Was he a hero?

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>>2002169
He was AN hero

>>2002169
There are no heroes among men

>>2002169
hero at lived long enough to see himself become a villain and a villain who lived long enough to see himself become a hero

>>2002169
He's a hero to everyone except Cubans

>>2002169
He literally was never even really a communist, he was just kind of cornered into pretending to be one by the retarded Americans embargoing Cuba on behalf of the butthurt expats in Miami.

Read some biography about his pre-1960s days, it paints a clear picture.

>son of a wealthy landowner, spoiled and classist to the bone
>Jesuit upbringing
>member of Eduardo Chibas' Orthodox Party which was nationalist and staunchly anti-communist
>literally not a single piece of evidence he was a Marxist before the embargo
>the Communist party of Cuba literally thought he's a CIA agent upon him taking power

Guevara and Raul were indeed communists, but not Fidel.

>>2002169
No.
He was a superhero

>>2002274
Only idiots like Herbert Matthews could seriously believe Fidel Castro was not a communist.

It's like Brooks Atkinson saying that Mao Zedong was not really a commie, just an agrarian social reformer. Or Walter Durantyi saying there was no famine in the Soviet Union during the early 1930s.

>>2002392
idk apparently the whole "Fidel was forced to be a communist by the USSR" conspiracy theory is super popular among cuban diaspora

>>2002169
well he overthrew batista

>>2002169
At the time of his revolution he was. Batista was corrupt and the Cuban state was a safehaven for criminals. The people lived in abject poverty and mobsters ruled the cities. The American Mafia even had a strong presence in pre-revolution Cuba. The entire time the US government was not only turning a blind eye to this behavior but condoning it.

Castro was really a consequence of American meddling in the Cuban state and support of a corrupt Banana Republic and a sadistic dictator.

Whether or not Castro was a hero is hard to say. The Cuban people were certainly suffering before him and they have certainly suffered since his revolution. At the time however, I believe he was the best option they had. Batista was truly worse.

He would have been if his ideology wasn't retarded

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Ha. The communist dictator of a Cuba died on Pinochet's birthday.

He destroy a country that was as wealthy as Austria and he turned it into a shithole. Basically the average leftist hero

>>2002392
This isn't an argument.

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>>2003135

>>2002583
Pinochet is dead tho

>>2002583
Pinochet was not only corrupt but also literally a CIA asset.
There is no "or" here, believe it or not there are people who don't like either.

>>2002169
No
He was the worst tumor ever suffered here in Latin America.

>>2002169
I hate communists and hate communism. I hate the Sovietunion, China, best Korea. But I like Fidel. I really liked Fidel Castro

>>2003204
>but also literally a CIA asset.
Oh noes

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>>2002169
Meh. There's pros and cons about him.

Much better then previous Cuban dicktator though.

>>2002174
Who do you think was responsible for the tragedy desu?

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>>2002583
He could have never rose to power without united states helping his ass.

Fidel Castro lead the revolution with the support of the peasants, workers, and students.

>>2003233
the people of cuba would have a diferent oppinion

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>>2003135
Wonder who's behind the post?

>>2003261
Most Cubans didn't like Fidel, m8

That's just counting Cuban citizens that are actually polled. Cubans that hated him the most moved to America

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>>2003262
I have a question, why do Communists hate the NAP when it, in itself, is a leftist idea?

>>2003258
>Gets 44% of the vote
>"Hated"
This picture forgets the fact that he helped turned Chile into the powerhouse of South America

>>2003261
Which people? The ones who fled for a better life in the US thanks to him or the ones who even today does not know what a mobile phone is?

>>2003261
>the people of cuba would have a diferent oppinion
Not really.Half of the country left and Cuba has become a nigger riden country.
>>2003262
>Le ignore facts and post dumb image.
Why is leftypol so toxic? At least pol posts meme graphics

>>2002403
The job of his brother Raul was literally to make him more Communist friendly.

Which is kind of the unsaid understanding among Cubans no matter how much they dislike Fidel, at least he's not Raul.

What's been surprising is how moderate Raul has been since he took power.

Anyway, Fidel was a complex person and the situation in Cuba is equally complex but I hope Trump doesn't decide to throw away all the progress we've made in normalizing relations.

>>2003278
Source for Batista's Cuba being wealthy as Austria.

He was a hero who lived long enough to become a villain, and then another 60 years.

He was an antihero.

>Prior to the Cuban Revolution, Cuba was one of the most advanced and successful countries in Latin America.[16] The country compared favorably with Spain and Portugal on socioeconomic measures. By the 1950s Cuba was as rich per capita as Italy was and richer than Japan. Its income per capita in 1929 was reportedly 41% of the US, thus higher than in Mississippi and South Carolina.
VIVA LA REBOLUSIÓN

>>2003312
ROBOlución you mean

>>2003312
American trade and tourism was the only thing keeping that going though.

He BTFO the USA and lived to tell of it.

Hero or no he's very impressive.

>>2003328
>yu fockin yankis ar steeleeng my jerbs
>BTFO the USA

>>2003330
>Be communist state right in the USA's backyard
>The USA is perpetually mad about your very existence until like last year.
>Numerous attempts to get the Cuba to convert to capitalism.
>Is pretty much the last, Marxist-Leninist planned economy on the planet anyway.

I'd say the USA got BTFO.

>>2003275
>Better life
Because a life without coca-cola isn't worth living right?

>>2003337
>last year

I'd say in the 80's, once Cuba started falling behind everyone in terms of technology and became a forgotten shithole island.

>>2003312

That's because by the 1950s Europe was still piling up the ruins left by WWII. So saying Cuba, like Paraguay or Congo, was at the level of war devastated euro countries isn't a very exciting panorama.

Cuba was a US puppet state in the form of a banana republic run by a shitty dictator and an oligarchic elite of corrupt bastards to forwards theirs and their US masters interests while the general population was living like shit. That's why Castro won, cause the general population either didn't move a finger to support Batista&the bastards (all of whom fled to Florida after getting buttfucked by Fidel and Che, to keep fucking Cuban and the cuban people from a distance, with the back up of their US master, and founded there the core of what would be the so called Cuban """"""Democratic""""""" opposition), or sided with the Revolution.

>>2003346
That the US was still more than a bit mad about.

>>2003325
And none of that money reached the cuban people in any reasonable numbers.
The real reason why Castro has been so popular in Cubo were the old peope who knew what life was like before the revolution.
These days most of them are dead so it's no wonder that the younger generations want some change.

>>2003278
>and Cuba has become a nigger riden country

Black people have been in Cuba since its inception, your post doesn't make any sense

There are no herpes in history.

>>2003429
Heroes ***** dammit

>>2003429
Im pretty sure there are. It is a medical, scientific, fact.

>>2002274

literally ideology

>>2003278

we don't bow to your facts

Fidel was a nationalist first and foremost. He was a Marxist due to che and Co's influence and a desire to troll America. He was inspired by marti, not some fucking Russians

I'm very conflicted about him.

>Positive
- liberated the country from a dictator that was backed by a foreign government
- removed extreme poverty
- successfully stood up to the most powerful nation in the world
- kept a socialist state, something inherently unstable, running for longer than most others
- survived gazillion of assassination attempts

>Negative
- became a brutal dictator himself
- encouraged Soviets to end all life on the planet in total nuclear holocaust
- put his principles over the welfare of his population

He was a hero to his cause, but a simple good/bad dichotomy doesn't work here.

>>2003516
thanks ano for being actually apolitical

>>2003337
>Propped u by soviet money
>Later propped up by latin american funds
I hope, sincerely as a latin american, that you fucking die along with Castro.

>>2003643
Stay mad.

>>2003645
>Hehehe ny shithole is still going!
>W-what? How dare you point out that they use stolen public funds that crooked governments from Latin America send them!
>How dare you point out that they were once funded by soviets!
>Waaah my dictatorship was stable by itself, waaah big daddy Castro save me
Communists are pathetic authoritarian scum.

>>2003653
>You are literally THIS mad.
lol

Not to mention did I say Cuba was great or that Castro BTFO the USA?

>>2003661
>He BTFO of the USA
>By doing nothing but what was expected of him and not really hindering the USA at all
It's like saying a tiny stain in your shirt is annoying, and that it's the stain's fault and not the assholes that keep throwing paint at it to keep it there.

You're truly pathetic.

>>2003668
You're truly mad.

>>2002169
Yes. He fought for his dreams.

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>>2003674

>>2003680
>Praise Fidel's masterful skill at making America mad
>y-you're a commie
lol

>>2003377
>Black people have been in Cuba since its inception, your post doesn't make any sense
They were never the majority until Fidel chimped out and most wites left
>>2003347
Cuba was wealthier than some US states.They had the most advanced medicine program in the world and the biggest ownership of TV's per capita in the world.Castro and Che were dumb mongs

>>2003686
>Hehehe u mad
>Bwaah Fidel made America mad
If anything Fidel was useful in ramping up the fear of communism which played into the gringos' gameplan.

>/his/ in charge of thinkih

>>2003351
>The real reason why Castro has been so popular in Cubo were the old peope who knew what life was like before the revolution.
He wasn't.Only dumb niggers like Castro.Most cubans rely on money from the diaspora to survive

>>2003698
Which only worked because they were mad.

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>>2003705
Repeating the same string of words proves you have nothing else to say which will back them up.

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Imagine if an American president sent troops to fight for a regime that ended up being responsible for the deaths of 500.000 people and the starvation of millions. We wouldn't be hearing the end of it.

That's what Fidel Castro did with Mengistu and the Derg regime in Ethiopia (not to mention the support he gave to other communist dictators in Africa, like Agostinho Neto, Francisco Macias Nguema, Samora Machel etc). But not a single person seems to remember, not a single person seems to comment on it regarding their avaliation of Fidel's legacy.

Impressive. This is the power of cultural hegemony.

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>>2002169

>cubans in Miami currently partying in the streets to celebrate this mans death

>fart smelling upper middle class socialist mourning him

really made me think

>>2003732
americans nuked two fucking cities killing i dont even know how many civilians lol

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsnXeQDqOOg

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>>2003750
And people never stop talking about that.

Everyone ignores the support Castro gave to some of the worst dictators of the 20th century. People are more offended about his treatment of gay people in Cuba than over the fact he sent troops to support men like Mengistu, or gave financial and material support to men like Macias Nguema.

As I said, that's the power of cultural hegemony.

>>2003740
*Cuban criminals who got triggered by the poor not taking their shit anymore.
boo hoo

>>2003740
>cubans in Miami currently partying in the streets to celebrate this mans death
Cowards & Pussies who spent not a single effort in retaking their country back.

>>2003795
>Cowards & Pussies who spent not a single effort in retaking their country back.
They tried and failed

>>2003807
>Once.
They weren't like Eastern Europeans who kept on doing underhanded shit to bring their countries back. Soros comes to mind when that cunt funded Anti-Communist struggles the world over,

>>2003795
t. underage suburban white kid on the internet

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>>2003779
sooo Castro was good for the poor of Cuba?

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Castro promised his people a free election back in the '50
too bad it was canceled due to his premature death

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>>2003779
Yeah, see those well-connected mafia criminals in business suit going to Miami triggered by the poor enfranchisement under the glorious Castro regime.

And see how Cuba is such a paradise for the poor that it's being flooded by migrants from neighboring countries like Haiti. Why would they cross the entire Latin American landmass to migrate to capitalist Brazil when they have a socialist paradise next door.

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>>2003258

>>2003779
>if you don't like Fidel you are a criminal
Why are commies so fucking retarded

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>>2003779
>>2003795

>cowards! they just hate da poor!-t. rich white kid in the suburbs

Reminder that Castro was from a very wealthy Plantation owner family

>>2003893
>very wealthy
Arguably

But it was the first property he expropiated.

>>2003751
Someone update this senpai

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>mfw leftists idolize a murderous dictator near me
So this.......is the power.......of ideology.........huh

>>2003290
He meant for the American mafia

>>2003893
>Implying I am commie.
Just pointing out that faggots who spent not a single effort in liberating their country or whatever are celebrating for a cunt who just dropped dead of natural causes.

I'm literally taking a modern cuban history class in uni right now, that paper due next week just got a whole lot easier

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>>2003844
>expropriate farms and factories from the "workers"
>get "workers" to strike against you
>get the "people" asking for a coup
>kill yourself
topebintbhfam

>>2003996
Probably one of the most unfair expectations I've ever seen. How are a bunch of unorganized civilians supposed to pull off a naval invasion of an organized military state?

For the situation of the Cuban people and their ideology, I think it was for the people. And also by the situation. It is simple, every human being has a reaction, and the reaction of the human beings who lived in "Cuba" was the feeling of revolution. Fidel Castro can not be considered bad if he only reacted against a stimulus.
This is the natural law of man. Stimulus and reactions, therefore, the human species is in need of more analysis, not just knowledge.

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Cuba was always developed for a Latin American nation. What Castro did was stop it in time, preventing it from becoming as rich as countries like Italy and Spain.

http://www.bradford-delong.com/2016/08/lets-get-even-more-depressed-about-cuba-hoisted-from-the-archives.html

>>2003164
and yours isn't a worthwhile comment.

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>>2004044

>>2004028
>How are a bunch of unorganized civilians supposed to pull off a naval invasion of an organized military state?
Badly

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/world/americas/fidel-castro-dies.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

>>2003343
No because life is better without an authoritarian government.

>oppressive dictator
>hero

'no'

>>2003750
>being mad about the nukes
I thought this was a history board

>>2004117
>>oppressive dictator
Literally fuck off from this board right fucking now.

>>2004182
How am I wrong?

He's a dictator. He is oppressive in certain regards.

Do facts trigger you, stupid pinko?

>>2004182
I know you like to think it is, but /his/ isn't your commie safe space.

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>>2004194

>He's a dictator

Impossible to objectively define. In practice it only means any leader the West doesn't like.

>He is oppressive in certain regards

In many regards, just like every head of state ever. Violence is the leading purpose of every state, you just don't like the fact that his was directed at capitalists.

>Impossible to objectively define. In practice it only means any leader the West doesn't like.
No it means anyone who is in power undemocratically that isn't a king.
Western allies can be dictators too

>>2004194
>>2004208
>lol im so cynical XD

Ah, the essence of 4chan.

>>2004219
>Impossible to objectively define
The difference between Castro and most western elected officials is as clear as day if you have half a brain. Namely the huge difference of power and responsibility of said power, not to mention he's self appointed.

>Violence
I wasn't even getting to that, but thanks for bringing it up so I didn't have to. I was talking about how Cuba is the only remaining Latin country where political dissent is illegal. The internet is illegal. Leaving the country is illegal. Contact with family outside the country is heavily restricted. Among other oppressive bullshit that people unironically defend.

>>2004230
he is right.
I've seen big media calling Chavez a dictator.

>Western allies can be dictators too
But that detail is "forgotten" till they are no longer allies. see Qaddafi.

>>2004219
>you just don't like the fact that his was directed at capitalists
Yeah because those farmers he executed,
Those cubans arbitrarily imprisoned and given unfair trials were capitalists oh wait

>>2004219
>was directed at capitalists.
Because we all know that gay Cubans, Cuban college students and Ethiopian peasants sure do love some of that capitalism

>>2004194
>>2004208
I knew /his/ was filled with uneducated /pol/tards but jesus fucking christ, sometimes you manage to amaze me despite this fact.

>>2004295
>Can't even put up a rebuttal

Just kill yourself, dumb pinko. You're as useless as your meme ideology.

>>2004306
The fuck do I have to say? He's not a fucking dictator, what more can I fucking add?

>>2004252
People were calling Qaddafi a dictator even when he was Sarkozy's best friend.

>>2004295
Are you seriously implying Castro wasn't a dictator? For fucks sake, he micromanaged almost everything about Cuba during his reign.

>>2004312
>not democratically elected
>dissent towards him is ILLEGAL
>power is concentrated towards his will, rather than balanced among different institutions

What the fuck else does he have to be to be a dictator?

>>2004321
A dictator has negative connotations but when used in a neutral manner than Qaddafi was absolutely a dictator.

Fuck Castro

>>2004322
>he micromanaged almost everything about Cuba during his reign

Maybe he was a dictator, but this is bullshit.

>>2003674
You are a huge faggot.....

>>2004240

>The difference between Castro and most western elected officials is as clear as day if you have half a brain. Namely the huge difference of power and responsibility of said power, not to mention he's self appointed.

I'm well aware that the title dictator is supposed to signify a leader with "too much" power but, as I said, you can't objectively define how much is too much. Being self-appointed is a small detail, an autocrat is an autocrat. Most elected leaders are no less forced on the population either. Presidents have rarely ever inspired enthusiasm, yet people in liberal "democracies" everywhere are forced to deal with their existence.

Your attempt to see history as a struggle of big governments vs free republics just doesn't hold up. The US regularly backs political strongmen when it suits it's interests and doesn't bother calling them dictators unless their outlive their usefulness. (Saddam, for one)

>I was talking about how Cuba is the only remaining Latin country where political dissent is illegal. The internet is illegal. Leaving the country is illegal. Contact with family outside the country is heavily restricted. Among other oppressive bullshit that people unironically defend.

I haven't shied away from admitting Cuba is repressive. Unfortunately you have and will almost certainly brush off any Western acts of state violence I mention. I personally wouldn't care much if Cuba was the most repressive state in the world, I just hate the rich and generally admire anyone that devotes their life to killing them.

>>2004345
>He wielded power like a tyrant, controlling every aspect of the island’s existence. He was Cuba’s “Máximo Lider.” From atop a Cuban Army tank, he directed his country’s defense at the Bay of Pigs. Countless details fell to him, from selecting the color of uniforms that Cuban soldiers wore in Angola to overseeing a program to produce a superbreed of milk cows. He personally set the goals for sugar harvests. He personally sent countless men to prison.

>>2004356
>I personally wouldn't care much if Cuba was the most repressive state in the world, I just hate the rich and generally admire anyone that devotes their life to killing them.
Castro was the son of a wealthy plantation owner and his net worth was in the billions by the time of his death.

Look, you may or may not agree that Hitler was a baddie, but you will respect that he had a moustache.

>>2004358
nice pasta.

>>2002583
pino was so based

>>2004371
Is it wrong?

>>2003795
Man you are so tough kys

>>2004363
Where do you people get news from ?

>>2004356
>hates rich people
>likes Castro

wew lad

>>2004381
Reuters and Al Jazeera personally

>>2004381
People that lived with Castro, as body guards and shit, that managed to defect to America told stories about how rich Castro was. The only person claiming Castro isn't rich is Castro himself, probably to keep his slav- I mean proles feeling happy.

>>2004239
Shut up retard

>>2004378
Yeah is wrong. Cuba is a one party republic. But people do participate and have democratic mechanisms .

BTW in practice USA is a bi-party country (and not that different parties). Makes you think.

He was a good boy dindu nuffin

>>2004402
Did they saw the big chamber where he used to kep old swords, mountains of spaniard coins, gold bricks, jewlery, diamonds, fine rugs, classic paintings, etc?

>>2004415
>But people do participate and have democratic mechanisms .
Very limited and things only get done if Raul Castro gives it the go ahead.

>BTW in practice USA is a bi-party country
In practice the two US parties have become 2 giant coalitions that house everything from democratic socialists to neoliberals, paleoconservatives to Goldwater republicans. It's complex and byzantine by design.

>>2004363

Wealth inequality doesn't bother me either. I'm well-aware that communist leaders hardly made the same salaries as working men. But being relatively wealthy and a capitalist are two different things. I just hate them because their political philosophy and worldview is a total failure. They think they have an objective "right" to property, they are wrong. They think their existence is essential to the welfare of their subjects, they are wrong. They've used the state to enforce abstract concepts like nationhood on us so much that some of them have even started believing in nationalism themselves. I'm critical of Castro's leadership in some major ways too but he was nowhere near on the same level of hypocrisy and ignorance exhibited by the ruling class's ideology.

>>2004457
Lol

>>2004457

>Wealth inequality doesn't bother me either.
How very non-Marxist of you. Seriously, you can't consider yourself anything left of center if you think wealth inequality is no big deal.
>But being relatively wealthy and a capitalist are two different things
How so? They both sound quite similar.
>They think they have an objective "right" to property, they are wrong
And so the logical solution is that everyone has the objective "right" to share someones property?
>They've used the state to enforce abstract concepts like nationhood on us so much that some of them have even started believing in nationalism themselves.
The concept of a nation isn't new nor is it exclusive to capitalism. Nation states were in fact born out of a rejection of feudalism and noble inheritance.
>I'm critical of Castro's leadership in some major ways too but he was nowhere near on the same level of hypocrisy and ignorance exhibited by the ruling class's ideology.
I'd say they were about equal, which is a shame considering how much Communism promises a more just and equitable society.

>>2004495
not same guy but:
> Nation states were in fact born out of a rejection of feudalism and noble inheritance.

it was the inception of capitalism too. The burgeois revolutions.

>>2004509
True, which I think most Communists agree was a good thing.

The problem is that the lower classes still rely on representatives from the bourgeoisie class to represent them, so they'll never truly have that kind of power in a parliamentary/presidential system.

>>2004495
>>Wealth inequality doesn't bother me either.
>How very non-Marxist of you.
Nigga read some Marx
>"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

>>2004559
>Marx
>Not a scathing critic of wealth inequality.
What reality do you live in?

>it's a "other bad people exist therefore castro wasn't a bad person" episode

>>2004712
M8, its just not a socialist value to believe that everyone should get the same things all the time.

A socialist workplace would be one where the workers decide how much their boss earns, not that their boss should earn the same as them.

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This assignment is gonna be great

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so do republicans in the U.S. not know jackshit about Salvador Allende's election and the imposition of Pinochet?

come some of the shit they're spewing about castro is hypocritical as fuck

>>2004977
They do, they just support Pinochet.

>>2005013

so they are just hypocrites, cause on the tyrant shit Pinochet has Castro beat

>>2004895
>>it's a "other bad people exist therefore castro wasn't a bad person" episode
this

>>2003844
kek

>>2005025
I dunno, supporting the Derg is pretty fucked up. Even the Soviets and Chinese backed off on them.

>>2004044
Yeah, the embargo had nothing to do with that...

>>2002169
lel ne

>>2005143


Is the only reason why the embargo is still up Republicans listening to salty Batistianos in Florida?

>>2005156
>Batistianos
>Implying most cubans in miami give a fuck or even knows who Batista was
Commie pls go

>>2005166
know

>>2005156
(it isn't, read the news)

>>2005166

maybe they don't, but their grandparents and parents sure do

>>2005170

Are you talking about "muh Cuba need democracy and freedom first!" argument?

has /his/ redeemed him?

>>2002583
who?

>>2002583
as a 90 year old

>>2003270
being left /=/ you agree with every single leftist idea

>>2005025
Do you really believe that? Castro killed way more people than Pinochet, he repressed Cuban society way more too.

Pinochet was actually mild compared to even other Latin American right-wing dictators like Videla or Efraim Rios Montt. I don't understand why he is held as an example of absolute monster in the West.

>>2005156
Many exiles fought against Batista, but they were liberal and democratic and therefore persecuted by Castro.

>>2003270
Because they've read Stirner.

>>2003732
We dont remember it because the Soviet Union was also backing him and they were kinda more important. Not to mention it was relatively short lived.
As far as backing regimes that commit human rights violations...are you fucking kidding me?
Batista
Banana Republics
Saddam Hussein
Mubarak
Morsi
The Shah of Iran
Pinochet
Papa Doc and Baby Doc
Taliban
"Moderate Muslims" in Syria and Iraq
There are definitely more but Im only a man

Every modern word player has supported powers that did bad things or turned out different than expected at first. Critising castro for supporting Haile Mariam is kind of pointless when you understand global politics is a strategy game.

>>2005503

yeah but castro was a social democrat, che and his brother where the commies, Castro was kinda forced to go side with the USSR cause his policies put Cuban interest first instead of american interests.

Castro wanted economic partnership with the U.S. he always knew Cuba needed it to survive, but the embargo really put him on a corner.

>>2005519
You can sum up all these people and it doesn't add up to the number of people killed by Mengistu and the Derg.

And I'm criticizing the hypocrisy of people who rip off their asses over American support of foreign tyrants, and turn a blind eye when Castro did the same.

>>2005538
>Castro did the same.

Sure, but I mean, helping out the anti-colonial movement in Africa was pretty dope on their part

>>2002169
all I know is he totally outsmarted his enemies

>>2005548
Not when those anti-colonial movements ended up being worse than the colonies.

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>>2005568

so you're saying pic related?

>>2005582
I'm more of a Seretse Khama and Moise Tshombe kind of guy. The existence of a white-led country in Africa was hopeless, it would be better if they propped out some pro-white black leaders instead.

>>2004044
>What Castro did was stop it in time, preventing it from becoming as rich as countries like Italy and Spain.

I don't think that's really a comparison you want to make post 2008.

>>2005568
>Not when those anti-colonial movements ended up being worse than the colonies.
Not when that Colonial Ruler is Portugal, famfam

>>2003516
>encouraged Soviets to end all life on the planet in total nuclear holocaust
Based.

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>>2005590
>pro-white

>>2005614

All I will say about Castro is that the literacy campaign was GOAT. If illiteracy hadn't been a problem in 20th century third world a lot of shit would be different.

>>2003766
How do you think Castro is seen in the eyes of most people? I'm not talking about pretend commie college students, I mean the general population. It's not as a hero, it's as a brutal dictator. Go outside sometime.

>>2003516
Good post.

>>2005634

>living in his american bubble

thats not how it works anon, travel a bit

can someone list all the hilarious ways the CIA tried to take him out?

i know there was exploding cigars and clam shells...

>>2005538
i highly disagree with your first sentence and i dont think people turn a blind eye to anything castro did, but im all for calling out hypocrisy

>>2003516

Bad outweighs the good in my opinion. Sure, he did some pretty neat things, but so did a lot of other people that are generally considered by most to be the "bad guys" of history. Surviving assassination attempts and telling the US to fuck off does not outweigh hurting his own people.

>>2003516
Honestly, better than most American presidents

>Positive
- he's American and I'm American

>Negative
- everything else

>>2003732
> Francisco Macias Nguema
>Communist
I could tell you were retarded from a mile away

>>2003844
Damn, the ass pain was real with whoever made this.

>>2005727

>Honestly, better than most American presidents

t. edgy rich white kid

>>2003740
>cubans
Implying some faggots who have never even been to Cuba count as Cubans because their parents got buttmad about not being able to exploit the poor anymore and ran away to Miami

>>2005765
>Leftists actually buy this crap
>Murder, death squads, and torture is justified because muh upper middle class

>>2005765
>not being able to exploit the poor anymore
>more than two million of burgeoise in the USA
>two million
stop embarrasing yourself leftypol

>>2005735
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/rich-in-oil-poor-in-human-rights-torture-and-poverty-in-equatorial-guinea-a-434691.html

>After the country gained its independence from Spain in 1968, Papa Macías began having his troops slaughter the Bubi, an ethnic minority, drove a third of the country's population into exile, murdered 65,000 citizens -- and called the whole thing "socialism."

>The only countries supporting Equatorial Guinea in those years were Cuba, China, the Soviet Union and France.

And his daughter was educated in North Korea.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/extraordinary-images-reveal-life-in-north-korea-for-african-dictators-daughter-exiled-there-for-15-8855913.html

>>2005820
But it was not real communism, silly :^)

>>2005820
>and France

>>2005820
You forgot that there is no such thing as no true socialism

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>become oppressive dictator
>murder and torture political opponents and basically anyone who disagrees with you
>upper middle class americans call you a hero because gommunism

>>2005832
France was very cozy towards socialist regimes. Charles de Gaulle notoriously tried to seek an understanding with the Soviet Union to reduce American influence over him, and some people, like Alain Soral, say that the whole May 1968 events were a CIA-funded colour revolution to depose him for it.

>>2002169
Anyone with the balls to stand up to American influence has my respect, commie or no.

>>2003135
>(((wealthy)))

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>>2003516
>liberated the country from a dictator that was backed by a foreign government
And himself was a dictator backed by the soviet union

>>2002169
All the lefties in my country are mourning him while american liberals on tumblr are ranting about him being a cruel dictator, 2016 is a really shitty year for the left lmao.

>>2006221

>tumblr is now the rational side

what a fucking bizarre time we live in.

>>2006216
He turned to USSR because burgers fucked up after Batista was deposed.

He wasn't in a position of choice.

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>>2003820

Commies confirmed for travelling

>>2002169
Sometimes countries need a dictator. Lord knows I would have Gaddafi and Saddam back in an instant.

The Miami Cubans aren't going to go back even now Castro is dead.

>>2002169
no
13 facts about Castro:
●He turned Cuba into a colony of the Soviet Union and nearly caused a nuclear holocaust.
●He sponsored terrorism wherever he could and allied himself with many of the worst dictators on earth.
●He was responsible for so many thousands of executions and disappearances in Cuba that a precise number is hard to reckon.
●He brooked no dissent and built concentration camps and prisons at an unprecedented rate, filling them to capacity, incarcerating a higher percentage of his own people than most other modern dictators, including Stalin.
●He condoned and encouraged torture and extrajudicial killings.
●He forced nearly 20 percent of his people into exile, and prompted thousands to meet their deaths at sea, unseen and uncounted, while fleeing from him in crude vessels.
●He claimed all property for himself and his henchmen, strangled food production and impoverished the vast majority of his people.
●He outlawed private enterprise and labor unions, wiped out Cuba’s large middle class and turned Cubans into slaves of the state.
●He persecuted gay people and tried to eradicate religion.
●He censored all means of expression and communication.
●He established a fraudulent school system that provided indoctrination rather than education, and created a two-tier health-care system, with inferior medical care for the majority of Cubans and superior care for himself and his oligarchy, and then claimed that all his repressive measures were absolutely necessary to ensure the survival of these two ostensibly “free” social welfare projects.
●He turned Cuba into a labyrinth of ruins and established an apartheid society in which millions of foreign visitors enjoyed rights and muh privileges forbidden to his people.
●He never apologized for any of his crimes and never stood trial for them.

>>2007318
To be fair, during the Cold War, small nations had two choices - become a colony of the Soviets or the Americans.

>>2003516

Based post. Good on ya anon

>>2003695
>Cuba was wealthier than some US states

Some US states had a tiny, tiny fraction of Cuba's population.

>>2003949

>leftists
>implying all leftists like tankie Castro

Yes and I'm sure all right wingers like Mussolini.

Idiot

>>2003820
Comparatively, yes.

>>2004326

Not him, but you do realise he gave power to his brother?

And you do realise he obtained power by conducting a revolution no less?

Are you per-chance, retarded?

>>2007318
>He turned Cuba into a colony of the Soviet Union and nearly caused a nuclear holocaust

So you're just going to ignore how the USSR was only reacting to the US putting their missiles in Europe and Turkey?

>>2005790

As opposed to a meme president who back flipped on his policies and denounced the alt right?

Yeah I'm really feeling embarrassed desu

>>2007318

It's shit like this which makes me glad I'm an anarchist who hates commies

>>2002274
>>2003449
>>2002392
'Struth.

He started to come around to communism obviously, but it's a fact that when the revolution by Castro and Co won, they (Castro's decision) were not doing so as communists. They took a little while to declare themselves to Marxism or whatever, and that was largely because the USSR offered support at the same time that Bautista fans in the US declared the revolution a hostile coup and so on.

Castro soon became a fairly committed police-state commie, no doubt about that. But to be honest, he was not all that different from the mould of other Latin American strongman police-state caudillos.

Say what you will, but he DID fend off American imperialism. Cuba would today be another Puerto Rico, otherwise.

>>2003312
"per capita" means absolutely zilch when that wealth (gambling and sugar/tobacco exports) are concentrated in the hands of a bald-faced mafia oligarchy. It's the same reason that GDP is a rather misleading measuring stick.

It compared with civil-war wracked Spain (largely agricultural), Poortugal, and devastated Italy and Japan?

>>2004044
I think a lot of people try to white wash what Cuba was like before Castro came to power.

To the American perception, it was a country that was run and influenced by the mob. To your typical Cuban, it was a lot more. Batista took public money to fund casinos- insomuch as using retirement pensions.

Anything outside of Havana was a wasteland of poverty and illiteracy.

Had Cuba fell into American influence, it probably would have just ended up like Mexico or some other country that had to live through a banana republic. Chile didn't come out of Pinochet's era like the Chicago boys said it would. They have no national healthcare system and their people work crazy hours. This is why they started electing socialists again.

>>2003271
Nice meme fachito

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>>2003261
Because if they don't, they end up dead or in jail. But that's a feature, not a bug, to jerkoffs like you.

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>>2002169
He was a hoagie and thus more delicious.

>>2002252
So Darth Vader then

>>2007428
The thing is that Castro himself advocated for nuking the US. Did whoever was in charge of Turkey at that time advocate for nuking the USSR?

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>>2003844
>Implying that this didn't happen AFTER the Nixon admin got the IMF to suspend all aid.
Top pleb.

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SOON

>>2003516
thank you

>>2003751
>US
>democracy
lel

>>2008884

>The thing is that Castro himself advocated for nuking the US

You're thinking of Che. Che was the one who was pissed that the Cuban Missile Crisis didn't end in nuclear war. He felt that the Soviets had wussed out.

>>2007318
>wiped out Cuba’s large middle class
Everyone outside Havanna was living in abject poverty before.

He did apologize for the gay thing later. A lot of the stuff there was happening before he took over the job.

>>2004044
that e-thing US did had absolutely no impact on economy

>>2007627
>'Struth
listen man im not even part of the argument at hand and i dont care about either side's points but you are TRIGGERING ME with that bullshit apostrophe

>>2003516
Don't forget that he improved health and educaton

If by hero you mean piece of shit who killed tons of his own countrymen.

Cubans are still on the streets celebrating his death. It represents a lot. People separated from their homeland, families, businesses, people thrown in prison for opposing the regime, firing squads, being left naked in jail, people dying simply trying to arrive in the US, Hermanos al Rescate plains shot down, and tons more. He left too easy some think. But he is suffering on the other side, guaranteed.

>>2011090
>Cubans are still on the streets celebrating his death

sure, the miami ones are

>>2011107
Of course, and in Hialeah, and in their homes. In Cuba, they have this bullshit and absolutely disingenuous "8 days of mourning". As if Cubans over there aren't just glad to be rid of him. Hell, they'd like the rest of em to just disappear already.

Cuba would go on just fine without a single one of em.

>>2011126

I agree, but the thing I don't like is that U.S. politicians are circling around Cuba now like vultures and is kinda disgusting.

I saw some miami cuban congressman saying how this is a great opportunity for American interests.

>>2011126
Obviously some don't like him but many do genuinely miss him and looked up to him as a leader.

>>2011269
Brainwashed, the lot of them. Snitches, neighborhood traitors, police and secret police, military, annoying neighbors is what they were. Think of them as the biggest disservice, especially the CDR. The smile that misunderstands cruel intentions, associated with those who know very well how deep it goes. The people who swore alliance without seeing the true face of Communism. Without seeing the firing squads, labor chains, prisoners, etc, without truly understanding the garbage that was Castro.

You can perform many kind acts to attempt to clear out your bad works, But the scars you leave will remain. Repenting is the only thing that may have saved him, but he never did. Hell, if he did, sure as hell didn't change much.

>>2011260
They have nothing, not till that government structure on the island implodes. And who knows when that will be.

>>2003270
because it's the biggest hole in that retarded philosophy

>>2011476
And still better than Bautista. At least he was a local boy who kept Americans from doing the exact same shit. That's all it's about, really.

I can't wait till the first loudmouthed ignorant American fratboy summerbreak cunts are stabbed and left to die in some dark Havana alley. Soon.

>>2004457
I've never seen anyone's argument fall apart more perfectly.

>>2002274
He was not a communist/Marxist, but he definitely had socialist convictions on top of being a nationalist/populist. The only reason anyone thinks this wannabe Bolivar was hero was cause of his social reforms that made life better for a lot of poor Cubans, at the expense of the old ruling class, and restoring the country's dignity after decades of basically being an American protectorate/holiday colony.
That and outlasting a lot of his contemporaries.
Thanks for pointing out his Christian/socio-economic roots because nobody fucking points this out

Personally I like Castro from a historical perspective cause he's such a figure: took over the biggest island in the Caribbean with his renegade band of revolutionaries, basically took a dump in America's backyard, played the Cold War rivalry to his advantage, got Cuba (and the first nigga) into space, didn't even kiss up to the Soviets that much and joined the Non-Aligned Movement, rocked a shaggy beard well out of fashion, smoked the best tobacco in the world, and made Cuba more relevant than it ever was, before letting his little brother run the show and retiring 10 years before dying old as hell

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>>2002274
>He wasn't a Communist. He was just a leader who accidentally destroyed and exiled the ruling class.

>>2003695
Blacks aren't the fucking majority in Cuba.

>>2004044
>preventing it from becoming as rich as countries like Italy and Spain.
That was never going to happen.

>>2004953
By your stupid definition, a Capitalist nation full of pro-Capitalists is now Socialist.

>>2005631
Yeah. Castro wanted you literate so you could read the Communist Manifesto. A lot of other stuff is banned.

>>2008983
There's already McDonald's in Guantanamo Bay.

>>2007318
> He turned Cuba into a colony of the Soviet Union
Bitch please. Cuba was leeching money from the USSR. Thats not how colony works.

>>2003261
We don't. Stop talking out of your ass webon idiota

>>2012227
Internet is banned in Cuba so unless you work at an embassy you aren't Cuban.

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Friendly reminder that this thread is now brigaded by leddit cucks

>>2012142
Nearly all revolutions involve the destruction and/or exile of the former ruling classes.

>>2012073
This.

He probably tapped quite a bit of fine Cuban creole pussy in his time, too. He's easy to criticize, but he had a pretty nice life.

>>2002254
Any sense person who knows even a little bit of history recognizes him as a scum that he was. This thread is the biggest waste of time I've seen in a while.

>>2012230
I was born in Cuba in 1993 and moved to Venezuela in 1997. I remember that shithole.
The stupid thing is that I scaped from Fidel to die in this other piece of shit with Maduro and Chavez

>>2012244
He might have been a monster, but at least he was a local boy.

>>2012250
Ouch.

>>2003751
>final boss
>literally took over the US with Agent Orange.
Americans Cucked forever.

>>2007712
It's true though, Chile is literally the only decent country in Latin America just because Pinochet saved them from the communist/jews.

Only edgy jews/lefties hate Pinochet.

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>>2012234
>5-10 on a single thread to dominate the discussion

So they want to create echo chamber threads to take over /his/? lmao and this people think they know the site, bunch of faggots

>>2007627
There were no Batista fans in Miami, Batista was hated by both the right win Miami Cubans and the left wing.

In fact during Batista's first presidency the communists SUPPORTED him because they thought he's less reactionary and more pro-worker than Grau.

>>2012142
The ruling class already was exiled ever since Soccaras was deposed.

>>2012540
Uruguay is better, m8. And whiter.

>>2012603

>White

You fucking jews are obsessed with whites, and no moron, Uruguay is not better than Chile in any way.

>>2012553
>/pol/ cross linking to r/the_Donald is 100% A-ok.

>>2012646
How would you know anything about that unless you were a /pol/ack yourself?

>>2012646
Different, the Donald was a place to dump Red Pill truths to the "normie" media, not to attract them to the site. Quite the contrary actually.

>>2012041
>Can't wait until a tourist is murdered
How 3rd world desu

>>2012041
You mean Batista. Bautista is the guy who plays for the Blue Jays.

Cuba was awful for most Cubans under Batista and if not for Castro, it would have been some other idealist revolutionary. How else would a 12 man team who barely got off the island somehow managed to overthrow a US strong man? Thats impressive if nothing else.

Also Cuba's state of economic staleness has to do with the inflexibility of the socialist system but also because of the Embargo.

That said, Castro was still a dictator but he was one who lived too long. Too old to believe in the cause anymore but too old to believe in any other way and didnt want his big achievement undone.

>>2012041
Actually, that was Camilo Cienfuegos who would probably have kept him from doing the same shit. Camilo was the one who participated in the strikes against bus fare rates. Castro changed nothing, because the guy who funded both these clowns (Batista and Fidel) were the Rockefellers. Castros father was a millionaire who worked for Rockefellers United Fruit Company, and Batista long had ties to Communism. That wasn't by any means a "revolution", merely a transition of power.

Castro portrayed himself not as a Communist, but a Democrat to his friends, meanwhile writing about Marx to others. He is a false jew, like his brother Raul. And as they say, with jews, you lose.

>>2012981
In fact, if anything Cuba is a hundred fold worse than what Batists left, women are thrown into prostitution in Cuba at a young age, same as then, his drug trade went on as usual, only he blamed it on Ochoa and had him killed. His allies are Axis of Evil nations. And "his" people (me included) have been forced to leave our homeland needlessly.

>>2003429
Funny how the difference between "heroes" and "herpes" is so small

>>2003996

>I-Im totally not a communist! I just shill for the dead ideology because reasons!

>>2010688
Lol that's a total lie. Cuba had one of the best hospital systems in the world before the revolution. After it has dropped about 20 places. You are clearly ignorant of the history.

>>2013049
This. Most businesses went on as usual. Add to that, the fact that Cuba has the most doctors per capita in the world. There are so many doctors, they still do house calls the old fashioned way.

I can't believe how many people even in this thread believe the Miami Cubans are Batista supporters, talk about clueless.

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>America ruined my parent's country because they tried to nationalize their Bauxite mines and refused to condemn Castro for fighting Apartheid South Africa.

Normally I hate dictators, but he made Imperialists mad so I'm A-OK with him.

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>>2013085
This is how misunderstood our people are. To think that these Hillary supporting liberals have been brainwashed so throroughly.

But that isn't that stunning to me really. Whats TRULY stunning, is the amount of Cubans who are in Florida, and were disappointed to see Trump win.

What in the ACTUAL fuck? You have got to be mentally crippled to vote for a leftist after what happened in Cuba.

>>2013108

>implying apartheid was totally a bad thing?

Have you seen South Africa lately? It's a shithole. It literally looks like Cuba.

Mugabe is also kicking out whites who've lived in his country for 30+ years now too. He can't even pay his military; probably why he's rewarding his veterans with white peoples homes.

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2016-07-15-analysis-south-africa-can-and-must-act-to-prevent-a-disaster-in-zimbabwe/

>>2013209
>Have you seen South Africa lately? It's a shithole. It literally looks like Cuba.

South Africa was always a shithole, they just didn't mind that it was a shithole for most of the people living there.

>>2013233
It could have been something different.

>>2013237
Maybe, if the Afrikaaners didn't chimp out for decades over 'muh racial purity'.

>>2013209
South africa has had better HDI since the end of the apartheid.
It literally has improved.

>>2013284
I don't agree with racism, or ignorance. But if a people collectively choose a destiny for themselves, so be it. Rhodesia wasn't a bad example, it was also diverse, the South, not so much from what I read.

>>2012852
Torontofag here, so probably why I slipped that up.

Out of curiosity, who (else) here has actually been to Cuba?

>>2013403
Not me, but apparently I have a lot of family there. I ain't ever seen those niggas tho.

My sister went on government business once, she said it was nice.

>>2013288
I know this is a stormfront link, but it's the only one I've found to explain the differences. Any time you type Rhodesia into Google, Zimbabwe comes up, as if to stifle research or something.

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t877805/

>>2013403
Born there, returned several times to deliver money and goods to family and others. It's a pain in the ass. Get taxed here in the states simply to get a passport/visa. Only to get taxed as soon as you get there. Electronic commodities, taxed, slightly overweight on goods, taxed. The price to travel over there from Miami is mafia prices. And yet only a single county above us, the prices for a ticket are slashed 3 or 4 times lower.

>>2013557
Try going through Mexico or Jamaica. You can't buy the connections from the US, or with an American credit card, but you easily could once you're in a third country. Sucks because Miami to Havana is a super short flight, but maybe you can avoid some BS.

Here's a question: how likely and quick is the neo-liberal invasion of KFC, Chipotle, Wal-Mart, Target, Chevron, Bank of America, Home Depot and shit? What will it take? Does Raul need to kick the bucket too? There's a chain of successors, surely, but some kind of capitalist revolution can't be too far off...

Also, Havana in the MLB when?

>>2013643
The only thing Cuba has -with respect to government opposition now, is the internet and people who easily get scooped up and thrown in jail. Internet is what truly exposes corruption over there. How likely is it the government will come apart? I would hope top commies are asking themselves the same question, but we know better, nothing will change, not any time soon. The military controls most industrial operations, so it's unlikely change will come in favor of the people.

If you want McDonalds, go to GITMO, they've had that and other standard US food places there for some time now.

No such thing as fast food -anything there. Small businesses run directly out of peoples homes. Pizzas, snacks, sandwiches, all relatively low tier quality in comparison to anything you will eat in the states or even Canada.

>MLB
Trump is gonna be closing up shop, baseball might suffer indirectly because of it. Meh, I prefer triathlon anyway.

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>>2003258
>can't even use a high res proper image
ffs

>>2003258

Many students actually opposed Castro. In fact, many of those students were the very people being lined up and shot by firing squad. My moms uncle was spared because he was 16 then, the rest of his friends were shot. He was in a cell butt naked for months, being forced to do manual labor too. Even got stabbed with a bayonet.

>>2013643
Dude, seriously, why would you want McDonalds in Cuba? When Cuban food itself is amazing.. one would have to be stupid to stoop as low as McDonalds if the average Cuban grandma can start a small restaurant. Now imagine that same grandma competing with others.. cheap homestyle food, awesome prices.

>>2002169
Depends on who you ask, really.

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>>2013049

>>2014632
Like I said, most doctors per capita in the world. They have a low infant mortality rate because they focus on prenatal care (months off work to focus on the baby). And they live longer for a multitude of reasons, one, they can't even afford to guzzle down burgers like we do here in the states, so they eat the most affordable things; veggies, fruits, chicken (chicken the government rations out mostly). They are also too poor to afford vehicles, so walking and public transit is very common. Sports culture is big in Cuba too, keeps kids in shape.

It's not like these aren't things Americans themselves cant do, even the very poor. The so called poor anyway, poverty here is like royalty there.

>>2014854
Not to mention the state takes your pigs and cows from you. People raise pigs in secrecy over there.

>>2012142
Cuba had a ruling class of 2 million people out of an Island of 10 million?

>>2003258
and to make matter worse fidel actually commanded his troops and kicked the ass of invading americunts

meanwhile, pinochet was to being washington's little bitch

>>2003278
it's so easy to spot /pol/ every single board and thread they visit... the lack of notion, culture, living in an alternative reality and the maniacal paranonia really makes all of you to stand out.
please stay on your containment board - you have nothing of value to add to any topic

>>2013643
>Also, Havana in the MLB when?
Right after Trump annexes Cuba. It's our rightful clay anyway.

>>2015620
He actually kicked the ass of his own people who Murricans decided to abandon at the last minute

>>2013403
Of course the edgy communist on the board would be a fucking leaf. Don't you have some Che Guevara blanket to curl up into while eating organic vegepoop enchiladas and emotionally healing from Trump victory while your PM imports dunecoons by the boatload?

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>>2003516
>became a brutal dictator himself
if he was as brutal as some say, you wouldn't see subhuman apes comemorating his dead in little havana because they would be all buried under six feet

he might have been a dictator and he might have killed people, but if all dictators in the history of mankind were like him, the percentage of deaths inflicted by them would lower about 95%

in the end i have to admit, while i have no sympathy for dictators, this was probably the only benevolent dictator we've ever seen in the past century - what he did, he did for his people and never forget he was being opressed by the largest economical power in the world.

>>2015669
>if he was as brutal as some say, you wouldn't see subhuman apes comemorating his dead in little havana because they would be all buried under six feet

He didn't kill that many people, he just made the entire Island one giant prison.

>>2015677

A prison you at one point could leave whenever you wanted to.

It was just really fucking hard to travel 90 miles on a raft

>>2012250
>I was born in Cuba in 1993 and moved to Venezuela in 1997. I remember that shithole.
No, you don't

>>2015656
>Murricans decided to abandon at the last minute
Kennedy never commited to providing military support to that operation.
The CIA gave the go ahead anyway because they were sure Kennedy would shit his pants, change his mind at the last minute, and at least send an air strike.
He didn't.

>>2004182
fling yourself out of a helicopter senpai