Are people ultimately more divided by class or by nationality?

Both.

Nationality, obviously.

>>1988777

How do you measure division?

>>1988777
class, obviously

>>1988777
Both are spooks.

>>1988777
Race > Nationality > Class

in that order

>>1988803
>race > nationality

I wish. This is only true in America.

>Class
This is hardly a factor except in very specific circumstances.

When WWI broke out, the Social Democratic Party of Germany voted for the war because they thought that the Germany and Europe's working classes would forget about nationalism and turn against their bourgeois masters as soon as they had a gun on their hands. It turns out that the working classes fought for their nation viciously in WWI.

Russia was of course the exception to the rule, but it would take a whole thread to explain why Russia was different.

Class and Nationally > Religion > Race

>>1988803
Where? The US?

>>1988867
>Class more important than religion
Dude, the OP didn't ask what's more important to (You). He asked what happens in the real world we live in.

you know the Bedouin saying? me against my brothers, my brothers against my uncles, my brothers and my uncles against my tribe, and my tribe against the world?

well it applies to pretty much all ethnicities a lot more than people are willing to admit

>>1988777
Upper class people nowadays are very similar regardless of country, since there is something of a global culture and knowledge that more educated people are much more exposed to. The lower class and less educated people meanwhile are more affected by local traditions, thus vary more greatly by country (it also helps that a poor person is much poorer in an African country than in Western Europe).

So lower class people are very much divided from each other by nationality, the rich not so much.

>>1988883
Yes, and what I posted was very much how the real world looks like. That's why he placed race as high.

>>1988777
>Are people ultimately more divided by class or by nationality?
Ideology(Including religion)>Class>Nationality>Race

>>1988959

class>age>sex>nationality>race>religion

>>1988950
i think race divisions are bigger within a country and depends on other things

hmm thinking about it i think age might be the biggest., nationality at bottom i think. dont think theres a one answer desu; all divisions are contextualised.

>>1988777
My Team > Your Team

you cannot disprove of this truth

>>1988777
WWI proved the answer is nationality.

Nationality.

I don't have much more solidarity with an 18 year old minimum wage earner in Russia than I do my manager in the US.

>>1989079
yeah but in another context it might not be nationality. e.g. in a university, class might be bigger

When it comes to tangible division, it is class by far i.e. class has much more an effect on individuals than nationality in real world metrics. When talking about the public consciousness, and an individuals view of themselves, I would say nationality is generally seen as a bigger element of division than class. Beyond this, most people (in the U.S.), don't really identify themselves by class at all, and certainly not as much as by religion, nationality and, above all, race.

>>1988777
class > race > nationality
t. spic

Ideology beats all.

Nationality. Only an anglo who mostly deals with other brands of anglos and the occasional westernized wealthy foreigner who's putting his best foot forward would say otherwise.

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>>1988777
Ultimately by class. Everything else is a social construct, meaning if people wanted to they could easily get over it and simply ignore it. Thats why nationalism, racism, homophobia, etc, are considered ignorant by most modern intellectuals. The only value in those is what you pervieve it to be. Any individual from any background being able bodied and of sound mind if properly trained can be or do whatever an individual from a different background can do. Our economic opportunities and capabilities are what truely limit and divide us. It is often mistaken for other issues as we see in the whole race debate in the US right now.

Class.

But I would also suggest that above all else people are most deeply divided by character. Rich normies have far more in common with poor normies than they do with rich robots.

>>1988777
I would say nationality in the past but things are much more globalized now so Idk.

>>1989892
>if people wanted to they could easily get over it

What an elegant way of saying it.

>>1988777
Class.
I'd much rather be black\hindu\arab\jew\whatever, but a billionaire, than white but poor.

And everyone who say they'd choose otherwise are dishonest wankers.

>commushits still can't comprehend how and why people value culture or camaraderie with people similar to them over how many zeros there are in their bank account

shiggy

>>1988777
Divided in what sense?
Why do I have to choose one or the other?

>>1989892
Class is also a social construct. What's wrong with social constructs? When the fuck did "it's a social construct" become an argument?

>>1988777
They are divided by laws of the universe.

>>1989951
Perhaps you being here today talking with people from all over the world about same topics instead of interacting with a random person from street of your country should have tipped you off.

>>1988777
It depends on where and when

In the U.S I'd say that it's class > race

>>1988777
Religion

>>1989956
grandpa lenin there argues that ultimately it's not nationality\race that prevents you from doing smth (like getting a job, education or whatever), but how much money you have.
If you're loaded, you can have any job and\or education, live anywhere you want. If you're not, you're in deep shit regardless of the color of your skin or where were you born.

class
the biggest thing causing conflict
a lot of things can directly or indirectly be traced to it

>>1988777
Money, therefor class.
In some cases it's nationalism, but it's engineered for decades by the people in power to fulfill their goals.
People care more about nationality than money if they are very heavily indoctrinated and naive.
Even in nationalist conflicts, you'll see some organize pillaging between them and trade illegally gotten goods with the enemy.
Race again, only if you're indoctrinated. And i've never seen people so heavily indoctrinated with racial identity as black Americans. Their overarching sense of being black above all else is just insane.
Honestly in the end it comes down to money. Poor people are much more easily indoctrinated.

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>>1988777
Ask the Democrats

>>1990242
Because black people are racist as fuck, and say they're not racist and it's justified because of their collective victim complex.

>>1988777
What you are really asking is,
>are people ultimately more driven to cooperate by shared financial goals or shared genetic goals?
This question can actually probably be proven empirically or logically, but I'm too lazy/dumb.

>>1989956
Because class isnt a social construct. You are literally limited by how much money you have and the opportunities are alotted to you. Saying that black people or hungarians are inferior to whites or germans is a social construct because it is simply not true. Whats more is that even in the peak of discrimination based on anything other than class, there have been individuals who made a ton of money and had those limitations levied. Look up Jack Johnson a champion boxer from 1908-1915 at the hieght of Jim Crow in the USA. He constantly beat up white guys, married a white woman, went to white establishments, bought all sorts of luxuries and sports cars. Broke traffic laws and simply threw money at police.
Does this sound like a society that is truely limited by race? Was there racism at the time? 100% yes. But examples like this show that it is a social construct and that as soon as you get enough money it doesnt matter.

>>1990033
this

>>1988777
Who are you, as a white person, more similar to:
A white small business owner, or an African peasant?
Think long and hard about this one.

>>1991948
An african peasant of course.

By looks and smarts. Both of these are more important than race or class nowadays irl.

>>1988777
A Nigerian lawyer will have more in common with a Russian lawyer than with a Nigerian peasant. Although it ultimately boils down to culture i.e. lawyers have a different culture than peasants and Nigerians have a different culture than Russians.

>>1991948
But I'm not a peasant. The question is who do I have more in common with? A white small business owner, or an African NEET.

The answer is obviously the NEET.

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>>1991921
>>1989956

Class is both material as in the relation to the means of production and a construct in the form of a class identity and consciousness.

>>1992072

Not all social constructs are bad btw. It just means that they require construction through social interaction and cultural praxis.

>>1989892
Kill yourself commie.

>>1988777
Class
The class sutrugle the same everywere it knows no borders

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>>1992082
Nice rebuttal capcuck. Very intellectual.

there are more nationalities than classes?

>>1992072
I do realize that part of it is class identity and consciousness. I am obviously focusing on the material aspect of it.

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Language.

>>1992048
>But I'm not a peasant.
According to communists, you're both of the same class and therefore part of the same struggle.
>The question is who do I have more in common with? A white small business owner, or an African NEET.
The only NEETs in Africa are people too sick and old to work. Maybe there's a few spoiled kids of rich oligarchs, but that's a few out of a billion.

>>1992395
true, NEET seems to be a white phenomenon

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>>1992790
>what are hikikomori

>>1992790
It's more of a middle/upper class thing. I know a few black people that are NEETs.

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>>1992950

There has, since agriculture got going, been a class of people that has been able to be idle. The more competent members of that class created art and philosophy, but I'm sure that there were plenty of well of idle people who did nothing meaningful with their lives.

Hopefully we can implement fully automated gay space luxury communism and everyone can be idle.

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>>1988784
This.

We can make vague assumptions, but there's different kinds of division, and different emphasis placed on these depending upon how a person imagines human society is organised.

Add to that the variety of class structures and grey area classes, and the diversity found between ethnic groups, and you've basically asked the questions "how are people organised and to what degree are these groups divided?"

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>>1988777
Class
>education
>income
>health care
>living standards
>life expectancy
>influence

Nationality
>language
>culture
>religion
>ethnic identity
>>>>anthem and flag

>>1988777
Class. The nation state is a three hundred year old con job.

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>>1989892
>Biology is a social construct.

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>This fucking thread

>>1988890

Thank you for exposing me to this quote. This was my personal view of tribalism for a very long time, but this quote is much more eloquent than anything I came up with.

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Neither. People are more divided by whether they live rurally or urbanely. A wealthy swedish farmer has more in common with a wealthy American farmer than a wealthy swedish urbanite.

>>1994266
Biology isnt a social construct. Racism is though. Having a different set of phenotypes does not make one a different species and although it might give or take some disadvantages it generally will not make or break a race compared to others. Does race exist? Yes. Are any advantages or disadvantages of being said race a social construct? Also yes.

>>1989980
so is autism the great unifier?

>>1988777

Class is a spook.

>>1988777
All 3 make up culture. I'd say that a language barrier is more divisive than race or class.

>>1988803
yes

>>1988777
>Language>Class>Cultural identity>Ethnicity>Nationailty

The reason why people think nationality is more important is because they confuse it with cultural identity. They usually overlap but they're not the same thing.

Class
No one cares what color you are if you have more money than them. This is evident even in the southern United States during the slavery era