Why was abortion outlawed in most societies throughout history?

>>2031970
Because they're competent and don't let the women hold society at gunpoint.

>>2031970
>>2031985
It wasn't? It was generally unregulated

>>2031985
What the fuck are you even talking about jesus fucking christ. Abortion being banned is society holding women at gunpoint if anything.

>>2031970
abortion doesn't happen at that stage, it happens when it's a fetus

>>2031985
Who says men aren't holding society at gunpoint?

>>2031985
Are you f*cking kidding me? Women are the ones being held at gunpoint.

>>2031970
It wasn't.

And even then a lot of the time they could just murder it after it was born.

>>2031970
It was dangerous, could lead to death of the wife, and violated the property rights of the male if done in secret from her husband

No one gave a flying fuck about random peasent abortions from flings, it was a problem with property succession

>>2031970
Because medical technology was shit and getting an abortion was far more dangerous than actually having a kid

When abortion was safe like in Roman times when they had a plant that induced miscarriages, it was legal, even encouraged to a degree

>>2031992
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Don't waste your actual facts that are true here

>>2031994
>>2031999

Retard ideologists need to respect the nuances of history and biology if they want a realistic view of the world and not one pushed by football hooligan banter.

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>>2031970

The practiced infanticide instead.

https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/arizanthro/article/viewFile/18264/18000

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>>2031970
Because individualism is pretty recent
Lot of disgusting stuff have been legal and normalized in different eras
In the 18th century it was treating blacks as animals, in the 1940s it was gassing the kikes, now it's killing unborn babies
People from the future will be quick to judge us like we judge slavers, forgetting we've been brainwashed into thinking abortion is okay since we were kids

>>2031970
It wasn't? It was generally unregulated and even encouraged at points.

Also infanticide was a thing.

>>2031970

Murder.

>>2031970
Wasn't.

It's an Abraamic thing.

>>2031970
Because a healthy society is naturally interested in protecting itself and its future. New members for society are a key part in this.
>>2031985
This. Good post.
>>2031991
No. Bringing fresh blood is the duty that women have to fulfill. You can hardly claim that this is a job to be done by men, can you?

>>2031970
>Why was abortion outlawed in most societies throughout history?
It wasn't, in fact many societies went full infanticide.

>>2031991
If you don't want to contribute to society in the most meaningful way possible, you're free to live in the wilderness.

>>2032256
>having an abortion means you can never have kids
Oh wait, abortions are most common among blacks and Hispanics, who have significantly higher birth rates than the American average! Look at that.

Most women who abort do so because the pregnancy was unplanned and they're not in a position to take care of the child NOW; it implies next to nothing about their plans for having children in the future.

>>2032001
/thread

>>2032026
kek.

>>2032256
Reminder that Isaac Newton was a permavirgin by choice. I guess he should have just fucked off since he wasn't contributing in "the most meaningful way possible."

>>2031970
"""Ought"""

>>2032288
Most women who abort are murderers, and live with that guilt their entire lives. The ones who are not murderers killed their child so that they could live, and they live with survivor's guilt for the rest of their lives.

But sure, idiots, go have sex with whomever, whenever, and however. What's the worst that could happen?

>>2032498
You're right, it is a hard decision to make. That's why women should be able to make it on their own and take responsibility for their choices :^]

>>2032256
Everyone who whines about birthrates will likely never reproduce.

>>2031999
>WTF I CAN'T KILL MY BABY! THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!1111

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>>2032532
>fetus
>baby

>>2031991
>Abortion being banned is society holding women at gunpoint if anything
This pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with current society

>>2031999
>Are you f*cking kidding me?
>It is the current year!
>You are a fucking white male!

>>2032536
>Dude, it's just that stage of human life, it's perfectly okay to kill it

Meanwhile 200 years ago
>Dude, it's just that race of human, it's perfectly okay to kill it

>>2031991
Rightfully so

>>2032507
>Woman have the choice to murder :^]

>>2032547
Nice equivalence. What punishment do you think women who get abortions should recieve?

>>2032555
When people are threatning your personal comfort, it's okay to kill them
Killing your baby to avoid having to raise it is no different from killing someone who tries to steal your gf or killing someone you're indebted to
The later two arent allowed yet because society is still backward, but they should be allowed in the name of personal freedom

>>2032567
>What punishment do you think women who get abortions should recieve?

Being forcefully impregnated again and forced to carry it to term

>>2031970
Because most societies considered the baby inside the woman to be a distinct life.

>>2032574
kek

>>2032567
Whatever the sentencing guidelines for first degree murder are, duh.

You know that if blastula stage you was scraped from your mum's womb, you would not exist, right?

>>2032507

Murdering someone being a hard decision does not justify murder.

English and American abortion law dates to the 19th century. It was not a subject in English law at all until this point.

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>>2032568
>When people are threatning your personal comfort, it's okay to kill them
>Killing your baby to avoid having to raise it is no different from killing someone who tries to steal your gf or killing someone you're indebted to
>The later two arent allowed yet because society is still backward, but they should be allowed in the name of personal freedom.
Sometimes I don't know if some of you are just trolling or just this legitimally retarded

>>2032498
OK, see, this is interesting. See what you just did?

I said nothing about the morality of abortion, just pointed out that if your worry is that abortion lets women shirk their duty to society by not having kids, that's not really a concern, because the demographics that have a lot of abortions also have the highest birthrates. Abortion is actually a very poor method of population control; affordable contraception (not to mention cultural factors and the economy) has a much, much bigger impact than abortion does.

In other words, I made a factual point. You responded with a bunch of REEEE about how abortion is murder. An absolute non sequitur, irrelevant to anything I said. You just dodged what I said and attacked something I didn't. And that's how almost every conversation with anti-abortion activists goes.

Can you see what a bad impression that makes?

>Why was abortion outlawed in most societies throughout history?[citation needed]
it wasn't. infanticide has been commonplace in most non-abrahamic cultures. it's still commonplace in parts of china and india, and hunter/gatherer populations almost unanimously murder their babies on occasion.

>>2032582
You know that if your father had just decided not to fuck on the night you were conceived the world would be exactly the same as one in which you were aborted.
>>2032606
I doubt you'd want to live in a world in which people have a moral and civic responsibility to reproduce.

>>2032498
>Most women who abort live with that guilt their entire lives.
No, this is simply a right-wing fantasy.

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>>2031970
but it wasn't

the bible has a handy how-to guide in it

>>2032606
You did, actually. You said murder was acceptable if the pregnancy was inconvenient.

>>2032013
It's a human once sperm fertilizes an egg.

>>2032611
>You know that if your father had just decided not to fuck on the night you were conceived the world would be exactly the same as if he kill you just when you were born.
This fucking stupid equivalencies have to go back

>all of these people forcing their modern-day values on people of the past

/pol/ is the worst.

>>2032611
But I would not have been murdered.

Can you see the difference between being murdered and not being murdered?

>>2032598
I think he's trying to open the eyes of people brainwashed into believing abortion if okay by showing you to what it actually compares

>>2032612
Meet more women who will talk to you.

>>2032611
Who are you trying to reply to? The bit about women "shirking their duty to society by not having kids" was a restatement of these posts >>2032256 >>2032165 not my own position.

>>2032629
not an argument

>>2032625
>/pol/ is the worst.
pol is pro-abortion. Even then legalizing and subsudizing abortion is moronic in every possible way

>>2032611
>I doubt you'd want to live in a world in which people have a moral and civic responsibility to reproduce.

>weekly penis inspections at your local government Health, Wellness and Fertility Clinic
>government assigned wife

Not an easy choice I'm afraid

>>2032636
*Eugenics
They're pro-eugenics, not abortion. Once you've got your Aryan super couples, they'll be encouraged to have children and punished if they damage the future of the wh*te race.

>>2032633
It was meant as a suggestion. Of course, that suggestion may not be possible for you to follow.

>>2032645
>They're pro-eugenics
They have a daily pro abortion thread. pol is just the edgy cousin of r/politics. They are just a bunch of edgy liberals

>>2032636
/pol/ is a Christian board and condemns murder.

>>2032611
>If you hadnt been conceived, you wouldnt exist. Therefore it's okay to murder you

Great argument senpai

>>2032652
>/pol/ is a Christian board
HUEHUEHUE

>>2032651
You don't take their christLARPing deux-vult posting seriously? Those are the Christians of tomorrow and you should respect that.

>daily abortion threads
Their arguments always seemed to boil down to Eugenics to me. It's been about a year since I stopped visiting aside to watch national events as they unfold through their lens.

>>2032662
If the pregnancy were terminated, you wouldn't have yet existed at that point. A "you" requires sapience.

>>2032648
Okay, but if you thought it was relevant to the discussion then my suggestion is for you to put less value on anecdotal evidence.
http://www.webmd.com/women/news/20000822/study-says-most-women-dont-regret-abortion#1

>>2032671
Sapience begins in the scrotum

>>2032624
>killed
>before you were born
kek
>>2032626
If abortion is murder then masturbation is defrauding the sperm bank.

>>2032671
>A "you" requires sapience

Explain why newborn murder is illegal then

>>2032705
They're basically autonomous at that point, you're no longer just evicting a non-sapient entity from someone's body. Sure full sapience isn't achieved yet, but it will shortly and it's not occupying someone's body.

>>2032688
Do you realize that fetus are protected by law unless the mother chooses to abort it right? Fetus are considered people by law unless the mother chooses to kill it.It is murder in a legal sense you stupid dingus

>>2032714
Note I mean autonomous in the sense of not being attached to someone's body, you obviously need to feed and care for them. Which is an obligation that it's possible to reject.

>>2032720
Yes and? Murder is defined as unlawful killing. That's unlawful. This is why execution, lawful use of police force (I'm not sure what the proper name for this is), self-defense, and war time killing aren't considered murder.

>>2032726
>murder: deliberatly killing
Did you just made up that definition?

>>2032735
No. I'm using the legal definition for what constitutes a murder. Which is the one that would matter here.

ah, the sound of angry fedoras flapping in the breeze

>>2032720
The only western nation to have explicitly stated that a foetus is protected by law is Ireland

>>2032735
What is manslaughter?

Daily reminder that church and state are separated for a reason

Daily reminder that the only factor going into abortion is if the fetus has developed enough intellectual ability to be sapient, and that this issue should be decided by research and scientific inquiry..

Daily reminder all other arguments are useless pathos.

>>2031988
hitler dubs speak the truth. OP what the fuck are you talking about? what constitutes most societies and would you care to cite sources of "most societies" making abortions illegal and how strictly it was inforced?

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>>2032756
This
Science and reason > feels

>>2032756
>Daily reminder that the only factor going into abortion is if the fetus has developed enough intellectual ability to be sapient

Fuck off, retard
Sapience is achieved around 4 years old
Currently, there's no objective factor used to define abortion since it varies from on country to another
Fact is people arbitrarily define what is or not an human being according to doubtful criteria (does it have eyes yet, does it have a heart yet, is it sapient yet, can it breath yet, can it walk yet, can it buy its own food yet) when the only objective starting point is fertilization

>>2032787
The current benchmark in the west is when the fetus develops a nervous system and can respond to outside stimuli. Which I believe is around 20 days.

Seems appropriate to me.

>>2032748
Usually something that results in a human death but was not planned, premeditated or even intended.

>>2032756
I say we draw the sapient line at 1 IQ point higher than you have, so say 75, and abort you today.

>>2032768
Biology is pretty clear on how humans are made.

Maybe take a biology class next year at your failed middle school.

>>2032787
Laws are not, and have never been, and shall never be built on objective criteria. All philosophical and political ideals will eventually come to something arbitrary if you dig deeply enough.

I can demonstrate this by playing the why game with you if you like.

Why should we value the fetus?

>>2032256
Says the 300lb NEET living off of food stamps

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>>2032726
The relevant moral question for a society to decide is "Which forms of intentional killing are justifie and which are not?"
The list should include no less than
Abortion, War, Capital Punishment, Euthanasia, Suicide, Defense, Aggression, and Sacrifice.
(Obviously there is a lot of bleed over - for instance Abortion and War are often times also self defense, Euthanasia bleeds into suicide, and capital punishment can be seen as a form of sacrifice depending on your justification)
Then, what each individual person needs to do is determine which categories of killing they think are murder (unjustified) and not murder (justified). Bingo, blamo - you got yourself a Theory of Justified Killing,

The problem from either perspective (pro-life or pro-choice) is that everybody wants to pretend that their personal moral preference is obvious. ["No duh of course capital punishment is wrong BUT of coooourse killing a fetus is just a women exercizing rights over her body"]
When really none of those categories of dath are obviously right or wrong. Gotta use reason and argumentation to make your fucking point.

The weakest point that pro-choicers have is that they argue that fetus isn't human until they find out that they are wrong and then switch over to some red herring version of "personhood" (like sapient, or sentient, or autonomous) as if any of those sub categories proved their point.

The truth is that whether you believe in moral facts or not (I'm talking to you Stirner ppl) everybody will have to develope an argument as to why they believe some or another category or scenario justifies killing a human and accept that not everybody will be compelled by the same moral logic.

>>2032756
Right
Wrong
Wrong

>>2032830
>food stamps
That's for poor minorities. I live off of a combination of autism bux and my parents.

>>2032817
>Seems appropriate to me.

It's an arbitrary criterion, just like sapience, ability to breath, ability to walk, ability to talk, ability to earn a living...etc
Life starts at fertilization, the rest is just stage of developpement

Current abortion is hypocritical
Either consciouness is what matters and newborns should be legally killable, either it isnt what matters and abortion should be illegal
Nervous system is irrelevant since painless ways to kill newborns exist

>>2032838
what school?

>>2032852
huh?

>>2032850
this nigga gets it

>>2032852
>>2032858
Oh its a bookstore

>>2032838
>The truth is that whether you believe in moral facts or not (I'm talking to you Stirner ppl) everybody will have to develope an argument as to why they believe some or another category or scenario justifies killing a human and accept that not everybody will be compelled by the same moral logic.

The problem is that every position is ultimately chosen out of sentiment and at it's core an arbitrary one. To hold any moral position you first need to make a leap and place some value or concept as something of worth to build it around. Pro-choicers take a leap in assuming that a woman's personal autonomy is inherently of value, anti-choicers make a leap in assuming that all life is precious if it happens to have human genetics; when in fact there's no truly grounded reason to believe either of these positions.

>>2032858
That picture. I wanna know if I'm attending classes with a skilled Upskirtsman.

>>2032861
>bookstore
damn

>>2032768
Yes? This science is pretty settled actually - Humans get pregnant with - wait for it - HUMAN babies! Ta-dah! We don't carry around non-intrinsically-valuable pig babies until birth.

>>2032850
>Current abortion is hypocritical

No, it's just arbitrary, as is your own position. Why is life inherently valuable just because it holds human genetics? Do you oppose all forms of killing (for instance, including self defense or wartime killing) or just ones you don't like?

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>>2032867
Practice, practice, practice
Books stores, libraries and sight seeing are a great resource.

>>2032875
In what way are human fetuses intrinsically valuable?

>>2032876
Do you hold the opposite belief? Lol. Do you support all killing?

>>2032876
>Why is life inherently valuable just because it holds human genetics? Do you oppose all forms of killing (for instance, including self defense or wartime killing) or just ones you don't like?

Normies (who support abortion) value human life above all and try to get over abortion guilt by claiming fetus arent human (as if life stages are species...)
They're hypocritcal
From my point of view, either you don't value human life and abortion is okay, either you do and abortion isnt okay
But the current stance is hypocritical

>>2032894
The only argumentative means of securing a difference between justified and unjustified killing is to assume human life is valuable and that their are required features or circumstances that make it justifiable to take a human life. So yes. I don't think humans are metaphysically different than any other creature or object but I recognize that without such an assumption it becomes hard to oppose raw dog fucking murder, wars of aggression, lynching and other awful awful shit.

That is to say - It is GOOD for us to assume that humans are intrinsically valuable because it secures us the kind of society we want.

Also, I don't think my position rebuffs the pro-choice. What is DOES do is force the pro-choicer to recognize that they want to kill a certain kind of human (which is okay as long as they fucking do the moral, argumentative work of justifying it)

>>2032887
>easy mode: Patterned dress
>LEGENDARY DANTE MUST DIE MODE: Dark gray with frontward stitching

>>2032897
No. I accept that my positions start at an arbitrary point. Truly consistent positions are basically impossible to hold.

>>2032899

>Normies (who support abortion) value human life above all and try to get over abortion guilt by claiming fetus arent human (as if life stages are species...)

That's mostly because they haven't thought of the specific terminology or concepts behind it. What they care about is subjective personhood, which requires personality and such.

They don't want to allow people to terminate newborns because there's no longer a concern about a woman's autonomy involved; there's literally no reason to be doing it.

>But the current stance is hypocritical

Again, just arbitrary. They aren't holding anyone to a different moral stance than they hold themselves.

>>2032927
>The only argumentative means of securing a difference between justified and unjustified killing is to assume human life is valuable and that their are required features or circumstances that make it justifiable to take a human life.

Actually, there's an even easier way: to assume that you don't want to be killed, and that a society which allows unlawful killing is more likely to kill you.

>That is to say - It is GOOD for us to assume that humans are intrinsically valuable because it secures us the kind of society we want.

It's not necessary, see above.

>>2032923
Fuck a woman autonomy. People have their autonomy violated by every criminal law. The point of such violation is to secure the rights of the person the criminal wants to violate (in this case the woman's child). Speeding laws violate a womans right to blast down residential streets at 80 mph but they exist to secure the rights of the residents in that neighborhood. Laws violating your autonomy is NO moral ground to oppose the law.

>>2032939
> to assume that you don't want to be killed, and that a society which allows unlawful killing is more likely to kill you.

The most critical of informal fallacies.
Exactly what we are talking about is "How do we decide which sorts of killing are justified?" so using "Don't allow unjustified killing" in your argument is classic question begging.

>>2032954
>Speeding laws violate a womans right to blast down residential streets at 80 mph but they exist to secure the rights of the residents in that neighborhood.

There's a sound reason to violate her autonomy in this case; she's putting individuals at risk, and creating a society where such dangers are tolerated. Abortion puts no one at risk, and represents no danger to autonomous humans.

>Laws violating your autonomy is NO moral ground to oppose the law.

Sure it is. You place autonomy as a "good" in your system of morals (again, all moral systems start at an arbitrary point) and then build around, violating this only in cases where not doing so would threaten the autonomy of others.

>>2032966
Again, it's fundamentally arbitrary which kinds of killing are "justified" or "unjustified." We allow abortion to secure personal autonomy. We allow self-defense to allow people to protect themselves. We allow war time killing so our country can pursue political objectives through armed force abroad.

>>2032939
>They don't want to allow people to terminate newborns because there's no longer a concern about a woman's autonomy involved; there's literally no reason to be doing it.

Women abort to avoid having to raise their child, not because pregnancy is annoying (it's a factor too, but a lesser one)
Killing a newborn achieve the same result (avoiding to raise kid) and should be allowed for women who couldnt get an abortion during pregnancy for whatever reason

>>2032987
Not necessary because the child can be put up for adoption.

>>2032967
>Abortion puts no one at risk, and represents no danger to autonomous humans.
>puts no one at risk
>no one

L0L. The baby. hahahah.

>Autonomous humans
>Look mom I posted it again! I added a word and now I can kill the babies and anybody who disagrees just doesn't understand.

Bra, I understand that you have a hard on for autonomy but it isn't obvious that autonomy ios what makes us "that-which-should-not-be-killed" . It's a cool moral theory but it holds as much water as "Kill der Juden!"

>>2032987
I disagree.

>why?
Because I don't like it.

>why?
Because I don't. Pregnancy termination doesn't upset my sense of right and wrong and unwanted children are annoying to deal with and I pity their existence.

>why?
I don't know. Social conditioning probably. You tell me.

>>2032977
If it were arbitrary we could roll dice. It's not so we use our fuckin' brains and reason about it.

My brain is unconvinced that "He hasn't passed through a vaginal portal" is a good reason for a person to be killed and you should maybe think about just biting the bullet and saying "Yes, I value certain rights over the lives of certain types of people"

>>2032997
>L0L. The baby. hahahah.

Not an autonomous person.

>Bra, I understand that you have a hard on for autonomy but it isn't obvious that autonomy ios what makes us "that-which-should-not-be-killed" . It's a cool moral theory but it holds as much water as "Kill der Juden!"

"Der Juden" are autonomous thinking human beings, and drawing a line in which the "Der Juden" wind up behind the killing line creates a society where it's considered acceptable to draw lines on ethnic grounds which could wind up placing me (or anyone else) behind such a line; it's not in my interests to support such a society.

Once again ALL moral positions are arbitrary.

>>2033008
>If it were arbitrary we could roll dice.

It's not in our collective interests to do so. Egoism also plays a role (though that in and of itself is an arbitrary value).

The sooner you accept that society and its rules are fundamentally arbitrary, the quicker you'll be on your way to making peace with it.

>"Yes, I value certain rights over the lives of certain types of people"

I never claimed otherwise. So do you. At the most basic I'm sure you value someone's right to life over another person's life, unless you're a pacifist.

>>2033011
>Autonomous
Not what makes a thing unkillable

>Once again ALL moral positions are arbitrary.
Are ethnic grounds more real reasons to oppose a killing than age? I know for a fucking facts that abortion would have been a real bad look for me when I was a fetus. Do you think I'd give a shit if my mom was all like "My body my decision" I'd say fuck you bitch.

>>2033024
>Not what makes a thing unkillable

No, but it does mean it's not in your interests to take part in a society where you can kill them without sound reason.

>Are ethnic grounds more real reasons to oppose a killing than age?

Nope. You notice I didn't make an argument from a standpoint of moral realism; reread the sentence, my reasons are strictly egoistic.

>I know for a fucking facts that abortion would have been a real bad look for me when I was a fetus.

You weren't then.

>Do you think I'd give a shit if my mom was all like "My body my decision" I'd say fuck you bitch.

You wouldn't say anything. You didn't exist yet.

>>2032992
We're considering that fetus and newborn lives don't matter senpai
Otherwise abortion should be illegal as well since the woman could just carry to term (minor annoyance if it means saving a life) and give the baby to adoption afterward

>>2033021
I don't believe its in our collective interest to allow abortion. Bam I just used an argument as strong as yours.

Also, so you think allowing ethnically grounded killing ultimately puts you at risk because - even if its not your ethnicity - it opens the door to your ethnicity or some other incidental feature of your being used to justify killing you. I get that. But how can you not get that abortion is similarly opening a legitimate pathway to the destruction of humans?
I could use your argument ("I don't want to allow killing type x because it could ultimately make my death more likely") against EVERY type of death including abortion.

>>2033043
Nope. You notice I didn't make an argument from a standpoint of moral realism; reread the sentence, my reasons are strictly egoistic

fair enough I get you now

>You weren't then.

Wrong

>You wouldn't say anything. You didn't exist yet.

Right....and then wrong.

>>2033065
That first line should be quoting

>>2033059
>I don't believe its in our collective interest to allow abortion.

In what way?

>But how can you not get that abortion is similarly opening a legitimate pathway to the destruction of humans?

It's been legal for nearly half a century at this point and hasn't yet, while not presenting any logical reason to think that an adult, thinking human being would be at risk due to this.

>I could use your argument ("I don't want to allow killing type x because it could ultimately make my death more likely") against EVERY type of death including abortion.

You could indeed, to various degrees of success. Once again, all moral positions are arbitrary. I invite you to play the why game with yourself; you'll never hit true intellectual bedrock, because you've ultimately pinned your values up in a void, the same as everyone else.

>>2033054
>We're considering that fetus and newborn lives don't matter senpai

In an intrinsic sense, no lives matter. But killing newborns serves no function.

>Otherwise abortion should be illegal as well since the woman could just carry to term (minor annoyance if it means saving a life) and give the baby to adoption afterward

That requires actively forcing her to carry it to term. It's not in our collective interests to do so.

>>2033065
>Wrong

In what way? Did any element of your self exist? Did you have inner experience?

>>2031985
>>2031991
We should ban guns then.

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The fetus isn't the innocent OR effectively ambivalent/non-feeling overgrown mammalian growth of STEM cells you think it is.

>>2031970
Because infant mortality was higher, so abortion was pointless the kid would die later anyway.

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>>2032987
>not because pregnancy is an annoying factor
>just kidding it is teehee

>>2031970
>Why was abortion outlawed in most societies throughout history?
It wasn't.

Even Abrahamics were into it.

>>2032026
Most valuable oppinion.

Because killing babies is immoral?

>>2031970
There was no easy way to abort a baby until the 20th century. Most attempted abortions ended up taking the mother's life.

You just left the baby in the woods if you didn't want it. At least in the Greco-Roman world.

>>2031970

What? There wasn't really a reliable method of abortion until the 19th century.

Previous methods just involved punching women in the belly and pushing them down the stairs.

>>2032567
Death penalty, not even memeing now.

>>2035506

Back then they had the baby but then fed it to the pigs or left it in the woods.

>>2031970
The romans used an abortion inducing plant so much it went extinct

>>2032756
>Daily reminder that church and state are separated for a reason
Yes, to protect the church from state.

>>2031970
Because destroying the next generation in efforts to absolve agency simply because you couldn't keep your legs shut (save for rapes, which are a minority of cases) is degenerate. Semen isn't airborne.

>>2035506
There are herbs that can reliably cause miscarriage, some of them are still used

>>2035515
And to protect society from the church

>>2035517
>Semen isn't airborne.

It is when I'm around!

>>2035533
nice digits

>>2031991
Yes being a whore is more important than raising new humans, women are such pieces of shit.

>>2035568
It literally is. Personal rights bitch, foetuses arent people

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>>2035568

Jokes on you!

I'm a eugenicist!

Abortions should be mandatory to degenerates!

>>2035575
>OOGA BOOGA ME WANT PENIS NOW!
The philosophers were right you women really are mindless wild animals.

>>2035596
Women have the right to be mindless wild animals if they want, so long as they dont hurt anyone else

>>2035624
>have the right
No you dont cunt, your feelings are not as important as the stability of human civilization thats why you subhumans were denied everything from the start because men knew you wild animals would destroy everything they build for short term animalistic pleasure.

>>2035624
Getting an abortion is murder.

>>2035632
Abortion preserves societal integrity

>>2035634
A foetus is not a person

>>2035653
Abortion enables animalistic whore behavior, a woman is a dumb animal they should have no say in whether a human lives or dies, only a man, the only abortion that should be legal is if the offspring of the woman does not belong to the man she is with thus he get rid of it.

>>2035653
It is. A women that gets an abortion must be a real sicko to do it

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>>2035634

Morality is a spook!

>>2032013
Tell me then, where do you draw the line?

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A baby's presence in the mother's body violates the non-agression principle and therefore she has every right to shoot it

>>2035653
>A foetus is not a person
>Humans at this particular stage of life are not persons because it's convenient for me

What does it remind me of....
Oh yeah
>Humans of this particular race are not persons because it's convenient for me

Same shit, different wrapper

>>2032498
>Most women who abort are murderers
No, you're just a fucking idiot. Most abortions are legal, therefore the people doing it are NOT murderers by definition.

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>>2032402
this desu

breeders are responsible for most of the sorrow in this world.

>>2035666
>a woman is a dumb animal they should have no say in whether a human lives or dies

No one, regardless of sex, should have the right to end a human life unless there's a good reason (and muh personal freedom/planned career isnt one)

>7 billion humans
>implying killing babies is morally wrong in a utilitarian sense

>>2036868
>all human races reproduce equally

Currently the most inferior races reproduce the most while the most valuable one reproduce the least
At this rate we'll be back the Medieval Dark Ages by 2200

>>2032402
By choice, yes. Not HIS choice though.

>>2032627
And how many people die each year from complications of
>no gf
or debt relief?

>>2036872
I'm not
>implying
that.

I wish that ebola would reach pandemic levels.

>>2036881
Many more die because of those (suicide) than by complication of pregnancy in the Western world

>>2035575
>foetuses arent people

Then tell me, if I stab a pregnant woman and kill the fetus inside, why am I charged with a crime other than vandalism or mayhem? Why are people charged with homicide-related crimes if it is not a life but a cluster of cells and goo?

Keep in mind that the legal definition of death is when the heart is irreversibly stopped. Wouldn't by that logic the definition of life be when the heart starts? Are you trying to say that it is a life, but not a 'human' life?

>>2036898
because stabbing a pregnant woman harms the woman?

>>2036908
Except killing an unborn baby the mother wanted to keep is regarded by the law as murder, not as mere assault

>>2036908
In addition to the attempted murder/ADW of the woman, that goes without saying.

I mean why am I charged with any homicide-related crime for stabbing the fetus when the mother can kill it on a whim whenever she wants. That is the problem I have with this.

The law contradicts itself immensely on abortion.

>>2031970
A combination of wanting the society to keep going on; desiring to keep women on the leash in sexuality (see next point); and because most abortion methods were more likely to kill the mother than the fetus.

>>2036918
>legal precedent created by my side of the debate proves my side is correct

>>2031991
Rightfully so to protect the innocent babies's life.

In a society where women have no qualms about infanticide, the government has to step in to protect the innocent.

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>>2036915
>Except killing an unborn baby the mother wanted to keep is regarded by the law as murder

And that is simply what doesn't sit right with me when it comes to abortion. It's contradictory and heartless.

A mother can simply decide whether or not something is a life? That's bullshit. Her frame of mind dictates whether or not something has any rights to live?

The law either needs to go one way or the other. Either it is a life and therefore can't be killed by anyone, or it isn't a life, but a cluster of cells and goo to be thrown in the trash when desired.

>>2036930
What do you mean 'my side'? The most liberal state in the nation, California, says that killing a fetus is murder, yet abortion is almost unanimously agreed upon as a right.

>>2036918
The law contradicts itself because it was written over the course of a century by different partisan majorities that didn't care about reason, only ideology and getting votes.

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I personally believe that abortion is murder, but I still support it's legalization. Abortion has greatly reduced the number of unwanted children that wind up becoming criminals down the line. Not to mention that the population is growing way too quickly and something needs to be done to slow this down or reverse population growth.

>>2036933
It's always funny to see these politicians like Sanders and Clinton virtue signal about how a nation is only as good as its treatment to 'its most vulnerable citizens', yet killing fetuses left and right on a whim is completely ok and they would die to protect that 'sacred right'.

>>2036943
It gives legal protection to pregnant women against being stabbed. philosophy has nothing to do with it.

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>>2036978
Nigga what?

Do women not already have legal protection from being stabbed?

>>2036986
I mean, the law is in place because people think it would be better to give longer sentences to criminals who attack pregnant women.

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>>2036993
But why would they be given higher sentences for attacking pregnant women if the fetus inside is just a sack of goo which the woman can discard at any time?

Why is it highly valued if a 3rd party kills it, but not the woman herself?

>>2037005
Because, like I said, it has nothing to do with philosophy, and everything to do with feelings/

>>2035521
No, separation of church and state literally exists to protect churches.

>>2035575
> foetuses arent people

Neither are women but we still give them rights.

>>2036796
Once it can reliably live outside of the womb

>>2031970
They'd throw the baby out in the elements if they didn't want it. Also there were plants which could induce abortion and they were popular among unwed women.

killing your offspring is degenerate

Dear /r9k/, I thought I'd sum up what's wrong with your views that are based on nothing but your insecurity over giving rights to women whom you feel already having power over you due to your weak low test personality.

>Women don't want to prevent unwanted pregnancies
This whole fuss is pretty unpleasant. Also, most educated middle-class couples/women regard their abortions as a personal tragedy that had to happen. Unwanted pregnancies are usually one-time accidents amongst people you claim to want to reproduce.
>One abortion is the equivalent of never having kids
Wrong, it's the opposite, even. An abortion of an unwanted fetus is often done to prevent absolute bankruptcy of an individual at a young age, so that they could raise families that are worth raising later.
>Abortions encourage "slutty" behaviour
No, they don't, in fact, there is no connection between the two. A stable relationship with one partner usually means much more occasions of sexual intercourse, thus more chance for a possible accident.
>There is anything wrong to have many partners to begin with
No, there isn't. Period.
>Abortions are to blame for irresponsible lack of prevention methods.
Nope, people who are educated and smart enough to care about the consequences of their actions do care about shit like that.
>Anything with the word "white" in it
Irresponsible sexual behaviour is much more widespread amongst minorities you usually don't want to reproduce that much. The fertility rate imbalance would be tipped even more heavily in favour of minorities were bans on abortion implemented. In educated white circles not having kids is a decision ( I agree with that it's not a good one, but that's irrelevant now.). The percentage of middle-class women who had an abortion is still very low.

TL;DR, an abortion ban is nothing but a means to control women's lives.

>>2037067
>unwed women

prostitutes

>>2031991
> being anti abortion is anti woman
> research has found no gender differences between pro life and pro choice
Try harder 2bh

>>2037480
> research has found no gender differences between pro life and pro choice
I never implied there was a difference. Anti-abortion women still want to control other women's lives.

>>2031992
So? That's still a living being.

>>2037490
>not wanting innocent babies to get murdered is controlling other women's lives

How about you close your fucking legs and wait until marriage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDmwPGrZkYs

Ben Shapiro destroys pro-baby killers.

>>2037502
So? Its still not a person

>>2037505
Because fuck that

Scratch a women that is pro abortion and you'll find a person that had a abortion

>>2037505
I'm a man desu. Innocent babies getting murdered? A fetus is not equal to a baby. Am I to be prosecuted because I cum on tissues I throw into the bin?
>wait until marriage
People not choosing their partners carefully, something that is pretty difficult without seeing if they are sexually compatible, is a leading reason for shitty families and divorces.
>Traditionalist/religious women don't get a divorce
No they don't. Because they think it's wrong due to the culture they grew up in. Imposing penalties for a healthy sex life on women who think differently will yield different results,

>>2037546
>healthy sex life

They actually have studies and statistics out there saying that women with a lot of sexual partners are worse off than women that don't

>>2037546
>A fully formed human is not a human

abortionists are retarded and also evil

atheism is a mental illness

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>>2037553
>8 weeks old fetus
>fully formed human

>>2037519
Shapiro is based

>>2037520
A fetus is a person

>>2037565
You were born and are now alive, thanks to your mother not sticking a knife through your skull.

Where is the baby's rights?

Oh right, you're an atheist and don't believe that human life is precious.

Abortionists are sick and insane. There is no justification for killing babies.

Couldnt have sex with a woman that had abortions
Niggas died in there

>>2037565
Even a 5 years old kid is not fully formed
How is being at early stages of life a justification to kill someone?

>>2037576

I actually broke up with a girl because she had an abortion.

>>2037567
A person is a mind, a foetus has no mind

>>2037574
>Where is the baby's rights?
Not a person, no rights

>>2037553

There's no need to deny the humanity of the fetus. We are permitted to kill humans in select circumstances and abortion is one of the those circumstances historically.

>>2037580
Because they want to have sex with facing the consequences. They're degenerates.

Notice how it's always the sluts and feminists that are for abortion, whereas a normal, sane woman would never think of murdering her child.

>>2037591
>Because they want to have sex with facing the consequences
And they are entitled to

>>2037599
Am I entitled to rape your daughter and stick a knife through your chest?

I mean, it's what I want to do. You can't stand on my rights to murder and rape.

>>2037604
No, because my daughter is a person and your desires would cause her harm without her consent

>>2037574
I'm 100% sure I'm being baited now
>>2037580
5 years old kid
>high level of sel-awareness
>developed emotions
>widespread emotional ties to it on part of his surroundings
>tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars invested into it depending on family
>innumerable amount of time and work of family and professionals invested
fetus
>practicall none of the above

Abortion is not a happy occasion. I'd hate to have my wife have an abortion, too and I'd feel like shit about it. Tbh I'm not sure if I'd even want to get one and I'm still far from financially accomplished. However, there are people whose lives would be broken absolutely in two by an unwanted childbirth. In many cases killing a 8 weeks-old fetus means the life of several children in the future.

>>2037599
t. retarded anarchist

>>2037599
That's why birth control exist
If you're too dumb to use it, you deserve to be trapped with a kid

>>2037608
>God creates a body and soul
>you kill that body

You're an insane psychopath.

>>2037584
Similar issue here, I dated this bitch for two years and she flat out told me she would abort my children if I got her pregnant because "she wasn't ready". Dumped her after that, some people are just fucking vile.

>>2037615
if your god is so amazing why did he die?

>>2037608
Literal faggot
I chose 5 years old kid as an exemple because dude was talking about "not fully developed humans" (which applies until the 20s).

>high level of sel-awareness
>developed emotions
>widespread emotional ties to it on part of his surroundings
>tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars invested into it depending on family
>innumerable amount of time and work of family and professionals invested
None of these apply to a newborn
Care yo explain why they arent murderable, huge cretin?

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>>2037623
0/10

>>2037608
>Abortion is not a happy occasion. I'd hate to have my wife have an abortion, too and I'd feel like shit about it.

I'd hate to kill that dude I owe money to, I'd feel like shit
But hey, gotta save my personal living comfort

>>2037625
>none of these apply
But yes mate, they do for the most part

>>2037622
>Dumped her after that, some people are just fucking vile.
You mean yourself?

>>2037638
that dude you owe money to is a person

>>2037609
What?

>>2037614
Abortion is a form of birth control, not fundamentally different from any other

>>2037640
Me? I wasn't the one saying I would murder children.

>>2037625
>Care yo explain why they arent murderable, huge cretin?
Newborn's have agency because they exist as a humanbeing and with nurturing become developed, a fetus cannot feel pain or think, my cum can't feel pain or think, deciding that tissue with the potential to be a human is human opens up a world of retarded puritanical thought, explain how a clump of cells that developed from sperm hitting an egg and repeatedly splitting is any different from my cum.

>>2037649
Neither was she

>>2037639
No they don't, retard
Newborns have no self-awareness, no developped emotions, no huge amount time/dollars invested on them
Newborns are literally fetus that just came out of the womb

>>2037655
She outright did.

>>2037649
Fetus's are parasitic by their nature, they lead to human beings, they aren't human beings.

>>2037652
>the difference between a newborn and a fetus is smaller than between a fetus and semen

How to spot a retard

>>2037643
Preventing pregnancy is birth control.

Killing babies is murder.

>>2037649
You are the one dumping and calling other people "vile" based on what might simply be a conceptual disagreement on the part of someone who is actually trying to do what he perceives to be the right thing.

>>2037659
Thanks for solidifying my belief that abortion advocated are literal psychopaths.

>>2037642
So is that baby you want to kill to avoid taking care of

>humans at that stage of life arent real humans because it's financially convenient for me

Didnt we already have had this episode with race instead of life stage?

>>2037656
>no huge amount time/dollars invested on them
flat out wrong
>Newborns have no self-awareness
subject is up to debate
Also, wanted newborns are the subject of an infinite amount of emotional investment of their families.

>>2037666
>666
Nice try Satan. You have fun dating people who want to kill your offprings, it's just not something for me.

>>2037643
>Abortion is a form of birth control, not fundamentally different from any other

That's wrong, faggot
Life starts at fetilization
Preventing fertilization = birth control
Killing the new human you create after fertilization happened = murder

>>2037656
>Newborns are literally fetus that just came out of the womb
This isn't true, there are laws preventing abortion late in the pregnancies due to this, this isn't a situation where an arbitrary line is drawn between in the womb and out of the womb, Fetus's develop into babies who develop into children who develop into adults, the key is that the development from fetus to baby is the same development of organs used to sense and feel.

>>2037664

Then why is it not generally regarded as murder? Even St. Thomas morally permitted abortion until it was capable of moving its body.

>>2037658
You said she talked about abortion and abortion doesnt kill babies

>>2037664
>Preventing pregnancy is birth control.
Preventing birth is birth control, its right there in the name

Killing people is murder ,and foetuses arent people

>Condoms
>Pills
>Self-control
>Not being being a whore
There are many ways to avoid getting a child.

If you get pregnant, it's your fault for being an idiot.

Abortion destroys all accountability says you can do whatever you want without facing the consequences. It encourages sluts and whores.

>>2037674
>Life starts at fetilization
Eggs and sperm are alive, humanity kills trillions of them a day

>Preventing fertilization = birth control
The clue is in the name. Birth control is about controlling birth

>Killing the new human you create after fertilization happened = murder
Not a person, not murder

>>2037668
Yes Anon, morality has always had economical concepts at its roots. Always, everywhere.
This question with the race thing is different in that history has taught us that lack of racism is, in fact, economically more convenient than the opposite, so the wealthier and more educated parts of society don't like poeple claiming people of other races are not people.

>>2037652
>a fetus cannot feel pain or think
Fetus can feel pain
You're confusing with embryo
They can't think but newborns can't either

>my cum can't feel pain or think
You're cum isnt an human at early stage, it's reproductive cell
The new being is created at fertilization when male and female reproductive cells meet
That's basic biology ffs

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Holy shit pro-abortionists are fucking imbeciles.

>>2037668
>Didnt we already have had this episode with race instead of life stage?
People of different races and still people because they have organs that feed their brain information, they have the capacity of thought and feeling, without these two i'd argue that the person is no longer human.

>>2037685
>Abortion destroys all accountability says you can do whatever you want without facing the consequences. It encourages sluts and whores.
People are fully entitle to be sluts and whores without facing consequences so long as they don directly hurt other people

>>2037675
>this isn't a situation where an arbitrary line is drawn between in the womb and out of the womb

The arbitrary line is drawn sooner but it's still arbitrary

>>2037691
>Fetus can feel pain
No they cant. Feotus' are completely unaware until after birth. You can actually see the moment it happens if you've ever watched a kid be born

>>2037699
If the subject has the capability to sense then it is human, if it doesn't it is not human, or dead, i really do not see what is wrong with this reading.

>>2037688
>Eggs and sperm are alive, humanity kills trillions of them a day

Eggs and sperms are cells, huge retard
When they meet (fertilization) a new human being is created
Do I really need to teach you basic biology?

>>2037688
>Eggs and sperm are alive
Except they don't create unique genetic material until fertilization, dumbfuck. Did you fail elementary school biology?

>>2037692
>Pro abortionists argue with sociological and economical explanations, taking the time to explain what the difference between a fetus and a baby is
>Anti-abortionists argue with muh God and muh baby murder
>Holy shit pro-abortionists are fucking imbeciles

Your meme image sure proves your point

>>2037615
>a body is inherently valuable
>even if letting it exist would bring much more suffering than just killing it
>even if the soul just goes on to a better place/reincarnates/forgets about its death
>even if a shitload of people die daily and nobody steps up to prevent that

>>2037696
Doesn't murdering someone count as hurting them?

>>2037628
He's right you know

>>2037700
>Feotus' are completely unaware until after birth.

How to spot a cretin
Developpement is finished when birth occurs, faggot
And nervous system appears months before birth

>>2037713
>economical explanations
>it's okay to kill innocent because muh economics

Jesus Christ. If you don't want children, don't fuck, or at least use significant protection. It really is that simple.

I work in an abortion clinic and it's fucking thrilling, you guys are such fucking pussies, watching a fetus get sucked out then having the whore thank me makes me feel like a fucking god, banged one of my patients once.

>ITT: atheists showing how evil and psychopathic they are

>>2037706
>Eggs and sperms are cells, huge retard
And cells are alive

>When they meet (fertilization) a new human being is created
Two cells become one cell with merged DNA. The only difference between a fertilised egg and an unfertilised one is the fertilised one has more DNA

>>2037709
>Except they don't create unique genetic material until fertilization
Each egg and sperm has a different DNA code than the person who created it. Each one is literally unique

Also fertilisation does not involve the creation of any new genetic material at all, it just merges it together

>>2037722
>it's okay to kill innocents because they will have a terrible life of trial and tribulation with little hope and few chances in life
what a stupid reason, we should all have 5 kids and live off mould and grass

>>2037722
I do want children. And yes,
>>2037689

>>2037704
>If the subject has the capability to sense then it is human, if it doesn't it is not human

That's arbitrary as fuck though
Just because you decided that doesnt mean it make sense
Also, fetus are human, it's their specie
What we're discussing is whether they're a person or not, the fact they're human is undisputable (regardless of if it makes you feel guilty)

>>2037718
Absolutely it does, but a foetus isnt a person

>>2037721
This is correct, but awareness of any kind doesnt begin until birth. As I said, you can literally see it happen

>>2037732
Then don't have children. Abortion is like inviting a neighbor to your house and then killing him because you realized you don't like him.

>>2037736
>Also, fetus are human, it's their specie
So is a skin cell, doesnt make it a person

>>2037739
>>2037037

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This thread just cements my belief that atheism is a mental illness.

>i don't believe God exists therefore it's okay to murder people

The mentality of Stalin and Hitler.

>>2037736
>that's arbitrary as fuck though
yes it is, just as most laws to do with morality are, morality is relative and subjective however we create laws around them, very little is objective save obvious laws that cause damage to the overall structure of society, such as murder.

>>2037741
No, abortion is like killing an 8 weeks old congregation of cells that has nothing invested in it yet and can't feel or think

>>2037731
>And cells are alive
Sure, but they're not a human individual
Post-fertilization egg is
Won't recount all the process to you (just study biology) but basically the parent cells meet, a new DNA is created and the new human being starts its devellopment

>>2037748
Keep baiting you fucking nerd, i don't care, i ate an elephant fetus once, and i'd do the same for a human if it wasn't for some pesky "law" made by some other fuckin' nerd

>>2037748
please stop with your retarded baits

>>2037752
It's an unique human DNA. It's not a part of the mother's body.

>>2037757
*tips katana*

>>2037731
>Each egg and sperm has a different DNA code than the person who created it. Each one is literally unique

They didnt tell that in CSI Las Vegas
Maybe because it's fucking bullshit
Guess what, you can be DNA identified through your sperm

>>2037760
how the fuck does this change what I said? It's something that will one day grow into a human being. At the point fetuses get aborted, they are not.

>>2037742
Doubt a skin cell will develop into a human adult of you don't destroy it before it can
And neither will a sperm, so dont bring that shit
Fertilized eggs/Embryo/Fetus on the other hand will

>>2037767
Yes they are. A new entity is created at fertilization. Your semen or egg has the same DNA as you, not an unique one.

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>>2037757
>>2037758
0/10

You've already outed yourself to being insane mentally ill individuals.

No need to pretend now. You have no credibility.

>>2037753
>Sure, but they're not a human individual
So is a someone with no brain. They still arent a person

I do study biology. New DNA is not created, the sperms DNA and the eggs DNA just merge together

>>2037765
>Guess what, you can be DNA identified through your sperm
That is correct, just as your children can be identified as yours because they carry half your DNA. Your sperm carry half your DNA too

>>2037765
so you mean the murder weapon i used to kill your arguments can be identified when i cummed on it in victorius arrousal?

*throws away all my enlightened posts

>>2037771
I'm not the one claiming otherwise. It's a new entity, I don't deny that. But an entity that's not yet a human.

The only ones who defend abortion are feminists, sluts and sociopaths.

>>2037748
I'm atheist and antiabortion
Actually the pro-abortion people in this thread remind me a lot of religious people through their need to irrationally deny the biological reality of the fact life begins at fertilization and not at some arbitrarily chosen moment afterward

>>2037778
>New DNA is not created, the sperms DNA and the eggs DNA just merge together

Thus creating a new DNA
Are you retarded?
The only thing you study is women studies

>>2037724
I'm pro-life, but you're an absolute legend my dude.

>>2037770
Technically a skin cell can be induced to grow into a fully functional person, buts complicated as fuck

A fertilised egg on its own will also not grow into fully grown human. It too requires a large amount of external direct chemical intervention to function

A fertilised egg in a petri dish, even if supplied with food and warmth, will divide a few times and then die

>>2037794
Sure, so long as you understand nothing new is actually made.

And my original point stands, unfertilised eggs and sperm also have unique DNA codes that are different from the person who created them

>>2037797
>Technically a skin cell can be induced to grow into a fully functional person, buts complicated as fuck
please site your source, otherwise bullshit.

>>2037757
>>2037749
>>2037752
>>2037724
>>2037696
>>2037565

This is your brain on Marxism and the cancer of moral relativism.

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>>2037802
Of course a skin cell can't grow by itself, but it can replace sperm.

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>>2037815
>I literally degrade human beings as investments of resources and name economic growth as the basis of morality
>calls me a Marxist

Good job

>>2037802
http://genetics.thetech.org/original_news/news89

As far as im aware an adult has never been grown from an adult derived somatic cell, but it can be done in theory

>>2032822
This pretty much ends the entire argument, and yet as we can see from this thread, people refuse to accept this reality.

The "fact>feels" argument simply does not apply to law. Law is entirely subjective, entirely about "feels".
Take a look at something like the commerce clause in the constitution. It has been used extremely broadly and extremely narrowly. Neither of those interpretations is inherently right or wrong. They are simply how some people "feel" about it, and when they had the power to do so, they used the clause in the way they felt it should be.
Abortion is much the same, whichever "feel" is dominant at the time will get its way. This is a particularly controversial topic, with the way people feel about it being almost evenly split, at least in the US. As such, or policy on the subject will remain wish washy, and pretty hypocritical (Its allowed, but with exceptions).

Personally, I feel it is wrong, because I'd never want my own baby to be killed that way. But I don't really care much about what other people do. I can't really back this up with "facts", its just how I feel.

>>2032645
/Pol is pro abortion because it culls the undesirables. Even if the aryan race was made, much like modern upper middle class people, they probably wouldn't use it much. The idea is they'd have the foresight not to get pregnant until they're ready.
So even the whites that do it are simply considered trash that shouldn't reproduce anyway.

>>2037825
>I literally degrade human beings as investments of resources
Sounds about right. Marxists will never admit that this is what they believe.

>>2037853
>everything I dont like is marxist

>>2037847
>This pretty much ends the entire argument

It's a good point but it doesn't end the argument at all.

>>2037847
>Personally, I feel it is wrong, because I'd never want my own baby to be killed that way. But I don't really care much about what other people do.

Reminder that regardless of what you want, a woman can kill your baby that way
Fathers have no say

>>2037860
Cultural Marxism's goal is to undermine western civilization and everything we stood for.

Communism is a godless, totalitarian shit ideology.

>>2037853
I see now that you are the same shit baiter that posted >>2037692 >>2037775 and >>2037748

>>2037861
Effectively it does. I can say I feel its wrong, someone else can say they feel its right. On a topic like this, its rare to change minds, even with evidence backing up your claim.

The arguments end up becoming circular and you get no where.

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>>2037871
0/10, you're not even trying

>>2037869
>everything I dont like is marxism

>>2037874
You are partially right, but through many, many hours of seemingly pointless debate that spans far more than a single thread, a group *might* change the mind of an individual. It's happening all the time. It's not frequent, but not impossible, either. People do change opinions over time.

>>2037886
My own opinion evolved over time from the edgy "Kill all babies, I hate them" to where I'd at least care about my own baby.
But that wasn't because of anyone who was adamantly pro-life. I think most people who do change their position don't do so from arguments like this.
Its more of a process of growing up in general.

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>>2037871
dumb nigger

>>2037847
> Take a look at something like the commerce clause in the constitution. It has been used extremely broadly and extremely narrowly.

Its actually very easy to localize the meaning of the commerce clause with objective methods, given that we have access to dictionaries from 1789 and a record of the circumstances that brought it on. It very obviously does not give power to regulate agriculture oranufacture within one state, only the exchanges between them.

The court has eviscerated the text. The court now asks "does this activity effect interstate commerce?" instead of "is this interstate commerce?"


But this has nothing to do with abortion.

>>2037895
you are just so invested in shitposting that you use different devices
fuck off

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>>2037906
>you are just so invested in shitposting that you use different devices
I'm not that autistic.

>>2037917
prove it

>>2037920
how can I do that?

>>2037924
you can't because you ARE an autistic shitposting baiting faggot

>>2037928
If you don't mind me asking... How does it feel to be so paranoid/delusional that you literally won't believe things after seeing undeniable proof because it comforts you more to believe the improbable scenario that is most definitely not true. I made one post and got accused of being a different anon. How do you function in society?

>>2037899
>Looking at dictionary definition to determine what the founders meant for the clause
I'll assume you majored in stem. This is not how law or the constitution works.
The commerce clause, much like other aspects of the constitution, was vague on purpose. It was design to be interpreted differently. It did not have one single meaning.
Your like those idiots that treat the founders words as divine. They were flawed people like everyone else, and knew that they needed a broad constitution that could change with the times.

There is no objective truth to this. Law is not science or math.

>>2037939
> this >>2037895
>undeniable PROOF

christ you are a goldmine for every autistic pseudochurch moneysink organisation there is

>>2037928
Shut up you dirty tranny.

>>2033087
only low test """people""" wants to ban guns

>>2031970
abortion is the equivalent of men running around executing 1 person per month because they're too incompetent to handle a weapon, where women who do abortions are too incompetent to handle their body