Why are the chinese so shit a war?

>>1972670
>>1972694
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_people

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They never had to learn how to fight, just throw endless amounts of people at the enemy until it was overwhelmed

>>1972724
Chinese people love that nomad DICK
>Get half conquered by jurchens
>Get conquered by Mongol for 200 years
>Get conquered by Manchu for 300 years

>>1972724
Wait. So by this logic then the Manchus weren't an outside force?

>>1972731
And that's why they control far more land today than they did in 2000 BC.

>>1972737
And vice-versa. Manchus don't exist anymore, half of Mongolia is Chinese, and the Uyghurs are being systematically exterminated.

>>1972724
So the post-Yuan Han-Manchu wars were civil wars?

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>>1972754
>implying chinks are just slave subhumans to serve the altaic masterrace.

>>1972763
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3330368/Chinese-police-use-FLAMETHROWER-terror-suspects-grenades-tear-gas-fail.html

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>>1972773
Chinks must be exterminated for lebenraum for the glorious Altaic Reich.

>why are the Chinese so shit at fighting the Chinese

I dunno.

>>1972670

In a serious answer, I would hazard the following before the thread is completely overrun by /int/ style shitposting:

Pre-industrially, you tended to get an enormous divergence in style of warfare between primarily agricultural societies and primarily pastoral societies. The need to have a huge amount of manpower around harvest-time means that your entire strategic calculus changes, favoring shorter, bloodier, more "intense" wars if you're primarily farming, whereas the herdsmen can afford to take their time and harry the enemy to death in an endless series of raids; their food source requires labor all year round, but rarely more or less labor at a particular point in time.

China has pretty much always been a heavily agricultural society, and the cultivation of rice is why they had such an enormous population. However, they were bordered by, and militarily heavily influenced by steppe nomads to their north, who were pastorals. You can see this in most ancient Chinese military scholarship, stuff like the Art of War definitely espouses a constantly maneuver for advantage and never risk your forces in a decisive battle unless you're 100% sure you're going to win sort of methodology you'd see more in line with a pastoral society. Some of that, is of course that at times you had said steppe nomads rolling in and taking over; often becoming sinified, but keeping their military culture.

The reason China tends to punch below their weight in war is the mismatch between their society and their way of war, at least in the 2 cents of this admitted amateur.

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>>1972785
so why the fuck did u post

>>1972795
By that logic, all the wars of Turkey and the Ottoman Empire consisted of Roman-on-Roman violence, since their ancestors and those of of pretty much everyone they ever fought were once ruled in some part by Romans.

>>1972795
>this retarded """""""logic""""""

Holy fuck why is my filter not working

>>1972670
>Cherrypick battles
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming%E2%80%93Kotte_War
Really makes you think

>>1972737
>Majority of the conquering force was always Han.
Just look at the ethnic composition of the 8 banners and the green standard armies.

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>>1972785

>>1972670
Why is /His/ so shit at Asian history?

You would almost think there a bunch of poltards here who hate asians

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>>1972670
>Be Rome.
>March infantry army vs. Cavalry Armies.
>Get #rekt.

>Be China.
>March infantry army vs. cavalry armies.
>Nomadic cavalries armies.
>In the Steppes.
>Win.
>Win again.
>Win so hard they start migrating westwards in the expense of Indo-Iranians.
Yes OP, they are shit.

>>1972670
because they work like hordes and zergrushing as usually some bad results, specially if the other side as enough ammo and is well defended.
and this is why they keep getting their ass destroyed by a fistful of nips every now and then...

>>1972998

You couldn't be reaching harder. Han only started winning when they started leaning on more cavalry and more innovative commanders, the only infantry army Han used was in a battle where there were no casualties. Besides that, you're trying to sneak in the fact that the Han were commanded brilliantly, pulling some magnificent bastard-level shit rivaling a similar ploy Genghis Khan used to great effect.

>>1972980
>shit at asian history

you mean shit at history in general

>>1972980
t. triggered chink

>>1973024
Imagine being the kind of person who would make this post

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>>1973089
>Han only started winning when they started leaning on more cavalry
The infantry was still the mass of the army that went North and was crucial in holding the ground so that their own cavalry had an area to rest and rearm.

Besides the most well known battle in the Xiongnu War was the battle of Mobei, where an Infantry force of general Wei Qing got caught in the open by Xiongnu cavalry, whereby they wheeled their wagons in the now famous "mobile fort" and plunged crossbow fire in the Nomadic ranks while the miniscule cavalry force the army had ran between wagon fort to wagon fort attacking the nomads.

>>1973128

A miniscule force of 100,00 cavalry, right.

>>1973128

Actually, Han had more cavalry active in that battle than did Xiongnu. The Han infantry outnumbered the entire Xiongnu force even completely discounting the cavalry, so I'm not sure what your point is here. You're talking about a uniquely effective Chinese force beating steppe forces in favorable conditions.

>>1973149
>Wei Qing recognized the odds against him and quickly took defensive countermeasures. He ordered his troops to arrange heavy-armoured chariots (武刚车/武剛車) in a ring formation, creating mobile fortresses that provided archers, crossbowmen and infantry protection from the Xiongnu's powerful cavalry charges, and allowed Han troops to utilize their ranged weapons' advantages of precision. A 5,000-strong force of cavalry was deployed to reinforce the array and eradicate any Xiongnu forces that managed to infiltrate the ringed chariots.
The Battle of Mobei was one whole campaign, negro. Also 200,000 infantry.

>>1973170
Please see >>1973177 thnx.
>Muh outnumbered
Infantry numbers traditionally did not do well in the Steppes now did they.

Can we keep bait threads out of /his/?

>>1972998
The steppe account of history is so weird. The mongols have no records of making steal weapons/Genghis Khan. Just Khans that were great, but none that conquered that far west. They didn't celebrate and acknowledge Genghis Khan until the west reminded them that it was in their history.

>>1973092
You're not wrong

>>1973120
I wonder why there are so many of them on /his/ lately.