
Well the Ophites are an Ophidian cult, so it's not like you're wrong, exactly, and I knew what you meant.

>>2041646
>Does it mean tibetan buddhism at least is partly Left Hand path?
Absolutely.

Left-handed and right-handed modes of practice may be evident in both orthodox and heterodox schools of Indian religions such as Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism

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>>2041618
Ok. But returning to the main subject.
So tantra is śaivic tradition, and in turn some aspects of vajrayana are of the same origins via influence. Does it mean tibetan buddhism at least is partly Left Hand path?

>>2041667
see
>>2041664
>>2035057
>Left-handed and right-handed modes of practice may be evident in both orthodox and heterodox schools of Indian religions such as Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism and is a matter of taste, culture, proclivity, initiation, sadhana and dharmic "lineage" (parampara).

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>>2041667
(also, 16 armed Hevajra is best Hevajra)
((Black Mahakala's pretty dank too))

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>>2041664
>Jainism - Left Hand Path
Ow wow, I'd never thoght of that. But it maybe just shows my ignorance of Indiand religions

>>2041686
Jain tantra is relatively tame and mostly confined to esoteric codices on like building protocol and symbol correlations. They only dabble on the edge instead of going full blown transgressive.

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>>2041704
>>2041686
>A lay practitioner of the Jain religion offers a coconut while standing above a Jain Tantric diagram made of colored powder.
Many of the Jain Tantric texts remain unpublished and its rituals undocumented

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>>2041704
>[...]instead of going full blown transgressive.
Unlike those edgelords

>>2041713
>you will never sip freshly harvested rotting cerebrospinal fluid while your drunken guru rambles incoherent like a mystic Hunter Thompson at a human skull
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OjYrmQKPzU

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>>2041729
The kīla (Sanskrit Devanagari: कील; IAST: kīla; Tibetan: ཕུར་བ, Wylie: phur ba, pronunciation between pur-ba and pur-pu) is a three-sided peg, stake, knife, or nail-like ritual implement traditionally associated with Indo-Tibetan Buddhism, Bön, and Indian Vedic traditions. The kīla is associated with the meditational deity (Sanskrit: ishtadevata, Tibetan yidam) Vajrakīla (वज्रकील) or Vajrakīlaya (Tibetan Dorje Phurba) according to the means for attainment Mahayoga class. Vajrakilaya is the Buddha's activity natural expression representation.

The phurba (Tibetan: ཕུར་བ, Sanskrit: kīla) is a ritual dagger used by a tantric practitioner to release an evil spirit from its suffering and guide it to a better rebirth. Such a spirit (ghost) is a being which lingers in confusion between different realms. By plunging the dagger into it, it is thrown out of its confusion and gets the chance to be reborn, probably as a lower kind than human.

>>2035001
This was great, thank you. I hope you will consider doing some more posts like this in the future.

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>>2035029
Finally a reason to post this.

>>2041541
>At least one Gnostic group (we don't know who, maybe multiple) was using comingled sexual fluids as a part of their Eucharist
Do you have this from a source which isn't the church trying to paint an unflattering picture of them?

>>2041713
what is happening with that persons body

Why tantra instead of other (more orthodox) practices?

>>2042249
He's rolling his genitals with a sword.

>>2042234
What's less known is that even the Gnostics were accusing each other of practicing this sort of thing: Pistis Sophia curses, even into the outer darkness, in the name of Christ, those who eat of a lentil dish made with semen and menstrual blood. Two Egyptian testimonies appear in the 3-4th C. that continue this motif, probably in the vein of Phibionite festive meals. The Book of Jesu condemns similar practices. Oddly, though someone then in turn accuses the Barbeloites (who consider the text Pistis Sophia as a core component of their faith, the one that condemns sexual practices) of “obscene rites.

Source: Rudolph's Gnosis: The Nature and History of Gnosticism....pg....245 (maybe a touch before) through the end of the chapterish.

>>2042154
Why wouldn't I?

>>2042195
Thanks, I've got a book on Kapalikas and Kalamukhas in the Beginner's section of the Eastern folder.

>>2042681
1) It's harder to trace through history.
2) Why anything? Why Jeebuz instead of DA J00Z? Why Mohammad instead of Zoroaster? Why boipucci instead of girlcock? Why Nietzsche instead of Stirner? Why Stirner instead of Bataille?

Though to actually answer your question, instead of just paying lip service to nondualism like mainstream Advaita Vedanta, the Uttara Kaula Trika actually follows through.

>>2042154
If you're still here, what are you most interested in?

What exactly is so special about skulls? Also, why do Aghoris eat feces? That goes too fucking far for my taste.

>>2042765
>What exactly is so special about skulls?


Daksha himself was decapitated by Virbhadra and Bhadrakali, Kali, Katyayani, Chamundai, Ishaani, Mundamardini, Bhadra, Vaishnavi and Twarita fell upon Daksha and Bhrigu's demon armies, Gods, saints, priests and others. After the night of horror, Shiva, the all-forgiving, restored all those who were slain to life and granted them his blessings. Even the abusive and culpable Daksha was restored both his life and his kingship. His severed head was substituted for that of a goat. Having learned his lesson, Daksha spent his remaining years as a devotee of Shiva. Out of grief and sorrow, Shiva carried Sati's body reminiscing their moments as a couple, and roamed around the universe with it. Vishnu had cut her body into 52 body parts using his Sudarshana Chakra which fell on Earth to become holy spots to pray to the Goddess named Shakti Peeths, to complete this massively long task, Lord Shiva took the form of Bhairav.

Hindu deities that may be depicted with the kapala include Durga, Kālī and Shiva, especially in his Bhairava form. Even Ganesha, when adopted into Tibetan Buddhism as Maharakta Ganapati, is shown with a kapala filled with blood.

Some of the Hindu deities worshiped via Kapala are:

a) Kālī, pictured in the most common four armed iconographic image shows each hand carrying variously a sword, a trishula (trident), a severed head and a bowl or skullcup (kapala) catching the blood of the severed head.

b) The Chamunda, a form of Durga, seen in Halebidu temple of Hoysala architecture, in black or red colour, is described as wearing a garland of severed heads or skulls (Mundamala). She is described as having four, eight, ten or twelve arms, holding a Damaru (drum), trishula (trident), sword, a snake (nāga), skull-mace (khatvanga), thunderbolt (vajra), a severed head and panapatra (drinking vessel, wine cup) or skullcup (kapala), filled with blood.

Hey Thoth, do you know of any place to buy occultism stuff online that ships internationally?

>>2042799
What do you want and where do you live?

My basic answer is ebay, and self construction. If you want human remains you need to check local law. I'm in a jurisdiction where it's fine to own bones, hence having like a quarter of a skeleton in the ritual room.

>>2042804
No, nothing like that. Ebay does seem like a good idea.

>>2042835
Just don't get ripped off. Everything here: >>2039468, is an ebay purchase. Skull trishul from Tibet with vajra on other end. Fuckload of bone beads (snake vertebra, cow, yak, some rabbit vertebra I found) as well as precious stone beads.

>>2043079
^This.

Don't have the time to read all of this right now but thanks in advance for when I do. You're from /x/ right?

>>2042709
No I meant as opposed to orthodox practices in those same traditions. Some of the central components to tantric practices seem antithetical to the non-tantric traditions. Not only do they seem antithetical to the orthodox practices, but they seem irreconcilable. This may be more pronounced with tantric buddhism but even with tantric hinduism/yoga.

>>2043635
Yup.

>Not only do they seem antithetical to the orthodox practices, but they seem irreconcilable. This may be more pronounced with tantric buddhism but even with tantric hinduism/yoga.
Why are they? If you buy the internal explanation then the oral tradition for the tantric text type are Agamic and non-Puranic sources as old as the Vedas and outside their sphere of liturgical and ethical influence.

This is slightly more pronounced in the purely Shakti related materials. Of course Dr. White argues against this but he appears to be in the minority.

>>2043688
>tantra was created by 80 iq poonigger locals
Never change ape

>>2043688
Tantra and the vedas are the same age? What the fuck. But then again if I was a tantric writer, I'd want to make some shit like that up because it would make me look more legitimate.

I've noticed that same sort of thing in tantric buddhism. Yeah the buddha said this stuff but um...how bout you break a great number of the precepts instead? Trust me, the buddha came to me in a dream and he turned the wheel of dharma a third time, and he told me to eat shit and whatnot. Trust me, guy, everything I just told you is kosher because some other tantric writer 100 years before me wrote that tantra has been around as long as the vedas. But forget about all that earlier stuff that you learned, because it's pleb-tier. Why meditate when you could cum in that sweet boipucci instead? Insight meditation? You mean co-mingled sexual fluids. Sila? What are you, retarded? Just visualize a sexy deity while rubbing one out, it's pretty much the same thing.

>>2043705
?
We know that Kali was a mountain goddess. We know that the Indus valley was practicing yoga.

What we don't know is where tantra came from, if it was embedded or imported.

>>2043751
see
>>2035012
>>2035017
>>2035093
>Various classes of Vajrayana literature developed as a result of royal courts sponsoring both Buddhism and Saivism. The Mañjusrimulakalpa, which later came to be classified under Kriyatantra, states that mantras taught in the Shaiva, Garuda and Vaishnava tantras will be effective if applied by Buddhists since they were all taught originally by Manjushri. The Guhyasiddhi of Padmavajra, a work associated with the Guhyasamaja tradition, prescribes acting as a Shaiva guru and initiating members into Saiva Siddhanta scriptures and mandalas. The Samvara tantra texts adopted the pitha list from the Shaiva text Tantrasadbhava, introducing a copying error where a deity was mistaken for a place.

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>>2043763
Actually if you want witchcraft you're looking for Saradatilaka Tantram.

Also,
>assblasted christfag, etc.

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>>2043832

>>2043768
Does that mean that tantrism is a caveman-tier remnant from pre-vedic times? What makes it a superior set of practices compared to the stuff that came after it?

>>2043934
>caveman-tier
>Indus
I think you're on the wrong board friendo.

Besides, I repeat, *we don't know where it came from*.

>stuff that came after it?
Maybe you should reread the thread too, because I cover a LOT of schools developed in recent times.

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>>2043980
No, I'm an initiate of the OTO and A.'.A.'., get your conspiracies straight.

>>2042688
>Why wouldn't I?
I don't know, I don't know why you've done this much
>>2042758
Greek Mystery schools, any kind of formal mapping of progress with concentration/contemplation practices, jewish meditation traditions, practices and the theories that rose from them. The theory, practice, history and historical importance of smaller abrahamic religions like the yezidi, mandeans and druze. The role of stars in ancient religious thought. Sacred mathematics/geometry. Phenomenology or neuroscience of religious experience, especially comparative and discussing similarities and differences with different traditions and practices, especially if it incorporates traditional maps. Epistemology of religious experiences and spirit contact.

Is there anything i can do for you?

>>2044348
>>2042758
My ideal thread would be more specific and detailed, less of a broad overview, fwiw. It's much easier to find a broad overview on the internet.

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>>2042758
What is the youngest age someone can learn tantra?

>>2044348
Yeah I can do most of that.

>>2044353
Yeah, let's not listen to actual scholars.

>>2044362
Noted.

>>2044402
The age of consent.

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>>2044476
Who's consent?

>>2044484
Of the person seeking initiation, obviously.

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>>2044499
Then the giver has no choice, pedo defender.

>>2044511
The guru can refuse anyone he pleases.
But the key is the willed consent of the aspirant.

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>>2044515
(((Aspirants))) are under the influence of their (((gurus))), pedo defender.

>>2044524
/pol/ pls go.

Friendly bump. [2]

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>>2044543

Back to the top.

>>2045725
>>2044348
The easy ones to make would be Hebrew mysticism, Mandaeans & Yazids, asterism, and phenomenology of mystical experience, though that would border on /sci/ territory unless I rooted things in cog psy which I despise as a discipline.

Epistemology would be harder to track without doing large copy/pastes from the relevant philosophers.

How valid is the theory that Jesus traveled to India, became a mahasiddha and came back forming a mystery school?

>>2046062
Really weak, imho. It may have been spread by the Assyrian-Indic church as a conversion tactic. I see no reason to think it more than rumor or myth.

>>2046067
>>2046062
Actually looks like Muslim propaganda. There's no record of the tomb-shrine in Kashmir existing before like 1650 or 1700. First written account appears in 1747.

>>2046111
>>2046067
(All this said, David Chaim Smith notes a parity between the concepts of "sahaja" and "ain").

What would be the best order of reading the most important tantras? I've read stuff like Hevajra but I don't know where to go from there.

>>2046722
>best order of reading the most important tantras?
Shit if you've read Hevajra you're pretty much at the peak expression of Vajrayana.

My route, for Saivism, would be:
>Kaluajnananirnaya
>Kularnava Tantra
>Matrikabheda Tantra
>Spandakarika
>Ananda Lahare
>Tantrasara
>Vijanabhiarava
>Paratrisikavivrana
>Tantraloka

And you should probably toss some of the Shakti texts for context.

>>2046749
Shit eh? I wasn't too impressed with Hevajra 2BQH with you famalam. Maybe I was too hasty with it. Then again I am an uninitiated pleb. I was going to read Tantrasara next but I guess I will push it back. Thanks for the recommendations. I am indeed interested in Saivism, so this will be good. Question: are there any vaishnava tantras or are they orthodox cucks?

>>2046776
Vaishnav tantriks are cucked by their orthodoxy, even the nondualist adherents will tell you that there's a division between purity and impurity.

The Tantra texts of the Vaishnava tradition are the Pancharatra, and typically called the Agamas in the Shaiva traditions. The term "Tantra" in Hindu genre of literature is usually used specifically to refer to Shakta Agamas. The Agamas literature is voluminous, and includes 28 Shaiva Agamas, 77 Shakta Agamas (also called Tantras), and 108 Vaishnava Agamas (also called Pancharatra Samhitas), and numerous Upa-Agamas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancharatra

>>2046826
Interesting.

http://indiafacts.org/surya-namaskara-ancient-practice-modern-invention-controversy-textual-evidence/

I hope he's right, it'll allow me to counter the smug contempt of people who read something online once towards people who go to expensive exercise classes

>>2047239
http://www.yogavidhi.org/blog/the-tantric-origins-of-chandra-namaskra9/21/2016

>>2047239
>>2047542

Good articles, though I'd also posit that the popularity it sees today is, in fact, largely due to a synchretizing with, rather than arising from, colonial notions of gymnastic training.

That's how it was billed, at least, in the early push for this stuff from both sides. It's undeniable the practice is ancient and devotional. It's also undeniable it was repackaged for latte sipping soccer moms to get exercise.

Cultural exchange is a two way street.

What a piece of shit thread

>>2047644
Care to explain why?

>>2047638
>It's also undeniable it was repackaged for latte sipping soccer moms to get exercise.
Fucking hippy new age dipshits and dumbass housewives are the reason why the west will never have an occult resurgence.

>>2047692
If we had a hope of it, then Satanic Panic pt 2: Performance Art Boogaloo is certainly going to kill it.

I mean, look at some of the replies ITT.

The good shit has always rested just outside of the sphere of "proper culture", and sorting those who can hack the praxes from looky-loos is a self-determining process.

Frankly I prefer that half the ritual mantras for Para Puja are hidden behind, at minimum, a veil of general ignorance if not of lineage itself. Those interested in simulating Para Puja will be clever enough to reconstruct mantras and protocol (or be initiated by a Godform itself) from available material if you're not near a guru.

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>>2047722
So do you "hack the praxes" of the "good shit" or are you just a "looky-loo?"

>>2047778
>how do you hack it
By doing. My library has copies of Chod as well as a basic Kali Tantra to acclimate aspirants to the basic format of tantric worship.

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>>2047803
How many chickens have you done it with?

>>2047830
Exactly zero.

If you're just here to make wild #pizzagate accusations against people whose religion you don't like instead of contributing, I recommend starting your own thread for it, please and thanks.

>>2047722
>Frankly I prefer that half the ritual mantras for Para Puja are hidden behind
You do realize this is how knowledge dies, right? Selfish, dumbass gurus hide mantras, don't pass them on and humanity at large gets fucked up the asshole.

There's no reason to hide this information in the 21st century. No one is going to burn you on a stake.

>>2047879
>You do realize this is how knowledge dies, right?
If that's the case why have I been able to find just about ever relevant mantra for the single trident mode of worship online?

Combine this with Raktadevi's desire to initiate lone aspirants and I don't see much of a problem, especially given that there are a number of organizations that feed aspirants into the lineage.

>There's no reason to hide it.
Those who want it bad enough WILL find it.

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>>2047846
>Exactly zero.

Found the looky-loo.

Maybe when you grow up you'll realize how seriously some people believe in the garbage you play with.

>>2047897
>Those who want it bad enough WILL find it.
lmao then burn all the occult books in general. Someone who wants it bad enough WILL recreate it.

>why have I been able to find just about ever relevant mantra
Are you denying that a fuckton of knowledge was lost over the years? This isn't just about Tantra. Every spiritual tradition suffers from dickheads who think writing down teachings is evil.

>>2047907
Please, pretty fucking please, fuck off.

You think I haven't spent time with the O9A? I have. You think I haven't made living sacrifices? I have. You think I haven't been researching these as a participatory initiate for over a decade? I have.

I really don't need a guy who never read or practiced the materials I'm sourcing telling me I'm doing it wrong because his pizza conspiracy subreddit knows better.

>lmao then burn all the occult books in general
?
I present them for people to forge their own paths.

>Are you denying that a fuckton of knowledge was lost over the years?
Depends, which knowledge and when?

>This isn't just about Tantra. Every spiritual tradition suffers from dickheads who think writing down teachings is evil.
Which is why I post unpublished Crowley initiations for all to read.

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>>2035001
So what have you actually done with tantra, thelema, secret gnostic teachings, etc? What do you have to prove that you havent been memorizing something as trivial as the names and attack stats of pokemon?

>>2047938
I have nothing to prove because as a phenomenologist of religious experience I take no concrete position on psychological models v. spiritual models.

In terms of benefits I'd reference you to Levinas' Totality and Infinity coupled with any number of studies on the physical and psychological benefits of various yogic practices, be them in terms of cognitive stillness or increasing lung capacity or the information retention potential of arts of memory as implied in correlational and contemplative schemes across mystical schools.

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>>2047959
K, thanks for the answer.

>>2047961
You're very welcome, anything else I can help with?

>>2047968
hmmm, I dont think so
unless you have experience with muscimol from amanita mushrooms (muscaria, pantheria, etc.)

>>2047970
>muscimols
Personally, no.

Back in my wilder days I watched a former best friend and speed freak snort crushed datura seed with a few absurdly large handfuls of amanitas, leading to him walking out of a moving vehicle (abt 25 mph) because he saw "the yellow brick road".

He rolled a lot and get some dank road rash but he was fine. Shocked he didn't end up with renal failure.

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>>2047928
How much longer until you're bragging about how many chickens you've (((initiated)))?

Do you think the train you're riding has brakes?

>>2048011
At this rate I won't be initiating anyone.

Nobody I know irl appears to have the discipline to complete requirements thereto in one school, or even the knowledge that the other exists.

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>>2048024
>>2047907

>>2048041
?
Are you actually asserting that I should initiate the unqualified or the uninterested into a serious devotional discipline?

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>>2048049
I'm asserting that you ought to wise up and think about who you're aligning yourself with.

>>2048095
This is you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCywGhHQMEw

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>>2048128
Exposing fruitless deeds of darkness is something to which we are all called.

>>2048162
So what exactly will it take for you to fuck off already?

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>>2048167
You to renounce and repent of witchcraft.

christcuck holocaust when? soon, hopefully. american evangelicals and prautistants should be denied internet access.

>>2048210
Fat chance, bud.

>>2048263
>you will never personally put them into FEMA reeducation camps
Feels bad man.

>>2048210
fucking hell, christians can be so deluded sometimes
you wouldn't even fit in that armor, boy. go roleplay the crusades somewhere else

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>>2048267
Then I will continue to remind you of the cost.

>>2048297
I sincerely repent of my sins and ask that The Lord God Jesus Christ wash away my impurities with the blood of his sacrifice and repent of all idolatry.

Now, who wants to perform the Star Sapphire with me?

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>>2048313
That's a start but the next step will be to get your heart to follow your tongue.

May God give us all patience during this process.

>>2048345
There is no place in my heart for the "Salvation" of the Nazarene.

There, that's blasphemy against he Holy Spirit. There's no going back. You can kindly fuck off now.

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>>2035001
hey, Ape of Thoth

do you have anything on Western African and other Sub Saharan African occult practices?

I just found out about Ifá and its divination system, and it's gotten me really interested in African religions.

I'm mostly doing this for the worldbuilding general on /tg/

>>2048366
But Ape, the holy spirit is the HGA. No need to blashpheme it.

>>2048677
>do you have anything on Western African and other Sub Saharan African occult practices?
Afro-Carib folder has a text on purely African methods of divination. Other than that I should dredge the anth journals for something more than that.

>>2048677
>I just found out about Ifá and its divination system, and it's gotten me really interested in African religions.
I literally have that book. "African Divination Systems: Ways of Knowing". Did an undergrad paper on it. Warning: It's in HTML.

>/tg/ worldbuilding
And they call ME the LARPer.

Best of luck tho, always wanted to play Aria: Canticle of the Monomyth. Can't find anyone else autistic enough to keep 30 page culture record sheets.

>>2048696
Hush you.
:^)

>>2048706
>tfw ape was a christian the whole time
i dont want to feel these feels anymore

>>2048698
hey, im autistic enough to keep 30 page culture record sheets :^)

>>2048725
I reduced it to one, or three, depending on how you actually wanna design the thing, in my fudge rewrite; the Aria record sheets for culture have been purged from the 'net, and maybe reality, for the last like eight years.

>>2047907
cool pic

>>2048764
If the dude who posted it should go back to /pol/ you should go back to /tv/.

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>>2048770
I don't get your insinuations.

how do I stop caring about sex?

>>2049056
I think you're in the wrong thread, mate.

Mornin' bump.

POO

>>2050414
Erudite and compelling post, my friend.

Why is buddhism obsessed with compassion? It seems like such a gay, feel good load of nonsense, no different than hippy fags in the 60's.

>>2050813
Nice troll, however compassion is most central to Mahayana Buddhism, which is a non-canonical meme sect of Buddhism.

>>2052062
And where would you place the Diamond Path?

>>2035049

>>2052641
?

>>2052654
I'm sure that'll work about just as well as the other dozens who've prayed for me in the last like sixteen plus years.

>>2052631
Equal or marginally higher than the ">lesser vehicle"

>>2052677
Interesting; how do you reconcile Vajrayana's origins in Mantrayana and Mahayana before it? Fresh Gnosis from some other input (saivism or the vajra founders' own force of will)? The taking of Mahayana to its logical conclusion and further? Assertion of more historical distinction between Mantrayana and Mahayana, making the Diamond Path a full blown third subsect?

>>2052692
Pretty much all three things you said.

>>2052727
Just curious. I rarely see those who prefer Hinyana have anything nice to say about Vajrayana.

Do you have any commentaries by Catholic Priest, Monks, or Bishops on buddhism and other near-east/east/east asian religious practices like this? I am currently reading the Catechism and the Tao Te Ching, so this thread interest me.

>>2052847
Not at all. I can't even find good histories on those Jesuit missions that operated between 1626 and the 1745 expulsion.

>>2052853
Not even anything after the fact?

>>2052858
(Alternatively, how about buddhist/other mystic religious commentaries on Catholic practices)

>>2052858
Nope.

>>2052861
Dude, quit being a fag. And that's coming from a dude who puts blood and semen in their Eucharistic cakes.

>>2052861
>Searching for truth, wherever God may present it, as long as it fits in scripture is "satanic" and a "false religion".

Don't you have a eucharist2go to be eating right now cletus? Maybe it'll stop the snake venom in your veins.

>>2052867
Ok thanks for respond! Don't have any Buddhist commentaries from that time on Catholic priest practices though?

>>2052864
Only weak tea.
https://youtu.be/haLmJYBp_a4

Take Lhamo Dondrub's perspectives with a grain of salt, desu.

>>2052886
It's something at least! Thank you for the video, any reason why I shouldn't particularly trust Lhamo Dondrub's perspective?

>>2052745
I don't have too many nice things to say about vajrayana. I looked into it, I tried out some of the practices, I found that they aren't for me, and I left them be. But I won't deny that it is a path that culminates in enlightenment, and I don't really denigrate tantrikas as lesser. It's like "I'll see you niggas on the other shore", you know?

>>2052881
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yQud-ckpJM

>>2052894
No I dig. It's hard out there for orthodox AND heterodox. I mean, what are the chances of you getting an initiator flown in from Tibet to do a Green Tara initiation?

Further? Where are you going to go for sermons on the Pali canon? There are only a few cities where the sort of Saivism I'm interested in is practiced in the West, and are HIGHLY secretive in India.

>>2052895
Actually this talk gets good about halfway through. I've a suspicion he's referencing a section of the Pali canon where Buddha gives discourse on why different people attain different qualities of Dhyana; why one sees divine sights, while another hears divine sounds, why yet another gets neither, while a fourth gets both.

It's all disposition. I don't even think this is a perennialist assertion, just that different people will gravitate toward different praxes.

>>2052908
You could always sell out Kashmir saivism for saiva siddhanta and go to the south. I'm obviously kidding.

But yeah I hear you. I wouldn't fully consider myself orthodox because I take practices and ideas from taoism and Hinduism/yoga. I think classical yoga (four margas) and the pali canon go together really smoothly with regard to practice, with a lot of important complementation. I also pull a lot from the Vedas and Upanishads. It all fits together so beautifully.

>>2052944
>I think classical yoga (four margas) and the pali canon go together really smoothly
I mean, they should. Buddha was a Yogi. Perhaps the most historically relevant Yogi with a capital Y.

It's easy to forget that Siddhartha came Attainment by becoming an expert in all the practices of his contemporaries.

>>2052950
Indeed, sir ape.

>>2052950
That's actually why I'm upset with Mahayana piggu's that are so arrogant as to see the "hinayana" as a lesser path. Modern boddhisattva-aspirants can be so full of shit. On the flip side there's modern hinayanists that are equally annoying, albeit for different reasons.

>>2052979
Frankly this is why I cannot commit to Buddhism.

The logical conclusion, to my eyes, is NOT to follow his teachings AFTER Attainment, but to do what he did to reach it.

>>2053001
My personal gripes with Hinyana/Theravada is that it looks too much like Catholicism.

I've known a few people who've gone to Hinyana and Therevada dominated lands in seek of sustenance and all they found was coffers looking for coin.

On Mahayana arrogance: The boat's a fuckin' boat. Big. Little. It don't matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-YfuVQmX8

>>2053028
>too much like Catholicism
Overtly exoteric Catholicism, I should say. It looks more like the glazed eyed and slack jawed congregation in Chickenfuck North Dakota, not a contemplative cloister.

>>2053003
That seems like a reason to commit to it. Buddhism as a path is the same as a tool, or as an object. The Buddha says that one should pick up the object, make use of it, and place it down once it has served its purpose. Getting to enlightenment is the whole of the practice; where does it prescribe what is to be done after that point? Once you transcend causality, I'd venture to speculate that the enlightened being would "know what to do" or at least have an enough of an advanced understanding of reality to be able to figure that out thereon.

>>2053041
It just rubs me the wrong way. I'd rather not have a quite-so-overt patron. Abhinavagupta's weird enough without going full blown Vajrayana and asserting he's an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara.

>the enlightened being would "know what to do" or at least have an enough of an advanced understanding of reality to be able to figure that out thereon.
Agreed.

>>2053028
>>2053036
What's wrong with Catholicism :(

>>2053067
Take what is useful to you.

>>2053086
Contemplative Catholic mysticism? Nothing.

The midwest congregation who comes to take communion once a week and on Christmas and then forget about the Holy Spirit for the rest of the year?

A fuckin' lot. (The same can be said of a lot of social protestants).

>>2053097
Orthodox mysticism > catholic mysticism.

>>2053092
I wouldn't read and cite the Pali canon if I thought Buddha was full of shit. It's no secret I think one can Attain on just about any spiritual praxis if you work it hard enough/look in the right spots.

I take an inverse position to the early Vajrayana commentators on Saivism; the Vajrayana practices WILL get you there, I just like the other.

I'd castrate myself if I could go back and participate in the court sponsored debates between Saivism and Mantrayana.

>>2053114
>the Vajrayana practices WILL get you there, I just like the other.
I agree.

>>2053105
"Gnostic" mysticism > Oriental mysticism > Orthodox mysticism > Catholic Mysticism

>>>/x/

>>2053132
>the history of a religion doesn't belong on the history and humanities board

Almost,
"Gnostic" mysticism > Oriental mysticism = Orthodox mysticism >>>> Catholic "Mysticism"

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>>2053143
>= Orthodox
Chalcedonian dyophysite, pls.

>>2053151
>not skipping on the chalcedonianism

So how do I become a saivite in the west?
Do I need to be initiated?
Is the International Nath Order legit?

>>2053160
>Is the International Nath Order legit?
The short answer is yes.
The long answer is 'sorta'.

Mahendranath had some health issues late in life. He had trouble breathing. His oxygen was low. This impacted his mood, personality, and ultimately judgement.

INO is legitimate insomuch as Mahendranath appointed his successor. This appointment may not be exactly legitimate. The original successor was to be Lokanath. INO doesn't like Lokanath. It's my personal opinion that Lokanath was a more fitting successor.

Chumbley was too, but again, brain dysfunction.

Lokanath's website is....
>>2035188
>http://www.shivashakti.com

>>2053174
what is the controversy within the naths?

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>>2053201
http://www.shivashakti.com/PersonalStatement.htm
Over the years Dadaji's letters had been critical of Mike's handling of things but only on peripheral matters like the way in which his manuscripts were published or circulated. This was a volte face without warning. Some subsequent letters from Dadaji expressed other even odder ideas about Mike's activities. Some phoning around to some of the AMOOKOS group found much bewilderment and resentment there. The possibilities seemed to me that either Dadaji was performing a brutal training gambit on Mike rather in the way that Marpa kept knocking down the house that he had Milarepa build for him until Milarepa finally achieved enlightenment, or, alternatively, Dadaji had flipped his lid. The truth maybe lies somewhere between. Certainly Dadaji said Bright Shining was a magickal script intended to "tickle Mike between the sphericals", and he expressed continuing concern for Mike's advancement up till his death.

The problem, of course, is that the accusations were so wildly off target that they provoked a variety of unfortunate reactions. Mike, not surprisingly, found it hard to believe that Dadaji could say such things of him and harboured suspicions that the whole thing might have been rnanufactured in Seattle.

>>2053225
The explanation for all this, I think, lies in Dadaji's state of health. I was in no way his doctor but his letters generally commented on his current state and what the Mehmadabad doctors were doing for him. As early as 1978 he was having episodes of vertigo lasting a day or two and at the time said they were due to shortage of blood to the brain. In fact, arteriosclerosis of the arteries in the neck can result commonly in episodes of this nature by restricting blood flow to the brain. Dadaji was trained and spent his early life as a physiotherapist and was pretty certain to have been familiar with this. Over the years he had many such attacks and other episodes highly suggestive of the same sort of pathology which he called "the crumps". In 1981, when Lalita visited him in Mehamadabad she found him recovering from a minor stroke and completed a letter to me he had started to write but couldn't finish. Some of these episodes were followed by lasting disability. He had difficulties with writing. For a long time he was unable to write in his cursive hand though he could manage in block capitals. Sometimes his words became rather chaotic. He had episodes of difficulty with speech. He had to wrap his pen in layers of paper to be thick enough for him to grip at all. In the last year or two of his life he had fits which were epileptic in type at the onset but which were the precursors of coma lasting two or three days. After these he tended to have extensions of his disabilities from which recovery was rather slow and probably incomplete.

>>2053233
All of these episodes are most likely to have been caused by disturbances to blood flow to parts of his brain and some at least to actual infarcts where patches of brain tissue die as a result of loss of blood supply. His doctors locally must have come to this conclusion because they were treating him with a drug combination appropriate for this and for nothing else. Such episodes will result in the loss of an area of brain cells each time they happen. The end result of a long series of these can include memory loss and the pattern that this takes is quite different from that seen in, for instance, Alzheimer's disease, It is patchy. Small areas of memory are lost. The subject is not aware that he has forgotten because the gaps are filled with false data that the brain cooks up without there being conscious awareness of this and these are perceived as true memories. This process is referred to as "confabulation". The result is that the subject has "memories' stored that have no relation to fact but he is serenely unaware that there is anything wrong with them. Dadaji had the necessary pathology of his brain and its blood supply to result in this type of memory disturbance and I feel pretty convinced that it explains what has happened. The situation is roughly similar to a computer with the processor functioning well enough but some areas of RAM containing corrupt data. Garbage in, garbage out applies to both.

if tantra is so powerful then why did he succumb to such pedestrian aging diseases?

>>2053242
Show me one (1) human not ravaged by the procession of time, violence, or mishap.

>>2053247
Most humans don't claim to have godlike supernatural powers including power over death.

>>2053258
Most humans are pussies that can't have supernatural powers.

>>2053258
I don't see "protection from anoxic event causing brain damage in old age" in the list of tantrik siddhis.

>>2053278
^designated shitting post

>>2053267
Then what separates them from the average joe? It's just as bad as that e a koetting guy who claims to have contact with powerful wealth-granting entities but still needs a day job as a carpet cleaner.

>>2052867
Why do you eat things with semen and blood? I mean, the explanation

>>2053281
>what separates them from the average joe
>powerful wealth-granting entities
Have you actually READ the nondualism of Abhinavagupta?

Also fuck Matt Lawrence.

>>2053282
Wrong type of Indian here, mate.

>>2053283
Comingled sexual fluids = Elixir of Life.

>>2053285
>280
More like just under four thousand, I think, on this board. Desuarchive is hanging.

>>2053290
>Elixir of Life
Teach us.

>>2053290
>Have you actually READ the nondualism of Abhinavagupta?
Why should I waste time reading ancient texts, eating semen cakes, and sacrificing wild goats if in the end it offers the same tangible benefits as larping?

>>2053290
And what does that elixir of life to you? How do you use it?

>>2053302
http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib66.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpKachYTr-4

Plus the sex magick folder in my library.

>>2053306
With a name like that you'd think it'd confer "protection from anoxic event causing brain damage in old age"

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>>2053304
>if in the end it offers the same tangible benefits as larping?
That's a no, you haven't read it, and appear to have no intention or desire to, and wouldn't be convinced if I did list the siddhis and their explanations or their use, and I mean I could give you the materials Matt Lawrence bastardizes to try it yourself (but you won't), just like I could give you Sarada-Tilaka-Tantram to try tantrik sorcery yourself (though I'm CERTAIN you won't) even though that's not my interest or the topic of this thread.

>>2053306
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarasa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahaja

>>2053321
Wait, did you just entirely miss the literal biological genetic implication of 'elixir of life'?

Fine, you want a benefit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermidine
>Spermidine has also been reported to protect the heart from aging and prolong the lifespan of mice, while in humans it was correlated with lower blood pressure.[15] It also was found to reduce the amount of aging in yeast, flies, worms, and human immune cells by inducing autophagy.[16] Recently Tirupathi Pichiah et al., suggested that spermidine may be helpful for treating type 2 diabetes.[17]

>>2053343
>in humans it was correlated with lower blood pressure
Rather mild effects for something named after a substance that supposedly grants immortality. You can lower your blood pressure in easier ways than eating your own cum.

>>2053358
You just flew right past all this >>2053332
>Gorakshanath, who wrote the first texts of the Nathas, explains Samarasa as a state of absolute freedom, peace, and attainment in the realization of the Absolute Truth. He placed it on a higher level than samadhi.

How much of this stuff remains untranslated to English?

Do you practice this stuff personally?

>>2052908
>There are only a few cities where the sort of Saivism I'm interested in is practiced in the West, and are HIGHLY secretive in India.

Whats so special about this specific group/sect?

>>2054517
A fair amount.
Yes.

>>2054537
Uttara Kaula Trika just resonates with me. Abhinavagupta's a very impressive personality. Tantraloka seem to have echoes of concepts around 900-1000 AD that would be considered for five hundred years plus (or more) in the West, speculations on a germ theory of genetics (variance must be both inborn and inherited), and some Godelian set theory (sufficiently complex systems don't have the capacity study themselves or gain valid data on themselves).

Who started jerkin' off on the report button? Or is our spammer a ban evader that gets all posts from their IP purged?

I ask because legit questions got removed while a tiny touch of the shitposting didn't.

Be tactical about your anti-christfag reporting. I'd hate for the guy who was asking about Jain tantra to get banned.

Hey Thoth. Thanks for all of this info dump. Really interesting stuff.

I want to ask you something as you frequently reply to christposting with something like:
>>2048366
>There is no place in my heart for the "Salvation" of the Nazarene.

I wish to understand your perspective on this. Don't you consider Jesus as a worthwhile teacher? What exactly is your gripe with his message? Do you consider it "slave mentality"?

Because from some of your posts over the time, it seems you endorse an underlying "gnostic" (broadly speaking) undertone in most religious traditions.

I think that Christianity, as a syncretic movement, still retains in its esoteric tradition the anti-somatic bias towards the mind-body dualism; as well as a negative bias on the ecosystemic principle (man is not made for this world).

As other movements, I believe the message of the "Nazarene" was pointing against idolatry and dogmatism (jewish philistinism) and towards a social-oriented lighweight gnostic tradition. The fact that this actually became eventually idolatry and dogmatism (as in the current Church) is a different thing.

I seriously doubt that you are one of those who confuse the position of the Church over the centuries with the inner message of the Gospels (not literalism). I'm talking about Apocrypha also, of course. (although John contains sufficient proof for gnostic discourse).

Looking forward in hearing from you.

>>2054831
>Don't you consider Jesus as a worthwhile teacher?
Compared to who? Generally speaking, no.

>What exactly is your gripe with his message?
With *Christ's*? Minimal. With Paul? A LOT. Original sin? The Jews are the biggest problem, not Rome? Reduction of Abrahamic mysticism to "beleeb in jeebuz"? De-emphasis of the earthly kingdom?

>mind-body dualism
Garbage concept.

>ecosystemic principle (man is not made for this world)
See my above gripe about de-emphasis on the earthly kingdom.

>pointing against idolatry
Ironic, considering the vast majority of Christism has become idolatrous.

>The fact that this actually became eventually idolatry and dogmatism (as in the current Church) is a different thing.
Garbage in, garbage out.

>that you are one of those who confuse the position of the Church over the centuries with the inner message of the Gospels (not literalism).
I'm not, I just say shit like that to get the KJO fuckers and hypercalvinists to fuck off.

My personal position with Christ is relatively complex. I'm somewhere between Mandaean rejection in favor of John the Baptist as initiator, and passive non-Pauline Gnostic acceptance (Sure, he lived, sure, he died for sin, sure. None of that does me any good without getting into the mind (Nous) of Christ). See:

>>2053003
>Frankly this is why I cannot commit to Buddhism.
>The logical conclusion, to my eyes, is NOT to follow his teachings AFTER Attainment, but to do what he did to reach it.

>I'm talking about Apocrypha also, of course. (although John contains sufficient proof for gnostic discourse).
My "faith", insomuch as it relates to Christism, is mostly found in exoterically non-canonical texts. Gospel of Thomas. Gospel of Phillip. Gospel of Truth. Book of Enoch. Second Esdras. The "Adam and Eve" texts. Thunder: Perfect Mind.

Thanks OP

I've been interested in different meditation techniques, but unfortunately the closest thing to instruction near me is an amateur buddhist meditation class which is very simplistic and doesn't explain any of the theory behind the technique. Even so, my experiences in the class SEEM (a big caveat) to match parts of buddhists teaching, such as being able to disangage from the "monkey mind", feelings of calm and bliss, being able to focus strongly on a single subject, feeling less attached to my sense of self, and thoughts about how there aren't really separate people or objects, everything is one continuous existence.

But I'm just getting this from reading online and comparing to my own experiences, so it's obviously not reliable. Everyone always says "find a reputable teacher" but there simply isn't one near me. I'm thinking I should stick with the basic level I'm at now so I don't try and go further blindly. Have you got a take on it?

>>2054890
Just read the Pali canon. Learn some citations inside of the Sutta Pitaka.

Are you near a large(ish) city in the US? There should be a Dharma Center run by the Tibetan theocracy near you if you're thirsty for the actual religion instead of bored MFA graduates teaching yoga but telling other people not to display Vajrayana religious art because "muh appropriation", as if they're ANY better.

In either case any practicing Buddhist should be reading the Pali canon. This isn't a game of feels, here, there's a text tradition only slightly younger than the OT.

FWIW, you can self initiate into a number of Tantras, but it's a serious pain in the butt.

>>2054876
To clarify my position:

To experience what Christ did in the garden before Crucifixion is worth ten lifetimes of communion or oral confessions of faith.

>>2054911
I've been reading the Dhammapada as it's the most widely available. I'll try and find a good ebook with translations of the rest.

I would say I'm agnostic at the moment, I'm not really a practicing buddhist, just interested in finding out more right now.

>>2054941
>I'll try and find a good ebook with translations of the rest.
I use these:
http://www.palicanon.org/
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/

>agnostic
Buddhism does not require you believe in any deity.

See:
>>2037359
>Death and no death, these are also imagined.
>In the expanse of equality, there's neither death nor no death.
>The same with dark and light and gods and demons.
>The expanse of equality is all there is.
>I have never seen a single thing that's real.

>>2054949
I don't mean agnostic about god(s) I mean agnostic about buddhist teachings, which is why I want to learn more and be more informed about them.

>>2054961
You want >>2054911
>Sutta Pitaka
That's the section of Pali canon concerned Buddhist teaching/discourse. The vast majority of Pali canon is tied up with like ethical codes for priests and layfolk.

>>2054980
Thanks very much

>>2054982
That's what I'm here for!

>>2054876
>>2054922

Ok. Thank you for your answer. Interesting position.

Would you agree that we have two clear paths in Christian practice?

Exoteric- mass faith, offering a somewhat control scheme via a belief system aimed at social and political objectives.

- Interface (or Surrogate practice): Ecclesiastic, the priesthood, acting as an arm for the power factory which is the Church, while somewhat (locally) attempting to offer solutions and guides for people via sometimes insightful, sometimes distorted knowledge.

and Esoteric - asceticism, monastical priesthood, focused on working their way on "Jacob's ladder" (for various reasonss; for example the imported Manichean concept of human souls filling the heavenly positions of fallen angels via the de-humanizing process of attaining sainthood.)

So what I see is that you reject the Divinity of Christ as you consider it idolatrous but embrace some fringe-teaching which you find connected with other esoteric traditions from other currents.

>None of that does me any good without getting into the mind (Nous) of Christ

So this means that you see a difference between the Path and the handled Tradition. You probably differentiate between what was the actual life of a teacher and the distorted message that religions echo thoughout the centuries for lateral purposes.

But don't you accept a grey zone? As in; the teachings after Attainment are basically the optimised guidelines for reaching it, given from a superior point of view which enabled the teacher to offer others the change/ variables to attain?

As in the "illuminated being" which chooses not to go in the superior echelon but return to pave the way for others?

And if we are talking of attainment; does it matter for your if Christ is to be rejected or not? Because the way I see it - it should make no difference. He said that "you can do the works I do and even more" (John 14:12).

>>2055064
The way I see it, you have more of a problem with traditional christian faith and the way it was distorted (even by the apostles); but you have a connection to the archetypal nature of the teachings of Christ.

Sorry if I inquire too much. This is my first attempt of having a conversation with you and I am grateful for the exchange.

Is kriya yoga legit? Which modern organization would you recommend for initiation?