What was apartheid South Africa actually like? no /pol/ plz

>>1950438
Dr reddit, I'm /pol/.

It was just like America before 1964, except more people were second class citizens. It would have fell A LOT sooner but fear of Soviet/chinese infiltration of the ANC government made the west prop it up past it's expiry date. Standard of living and such was much higher and it was generally a better country if you put aside moral qualms over who had a right to rule, but if you think about it, Khoisans aren't even native to the region so they lose the indigenous argument and they didn't set up any government themselves, so they lose that too.

Basically, it was white AND based.

>>1950438
blacks were economically better off then any country on earth, had the 7th largest economy on earth in the early 70s

now SA is a toilet, 41st GDP. but at least blacks are 'free' to be ruled by other blacks instead of whites.

was really having sex with a black person a crime? is there mixed population?

>>1950456
The ANC actually did quite a good job of not going full Mugabe until recently, with the BBBEE which essentially told qualified professionals to fuck off if they were white.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad-Based_Black_Economic_Empowerment#The_Act

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>>1950474
>is there a mixed population
>in south Africa
wew
It's brazil tier, laddo. They call mixed people "coloureds", they make up about 9% of SA.
Sleeping with other races was illegal under the immorality act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immorality_Act

>want to talk about apartheid South Africa
>on 4chan
>doesn't want /pol/

that's not how it works bub

>>1950562
The alternative is we just lie. The objective facts are South Africa has a higher crime rate, lower employmemt, lower wages, far lower HDI and is no longer a global presence since apartheid ended, you can't deny that no matter how lefty/pol/ you go.

>>1950562
This.

>>1950438

Read up the one of many books on Southern Africa and South Africa itself.

>>1950438
How exactly did apartheid work anyway?

I hear it was supposed to be like two states existing within one but from what I understand for all practical purposes it was essentially total white rule.

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>>1950579
It was always white control, later on they set up Bantustans that were semi-autonomous and run by blacks. "Bantustan" by the way was a made up term, combining "Bantu", the group blacks were from and "stan", from the middle eastern suffix (Khazakstan, Turkmenistan, etcetera), these all failed pretty spectacularly.

>>1950576
Because South Africa still had massive crime back then because all of it takes place in the slums and townships which no one bothered to check.

wages are of course gonna be lower when there's no barrier to preventing people from joining fields or entering them. so the pool of labour is much more massive since there's no racial restrictions. On top of that now the government budget is stretched more thin because now whites aren't the only ones being the focus of the government money but every South African

South Africa was a regional not a global presence.

SA went down in standards because it absorbed an entire underclass of Blacks and Coloureds that is has to care for as equal citizens. Imagine if America was just North East America (the good states in that area) and had to now rule over the rest of the U.S that's around Mississippi at best? You know how much porblems West Germany had integrating East Germany into it? Times that by 10+x, North Korea would be just as awful for south Korea or even worse.

>>1950510
thanks I really didn´t knew
do coloreds and whites get along?

>>1950510
meh, i bet half of those blacks are coloreds too

>>1950611
Not really. Coloreds are pretty unique in their position in South Africa's history.

>>1950637
i said that because a lot of race mixed individuals refer to themselves as black

mb they are more realistic in SA i guess

>>1950598
How the fuck should I know you littl.. Ugh, I mean, yeah, sure, whatever.
I don't actually know much about current relations as I don't come from SA, but I remember hearing something about them identifying more as white than black and feeling superiro for that reason, but the whites there, especially the Boers only identify with their own.

>>1950611
Actually not, it's not like America because the Boers were fiercely independent and didn't interact with the blacks at all, it's quite similar today, Pretoria in particular is still under quasi segregation due to neither community wanting to interact with each other.

>>1950596
Actually crime legitimately has got worse, the "white police only cared about white crime" meme is a complete myth, if anything they were harder on the blacks than the whites.

>wages are of course gonna be lower when there's no barrier to preventing people from joining fields or entering them. so the pool of labour is much more massive since there's no racial restrictions. On top of that now the government budget is stretched more thin because now whites aren't the only ones being the focus of the government money but every South African
The blacks always were involved in the economy of SA, I don't know how you think they functioned with 85% of the populace allegedly ignored. Nothing changed apart from the ineptitude of the government, the ANC couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

>>1950658
>didn't interact with the blacks at all,

They did interact though. A fucking lot of interaction between.

>The blacks always were involved in the economy of SA

As the labour base that worked for pretty much nothing.

> I don't know how you think they functioned with 85% of the populace allegedly ignored.

Pretty easy. The government paid little to support those populations like they did for whites in SA. That is very little tax money was designated for the blacks or Coloureds. It's pretty easy to function with an underclass that you just throw the occasional bones to and use as an incredibly cheap labour.

Of Course crime woudl get worse when the population of SA increased heavily. Not denying it didn't increase but Aparthied SA still had a lot of crime.

seems to me old anc people need to step aside for a new wave of politicians who do not carry past burdens

>>1950438
For white people, it was a first world country. For black people it was a third world country. After Mandela, it became third world for both whites and blacks.

>>1950747
It's 2nd world honestly but for upper class it's lower tier first world.

Is their life expectancy so low because of AIDS?

or other things too

>>1950710
>They did interact though. A fucking lot of interaction between.
Source? From what I've seen it was pretty segregated.

>As the labour base that worked for pretty much nothing.
No worse than the modern US.

>Pretty easy. The government paid little to support those populations like they did for whites in SA. That is very little tax money was designated for the blacks or Coloureds. It's pretty easy to function with an underclass that you just throw the occasional bones to and use as an incredibly cheap labour.
This is just the standard class system in literally every capitalist country. It's far worse than it ever was now with more blacks and whites in poverty.

>Of Course crime woudl get worse when the population of SA increased heavily. Not denying it didn't increase but Aparthied SA still had a lot of crime.
Less than literally every other sub saharan country per capita.

>>1950768
AIDS
murder
poor healthcare
poverty
disease in general

>>1950772
Historically Boers and Blacks did have a lot of interactions.

Also just asking are you using Boer in the all Afrikaans speaking whites or the rural counterparts to the city dwelling folk.

>Less than literally every other sub saharan country per capita.

Because SA has better crime reporting. Also it's like filled with townships and slums since south Africa is much more urbanized. Poor urban dwelling are a hive of crime and poverty. IT's liek how Bolivia has less crime the Brazil

>This is just the standard class system in literally every capitalist country.

Not even close

It's far worse than it ever was now with more blacks and whites in poverty.

There's very few whites in poverty though. Also then number of Coloureds and blacks rising from poverty and engaging in social mobility is higher then ever.

>No worse than the modern US.

Really nigga?

>>1950797
Yeah, they kept them as slaves. They didn't associate with them on amicable terms.

Boer to mean all Afrikaans speaking whites.

>Also then number of Coloureds and blacks rising from poverty and engaging in social mobility is higher then ever.
Because it's being artificially pushed by the ANC and it's largely failing, the BBBEE has fucked SA like Mugabe did.

>>No worse than the modern US.
>Really nigga?
Fair enough, this was hyperbolous on my part.

It was kinda like Sparta, the whites were free citizens responsible for politics as well as warriors (long military service and reservists of all ages being regularly drafted into the security forces (army and police)). Blacks were the disarmed Helotes who were put down by the ruling minority.

>>1950825
>Yeah, they kept them as slaves. They didn't associate with them on amicable terms.

and various political deals and alliances and conflicts and living near each other in various ways such as what you said.

Boers means the farmer subset hence the name Boers which mean farmers. Afrikaners refer to the whole group.

>Because it's being artificially pushed by the ANC and it's largely failing, the BBBEE has fucked SA like Mugabe did.

Post the stats.

>>1950837
*Helots, not Helotes

>>1950825
Hyperbolic, bruh

>>1950842
Coloureds also refer to themselves as Afrikaners in some context, as they speak Afrikaans, so I wanted to avoid using that term for this reason.

>post the stats
What stats, specifically? BBBEE has shat on the country all over, they have a nation of educated whites and uneducated whites, they then decided the uneducated blacks should have the skilled jobs and the whites shoukd fuck off, this is going as successfully as it sounds.

>>1950846
I have the best words, believe me.

>>1950869
BBBEE is not that though. you are thinking of BEE.

BEE is meant to give businesses an incentive and to hire non-whites. It only fucked up ahrd due to the 2008 downturn fucking up many companies.

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>>1950438

It was shit if you were poor and black.

Then again, being poor and black is shit no matter if it's a racist white man or tolerant and loving Mugabe putting the boot on your neck/.

>>1951112
kek what

I can't tell you much about apartheid as I wasn't alive during it, but I can tell you that it's fucked now

>extremely high crime rate, in both poor and rich areas, because the new government fired most of the experienced white police force
>white farmers are murdered in significantly high numbers, because the government got rid of the kommandos (small units of afrikaans soldiers protecting rural areas), and because the government encourages land eviction of white people
>an education syllabus that teaches nothing at all about white people, and blames everything on us (I didn't even learn about the voortrekkers in history class)
>it's difficult to get into university as a white person, particularly a white male, because universities have much lower score requirements for other races and women
>it's difficult to get a job as a white person, because most companies are required by law to hire a certain percentage of black people
>extremely corrupt police force, who accept bribes, lend their uniforms to criminals and have been known to rape people
>extremely high HIV/AIDS rate, thanks to our past two presidents thinking it was a non issue
>the Rand has plummeted against the dollar. Right now it's like R14 to a dollar
>unemployment is a major factor. Our government has allowed millions of people from all over Africa to pour through our borders, and has destroyed our previously huge textile industry by allowing China to flood us with cheap goods
>the government has made socialist labour unions extremely strong, and now there are yearly protests (strikes) which grinds production to a halt, and makes international companies disinterested

Tldr : Don't let a former marxist terrorist party run your country because of sanctions

The whites had handed over a government to people who had no clue what they were doing, like all African countries.
>ayo mang gibs me da gubmint
>o-okay here you go
>okay so how do I works dis ting?!
>Well, yo-
>YO MAN LET'S MAKE BLACKS GET EVERYTHING AND TAKE AWAY EVERYTHING FROM THE WHITES

>>1950757
2nd world means USSR and their allies, it's not a scale of quality

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>>1950456
yeah, I bet that didn't have anything to do with the SU, china, India and several assorted countries all around. No, the white man would have kept a tiny country that works on exporting minerals competitive in the modern global economy.

>>1950576

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>>1953018

>>1950598
Racial groups tend to be very segregated culturally, and coloreds see themselvesnas a distinct ethnic group as well, just like blacks and whites.

>>1950579
The regime tried to bring every ethnic group into a societal class and segregate them accordingly, not only regarding public infrastructure, but location of housin as well. In America, blacks sat in the back of the bus. In SA, blacks barely even went on buses with whites, because they were sent to live in different regions altogether.

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>>1950438
I've heard it been described as capitalism for the Anglos and Jews, communism for the Boers, and fascism for the Blacks

>>1950658
>the Boers were fiercely independent and didn't interact with the blacks at all

I've been wondering something, did the various Boer republics which resisted the British have a high number of blacks? I've been thinking the reason why the Afrikaners are in such a bad situation today is because their small republics got annexed into the large British colony of South Africa. If those republics has been preserved and "South Africa" never existed, they wouldn't have to live with blacks and be forced to emigrate.

People look back at such historical circumstances and their liberal gland kicks-in, and they celebrate the conquest of The Left over Racism.

They think it wonderful that they and their kin have turned a situation where whites had comfortable lives (within a paradigm that they and they alone created) into one where they are as miserable as the blacks they once tried to avoid

Whites fashioned themselves a civilisation in South Africa out of the ashes of war, famine and religious persecution, and in spite of repeated attacks from the various black ethnic groups in the region

>>1950438
Not a saffer, but one of my best friends was born in the early 80s, so was a kid (with memories) when it all came down.

I've also had three co-workers who are saffers. One is British-Jewish background in her late 40s, from Capetown. One is Indian-Muslim background (he's a total hippie though) in his late 50s from Johannesburg. The other a proper Afrikaaner who still has a strong accent, in his early 40s from some small town. I also once dated a Jewish saffer (well, her parents left before she was born).

And basically, they all said life was fairly good for them. The huge caveat that they weren't black and weren't poor.

The Indian-Saffer does have some bad experiences. He worked as a journalist later, around the actual collapse of apartheid, and he did experience racial abuse by police and was arrested a few times (along with other colleagues) for being at protests (as a journalist). He was interrogated and put in stress positions, hosed with cold water in a cell, but never actually beaten. His (white) boss vouched for him and got him out of prison.

He joined the (then illegal) ANC. He had guerrilla training in Mozambique, and was always paranoid this would be discovered. Had to sneak back/forth across the border during this time, through minefields and the threat of having their car RPGed. He has pics at the camp to prove it. He never participated in any violence, because as an Indian he was more useful for his ease of movement. Not free like whites, but more free than blacks or coloureds. Mostly he helped smuggle (in his estimate) at least a hundred or so guns and countless ammunition and sacks of money from Mozambique. He was able to get away with a lot because he had a professional job and was Indian, he was never suspected of smuggling. Said you were looked down on officially, but respected for being business-savvy. Had lots of white friends in Jo'burg, and otherwise (when not called on a smuggling mission) was really into jazz and smoking pot.

>>1953682
And yea, like I said... for the rest of the white ones, they said life was pretty good. You were insulated from a lot of the misery of blacks, that's why it was called apartheid -- you were separated.

My one friend, who was only 11-12 when apartheid collapsed, said she has NO bad childhood memories about that kind of stuff. They had a black nanny and other black helpers in the apartment gated community they lived in, and they were also polite and friendly with each other. She wasn't even aware of what was happening, probably childhood naivety. She only became aware at the very end, as everyone was talking about it.

Of course, the older ones can recall the social/economic problems of being boycotted by much of the world.

The Afrikaaner I mentioned had been in the army, drafted as all men were. He was in long enough to get some sort of NCO rank, but I don't recall now. It's been several years since I've seen him. He didn't give many details in general (he had converted to Mormonism when I knew him), but he most certainly shot and killed people in battle, and implied torture was routinely used to get information. He seemed to be remorseful of that. The only thing he didn't seem to be remorseful about was firefights with commie Cuban/Russian troops in Angola. Doing the Lord's work and all.

>>1950594
Wait the KaNgs are a real people?

>>1950451
>Khoisans aren't even native to the region

Khoisans are the natives. It's bantus that are foreign invaders like whites.

>>1953682
So the Indian guy helped destroy a regime and then fled to Britain when the new regime he helped create turned out to be shit? And i bet that now he wants Britain to turn more multiculti but will still flee again to another country if it were to happen. That guy is a piece of shit. I wonder how he can watch himself in the mirror in the morning.

>>1953529
There were always *some* blacks around.

>>1954073
This is in Canada, actually. I'm sure you would help have little qualms about 'destroying' a regime that treated you (legally and in everyday-life) as second class. Non-white were forbidden from getting too much education, and he was denied a university education, although his grades were all top (according to him).

And he only came here about 7-8 years ago because he married a Canadian (who is mixed Indian-Chinese Malaysian, herself).

I wonder how you can 'watch' yourself in the mirror in the morning. So much saltiness, you might want to try /pol/, /pol/fag.

>>1953873
HOLUP

>>1954168
Would you know of any sources that detail the number of blacks in the Boer states?

>>1954251
Blacks were the majority in both Boer Republics, though ZAR had many more whites thanks to the gold boom.

>>1952975
That pretty much only happened in Zimbabwe and SA

>>1950451

>moral and based
>human conditions were better

Gonna call you on your bullshit, stormfag

There are still problems within it to be sure, but it's a lot better than it once was

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/05/06/310095463/20-years-after-apartheid-south-africa-asks-how-are-we-doing

>>1953641

Yeah, right after they persecuted, segregated and brutalised the indigenous people.

>hurr we WUZ gud bois we dindu nuffin

>>1954403
>>1954437

The problem is you think oppression comes from outside oneself when in actuality it comes from within. Blacks, Whites, Indians, Chinese and whoever else was better off under apartheid South Africa. The current world is just too stupid to realize it.

>>1950598
Racial community relations are always fraught in SA. Coloureds are their own group, but let's put it this way: they have less trouble from whites than from 'pure' African blacks.

>>1952975
That's what happens when you exclude 90%-95% of your populace for generations, though. Of course it's going to be like a bull in a china shop.

Naturally in the colonial regimes, whites/Europeans put themselves in charge, and maintained the legacy as long as they could. This also meant helping themselves to the best lands. When the tables are turned, what would you expect to happen?

The results in Zimbabwe speak for themselves. Mugabe will be dead soon, though, and maybe some sense will return.

>>1950438
Better then today

>>1954592
>>1953641
>hurr LIBERALS durr
It's telling that you view it as a simplified white/black thing.

Just a reminder that you're not on /pol/, you cretin. This is /his/, where stupid people aren't tolerated.

>>1954612
>It's telling that you view it as a simplified white/black thing.

A false accusation. The left views apartheid as unequivocally evil. If studied non-partially its apparent that its far better than what came after.

>>1953939
Bantus "aren't native" like Hungarians aren't "native" to Europe. For some perspective, they have been in southern Africa three times as long than whites have been in North America.

>>1954652
> For some perspective, they have been in southern Africa three times as long than whites have been in North America.

Timespan is completely irrelevant.

What's the difference in your mind between the Bantu's successfully conquering and settling South Africa against the Khoisans versus Dutch and English successfully conquering and settling South Africa against the Bantus?

>>1954639
Not a false accusation when you (or that anon) are literally applying the labels 'white' and 'black'. You're American, aren't you?

Apartheid is rightly viewed as unjust (evil is a religious term, ya christfag) by almost everyone of liberal (and I mean the true sense of liberal, not your Fox News definition) standing. Even most conservatives parties all over the west acknowledged this, although Cold War realities prevented total rejection.

> If studied non-partially its apparent that its far better than what came after.
I dare you to go to South Africa and make that suggestion to random people on the street. They might agree with you on current economic or political grounds, but I am sure they prefer freedom to apartheid.

If people like you ran the world, we'd all still be in the middle ages.

>>1954692
Timespan is relevant if you're making some kind of argument about 'legitimacy' to land based on time present. Saying Bantus are foreign is silly. It isn't their 'Urheimat', no. But relatively few people today ARE still living in their Urheimat. It's 2016 AD, not 10,016 BC.

>What's the difference in your mind between the Bantu's successfully conquering and settling South Africa against the Khoisans versus Dutch and English successfully conquering and settling South Africa against the Bantus?
Guns, germs and steel (j/k).

>>1954729
>>1954692
>>1954652
>>1953939
IRRELEVANT

ALL THOSE PEOPLE'S ANCESTORS ARE DEAD NOW

if you're a 30 yo south african and were born there, you've been there as long as the other 30 yo SAfricans

>>1954592

>people were segregated, discriminated, viewed as less than human, denied from education, health, and jobs on the basis of their race

>somehow better

>you guys don't realise how good you had it

Stormfags, ladies and gentlemen

>>1954703
> Not a false accusation when you (or that anon) are literally applying the labels 'white' and 'black'.

I actually said White, Black, Indian, Chinese or whoever else. You should read the post instead of giving a knee jerk reaction.

>Apartheid is rightly viewed as unjust

I disagree. Apartheid is perfectly just. The genocide of Boers by animalistic Black hordes is unjust.

>They might agree with you on current economic or political grounds, but I am sure they prefer freedom to apartheid.

Freedom to be poorer, more miserable and less safe than before? If they prefer that its because they don't know any better.

>>1954744
>worlds record of rape and murder on a daily bases

>some how better

You are retard

>>1954754
not him, but, people didn't have running water, electricity, food, healthcare anything

but now there's more (reported) crimes

it's not black and white

>>1954751
>Apartheid is perfectly just. The genocide of Boers by animalistic Black hordes is unjust.
>We should be free to oppress other ethnicities and they shouldn't fight back

>>1954804
because schools and hospitals are built out of nowhere right

because anybody was testing the black populace for HIV those days

it's unsustainable to have 10% of the population get all the resources in a country

you should be asking yourself why they didn't decide to split - possibly because of mines and the fact that white cities are spread around the country

it wasn't just the anc that brought down the apartheid, white south africans were involved too, compromises were reached, and as you can see those 5 million whites are still living there, 20 years later

>>1954804
>Hurr durr why should black people be mad over being subjugated and discriminated by a minority that viewed them as subhuman?

Seriously, are you just in denial that it's basic human nature to not want to be subjugated by an ethnic group that's different from your one? You stormfags hate Jews for the same reason blacks hate whites. Have some fucking self-awareness.

>>1954741
>>1954804
>facepalm.jpg
Nothing to really say.

>>1954751
>Life was better *for everyone* under apartheid!!
>The current world is just too stupid to realize it.
That's some edge there, kiddo.

Time to go back to /pol/, m8.

>>1954833
>still replying to the stormfag

dont waste your time

>>1954861
why do you think they come here

to get antidotes for red pill poisoning

>>1954754

>implying treatment of blacks was any better

>implying there haven't been any improvements

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/07/5-ways-south-africa-changed-after-mandelas-release/

>>1954612
you should leave then

>>1954850
>Seriously, are you just in denial that it's basic human nature to not want to be subjugated by an ethnic group that's different from your one

Why would you think self-aware Whites would put Black desires over their own well being?

>>1954833
>because schools and hospitals are built out of nowhere right

Who designed those institutions? Who knew how to use them? Blacks are entitled to utilize White infrastructure just because they did the menial labor required for its creation.

>because anybody was testing the black populace for HIV those days

Or because Blacks can't control their passions and screw each other like wild animals?

>>1954833
>white south africans were involved too

(((White South Africans)))

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>>1955142
This. Pic related, Nelson Mandela with a (((white south African)))

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>>1954954
>>1954959
>>1955054
>>1955130

friendly reminder

>>1955162
>get offended by facts
>"n-no you guys have to leave right fucking now"
Either prove them wrong or go back to lefty/pol/.

>>1955171
>facts

where?

>>1955162
>triggered

>>1955171

>implying

See>>1954923 then read >>1954959

>>1953018
I know its kind of a meme, but under-reporting is a huge factor that wasn't taken into account in this context.

>>1955171
It's funny that all your """facts""" seem to relate entirely to pushing an ideological stance about modern South Africa and, seemingly, white supremacy. You are not interested in history, but in justifying your modern political stance. That makes it /pol/, not /his/.

Saffer here, born in the mid-90s, parents were born in the late 50s and early 60s in Pretoria and Johannesburg respectively. AMA for anecdotes

>>1956431
give up, people like that simply does not have the cognitive ability to see nuance or beyond its ego.

>>1953018
Spain had a smaller GDP than South Africa in the 70's right now Dpain has doubled SA's GDP

>>1956474

Me too, but I was born in Durbs in '78. Left when I was 14 tho.

>despite everything that's happened and everything people say about it now, I still want to buy a small plot of land on the Hibiscus or Wild coast, dump a couple of cargo containers on it to live in a live the off grid hippie life by the sea, even if it costs me my life. We all gotta die of something.

>>1954744
But anon niggers are less than human

>>1956509

And they say that about whitey.

Welcome to ingroup outgroup 101

>>1950438
It was okay I guess

>>1956524
But whitey is objectively superior to less developed Bonobos

>>1956474
I really love South Africa. I would love to move there in 5-10 years depending on what happens. Do you think things will improve? It's just such a unique and interesting country. I spent 3 months living in a township recently and it wasn't too bad aside from the violence (which I eventually got used to).

>>1956623
I'm white and British by the way.

>>1950579
It was like the Stalinist Soviet Union where you needed a passport to go to other regions of your own nation. Everything was also segregated and some Black tribes had their own reservations similar to the American Indian ones.

>>1956506
Beautiful boet.

>>1956623
I am very optimistic for the country but not in a time-frame as short as that. Political power is draining from the ANC but they still consistently capture about 60% of the vote nationally. If you can abide the violence then go for it, South Africa is beautiful and has excellent weather. My family and I could not and we left some years ago.

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>>1954652
>Hungarians aren't native to Europe
Holy shit. You fucking retard. You took the "we wuz mongolzz" meme seriously.

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>>1950438

>>1956677
what is this shit

>>1956431
The facts are that white settlers were attacked by Africans looking to expand their own 'empires'
After years of fighting between various groups - sometimes between whites with African allies on either side - whitey got the upper hand and developed a wealthy, First World nation outwith the local 'cultures'
Experience of the 'natives' and attempts to broker peaceful agreements over land had proven pointless, and when you've developed a prosperous country in spite of native Africans, why should you allow them to determine its future?

People in Europe and the US think that because South Africa today has a few people in interracial relationships and blacks run the government, it's a fantastic success of multiculturalism and proof we can all work together if we try
In actual fact it has descended into hell, crime has rocketed to a point where half-a-million people work as private security guards, most blacks live in the same way they have since the birth of humanity (except their huts are made of rusting metal, not dung and straw), and whites have been dragged backwards in a small, pointless victory for irrelevant foreign mongoloids like Jeremy Corbyn et al

>>1958431
Sounds like the ancap dream desu

>>1958437
And let's not forget that the average girl is more likely to be raped than to finish school, such is the threat blacks pose to children with their virgin-rape-as-a-cure beliefs

Bump because curious.

>>1960476
What hasn't been discussed that your curious about?

>>1956677
what the fuck is this even supposed to mean

>those arbitrary categorisations

>>1960850
>arbitrary therefore meaningless

morality, law and art are all arbitrary.

>>1956503
which is what happens when you are part of the EU and a service based economy.
South africa being a pariah state for much of it's lifetime didn't help.

>>1956623
guy who moved to SA.
The west cape is good.
Pretoria or Cape town is a good place to live the rest of your life.

>>1960879
South Africa had a great economy

How long until whites are completely gone in South Africa?

White being white, not the sort of Adam Driver ambiguous ''white''.

Not /pol/.
/Co/cksucker here.

>>1960884
yes, when half the world was living in the commie/socialist dream.

>>1960886
Asking because I was reading a post the other day on a gaming forum about how a family of 7 are preparing to move to New Zealand from SA.

Nobody has the pasta of the Russian in SA? That shit is epic son.

>>1960892
It's kinda ironic that people are dissing south africa because of white flight, because I moved to South africa a few years ago from India and most educated blacks want the ANC gone as much as your average /pol/ster. They agree that they were better off under white rule or the ANC at least doesn't represent them anymore, as they are still a party of bix nooders. Its kinda similar to India in that respect actually.

Guess people chimp out everywhere when they come to power.

>>1960887
What would anyone gain from compareing the Apartheid South African economy to those found in 2016?

>>1960892
>>1960886
They'll never leave. Boers consider SA their home, they feel no connection to the Netherlands. It would be like telling all Americans to fuck off back to Britain.

It's funny, though. Saffers possessed all the tools to easily kill all the blacks there, the apartheid government were even working on a disease that only attcked the melanin enriched, meaning they could have killed all the blacks with as lkttle as the breaking of a vial towards the end, but they chose not to, because they wanted to be nice.
Source: http://www.africanglobe.net/africa/proof-south-africas-apartheid-government-developed-germs-kill-blacks/

>>1960911
because the south african economy hasn't changed much compared to where it was since then? They still are largely dependent on exporting minerals. Their petroleum policy for example is in fucking shambles.

>>1960906
A lot of posters are salty Black Americans or Jews who've blamed Whites for all problems since they could speak and can't imagine the world is any other way.

>>1960917

Sounds like retarded conspiracy theory from a biased website

>>1960917
I am not saying that all will leave. Some are already leaving but if I understood the data correctly, the birht rate for whites in SA is below 2.1 and the interracial marriage/breeding rate is increasing.

Whites minority in SA. I'll be surprised if there will be more than 1% whites in SA by the end of the century.

>>1960923
South african landowners and upper strata are still largely white and better off colored folks, which is why it isn't completely shit.

Again,>>1960920. Petro South africa literally has had offers from palaentologists who will look at their samples for free because biostratigraphy was overlooked in south africa forever and the retards will still send spend money and send it to the smithsonian because of random reasons.

>>1960923
>>1960906
The thing is, the biggest advocate of this "fuck whitey" mentality are white liberals and white socialists/communists, blacks overwhelming support white rule because they recognise it as superior to native rule but left wing white people hate the idea of them being inferior.

See also: recent poll saying a majority of Jamaicans want British rule back.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/jamaica/8607495/Most-Jamaicans-believe-UK-rule-better-according-to-poll.html

>>1960937
I doubt that. The anglos are leaving to places like Australia and Britain but the Boers aren't.

>>1960941
There is a difference between
>white people were unduly priviledged and we need to make sure that black people get a level playing field
and
>oogabooga, where the white women at, kill da white man
It's sad that in this CURRENT YEAR they have a lot of overlap.

>>1960955
White people weren't "unduly privileged", though, they effectively administed the countrry at a first world level. Life was better for both blacks and whites under apartheid. Tell me how being raped and not going to school is better than not being raped and going to an admittedly shit school.

>>1960964
because life was worse for non whites that made up most of the country. People are fed up with the ANC because they are going full Bane with the plane that is south africa.

People want the pre zuma days because he is that dogshit of a person and utterly corrupt.

>>1960975
Life was better before the ANC even came to power, for non-whites as well. Since the ANC took power there is no law or order, the ANC got to power by burning whites alive and now the country is ruled by that party. Rule of law was respected before 1994 because punishment was harsh, now it's a mad max country.

>>1960980
Makes you wonder how Trump won the election when 88% of blacks didn't vote for him.

>>1960981
>now it's a mad max country
Its because crime reporting is extemely fucking high and a huge proportion of crime has to do with drug abuse. Giving uneducated nogs tons of money and drugs is a explosive mix, who would have thought?

Punishment was harsh because people were pushing against an oppressive regime that made people second class citizens in their own country and denied them the right to vote or live as equal human beings.

They want zuma out because now that the ANC has done it's work sitting and running the country into the ground isn't exactly what actually educated people want.

>>1960996
>crime reporting is high
>anc is an absolutely corrupt regime where police are bribed and act as mercenaries to the rich
Pick one.

>>1960996
>in their own country
Who founded SA? Who formed the government? Who built the wells, hospitals, bridges and infrastructure?
>b-but muh indigenous
Bantu people are NOT indigenous to SA, they migrated there like the Maori migrated to NZ, the indigenous people are the Khoisans, who actually number fewer than the whites there.

>>1961002
The police does it's job well. It picks up rioting nogs or druggies trying to enter your house and it arrests them, unless you shoot them first. South africa is pretty much two countries in one, one of which is pretty well run and relegated to the largely white and to a lesser extent indian cities while the other is full of dindu bix noods that live in wastelands that the republic of south africa never bothered to develop and was content to strip it of it's mineral rights.

>>1961010
>who built it
only for whites
>bantus don't belong there.
They were part of the republic of south africa when it was formed. They have the same right to remain in the country as an anglo colonist or boer farmer.

>>1961013
The police ignore black on white crime there. "Kill the Boer" is Zuma's official policy.

>>1961016
and zuma is known as a nignog who nearly sold his country's mineral policies to the guptas. The ANC is riding on the tail end of the apartheid era honeymoon. a few more years and they will come crashing.

>>1961032
>implying
The only opposition is known by the derogatory term "the white party", despite being run by a black leader. The ANC has got 60%+ every single election since 1994, it's considered to be supporting apartheid to vote for anyone but them, nothing will change.

>>1961039
>nothing will change
sure.
everything remains static forever anon.

>>1961047
It might change in half a century, sure, but it's not changing for another few decades atleast.

>>1961073
Yeah, because guptagate wasn't real. Zupta is a sham. the ANC losing popularity in more urbanized areas isn't real.

>>1961088
In their municipal elections in August thia year the ANC got 53.91% and the nearest opponent got 26.90%, if change is coming it will take a long time.

File: Winston.jpg (243KB, 1000x1598px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 1000x1598px

>>1954744
you act as if SA is some paradise

this is the third world, there will always be people denied education/health/jobs because there is just not enough of it to go around.

Apartheid was one such solution to that, albeit an Afrikaner bias one (no I will not call it "white supremacist or any other dumb meme, they outwardly banned anglo immigration after 48 which is part of the reason coloureds/Zulus etc outnumbered them so much by the 70's/80's).

Now we have an ANC anti-Afrikaner bias

>>1950438
>>1950456


Also bonus note; Ian Smith argued that should Rhodesia have federalized with SA after the war the NP would have not won the election by three seats and apartheid would never had been implemented. Anglo immigration to SA wold have continued and SA not Australia would have reaped the massive population boom and skilled labour for developing industries.

SA could have been a first world country by now had history been different.

>>1961100
>54%
>in a place where their president is known for being a jailmate with mandela.
Is that supposed to show how strong the ANC is? All they have is the
>muh apartheid
going for them, and as the country keeps becoming more educated and demanding more of their leaders it's going to fall apart. Blaming whitey can only get you so far when your country is being run by blacks.

>>1961107
>they outwardly banned anglo immigration after 48 which is part of the reason coloureds/Zulus etc outnumbered them so much by the 70's/80's).
Source? Not calling you a liar or anything like that I'm just interested in the topic. I didn't think the Afrikaners had that much power befote the adoption of the republic.

>>1961122
Read anything related to the early NP and their polices after 48' and it will touch on it, this was barely 50 years after the Boer war remember so Anglos and Anglo influence was still seen as a major threat to the Afrikaners and their way of life. As such they voted for the Afrikaner party (NP) over smuts who was seen as dillydallying and pro-Anglo.

>The Smuts government's controversial immigration programme served to further inflame Afrikaner disquiet. Under this programme, numerous British immigrants had moved to South Africa and were perceived to have taken homes and employment away from (white) South African citizens. Moreover, it was claimed that the intention behind such plans was to swamp the Afrikaners, who had a higher birth rate than the British diaspora, with British immigrants so that Afrikaners would be outnumbered at the polls in future elections.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_general_election,_1948

>>1961107
>>1961162
I understand how this could have led to a first world white majority SA but I don't see how
>Ian Smith argued that should Rhodesia have federalized with SA after the war the NP would have not won the election by three seats and apartheid would never had been implemented.
would have been benificial towards this goal. Wasn't apartheid a major reason the whites remained in power in the first place?

>>1961199
>>1961199
>Wasn't apartheid a major reason the whites remained in power in the first place?

Whites remained in power because they were more competent and created the state. Only after decades of (((global))) sanctions did they finally succumb to the mob rule of Black hordes.

>>1961199
>would have been benificial towards this goal. Wasn't apartheid a major reason the whites remained in power in the first place?

It's quite simple, Rhodesia was a nation almost completely pro-Smuts and pro-Anglo. Had they federalized with SA in the 30's/40's the Afrikaners would have been outnumbered during the 48' election and Apartheid would not have been implemented.

Remember this was before Aparthied, before the cold war reached its height, before the "winds of change" and before the massive black population boom.

>>1954639
quit with the identity politics. you've so obviously fallen victim to the modern political environment of hating the other side because of their label.

>>1961221
>>1961225
But what mechanism stopped blacks getting majority rule in Rhodesia and would stop blacks getting majority rule in SA+Rho? Surely that was a form of apartheid?

It must be real convenient for /his/ to scream /pol/ at everyone with a different opinion than them
>I-i swear, we're the smart ones

>>1961236
Black Africans did not have the vote, but segregation, language and racial laws were not on the scale of apartheid.


They would have gotten voting rights eventually, but whites would have been the majority and ANC/EFF would not even exist.

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>>1961010
>Bantu people are NOT indigenous to SA, they migrated there like the Maori migrated to NZ, the indigenous people are the Khoisans
Yes and no. They are 'non-natives' in the same way that Anglo-Saxons are a later arrival to Britain than the Celts.
However, they demonstrated the same human willingness to amass land and build an Empire as any whites, but admitting sub-Saharans weren't all sat around campfires singing songs of love and peace before Cave-Dwelling Hairy Honkeys™ arrived is an uncomfortable truth for some to accept.
Let's not forget that the people of Lesotho effectively begged the British to let them become part of their Empire, so as to provide some protection against invading Zulus.

>>1961242
/pol/ does such a fine job of making themselves look retarded that people don't have to bother.

>they would have given niggers rights to vote e-eventually.
>even though they literally never gave british subjects the right to vote until nearly the end of the apartheid because they weren't white.

>>1961331
I'm scrolling through the thread and seeing people dismiss other people's arguments because "they're /pol/"
Real intelligent discourse you got there

>>1961385
their entire argument is that south africa was better for everyone when the apartheid was in place, while conveniently forgetting that blacks were denied passports, weren't allowed to purchase properties in cities at all, would be deported to their "nations" if they misplaced their paperwork temporarily, were systematically denied access to better treatment at hospitals and couldn't start their own businesses in more prosperous areas.
This ended up applying to all Coloured and Indians and when the SA government decided to open up elections to local indians in the natal with a 50% reservation for whites, voter turnout was around 6%.

And of course the entire thing about forced deportations to the Black "Nations" that had little to no infrastructure that conveniently left most of the arable land and developed economy at the hands of the whites.

Now /pol/ expects me to believe that black people are better off under that than they are now.

>>1961455
>forgetting that blacks were denied passports

Blacks wouldn't even have a word for passport if it wasn't for Whites

>were systematically denied access to better treatment at hospitals

Hospitals designed and established by Whites. I'm surprised they treated any Blacks at all but that's White altruism for you.

>couldn't start their own businesses in more prosperous areas.

I wouldn't want a bunch of Blacks crowding around my high end establishment either.

>And of course the entire thing about forced deportations to the Black "Nations" that had little to no infrastructure that conveniently left most of the arable land and developed economy at the hands of the whites.

gimme yo infrastructure White boi
gimme yo farmland White boi
we wuz here first White boi

>>1961455
The hospitals the whites set up were better than the ones before they did and arguably better than the ones after.

>>1961496
>but they would be living in mudhuts so everything else the whites do is alright because nigs who live in the country are baboons.
bravo.
so this is the /pol/ that shows that south africa was better under apartheid.
>white altruism
>black people can only live in black areas and be treated at black hospitals
truly altruistic.
The only place people mingled were in churches.
>you are completely independent and can build your infrastructure.
>we are totally going to take these mineral rich lands/ agricultural tracts btw.
>oh and you can only acquire land in your own "nations"

>
>>1961499
No dumbass, the whites set up good hospitals for themselves and made the niggers go to the shitty overcrowded ones that were always understaffed because
>niggers can't be doctors because the state barely spends any money on their education.
>white doctors unsurprisingly want to stay in white locations.

>>1961536
>black people can only live in black areas and be treated at black hospitals

If blacks act good towards each other why is this a problem?

>you are completely independent and can build your infrastructure.

Whites didn't have magic 24/7 surveillance on everything Blacks were doing. Even if certain rules were in place your retarded if you think Blacks weren't autonomous enough to establish decent infrastructure if they wanted to.

>we are totally going to take these mineral rich lands/ agricultural tracts btw.

le "we wuz here first its all ours" meme

>>1961556
>act good towards each other
which has nothing to do with infrastructure you mong. Leaving most your population with underfunded infrastructure is a pretty shitty thing to do, despite what you may think of what south africa was.

>if they wanted to
you need money to build infrastructure retard. The Whites had the arable land, the mineral rich lands and the major cities and ports taht generated money while leaving the indigenous "nations" to be governed by tribal chiefs who didn't have the financial clout to actually invest in infrastructure.

Your entire argument is
>apartheid SA was better for everyone
when it clearly was better for the whites and no one else.

>>1956659
altough the meme blows it out of proportion, but the hungarians came from the ural mountains which is far from where they currently are.

>>1960864
woah edgy man

>>1961578
>which has nothing to do with infrastructure you mong. Leaving most your population with underfunded infrastructure is a pretty shitty thing to do, despite what you may think of what south africa was.

waaa you didn't give us gibs. meme tier.

>you need money to build infrastructure retard. The Whites had the arable land, the mineral rich lands and the major cities and ports taht generated money while leaving the indigenous "nations" to be governed by tribal chiefs who didn't have the financial clout to actually invest in infrastructure.

How do you think blacks they lived before Whites arrived there? They just needed to do the shit they did before.

>when it clearly was better for the whites and no one else.

See >>1960941

>>1961578
See also >>1960906

>>1961619
I actually wrote both.
People are sick of Zuma selling off South Africa country and slowing down economic growth.
This is what I meant by my comparison with India. The INC much like the ANC got BTFO in state and later national elections once nehru bit the bucket and indira gandhi got assassinated.

>>1958431
I don't think anyone thinks South Africa is a model of success for multiculti. The notions of the completely ignorant can go straight into the trash.

Regardless, you (still) have not shown yourself capable of rational objective arguments.

Funny thing about people who feel historical grievance that they were 'unfairly' beaten and subjugated , is that they don't forget. South Africa was always a shit storm waiting to happen, and it happened in the early 90s.

>>1961672
>South Africa was always a shit storm waiting to happen, and it happened in the early 90s.

It didn't have to be. Unlike failed states like Yugoslavia, South Africa had an established system of race relations for centuries.

>>1960941
>muh feels polls
useless, really.

>>1961683
>lets disenfranchise millions of people who live in our country and make no attempts to qualitatively improve their quality of life or let them have any stake in our country
>in an era of violent decolonization in the same continent
>what could possibly go wrong.

>>1961692
>life was goos under britain
>life is shit now
>poll proves this
>"haha dude thats just how people feel it doesn't count"

>>1962962
Yeah dank polls, like the ones who predicted the Clinton presidency

>>1962972
>still being this clueless as to why the polls were wrong
The "socially unacceptable" option always has less support on polls as people are less willing to identify with it to the pollsters, this is why brexit and Trump were recorded incorrectly. If anything Jamaica is more pro British than anything, as saying you want to be a colony of the white man is highly socially unacceptable.

>>1953061
Is this adjusted for inflation?
If not it's worthless.

Anyone ever seen this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NTcndxuwOA

gets me everytime

>>1963115
>bunch of leftist britons ripping the piss out of white south Africans
I would rather be a pariah state than turn the country over to communist blacks.

>>1963154
The country couldn't survive for any longer. The US stopped supporting it once the USSR fell.

>>1962962
If you really don't understand the fraught politics of nostalgia, you really don't belong on /his/.

Pre-1962 Jamaica had half as many people as today (on the actual island -- there are about twice as many first or second-gen immigrants of Jamaican origins in the US, Canada, UK and other Caribbean countries)

It was a rural and agrarian place, with high illiteracy and child mortality, etc. It still has a lot of rural subsistence farming, but it's far more urban today. It's agricultural (sugar)-based economy became a joke, and it now relies largely on tourism. Pastoral idylls are not only for 19th century Britfags.

>>1964801
Jamaica currently is doing good but the imf austerity measures are hurting it by heavily reducing it's social spending.

>>1961246
>They would have gotten voting rights eventually

By 2030 at the earliest at best but 2050 is a better guess. The voting system heavily was unequal in how it functioned and favored A roll/white votes far more then B roll/Black votes and the way enfranchisement worked pretty much was subject to the will of the government's policies and voter base which could technically delay enfranchisement even more. the delay of "when they were ready make" made no sense because it made voting seem like a gargantuan task that only the few can participate as a poor excuse.

>>1954176
Read about Gandhi's stint in South Afirca as lawyer. It pretty changed him radically and helped him later on in India.

But honestly the way he was treated as educated Indian in SA sucked and Gandhi began to questioned his place in society and his people's standing in the British Empire and the concept of Indianess. Since he wasn't integrated into the social/racial mores of SA at the time he often got in trouble.

>>1952995
I'm using it in a colloquial manner because I think using developing/developed may trigger some folks here

>>1965175
pretty much this.
There is a reason why the
>gandhi being thrown out of a train
is iconic.