Is the world currently undergoing a second religiousness? It

>>1946997
Yes which is good

>>1946997
>Religiousness
No. Liberalism was running on the momentum of religiousness. What's left afterwards is a reversion to pre-religious barbarism.

>>1946997
Second religiousness is something that happens well into the Imperial era, and is heavily associated with a society in decline, readopting religion as a coping mechanism.

According to most proponents of Spengler we in the west are still waiting to transition into the Caesarist era. This sort of conservative backlash to progressivism could more accurately be compared to the ultra-conservative movements of late Republic figures like Lucius Sulla or Cato the Younger

No. Except on /pol/

>>1946997
Religiousness is not the opposite of liberalism

No, just the opposite. Check out Trump, the face of American conservatism: do you see him as leading any sort of religious life?

>>1947020
In that sense, are we not moving into the Caesarist era with all of these right-wing populist movements and the authoritarianism of democratically-elected leaders like Putin and Erdogan?

>>1947209

I associate liberalism with rationalism though.

>>1947710
it's not going to be the same form of religiousness retard

>>1946997
maybe, maybe not

can anything inspire divinity in the "rational" era? it would take an event

>>1946997
>Is the world currently undergoing a second religiousness?
What does your second sentence have to do with religiousness. Only Islamic fundamentalism is religious in nature.

In some places religiousness is indeed increasing, I thought it was Russia and China (both Christianity), and Islam in sub-Saharan Africa.

But in some places of Europe we are seeing a decline of religion. Ideology has taken over.

>>1947015
>No. Liberalism was running on the momentum of religiousness.
I'm not sure 100% what you mean and this is an extremely weird belief but I actually agree.

imo people need religion for some reason. Old religion is on the way out because it's been seriously tarnished by science, but people still want something to tell them purpose, social norms, hope, dictate morality, etc. Solution: they've been finding religion in other more modern friendly things like liberalism and capitalism.

>>1947724
Caesar was a populist tyrant and a reaction to the ultra-conservative take-over of government.

Many people thought that Spengler had predicted Hitler as the western Caesar but Spengler himself did not agree, even when Naziism was in its ascendancy.

>>1948272
Are we forgetting that Caesarism itself lasts 2 centuries, and Caesar was preceded by Sulla?

>>1948268
>I'm not sure 100% what you mean and this is an extremely weird belief but I actually agree.
Another anon here. Are you implying that liberalism has religious undertones? If you ask me any ideology has faith and belief elements, some just less as others.

I would still make a distinction between ideology and religion because religion usually includes rituals that ideology tends to lack.

People who are interested in this kind of thing should read John Gray, who argues that liberalism, especially the progressive kind, really is just Christianity in disguise.

>>1948277
Sulla was the man who permanently crippled the Republic in his zeal to save it from the scourge of change.

Caesarism starts when Caesar Augustus assumes power as a government-within-a-government, setting himself up as the most important man in the Empire while carefully maintaining the outward appearance of preserving the republic, while perpetuating the personality cult of Caesar and maintaining a corps of secret police (the Praetorian Guard) to maintain his iron grip on power, which he passes on to an adopted heir.

In the Spenglerian tradition it's the point at which blood politics triumphs over money.

>>1946997
is that hank from bb

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>>1946997
>and even in places like the Philippines, with people like Duterte.
Duterte is an atheist, and the shit kind that becomes so because he hates being criticized by the church. His vitriol stems from the Catholic church has always highly critical of his methods of law enforcement, human rights abuses, and just recently, the burial of the dictator Marcos in a cemetery marked for military dead. He has insulted the pope, called Church leaders worthless, and goes as far as to support gay marriage to undermine the Catholic Church.

If anything, Flips are becoming edgy atheists right now because of how popular fucking Duterte is. The same people who greeted the pope in droves under the rain are now cursing the church are now becoming unthinking atheists since their shitty lord and master says so.

Maybe if you don't apply western right/left understanding to everyone in the world, you'd understand Duterte. There were never any true liberals/rightists in the Philippines, just shades of center-conservatives with a dash of liberal ideas here and there if I am forced to explain it.

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What went wrong?

>>1948316
mis-post

>>1948278
>Another anon here. Are you implying that liberalism has religious undertones?
Yeah I am. More so "advanced" liberalism of today in the form of SJWism. But it's incomplete. In fact I'd argue the popularity of social justice is in part because it has quasi-religious elements people secretly crave.''

>John Gray, who argues that liberalism, especially the progressive kind, really is just Christianity in disguise.
Well I haven't read John Gray but that's what I was thinking.

Particularly there are some obvious overlaps to the concept of "problematic" in SJWism and sin. Some people deep down believe life is uncertain and one of the needs to navigate it is an iron set of rules to help you live the "righteous" life. Distinguishing pure actions from corruption, a person living a "pure" life has a path to the best life, a mechanism to grade themselves and peers on a moral hierarchy, a distinction from people in the moral in group vs the out not to be trusted out group, a hope for heaven (this time on earth) when all submit to the new purity norms and utopia follows. Modern liberalism offers this to those who don't trust the Church.

>>1948302
Funnily this Conservative Filipino I know hates him and loves to call him Dutnigger and a Commie

>>1946997
This is the most reductionist piece of shit I've read today.
Christ OP, go read a book.

>>1948316
You want the real answer?

bishops are afraid of bringing down the hammer because they dont want to drive away already dwindling congregations in western countries.

They care more about filling the pews than enforcing orthodoxy

>>1947724
A Caesarist era today would be more like the US becoming communist than ultra-conservative on the count that Caesar was a leftist.

>>1949062
Trump´s rhetoric was quite populist though

>>1949097
Trump's rhetoric was more demagoguery than populism by classical standards.

>>1949101
>Populism is a political ideology that holds that virtuous citizens are mistreated by a small circle of elites, who can be overthrown if the people recognize the danger and work together. Populism depicts elites as trampling on the rights, values, and voice of the legitimate people.

>A demagogue or rabble-rouser is a leader in a democracy who gains popularity by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation.

Kinda both, but "demagogy" is more of a method rather than worldviev.

>>1946997
Religiosity is currently declining in the West.

>>1949121
I should stress the "classical standards" aspect, when I say "populism" I mean in the sense of the Populares. In the modern day the cause of the plebs is the cause of the proletariat. Trump fundamentally is an Optimate to the core that acts as a demagogue.

In this way were someone to be a modern Ceaser it would be someone from the bourgeoisie who takes up this cause. Such as say some kind of militant Engels.

Trump can be one of the first symptoms of meme politics triumphing over money politics. 4chan vs the MSM

>>1950826
don't flatter yourself

>>1946997
Hopefully
We need another great awakening
Wickedness must be stamped out

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>>1946997
>second religiousness

Isn't that when all religions merge into one big one?


I hate it when people use spengler without understanding what he meant.

>>1949152
Where can did you get this?

>>1951032
It just seems like fundamentalism is on the rise in the world. People itt have a pretty narrow view of what religion or religiousness consists of. It's not about what god(s) you believe in or what church you attend. All religions, at some fundamental level, are driven by the desire for purity, something which is repressed in a liberal-rationalist society.

>>1951084
>""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""purity""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>1951084
oh yeah, those crazed orgies in the woods eating raw animal flesh for Dionysus were all about purity

>>1951108
Yes, actually they were. They were about primal release.

>>1951108
You do realize the Beats thought of their Dionysian behaviors as exemplifying Spengler's second religiousness?

>>1946997
Nationalism isn't inherently religious.

>>1946997 The Magian and Tao has been riding the Faustian. The Faustian is in money/caesar phases. The Slavic culture is the youngest and emerging, and may have interrupted our decay. He said it was culture becoming some kind of diagonal line.

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>>1949062
I believe that whatever Spengler meant by Ceasarism, it would certainly be shaped by the culture it rose from, and so, simply searching for someone directly replicating Julius Ceasars policies will not reveal anything of value. Ceasarism is not being the poor peoples champion, but rather " victory of force politics over money. Incresing primitivness of of political forms". Pic related, from the table at the end of Decline of the west. The ceasar is recognozed by his means, not his ends.

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>>1946997
>It seems that liberalism is in decline all around the world, in the West (where nationalists are surging in popularity), in the Middle-East (where Islamic fundamentalism is now the norm), and even in places like the Philippines, with people like Duterte.
Dutdut is an atheist communist who supports gay marriage. He's currently making Pinoys into 3edgy4me contrarians because he is le populist president. And because of that, what is happening is is a decline of liberalism...from both sides of the political spectrum. More like wtf is going on.
>Human rights? Lol, an obstacle!
>There is nothing wrong with socialism!
>China is our friend. Fuck da USA!
>Catholicism is evil. Clearly multi-faith and atheism is the way to go!
You really can't put Philippine politics in a left/right context.

>>1948268

religion isnt 'tarnished by science'
religion has betrayed itself and regressed from mystical and metaphysical domains into pure mundanenes

this is most exeplified by christian fundie creationists, who practicaly blasfeeme in their literal reductions of religious narative to shere descriptions of material process, or churches in england and northern europe that have devolved to theological equivalents of mild self help groups where anyone is welcome to just sit and relax

religion has become just empty ritual and vague, non-binding beliefs one identifies with sort of, it has lost all active substance

thats part of the appeal of all these radical groups in one religon or the other, they offer this sudden overload of active substance

When Trumps economic reform starts showing results the leftist masses are going to be redpilled hard. They will forcefully understand that Trump wasn't literally Hitler but really wanted to make the country great again. That's going to cause some changes in peoples minds, maybe break the mind control spell that is leftist indoctrination. The future is exciting.

>>1953372
Yes, this might be the time supply side dogma works, despite blowing up horribly in the faces of George W. Bush, Sam Brownback, and Bobby Jindal and basically anywhere else in the country that tried it without being lucky enough to be sitting on a huge cache of natural resources.

But if the economy doesn't live up to Trump's wild predictions, who will they have left to obstruct?

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>>1947724
any caesarist movement in the west will likely come from the left.
Why?

Caesarism is seen as pure political power trumping (no pun intended) money.
Understanding this together with the concept that universalism and socialism are the pure secular form of western spirit, a Caesar is likely to come from a reinvigorated progressive/social-democratic movement.

Think FDR.

>>1953446
To me it sounds more like, a small group gets hold of nukes and uses them. Nukes are the power today, they are the sword of modern warfare. If an group outside of the big governments got nukes and decided to say, blow up the 20 biggest city centres in the world, that could cause some change

>>1948278
...or read Spengler, who was saying this exact same thing 100 years ago, actually going deeper than Gray in his thesis.

Though John Gray is pretty cool too, lending a more contemporary look to the concept

>>1946997
actual liberalism hasn't existed since kennedy in the west

>>1947710
But he's hardly conservative at all.

>>1949056
Which is silly because only the more conservative congregations manage to fill their churches. Look at the incredibly fast dwindling Methodists and Episcopalians.

>>1953486
That's because conservative congregations attract old people.

Younger generations are becoming less religious as they get older, completely reversing the previously stable trend that people tend to become more religious as they age.

>>1946997
The failpenises are religious in their own sick way. Instead of dong something about their ridicolous job market, they single out the scapegoats (people who are harmless and looks funny).

http://www.philippinefailblog.com/job-employment-madness-in-the-philippines/

Just some documents that's should go with your application:

>Proof of Citizenship if a foreign sounding name
>Mayors clearance
>Old school leaving certificate.
>MEDICAL EXAMINATION – What? an STD check?
>Xrays which are redone every 6 months
>Certificate of employment
>Birth certificate
>If have children – the business asks for their birth certificates as well!
>A map of your house – simple, if you steal, the business knows where to find you. If you die on the job, the business knows where to dump your body.
>Blood tests – blood type

>>1953456
I work with nukes, and no, they aren't magical super weapons. They're basically useless if your enemy doesn't live in wooden houses.