Chinese Occupation of Tibet

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>>1984128
The weak should fear the strong.

An example of why always pacifist never works

>>1984128
I believe you mean "Western China" comrade ;)

I feel the Tibetans should stop rebeling and feel grate to receive china's protection. China doesnt want to fuck with you either so stop making ur lives shitty by making china scared u will rebel.

Tibetans are religious nutjobs. Han Chinese are oppressive Imperial Japan 2.0 with a victim complex

When a totalitarian communist dictatorship is better than your Buddhist theocracy, you just shut up about independence and begin ripping off Western fools for their money.

>>1984166
But China is attempting to control their religion?

>>1984189
China is attempting to GENOCIDE them.

Let's not confuse "The Tibet Theocracy was garbage" with "The CCP should be allowed to suck Tibet dry and murder every last Tibetan and replace them with Han colonists".

>>1984189
China’s disregard for fundamental freedoms is demonstrated in the continuing large-scale demolitions at the internationally renowned Tibetan Buddhist institute Larung Gar – the largest Buddhist academy in the world.

>>1984189
Yes i went there last summer and there was a post every 20 mins on the highway from the gov and they check ur passport and id and shit. Super annoying. Also a lot of corruption from local police and gov. From what i gather its to surveillance the people in case of uprising. Its understandable since china is made up on such massive demographics that if tibet were to go independent, then the other parts of china (ex.taiwan, mongolia, ethnic muslim groups, and etc) may follow suit and it will be chaos all over. I think china controls their internet for this reason, bc they dont think it would be safe if the current age china suddenly adopted full on western liberties. Just a reminder modern china isnt even 100 years old.

>>1984203
>"Han colonization of Tibet is GENOCIDE!"
>"African colonization of Europe is not white genocide, you racist!"

When I was in China/Tibet the Tibetans were lovely, welcoming people and Han Chinese are the worst people in the world so free Tibet imo

>>1984217
I thought it was the Pakistanis and Arabs we had to worry about, now I can't enjoy West Indian food either? Man, racism is no fun

>>1984203
So can you explain? I'm not denying you, I just want a more cohesive understanding and summary of what's going on there.
>>1984209
Didn't know about that. Just found a source from BBC. Thanks.
>>1984212
Whoa, fuck. That's crazy. Is there any source on experiences like yours I could use? Of course "I found it on /his/" won't go over well in an academic setting. And also I was under the impression that Mongolia was independent?

Has someone complained that it was a theoarcy yet?

>>1984282
Inner Mongolia i meant. Srry desu its personal experience so no academia reference. But you could say considering how big china is and all the different ethnicities its proper to keep it under control. Taiwan is already a strain on the gov with their call for independence. Ohh also do some research on the religious ppl of Tibet. They are deeply devout to religion and thinks of dala lama as some god king and will do anything he says. And we know the lama is not exactly in best relation with the chinese gov so if he start shit and tell all the ppl to go apeshit, its gonna be bloody, remember majority of locals are very religious. Srry no source all personal experience.

>>1984203
They are not trying to kill them. They are just trying to swamp them with han settlers. It worked very well in Xinjiang so China would be dumb not to pursue that policy in Tibet.

>>1984171
Kind of this. China isn't as brutal as Imperial Japan and its borders are unlikely to extend much further unless Russia collapses internally, in which case I could see Mongolia being annexed, as it should be. Fucking horse niggers will get whats coming for them.

>>1984316
yes
>>1984171
>>1984175

>>1984273
When I was in London all the muslims I met were nice upstanding folk and the white """""people"""" were all fucking chavs or had that trademark anglo look of perfidy.

You guys have no respect for the tibetan people or their culture and beliefs. Fuck all of you

>>1984128
I used to think I was in favor of a free Tibet until I saw how China's borders looked minus Tibet. It just looks fucking ugly.

>>1984343
Sounds about right. Treating a guest well is a very laudable part of their culture

>>1984212
>if tibet were to go independent, then the other parts of china (ex.taiwan
>ex.taiwan
t. Mainlander

>>1984317
>Taiwan is already a strain on the gov with their call for independence.
It already is independent you fucking Mainlander. Holy shit

>>1984358

It'd work if East Turkestan and inner Mongolia became independent as well. Also much of historical Tibet is outside of the TAR too. Ironically all this would barely make a dent in the overall Chinese population

>>1984364
>>1984369
>Already independent
Kek you forgot to say farewell to your britsh 100 year rule and return to papa. Just bc u say u are "independent" doesnt mean u are. Get over it white bois, even the UN recognize Taiwan is part of china

>mfw when taiwanfegs say they rule china when in reality its other way around.

>>1984341
Always pops up. Its a way to easily spot a lunatic leftist and/or a Chinese shill

>>1984128

Tibet prior to the Chinese occupation was a theocracy, almost feudal. Very cool, but life was literally nothing to the peasant under monk rule. Their standard of living went up under the Chinese at first, but is now declining again. Freedom would be most beneficial for Tibet now.

The Nazi's actually had a really good relationship with Tibet, Himmler was infatuated with Central Asia and Shambhala mysticism.

Also Tibetan Buddhists practice literally black magic, like by name.

>>1984128
It's a done thing at this point. The west has been whining about it ever since it happened in the 50s but the PRC's stance has basically been "idc lol", which over the decades has tempered the free tibet movement as people realise the situation is just not going to change. Chinese strategy in the region seems similar to that employed elsewhere, i.e. encourage mass Han migration and encourage calm through economic growth, and that should continue to work fine as long as the economy holds up. China is in it for the long-run, they're willing to endure some unrest and reputational stains in order to get what they want in the long run.

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>>1984128
It is pretty justified.

Tibet during the 1700s, was a mess of competing Monasteries who ruled like Feudal kings. It surrendered its sovereignity to China -willingly- in a deal they made during the First and Second Gurkha wars, when Tibet was invaded by the Nepalese Gurkhas and fragmenting Tibet was no position to resist them. China literally had Tibet fall on its lap.

Fast forward to the decline of the QIng in the late 19th Century, Tibet suddenly want out of the Chinese Empire due to the failures of the Qing. The Chinese saw this as a betrayal and a rebellion, but cant do anything about it when after the 1911 revolution, in 1912, Tibbs declared independence w/ British backing. Multiple Chinese warlords & the ROC vowed that they will Make China Great Again by retaking the territory of the last Imperial Dynasty which by that point they consider China's proper borders. Ergo they made it their mission to one day retake Tibet.

After the Warlord Period, Civil War, Second Sino-Jap War, WWII, Resumption of Civil War, Mao Zedong achieved that promise when Tibet was retaken and the British et al can't do anything about it.

>>1984343
>PERFIDIOUS ALBION ETERNAL ANGLO REEEE
Hi German poster.

>>1984411
You have to consider that we might just have a moral obligation to stand up for Tibet at every chance - not just for the Tibetans but for the world and our children. You want that dominating? A dictatorship that throws u in jail and tortures you for owning a photo of the Dalai Lama?

>>1984411
Still Tibet had an interesting culture. It's a pity to think it will just die off within the next fifty years.

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>>1984391
>he actually think the PRoC controls Taiwan
You can't make this up.

>>1984422
Why is a generation bound to unquestioningly uphold the decisions of a dead one?

>>1984422
I don't care if Tibet was a theocracy. Just destroying a whole people for that isn't justified.

>>1984422
>muh rightful clay

Human beings do not live for hundreds of years. Ancestral claims are a spook.

>>1984422
China pretty much has claim to most of the world as well since it is the middle kingdom after all.

>>1984435
Im not saying the party controls taiwan but it certainly would be wrong to deny it as China territory given the history before and after brit 100 years.

>>1984443
>Chinks fugging died building roads and railways going up to Tibet. Infrastructure = Genocide.
>Han settlers- the people who are educated enough to make the area economically viable- being sent to Tibet = genocide.
k

>>1984466
It's not Chinese territory since they don't control it. No one cares about historical claims. The ability and will to enforce your will is the only thing that matters.

>>1984429
>Moral obligation
The west doesn't have much credibility in these kinds of matters, China can spout whataboutisms all day. Like in the SCS matter they can point to some old document showing the legitimacy of the occupation, and while it might not convince the western public it is enough to stall negotations, and that's all they need. China doesn't need to win the tibet debate. They just need to not lose for the next 2 generations, then it won't matter anymore.

I'm not saying I support what the PRC's past or current actions, but there are plenty of other examples of similar things happening around the world and the west is probably better off trying to intervene in other cases where it can actually have an impact.

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>>1984456
Oh btw, your pet ROC also makes the same claims. More since they really want to recreate the old Qing borders.

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>>1984470
Enforce will you say?

>>1984467
That's resource extraction from the mountain ranges of Tibet. Not only is Tibet a natural border but it's a natural resource for a growing country like China. They have been mining and making bucks from tibet for their own benefit.

There's also the fact that all of their major river originates in Tibet. Which is very crucial.

>>1984467
There won't be a Tibetan people next when the next century comes. That's the truth. Uyghurs are well on their way out already. The natives of inner Mongolia no longer exist as a distinct people already. The provincial Han dominated government maintains a few folkloric dance groups (of mostly ethnic Hans) and buildings to lure tourists but the local culture is dead, its remains embalmed as a spectacle.

>>1984476
>Utilizing the region economically.
>Bad.
K

>>1984128

Wonderful for the average Tibetan and their lives dramatically improved under the Chinese rule, bad for the lamas and landowners who got fucked over by the Chinese collectivization reforms on land. The latter composes the exiled Tibetans who support the Dalai Lama.

>>1984401
Any source on the "standard of living" claim? And also, what about the religious backlash after having the Panchen Lama "removed"? The religious control happened pretty much immediately right?
>>1984422
Very interesting. I didn't know Tibet originally gave themselves to China. Source?
>>1984429
This is a main issue I'm addressing in my papers actually.
>>1984432
I actually know a really nice Tibetan person, and learning about their culture is really incredible.
>>1984471
Seeing as how the western economy and eastern economy are pretty much irreversibly intertwined at this point, wouldn't the West have more impact than implied?
>>1984476
So at this point is it less cultural imperialism and more resource extraction?

>>1984486
Never said it's bad. The fact that they're building roads and infrastructure is not in any way a charity. It's simple resource extraction. The people of tibet benefits little to none of it and in return their identity, culture will be destroyed within few generations.

>>1984467
Well yeah.
The Chinese government is genociding the minority ethnic groups to subvert seperatist movements.
Just move in more and more Han until there are no mor Uyghurs left.

>>1984488
All the good jobs are taken by ethnic Hans and the people are getting increasingly despaired as they see the end of their culture coming. They feel alienated as neighboring city blocks turn entirely foreign and unwelcoming. It's not lamas who are rioting out immolating themselves for the most part but ordinary people getting increasingly desperate.

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>>1984484
>ywn go back in time and prevent communist China from committing cultural genocide

>>1984490
It's an imperialistic agenda for China. Extract all the resources and suppress/remove the native's culture/religion/region, basically a total hegemony at this pont. The language/religion/travel restrictions are there to slowly erode the Tibetan way of living.

>>1984501
>The Chinese government is genociding the minority ethnic groups to subvert seperatist movements.
Western education everyone. If the Nationalists won there wouldn't be any minorities.

>>1984490
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_under_Qing_rule#Gorkha_invasions
Though Qing hegemony Tibet started when they establisheda protectorate there vs, the Dzungar Khanate

>>1984501
Well there are still as many Uyghurs. It's just that they become individuals alone in a sea of Hans or small impoverished groups cornered in ghettos waiting for assimilation as the children learn a foreign language at school.

>>1984484
>The natives of inner Mongolia no longer exist as a distinct people already.
The irony of saying this while Inner Mongolians literally are the only Mongols left practicing their own culture as opposed to Mongolia and their Sovietization.

Not to mention why the kek would China "Genocide" one of the more loyal minorities. The only muh Independents group there is founded by Mongol diasporas in fucking America.

>>1984513
>Western education
That's a bit redundant.
Just call it education.

>>1984518
Thanks, appreciate it.
>>1984511
Does the Tibetan culture really pose so much of a threat to Chinese interests that they feel like they have to destroy it?
>>1984522
Also, I haven't heard about the Han immigration there. From context clues I'm guessing that China is giving incentive for Hans to move there, they're getting the best jobs, and through that the Uyghurs (as well as the culture) are dying out through assimilation?

>>1984518
China also sent their army to repel the Japanese from Korea. And recently Vietnam.

China has a history of sending their army to help out their tributaries.

>>1984513
And that makes the current situation good? There still won't be any minorities left. It will just take a century or so of assimilation instead of a straight up genocide.

>>1984536
The Confucian elites had some issue with the Tibetan Buddhist getting special treatment back in the days due to Buddhism being a big thing to some of the emperors.

Currently Tibetan culture is an issue due to it not being Han and the Tibetans not acknowledging themselves as Chinese. This is one of the major thorn to the Chinese becuase the Tibetan still see themselves as separate from the "one China" that mainstream China preaches.

>>1984347

You're damn right, they're all retarded and eat nothing but dairy.

>>1984518
The difference is that the old Chinese regimes never attempted to actively extinguish people. I doubt the Tibetan would mind much if Chinese suzerainty over the land was nominal, with little change in the daily life of people instead of the current large scale Han colonization.

>>1984536
>Also, I haven't heard about the Han immigration there. From context clues I'm guessing that China is giving incentive for Hans to move there, they're getting the best jobs, and through that the Uyghurs (as well as the culture) are dying out through assimilation?
IIRC there were two police organizations in china, where one was closer to a military organization and you had to be han to be part of it. For a career you must speak mandarin, but I don't think that's too strange really.
The goverment build up domestic rails so hans could settle areas with large minority populations, a lot of the infrastructure was built for those han chinese.
I was chatting with my professor like maybe 4 years ago and he mentioned that it had gotten a little better. In previous visits they had segregated schools even and the han school were much better off, but in his last visit they were integrated.

>>1984551
>And that makes the current situation good?
The alternative would be heavily Sinicized minorities such as the Zhuang or She would be considered Han.

> There still won't be any minorities left. It will just take a century or so of assimilation instead of a straight up genocide.
As long as there are advantages to being a minority there will be individuals who claim minority status.

You even have Han who have some non Han ancestors claim to full blooded minorities so they can reap the benefit.

Equating Sinicization with genocide is ludicrous.

>>1984175
>is better than your Buddhist theocracy,
>le tibetan independence people want le theocracy meme

.5 Renminbi has been deposited in your account.

>>1984432
>it will just die off within the next fifty years

it's already been transplanted, USA has second largest Tibetan Buddhist population. Might actually be fastest growing religion in USA, other than potentially Catholicism or maybe Mormonism.

>>1984578
Islam

>>1984569
>IIRC there were two police organizations in china, where one was closer to a military organization and you had to be han to be part of it. For a career you must speak mandarin, but I don't think that's too strange really.
There is no requirement to be Han to be in the People's Armed Police but speaking Mandarin Chinese is a given for any government position.
>The goverment build up domestic rails so hans could settle areas with large minority populations, a lot of the infrastructure was built for those han chinese.
The railways were originally built to supply troops in the Himalayas, especially after the Sino-Indian War where the Chinese were overrunning their supply lines during the offensive.

>>1984583

God damn it I thought the Mexicans would outbalance them.

>>1984572
White people in America claiming to be 1/50th Cherokee don't help keeping the Cherokee culture alive. You're on /his/. We enjoy studying vibrant, lively, distinct cultures. A dead culture is always a tragedy in an increasingly uniform world. From our point of view (and according to the admittedly broad UN definition) what China is doing is clearly a genocide.

>>1984569
That's not better. It means that there are enough pupils to force Mandarin onto Tibetan kids.

>>1984572
Genocide is destruction of another culture. Sinicization of tibet is done by the state to destroy the Tibetan culture/identity. It's by definition a genocide. Genocide doesnt have to be a violent confrontation, you can commit genocide in many ways with suppression, forced migration, displacement, etc.

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>>1984557
So rather than let them have cultural and religious autonomy while still using the area for resource extraction and creating new jobs from said resource extraction for the natives, they'd rather engage in cultural imperialism and cause Tibetan sentiment to worsen? That doesn't really make sense to me.
>>1984569
Minorities being the native inhabitants of Tibet?
>>1984572
What advantages does a minority in Tibet have?
>>1984588
>Sino-Indian War
hoo boy I forgot about that completely. How much does that tie into the Tibet occupation?

I may have my work cut out for me this time.

>>1984128
>a fucking theocrat

i hope this fake buddhist cult leader will fuck off soon

>>1984601
Roman cuckolics are only 17% of the population. They were 26% 20 years ago

>>1984128
Read journey to the west

>>1984626
Indo-China relation will always be about Tibet as long as China continues to antagonize Tibet. Indo-china war is due to the new border definition due to Chinese takeover of Tibet. Both sides claim borders, they overlap and war ensued. A more direct message of the war was about India sheltering the Tibetan refugees and dalai lama.

>>1984626
It's not about the now but about the future. If you destroy the native culture and settle your own people you ensure the area will always remain under your control or at least under your influence no matter what kind of setback (defeat at war, civil war) you meet. China plans long term. It doesn't want to have peripheral dominions taken away from its control again.

>>1984626

>So rather than let them have cultural and religious autonomy while still using the area for resource extraction and creating new jobs from said resource extraction for the natives

History teaches us that shit never works like intended and it simply leads to the region going nationalist at some point and declaring independence which in turn leads to civil wars, people of some specific ethnic getting tossed into the holiday camps and foreign powers taking advantage of the situation

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>>1984128
Totalitarian communist mass murderers

vs

Extremist theocracy

East Asia was 40k

>>1984671
That image just screams extremist theology

>>1984659
Yeah just like how Hong Kong or Taiwan is oh so loyal to a Mainland state rite?

>>1984690
Hong Kong as a separate entity is no more. The local government are all CCP now and the people have no choice but to eat up their propaganda. Any calls for democracy is squashed.

>>1984676
I know

It just doesn't scream like a yak breeder being impaled on bamboo spears in front of the village for daring to make eye contact with the Lama

>>1984611
Loss of traditional culture is inevitable,you can't blame Sinicization for modernity.

Even the formation of a "Tibetan" identity was the result of conquest.

>>1984624
How is Tibetan culture being destroyed? All I see in this thread is unsubstantiated claims repeated ad nauseam.

Tibetan Buddhism isn't the only religion that suffers from oppression.

>>1984626
>What advantages does a minority in Tibet have?
Affirmative action.

>>1984656
Got it. I'll look into it more. Sino-Indian war in 1962 right?
>>1984659
So if this is obvious, what is being done about it (if anything)? What really can be done about it?
>>1984666
Nice trips, Satan.
I suppose you're right. But if regardless of whether the oppressing nation makes life subjectively better for the oppressed, there's bound to be nationalism and all the problems that ensue, then what purpose is there really for systematically destroying a people and culture in the eyes of literally the whole world? Which also refers back to my previous question of what can be done about it, if anything?

>>1984690
Now imagine the current situation with an Taiwan-aboriginese majority Taiwan instead of a Han majority one. The Chinese case becomes much weaker.

>>1984698
Tbf, Hong Cucks are pussies.

Also tbf, as a Filipino cunt, Hong Kong sure loves prattling about how different they are from the mainland but when they have to be racists towards Southeast Asians, the Chinese pride starts being thrown about.

>>1984702
S-Seriously? Have they taken it too far?

>>1984713
It's called propaganda

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>>1984698
To play Devil's Advocate here, isn't the majority of Hong Kong ethnically Chinese to begin with? What separation from the mainland did they really have before the modern era of China? Weren't they a secession by China to England to use as an economic port?
>>1984703
>affirmative action

>>1984703
No one cares about traditional culture. The obsession with it is /pol/ bullshit. It's all about keeping a distinct, lively, culture that will of course evolve under modernity. The Tibetan culture is not going to evolve. It will just die out.

>>1984719
The Han ideology is different from mainland to hongkong (was) to Taiwan to Singapore to Chinese American.

>>1984703
You mean reverse affirmative action. Good luck landing a managerial job if you're not Han.

Well there is actually an advantage. The one child policy does not apply to minorities. Not that it matters when there are ten settlers for every Tibetan kids born.

>>1984724
Yep the Tibetans are fucked right now. To evolve they need drag ideas, however given that their region is literally closed off politically, culturally, religiously and physically, thats impossible. The only "frsh" idea they get is Han sinized version. Since they don't like that, their economy will continue to tank while the Han migrants will get richer off the land.

>>1984719
The people of Hong Kong are predominantly Han ethnically, but culturally and linguistically they're pretty different. Not only does The Party have goals that take a big steaming shit on Hong Kong but their autistic fear of any form of non-compliance with corporate slavery means they are (trying to) change Hong Kong into something that isn't, well, Hong Kong, on the cultural, linguistic, and economic level.

It'd be like if South Carolina had stayed it's own country after the Civil War and only became part of the US again in 2000.

>>1984704
Nothing can be done. China is a security council member, its military is fairly strong and, well, the plight of the Tibetans is hard but who would fight for them? They will die out along with the other minorities and that's it.

>>1984744
Well in all fairness an opposition to traditional culture like the Chinese are doing currently would breed contempt. It's no wonder why the native Tibetans are clinging on to their traditional culture so much. If they were given more room to move, they'd have more room to adapt.

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>>1984203
>China is attempting to GENOCIDE them.

>>1984364
>>1984369
[Citation needed]

>>1984392
Not an argument

>>1984443
How exactly have they been destroyed?

>>1984505
>It's not lamas who are rioting out immolating themselves for the most part but ordinary people getting increasingly desperate.
[Citation needed]

>>1984719
Mainlanders are fucking retarded. Literally nobody likes them

t.Chinese dispora

>>1984719
>affirmative action
Exemption from the one child policy and bonus points on exams.

>>1984724
> It's all about keeping a distinct, lively, culture that will of course evolve under modernity.
Entirely subjective. Modern day Han are culturally distinct from their ancestors.

>>1984732
>The Han ideology
No such thing.

>>1984736
>You mean reverse affirmative action. Good luck landing a managerial job if you're not Han.
Bias that isn't enshrined in the law.

All I'm seeing is the idea that a Han boogeyman exists solely to eradicate Tibetan culture.

>>1984566
>The difference is that the old Chinese regimes never attempted to actively extinguish people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_people

>>1984703
>Affirmative action.

Doesn't really apply though. Minorities STILL face discrimination in hiring and jobs. It's just an empty thing to look good in China.

>>1984624
>Genocide is destruction of another culture.

No, it is not.

>>1984788
Han boogeyman is solely to erase non Han. Tibet just happens to be the most vocal and one that gets the most attention, never the less they will become extinct due to Han policies.

>>1984788
>one child policy is being phased out
even so it's probably the best for a minority population to reproduce as much as possible
also
>making it easier for disenfranchised minorities to get higher educations
what a fucking crime, I'll call the UN

>>1984656
No. The border conflicts are a result of the Indian occupation of numerous Tibetan territories.

>>1984780
t. Cultural cuckold

>>1984799
Acts committed with intent to destroy in whole or parts a national, ethnic, racial or religious group. Tibet fits all categories in this. UN has a pretty substantive definition that also includes culture as well.

>>1984765
>[Citation needed]

>http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-16164639

>Taiwan is an island which has for all practical purposes been independent since 1950, but which China regards as a rebel region that must be reunited with the mainland - by force if necessary.

>http://www.infoplease.com/country/taiwan.html
>The Republic of China today consists of the island of Taiwan, an island 100 mi (161 km) off the Asian mainland in the Pacific; two off-shore islands, Kinmen (Quemoy) and Matsu; and the nearby islets of the Pescadores chain. It is slightly larger than the combined areas of Massachusetts and Connecticut.

>http://wikitravel.org/en/Taiwan

>Taiwan is an island nation located off the coast of southwest of Okinawa, Japan and north of the Philippines that is governed by the Republic of China since 1945.

Does that suffice?

>>1984795
>Doesn't really apply though. Minorities STILL face discrimination in hiring and jobs. It's just an empty thing to look good in China.
Source?

>>1984800
>Han boogeyman is solely to erase non Han.
CCP actively discourages Han Chauvinism no amount of scapegoating will change this.

What are these so called Han policies?

>>1984795
Any credible source for this so-called discrimination?

The Economist claims the opposite
http://www.economist.com/news/china/21707220-tibetans-culture-changing-their-own-will-well-force-plateau-unpacified

>>1984829
Han chauvinism is a core component of what makes a Han from non Han.

>>1984823
Not what you claimed.

>Tibet fits all categories in this.

Gonna need a credible citation for this claim.

>>1984827
Oh wow, completely unacademic sources.
Here's the reality though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_2758

>>1984834
[Citation needed]

>>1984834
>Han chauvinism is a core component of what makes a Han from non Han.
If this was anywhere close to the truth ethnic minorities simply wouldn't exist.

There is no singular "Han" identity.

>>1984830
(((economist))) that doesn't confirm to my /pol/ views so im going to disregard it in favor of memes

>>1984846
>I'm going to ignore all these sources because lol they don't agree with me

Do you genuinely think because the UN stopped recognizing them, they stopped being independent?

Are you genuinely posting Wikipedia of all things and accusing others of using bad sources?

>>1984858
The Economist is a firmly pro-West magazine. But at least it isn't as delusional and historically inaccurate as half the posts in this shitty thread.

>>1984871
Especially these ones:
>>1984765
>>1984778
>>1984788
>>1984799
>>1984829
>>1984846

>>1984870
>Do you genuinely think because the UN stopped recognizing them, they stopped being independent?
Well, yes. That's how international law works.

>Are you genuinely posting Wikipedia of all things and accusing others of using bad sources?
Here's the UN legal report.
https://web.archive.org/web/20101128023816/http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter4.shtml

>>1984881
Asking for a source when controversial claims are made, is not delusional. Actually, it is perfectly reasonable.

>>1984830
Read your own source. The Tibetans aren't even allowed to learn and teach their own language. One person did and he got arrested.

>>1984902
That's not what you claimed anon

>>1984871
>Delusional
>Believes Han are out to get minorities.
>Believes Han Chauvinism plays a role in the day day life of an average Han Chinese.
You tell me.

>>1984885
The UN also appointed Saudi Arabians to it's human rights council. I hardly think they're credible at this point. Hell, they can hardly enforce themselves.

I'd also like to know why China is a single party state, whereas Taiwan has more than one. Or why half of the sites earlier refer to it as a separate country.

>>1984910
Oppression of people, their language, religion would fall under discrimination

Took a while for this to devolve into complete bullshit

Thanks for the sources and arguments guys, I appreciate it.

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>>1984128
The vast majority of modern nation states have forcefully occupied different ethnicities and assimilated them (or at least tried) through violence and demographic shift. If they want independence so bad they can die trying, if not then assimilation is exactly what they deserve.

>>1984765
I wasn't arguing with you. Just pointing out what you are.

>>1984823
Except there's no intent?

>>1984713
It's actually a really fascinating anthropological study. The Tibetan theocracy back in the day kept many death practices and caste systems that were unique-ish. Priests' serfs (?, thralls? Peasants? NOt sure how to translate) used to be bound for life, often extending through generations, in a kind of similar way to China's older landlord systems. The priests would fashion flutes, cups and drums out of their dead serfs' bones. Priests exercised immense authority over daily life (and perhaps death).

It was savage, metal as fuck and absolutely fascinating.

>>1985461
Hell, the sky burial thing has to come out of a pretty crazy cutural space

>>1985536

I thought that was zoroastrians.

>>1984467
Demographic displacement is genocide desu

>>1984486
>Economically marginalizing Tibetans in their own homeland and putting Han Chinese in charge
>Not colonialism

K

>>1984488
>bad for the lamas and landowners who got fucked over by the Chinese collectivization reforms on land. The latter composes the exiled Tibetans who support the Dalai Lama.

[Citation Needed]. Tibetan refugees haven't stopped arriving in India to this day. Why is it that the people who were supposedly "liberated" are fleeing?

>>1984572
>Equating Sinicization with genocide is ludicrous

If you're eliminating the Tibetan language by forcefully imposing monolingual Chinese-language education on Tibetans, then that's cultural genocide

>>1984702
Did that ever actually happen Sempai?

>>1984703
>>1984736
>>1984788
>>1984829
>It's another "Han Chinese bitch about muh reverse discrimination" episode

You fuckers bitch more than white bois on /pol/.

Look up studies by Zang Xiaowei, Han Enze, Reza Hasmath, Andrew Martin Fischer, Hu Xiaojing, Margaret Maurer-Fazio, and Wang Shiyong to see how prevalent job discrimination against ethnic minorities and Han Chauvinism is in China.

>>1985645
>Chauvinism

lol

Don't know why you people keep replying to the chinese shill

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>>1985603
>If you're eliminating the Tibetan language by forcefully imposing monolingual Chinese-language education on Tibetans, then that's cultural genocide
Is this why almost every damn sign in Lhasa is written in 2 or 3 languages? One of which is always Tibetan?

Sure is genocide, scrub

>>1985657
Putting up street signs in Tibetan doesn't mean shit when you're eliminating Tibetan-language education and jailing any Tibetans who protest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/world/asia/china-tibet-language-education.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/31/world/asia/china-tibet-tashi-wangchuk.html?_r=0

>>1985603
>forcefully imposing monolingual Chinese-language education
Not targeted/limited to Tibetans. Mandarin is expanding at the expense of southern Sinitic vernaculars.

>>1985645
>You fuckers bitch more than white bois on /pol/.
The government promotes a multi cultural "China" from the dawn of time,Han Chauvinism goes against their goals.

Whether or not a segment of the population(Han isn't homogeneous) subscribes to Han Chauvinism is irrelevant.

There's plenty discrimination based on region/wealth regardless of whether one is Han.

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>>1985675
Ah yes, the "I was born in a monolingual country" cunt.

You do know in countries like mine, with subnational groups, we teach them the lingua franca of the land in schools? Trust me, it isn't genocide. If anything, if we don't teach them Lingua franca, they'd yell marginalization or some shit.

>>1985690
I think he cares about the fact thst yheir native language isn't taught. When they could just make it irrelevant and no one would bitch about it.

>>1985692
*their

>>1985680
>Not targeted/limited to Tibetans. Mandarin is expanding at the expense of southern Sinitic vernaculars.

But the Chinese constitution is supposed to protect minority-language education. And Tibetans evidently care a lot about their language and want to be educated in it.

>The government promotes a multi cultural "China" from the dawn of time

I'm well aware. And ordinary Han Chinese will bitch more than white people about affirmative action policies and so-called "reverse racism".

>Whether or not a segment of the population(Han isn't homogeneous) subscribes to Han Chauvinism is irrelevant.

It's relevant if the widespread image of ethnic minorities among Han Chinese is "people who like to sing and dance and who need the help of Han Chinese to develop". Attitudes based on Han chauvinism affect how Han employers view ethnic minority applicants.

>There's plenty discrimination based on region/wealth regardless of whether one is Han.

What's your point? Because Henan ren suffer discrimination means that discrimination towards ethnic minorities is no big deal? Any kind of discrimination is bad.

>>1985690
Haven't the Moros been chimping out for over a hundred years and you still haven't subdued them? You're in no position to be championing your ethnic policy Flip.

>>1985711
No only since the 60s or 70s. General MacArthur out them in their plsce by 1912

>>1985711
>1 out of 8 major ethnic groups.
I'm sure if we were such genocidal freaks, the others wouldve broken off.

>>1985713
*put
*place

>>1985704
>But the Chinese constitution is supposed to protect minority-language education. And Tibetans evidently care a lot about their language and want to be educated in it.
Then the blame lies solely on the government. Expansion of a lingua franca isn't directed at Tibetans but all of China.

>I'm well aware. And ordinary Han Chinese will bitch more than white people about affirmative action policies and so-called "reverse racism".
Might be because of how influential those national exams are in comparison to other countries.

Those advantages are substantial enough that individuals with overwhelming Han ancestry try to register as a minority.

>It's relevant if the widespread image of ethnic minorities among Han Chinese is "people who like to sing and dance and who need the help of Han Chinese to develop". Attitudes based on Han chauvinism affect how Han employers view ethnic minority applicants.
Anecdotal,but other than Uighurs most people simply don't give a damn(not like Han can tell apart most minorities without an id card).

Han Chauvinism is nowhere as prevalent as you are claiming or central to Han identity(which is supplanted by regional identities).

>What's your point? Because Henan ren suffer discrimination means that discrimination towards ethnic minorities is no big deal? Any kind of discrimination is bad.
You act as if Han are some hivemind that patronize minorities and treat every ethnic minority as the same.

My point is that discrimination exists amongst the Han community and Han attitudes towards Uighurs isn't necessarily going to be the same as let's say a Manchu.

>>1985731
>Then the blame lies solely on the government.

That's exactly my point retard.

>Might be because of how influential those national exams are in comparison to other countries.

I get how important the gaokao is, but Han Chinese act like every ethnic minority takes the gaokao. What do extra points on the gaokao mean to a Tibetan yak herder who never graduated from middle school? Furthermore, even if they take the gaokao, extra points doesn't help ethnic minorities get jobs after they graduate.

>Han Chauvinism is nowhere as prevalent as you are claiming

If the widespread image of ethnic minorities is that they're primitive and only good for singing and dancing, how is that not Han chauvinism? And if you look at studies by the authors I cited in >>1985645 their research shows that many Han Chinese employers don't want to hire ethnic minorities cause they view them as stupid and lazy.

>You act as if Han are some hivemind that patronize minorities and treat every ethnic minority as the same.

I'm not saying they're a "hive-mind", but there are still widespread attitudes towards ethnic minorities that are patronizing

>My point is that discrimination exists amongst the Han community and Han attitudes towards Uighurs isn't necessarily going to be the same as let's say a Manchu.

Yes, certain minorities such as Manchus and Koreans don't suffer from discrimination. That doesn't mean that discrimination towards Tibetans and Uighurs isn't a problem.

>>1985779
>That's exactly my point retard.
Then don't act as if national policies only apply to Tibetans for the sole reason of oppression.

The CCP is far from being perfect but I can only imagine what the KMT would have done if they let Han Chauvnism run rampant.

>I get how important the gaokao is, but Han Chinese act like every ethnic minority takes the gaokao. What do extra points on the gaokao mean to a Tibetan yak herder who never graduated from middle school? Furthermore, even if they take the gaokao, extra points doesn't help ethnic minorities get jobs after they graduate.
Just because it doesn't benefit a Tibetan nomad doesn't mean its applicable to urban Tibetans.

Affirmative action was made to help minorities not hinder them.

>If the widespread image of ethnic minorities is that they're primitive and only good for singing and dancing, how is that not Han chauvinism?
Which minorities? Whose views? None of your claims are universal or representative of government policy.

Like it or not,the CCP reinforced ethnic identity by inventing labels for disparate minority groups. As I stated before regardless of how some Han act they are against this type of behavior(unlike Republican era China)

>I'm not saying they're a "hive-mind", but there are still widespread attitudes towards ethnic minorities that are patronizing
Go visit China,there are many opinions that cannot be contained within a 4chan post.

Seriously,the world isn't black and white.

>Yes, certain minorities such as Manchus and Koreans don't suffer from discrimination. That doesn't mean that discrimination towards Tibetans and Uighurs isn't a problem.
Why are Manchus,She,Zhuang,Hui etc. conveniently ignored when it becomes clear they have a much more amicable relationship with the Han majority?

I never denied or defended discrimination,stereotypes or ethnic supremacism.

What I have an issue with is your attempts to tar everything with the same brush.

When I saw this thread, I assumed it was going to be nothing but wumaos spouting their "we wuz liberators of serfs" bullshit.

I'm proud of you /his/

>>1985828
>>1985828
>Then don't act as if national policies only apply to Tibetans for the sole reason of oppression.

Did I say it's for the "sole reason of oppression"? No, my point is that the Chinese constitution is supposed to protect ethnic minorities right to be educated in their native language, and the government ignores the law in order to push monolingual education because they believe it will help ethnic minorities. They ignore that Tibetans want to learn Chinese, but also want to be mainly educated in their native language, and then they jail any Tibetan who protests this policy for separatism.

>The CCP is far from being perfect but I can only imagine what the KMT would have done if they let Han Chauvnism run rampant.

Well we don't live in the world where the KMT won, so the CCP patting itself on the back for being better than the CCP is an incredibly low standard.

>Affirmative action was made to help minorities not hinder them.

And my point is Han Chinese bitch about affirmative action policies even though they're often times policies no one asked for (such as the 两少一宽 policy), and only benefit a small number of minorities.

And in the case of the 加分 policy, it can actually hurt minorities later on because employers assume they're stupid for getting points added to their gaokao score.

>Which minorities? Whose views? None of your claims are universal or representative of government policy.

So the countless images of ethnic minorities on tv doing nothing but singing and dancing does nothing to reinforce paternalistic attitudes towards ethnic minorities? And one study found that the majority of articles on ethnic minorities in People's Daily from 1949 to the present portrayed ethnic minorities as in need of development from the Han and as unhygienic. http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/14631360802628459

>>1985837


Is it possible to not fully hate the Chinese government while not being labelled a wumao

>>1985828
>Go visit China,there are many opinions that cannot be contained within a 4chan post.

我在中国读研究生两年多了,我的论文题目就是针对少数民族的就业歧视,我也在微博上和知乎上看过你们对少数民族的有歧视性的态度无数次。请不要以为我们老外都不会了解你们的中国,谢谢。

>What I have an issue with is your attempts to tar everything with the same brush.

What I'm saying is that while not every ethnic minority suffers outright discrimination or is rebelling, there are still widespread Han chauvinist attitudes that view ethnic minorities as primitive, and these attitudes have consequences. For instance, rubber plantations in Xishuangbanna didn't hire ethnic minorities for many years because the Han foreman assumed ethnic minorities were too stupid to grow rubber. http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/10225706.2006.9684131

>>1985901
Of course, but portraying all of Tibetan culture prior to 1959 as nothing but a theocratic hell hole with serfdom makes you a wumao.

>>1985894
>so the CCP patting itself on the back for being better than the KMT is an incredibly low standard.

Fixed

I can't be assed to read the whole thread right now, but butter tea is just about the best thing ever. All credit to the Tibetans for that particular invention.

>>1985965
When I went to the Tibetan plateau I couldn't stand that shit, I only drank it out of politeness. How could you possibly like it?