Is true altruism possible from a human standpoint?

Of course, I don't mean to dismiss the actions of people (such as Teresa) who help others as self-serving, but doesn't the tenet of "kindness as its own reward" inherently imply that altruistic people do, indeed, gain something from their transactions with others?

>>1966315
Study her and her works closely and you'll see just how self-serving she was. A drunk who shares his last bottle with some other drunk he doesn't even know is more altruistic in that moment than she was in her entire life.

>>1966294
If it feels good to do it, then no

whats true altruism

>>1966526

Exactly. They can help as much as they want but they will get satisfaction out of it because they either feel fulfilled in some way or because of fame/attention that comes with.

>>1966526
The question is is if they are in pursuit of that feeling or not.
Regardless, its optimal if it does feel good.

>>1966294
I don't know how you define "true altruism"

When I worked in a bar I once gave my tips for the day to a charity for literally no reason, they were standing outside a grocery store I went to right after work and I just gave them all my change. I don't really know how to explain it, it didn't even feel good, but I did it anyway. I suppose you could try to reason some "sub-conscious fear of being judged" or something caused me to do it but I really didn't even think twice about it. I think that was the closest I came to "true altruism" if I understand what you're trying to say, in that I received zero benefit from doing it, I didn't even tell anyone about it until right now so I didn't do it to brag either.

>>1966562
Do you have any idea why? That's very interesting.

>>1966294
>true altruism
>"ayoo, gibsmedat free flights and treatment and monies for jebus and I will let people under my care suffer horrible deaths because it is the only thing they deserve"
Didn't know mengele was altruistic.

>>1966510
Being lazy and not wanting to study her life: Are there some keypoints to slam her work you could share?

>>1966940
>>1966852
The only reason I chose a picture of Mother Teresa is because she's a famous "selfless" person
how about voicing an opinion on the subject rather than reacting to the picture

No, you will die for having given away your life and resources.

How can I tell if I'm being selfish or selfless?

>>1967072
If you gain nothing from a transaction then you may be considered "selfless".
Personally, I'm very friendly and accepting and I do things for other people, but I act this way because it is also beneficial to me- usually if you treat people well they'll do the same, and I don't enjoy being an asshole. Additionally, I'm genuinely interested in what people have to say to me about all sorts of things.
I am therefore following a course of action that is ultimately selfish- I act in a certain way because it gets me what I want. I would postulate that most, if not all, people do this just as a consequence of being human and being alive.
Take the example of merging on a busy freeway. There are two full lanes of cars trying to get into one lane. There are, of course, the jagoffs who zoom ahead and cut off three other cars, and there are some people who are real nice and let three cars go ahead of them, but the majority of people will take turns getting in line in an orderly and safe fashion- simply because the option of following customs and rules and perhaps going a little slower is better than the option of burning to death while wedged between your steering wheel and your seat. I believe that this sort of cost-benefit analysis is inherent to human thought processes and, as such, altruism is impossible as a regular practice.

>>1966315
i think altruism is defined as helping others without material reciprocation, i don't think the usage of the concept makes spiritual gain a disqualification

>>1966526
So, what if I die trying to do good, before I can know I accomplished my goal?

If by 'true altruism', you mean empathy while still keeping the often vengeful nature of humanity in the back of your head, then yes, it's very much possible

>>1966923
Not that anon but one thing that I remember is that she received millions of dollars to help people and a lot of that money disappeared (there was one report that claimed that most of the money went to the Vatican and that Mother Teresa was running a big scheme to convert the sick in her care to Catholics).

The reports of the care received by the sick in her facilities could be called disturbing; reports exist that she didn't give out, or at least severely limited the amount of pain relieving medication (at least to non-Catholics, or so the reports claim. Even with Catholics she was still somewhat limiting. However other reports claim the opposite, she gave more pain relieving drugs to non-Catholics in an effort to convert them) because she believed that people should suffer like Jesus did on the cross, the facilities themselves were unhealthy and generally unclean. As said above, she should've been able to afford all these things fairly easily with the money donated to her.

>>1966294
>That bitch

>Altruistic

She was batshit crazy.

how about soldiers jumping on live grenades to save their comrades?

>>1969455
that's very close

>>1966294
well she certainly wasnt altruistic

>>1968829
But the critical question is where did these reports come from, and how reliable are they?

I am an atheist myself but you have to be cirical both ways. Clealy she had a view of suffering which is incomparable with all but a conservative catholic understanding of the state. Certainly not compatible with any secular societies.

But that alone is not an indictment. We also have to keep in mind she was as a Catholic, a minority in India, and some would be hostile to her because of that

>>1969694
You'll never get a response because they don't exist.

Altruism is a bit of a myth.
Helping others is always a bit of a stroking of the ego. That's not a bad thing though, generosity is a virtue and it's only natural to feel good about being a good person.

>>1966526
It doesn't feel good to me but I still do it

>>1969694
Investigative journalist, a lot of them from England actually.

>>1969841
fine but what were their sources? did they have hard data or testimony from locals?

No. Humans are innately animals and acts of altruism that don't benefit the self are unnatural

You should do everything with passion, never out of principle.

People who scorn egoism and praise so-called "selfless acts" are fools. Likewise, people who scorn kindness, patience, noble behavior (which is technically behavior out of a principle, but one that you put forth, not one that you are following), and tenderness towards lower beings, are weak and immature.

>>1969939
The money she received has seemed to disappear. The amount she gave out to humanitarian efforts and the amount she used in the upkeep of her missions indicate that there is (or should be) a significantly large sum of money around out there. Many of the sisters who used to work processing cheques for Mother Teresa claim many millions passed through her organization. Many of the accounts that the money went into haven't been disclosed yet.

The state of her clinics (unhygienic, lack of food, care, and pain relieving medication) were witnessed by the doctors who came to work at the missions and then later confirmed by the journalists.


According to reports and articles, many locals downright hate Mother Teresa.
>inb4 muh gib me dats
>inb4 muh poo in loo

>>1969786
>Helping others is always a bit of a stroking of the ego.
But it isnt really. One can do good for the express purpose of alieving pain, or misery from another for no other reason than because of sympathy, or because one sees that it is within their power to make a change for the better. Stoicism for example would fit this

>...and it's only natural to feel good about being a good person.
Naturally, but one who does altruistic actions for the sake of feeling good about themselves are not themselves altruistic, as the are using whoever they are helping as a means to an end, and not as the ends to a mean.