Why the majority of artists post-1968 are left wing?

1868 more like

>>1982839
to make good art generally requires empathy.
left wing is the empathetic wing.
thus most popular artists are left wing.

>>1982890
>to make good art generally requires empathy

Dude what are you talking about? That's not true

>>1982890
>good art
>post-1968

Because leftism thrives only where it is theorized and sung about, not where it is practiced.

because the right-wing are nostalgiafags which prevents them from making anything new

rock music has black and white proletarian roots

>>1982839
Right wingers have real jobs.

>>1982839
Right wingers lack creativity

>>1982839
>post-1968
More like post-1800 maybe. And I mean pushing liberal agenda by that. Artists were always leaning towards to left views, since the existence of humankind.

>>1982890
>left wing
>empathy

Is this a joke?

>>1982839
Right-Wingers in general don't like art. There are exceptions of course, usually Catholics who are more like leftists as people but fall into the right wing camp because of ideological incompatibility between religion and secularism.

>>1983170
Compared to right-wingers, left-wingers probably have at least a little bit more empathy due to their more outward looking viewpoints. This is just objective, you're butthurt that empathy is a valued trait and right-wingers don't have as much of it. A real right-winger wouldn't give a shit and ignore ridiculous liberal social ideals.

>>1982839
Because is "cool", "cult" and "edgy" and a good image is pretty important to artists. Maybe now is time for right-wing artists.

>>1983139
>real jobs
>doing less money

>>1983201
Addendum: Remember most of artists of action are right-wing types.

War is shit and there was a lot of it going around. Kinda obvious

>>1983197
Modern right-wingers have more empathy for those that they view as their own people
Lefties would thrown their own countrymen under a bus for brown strangers
Each is empathic in it's own way

>>1983219
Source?

>>1983222
The Refugee Crisis

>>1983225
Didn't realize I was in a thread with a Doctor Collecting data on human attitude towards other ethnicities. My apologies

>>1983233
I forgive you
t. Empathic doctor

>>1982839
Because art requires you to be creative and outward thinking. Things that exist outside the box or outside the norm are typically things that the left talks about. The right is very nostalgic and centered around conservatism rather than change in a culture. Hence why they tend to like more tacky tastes in art and also why they generally are less creative and care even less for art. Naturally, most artists would be on the left then.

The pursuit of garbage pop culture and music propagates this effeminate, pacified culture which is necessary for various globalist group's plans, it is an ancient system really just like (ironically) forced resettlement of populations to curb nationalism.

Right-wing artists exist but they are suppressed by the majority of that niche. To make a product, you must first be given the consent by your colleagues in most media. Now the right-wing person is statistically most always going to be shut down by the committee of liberals. This is why right-wing opinions are supressed in Hollywood. Conservatives exist but they're never given a platform to speak on because the majority liberals are always going to shut them down. Especially in these times where social media has made the cultural wars a fact.

Since young people are the most lucrative audience for entertainment, conservative ideals for adults is not the ideal way of business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_5gio3yd3A

thank me later

>>1982890
This is actually quite true my man, good post.

because being creative is very strongly associated with difficulty in thinking in a precise, logical way, and thinking in a precise, logical way allows you to question propaganda and not leap to the easy conclusion that your sense of empathy is leading you towards.

Creative types whose brains work in quite a fuzzy and imprecise way are unable or unwilling to consider all the facts:
-like for example the fact that the vast majority of so-called "refugees" coming to europe are not coming from a country undergoing civil war at all, but are infact economic migrants.
-or that capitalism allows far greater freedoms, higher standard of living and more transparent laws and political system than the glorious "workers paradise"
Instead they just leap to the first conclusion presented that appeals to their sense of empathy.

That's why artistic types continued to believe in communism long after reports of dreadful repression and millions of deaths manufactured by communist regimes started emerging, because the first conclusion presented to them was "feel for these workers who finally get an equal shot in life!"

in the same way artistic types leap to the conclusion that everyone claiming to be a refugee should be allowed access to a western country, because "think of them being sad because they decided to leave their homes and sleep in camps :("

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>>1983277
>because being creative is very strongly associated with difficulty in thinking in a precise, logical way
Get the fuck out of here you retarded pseud.

>>1983250
Most artists I know shit on hollywood and pop culture as corporate garbage and they are definitely not right wing.

>>1983295
They are still establishment voices even if they exist outside the realm of proletarian art.

>>1983302
No I would say they are quite anti establishment. I think you are confusing left vs right with establishment vs anti establishment.

>>1983277
>-like for example the fact that the vast majority of so-called "refugees" coming to europe are not coming from a country undergoing civil war at all, but are infact economic migrants.
untrue, and easily proven so. Look at the statistics from eurostat.

>-or that capitalism allows far greater freedoms, higher standard of living and more transparent laws and political system than the glorious "workers paradise"
The vast majority of leftists are pro-capitalism, but regulated capitalism as opposed to full ancaps. This actually puts them in line with most rightists.

I'm more concerned with how people like you are so misinformed. The mainstream media is more or less incessantly being criticised for misinformation but the truth is "alternative media" is both more effective and more prominent as a tool of misinformation. This is true for both left-wing lies and right-wing lies.

>>1983222
Reality

>>1983219
That's a gross mischaracterisation of both the left and the right.

>>1983197
Modern left has no empathy, certainly not among wealthy millionaire artists living in upper class neighborhoods constantly poking fun at poor "rednecks", "hillbillies" or "white trash".

>>1983277
>because being creative is very strongly associated with difficulty in thinking in a precise, logical way
Source

>thinking in a precise, logical way allows you to question propaganda and not leap to the easy conclusion that your sense of empathy is leading you towards.
Are you trying to deny the existence either of right-wing propaganda or of miltatistic "unempathetic" propaganda? Don't really get what you're trying to say beyond a general "I don't like leftists" sentiment.

>>1983325
You know full well that rich neoliberals are not representative of the left. /pol/ wouldn't want the right to be defined by Israeli brown nosers, so why do you get to characterize the left as such?

>>1983321
your asspulled opinions are far from self-evident. If you don't have a source you're just shitposting.

Because art is dead.

>>1983337
Oh yeah sorry I forgot only your small orthodox Marxist student clique qualifies as left. No true Scotsmanning to the point of absurdity.

>>1983315
No, I know exactly the kind of bourgeoisie, ineffective "subversive" art you are talking.

>>1983320
This. As bad as mainstream media is, it's not as deeply biased and manipulated as RT, Alternet, Al Jazeera, Breitbart, Zero Hedge etc.

>>1983325
Blairite neoliberals are hardly your archetypal leftist. They are a part of the left and it does no good for leftists to disown them, they are a problem that the left needs to sort out, but they are an aesthetically leftist product reagan/thatcher at the end of the day. They were good at drawing votes from centrists but remain very unpopular among the leftist base.

>>1983349
I think you know about stereotypes from online outrage-aggregators.

>>1983377
I think you are full of assumptions here, I am myself an artist.

>>1983345
Not him but neoliberalism is so similar to neoconservatism they have more in common with each other than with an actual left. Hillary Clinton is about as Republican as they come and I definitely would not place neoliberals like her and Obama with the left. They are center-right if anything.

>>1983320
>untrue,
No, it is true
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240010/Number-refugees-arriving-Europe-soars-85-year-just-one-five-war-torn-Syria.html
>The EU logged 213,000 arrivals in April, May and June but only 44,000 of them were fleeing the Syrian civil war.


>The vast majority of leftists are pro-capitalism,
They are now, I was obviously talking about the 50s, 60s and 70s as denoted by when I wrote
"artistic types continued to believe in communism long after reports of dreadful repression and[...]" So talking about the present tense is quite irrelevant and shows that you have trouble thinking precisely when trying to read and understand what someone has written.


Sounds like you're someone who has difficulty thinking precisely.
probably like >>1983289

>>1983395
>I don't like them, so they aren't lefties like me
United States is left-wing by standard, anyway.

>>1983395
Look at what this thread is about and then post again. Do you think Radiohead, Green Day and other shitty cuckbands are not neoliberals?

>>1983331
artistic people are typically not strong at mathematics or science. If you are not willing to accept this as reasonable based on your awareness of the world around you then I can't help you .

>Are you trying to deny the existence either of right-wing propaganda or of miltatistic "unempathetic" propaganda?
no. this is not implied by what I wrote.

The question asks why most artists since 1968 are left wing and I answered that it is because artistic types more commonly have difficulty thinking precisely which makes them vulnerable to any propaganda that appeals to their sense of empathy without considering carefully whether the propaganda is valid or not.


You can tell me that you don't get what my post is saying but unless you tell me which particular part you don't understand I don't know how why you would expect me to paraphrase and regurgitate my entire post again.

Post 1968 leftists are literally all spoiled middle class urbanite slackers who cosplay as the proletariat. Meanwhile the actual proletariat votes right wing, go figure.

>>1983431
Instead of posting an article from a tabloid of all places, why not post the actual statistics.

here are the stats from eurostat for the past year. The vast majority are from countries undergoing active conflict. Over half come from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq alone, all of which are facing large scale civil war. Your original comment was wrong.

>They are now, I was obviously talking about the 50s, 60s and 70s as denoted by when I wrote
yes, that was obvious, however that is not the part I responded to. I even quoted it to make that clear, and the section I quoted was written in the present tense and was clearly in reference to leftism in general and not a specific group of leftists, which you only brought up afterwards.

>Sounds like you're someone who has difficulty thinking precisely.
I think you should reread your posts when you make such accusations, to save yourself from embarrassment.

>>1982839
>Why the majority of artists post-1968 are left wing?
because most young people tend to be left.
fans and audience is young. they buy your shit.

besides, inspired by refugee crisis?

NOT THE BEEEEEEEEES NOT THE BEEEEEEEEEEEEES

just because it's fire, doesn't mean it isn't nicolas cage.

>>1983460
>artistic people are typically not strong at mathematics or science. If you are not willing to accept this as reasonable based on your awareness of the world around you then I can't help you .
Any evidence I've seen suggests that a high IQ increases proficiency both in sciences and the arts. Some people are just generally smarter than others. My anecdotal experience reflects this also.

>artistic types more commonly have difficulty thinking precisely
Do you have a source for this claim?

>which makes them vulnerable to any propaganda that appeals to their sense of empathy
Again this doesn't demonstrate any link between empathy and an inability to think critically. If you're attempting to use the effectiveness of sympathetic propaganda as evidence of such a correlation, that evidence would be easily refuted given the existence of unsympathetic propaganda which, using the same logic proves the exact opposite. Which is why I brought up unsympathetic propaganda.

>>1983467
Well that depends, most of the poor in urban cities vote left as do most poor minorities.

t.city dweller

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>>1983496
forgot my picture, here's the stats.

Blame Adorno

>>1982839
It is hard to have a conservative/right mindset to make good art since the best always challenge, shake up or offer new presceptions

It's a strange phenomenon... I find that when I am writing a song it turns out left-leaning but I am right-leaning. Maybe subconsciously I am left-leaning or maybe the structure of song caters to a leftist attitude more somehow. I suspect this is not the case, though. Maybe the fact that I know most songs have a left-lean makes me create songs that are similar to those left-leaning songs. Also when I am creating music I am in the same state as when I am listening to music. Could it be that my musical-state is left leaning because it has been taught to be? It's a mystery.

>>1983549
Go with what speaks to your soul. Ignore left or right, just embrace the spirit anon.

>>1983549
What do you mean by left leaning? Economically left?

>>1983320
In both of your oppinions you are wrong.

>>1983277
>The opinion of someone who has never studied actually studied music and art.

I don't consider pop culture and the industry behind it art. There is also nothing creative behind that mass shit they do.

Young people tend to be left leaning but grow most often out of it. For example Ghoethe was pretty lefty in his youth and turned very conservative with the age like most writers of his time.

>>1983601
Faust 2 was very left leaning, at least in the ending

>>1983570
The songs turn out to be socially left. I don't write about economics in my music. I am economically right, though. Socially I am moderate; I am okay with gay marriage but I don't like the complete acceptance of gay culture. In my music I embody a person who'd be fine with the latter- i think.

>>1983565
True, I do.
Cheers

>>1983619
I'm gay myself and I'm borderline fascist/reactionary. The notion that gay acceptance is something exclusive to leftists is bullshit.

>>1983627
>The notion that gay acceptance is something exclusive to leftists is bullshit.
Looks like someone has never been on /pol/

>>1983644
Yeah and it looks like that someone is you. There's shitloads of gay /pol/acks.

>>1983614
For me it's hard to categorize a fictional work as left or right leaning.

I more refered to his political views. Lots of it is documented in his letters to Schiller.

>>1983655
/lgbt/ lapers at best. muh degeneracy is the norm in there.

>>1983682
Look at some of the most prominent Alt Right figures

Richard Spencer - okay with gays
Jared Taylor - okay with gays
Greg Johnson - gay himself
James O'Meara - gay himself
Jack Donovan - utter faggot

Obviously you don't really know much about right wing.

>>1983680
He didn't seemed to denounce any left or right attitudes, only their methods

>>1983690
>alt-right
Call me when they are a proper movement with card carrying members. Hell /pol/ is 'alt-right' and it is fickle minded whether Milo is one of them

>>1983725
Milo isn't alt right and almost everyone agrees on that including Milo himself, except for the liberal media that constantly try hamfisting him into the movement.

>>1983690
>the alt right thinks whites are cucks for supporting islam
I can't make this shit up

>>1983739
>except for the liberal media
And all those threads on /pol/ saying "ONE OF US! ONE OF US!"

No coherent identity or manifesto. Maybe repackage alt-right as Goldwater Republicans and I will concede the point

>>1983759
>Milo: I'm not alt right
>Alt right: Milo isn't alt right
>Media: MILO IS ALT RIGHT KKK NAZI BREITBART CONSPIRACY CONFIRMED!

>>1983431
What I was saying is that precisely the ability to think analytically is required to create great art, see: Goethe, Schiller, Hölderlin, Mozart, pretty much every composer before Beethoven and a few after etc. etc.

However, opposing rationalism, capitalism and so on are not necessarily left wing traits either.

>>1983764
>Alt right: Milo isn't alt right
>Revising /pol/ history this much

>>1983780
>/pol/ = the alt right

Fuck off lol

>>1983725
>Call me when they are a proper movement with card carrying members
We just had a large conference in DC, check it out.

>>1983345
Keep on assuming, faggot. When you try to force you jackboots on us, there will be a response. I fucking guarantee it.

>>1983797
Yea i too wish the alt-right can fuck off from /pol/

>>1982839
Based Rush never sucking the leftist dick until the 90s

>>1982839
>post-1968

Why the arbitrary date?

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>>1982839
Being good at art requires at least a modicum of open-mindedness.

>>1982839

From a marketing perspective it widens your target audience, which equals more money.

>>1983197
Why didn't they feel empathy for the kulaks?

>>1983545
>Conservatism means never changing

When will this meme die? The very concept of "change" was introduced in history by conservative intellectuals.

Revolutionaries of old believed human society could be treated like physical sciences, and there was a static, perfect model for everything, including art.

It's just virtue signaling. Did Thom Yorke actually open his house for Afghan refugees? I doubt so.

I think the real reason is these days conservatism is more prevalent in older people, younger people are more liberal. Most of the most popular artists are young, and therefore more likely to be liberal.
Those that are not liberal, are savy enough about public perception to know that being vocal about their politics will most likely do more harm than good for them, so they keep their mouths shut. I mean, being liberal as a public figure is just good marketing. After all, being conservative about literally anything will invariably alienate some section of your audience, and if even a tiny microscopic sliver of your audience gets sufficiently pissed about something, it can literally be the end of your career.

For every leftist middlebrow pseudo-intellectual, there is an equivalent rightist low-brow anti-intellectual.

>>1982890
Complete bullshit. The greatest art pursues beauty for beauty's sake. I bet you read books for plot and messages instead of style.

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There was a deliberate effort by communists to take over all the levels of the cultural apparatus in the West. That effort was extremely successful.

Nowadays the only right-wing cultural industry in the world is Japanese anime industry.

>>1984408
there's nothing right wing about anime, what the fuck are you talking about

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>>1984419

>>1984419
Not him but there is a lot of right wing anime. Angel Cop is 100% /pol/ tier, with THE JEWS taking over sections of Tokyo and spreading chaos, but that's an egregious example. Also shitloads of nationalism-wank.

>>1984426
>implying america fuck yeah movies dont exist
i dont even

The main audience for popular art is young people, young people are more likely to be left-leaning therefore artists that cater to that are more successful.

The concept of art has changed somewhat, with a greater focus on novelty, controversy and disestablishmentarianism, values which are associated with modern leftism.

>>1984440
No *I* don't even, because I didn't even remotely imply that.

>>1984408
>Nowadays the only right-wing cultural industry in the world is Japanese anime industry.
"right wing anime" is a minority, lol.

Most Anime is based on muh pacifism/dont want no trouble, muh friendship, and shit like that.

Besides applying left an right politics outside the West tends to be fucking lacking in describing the situations there, especially in East Asia. Japs can be fully liberal without going SJW. China is supposedly left but has a lot of nationalist elements nowadays following the failure of Mao. And so on.

>>1984449
>Also shitloads of nationalism-wank.

>>1984450
Don't forget shitting dicknipples anime.

>>1984450
>Most Anime is based on muh pacifism/dont want no trouble, muh friendship, and shit like that.
Most anime made by old people is that way. Young people are much more enthusiastic about militaristic dick swinging.

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>>1982839
Fucktons of factor probably
>Media are on the average left-wing ( On the social aspect )
>Most of our pop culture comes from leftist counter-culture of the 20st centuries
>They are probably less affected by problems that push people to be conservative
>Leftist are less pragmatic it makes them probably more likely to study art or things like that
>New media gave them a voice and allowed them to express their opinions, they are not intellectuals, they rely on empathy and not critical thinking

That's what i can think of

>>1982839
One thing I've observed is that right wingers seem to like predictable results based on static foundation elements. Art is extremely fluid and doesn't really have any "rules" so to speak, there are foundation elements to it but they don't form the solid structure all the way up like math, science, etc found in the STEM fields do.
Feel free to add your own observations because this topic greatly interests me,

the most talented artists are too intelligent to be distracted by make-believe bipartisan identity politics.

>>1984469
>Young people are much more enthusiastic about militaristic dick swinging.
What like GATE? Pfft. Yet again a minority.

Most youngtards do nowadays is make pedophile shit with cute girls or what not. Which is why Anime fucking sucks nowadays.

>>1984408
> Hear about /pol/
> " oh boy, a board full of right wingers! Surely they must hate communism and have deep discussions retardando the Frankfurt school
> NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER
> its da joos!

Such a letdown

>>1982927
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuug, this.

>>1982839
Art and artists can be right or left or whatever. It's not that artists post 1968 are left wing, but that the rich who promote what becomes seen as high art appreciate daring fashion over conformity in this day and age, which translates to favoring artists who are anti-establishment in some fashion, which means many are left leaning. By comparison, right wing artists tend to be favored by authoritarian governments and a true closed-door aristocracy.

>>1982839
Because right wingers are usually the ones who censor art, except for Stalinist

>>1982839
How is this history or humanities.

>>1982927
This. The reason politics is shitshow now and there's mass immigration and a threat of religious war in the EU is because that hippy generation grew up and became leaders, journalists and politicians but never outgrew that "wooo free love man, there's no such thing as race" bs.

To be fair, I can't wait for when /pol/tards are our leaders and politicians in like 50 years.

The right-wing don't take pride in being poor.

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>>1984479
>One thing I've observed is that right wingers seem to like predictable results based on static foundation elements. Art is extremely fluid and doesn't really have any "rules" so to speak, there are foundation elements to it but they don't form the solid structure all the way up like math, science, etc found in the STEM fields do.
Pure fucking ideology

Brainwashed by bourgeoisie modernist nonsense

I'm actually a little mad

>>1984595
How is this not humanities? Are you retarded?
>>1984593
You are a fucking moron.

>>1983139
That's a good one

>>1983915
>internet tough guy to the rescue

>>1984838
Well, that 'there is no such thing as race' is a fact.

>>1983369

It's honestly scariest watching intellectuals regress into bubbles spewing propaganda out at anyone not currently indoctrinated by one worldview. I used to think radical left-wingers and casuals were the ones staying in echo chambers, but the hypocrisy of some of the right now who cry about the shit said at Hamilton and talk about how tough they are is a bit surreal. Intellectual dishonesty has gotten to the point where people actually believe the lies they sell themselves, to an alarming degree.

>>1982839
Western art post 1968 (and even before that) was made under the rising tide of anti modernism (not quite postmodern yet) which incorporated a lot of leftist ideals. It was the beginning of rejection of progressive western modernity and liberalism (not the definition /pol/ uses). In this kind of environment only leftist leaning artists and their thoughts are appreciated and glorified. Traditional art, and even the newer modern art such as abstract expressionism were seen as simply outdated not longer critical and edgy enough. More conservatively minded works like good old naturalist oil painting and sculpture was simply derided as kitsch devoid of political meaning. Art for art's sake then was no longer celebrated.

>>1982839
Artists have been largely left wing for as long as the left-right paradigm has existed

Wagner, Schoenberg, and Ezra Pound are the exception rather than the rule.

>>1984408
Is fucking children a conservative/right wing stance?

>>1982839
Because the arts have always been a primarily leftist pursuit whilst the right tends to value utility more than abstract creativity.
Neither are completely right

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>>1982890
This is the truth and I admit this as someone that is right-wing.

Left-wing ideology is utopian in its pursuit but impractical in its constructive application. They are great dreamers but the lack of realism in their approach makes them poor critical thinkers.

For example, the refugee crisis should be able to be handled by offering them safe harbor and amnesty in our more advanced countries, by their adapting to our way of life or even seamlessly integrating their own without conflict.. But Islam will not allow it. These people, culturally, are incompatible with us but that doesn't mean that the idea of integrating them, of bringing them over to a better life isn't a good one in theory.

It's just that it is a flawed theory, one that cannot function in the harsh realities of our world. Like Communism.

>>1985895
As an addendum, I'm not saying that liberals are superfluous.

We need them. Their ideas are noble and inspire more constructive thinkers to find more reasonable compromises and applications. They simply cannot govern well.

It's really why I weary of the constant right vs. left shitposting on this site. It has never been an 'us against them' issue. That's only a philosophy for the new, younger, playstation vs. xbox generation of mouth-breathers. I understand the use of people that think differently than myself.

>>1983170
Liberalism in the modern sense is literally all about empathy above all else

>>1985875
Absolutely

>>1985895

The creation of wide-appealing art in the written, verbal, or visual form requires various forms of critical thinking and intellect.

Liberalism in its classical definition was the cornerstone of critical thought. What in the fuck are you on about in painting an entire political spectrum as poor critical thinkers?

t. Conservative

The basic ideology of the right is killing anyone not like you, and weaker than you, and taking their stuff. Not a criticism, all successful civilizations are based on this concept.

Artists throughout history have generally not been interested in conquest, killing and destruction. Lovers, not fighters. If you can't figure out why, well, don't know what to tell you. Sure there have been some warrior artists in history but their art usually sucked. Just look at Nazi art. Boring. It's all bow down before the greatness that is us type of shit.

That you look at left leaning art and have a negative reaction, or any reaction at all, proves that it's on to something.

There's a reason that authoritarians and artists have always butted heads. Authoritarians want art that is boring, communicates nothing, is decorative at the most. Artists want to elicit the strongest emotional reactions possible. There's an obvious conflict there.

Artists like emotionally intense chaos and authoritarians want predictable uniformity. Artists want to feel strong emotions, and give others those strong emotions. Authoritarians want... I actually haven't figured that out. I think authoritarians like torture because it's the way they conjure and play with strong emotions. So there you go. There is a such thing as right leaning art and it's very common. It's torture. Perhaps authoritarians aren't sophisticated and sensitive enough to enjoy art and need something a little more real. That would explain a lot.

>>1985945
Critical thought, maybe, but probably not constructive thought in terms of practical application in government.

Anyway, whatever laurels you'd like to place upon liberal critical thinkers of the past are fine. Times have changed, though.

>>1985958
I'm personally not well-versed in the arts enough to make claims, but isn't much of we might call 'reactionary' art ultrasimplistic in nature?

I mean, the avant-garde of the 20th century consisted of art that was meant to trouble, confound, elicit reaction out of the observer etc.

Classical artistry, or what could be called 'conservative' artistry, is based in conformational hierarchies of skill.

An artist who works in stone trains for decades to produce one or two works of substantial beauty and agreeable aesthetic value.

I don't mean to call 'left' art simple, but it seems like it avoids the triumph of struggle that comes with artistry training.

I know this post makes a lot of jumps and is generally opinion based, but I hope it makes some sense

>>1985982
>I don't mean to call 'left' art simple, but it seems like it avoids the triumph of struggle that comes with artistry training.

I read some article about how American universities simply no longer can even teach classical drawing because students don't want to learn it. Thus all their faculty lack such training themselves and even if they wanted to start providing such education again there wouldn't be enough people to do so. Modern students would much rather learn to do some freaking scribbles that can be bullshitted to be anything they want.

>>1985982

I think your perception of ancient art lacking confrontation with the audience is understandable, since it always appears that old art is boring and safe, but this isn't true. One reason for this is probably because when the establishment shows you "classic" art, it's always the boring stuff they approve of.

When you study the history of art you see that artists have always pushed the envelope and authorities have always pushed back.

Perhaps he wasn't an artist, but they executed Socrates for mere ideas. More to it, but that's the jist.

Plato thought music was so threatening to the state that in a perfect civilization, one free of chaos and conflict, it would have to be banned. I'm not even sure he was talking about lyrics. Just the notes. He thought music got young people so revved up that it was dangerous to the state. Sound familiar? That was thousands of years ago. My whole life people have been saying that about whatever new music becomes popular. I doubt these people have read Plato's Republic yet there he is saying it a couple thousand years ago.

Michelangelo may have painted the Sistine Chapel, but he had to jump through a lot of hoops to make images so audacious. He had to keep the church authorities out of the process so he could have some freedom. We look at it today like a masterpiece, but it's essentially gay porno made by a guy who was probably really fucking gay. Have you seen his David? Why it's so accepted I really don't know. Time has a way of making art that was once a threat to the state a treasure of the state. How or why this happens, I really don't understand. Not all art undergoes this metamorphosis, usually just the good stuff. Maybe once the initial shock wears off, it becomes a little boring and the authoritarians can accept it and maybe even love it. This is one reason artists seek novelty because novelty by itself is emotionally powerful.

>>1983241
holy shit you're edgy

>>1982839
It's a class that doesn't pay tax and is supported by society.

>>1983924
>I want my SJW safe space REEE

>>1982839
Nepotism and access to wealth and education.

>>1983219

>pseudo intellectual armchair poster, the post

>>1983345

Yes because generalising people based on their ideas has worked out so well nowadays.

Just like how SJWs think that all right wingers are racists or that how people like you think all left wingers are SJWs.

Kindly off yourself you pseudo-int

>>1984361

This.

>>1984423

>unironically posting a /pol/ infograph

Jesus christ

>>1982839
at first it was "avant-garde" and "edgy"
then they all became soulless corporate whores and stayed left-wing

>>1983337
>>1983371
>rich neoliberals aren't real liberals
>in a thread about rich liberal artists

Truly doublethink.

>>1985466
>there's no such thing as a race therefore every human from every corner of the earth looks the same and has the same IQ

Oh, and why when a "white" person and a "black" person mate the baby is totally race neutral.

>>1982890
I'm a nurse, I'm empathic and most of my political opinion corresponds right wing instances.
Where is your god now?

>>1983197
Lies, both have empathy only when considering their favoured groups.

>>1982890
>artists
>empathy
Lots of great artists strike me as at least a bit selfish if not even sociopathic.

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>>1985958
>Artists throughout history have generally not been interested in conquest, killing and destruction.
What the fuck are you talking about, there were many artists in history who glorified battles, kingdoms and soldiers. Pic very fucking related.

Delete this fucking shitshow of a thread, reading this is genuinely embarrassing.

>>1986410
>there were many artists in history who glorified battles, kingdoms and soldiers

There's a difference between fantasies and actually killing people. A warrior artist would be killing people by day and writing love songs at night.

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>>1986681
>implying that isn't a common model
you rang

Right wingers are more realistic in their artistic expressions

>>1984838
Yes, that´s why those people from the hippie generations generally favour the right and not the left. People that were young during the 60´s are senior citizens now and seniors vote a lot more for right wing and conservatives canditdates then the youth.

>>1986681
Caravaggio was among the greatest Baroque artists and greatest Western artist ever and he killed a guy over a slut he liked.

>>1986367
But what defines race? It seems way too loose and relative. Which leads me to believe it doesn't really matter except maybe in studying disease prevention and human migration movements throughout history.

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>>1986681
Artists fantasizing about people killing people still shows that they have interest in this topic. It's been going on since ancient times.

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>>1982890

>>1982890
>pseudo intellectual armchair poster, the post

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>>1982902

>>1986956
>But what defines race?

The same thing as for every animals: sub-divisions within a specie that vary physically and physiologically
Believing that humans are a special snowflake specie deprived of races when every other animal specie has them is creationist tier

>>1982890
jesus christ man

Was Jan Van Eyck a liberal?

>>1983533
Could we have a source?

>>1986377
Most nurses supported the leftist Bernie Panders. You're just a black sheep.

>art = creativity
>creativity = intelligence
>intelligence = left-wing politics

It's pretty simple.

>>1987199
Great post. As an artist, I agree.

>>1987199
>intelligence = left-wing politics

Not in the 21st century

>>1985938
empathy towards everyone except whites, children and men

>>1982839

because the more famous you get the more insulated from reality you become, and the more highly you think of yourself

>"I'm getting lauded for this one thing I do, this means EVERYTHING I think and do is good and important!"

hence why you get fucking movie stars smugly babbling about politics or the environment as if their opinions mattered more than the man on the street.

Then you have "the arts" which by and large is inhabited by idiots who buy into soft headed bullshit because it's trendy and because like, social justice man! we're like oppressed by capitalism!

>>1987273
Too bad we aren't discussing 21st century politics.

>>1982890
Unironically this. That's also the reason 4chan is so right wing. 4chan culture, at least the part that grew out of /b/, is generally against empathy.

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>>1982839
This isn't even close to true. Most artists across history were "leftists".

Take Woody Guthrie - leftist writing songs against Fascism in the early 20th century. Lead Belly- before Guthrie- singing about racism and prison. Even classical composers like Beethoven were used to promote anti-war sentiments.

The common thread in music and art is anti-establishment and anti-war sentiments. Who would write about these things other than the disenfranchised and powerless- usually the left, the poor, the marginalized.

So why is anti-establishment music so prevalent? Many empires feared art and music as creators of dissidents, disobedience, and rebellion - and so quashed it. Thus for long periods of time you get state endorsed religious hymns and national anthems as the only acceptable music- all creativity was deemed an enemy of the state. except the creativity that was used to design grand state architecture and war machines.

There's no particular biological or psychological justification that shows lefties are more creative than righties. It's just that traditionally "right" art was used in a different sphere of influence- namely architecture, flattering paintings of leaders, heroic depictions of battles, and art, music, and plays glorifying war and one's own cultural greatness.

if you think about it, we still get right art flowing freely out of hollywood, comic books, and music. Most American war movies glorify the use of violence- and are allegories to the U.S. showing up at the end of WW2 to save the day. Most action movies glorify the use of violence with the same WW2 allegory (america shows up to win it). Most superheroes glorify violence- and always use their super powers to inflict violence on others while maintaining the status quo (you don't see systematic overthrowal of unjust economic systems like capitalism- because this art serves the state). To reiterate, there's plenty of 'right art" you just don't realize it and that's by design.

>>1982839

person who worked on a 2 major record labels as a social media manger and coordinator I can tell you that most of its bs. They re left but they really couldin't give 2 shits.

Its gets you noticed and makes you look 'good' hip and informed!

>>1987273
Then explain why the vast majority of education persons vote liberal

>inb4 muh indoctrination

>>1987290
Conservatives are the ones defunding schools and cutting services that many whites and men depend on greatly

>>1987195
Eurostat, I said in the previous post

>>1987171
>Implying the genetic differences between human races are even close to what they are between other natural sub-species.
>Ignoring the fact that all human populations outside the sentinel islanders aren't constantly interbreeding with each other
>Ignoring the fact that we lump everyone from Africa together in one race despite the fact they are genetically less related to each other than they are to "Whites"
>Ignoring the fact that who was counted as "White" has changed constantly. Irish weren't white originally, neither were Greeks. Yet now they are because of societal norms. So much for a scientific basis.

>>1982839

Arts and culture mostly survives in the modern day through government subsidy. Otherwise they would only be able to sell to rich cucks as with the medicis.

>>1987290
>let's destroy access to healthcare
>that'll help whites

>>1982890
picture of dead syrian kid
>down with europe
Picture of aborted fetus
>"how horrifying" then proceeds to lobby for free abortion

I just believe its a huge brainwash, all band go with this for the money, just like politicians.

Any university, all females look and think carboncopy of eachothers, males dress almost the same and those who dont its because they cant afford it.
They will totally support left thinking for pussy.


Its a trend, being Liberal is being left now so its a big opportunity for money

>>1982839
Because in general artists (meaning musicians, actors, painters, etc.) are fucking retarded and have no idea how governments, economies, cultures, history, and wars work. This is not just post 1968, but applies backwards to any "artist" that basically typifies the modern SJW. You can spot them throughout history. It's only in the 20th-21st centuries that they weren't executed for being cultural traitors.

>>1987547
Cultural Marxism, soviets infiltrated acedemia in the west. So yes, you were indoctrianated. Putin is trying to rebrand communism, into a more western-friendly variety. Which is why he has managed to cozy up to Trump. But Trump is smarter than that and watch, he will be the one pulling the strings.

>>1988826
This. People not working professional within a field tend to have no fucking idea what they're talking about. And it's not merely in academics or politics, you just have to ask a random civil servant, a mail-man or someone working with cars how retarded people can be and they'll all have horror stories.

There are actual people in this thread that are saying both

>left wing is not the empathetic wing
>good art does not require empathy

The first one is arguable. The second one is perhaps the the single most retarded thing you could possibly think. Just be honest and admit you don't really care about "art" on any interesting level. Fucking reeeee. Go to your containment boards.

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>>1987199
If they're so smart, why do their countries [COLAPSE] all the time?

>>1988864
In what way does good art require empathy you pleb?

>>1988888
Name a single good piece of art.

All on you, whatever you think is a good piece of art: music, lit, film, whatever. Go ahead.

>>1987547
>educated = intelligent
Yikes

>>1988892
Soundtracks for the blind.

>>1988885
Basing your economy solely on oil exports is a horrible idea

>>1988902
lol

>>1988902
I wrote a long response but I deleted it all because this is a funny enough response that I did not expect, lol

>>1982839
anything which isn't blatant decadent leftist when it comes to anything public is blockaded by the state, media, education centers aka state, art like everything else has been rebuilt and redefinitioned into something else, art is no longer art, while shitting on the street or dropping a paper on the ground is art

>>1982839
Most artists are spoiled big city kids that don't know the value of a dollar or work.
Most leftists are spoiled big city kids that don't know the value of a dollar or work.

>>1982839
Conservatives with money tend to buy antique art instead of commissioning new works in classical styles.

Liberals with money buy newly made shitty modern art.

>>1982859
Accurate, because Impressionism is what killed art

Art emphasizes self-expression and a sort of wishful thinking. Sensitive people who to express their feelings and thoughts through an aesthetics are probably more likely to be liberal because I do not think an average conservative will give a rats ass about that kind of expression. Most of them will probably see them as either meaningless or a sign of weakness in spirit. I believe right-minded people are more likely to produce art as a product or a thesis in comparison.

>>1983277
Cringe

>>1982899
Art in its basics is an expression of emotion.

If you lack empathy then its likely you won't produce good art.

because conservatives favor safety and stability and an artist's lifestyle can't guarantee it

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>>1983432
>United States is left-wing by standard
>Americans actually believe that

>>1982839
Jewish influence on the entertainment industry.

>>1982839
Right-wing politics value financial practicality, becoming an artist has never been a financially practical pursuit. The million dollar superstars are the vast minority. Even with hard work they will, on average, fail more than they succeed and they will fail for years before they reach any consistent success. For your average joe in this profession, living off your work is a huge accomplishment. Art is a career for people that enjoy the processes more than the results. It's a field that is, on the level of the worker, far too inconsistent to mix with a right-wing philosophy.
This is probably the biggest factor.


As far as the twentieth century goes: the right has emphasised it's focus on 'traditional values' and cultural conservatism more than it has before. Art in the modern world is a business of novelty, even if only superficially. Artists need to stand out to sell, they live off new ideas, cultural trends and mediums. They don't like anything that would restrict what they can use or what the audience will receive because it means they all hae to fight over fewer niches.
If there is anything about the left that is met with resistance in the artistic community it is political correctness. Other than that, having access to alternative sexuality and cultures just gives more to mine for inspiration.
The western Right's projected image of the good-ole boy just isn't very attractive to people who want to make new shit.


I don't think art itself is politically polarised but the way our political paradigm has turned out has put the left into the position of being able to advertise "progress" and "open-mindedness".
In my opinion the entire left-right thing gets more and more fucked with each passing year. Neither side has much to offer the artist at this point.

>>1983250
>art by committee
garbage in the first place

>>1988843
lol

>>1988898
>learning things makes you dumb!

>>1989062
>the value of a dollar
>work
wagecuck spotted

>>1989085
>waahhh i dont get it !! it must suck !!

>>1990702
yes

>>1982839
>>1982890
It has nothing to do with empathy. All the late-night "comedians", pop musicians, bands, artists, and celebrities are leftists. This is because leftism is "cool" and "trendy" and leftism is the only ideology that is compatible with the degenerate lives that their success allows.

>>1989663
She's such a qt. I hope we see more of her naked, in the series. No cgi nudes, real ones like she used to do.

>>1991687
This is the /pol/ equivalent to saying the reason more women aren't winning international math competitions or becoming mechanical engineers is because of being constantly micro-aggressioned.

Visual Art/Comp Sci double major here.

Bourgeois academia (overwhelmingly leftist) has killed real art, and most galleries are now money laundering schemes.

It's hard do make art in support of ideologies that make a point of mentioning how they don't value you. In 2008 when Stephen Harper was asked about arts funding he said "ordinary Canadians dont care about the arts". Why would you expect anyone to work against their own interests that strongly by making art in service to that kind of viewpoint?

It only leaves room for commercial art and nothing else.

i mean this with all honesty:
jews

>>1984895
>that absolutely disgusting, gay reddit shit
that was fucking cringe worthy fedora faggotry of the highest tier

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>>1988892
KV. 453.

All the greatest artists were analytic thinkers with restrained and carefully controlled emotion in their work, this is what one calls "taste". Another good example of this is Goethe.

>>1982839

I don't think it's as bad as we believe. Those who are outspoken on political matters are certainly left-wing, but when you have groups like Lynyrd Skynyrd who come out in support of righties they're immediately shot down by their peers.

>>1988510
You're assuming that throwing money at people actually helps them elevate their situation

>>1982890
>left wing
>empathy
what timeline are you on, senpai?

>>1987383
good post

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>>1988694
>>Implying the genetic differences between human races are even close to what they are between other natural sub-species.
Airy nonsense. Dispute the distinctions presented don't strawman the position into being a claim that different ethnic groups are as distinct as the most distinctive subspecies.
>>Ignoring the fact that all human populations outside the sentinel islanders aren't constantly interbreeding with each other
Sophistry. You're bringing this up without making a claim, but what you're implying is that there is little genetic variation as a consequence of interbreeding. Interesting theory, doesn't change the empirical data about educational and economic divisions in performance between different ethnic groups even controlling for income.
>>Ignoring the fact that we lump everyone from Africa together in one race despite the fact they are genetically less related to each other than they are to "Whites"
This means nothing. it might be that there are different ethnic groups within Africa that have substantial variation in phenotype but that doesn't change the trend. But, calling a one-off study that uses one of many methods for determining genetic distance and genetic clusters definitive evidence that some African groups are more varied from each other is actually silly and the researcher did not intend the work they did to produce important information about genetic distance between all kinds of genetic clusters. The reality is that in a double blind study where participants identified the race that they identify as, and researchers, without making any judgements about important markers, blindly put genetic information into a computer which then, without any prior knowledge of markers that belonged to groups, placed the samples into groups. Of 3,636 participants 5 identified as something different from others in the genetic group they were placed in.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196372/

>>1987316
And yet it produces a fair share of it's own creative content.

but yeah
this was no ((coencidence)))
it was the jews; indeed