A Gnostic Catholic Canon

>>1985237
nah bro, Origen cut off his own dick

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>>1985237
>That which is called by us Genesis, but by the Hebrews, from the beginning of the book, Bresith, which means, ‘In the beginning’; Exodus, Welesmoth, that is, ‘These are the names’; Leviticus, Wikra, ‘And he called‘; Numbers, Ammesphekodeim; Deuteronomy, Eleaddebareim, ‘These are the words’; Jesus, the son of Nave, Josoue ben Noun; Judges and Ruth, among them in one book, Saphateim; the First and Second of Kings, among them one, Samouel, that is, ‘The called of God’; the Third and Fourth of Kings in one, Wammelch David, that is, ‘The kingdom of David’; of the Chronicles, the First and Second in one, Dabreïamein, that is, ‘Records of days’; Esdras, First and Second in one, Ezra, that is, ‘An assistant’; the book of Psalms, Spharthelleim; the Proverbs of Solomon, Meloth; Ecclesiastes, Koelth; the Song of Songs (not, as some suppose, Songs of Songs), Sir Hassirim; Isaiah, Jessia; Jeremiah, with Lamentations and the epistle in one, Jeremia; Daniel, Daniel; Ezekiel, Jezekiel; Job, Job; Esther, Esther. And besides these there are the Maccabees, which are entitled Sarbeth Sabanaiel.

This gives us the significant number of 22 within the Gematria, and parity to the Rose of the Rose Cross.

5 double books (Judges/Ruth, 1/2 Samuel, 1/2 Kings, 1/2 Chronicles, ½ Esdras, and Jeremiah/Lamentations) starting on representation of Hebrew letters that have double forms.

Replace Maccabees with Ethiopic Maccabees.

I dunno what I'd do about the other letters. As far as Mothers are concerned, my inclination is Genesis and Ezekiel but after that...I'm not sure.

>>1985249
And?
1 Corinthians 9:27
Romans 8:13

And I don't even wanna use the Pauline Epistles.

>>1985253
BOOKS OF THE VEIL OF MYSTERY:
4 Baruch. Liber Chanokh. Sefer Yetzirah. Apocalypse of Moses. Gnza Rba. The Qwele of the Peacock Angel. The Thanksgiving Psalms

The Hypostasis of the Logos (Aka, The New Testament)

I want to use the texts closest to the original transmissions and as such probably will limit myself to those mentioned by Ireneaus. The expressed doctrine would preferably be a miaphysite leaning monophysitism. Following the Ebionites I propose a rejection of Paul as Apostate (Remember, Valentinus was almost our 10th/11th Pope) .

SECTION ONE: THE ASSEMBLEY:

The four canon gospels are a given. Matt, Mark, Luke, John.

We keep Acts.

We TOSS the General/Pauline Epistles. (We privelege James over Paul).

We TOSS Hebrews as suspicious and largely irrelevant even if in sound advice (i.e. how Apocrypha gets classed in other compilations).

We KEEP the Pastoral Epistles as an outline of doctrine and life.

SECTION TWO: THE ELECT
Apocalypse of Adam
Gospel of the Lord
Gospel of Truth
Gospel of Thomas
Gospel of Judas
Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians
Gospel of Mary
Gospel of Judas
Thunder: Perfect Mind
The Nassene Psalm
The Hymn of the Pearl
Apocalypse

Whaddya think? Feel free to add commentary, recommendations, additions, and subtractions.

>>1985268
I would add The Matrix and The Truman Show

>>1985268

Which is a better Gnostic creed, this?
...
I believe in One God, eternal Propator and almighty Father, creator and attractor of all visible and invisible beings, the first tridyname amongst the divine Eons.

And in His only son, the divine logos, the prototype of man, the second tridyname, Christ, spiritual and physical light, born of the treasure of light, true God like the Father and consubstantial to Him, without whom nothing was made.

Who became incarnate on earth in the person of Jesus the Savior and the star of the Pleroma, came down here below for us, taking on a soul and a body like our own in the breast of blessed Mary.

Who was manifest in Jesus from the time of his baptism to the time of his passion;

Who spoke to us through his mouth and taught us the very holy gnosis and the holy life, in order to deliver us from the slavery of the Demiurgos and of his earthly Archon, to thus enable our return into the spiritual Pleroma our homeland, as he himself returned there after his death.

Who will come to earth again full of glory to judge the living and the dead;

Whose kingdom shall have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the third tridyname who proceeds from the Father like the son;

Who gives Love with Life, who puts us on the path of truth and holiness, who unifies all beings, who is adored and glorified with the Father and the son;

I believe in one truly universal or catholic Church, the origin on earth of which goes back to that of the human race, but which in heaven constitutes the holy Pleroma, and is as old as God Himself, the perfect being;

I confess the two Baptisms and the three other Mysteries for the remission of sins.

I await, on the completion of the earthly Pleroma, the reappearance of the dead, the Ascension of the Pleroma, lastly the final destruction of the spirits resistant to any conversion, at the same time as the destruction of the hylic (physical) world, the work of the Demiurgos. Amen.

>>1985304
C'mon mate, I'm half serious here.

>>1985306
^Should be noted that this is a fundamentally anti-material/ascetic stance, while what follows is an Dionysian and matter-neutral stance:

"I believe in one secret and ineffable LORD; and in one Star in the company of Stars of whose fire we are created, and to which we shall return; and in one Father of Life, Mystery of Mystery, in His name CHAOS, the sole viceregent of the Sun upon Earth; and in one Air the nourisher of all that breaths.

And I believe in one Earth, the Mother of us all, and in one Womb wherein all men are begotten, and wherein they shall rest, Mystery of Mystery, in Her name BABALON.

And I believe in the Serpent and the Lion, Mystery of Mystery, in His name BAPHOMET.

And I believe in one Gnostic and Catholic Church of Light, Life, Love and Liberty, the Word of whose Law is THELEMA.

And I believe in the communion of Saints.

And, forasmuch as meat and drink are transmuted in us daily into spiritual substance, I believe in the Miracle of the Mass.

And I confess one Baptism of Wisdom whereby we accomplish the Miracle of Incarnation.

And I confess my life one, individual, and eternal that was, and is, and is to come.

AUMGN, AUMGN, AUMGN."

Note that the Creed is divided into 8 clauses followed by three repetitions of the Thelemic form of the Pranava. The first 4 clauses are attributed to the four letters of Tetragrammaton YHVH: the Father (Chaos); the Mother (Babalon); the Union of Father and Mother in the Son (Baphomet); and the Daughter, the Bride of the Son (the Church). The two following clauses describe the essential products of the Mass from the perspective of the congregation. The final two clauses are in the form of confession rather than belief and describe parallels between the occurrences in the Mass and the life of the individual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpKachYTr-4

>>1985268
There is Gnostic exegesis of Paul's epistles.

>>1985311
To restore Israel you have to leave Babylon.

That is the main difference between Practical Christian Gnosis and the EGC.

>>1985304
ok what about Mouravieff, Ouspensky and Gurdjeff

>>1985320
I know but I sorta wanna fundamentally de-emphasize Paul's role here...moreover our best example is The Apocalypse of Paul which contains assumptions about the Father which don't exactly sit well with some of my tendencies but if someone wants to make a solid pitch I'm all ears.

>>1985334
>To restore Israel you have to leave Babylon.
Babalon IS Israel if you admit the Woman Clothed with the Sun as Babalon, which most Thelemites do. We are her remnant sons and daughters in the body of Her Universal Assembly, are we not?

>>1985340
Then why not everything?
I want a core of the the texts that are older, more significant, and most stable across doctrines of cultic groups.

That's why the list of Elected readings are relatively short and don't deal with much Neoplatonism.

>>1985343
Paul has direct revelation of Christ, within Gnosis this is more significant than the idea that church came from Paul, because Paul was also martyred, so obviously something Paul taught broke down the "walls" the same way with Christ.

Like for example, we can see that in the 21st degree of Masonry there is a shield and a poison arrow.

>In all circumstances take up the shield of faith with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one (Ephesians 6)

Paul is an initiate, this reflects Pike's opinion of unbelievers in Prussian Knight

>Slander and calumny were never so insolently licentious in any country as they are this day in ours. The most retiring disposition, the most unobtrusive demeanor, is no shield against their poisoned arrows.

>>1985357
I see, but what about manicheism? keep in mind it was a gnostic religion with about the same geographic reach than abrahamic faiths

>>1985372
I'm fundamentally skeptical of Paul's Gnostic cred.

The martyr thing is a decent point, tho, but you'll probably need more than Elaine Pagels' conjecture to flip my opinion on this.

James was left in charge of Jerusalem, a much more significant position in the early days of the church, and as a blood relative has more insight into the MIND of Christ having (most likely) lived with the dude longer than others (I also reject perpetual virginity here).

>>1985357
Babylon oppresses Israel throughout the Bible, allegorically it is the duality between the world and the spirit, which is the underlying base of all religion.

The "trinity" in >>1985311 is the opposite polarity of practical theology

>>1985376
Coptic Psalm-book maybe? It'd provide the seeds for later elaboration not unlike Thunder does for Pistis Sophia which isn't included.

>>1985380
There is so much more to Paul, considering you have libraries of material why would you deny this one that is a true perspective on Gnostic theology.

>And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God. May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, ...

These terms reference the Tree of Life

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>>1985237
>Gnostic
>Catholicism
>doctrinally sound

>>1985386
>The "trinity" in >>1985311 is the opposite polarity of practical theology
I'd beg to differ but at that point it becomes a matter of mystical interpretation. I'll only say that the people who wrote >>1985306 were fine with >>1985311, largely for the reasons already cited, it's the lack of focus on actual biblical canon and (Gnostic) quasi-canon that was EGA's objection.

How would YOU bridge the gap between those two legitimate (in terms of cult praxis) strains of Gnostic sentiment?

>>1985396
Gnostic Christianity is different than Gnostic Catholicism

>>1985392
>These terms reference the Tree of Life
The Koine Greek leaves me weary of this but you may be correct in terms of endurance and saints' light.

>>1985396
In terms of interior consistency between as many sects as possible, thus far I'm trying to rep Valentinians, Ebionites, Sethites, Qayinites, Ophites, Mandaeans, Kabbalists, Miaphysites and Monophysites and a few others. Y'know, that whole thing about universality (catholicism).

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>>1985409
yeah and the unified atheist league is different from the allied atheist alliance

>>1985413
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fx_I4piqpY

>>1985397
We like to direct the Father, the Mother, and the Son in a different way than Chaos, Babylon, and "Baphomet"

They are polarities. The "Father" is basically on the best scale, Spirit, and the opposite negative paradigm is a negative view of the demiurge. The "Mother" in positive light is divine feminine energy while the "Scarlet" is embracing the negative polarity of whoredom. Then the positive scale of "Son" Christ does the "thelema"(they use thelema in the Bible meaning will) of the Father, while the "Baphomet" does its own thelema.

It is not necessarily "separate" but you see which polarity one embraces leads to different outcomes.

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>>1985412
come on now there is no canonized doctrine of (((gnosticism))) so what are you talking about consistency for?

>>1985428
The farther back you go, the less variability in terms of Neoplatonist-like doctrine, and hence more texts from those early brackets would be more palatable to a general """Gnostic""" audience. I'm well aware these guys were all doing their own elaborations and you could break "Gnostic" down into multiple headers but it's the language we have not the language I want.

>>1985412
Filled with knowledge (Daath) of His (Kether) will (...) in all Wisdom (Chokma) and Understanding (Binah). Walk in a manner worthy of the Lord (Mercy)... May you be strengthened (strength) with all power (Beauty) according to His glorious might (Splendor) endurance patience and joy giving thanks to the Father who has qualified you (Victory) to the inheritance of the saints light (Foundation), he has delivered us from darkness and transferred us to the kingdom (Kingdom) of His beloved Son

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>>1985439
if it was a neoplatonist audience just call it that because there is no such thing as """"""""""consistent gnostic doctrine""""""""""""

>>1985413
A lot of Christian Gnosticism had extreme varieties. One person could read a Nag Hammadi text and tell you why they think Lucifer is the light, and others can read Nag Hammadi texts and tell you that Christ is the light.

Not everyone has the same opinions, so some might accept some and reject others.

The reason why I said they were different is because ECG, or Ecclesiastical Gnostic Catholicism has more of a "canonized" theology and practically forces the negative polarity of religion, the "darker" side of "thelema" not secessarily dark, but if you look here ->>1985311 that is just a subtle manifestation of this "branch" of Gnosis.

Other branches will embrace holier light and there are so many different ideas and interpretations they could break down into so many divisions, that is why Gnosis is often seen as heresy, because some schools do embrace the "heresies" while other have a different interpretations of thee symbols all together

>>1985428
>(((gnosticism)))

Really? Are we really at the point of claiming that sects of Christianity you don't like are Jewish plots?

Are you parents proud of you?

>>1985452
>His (Kether
Incredibly debatable. His can equate with Tifaret. Lemme pull the interlinear back up...

>Him
>αὐτοῦ
Not even Tifaret

>Wisdom (Chokma) and Understanding (Binah
Score on Wisdom. Understanding? synesei can be easily rendered as comprehension.

>Lord
I"d expect Kyriou to be more prominent, but w/e, I'll give you the points on that one.

>Power
dynamei...not exactly beauty in the sense of Tifaret here.

Why is might splendor? Easily renders as dominion.

hikanōsanti easily renders as 'sufficient' which I'd hardly equate to victory.

I'll take back 'light of the saints' but give you 'kingdom'.

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>>1985462
christian gnosticism is an oxymoron and you yourself point out that gnostics cant even figure out what light is and yet you think the distinctions they draw within themselves have any meaning

>>1985465
judaizers are a thing

>>1985474
>judaizers are a thing

And would still bear nothing in common with Gnostics.

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>>1985477
they both hate jesus

>>1985465
>implying you aren't worried about the perfidiousness of the Eternal Hebrew

>>1985462
It's a sticky situation. In there spirit of the nonduality of Thunder: Perfect Mind, there's got to be a nondual middle ground for Creeds.

>>1985483
Oh so you're a crazy person. Are you that dipshit that spergs out whenever someone criticizes the shroud of Turin's authenticity?

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>>1985491
are you jewish?

>>1985488
>implying you aren't worried about the perfidiousness of the Eternal Hebrew

Not even slightly.

EGC's list of Saints (Reuss adds Dante Alighieri, Ludwig von Fischer, Doktor Franz Hartmann and Charles Détré):

Lao-tze
Siddhârtha
Krishna
Tahuti
Mosheh
Dionysus
Mohammed
To Mega Thêrion
Hermês
Pan
Priapus
Osiris
Melchizedek
Khem
Amoun
Mentu
Hêraclês
Orpheus
Odysseus
Vergilius
Catullus
Martialis
Rabelais
Swinburne
Apollonius Tyanæus
Simon Magus
Manes
Pythagoras
Basilides
Valentinus
Bardesanes
Hippolytus
Merlin
Arthur
Kamuret
Parzival
Carolus Magnus
William of Schyren
Frederick of Hohenstaufen
Roger Bacon
Jacobus Burgundus Molensis the Martyr
Christian Rosencreutz
Ulrich von Hutten
Paracelsus
Michael Maier
Roderic Borgia Pope Alexander the Sixth
Jacob Boehme
Francis Bacon Lord Verulam
Andrea
Robertus de Fluctibus
Giordano Bruno
Johannes Dee
Sir Edward Kelly
Thomas Vaughan
Elias Ashmole
Molinos
Adam Weishaupt
Wolfgang von Goethe
William Blake
Ludovicus Rex Bavariæ
Richard Wagner
Alphonse Louis Constant
Friedrich Nietzsche
Hargrave Jennings
Carl Kellner
Forlong dux
Sir Richard Payne Knight
Sir Richard Francis Burton
Paul Gauguin
Docteur Gérard Encausse
Doctor Theodor Reuss
Sir Aleister Crowley

>>1985499
I'm trying to have a giggle mate.

>>1985498
Not even slightly. I think the Old Testament is every bit as crazy and retarded at the New Testament. Though I suspect there's no answer I could give that would satisfy you on that.

>>1985473
God is the Crown.

To be filled with ἐπίγνωσιν (epiGNOSIN) knowledge (Daath) of the will (thelēmatos) θελήματος of Him (God, Crown, Kether) in all wisdom (σοφίᾳ SOPHIA) and understanding (συνέσει synesei)

This is the Kabbalah "Trinity" From Daath (Gnosis) to God / God's will (The Highest in Christian theology, therefore the Crown), filled with Wisdom (2) and Understanding (3)

>so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
This is an example of Mercy, the quality of Mercy
Strength
>being strengthened

>with all power
Power comes from the heart, Aloah va Daath, it is the power of the Daath in verse 9 manifesting in this verse.
>according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience,
Glorious might (Hod) Endurence and Patience leads to Victory.

The light of the saints is the foundation, the second chakra, this is where controlling this energy, "the waters of the loins" one can go transmute this sexual energy, hence the light of the saints.

We go to the Kingdom, (Kingdom) of the Son when we leave the darkness, and the darkness can anything that goes against the law and the will of God

>>1985474
>christian gnosticism is an oxymoron and you yourself point out that gnostics cant even figure out what light is and yet you think the distinctions they draw within themselves have any meaning
What it really is that everyone has to find the light for themselves. Two people don't always think the same, and sometimes doctrines are manufactured to suit one's interest, but for everyone by themselves has to open their bibles and books and discern for themselves.

>>1985500
> no Carl Jung
> no Boethius

>>1985503
Sorry. Sarcasm and humor don't carry over, and I legitimately didn't know if you were another loopy anti-semite (a lot of the occultists around here seem to be Evolaists).

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>>1985505
no way you are definitely at the very least slightly jewish

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>>1985519
light is meant to be shared, if they dont share it its because they dont have it.

>>1985523
>ask question
>receive answer
>reject answer

It's like trying to talk to someone with body image problems.

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>>1985529
oy vey

sounds like something a psychiatrist would say

>>1985521
>occultist
>Evolite
Pick one and only one.

>>1985512
>God is the Crown.
Cool, but I don't know how you draw that rendering from αὐτοῦ. Synesei doesn't carry the transcendent connotation I'd couple with a supernal attribution.

It IS a nice attribution system and I hate to be the mystical text-interpretive party-pooper but I'm just not seeing it in the Koine Greek man.

I may side closer with that "Light of the Saints" interpretation but that opens a whole different can of worms in terms of relation to the Tantras which it's pretty clear there's some weird parity with Hebrew systems (Ain/Sahaja).

>>1985526
You are right, Christ tells us to shine the light
>People don't light a lamp and put it under a basket but on a lamp stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.

He also tells us not to cast our pearls before swine
>Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

How can someone learn how computer programming works if they never learned the alphabet? How can someone tell you about algebra if you never learned how to add or subtract? How can you add numbers without knowing the numbers?

>>1985534
More of a psychologist thing. If I were a psychiatrist I'd be focusing on pharmacological solutions. But I'm sure you have an irrational fear of any and all psychological or psychiatric help; which is tragic, as it always seems to be those who most need it that fear it.

>>1985542
>Pick one and only one.

Isn't occultism a component of Evolaism?

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>>1985549
>mfw

>>1985551
>Isn't occultism a component of Evolaism?
Nah, you're think of LARP that's a component of Evolaism. Nigga renounced his pagan tendencies and died a Christist.

The good news is that I don't have to abandon MY paganistic tendencies because I've got Gnostic Catholicism ;^)

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>>1985549
im referring to mystery schools specifically who won't clue you in on the #realsecret until you've #advanced

>>1985551
you oughtta be a professor or something is brandeis hiring?

>>1985561
I've an academic text on the components of Gnostic initiation in my normative library.

>>1985542
>Cool, but I don't know how you draw that rendering from αὐτοῦ.
Because the prayer starts in verse 3, "We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you," then in 9 "we have not ceased to pray for you" obviously we know who they are praying to

>Synesei doesn't carry the transcendent connotation I'd couple with a supernal attribution.
In the context, it is supernal understanding, it might not be your taste of "mystic greek work for understanding" but it still is understanding.

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>>1985563
do you collect stamps too?

>>1985561
>im referring to mystery schools specifically who won't clue you in on the real secret until you've advanced

That is because there is a lot of information, which is always available, but you have to be careful of the sources you get them from, and what material you choose to read, and you have to be ready to understand the next set of information before you can advance otherwise it what use is reading it all in one day that is it? It is because Gnosis is supposed to be experienced.

As for others, they do not give handouts because they are basically "casting pearls before swine",

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>>1985575
what it is is a scam to get into your pants and pockets

>>1985567
Nope.

>>1985564
Neither is that the Crown nor the Will itself, and I can make a decent argument for Tifaret based on the rendering of Lord.

You could make a stronger argument, imho, by leaning on Εὐχαριστοῦμεν and the stations of either versions of Gnostic Mass which are less overtly Kabbalistic in a macrocosmic sense (not unlike some of Crowley's other initiations) but more at an internal succession of emanation.

My only point is that it looks like a rendering of correlation after translation which while significant in spots may be overreaching a touch.

I'd say you're at least half right, but it's hard for me to swallow that Paul is talking about a Sefira system that's still like a thousand years from being formulated when you look at things more contemporary to him like Hekalot Rabbati and the rest of that mystical tradition.

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>>1985589
then you should start because it sounds like you need better hobbies

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>>1985595
>i'm only here to spam doggos and fuckpost am i kewl yet guise?

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>>1985601
i know you are but what am i

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>>1985605
A fucking retard?

>>1985587
You don't have to join a "secret society" or Ecclesiastical Gnostic church. You are the only person you need to learn anything you want.

>>1985589
God is the highest for in Christian theology, therefore God/God's Will is the Crown. The qualities then come after God. If it were an algebra equation, God would be the Highest Variable, therefore is the Crown.

Paul also speaks in symbols and parables, this is just one reference to Kabbalah Tree of Life. Even "if" the "tree of life" same out "way later" you have to take into consideration how long it existed before people knew about it, and the fact that it was already manifested by God before it was uttered.

>an ancient commentary on part of the Hebrew scriptures, attached to the biblical text. The earliest Midrashim come from the 2nd century AD, although much of their content is older.
>According to Jewish tradition dating from the 13th century, this knowledge has come down as a revelation to elect saints from a remote past, and preserved only by a privileged few. It is considered part of the Jewish Oral Law by the majority of religious Jews in modern times, although this was not agreed upon by many Talmudic and medieval scholars, as well as many modern liberal rabbis and a minority of Orthodox rabbis.

The information was always available, so Paul's mystery reference to this tree of life was already known, because even Solomon hints at it constantly, or Paul was revealed this parable from Christ during his series of revelation.

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>>1985613
seriously?

>>1985626
>even Solomon hints at it constantly
I'd posit we have much more solid ground here.

>Even "if" the "tree of life" same out "way later" you have to take into consideration how long it existed before people knew about it, and the fact that it was already manifested by God before it was uttered.
Hence my reference to other forms of this knowledge and repping Sefer Yetzirah in the canonical list.

Alright, you've baited me, what's your list of most solid mystical Paul, I wanna crack open the interlinear a bit more before I pass out.

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>>1985626
>You are the only person you need to learn anything you want.

>>1985640
I'm not baiting you. Paul is clearly misunderstood by everybody even myself, but a lot of gnostics and protestant sects might deny him, and a lot of orthodox and catholic sects just say the words "knowledge, wisdom and understanding" but they are just saying them, not really explaining them, but sometimes using them to draw people in with all the pretty words they are using.

Those are my bias stereotypes, but you see what mean.

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>>1985559
What the hell does that have to do with being a legitimate occultist?

The Church Itself has cranked out plenty of occultists. Trithemius et al.

Evola might not have been a GOOD occultist, but he was still an occultist. Don't be intellectually dishonest, Ape.

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>>1985683
wtf is a 'legitimate occultist?'

>>1985237
>Long ago the Freemasonic movement alongside Martinism decided ain't no Pope gonna keep them away from the Eucharist.
No Pope did to begin with. And very few Masons are Martinists, nor does it preclude them from belonging to other sects of Christianity.
Furthermore, most Grand Lodges preclude OTO fags, and all the Rosicrucian groups certainly do.

>>1985749
>"The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion."

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

>most Grand Lodges preclude OTO fags
Not in the US, I know PLENTY of OTO associated Freemasons. The OTO no longer claims to make Freemasons so it isn't even irregular.

>All Rosicrucian groups
What is the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn, then?

>>1985683
Again I'm having a giggle but frankly I don't trust someone who was weak enough in the praxes to renounce them to tell me much of value.

>>1985268
What a horrid canon.

The only worthwhile Gnostic canon is:
Gospel of the Lord (+ Epistles)
Gospel of Thomas
The Shepherd of Hermas
Apocryphon of James

Go /GnosticMarcionism/ or go home.

>>1986779
>Marcionism
>catering to dualism in a system with huge stacks of nondualist materials
Not to mention assumptions about the Father that don't sit well with me compared to Platonic notions of Demiurge.

There are plenty of Gnostic groups that didn't view Demiurge as an entity of abject malevolence.

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>>1985253
>no Wisdom
>no Sirach
...

>>1985268
i think you should treat the genuine pauline epistles the way you propose to treat hebrews, on the grounds that i love them

>>1985306
>I confess the two Baptisms and the three other Mysteries for the remission of sins.
what are these?

>>1985500
can they all be saints if many deny the existence of others, or would, in the other sense, given a rifle and a clear shot?

i guess so, what's the point then? what did odysseus, mohammed and Dante have in common aside from being famous and well traveled?

How many weirdass angels/archons/deities did you just add to the list of things to revere besides the trinity by taking in all those other books?

Also by taking in mandean teachings you have to ditch abraham and the holy ghost who are seen as evil by them, dont you?

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What's this Church position on licking refugee feet?

In other words how do I know that this isn't just another open borders NWO cult like mainstream Christianity?

>>1987776
EGC rites and teachings, as well as a hint at Crowley's sexual praxes.

>>1987839
>aside from being famous and well traveled?
>"I am a native of Corinth, a freeman of the city of Athens, the ally of Mitylene, and that I am travelling peacable to Heliopolis, the City of the Sun, in search of Light and Truth, of Wisdom and of Peace.... I demand participation in your MYSTERIES"

>>1987961
Lots.
Sorta. I'm incorporating it for discourse on Mahazael, the Angel of the Logos. You can decide for yourself if you want to ditch certain patriarchal figures for others. There's something to be said for looking to John the Baptist as a gateway to the Mysteries.

>>1988308
>NWO cult
You're talking to a Thelemite mate.

>>1988609
>You're talking to a Thelemite mate.
What's that supposed to mean?

>>1985237
Wat

>>1988797
That means I'm in an ritualistic NWO cult.

>>1988808
Gnostic Catholicism, mate, get with the program.

>>1988904
So you're a Jew puppet that supports multiculuralism and open borders for everyone save for Israel?

>>1988916
Nope.
I support open borders for Israel too.
And a society in which the primary mechanism of legislation is Spirit Cooking.

For the folks griping about:
>>1985311
Yank out CHAOS for Teli
Yank out BABALON for Babrbelo
Yank out BAPHOMET for Eloah Va Daath

>>1985237
I missed you Ape of Thoth. The only good tripfag on this board. I'm not even into occult shit but your threads are always quality.

thoth how do I summon a succubus

>>1989028
Blow your brains out then hit me up in the astral flux and we can chat.

>>1989009
Thanks mate, it'd be cool of some other Gnostic leaning folks (other than the Paulfag) had some contribution ideas because so far this is a two man council on canonicity.

>>1988941
>I support open borders for Israel too
Kek. So you're not even an insider, just a useful idiot then. Get it.

>>1989089
Are you just here to complain about jews ad infinitum? Because there's already a board for that.

>>1986646
>http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html
That's only Catholics. And there have always been plenty of Catholic members who don't care about the Vatican's petty tiff.
>Not in the US
Ergo i said most, not all. Because the OTO's beliefs are at many points contrary to Masonry's teachings (good and moral men, useful to society, educated, dutiful to God, etc), even the places which don't outright ban them, membership is an unwritten justification for a blackball.
>What is the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn, then?
Not a Masonic Rosicrucian group?

>>1989140
>good and moral men
How does Crowley's program of morality outlined in Duty conflict with Freemasonry? Be specific please.

>useful to society, educated
Thelema emphasizes both of these.

>Rosicrucian
You simply said Rosicurcian, not specifically Freemasonic Rosicrucianism. Even then I can quibble because GD is a natural comasonic extension of SRIA.

>>1989160
>How does Crowley's program of morality outlined in Duty conflict with Freemasonry?
Firstly, "Do what thou wilt" conflicts with temperance and prudence. Plus, there's all the sex and turd stuff. And doesn't he shit talk the Bible? I'm not an expert in Crowleyism, just going from what's been said.
>You simply said Rosicurcian, not specifically Freemasonic Rosicrucianism.
Which is my mistake, aye.
>Even then I can quibble because GD is a natural comasonic extension of SRIA.
Doesn't mean anything without recognition. Any member could make any extension of a SRIA or a Masonic group and have it mean bugger all unless it gets recognition.

>>1989192
>Firstly, "Do what thou wilt" conflicts with temperance and prudence
A fundamental misunderstanding of Will, not as desire, but closer to Schnelling's trajectory of natural being:
>where the principle of God before God is divine will striving for being, the present age, which is still part of this growth and hence a mediated fulfillment, and a finality where God is consciously and consummately Himself to Himself.
I suggest you read up on Crowley.

>sex and turd stuff
Crowley ate shit on a dare to get him to shut up. And that's tame as fuck compared to an Aghori. Moreover, did God not command us to be fruitful and multiply?

>And doesn't he shit talk the Bible
I dunno would you qualify the Gospel of St. Bernard Shaw as shit talking the Bible?

>recognition
Yeahyeahyeah, my point is only that categorization is fuzzy here.

Besides, given that I'm a highly irregular initiate, I'm already sympathetic to irregular orders be it OTO or Memphis Mizraim or Weishaupt's Perfectibilism. So that's my bias. I'm of the unpopular position that the Grand Orients are every bit as 'legit' as the UGLE.

>>1989204
>Schnelling's
Schelling's, pardon.
Some folks put it closer to Neitzche or Schope but I think that's too far off of Crowley's commentary on the Holy Books.

The guy going on earlier in the thread about Paul and the Divine Crown of Will is pretty close to this interpretation of Will, as is St. Augustine.

>>1985237
>Gnostics
>Roman Catholics
Double Heresy!
Also, that's a contradiction in the meaning of the words.

>>1989225
Catholic for universiality of doctrine, Gnostic for the theme of doctrine.

The point of the thread is to find the common denominators of the various sects of Gnostic practice to come to an agreed upon core (Kurt Rudolph is indispensable for this).

First few posts are my offering, feel free to contribute if you'd like.

>>1989204
>I suggest you read up on Crowley.
Don't have a great deal of interest. From various articles i've seen he was mostly a LARPing conman who got high on his own supply. The OTO was better before him.
>Crowley ate shit on a dare to get him to shut up.
Is... is that meant to be a defense? And what about all the turd poetry?
>Moreover, did God not command us to be fruitful and multiply?
Yea, but there are other rules along with that, relating to decency and morality.
>I dunno would you qualify the Gospel of St. Bernard Shaw as shit talking the Bible?
I thought there was stuff like "You'd have to be mental to listen to the Bible"?
>I'm of the unpopular position that the Grand Orients are every bit as 'legit' as the UGLE.
Not as unpopular as it should be, given that it's flat out wrong. But yea, i am a big fan of M:.M:., and (since the Secret School of Wisdom came out) the Illuminati rituals. The latter at least has a possibility of being worked again.

>>1988609
>"I am a native of Corinth, a freeman of the city of Athens, the ally of Mitylene, and that I am travelling peacable to Heliopolis, the City of the Sun, in search of Light and Truth, of Wisdom and of Peace.... I demand participation in your MYSTERIES"
If i understand you, you're saying that they're all truthseekers who had some sort of initiatory experience, that's both a low bar to clear for sainthood and not necessarily the case for dante the poet. You could say that was true of dante the character which is fair enough in a list that includes odysseus and actually isn't unreasonable come to think of it. I guess you could also say that these aren't named as paradigms but as recognizable instances which is why the focus on fame. So, thank you for anwering my question. Unless I misunderstood your answer, in which case what did you mean?

>>1989269
>Don't have a great deal of interest.
Then...why are you commenting? Obviously you're interested enough to complain about a dude you don't have knowledge on.
>LARPing
How did this meme get so pervasive?
>The OTO was better before him.
The OTO was theoretical and nonfunctional before him.
>meant to be a defense
Nope, but an explanation that he wasn't chewing shit all day every day as a part of praxes or core identity.
>turd poetry
Really? Having a few giggles with fart poems is suddenly grounds for outright dismissal?
>decency and morality
You've yet to explain how the morality system laid out in Duty conflicts with the points of Freemasonry.
>con't

>>1989593
>93
>you'd have to be mental
With his Plymouth Brethren upbringing, Crowley was "deprived of all English literature but the Bible during the whole of his youth." (Equinox of the Gods p. 48) He later bragged that he had developed in boyhood -- and retained to adulthood -- the ability to find nearly any verse in the Bible quickly, without the aid of a concordance. The Bible is the literary infrastructure of Crowley's thought. In Liber 888, Crowley claimed "an intimate knowledge of the Bible so deeply rooted that it seems hardly unfair to say that it formed the whole foundation of my mind," and declared further, "I am the truest of all Christians." (Crowley on Christ pp. 20, 196) O.T.O. Frater Superior Hymenaeus Beta has done a tremendous favor to the biblically-unschooled by calling out Crowley's ubiquitous biblical quotes and paraphrases in the recent editions of Magick. A quick glance at the "Authors and Works Cited" index in Magick shows well over seventy biblical citations or references in the text of Book Four. These various examples of biblical relevance to Thelemic magick are not intended to be exhaustive. Indeed, Crowley's background among the bilbliolatrous Plymouth Brethren may have equipped him with a grasp of the Bible exceeding that of any "Christian" occultist to precede him. There is ample evidence that he employed that grasp throughout his systems of magick and philosophy. He was committing humorous understatement when he wrote the following, in his "Literature Recommended to Aspirants": The Bible, by various authors unknown. The Hebrew and Greek originals are of Qabalistic value. It contains also many magical apologues, and recounts many tales of folklore and magical rites. (Magick p. 455)
>con't

>>1989599
>flat out wrong
The GO would say your flat out wrong in your position and I'm flat out wrong for being fine with both. What blows me away is that people get REALLY fucking up in arms that their way is the ONLY correct way of doing X even in the face of multiple valid competing systems. The GO/GL schism seems about as goofy as the East/West church schism. God forbid some group reconstitute in a way some other group doesn't like lest we bust out the crates of industrial strength butthurt creme. Typhonian OTO is just as much OTO as the Caliphate. The Grand Orient is as Grand as the Grand Lodge. Vajrayana takes you to Attainment just as quick as Saivism.

>>1989554
I was mostly commenting on the 'travel' remark, but:
The Gnostic Saints are generally considered to those who have embodied the essential principles of Thelema and/or formed a lineage of adepts through the ages.

Here's an EG list if you wanna get away from Crowley:
>con't

>>1989612
"Praise be to Thee, O Father of all Fatherhood, Thou, the unknown God, who was before the fall of the sparks into the darkness of this aeon, for the glorious messengers of the light of Thy everlasting and redeeming Gnosis. Especially do we praise and thank Thee today for the following holy and enlightened teachers and knowers of truth: Valentinus of Rome; Basilides of Antioch; Carpocrates of Alexandria; Bardesanes of Syria; Mani of Babylonia, Martyr; Priscillian of Avila, Bishop and Martyr; Paul of Samosata, Bishop; Peter of Bruys, Martyr; Amalric of Bena; David of Dinan and William of Paris; Bogomil of Dragowitza, Bishop; Peter Waldo of Lyons; Joachim of Flora; Esclaremonde de Foix and the Cathar martyrs; and all the holy souls and wise sages who have in any way or form, under whatsoever guise and appearance attained to and taught the true and ancient Gnosis of God. Grant, O Boundless One, that inspired by and following their most noble example we also may see the light of Thy Gnosis and assist in liberating Thy sparks of light from the chains of darkness, ignorance and malice which afflict them in this aeon.

>>1989593
>Then...why are you commenting?
I wasn't commenting on Al himself like a biography, just about the connexion with Masonry.
>How did this meme get so pervasive?
Yea, one of those words you don't even realise you're using. I hate that.
>The OTO was theoretical and nonfunctional before him.
My point still stands.
>Having a few giggles with fart poems is suddenly grounds for outright dismissal?
Even if that's what it was, it's hardly the behaviour of a paragon of decency.
>Duty conflicts with the points of Freemasonry.
From what i've read.
>Find yourself to be the centre of your own Universe.
Big no-no. Core tenant of Masonry is belief in a superior power.
>Never permit the thought or will of any other Being to interfere with your own.
Restricts growth and learning.
>Do not repress or restrict any true instinct of your Nature; but devote all in perfection to the sole service of your one True Will.
Contradicts temperance, prudence, and service to God.
>Abstain from all interferences with other wills.
Arguably against wise council and aid.
>Worship all!
'Nuff said.
>Establish the Law of Thelema as the sole basis of conduct.
Implying absolute morality.

>>1989612
>The GO would say your flat out wrong in your position
Which doesn't matter, coming from non-Masons.
>The GO/GL schism seems about as goofy as the East/West church schism.
Except it's not about recognising the Pope's power. It'd be like one church deciding to worship Odin as well, and still calling itself Christianity. They made a different group, they don't get to be recognised as the same.

>>1990030
>Core tenant of Masonry is belief in a superior power.
Thelema has this too, fwiw.

>Restricts growth and learning.
That implies that if you find yourself at the feet of a teacher, it's not plain that your Will is to learn.

>temperance, prudence, and service to God
Absolutely NOT if those qualities are already in Nature. Also, note the capital letter, and go thumb through Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster.

>Arguably against wise council and aid.
"Man as the right to speak as he will" is not a contradiction against council.

>Implying absolute morality.
You certainly seem to imply much the same with the Christism.

All this butthurt, why? Because one faction chose to accept seculars? Does this not undermine Fraternity?

Church of Satan mutated from atheistic idolatry to Egyptian theology in the Temple of Set. Guess what? They're both still Satanism. The Savisit mutated into Vajrayana after state sponsored debates. Guess what? They're both still tantra. The Grand Orient said 'shit, if the GL can reconstitute to revise their constitution, our charter's just as old if not older, so can we' and became the GO revising a handful of the, what, 25 through Mackey, 7 through Pound, landmarks. Guess what? They're still Freemasons. You can add whatever adjective you'd like, 'fraudulent', 'irregular', 'para', but it's still Freemasonry.

>>1991256
>Thelema has this too, fwiw.
Then what about the stuff about being Gods of ones own universe?
>Absolutely NOT if those qualities are already in Nature.
Arguable, even with the capital. But interesting enough that i'll try to learn more.
>You certainly seem to imply much the same with the Christism.
Where was I doing that? Masonry accepts almost all religions and beliefs.

>Because one faction chose to accept seculars?
And women, and change the rituals (less of an issue in general, but to do with how they did it), and allow active meddling in politics, and discussion of religion.
>Does this not undermine Fraternity?
No. Why would it?
>our charter's just as old if not older
It specifically ain't.
>They're still Freemasons.
They aren't, is the thing. They've changed the Monopoly board for a set of Yahtzee dice, but decided they want to keep the name.
If you were making the argument for one of the unrecognised, but otherwise regular groups? Fine. But being irregular means that they are no longer playing by enough of the rules to call themselves part of the group.
They're no more Freemasonry than Golden Dawn is SRI[A]. They just used to be connected.

>>1989599
Not to mention his wide-ranging knowledge of and interest in christian theology

>>1991346
>Then what about the stuff about being Gods of ones own universe?
The Holy Guardian Angel is the higher power here. In MWT Crowley asserts it's entirely external to you and NOT Higher Self.

>It specifically ain't.
>UGLE: Constituted 27 December 1813 from older transmissions (1723 and beyond)
>GO: Constituted 24 June 1773 from older transmissions (1725 and beyond)

>They're no more Freemasonry than Golden Dawn is SRI[A].
But Golden Dawn and SRIA are still Rosicrucians, like GO and GL are still Freemasonry. I don't get how hard this is to grok. It's like a Methodist pointing at Calvinist and crying 'see they're not Christian!'.

Anyway this thread isn't even about Freemasonry.

You feel like contributing to the OP's trajectory or are you just here to promulgate your Grand Lodge?

>>1991382
>UGLE: Constituted 27 December 1813 from older transmissions (1723 and beyond)
>GO: Constituted 24 June 1773 from older transmissions (1725 and beyond)
So it's pretty obvious that England is older. Not sure what your point was. Heck, GOdF was regular at the time of amalgamation. Only later did they throw themselves out the door.
>But Golden Dawn and SRIA are still Rosicrucians
Yea, that was a lousy analogy. Should have used the usual baseball one, but thought it might be more up your alley.
>It's like a Methodist pointing at Calvinist and crying 'see they're not Christian!'.
No, it's like a baseball player pointing at a cricket player who calls himself a baseball player just because his game involves a ball and a bat.
>You feel like contributing to the OP's trajectory or are you just here to promulgate your Grand Lodge?
Yea sorry, i just got distracted and this was more fun. You shouldn't have made up stuff about Freemasonry and/or Martinism if you didn't want that happening.

>>1991405
>clearly
Doesn't look so clear to the Freemasonic historians, it only appears to look clear to anyone that's in a position to have a stake in the 'legitimacy' game (I don't, and for the record often tell people NOT to join this or that weird group).

>Should have used the usual baseball one, but thought it might be more up your alley.
But it's easily abusable.
I posit it's the difference between an aluminum and wooden bat. You say they're playing rugby and calling it baseball.

>You shouldn't have made up stuff about Freemasonry and/or Martinism if you didn't want that happening.

Gripe at Ecclesia Gnostica Apolistica's history outline and Koenig's essay on EGA/EG -> EGC transmission, not me. I'm just the messenger. A servant animal of Thoth, if you will, perhaps some kind of debased primate.

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>>1988904
>NWO
What do you people think of Trump?

>>1991420
>Doesn't look so clear to the Freemasonic historians
Of course it does. GLE formed in 1717 (or 1721, they're alleging now). It has primacy. And almost as important, everyone else legit agrees.
>You say they're playing rugby and calling it baseball.
Exactly. Glad we're on the same page. They're both ball sports, but that's where the similarities end, unless one decides it likes the press associated with the other, so it takes the name.
GO Italy, and RGL Italy are aluminium and wooden bats. GLNF and GOdF are rugby and baseball.
>Gripe at Ecclesia Gnostica Apolistica's history outline and Koenig's essay on EGA/EG -> EGC transmission, not me.
Fair enough.

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>>1991434
>GO Italy, and RGL Italy are aluminium and wooden bats.
>GOI
Nigga that's where P2 was (is?) and you call the GOdF a whole different sport? To my eyes it's rather the opposite, where as GOdF looks more like UGLE the GOI looks batshit.

>>1991431
About fifty fifty. Pic related more or less sums up my take on things.

Wanna talk about Gnosticism?

>>1991459
>Nigga that's where P2 was (is?) and you call the GOdF a whole different sport?
Yea? One rogue lodge doesn't spoil the bunch, or mean the Grand Lodge equates to one which actively encourages doing shit like that. I forget which is which anyway. I think GOI is recognised by most of America (thanks to WW2), where RGLI is recognised by Home and the rest.

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>>1991459
>Wanna talk about Gnosticism?
Yeah, I'm interested to know about how legit Introduction to Magic actually is. I don't really have a solid knowledge on the subject, so I don't want to fuck up by following bad advice. Also, is there a way to self-iniciate?
On Trump, I personally think he's a russian asset, just like wikileaks and the alt-right. Making America go against it's geo-political self interest may be a disaster for the entire world.

>>1991470
>Grand Lodge equates to one which actively encourages doing shit like that.
But they did. Publicly they said 'oh yeah it's over' and privately initiates were still being fed into P2.

That said I'm not well versed on Italy's Freemasonic history either. I just know I'd be immediately more suspicious of GOI than GOdF.

That said, you know if the GO ended up setting up shop in America again after those midwest Orients went rogue? l'DH is still a thing where I'm at.

>>1991489
>Introduction to Magic
Evola?
4 out of 10 on a good day.
If you want to go traditionalist read source texts, anthropology, and history, not Evola's/UR's reactionary interpretation thereof.

You can do better on Vajrayana by reading Vajrayana. You can do better on the Greek end by going to the GMP (though to be fair the text does have some decent advice for barberous names).

Here's my library, pick something and start:
https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ

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>>1991505
Thanks m8.
Pic unrelated.

>>1991518
No problem, and pic very related, at least in the case of the utility of phenomenology.

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Bump.

>>1991491
>But they did.
>privately
I'm not defending them. But a corrupt dude in the gold brass is different to having a constitution which says "fuck the popo."
>you know if the GO ended up setting up shop in America again after those midwest Orients went rogue? l'DH is still a thing where I'm at.
Yea, that's plenty common(ish), they're not recognised as Masons, so they're not subject to ETJ.

>>1993860
>different to having a constitution which says "fuck the popo."
Point taken.

>>1993860
No, I mean we had some GO chartered local bodies crop up across the midwest that had their charter revoked but they still kept going. I was considering joining one of them until I found out about the revokations, though l'DH is still an option, it'd be nice if there were more on the table than them.

>>1993917
>No, I mean we had some GO chartered local bodies crop up across the midwest that had their charter revoked but they still kept going.
Yea, that's sorta what i mean. They don't have to worry about a central authority keeping them in check, so they can do what they like where they like.
LDH would certainly be the safer option, as they have a central authority. And according to the episode of Roundtable, they're actually pretty rad for the most part.

>>1993971
>they're actually pretty rad for the most part.
The comasonry is nice.
It'd be nicer if we could convince the Grand College of Rites to fucking reconstitute the M&M in all the glories of its pagan tendencies.

>>1985311
Ever imagine what the opposite of the circle might be in the sense of form?

>>1994000
>000
I'm not exactly sure I follow. I think I do, but I'm not certain.

>>1994015
I think it could be described as the form of chaos itself. Meditating on it seemed to open my comprehension of more dimensions

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>>1994027

Tetrahedron right. More than that

>>1994032
Just an exercise that helped objectively speaking

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>>1994033
A rectified five cell.
I stumbled on it look at Crowley's temple notes for the Paris Working (Maybe Bartzabel, I can't remember).

>>1993707
...is that dan harmon?

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>>1994057
>dan harmon
Zizek.

>>1994058
the resemblance is uncanny, I'd make some kind of a lacan joke if i were smarter

>>1994058
>>1994057
https://soundcloud.com/astagnantsleep/harmontown-96-clip

capitalism!

>>1994050
I feel the pyramid is the wrong symbol. We live learnedly on a circle with the chaos seemingly inside of said circle. The multidimensional diagrams are examples of a microcosmic chaos. Although they could be in or outside of any circle.

>>1994064
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80X0pbCV_t4

>>1994068
https://soundcloud.com/radioactium/experimental-memeing

>>1994071
First, this is amazing, thank you

Second >that disgusting guy in canada justin bieber
>>1994068
Uncanny I tell you!

>>1993996
Totally. But they legally can't. GOdF owns the patent, and they're massive Jews. GCR just keeps records, anyway. It doesn't control anything.

>>1994158
I thought that technically speaking the GCR was completely within its rights to reactivate that body? Or is that only if they had the patent along with it?

Also I thought the GOdF would occasionally authorize a local body to initiate through the first couple of M&M degrees.

>>1994168
>Or is that only if they had the patent along with it?
That. Beats the hell out of me how something like that can have a patent to begin with, but that's the answer i was given.
>Also I thought the GOdF would occasionally authorize a local body to initiate through the first couple of M&M degrees.
Me too, but they just don't care enough. The only time you see M&M is "illegally", and typically done by regular Masons for funsies.

>>1994309
>typically done by regular Masons for funsies.
Word on the grapevine is that there's a few bodies of M&M in Canada.

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>Gnostic
>Catholicism

What the fuck are you doing?

I've scrolled past this multiple times and ignored it, but each time I just furrow my brow.

>>1994326
I'm in Toronto, how do I contact them?

>>1994359
>stop liking things I dislike
No.

>>1994387
I honestly have no idea man.

Bump to break the b8 stream.