/rel/ - zoroastrian edition

related, how close were zoroastrianism and manichaeism?

>>1990461
I don't know much about manicheanism, but wasn't it basically a fusion of christianity, buddhism and zoroastrianism. It sounds extremely interesting, honestly.

Any book recommendations on manicheanism?

Daily reminder that Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism and Christianity.

>Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism

>Zoroastrianism seems to have exercised a strong influence on the development and eschatological notions in Second Temple Judaism. Christianity, an offshoot of Judaism at the end of this period, got most of its eschatological ideas through the apocrypha of the Old Testament, the Jewish writings of the period just before the emergence of Christianity.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/eschatology-i

Christianity = ersatz Zoroastrianism.

>>1990459
>Does anyone have some reading recommendations?

I second this.

I recently read "an introduction to zoroastrianism" by Rose. It went through historic sources of each dynasty what the religion was about. It was fairly dry to read.

What's the best translation of the Avesta?

What are some good books on Zoroastrianism?

And is the CK2 incest completely a meme or is it based on reality?

>>1991094
A meme. Zoroastrian rulers inbred, but then so did rulers in every other religion.

Zoroastrianism proper DOES allow cousin marriage however which some translations (emphasis on translations) use to mean inter-family marriage.

CKII needed to give Zoroastrianism a unique mechanic, hence, incest.

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>summer job
>notice that a brown co worker has a faravahar tattoo
>wow, cool you are zoroastrian?
>wat?
>you are a zoroastrian?
>uhh whats that
>the religion whose symbol you have tattooed on your arm haha
>aah ok, nah, I just saw it somewhere and it looked cool so I had it tattooed
>later find out he's not even middle easterner, just a gypsy

It's a shame that modern zoroastria is so closed off to new converts. They say that if their God wanted you to be zoroastrian, you would be born as such. There is a more liberal sect that takes converts, but the group isny seen as real zoroastrians.

>>1991247
I thought they didn't accept converts because they were allowed to migrate to India (and stay in Iran) on the condition they do not try to proselytise.

>>1991344

God Himself has placed everyone in his/her faith in a kind of religious destiny, and thus conversion is a disobedience against the God who has given you your specific religion. Many Zoroastrian traditionalists, especially Parsis, believe that the soul, which pre-exists birth into a material body, has chosen, in union with the will of God, to enter a specific religion. Attempting to convert is going against the true nature of one's own Soul. For traditionalists, conversion to Zoroastrianism is just short of blasphemy - an act of contempt for the God who has given you birth in a specific tradition.

The proselytizing point you raised is more of an unwritten rule as far as zoroastrians go. The Kisseh-i-Sanjan, an epic poem written by a 16th-century Parsi priest, documents the history of his people in India. According to the poem, the pilgrims negotiated with the rulers of Gujarat for safe haven there, and they worked out an agreement. The pilgrims were required to explain the tenets of their religion to the ruler, among some other minor changes such as marriage celebration times.

>>1991344
Btw, convertion to Judaism is so complicated for the same reason.

>>1991396
>>1991403
I guess I was wrong, thank you.

Can anyone elaborate on how the syncretism between Zoroastrianism and Abraham faiths manifests?

Aren't a ton of Torah stories inspired heavily/ "ripped off"?

To what extent does this go to?

>>1990459
I've got a folder on Zoroastrianism.
https://mega.nz/#F!dIhi0Y5B!MwSi9d4DWxLerpoLAiPBzQ
For everything else there's Avesta.org.

Also, the religion's not dead, pic related.

>>1991396
>>1991457
Parsi traditionalism is not the only flavor of religion. Many who have come to the US have woken up to the fact their religion is dying and are acting to preserve it, hence FEZANA and pic related.

I've talked to two converts on 4chan. You should probably be SINCERE and DEVOTED, but conversion shouldn't be asninely prohibitive.

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>>1991478
Shit, pic related

>>1991476
It's complex and speculative. I recommend you take a peek at the parity between Zahak and Qayin, as well as Eschatology.

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>>1991208
same feel
>restaurant opens across the street
>it's Daryus in persian
>later they put a persian flag in front of the stor but with faravahar in the center
>on the door: "good deeds good words good thoughts"
>go inside
>sit at table as if I came to eat
>brown guy comes to take my order
>tell him I don't want food but to know about Zoroastrianism
>find out only some employees were iranians
>they were all muslims
>mfw
>the lamb was good though

>>1991484
>>1991478
A good article on the sticky nature of 'conversion' (acceptance):
http://ozcf.com/page-515197

>>1991484
>>1991478
>>1991511
Thank you, based anon(s).

Bump for interest

Is Zoroastriansim the official /his/ religion?

What is it about Zoroastrianism that would make someone want to convert?

>>1991610
/his/ likes antiques. Another popular religion here is Orthodoxy.

Catholicism is no longer a religion, it's a secular NGO.

Protestantism comes off as inauthentic.

Don't get me started on Wicca/Neopaganism.

Bhuddhism and Hinduism are based af, but the hippies and new agers arrived there first and ruined it for everyone else.

Zoroastrianism appears to have great elements and influenced the Abrahamics. Say you areis an Abrahamic (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, name the flavor), why would you prefer the copy (Christianity, etc.) when you can have the original (Zoroastrianism)?

I for one would prefer Roman Mithraism.

>>1991701
>Don't get me started on Wicca/Neopaganism.

What's wrong with Wicca/Neopaganism?

>>1991712
According to /his/ they're all LARPers with no genuine adherents. In short children flippantly dismissing things.

>>1991107
Bullshit.

>The best xwēdōdah is that by which a son sires a son-brother with his birth mother, because, having come from her body, he is nearer to his origin; thus offspring from siblings with the same parents is more valuable than when the parents are different (ed. Dresden, p. [55]; ed. Madan, p. 75; tr. de Menasce, p. 87; see also Macuch, 1991, pp. 143-45).

Zoroastrianism is the only religion where incest is not only sanctioned but recommended.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/marriage-next-of-kin

>>1991777
>wincest
>bad
Wew unto ye.

>>1991729
You gonna cast a hex on me, Anon?

>>1991788
No. What makes you think I would? I never said I was either of those.

>>1991478
The religion is not dead; its dying.

A couple more generations and: a) it will be all but gone under the Islamic Republic of Iran; and b) it will be too far diluted amongst the Parsis and their diaspora thanks to increasing secularism and intermarriage and decreasing birth rates.

>>1991795
Because /his/ dismisses those LARPers for this very reason: they're ridiculous. They deserve every ounce of ridicule because they're either neo-Nazi THOR STRONK skinheads or else bored middle class housewives and feminists.

I mean, come on.

https://youtu.be/zfO-4W9uUCI

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Dead bodies should neither be cremated, nor thrown into water, nor buried in the earth. They should be allowed to disintegrate or consued by vultures and other birds who have been created by God for the specific purpose

>>1991810
>they're ridiculous.

How are they in any way more ridiculous than any other religious person?

I think people just mock them because they highlight just how absurd their own practices are.

>>1991810
Yeah the vid is somewhat goofy.

That said, there are actually people reconstructing Cunning Craft ala materials like Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet.

>>1991798
There are branches in every major metro US area; it's not going anywhere anytime soon. May not be relevant either, but it will likely continue in its current form longer than you'd anticipate.

>>1991777
While historical and actually practiced, the Palhavi texts are late as shit. Extent of incestuous marriage depends greatly on who, when, and where.

>>1991729
My understanding is the vast majority of /his/ has never seriously researched various forms of Paganism or even BTW or Cunning Craft.

>>1991836
There's evidence that in early Zoroastrian funerals were not performed in Towers of Silence dogs were allowed to consume the carcasses.

There's a fair amount of info in Vendidad:
http://www.avesta.org/vendidad/vd8sbe.htm

>>1991836
Unless, of course, you're a king.

Link related. Not to mention all the other royal tombs dotted around Persepolis.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Cyrus

>>1991853
>While historical and actually practiced, the Palhavi texts are late as shit. Extent of incestuous marriage depends greatly on who, when, and where.

It is well known that almost all the Pahlavi texts are based on earlier, Avestan texts.

Otherwise we'd have to discount central Zoroastrian cosmological texts like the Bundahišn as well.

>>1991876
I ain't saying it wasn't a component of early cosmology I'm rather saying that it's like certain local flavors of Sharia in which popular local practice gets subsumed into greater religious codes of ethics, morals, and social life.

>>1991853
Look at freefalling church attendance figures. And given that Parsis tend to be better educated - and thus statistically more likely to be irreligious/secular - I don't have much hope for Zoroastrianism once the older generation dies out.

Once the cultural draw of Zoroastrianism takes overtakes its religious draw (and this applies to any religion), it's ceased to exist as far as I'm concerned.

The best Zoroastrianism can hope for is a cultural identity much like secular Jews.

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How are Zoroastrians disposed of these days any way?

>>1991899
>The best Zoroastrianism can hope for is a cultural identity much like secular Jews.
That's exactly what I was going to say. Why don't they go full Jewish? Jews don't believe in anything that their books say, but they celebrate the holydays, eat the food and have some bearded old men suck some baby dicks just in case.

>>1991897
You're right that the extent to which it was practised is unknown - probably not that much since well-adjusted humans under normal circumstances have an inbuilt revulsion to pounding their own mother.

However, the evidence heavily suggests that as far as the sources are concerned, next-of-kin marriage was more than just an adopted 'local flavor'. Especially when you consider it in relation to Zoroastrian inheritance law.

>>1991928
>well-adjusted humans under normal circumstances have an inbuilt revulsion to pounding their own mother.
Speak for yourself, faggot.

>>1991899
>Once the cultural draw of Zoroastrianism takes overtakes its religious draw
What does this even mean?

>>1991919
In Towers of Silence. A number still operate.

>>1991946

How do they get the bodies there if no one is supposed to touch them? Who removes the bones and what happens to them?

>>1991966
Go read Vendidad.

More seriously there are funerary specialists that know the methods of proper handling; generally head to toe in white, with gloves, the body being removed by being placed on a sheet.

One the bones are flensed they're generally swept into the pit at the center of the Tower.

>>1991946
>In Towers of Silence. A number still operate.

Even in the United States?

Bumpage

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Mithraist here.

"Hail to thee, Eternal Spiritual sun whose visible symbol rises in the heights of the heavens, hail to thee from the abodes of noon."

Sol Invictus!

>>1993039

What about mithraism made you say, "I want some of that."

>>1993058
It just makes so much sense.

>>1993096

Go on...

>>1991567
No, that's Orthodox Christianity.