Why does the guy on the left earn less than the guy on the right?

>>2019812
because any able bodies human can do what he does and not anyone can do what the other guy does.

>>2019812
In Australia he would likely be making twice as much

The majority of middle aged white collar workers here probably make 90k a year or so while lots of entry level tradies make twice that

>>2019821
No they fucking can't? I'd like to see you build a house

>>2019812
guy on right sucked off his pledgemaster in college.

guy on the right learned you that by "managing" you earn twice as much money for half as much work.

Because the guy on the right tells him unions are an evil communist plot while calling him racist when he complains about millions of Mexicans undercutting his wages.

>>2019837
And how is that fair? It isn't

And that's why we need an alternative, Marx provided us one

Because someone is willing to pay the guy on the right twice as much for what he can do.

>>2019843

>Marx
>not Kropotkin

Kys

>>2019830
Ok, give me the same amount of training as him and I will. When you slack off and end up in a shitty job then you just got what you deserved.

>>2019843

Everybody just killing themselves is also an alternative.

>>2019852
Not everyone doing a minimum wage job ended there because of their own fault

And not everyone earning a shitton achieved that because of hard work

Actually, the most important factor is luck and circumstances

>>2019867
And I would agree with providing everyone with equal opportunity to achieve their goals but that doesn't mean you should get the same reward for completing completely different types of work, one requiring far more specialization and skill.

>>2019867
>Actually, the most important factor is luck and circumstances

Prove it.

>>2019812
The guy on the right is supposed to be who? Lawyer? Corporate CEO? Any faggot can put on a suit.

>>2019915
Burden of proof is actually on you

>>2019812
Because, in spite of America having been known for embracing "the little guy", we've experienced a total shift in those values:

Today we often see a general disdain for the working class, and an admiration for the college educated classes. We see that today with everybody and their brother attending college these days because we all want to be the guy on the right. The thing is we can't all be the guy on the right. Having a low regard for those that work with their hands, keeps wages low, in spite of it being physically tougher and still often mentally demanding.

I've read this problem doesn't really exist in other countries where trade schools are more common and less "shameful" to attend.

>>2019843
Tell me why life has to be fair.

>>2019867
Do you humanities cucks actually believe that constructors or miners are on minimum wage? They very likely earn more money than you. Talk about being detached from reality.

>>2019969
You would want life to be fair if you were in a bad position

>>2019812
why doesn't the guy on the left save up his money so he can go to school and end up being the guy on the right.

>>2019984
>going to school in your 40s
he will be bullied you know

>>2019812
Because he's less intelligent

>>2019990
>he will be bullied you know
no he won't

t. college student with middle aged classmates

>>2019812

Because everyone who is not a paraplegic can hammer a nail, or at most learn how te jam in a set of nails. Not everyone wants to go to the tedious years of learning boring shit like law, and not everyone is capable either. It deserves to be rewarded based on the sense of investment put in - I studied medicine for six years and am not even finished yet, and I learned how to weld in a month during this summer. Academic competence and ability to master a trade are vastly different, and only the lowest of plebs deny this.

>>2019852
Same thing could be said about the man on the right.

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Why does the guy on the left earn more than the guy on the right?

>>2019812
Depends what the guy on the right does.

I wear a suit and tie to work sometimes and I work in a call centre for minimum wage like a Pajeet.

>>2019821
Construction work is a skill. Especially for tradies like that guy appears to be.

It's not just mindlessly picking things up and putting them back down somewhere else.

>>2019970
kek where? The only places where laborers and trades guys make a "good" living are in major cities with unions that have the city by the balls.

>>2019812
What are you talking about? Skilled tradesmen tend to earn more than white collar workers. At least, they do here in Australia.

>>2019812
>he isn't NEET

>>2020020
>be american
>be working class
>be anti union
kek

>>2020024
>>2019822
>Australia
Australia isn't exactly typical.

Hence why all the tradies from here in Ireland fuck off over there at first opportunity.

>>2019966
>we've experienced a total shift in those values

Did we? When in history did we valued manual labourers over inteligentsia?

>>2020020
Starting salary for a coal miner in WV is 60k.

>>2019990

>teenagers are going to bully a 40 year old guy

Lel

>a guy refusing to massively improve his life, based on what other people might think of him

Double lel

>>2020050
When intellectuals took over socialist movements.

>>2020057
>teenagers are going to bully a 40 year old guy
Teenagers are cruel.

>>2020020
Not if you're a skilled laborer. Most journeyman tradesman make between 30 and 40 dollars an hour. Specialized people like crane operators usually make six figures. Even flaggers (the people who hold signs telling when to stop during construction) usually make at least 20 dollars an hours. Those figures might vary somewhat in different parts of the country, but skilled work always pays a decent living wage. The only people who get paid shit are unskilled laborers, or people who bought into the "unions are bad" mentality and work for shitty employers who they let treat them like crap.

>>2020027
That's a pro union post us ya dingus

>>2020020
In the cities they just hire illegals who do it for cash, do it for ALOT less than union workers, and build it up quicker. Whereas unionized construction companies take their sweet fucking time (a unionized worker taking a whole day to paint two doors is not unheard of), cost ludicrous amounts of money and are can just be straight up cancerous to work with.
On the other hand they care about workers, pay well, and offer great benefits to their workers as opposed to the companies that hire illegals. So it sort of balances out

>>2020020
Like I said, detached from reality.

>>2020067
I think he was commenting on the American working class being retarded and believing in trickle down and the job creators meme.

>>2020075
American working class was smart enough not to vote for a woman who wanted their jobs shipped abroad.

>>2020065
>Specialized people like crane operators usually make six figures.
I'm pretty sure it's quite literally impossible to be a crane operator in the US without being in a union. Elevator guys too.

>>2020085
But it's something you can do anywhere, and the pay is consistent. Anon I responded to said the only places skilled laborers can making a livable wage is in major cities, and that's false.

>>2020025
I have kids, so that's not an option.

>>2020081
They were also dumb enough to vote for a guy that supports right to work.

>>2020081
No, they voted for a businessman who has a record of trying to skip out on paying his workers, treating his employees like shit, hiring illegals, and has lived his entire life in a world that values profit above all else.

Thinking Donald Trump is going to do anything for labor in the US is beyond stupid. He comes from the same generation and environment as the same people that shipped those jobs abroad in the first place, and has lived according to the same principles that let them do it.

>>2020002
You do know that construction requires more that just knowing how to use a hammer
And taking to account the on on the right works 10 or 12 Hours a day and the one on the left works some 8 it all evens out

>>2020094
If you have kids you're in a better position than anyone to be a NEET.

Parents on welfare, especially parents with multiple kids, can be supported relatively comfortably for life. At least here in the UK

>>2019812
Who says he does? Guy on the left could be making $500,000 running his own building company, and the guy on the right could be completely and utterly bankrupt.

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Funnily enough the Democrats are the same Democrats as in the 1850s, they want to keep their slaves around to reduce labor costs. It's not even a racial thing for them, it's purely economics, the fucking lengths they will go to defend illegal immigration are comical.

>>2020064
Depends. Friends of mine + me uncle went to school in their mid 20', 30's. You get kinda separated from the rest but bullying is an overstatement. Same with the army (i am 27 and most were 18) etc etc. Having conmon sense will save you in many situations :)

>>2020060
So since the socialist movement begun its existence?

>>2020106
I don't live in a nanny state. Besides, how much welfare can a NEET get? Must be a fucking pittance.

>>2020111
>Democrats are the same Democrats as in the 1850s
LBJ would like a word with you.

>>2020117
NEETs don't get much.

Parent NEETs get a shitload. Mostly in the form of automatic free housing and generous (to say the least) assistance with finances aside from the obvious NEETbux.

>>2020122
Pretty sure he endorsed Hillary yeah.

>>2020117
Depends on how manu kinda of wealfare are you on
Were i live wealfare is criminaly low bu t we are also one of the poorest States in the western world

>>2020147
Auto-correct is so fun

>>2020147
Poortugal?

>>2020068
>Whereas unionized construction companies take their sweet fucking time (a unionized worker taking a whole day to paint two doors is not unheard of), cost ludicrous amounts of money and are can just be straight up cancerous to work with.
I hate this meme. Union guys work slow and steady but chew people out for being a lazy pos. Non union Messicans work at the speed of the light when the boss is around but when his back is turned conspire to work slower and "juice" a job for hours.

Both usually take a lot of pride in their work and try to do a good job.

t. worked both

>>2020106
this applies for ausfags as well

>>2020117
in some european countries you can live independently off it, just be prepared to live pretty frugally, though it is possible to survive without working a day in your life.

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>>2020124
so u b sayin' all I have to do is get a girl pregnant?

>>2020169
It has to be consensual

>>2020169
Yeah.

It's not uncommon for people to have babies just for the bennies in countries like this.

>>2020169
in australia it's called the baby bonus, getting paid to reproduce

>>2020153
Indeed
Poor but happy

>>2020188
are you NEET?

>fair

>>2020183
>getting paid to perform a basic human function
Where did humaninity go so wrong

>>2020201
Why does the cuckold on the left not defend his property, but instead defends the property of his master on the right, when the only thing the man on the right can offer in exchange is slips of paper, which only hold value because the man on the left believes them to have value in exchange for the property which was initially his own?

>>2019812
he doesn't, the guy on the left is a unionized elevator repairman while the guy on the right is a realtor

>>2020210
talk some sense

>>2020194
No im 20 i hope i wont be NEET for a while
Plus here in the land of the cod we dont exacly have NEET per say its more a couple a mediocre social benifits like that state paying for your kids school meals and books but not mutch more then that

>>2020210
Because the majority of people represented by the left of OP's pic simply want to be subordinate to others. As you rightly point out they hold the power to overturn the system, they just reject this power either consciously or by being ignorant of it.

>>2020050
Being college educated and being a marketing drone or something along those lines isn't exactly qualification to be intelligentsia.

>>2020210
probably because the cuckold has a senpai that he is trying to feed and is happy to have some work

because someone wants to pay the guy on the right more?

>>2020259
Namely the guy on the right himself?

>>2020223
Proles are ignorant of their power, but it's not their fault. The world order indoctrinates people to think that the current world order is the only one that can possibly be

>>2020229
Don't forget my senpai's son.

>>2020261

he is accountable to investors and advisory boards who may veto his salary.

>>2020263
I know their ignorance isn't their fault.

What is their fault I'm saying is that proles, like the majority of people, actively seek subservience. This isn't just for economics, but really everything. People all too eagerly forsake their own selves.

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>>2020282
>>2020263

>>2020267
But he is the shareholder.

>>2020285
this is what heaven truly looks like plebs
>>2020286
lol

>>2020282
Not even trying to be edgy but I think that's why trump won. People don't want to think critically to help themselevs, they want to trust in someone else to do everything for them

>>2020292
this is why any president wins dolt

>>2020286

Then he makes enough people happy by selling them what they want to pay himself his enormous salary.

This thread is pretty euphoric

>>2020300
>trades inside
>pumps and dumps
heh

>>2020292
That's why any form of government designed to empower the people will eventually degenerate into tyranny. At this point worldwide democracy is little more than naked demagoguery.

>>2020296
Naturally, hence why universal democracy is a farce.

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>>2020306
Don't try and shame, please and thanks.

Shame is a very nasty emotion.

>>2020313
I will shame thank-you

>>2019812
Mr Rosenwitz,

I'm Proletariat.

Why does rights employer pay more than lefts?

>building a house is complex now

>>2020334
Because he is his son.

>>2019812
I doubt they earn much more than eachother. They're just stock photo models.

>>2020309
We are in agreement. Knowing this can be used to justify some nasty things though.

>>2020335
Are you saying it's not?

Also seriously this thread. Plumbers, electricians, etc pull in 80k easily, it's not like they're earning minimum wage.

>>2020065

people vastly overrated the money skilled labor makes. it is usually 20 to 25 an hour for guys with years of experience, and 13 an hour starting out.btw, the reason they work 12 hours plus is because they dont make shit in the 8 hours that they work so have to work overtime.if you own the business, you can make good money, but almost no one does or can start and maintain a business. labour fucking sucks dick.

>>2020371
>what are miners

>>2020371
>.if you own the business, you can make good money, but almost no one does or can start and maintain a business. labour fucking sucks dick.
What's this? If you own capital you can keep the full product of your labor, but if you work for someone they take the surplus product as profit? Where can I learn more about this?

>>2020373
African diamond miners or American coal miners?

>>2020389
Either aren't poor people by any measure.

>>2020371
>people vastly overrated the money skilled labor makes
I was giving numbers from a union my dad works for, and that almost apprenticed with a few years ago. Helpers (unskilled in at the trade, just there to carry shit) made 18 an hour, apprentices made 22, and pay went up from there pretty quickly, depending on where you worked and your level of experience. Journeymen usually made 30 to 40 an hour. From talking to people from other trades, pay was pretty much the same for everyone in the area.

That's bound to fluctuate with area in general, but I didn't pull those numbers out of my ass. I could see someone in New Mexico or Kentucky making less, but in general, pay is good enough to make a good, living wage in skilled trades. Of course, running a successful business will pay more, but most people don't because it's a risky hassle, and pretty hard to even attempt.

>>2020395
>muh child wage slave labor making less than $1 a day
>epa is taking muh jerbs

>>2020002
> I learned how to weld in a month this summer
Hello, Dunning - Kruger called, it's for you.

>>2020018
u tard. It takes years of hard work and education to become the guy in the suit. The construction workers arent the ones who design and engineer a building. they're just expendable worker drones.

>>2020418
Huh?

>>2020418
>child labor
>less than a dollar a day
That's not South Africa. More like Sierra Leone or some shit.

>>2020432
>south africa is the only country in africa

>>2019812
Right = Trade ~70k average
Left = White collar ~60K average

>>2020443
I thought you said South Africa for some reason, my bad.

I understand the elitism if you're in STEM or medicine but fucking history and psychology grads trying to act like they're above tradies is pure laff

>>2020459
NEET is the way to go.

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>>2019812
Why does the guy on the right earn more than the guys on the left combined?

>>2020459
I'm STEM tho

>>2020472
because he's a model

>>2020472
this

check your white male privilege

>>2020472
Because >>2020111

Democrat illegal immigrant slave labor

>>2020371
of course you must also factor in other things such as living expenses in the labourers area, which can contribute to how well a person can live off of certain wages.
like if you live in the middle of Toronto, Vancouver or NYC, a 25$/hr wage is enough to get you a cardboard shack under an overpass.
But that same wage in say, a place like Moosejaw, or Osoyoos is enough for a decent living.

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>I don't understand economics

kys

>>2020065
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Flagger/Hourly_Rate

>>2019812

He doesn't always. But to answer your question, the right is being paid to take responsibility.

>>2020555
that would be crusader kings

>>2020555
>> what is Spec Ops: The Line

>>2019812

what makes you so sure he does?

I have a friend at a white collar desk job, he has to wear a collared shirt and tie every day.

I have no dress code where I work, I wear a tattered hoodie and torn cargo pants. My field, ofc requires special skills and training, whereas his does not.

any literate oaf can do paperwork at a desk.

not everyone can remember the water and light dynamics of 1000's of species of plant.

you shouldn't assume someone is poor because of their dress. it's dangerous.

there's a lady riding around town here on a bicycle, looks homeless, but she's filthy stinking rich.

>>2022310
it's immediately obvious you're the bad guy though and you're not even allowed to do things differently

>>2022364

and I forgot to mention I make almost 3x what he does.

>>2022364
what is your job?

>>2020001
> t. college student

This explain a lot of things

>>2020555
How retarded do you have to be, in what fucking way is Marx a villain.

Marx is in no way responsible for Leninism or Stalinism.

>>2019958
I'm guessing you aren't in law school

>>2020429
"hard work" and "education"

>>2022943
What does that have to do with the law?

>>2019969
Maybe not "fair', but for a proper meritocracy people need to learn to deal with the consequences of their actions, and there should be equality of opportunity and properly rewarding hard work over lax equality of outcome, where those who do they're best are stifled and are given the same thing as nothing at all

>>2020009
Because that's Batman with his butler Alfred

>>2022934
That is like saying that Nietzsche wasn't partly responsible for the Nazis.
They both should have foresaw the damage they could unleash just by using words!

>>2022988
>properly rewarding hard work

There is no reason hard work should be rewarded if it produces little or nothing of value.

>>2023014
>That is like saying that Nietzsche wasn't partly responsible for the Nazis

Honestly, I think you are the only one who thinks this

>>2023117
>. Giving them an incentive to work hard again

The incentive to work hard is built in by the fact that producing valuable things tends to be difficult. Rewarding it separately is perverse. Work is not an inherently good thing that we should want more of it for its own sake - quite the opposite!

>>2022988
*as those who did
>>2023023
>There is no reason hard work should be rewarded if it produces little or nothing of value.
But there is. Giving them an incentive to work hard again. What about Payment? Promotions? Why not reward them in proportion to their work and what value that work has. Isn't that part of what a meritocracy does as well? I was at least referring to that. I kind of think we're talking past each other here. What kind of work are you referring to when you say it produces little to nothing of value? If it was work that someone worked hard on but was bullshit a meritocracy wouldn't reward it would it?

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>>2022934
>Marx is in no way responsible for Leninism or Stalinism.

>>2023127
>>2023131
>The incentive to work hard is built in by the fact that producing valuable things tends to be difficult. Rewarding it separately is perverse.
So hard work is it's own reward
>Rewarding it separately is perverse.
>Work is not an inherently good thing that we should want more of it for its own sake - quite the opposite!
What if you're doing that work for a reason, people/society and it's no longer for it's own sake

>>2023214

I don't really follow you. Are we agreeing that hard work shouldn't be rewarded or not?

>>2023190
Its like blaming Jesus for the Spanish Inquisition....

>>2019990
What fucking college kid is gonna bully a 40 year old in shape construction worker?

>>2019812
Its been that way since the dawn of civilization. Even in ancient cultures scribes earned more and had better social standing than laborers.

>>2023238
>Its like blaming Jesus for the Spanish Inquisition....
Jesus should have understood. But really he didn't write the Bible so...

>>2023238
Marx called for genocide and violence frequently. Jesus didnt even write the bible

>>2019812
>implying
some blue collar guys are loaded

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>>2019812
Because the job on the right pays more than the job on the left.

Why?

Because whoever is in control of the payroll is willing to pay the guy on the right more than the guy on the left.

Why?

Because it's harder to find people capable of doing what the guy on the right does than it is to find people that can do what the guy on the left does.

See how that works, child?

ITT: Thinly veiled communism shills

>>2023227
I was saying hard work should at least be 'rewarded" at least equivalently for the work being done, a proper meritocracy would. especially if done for society or a person. The rewards given for work would not just be given to be given and the work would just not be done for it's own sake. Furthermore, rewards differentiates those who do work and apply themselves vs. those that don't and shows an appreciation and acknowledgement of their effort

>>2023596
>I was saying hard work should at least be 'rewarded" at least equivalently for the work being done

By "work being done" you mean the product of the work, rather than the actual labor? Then you're not rewarding hard work, you're just buying a product.

But it's still not really clear what you're saying. If you make ten [product] and it takes you an hour, and I also make ten [product] but I suck at it so it takes me ten hours, should I be paid ten times what you are?

>>2023026

I assume by Nietzsche he means Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche and not based Freidrich.

>>2023526
>it's harder to find people capable of doing the riht guy's job
I wouldn't go that far, the actual challenge is to become the right guy, not just be the right guy.
Not everyone has the same opportunities and recourses to begin with.

Trying to be a know-it-all is tolerable when you at least attempt to cover up te actual conditions.

>>2023596
Hard work =/= profitable or valuable work

>>2019812
Taleb put it well:

Someone like a plumber works in the physical realm. They are bottlenecked by the fact that they can only fix one unit of plumbing at a time. Meanwhile a banker or whatever deals with assets that exist in abstract or virtual space, there are no limits on the volume because all that exists is the digital representation that can be effortlessly multiplied, transferred and so on.

>>2023796

Then again, a plumber can start a company that hires a thousand plumbers, thus fixing a thousand sinks at a time.

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I've come to the conclusion that the difference in pay depends on how much damage you can cause if you really fuck up, measured in money.

Let's say the guy on the left is a carpenter and fucks up the building project he's involved in. The maximum damage is they have to tear one house down and start over again.

Let's say the guy on the right is a high level financial manager and he fucks up the monetary planning of his company. The maximum damage is the company goes bankrupt, everybody loses their job and everybody profiting from the company makes a severe loss.

The higher the risk associated with your failure, the more you get paid.

Not saying that's a good thing, only it would explain our current system. What this means is that people who should be paid a lot because they do a horrible job with extremely positive effects to society, like nurses, get paid way less than they ought to.

>>2019812
there's less demand for the left, or he's at least been convinced of that and accepted less pay, or he's a slave

>>2019812

>guy on the left-went to a trade school costing a total of $2000. Started out making 40K a year at the age of 20. After working a few years, earns $60K a year not even counting overtime pay

>guy on the right-went to college for $100K, in brutal student debt, worked an unpaid internship until he was 22, got lucky and now works a real job getting 20K a year, most of it going to pay off his student debt

>>2023821
>depends
I would say "is proportional to" instead of implying a causal relation, but that's a good way to measure it now that I think about it.

>>2019812
I'm interested in what exactly the position of the guy on the left is.
If the left guy is some sort of overseer, he's is making mad cash, the guys in charge of building are well paid.
Not Jose with a hammer.

The guy on the right, what is he? A cubicle paper-pusher, or head of business?

>>2023818
The money he'd make as the head of the company would be related to the limitless virtual realm, regardless of whether he still performed plumbing between managerial duties.

>>2023860
And the guy on the right's money can evaporate on one bad trading day.

>>2023865
Well obviously, since the nature of virtual assets makes it possible. That's why smart people in the financial industry occupy positions where they gamble on someone else's assets and get their payments from a party that has its own separate cash reserves not risked on the deals.

>>2023889

How many plumbers have you ever heard of who jump out of their office windows?

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>>2019812
>doing any of this when you can coast through life drawing porn

>>2020005
Executives need skills that can't be truly taught like leadership. In addition, executives geberatell more value for the company through their decisions than the laborer. How would the worker make money without a contract? The executive allows the worker to find ways to use their skills that would be very difficult to reproduce with a large body of workers without a hierarchy.

>>2024001
geberatell?
>Samsung autocorrect
*generate

>>2019812
Who's the person paying them?