When was America great?

Before 1776

>>1941915
When the didn't outsource work

>>1941915
Right now

Never

>>1941915
Anytime before the declaration of independence.

>>1941915
From the end of the civil war to the end of the second world war

1950s

in b4 butt blasted black "people" and commushits

before the 10th–11th century

>>1941915
1945-present

>>1941915 When we were busy working and expanding our free market instead of complaining about immigrants taking our jobs.

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>>1941936
>1914-Present
ftfy

>>1941915

america is great because america is good

>>1941941
was he the last true dolichocephalic Aryan president we will ever have?

1991-2001

>>1941966
/thread

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>>1941915
>1910-1929
>1941-1965
>1989-2001
>2017-

>>1941915
Apollo program

>>1941915
The general era between FDR to Nixon?

After Reagan it was tumbling down

>>1941980
>2001 - 2016
>it wasn't great.

>>1941994
I'd be willing to narrow down the really /comfy/ part to 1953 to 1963.

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Always.

>>1941998
Between the Bush years and the Obama years we've seen a slow decline in our country. If you're a moralfag it wouldn't be hard to argue our culture is declining. Stagnant economy. Rights slowly being infringed upon. We even have a growing portion of the country who want to modify the bill of rights to nullify 1st and 2nd amendment. Also rioting and protests over a completely legal election because they don't like the candidate who won.

>>1942041
Actually what's the time limit to talk about shit on this board? 20 years?

>>1942003

The precise era of my father's boyhood, which he has always remembered fondly, and which he has always deeply lamented gave way to counter-culture, drug culture, and general rot.

I once said to pop, half-jokingly, not /fully/ understanding what I was saying, looking playfully for a bit of a rise or a pushback: "Baby boomers. Worst. Generation. Ever."

Without missing a beat, dad rejoined in a very serious voice: "Yes, you're absolutely right. I am deeply ashamed and very sorry for what my generation has done to this country."

>>1942041
>Also rioting and protests over a completely legal election because they don't like the candidate who won.
drumpf is a retard whose gonna destroy the county

he should be removed from office just for wanting to fuck with the EPA

this is not a joke

>>1942041
>our culture is declining.
and yet more of the world is following american cultural trends.
>rights slowly being infringed upon.
True.
>modify the bill of rights.
pretty sure that it isn't a significant part of the states, largely echochambers on the internet.
>protests
are all part and parcel of a democracy.

>>1942048
The second you remove an elected official from office because you dislike their policies and nothing else you completely invalidate the political system of our country. Nothing would destroy us quicker than having a sizable portion of the country watch their elected president get pulled out of the white house by a mob of city dwellers. /pol/tards like to talk about revolution and shit but that could actually start a civil war.

>>1942059
Realistically, the USSS would probably be able to shuffle Trump around on Air Force 1 long enough for loyal forces to put down any coup.

And you bet your ass the military is loyal, being that most of them are Republicans and Trump is pledging to bring the military back to pre-sequestration levels.

It's fun to overthink shitposts.

>>1942068
>reduce taxes
>reduce debt
>increase mil size.
what?

>>1942068
Have we ever had a coup that actually went past the planning stage? I can't imagine how badly that would fuck up our country in this day and age.

>>1941915

1776 to the present.

>>1942076
No, but the business plot might have been real.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

>>1942068
Wait, why would an isolationist want to expand the strongest army in the world?

Especially when he's going to be a bro with Putin.

>>1942088
Because right wingers like it, and because if the US isn't relying on allies for some of its defense, its military needs to be bigger, not smaller.

Mostly because it's a popular policy among right wing voters.

>>1942093
>Because right wingers like it, and because if the US isn't relying on allies for some of its defense, its military needs to be bigger, not smaller.
Defense from what? If something then the Navy can be useful for bullying PRC

>Mostly because it's a popular policy among right wing voters.
That was my guess too and tbeh it would be the first promise I'll break if I was Trump

America has never been great

>>1941931
From a communist standpoint the US was much better in the 50s than it is today

>>1942105
Well, defense contractors have deep pockets, and the military is one of the most popular institutions in the US.

I wouldn't go around screwing with the military-industrial complex if I intended to actually govern the US as a Republican. That'd be an easy way to lose my base and have Congress turn against me.

And frankly, if I were Trump, I'd be more than a little concerned about a coalition forming in the Senate between Democrats and anyone-but-Trump Republicans, and actively fucking me senseless.

>>1942119
Are there still that many anti Trump Republicans in Congress? I thought most of them bent the knee? If they fuck this up and turn a Republican majority congress into fucking 2 years of fucking boredom I'll be pissed.

>>1942048
>drumpf
This is why people think you're autistic anon.

>>1942053
>and yet more of the world is following american cultural trends.

Elaborate

>>1941915
1776-1960
1980-1990

>>1942137
american culture and social trends are becoming incredibly popular in India for example.
Although that might have more to do with a fascination with america.

>>1942093
For the same reason he's trying to ally with Russia and antagonize China by asking them to remove Kim Jong Un from power... He's preparing for a cold war with our biggest economic competitor, one that involves Russia on our side or just refraining from engaging in it all together.

>>1942053
American "culture" is a disease that must be wiped out. America must perish and balkanize. You're a cuck.

>>1942105
c. >>1942151

>>1941915

After racism but before abortion

>>1942072
This has literally been an argument against him for a while. The dems are retarded in that they tried to make social issues their platform when they should've been pointing out that Trump's fiscal policies are basically magic hand waving.

>>1941931
The problem is America was mainly great because everybody else was in a shit position following WW2. That gave the US an incredible position to be a world power.

This idea of making America great again by returning to 1950's policies isnt going to work when the rest of the world isn't in the 50's any longer.

>>1942161
when will Democrats finally realize that appealing to SJWs and giving the middle finger to their young voters sabotaged any chance they had at the presidency. minorities and lgbt people are always gonna vote democrat, there is literally no sense in wasting so much effort on them when they're a locked vote and every second you spend rambling about muh minorities and muh gays just makes your average straight white guy give out a huge sigh and look at their phones.

those people on their phones are the people that would have voted for hilary if she actually attempted to target them. she lost because she didn't appeal to the only vote she actually needed: the white man's.

>>1942183
The loudest voice carry the highest.

Besides, both parties thought the new hispanic vote would be enough to carry Hillary.

As it turns out, black and Hispanic voters actually liked Hillary a lot less than they did Obama.

Really, it all comes down to the pure arrogance of the DNC.

>>1942189
I've been saying this since the beginning and so have a lot of others, but I'll say it again:

Bernie would have smashed trump in this election with ease. he would have got more of the white vote because he's a white man and he would have I inspired the young vote to come out like they did for Obama. Instead the Democrats wanted to push their SJW female power fantasy onto the public and it backfired tremendously. Dems like to pretend that the Republicans are fractured but really bernie fractured the Democrats more than anything. They're the ones with identity problems now.

>>1942189
I have to agree with this.

The dems could've had a perfectly solid even further left platform in Sanders or a very popular compromise candidate in Biden.

But no, they just had to jam the second most unpopular candidate in history down America's throat, a candidate with horrible approval ratings even before she was seriously running.

They undermined their own democratic legitimacy to force her through, and wound up losing everything in the process. While Trump winning disgusts me, because him being the champion of the middle and working classes has got to be the worst case of false consciousness I've ever seen, the only ones who are really to blame is the democratic establishment and their cronyism.

>>1942197
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

JIM WEBB

>A+ rating from the NRA
>killed a shitload of VC
>committed Democrat

>>1942197
this.

As a nonamerican living in america, I like how the establishment was tacitly implying that bernie was being supported by blue collar american whites which meant that he was racist, while the gentleman had gone to prison when he was fighting segregation.

He also seems like an upstanding guy with a clean political life.

>>1942152
t. Saif "Green flag over red fort and a harem for every paki" Ali.

>>1942204
Too moderate to carry the nomination. He'd actually make a decent sane Republican. I tend to lean liberal but I'd vote for him.

>>1941915
Landed on the Moon first.
First successful aircraft.

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>>1942197
agreed entirely

>>1942230
impressive.
So why did bernie sama become more so much more popular among the youth?

>>1942235
Probably because he wants to legalize weed.

>>1942248
so does trump.
And half of trump's speeches sounded like he ate a whole bag of brownies before speaking.

>>1942235
Because he was talking to a disilluded post 9/11 generation that saw american capitalism for what it is in reality.
Because he was proposing the european social demoscratic standard of 50 years ago in America.
Because putting a socialist in the white house is more of a revolution than putting a nigger or woman.
Because the youth in america seems smarter than everybody in that shit hole

>>1942204
None of the Democrats were given a fair shot. Once it became common knowledge that Hillary had cheated in the primaries, and then nominated establishment darling Tim Kaine as her running mate, her base had been completely deprived of energy or enthusiasm. What's amazing is that Donald Trump actually got fewer votes in 2016 than Mitt Romney did in 2012 and yet he won. That's how much people hated Hillary.

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>>1942263
so you are saying that a lot of people might have voted for bernie sama but voted for Trump san instead because Hillary chan was a fucking maniac who got strongarmed into the election cycle?

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>>1942221

>>1942235
Advocating for free college and tapping into a lot of feelings of betrayel by the establishment and anti-capitalist sentiment caused by the recession.

>>1942263
>Because the youth in america seems smarter than everybody in that shit hole
All we have to do is survive the Baby Boomers, a.k.a the generation that elected Ronald Reagan in a landslide. Once they start dying off in about 10 to 15 years or so, Republicans are going to realize just how hollow their victory in 2016 was when this behemoth of a voting bloc gets older and more politically active.

>>1942269
>internet speed
do people not realie that places like Japan, SoKo et al have highly concentrated populations and laying down internet for them is far more cost efficient than the middle of alabama?

>>1942268
>a lot of people might have voted for bernie sama but voted for Trump san instead
Not as many as you'd think. When the base isn't galvanized, they aren't out motivating people to show up, so fewer people showed up to vote. People just stayed home.

>>1942278
Yeah... But the other 11 things?

Mid to late 90s.

>>1942284
so a lot of americans just sat home because they were apathetic and expecting hillary to win?

>>1942275
You're (falsely) assuming that millennials will slurp down whatever dribble you personally advocate. Will the unrest and dissatisfaction caused by Boomers, the Neoconservative/Neoliberal economics, and globalism still be around in 10 or 15 years? You're also falsely believing the Republican party is static in any way shape or form.

Our parties aren't like Parliamentary Parties. They're closer to Coalitions. You're also fundamentally misjudging WHY people vote for Conservatives in the first place. As an example: There's a reason the "Hispanics are conservatives!" meme exists: Once you have something, you don't want to lose it, and if it gets taken away from you you want to get it back.

>>1942289
>and expected Hillary to win

Not really, they just didn't care who won or lost. They felt neither candidate was in their best interest.

>>1942294
Nigga what? The only Hispanic demographic that consistently votes conservative are Cubans, mainly because of anti-communist sentiment. And that's a dying breed.

>>1942286
I will try and answer them one by one.
>life expectancy.
nearly every country above the US is tiny as fuck and has a relatively good economy and better healthcare. Once universal healthcare comes' america will get better.
>democracy
this is pretty dumb as a chart. How do you measure democracy?

>freedom of press.
Same thing.

>smallest prison population.
Well, I am Indian, and I know that the Indian state has followed a long policy of rehabilitation because it's far cheaper that way.

>mobile phones per capita.
exactly what is this supposed to show?
America has more phones than probably all of those countries in the list because it's far larger population.

>renewable energy use.
America is a major economy and has access to large quantities of fossil fuel that it uses.

>quality of healthcare
indefensible.

>scientific literacy
I suppose it comes down to america being far more diverse than smaller and homogeneous european countries

>survival rate.
Related to healthcare.

>>1942298
It's an example, like homosexuals and women voting Republican even though big corporations tell them voting Republican isn't in """""""""""their interest""""""""""".

>>1942275
Yes.
Bernie and Trump got more in common than you think.
Both were the underdogs, both were anti-establishment.
One was a crazy sociopath, one was the only good candidate in america since Al Gore.
Guess who won.
People voted him because he is an underdog, half of them don't know even what is his real program, besides the memes

>>1942275
The real problem is the popolar trend on global scale. People are gettin tired of the establishment and are angry, so they vote the first asshole or thing that seems a bit anti establishment or corntrarian.
I mean look at brexit, look at trump now, look in france with Marine Le Pen.
People vote for protest of blinded by anger.
Nobody seems to notice that people like Trump were made rich by system. Why should they change things?

>>1942289
>so a lot of americans just sat home because they were apathetic and expecting Hillary to win?
10 million fewer people showed up to vote in this election, and almost all of it were people who had voted for Barack Obama. Democrats sorely underestimated just how much people disliked her.

>>1942294
>You're (falsely) assuming that millennials will slurp down whatever dribble you personally advocate.
It's not about personal advocacy, it's about raw numbers. The youth turned out in droves to vote for Obama, and they turned out in droves to vote for Bernie Sanders. They're substantially more socially liberal and far more ethnically heterogeneous.

>"Hispanics are conservatives!"
Except that the data does not corroborate that. Hispanics turned out in record numbers to vote for Hillary. It just wasn't enough to carry her to electoral victory, especially when Donald Trump had completely hoovered up the blue collar and uneducated white vote.

>>1942307
>Why should they change things?
Why shouldn't they? He's rich as fuck and if he suddenly decided to he could live out the rest of his days with his supermodel wife on a farm in Kentucky. Instead he chose to become President to help people.

People aren't computers that are constantly acting solely in their self interest according to what will make them the most money, anon.

>>1942304
>How do you measure democracy?

Could be democratic participation, or an evaluation of how policy reflects local sentiment. Could also reflect level of representation (as in each representative represents a smaller number of people and there are more representatives as a result, resulting in a more democratic structure, closer to direct democracy).

>>1942312
You're missing the point and twisting around an analogy: The entire reason the youth came out for Bernie and Obama is because of dissatisfaction over specific factors and you are falsely assuming those same factors will dissatisfy people in the future.

>>1941915
After we won WWII

[spoiler]aka the 50s[/spoiler]

>>1942306
it's almost as if Hillary ended up being hated by everyone because she was an undeserving candidate that tried to ride on the coattails of other more deserving candidate.

The same thing happened in India for example in 2014.

>>1942315
>democratic participation.

ok, take a look at this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#Democracy_index_by_country_.282015.29

I am personally doubtful about the numbers of India, since they consistently show India to have lower participation scores, but India consistently has 80% voter turnouts in their national elections. Civil liberties are effectively rare in india, but there are far more local level political parties in India that appeal to very many different people or pursue different policies.

>>1942304
>life expectancy.
Related to healthcare
>Once universal healthcare comes' america will get better.
Oh boy...
>Democracy
You mesure democracy counting in how many choices the popolation were the direct voters
>Freedom of press
C'mon don't bullshit me. People in america can't write or say a lot of things
>Smallest prison population.
Still one state doesn't mean nothing. The idea of rape in prison was born in america.
And you got a lot of the worst prisons on the
earth
>renewable energy use.
Yeah invading countries like iraq and shit. Still if you are that big in economy you should invest more in green energy
>quality of healthcare
We agree
>scientific literacy
I don't think so. America school sistem is one of the worse that's why half of your reserchers and programmers come from other countries
>survival rate.
Related to the fact that you are one of the most crime high countries in the world. The fault is in you capitalist mentality

>>1942314
>People aren't computers that are constantly acting solely in their self interest according to what will make them the most money, anon.

Except Trump's record shows that precisely what he does and has done for the last 40 years. You actually expect a 70 year old man to suddenly change their ways?

>to help people
He's cutting taxes on his businesses and family in half and is charging the Republican party for all of the rallies and events held at his businesses, which he chose to rally and campaign at.

He's helping himself, anon. It remains to be seen if he'll actually help anybody else.

>>1942314
>Help people
C'mon don't fucking bullshit me that way.
You just fell for the same meme of Italy 20 years ago with Berlusconi

>>1942183
Because Hillary is a republican that wanted the democratic vote.

>>1942329
> America school sistem is one of the worse
:^)

>>1941915
Ironically Trump's presidency will see the beginning of the end of American hegemony. His isolationism will only make American power decline, and China rise. Not to mention it will be during his presidency America will most likely lose the spot of largest economy to China.

>>1942322
>and you are falsely assuming those same factors will dissatisfy people in the future.
I sincerely doubt that the next 4 years are going to be anything but another failed experiment in supply side dogma. Most of Donald Trump's pro-nationalist policies will be opposed by democrats and the business-wing of the Republican party who don't want to see their sweetheart deals meddled with. His plan to build a wall will be obstructed by SJWs and fiscal hawks. About the only thing he and Paul Ryan agree on is more tax cuts and deregulation for the rich.

In other words, when they do to America what Sam Brownback did to Kansas, 2020 will turn into a real gloomy year for Republicans

>>1942329
>half of your reserchers and programmers come from other countries
because american universities are ranked among the best in the world and have far more academic freedom than most places on earth. America excels in attracting the best and brightest from around the world.

>renewable energy usage.
but unlike countries like India or CHYNA that don't have large oil reserves, america does. Forget fracking. There is a huge amount of oil off the gulf coast that is unrecoverable economically with current tech. If tech advances it will be exploited.

You need petroleum for other things than running cars.
>people in america can't
but they can and they did. America effectively remains one of the freest places on earth. A website like 4chan would be deleted in Merkel's germany.

>still one state.
India is pretty much like the US in it's make up and structure. Privatizing prison was a huge mistake IMO.
>survival rate.
it has to do with general healthcare.

>>1942348
If you have to pay is not a good sistem

>>1942354
how is building a wall practical when people can buy plane tickets?

>>1942357
>A website like 4chan would be deleted in Merkel's germany.
You should travel more often man, seriously.

>renewable energy usage
Again, not an excuse

>Because american universities are ranked among the best in the world and have far more academic freedom than most places on earth. America excels in attracting the best and brightest from around the world.

If you have to pay is not good

>>1942360
A better question to ask is why build a wall when actual illegal immigration between America and Mexico has fallen precipitously during the Obama years and is actually negative these days? (more people returning to Mexico than coming to America)

>>1942368
A better question to ask is: Have you fallen for the wall meme?

>>1942368
Not to mention a big ass wall isn't going to do anything to stop people who come in on work visas and then don't leave when they expire.

>>1942368
how to get white vote
>make wild promises you can't keep
>build a caudillo cult of personality

Congratulations it no longer matters what you said, you're president now.

>>1942368
So you're okay with rapist drug lords coming to the country so long as they flee across the border when the heat is on to them, is that it?

>>1942041
>Also rioting and protests over a completely legal election because they don't like the candidate who won.

Because it wouldn't have happened if Clinton won right!?

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>>1942367
>not an excuse
The US is far larger than every other first world country. Having a huge country and economy going requires a diverse energy basket.. It's why the transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy seems so painfully slow. Using fossil fuels is also far more efficient in terms of energy output.
Once nuclear power becomes more widespread we will see more longterm green energy generation.

>>1942376
Reminds me of this which I saw posted here before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

>>1942372
>Have you fallen for the wall meme?
I believe what people are really asking for is the return of pork spending. They want federal tax dollars flowing back into domestic spending projects rather than paying for tax cuts where the money will just sit unused in some rich asshole's overseas bank account.

In the days before gridlock pork projects were an important part of getting congressmen to go along on legislation, and they touted the good they did for their constituents like it wasn't some horrific sin. At least not until people caught the "true conservative" virus

>>1942376
how concrete was Obama's platform in '08 to get so many black people to vote for him?

trump is Obama for corn farming white people

>>1942183
>when will Democrats finally realize that appealing to SJWs and giving the middle finger to their young voters sabotaged any chance they had at the presidency. minorities and lgbt people are always gonna vote democrat, there is literally no sense in wasting so much effort on them when they're a locked vote and every second you spend rambling about muh minorities and muh gays just makes your average straight white guy give out a huge sigh and look at their phones.

Because you occasionally have to throw your constituents some red meat in order to keep them voting for you, otherwise they'll abandon you for someone else the same way republican voters abandoned the mainstream GOP for Trump.

>>1942376
The anger that Donald Trump touched on is real, and it sure as shit wasn't being touched by the insulated, tone deaf Clinton campaign. Bernie Sanders was touching on it too, before the DNC throttled that baby in its crib

>>1942382
wew

>>1942403
those jobs that trump promised aren't going to come back unless the rust belt folk want to work on wage competitive with the chinese.

>>1942211
Eurofag here,

Bernie would have likely been my choice as well. The Democrat part made the mistake of supporting the "Establishment" candidate at the time where people wanted an outsider.

Bernie is guaranteed the liberal White woman vote, the majority Latino and Black vote by virtue of being a democrat; basically every vote which went to Hillary, PLUS a portion of the Working-Lower Middle class white male and female votes.

At least that's how I see it; I'm not in the country so there's probably a lot I'm missing

>>1942403
He's a crowd pleaser, it's easy to get rednecks shouting and celebrating, it's like a southern pass time to get riled up by some racist hillbilly speech. Literally any asshole can do it, Boyds Crowder's character on Justified was basically a parody of this, showing that even a pure evil villainous piece of shit like Boyd can rally rednecks behind him with one good speech.

Disregard the fact that he's a retard that wouldn't learn proper policy management if he was paid to learn it, he gives a good speech and that's all rednecks care about.

>>1942412
The guy you responded to.
Bernie was also a far better motivator than Hillary clinton ever was, and he didn't have anything on the level of dirt that trump and hillary were throwing at each other.

America had a chance to get a person who would bring about real change, with people united under him, and the democrats throttled it so that they could get a president with tits.

>>1942268
>but voted for Trump san instead
No, they just didn't vote. Trump got less votes in just about every demographic than compared with Romney in 2012. The Dem core, and the left especially, simply despised Clinton enough to not give her a chance.

The best part of all this is that the Dem establishment won't learn a fucking thing about this come the 2020 election, and all the non-centrists won't do a thing to tell them to fuck off outside of abstaining, leading to this dumb shitshow all over again.

t. PSL voter

>>1942412
no you have it totally right. the crossover appeal bernie had was huge compared to clinton - old white man who supports the undereducated white working class vs a member of the financial & political elite who really doesn't give a shit about anybody.

add in sander's comparatively moderate stance on gun rights, & imo he would've had the general in the bag, "socialist" or not.

>>1942201
>Biden
I don't think he wanted to run. He would have been in a low energy race with jeb to the bottom.

>>1942425
>low energy
what is this meme?
>>1942420
So burgers just shrugged about who would be president when the election was incredibly divisive and down to the wire?

>>1942382

We bring them here as cheap labor, and keep them working here long after their work visas expire.

https://mic.com/articles/8272/alabama-illegal-immigrant-crackdown-destroys-farm-business#.V3Lqg5uLC

>>1942197
>Bernie would have smashed trump in this election with ease.
Trump could've said nothing but "socialism?" while shrugging for the last 2 months and triggered enough people to win a landslide against Bernie.

>>1942411
They kind of do though, that's why they hate the minimum wage. Cost of living in the rust belt is very low.

>>1942435
We'll see how they like $1.50 an hour

>>1942432
surely americans can't be that retarded.

>>1942435
Is it second world factoryprison tier low?

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>>1942269
>Democracy
How do you even measure that?
>Lack of corruption
If there's no money or power, of course. My Church's Coffee Hour is corruption free too.
>Mobile Phones per Capita
How is this a measure of anything? My 19mo son doesn't have a phone, and he shouldn't at that age.
>Renewable Energy use
kek
>Scientific Literacy
Literacy tests are wacist.

>>1942430
Yes, because most Americans saw those two for what they were, equally bad choices with neither looking out for their interests. The "incredible divisiveness" was played out entirely by the party establishments and the media, which most Americans have grown incredibly disillusioned with over the past decade and a half.

>>1942432
Wouldn't have worked IMO.

Notice how calling Trump RACIST! didn't work after they've called Obama's opponents that same thing when they really weren't. People were calling Obama a COMMIE! when he was running; these base insults have just lost power

>>1942048
>the county

>>1942443
>kek
ok.

>>1942442
>surely americans can't be that retarded.
No, just him.

Most people who were exposed to Bernie Sanders were extremely receptive of him. His point is basically along the lines of "every other developed nation in the world has single payer and pays far less for health care than why don't we consider this kind of system?" and all conservatives can do is whine about "muh invisible hand" and other vacuous, ideological arguments that most people rejected when they picked Donald Trump in the Republican primaries, despite repeated hammering from the establishment about how he "wasn't a true conservative", Americans just don't care about that shit any more.

>>1941915
Since time is cyclical, the period following the 2016 elections.

>>1942443
>How do you even measure that?
democratic participation, or an evaluation of how policy reflects local sentiment. Could also reflect level of representation (as in each representative represents a smaller number of people and there are more representatives as a result, resulting in a more democratic structure, closer to direct democracy).

>If there's no money or power, of course. My Church's Coffee Hour is corruption free too.
So Swede, Iceland, Netherlands has no money right?
>How is this a measure of anything? My 19mo son doesn't have a phone, and he shouldn't at that age.
Kek
>kek
lol
>Literacy tests are wacist.
Still all your programmers and reserchers come from other countries

>>1942435
>Cost of living in the rust belt is very low.
Compared to the rest of the country sure. But working at/slightly above the minimum wage still isn't enough for more than a meager life there. Workers in past didn't give much of a shit about high wages because of the benefits they got, and those are fucking gone for good too.

>>1942465
>american people are waking up.
well, what a time to be alive.

>>1942465
>No, just him.
1) not American
2) would've supported Bernie
so I'm not too sure what you're arguing against.

It's just my perception that the level of opposition to Obamacare purely on the basis of muh gommunism rather than any cogent economic arguments suggests a lot of americans still have a hang-up about even vaguely socialist policies.

>>1942307
>half of them don't know even what is his real program
No one knows his real program (platform?). Half the shit he promised he changed his mind on the same day, the other half has literally no substance to it. He won swing states because he told the rust-belt workers that he was going to make sure their jobs stayed put (somehow) and that he was going to bring all the other jobs back (somehow), while Killery never bothered making direct promises to anyone because she assumed the voters couldn't be bought.

>>1942440
They'd be thanking their corporate masters of course.

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>>1942269
>Smallest Prison Population
>#1 India
Since they let most of the rapists roam free, maybe yeah.

>>1942478
>so I'm not too sure what you're arguing against.
Most Americans aren't retarded. Remember that Hillary won the popular vote, but got fucked in the electoral college mostly because of midwestern baby boomers in rural counties.

>Obamacare
Because Obamacare is basically a state-sanctioned monopoly. People don't like it because it's not living up to its promises and insurance companies are still getting away with gouging people. Only the loud, obnoxious Americans are ideologues. Most of us care about one thing: does this work?

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>>1941931
You mean when 90% of the jobs were unionized, and the communist party was actually on the ballot? When anti-monopoly laws were regularly enforced and the top tax bracket was nearly 90%? When the democrats held a majority in government and the vast majority of governorships? When university level education in California and several other states was free?

Yeah, the 50's were great, if you're a commie.

>>1942278
They also have a fraction of America's GDP and most get a nice fat subsidy for doing it. Fucking Bulgaria and Romania have higher speeds.

>>1941915
1776-1913

>>1942480
Well he's going to restore coal jobs and repeal obamacare.

Those are the only to things I'm pretty sure he will do. Everything else is a mystery.

Although I'm not sure if coal will be restored, if energy companies aren't confident they'll still be able to use coal in another 4 years. If anything this is a 4 year extension to the remaining coal jobs. And Obamacare probably won't be replaced either. I'm not sure what the voter demographics are but this could get huge backlack and create market instability.

Hillary's appeal for retraining to an information based economy might be tone deaf, but if you want high standards of living, it's the only solution. You could install tariffs and protectionism, but then you lose taking advantage of comparative advantages and the economy overall suffers for it, because you're basically just paying welfare to blue collar workers to do blue collar jobs that could have otherwise been done much cheaper if you just had foreign blue collars do it.

>>1942488
>Most Americans aren't retarded. Remember that Hillary won the popular vote, but got fucked in the electoral college mostly because of midwestern baby boomers in rural counties.
No, but take out the smart Trumpets, throw in any dumb Hillary supporters and it's still close enough to 50% to be troubling.
Having said that, I'm a Brit, so I'm throwing stones from a glass house here.

>Because Obamacare is basically a state-sanctioned monopoly. People don't like it because it's not living up to its promises and insurance companies are still getting away with gouging people.
That seems like a cogent argument, which isn't what I was complaining about. Most of the vocal opposition to Obamacare I've heard comes from an ideological opposition to free-at-the-point-of-use healthcare, or any move in that direction.
We have the opposite problem in the UK, the NHS is such a sacred cow that you can't make an argument for further private sector inclusion (a la most European healthcare systems, which are generally better than ours) without people mistaking it as an argument for whatever they think privatisation means (i.e., not what it actually means).

>>1942511
Coal isn't suffering because of Obama, coal is suffering because of an excess of natural gas. It's doomed for the foreseeable future.

Repealing Obamacare is about the only promise he made that, thanks to the Republican majority, he might be able to keep. I don't think the Democrats are going to be the obstructionist party that the Republicans were, as there's a lotta conservatives among them (which is the reason Obamacare ended up being a re-write of a Republican plan to begin with), and organizing Democrats in general tends to be akin to herding cats.

Rigging up a committee to replace it with something suitable is going to be a nightmare though.

>>1942511
>because you're basically just paying welfare to blue collar workers to do blue collar jobs that could have otherwise been done much cheaper if you just had foreign blue collars do it
Bingo, it's gibmedats for right-wingers.
Daily reminder that if the government has to subsidise your job because it can actually be done much cheaper by somebody in another country, that's only superficially different to social security.

>>1942161
>Implying the Democrats have any leg to stand of where spending is concerned

>>1942519
>Coal isn't suffering because of Obama, coal is suffering because of an excess of natural gas. It's doomed for the foreseeable future.
this.
t, petroleum engineer.

>>1942523
At least Hillary managed to shit out a semi-detailed plan, regardless of how effective it would have been.

>>1942520
I don't think it's particularly reasonable to expect a country with unionized labor and decent working conditions to have to compete with one that doesn't.

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>>1942514
>No, but take out the smart Trumpets, throw in any dumb Hillary supporters and it's still close enough to 50% to be troubling.
Keep in mind that the DNC basically handed Clinton the nomination on a silver platter. The leaked emails basically confirmed that the entire party was in the bag for Clinton and guys like Jim Webb weren't even given a real chance.
Meanwhile, despite every attempt of the DNC to sabotage Bernie, everywhere he went, crowds larger than Trump's showed up.

Heck, Joe Biden is extremely well liked and would have crushed Donald Trump, but we know now the reason why he chose not to run: because of how far in the bag Hillary Clinton was for the entire DNC.

>Having said that, I'm a Brit, so I'm throwing stones from a glass house here.
Hey now, at least neither of us has the option of thumbing our nose at the other. The inmates have taken over the asylum on both sides of the Atlantic

>>1942312
That's why trump got 20% of the Hispanic vote? He did way better than Romney ever did

>>1942527
Hillary, for all her flaws, was an experienced pragmatist who, unlike Sanders and Trump, was fairly realistic in the promises she made.

But, at this point, if she was up against a candidate who promised to burn the nation to the ground and start over, that candidate would have won.

Trump won over Hillery for the same reason Obama did - he promised change. Hillary can really only promise more of the same.

>>1942531
Why was the DNC so obsessed with Clinton?

>>1942531
>Hey now, at least neither of us has the option of thumbing our nose at the other. The inmates have taken over the asylum on both sides of the Atlantic
it's as if memes have finally become real.

>>1942519
Yeah, I kind of walked back what I meant by "restoring" coal in the post. He's just giving coal a little bit longer before it gets snuffed out. I did know that coal is on it's way out. It bothers me because we finally got a somewhat favorable climate change deal with China.

Also I don't mind too much if Obamacare gets repealed if in 4 years it means it gets replaced by something that isn't a hodgepodge because people suddenly realize they actually want good health care. Obamacare needs fixing.

I have serious doubts they're going to replace it, they're just going to defund it.

>>1942536
Because she had her hands in the pockets of every major financial contributor to the party, so supporting her meant a bigger paycheck for them.

>>1942523
Doesn't change the fact that
(current state $)
subtract ($ for military)
subtract ($ for state-subsidised coal jobs for crybabies)
subtract ($ to reduce debt)
subtract ($ to reduce top-rate income tax (inb4 should be plus))
subtract ($ for a whole bunch of other non-fiscal-multiplier shit)
= (less $ than we currently have)

>>1942533
He only did well with Cubans, because they hate the government of their homeland and every republican candidate said they'd walk back on the relations Obama has been trying to build up.

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>>1941941
>>1941951
>WW
>Anything but a shill

>>1942542
>Not talking about how Trump wants to cut spending, such as a freeze on none critical government jobs

>>1942536
For the same reason the Republicans slaughtered Ron Paul back on '08. Sanders wasn't really a democrat. Additionally to only having become one recently, he was far too socialist for their tastes. Hillary, on the other hand, was pretty much the de facto face of the modern establishment Democratic party.

Also, while Hillary has a boatload of skeletons in her closet - she's also knows exactly where everyone else's skeletons are.

>>1942539
>I have serious doubts they're going to replace it, they're just going to defund it.
That'd be the worst case scenario.

Obamacare sucks, but at least it opened the door for real change. Be a shame to waste the opportunity, but sadly, you're probably right.

>>1942553
>Not knowing that this is how most federal departments have already been operating for the past several years

>>1942530
this. /His/ thinks Marx is a economist, so don't take them to seriously.

>>1942557
I still can't fathom it. She was a candidate with no appeal, except, perhaps among the feminist crowd (who I'd wager even the sensible among weren't into). Are they completely out of touch with their voters?

>>1942564
then how exactly is trump going to bring back union jobs for manufacturing if they are already being made in china for far cheaper?

>>1941915
1865-1945
With a few exceptions in between.

>>1942536
Celebrity status, name recognition, money making prowess, advances an SJW agenda. As this anon >>1942540
adds, there was almost certainly corruption involved.

>>1942557
At this point I would basically put money on it that the GOP got away with doing to Ron Paul what the DNC was caught doing to Bernie.

>Also, while Hillary has a boatload of skeletons in her closet - she's also knows exactly where everyone else's skeletons are.
The most frustrating part of this election cycle was that for every flaw you could point out about Donald Trump, a Trumpist could point out a similar one about the Clintons, from money scandals to the sheer poonhoundery of Bill Clinton. This would not have happened if it had been Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders on the ticket.

>>1942566
>feminist crowd
they were all behind sanders.

>>1942564
Well, Marx was an economist. He might not have been a good one (I actually don't know enough to say) but that doesn't change the fact he was an economist.

>>1942527
her "plan" was to basically continue to print money with zero cuts to spending. Trump may cut spending. Ill take a maybe over a no.

>>1942566
She had the most pull with financial backers. And looking at all the republican candidates at the time, they were (and still are) a complete joke, so they assumed they would be "safe" with her as a "vote against the other guy" candidate. Hillary could have won the swing states, and thus the election, if she wasn't an idiot who wrote off the rust-belt states as sure-wins weeks before the election.

>>1942573
"Karl Marx was a philosopher, economist, sociologist, journalist, and revolutionary socialist."
so he basically was a nobody that's been deified and now has a bunch of meaningless titles attached to his name.

>>1942569
Some form of trade protectionism I'd wager. How did the US possess those unionized manufacturing jobs in the first place?

>>1942582
because the PRC wasn't so business friendly then?
Or because automation wasn't a thing then?

>>1942580
He was an intellectual. Regardless of whether you think he was good at it or not, doesn't change the fact he did engage in philosophy (derived from Hegel), economics (derived from Ricardo IIRC), and sociology (I think he might have actually been a pioneer in this field). Meaning he was indeed a philosopher, economist, and sociologist.

Calling him a nobody is a bit flippant as well, because he was highly influential.

>>1941931
True, the 50's were pretty good.

>GI Bill lets millions of young men go to college
>fruits of the New Deal allow millions of people to live healthy lives
>Social Security in place now protects the elderly from the fall out of economic collapses

Fast forward to 2016, and the capitalists are trying their hardest to destroy any kind of program that doesn't line their pockets. Sad!

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>>1942269
>shorter life expectancy than bosnia
I don't have a reaction image for such a kek.

>>1942584
>because the PRC wasn't so business friendly then?

That's probably where the protectionism would come in then.

>Or because automation wasn't a thing then?

Automation is mostly used as a way to strip workers of bargaining power, it isn't vital to industry.

>>1942553
Except that's what the government has been doing for a while now. That's not going to do anything meaningful to lower the deficit.

>>1942591
this is what happens when you kill everyone anon.
since there are no people left to kill, everyone can live long and prosperous lives.

>>1942594
>protectionism
and how would people consume stuff if their prices went up?

>>1942566
If Bernie had won, it woulda been a loss for them. Even his SCOTUS appointments woulda been *too* liberal in their eyes, and they would have ended up fighting all his radical ideas, splitting the party in the process, all while making them look pretty bad.

Again, same reason the Republicans put their foot down on Ron Paul so hard - he wasn't representing their policy.

I am surprised, however, the Republicans didn't deny Trump's entrance into that first debate, in much the same way they tried to do with Ron Paul. That woulda nipped him in the bud right there, as for a good portion of the party, Trump doesn't represent Republican desires either. I guess they were just overconfident in the ability of the media to make him look like a fool, and didn't realize he was coated with teflon. On the other hand, while that's true of their establishment, it is not true of their voter base, which is much more radical than the core Democrat voter base. (Largely thanks to demagogues like Rush, and ironically, Glenn Beck.)

>>1942601
The same as before, just less of it. We'd probably be back to pre-Reaganomics economy, hopefully this time learning the lessons of the 1970s.

>>1942603
>the media thought trump would be tarred and feathered.
>little did they know he had coated himself with a metric ton of lube.

>>1942606
how exactly will that happen with automation around the corner?

>>1942610
Automation has been "around the corner" forever. It is, as I said, unnecessary to industry. You can produce plenty of goods relying on a predominantly human work force.

>>1942586
in his life time he was a nobody who's wife took care of him with her dads Gibs.

>>1942611
but it will be far cheaper to use machinery instead of people, especially in terms of health insurance and the like.

>>1942613
That's fair. but so were plenty of other philosophers who wound rather influential (the nobody part, the specifics beyond that vary). Spinoza and Nietzsche weren't particularly successful in their lifetimes either, as examples.

>>1942491
good post

>>1942610
Need I remind you that we doubled the size of the workforce in the 70's, all while automating more jobs than ever, and the unemployment rate actually went down?

Automation is a meme. We always find shit for people to do. Mass unemployment only happens as a result of a lack of spare cash flow and outsourcing for cheaper labor. For every machine that replaces a job, five more jobs show up somewhere else.

>>1942613
So was Vincent Van Gogh, Ernest Hemingway, and F. Scott Fitzgerald.

>>1942588
>>fruits of the New Deal allow millions of people to live healthy lives
LOL no the new deal had zero to do with the success of the 50's.
During the 50's the government basically reversed much of the new deal and reduced taxes and government spending. That along with being the only nation still standing caused the boom of the 50's.

>>1942616
Perhaps, but our industry already wastes money all over the place with lavish payments to CEOs and shareholders. There's no reason that a unionized industry focused primarily on paying human workers couldn't fill the same niche.

We're also at the point where Moore's law isn't really a thing; chip features have grown so small that quantum uncertainty renders further miniaturization impossible: we're not going to get much more automated, unless a suitable replacement (quantum computing is limited in applications, and the one that focuses on emulating the structures of the brain hasn't proven promising yet) comes along.

>>1942626
After the %800 increase in government spending and mandatory jobs program that was World War 2

>>1942595
>not hiring people to be career bureaucrats who don't really do much won't help the government spend less.
>Cutting useless regulations that require bureaucrats to enforce at gun point won't reduce spending

what mental gymnastics does someone have to do to think this?

>>1942629
>thinking the new deal's price controls helped
kek

>>1942629
yep and during ww2 we had rationing. Doesn't sound like real economic growth.
Ya and we didn't have jobs programs when they got back like the Dems wanted.
Thank goodness that fuck FDR kicked the bucket near the end of the war or the depression probably would have continued.

>>1942491
Yup that sounds pretty gr8 m8

>>1942575
>trump may cut spending

Lmao he wants massive military and infrastructure spending

>>1942637
not him, I'm saying that the New Deal had mixed results because it didn't go nearly far enough in terms of the downward transfer of wealth and capital. It was the massive burst in government spending and the command economy created for the war that spurred the largest middle class that history had ever seen.

>>1942642
>Thank goodness that fuck FDR kicked the bucket near the end of the war or the depression probably would have continued.
The depression ended in 1939. FDR died in 1945. Your grasp of history is extremely tenuous

>>1942642
Economic growth comes from the production of capital to increase productivity. WWII established lots of industry, and forced resources towards industry.

>>1941915
Before obama

>>1942603
>On the other hand, while that's true of their establishment, it is not true of their voter base, which is much more radical than the core Democrat voter base. (Largely thanks to demagogues like Rush, and ironically, Glenn Beck.)
Looks like the spooks they were making came and bit them in the ass.

>>1942633
>if I save a nickel on every dollar I spend, eventually it'll reduce my debt

>not him, I'm saying that the New Deal had mixed results because it didn't go nearly far enough in terms of the downward transfer of wealth and capital. It was the massive burst in government spending and the command economy created for the war that spurred the largest middle class that history had ever seen.

Creating millions of munitions does not cause growth where it effects average people. How did building tanks help the middle class?
I'm sure you're argument will be "well it put them to work so they got paid!" Well if being paid is what generates growth then helicopter money would work (it doesn't)

You seem to think a command economy works, i'm curious, how much of the economy do you think the government should control?

>The depression ended in 1939. FDR died in 1945. Your grasp of history is extremely tenuous

Mines not, but yours seems to be. In 1939 we weren't at war yet, so how did WW2 get us out of the depression if you're saying we were already out of it by the time war started?

>>1942668
is that a attempt at an argument? I couldn't tell.

>>1942588
>True, the 50's were pretty good.
Nuclear apocalypse good

>>1942685
>Mines not, but yours seems to be. In 1939 we weren't at war yet, so how did WW2 get us out of the depression if you're saying we were already out of it by the time war started?

Not that guy, but I'm pretty sure the US started preparing for war well before actually getting involved in the war, and was quite active in supplying the others players in the war.

>>1942685
>>1942730
This, lend-lease program.
The Soviets got a good boost in weaponry from America for a while, taking a lot of the industrial strain off of the USSR while they relocated many of their factories to beyond the Ural Mountains, to protect them from Nazi bombing raids.

>>1942048

This shit is why you lost the election.

>>1942235

Because he's a commie-cuck that promised free weed and college and the younger generation are too spoiled, uneducated and sheltered to understand why that's bad.

>>1941915
Before Europe colonized America.

>>1942685
While the New Deal increased demand for goods and services through relief programs and infrastructure purchases, these outlays paled in comparison to the massive increase in government-generated demand brought on by preparation and entry into World War II. Between 1940 and 1942, when the U.S. entered World War II, government purchases nearly quadrupled, which added significant demand to the economy,

In February of 1941, a full percent of American labor was employed building military materials in preparation for a potential war; this only increased once the U.S. actually entered the war. This massive spending put money in people's pockets from the government that could then generate demand and revive the economy

World War II introduced new sectors to the economy that previously did not exist. The creation of the aerospace industry, which was quite small before the war, is a prime example. In 1940, for example, the military had 28 airfields, but by the end of World War II, it had over 1,000. This created opportunities for the aerospace industry to boom and employ people, thereby recovering the economy.

>>1942760
Free college is a good thing if it's for degrees for economically viable industries. Skilled workers are worth more than unskilled workers.

>>1941915
Up until Kennedy got blammo'd.

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>>1942263

>Because the youth in america seems smarter than everybody in that shit hole

This is how you spot the retard.

The American Youth is about the dumbest it's ever been.

Or do you honestly believe Safe-Spaces, twerking and SJW clickbait are the signs of a developed intellect?

Do you really look at people like this and go "Yes, these people have thought about the economic consequences of what they vote for. This is an educated demographic"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j556MWGVVqI&list=PL5p1p63m0oodT3EnSuW_9Z8zhmN2J4-3J&index=7

>>1942760
I know you are trolling but legalizing weed and then providing it as a medical drug is not free weed.
If anything, weed would eventually be like beer, not a direct medication but can be used in doses to help some people with depression or other issues.

>>1942263

>that saw american capitalism for what it is in reality

The strongest, most profitable, most successful economic system in the world?

>>1942773
>The American Youth is about the dumbest it's ever been.

Prove it. With actual data..

>>1942275

>DUDE ONLY BABY-BOOMERS ARE REPUBLICANS LMAO

You're delusional.

>>1942782

They voted for an aging Leftist cuck that wanted to turn America into Venezuela.

>>1942768

>Free college is a good thing if it's for degrees for economically viable industries.

Not when your income is siphoned-off to pay for it.

>>1941915

Before about 1920 when the Jews took over

>>1942776
>Alcohol
>Medication
God I've never wanted prohibition back so badly

>>1942786
So, you don't have any proof then.

>>1942792
Taxation is going to happen regardless.

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ITT a bunch of salty commies that are worried Trump's going to take away your government dosh that you get for your "Social Anxiety" diagnosis.

If you love socialism so much and want to see it in America, move to California.

>>1942786
>they disagreed with me so they are bad
Is this American politics?
Is this world politics?
Are we fucked as a species?
>>1942792
I would do it desu. Investing into our future is a good plan in general, and our future generations are literally the lifeblood of our future.

>>1942776

>I'm depressed, the government should pay for me to get Ganja.

Truly it would be a Utopia.

>>1942802
That image is stupid. He wasn't saying it doesn't make economic sense. Education should be viewed as a public investment, because an educated populace is better for society.

>>1942792
You mean like taking out a student loan?

>>1942783
>You're delusional.
Look at the electoral map. The reason Trump won was because he carried the votes of midwestern whites over 60 in rural counties of swing states. Hillary still won the popular vote even despite the fact that she was such a weak candidate and carried almost 10 million fewer votes than the far more liked Barack Obama.

>>1942804

>I would do it desu.

What's stopping you?
Nobody's preventing you from paying into college scholarship programs with your income voluntarily.

Put your money where your mouth is, faggot.

>>1942798
Not actual medication dummy, it can be incorporated as a lifestyle choice to alleviate stress and depression, but it isn't sold to you as a fucking prescription. You just have to have moderation and self control.
>>1942805
Refer to above.

>>1942807

>N-N-No guys, really, he knew what he was talking about... You just didn't interpret it right!!!

Yes, I'm sure Bernie "Whites can't be poor" Sanders totally understands economics.He just pretends not to.

>>1942792
Why? I'd rather my income be siphoned off for education than subsidized corn and bloated military spending.

>>1942816
>Yes, I'm sure Bernie "Whites can't be poor" Sanders totally understands economics.He just pretends not to.

Where did he say anything to the effect? Also you didn't pay any attention to the guy's rhetoric did you? He didn't say anything about whether high interest on a student loan was sound business or not, just that it doesn't make sense. He did not specify on what grounds it doesn't make sense.

>>1942811
I do, it is called federal and state taxes which translate into federal and state scholarships. Since their implementation, many more people to whom it was economically nonviable to go to college can now go there for little to no cost. But it has not helped everyone, so an expansion upon that would increase the amount of people with college degrees, which enriches the economy.

All of that besides, one person paying slightly more taxes will not suddenly free up the fed's wallet to spend more on education while we are building tanks the military doesn't need more of while our Airforce has outdated planes because I guess Republicans are dumb, it has to be a nation or statewide implementation of a tax increase.

>>1942822
>Talking shit about corn.

That shit was what saved Julius Caesar's Gallic campaign, ya know.

>>1942822
What? You don't like having your money siphoned off to uneducated unproductive hick welfare queens, arming them and paying them to sit around and do nothing all day while they encourage Mexicans to immigrate to work the fields?

You think that money should go to educate people and possibly make them productive members of society?

What kind of cuck are you?

>>1942811
Nothing is stopping him from voting for it to be paid with taxes either. Welcome to democracy.

>>1941966
The only correct answer on this thread.

>>1942383
this

>>1942813
No it's fucking stupid to use any substance like that to treat a temporary feeling, that's exactly how you turn an entire country into Russia

>>1942854
>thats exactly how u turn an entire country into russia?

Dude do you live in your moms basement? People have been drinking alcohol since the agricultural revolution. Russia has had a culture where nearly everyone was a slave until a lil over 100 years ago. Why do u think they have such a shit culture?

>>1941931
>unionized pre neoliberal murrica
>butt blasted commushits
Are you retarded?

>>1942419
>and the democrats throttled it so that they could get a president with tits.
It's much worse than that
Democrats didn't want a president with tits ( other than the useful idiots )
Hillary in all likelihood was using connections and strongarming everyone into making her the democratic candidate. She's been building up for this presidency her whole life there is no way she wasn't getting vicious about it just to be absolutely sure.

Ironically enough even the best plans fall apart when faced with reality. Lucky for us. I don't see why people even think voting for LITERAL political families is a good idea. I thought Americans hating facists, monarchies, and aristocracy.

>>1942197
>guise i'm a librul but i hate social justice!!!!1!!

Trump's rise proves more than anything that white racism is still very much alive and kicking, popularly and systematically. It needs discussion, the fact that it makes you uncomfortable to acknowledge you possess certain unearned social prestige just because you're white doesn't make it untrue. You talk all the time about the "white man" being criticized, yet Trump ran almost purely on a platform of "fuck the mexicans, fuck muslims, fuck the chinese" and won, despite being a politically illiterate reality TV star.

>>1941922
Fantastic post.

>>1942689
>Nuclear apocalypse good
Soooo is like MAD no longer a thing because the USSR's nukes are now controlled by the Russian Federation?

Retards need to stop posting.

>>1942963
More people voted for Romney who lost in 2012 than who voted for Trump, who won. 10 million fewer people voted in 2016 than voted in 2012.

All this election proves is that Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate and the DNC sorely miscalculated when they muscled her into the nomination

>>1942689
Nucelar apocalypse didn't happen though?

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>>1942963
Is there a bigger liberal buzzword than "discussion"?

>>1942822
>>1942832
military spending isn't actually that bloated when compared to things like social security and healthcare.

>uneducated unproductive hick welfare queens

heh ok

>>1942897
So we encourage those same behaviors? Great idea

>>1942997
"Having a national conversation".

>>1943027
"national conversation about gun violence"

>>1943031
*about rape culture

>>1942989
Being an oldfag, I have to say, I actually prefered living under the daily threat of nuclear annihilation and being up against a worthy super power, to this pansy ass age of picking on exploding bearded folks who live in caves.

The fucking Russians drove us to land on the moon. Meanwhile, all the "they hate our freedom" guys are driving us towards is tearing up those same freedoms.

>>1942963
if muh white racism™ is so strong why did he lose the popular vote?

it's not like all white people voted for him in lockstep just because he was white (black people did this for obama just because he was black tho)

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>>1943036
Back then we picked on bearded guys in caves too.
The only good thing was that more people weren't so willing to put up with obnoxious leftie college kids.

>>1943044
>obnoxious leftie college kids.
nigger wtf are you talking about leftists kids were constantly inciting race riots in the 60s they put modern day sjws who protest by making a YouTube video to shame

the world almost imploded in '68 thanks to leftist kids

>>1943044
>US pulls out of Vietnam
>US only pulls out of Iraq and Afghanistan once they're pretty sure they've skullfucked everything
>South Vietnam collapses
>Iraq and Afghanistan still have the governments the US established there

>>1943048
That's sorta why more people weren't willing to put up with them?
Seriously, there was a large portion of the American public who had zero sympathy for the Kent State shootings, and the government crackdown on the riots in the 60's pretty much stopped radical leftism from being a thing in the US by the late 70's.

>>1943056
*victims of Kent State

>>1942768
University isn't a job training center. Fuck off with this mentality.

>>1943054
makes ya think

>>1941927
Such this

>>1941915

before the big bang

>>1941915
1950s and earlier.

>>1943119
It is in a service economy. It's not 1936. Graduating with a degree in literature does not mean you belong to the intellectual elite that will end up with a job in the foreign service of ths state department.

>>1943205
if you want a job go to a trade school, University is for the rich that don't have to worry about """""jobs""""". fucking poorfags get out of my Universities.

>>1943219
If you want poorfags out of your universities, you should be against any government subsidies for education.

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>>1941998

>>1941931
the 50's were great if you were white and male.
I know I'm posting on 4chan, and I'm not trolling, so shit on me all you want, but this country is changing demographically. The 1950's 'Leave it To Beaver' ideal is something that will no longer represent the ideological future of this country. Donald Trump's election is simply a last stand by those who used to constitute 'The Country' but who are quickly becoming the minority.

>>1943223
no you retard, change the culture that a degree=job and encourage people to go to trade school and learn a hard skill. There will always be a market for HVAC specialists.

>>1943238
>There will always be a market for HVAC specialists.
not when you start telling everyone to go to trade school instead of college

then entry level wages for HVAC drop to minimum wage

>>1943244
well trump is president so hopefully he'll deport people and wages won't go down that much
but you realize that HVAC isn't the only skill trade school teaches right?

>>1943235
It's mostly caused by rich people dodging taxes and lobbying for policies that give them more money.

You can track the American middle class being slowly driven out of existence from the 70s onward as the tax legislation slowly tips more and more for the rich, and the unions get crushed in the name of corporate profits.

>inb4 libtard

>>1942117
>From a communist standpoint the US was much better under a free market, with private healthcare systems, significantly lower federal taxes, enforced social class and racial segregation, and strong nationalistic sensibilities among the populace
Lmao

>>1942197
Except that Bernie was even worse than Hillary at getting blacks and Hispanics to vote for him. Whatever he might have picked up in independents/people who didn't vote, he would have lost in minorities not voting/voting for Trump (who won a bigger portion of said vote, especially among Hispanics, than any Republican in recent history). Then there's the fact that you only feel safe in saying this because Bernie never had to run against Trump. Everyone thought Clinton was going to win too. Clinton thought Clinton was going to win, right up until election night, when suddenly Trump magicked votes out of thin air, and all Clinton's necromancy couldn't conjure up enough dead people to stem the flood of red. Just like with Brexit, predictions meant absolutely nothing. Your next argument will be "But Sanders is an outsider just like the other surprise winners!" Well, I've been paying attention to the rise of the outsiders in western politics, and they've been right-wing nationalists across the board.

Trump clawed his way to the candidacy, and then the presidency, despite everyone else, from the media, to the GOP, to the DNP, to anyone who didn't support him, dog-piling him the entire way. Bernie didn't.

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>>1941915
It was always great

>>1943235
The illegals are getting deported, the wall's going up, muslims are being denied entry, Gen Z are more conservative than Boomers, affirmative action is on its last leg, and welfare will follow it. You're right that the country's changing, just not in your favor.

Stay salty.

>>1943275
The big argument is that most of the things Trump could have accused Clinton of wouldn't have applied to Sanders

>you're an establishment shill

lolno

>you're bad for the working class

here are my plans to unfuck the working class

>b-b-but muh communism

this isn't 1958

I could see Bernie winning a lot of the disaffected voters who supported Trump.

The Trump core may be very enthusiastic, but they aren't why he won.

1860-1920

Been declining for nearly 100 years

>>1942432
Wouldn't have worked because the Rust Belt has a strong Labor/Socialist tradition.

>>1943275
Bernie closed a 60 point gap in a month and his polling numbers were rising by the day, had the primaries gone on one more month, he would have won.

Currently he is the most popular politician in the with polling in the US across Republicans, Independents and Democrats.

I honestly believe minority groups would have showed for Bernie, he had more support from major relevant black figures to modern day youth. Another thing is his campaign focused on the Rust Belt. All those disenfranchised Trump voters, would have had a democrat literally fighting for factory jobs for them all and to return to the New Deal.

Sanders would have won. Trump's campaign would not have worked as well, because Sanders is the one that can position himself as the champion of the working class far more easily and has far more history doing that.

>>1943310
do you really think Sanders would have not only won against Trump, but converted a lot portion of his supporters, when many in Trump's camp associates socialism with a satanic plot to eradicate Christianity?

m8...

>>1943326
Brah, the conventional GOP base doesn't dominate any more.

Do you think Orthodox, Rush Limbaugh GOP voters would have let Trump through the primaries?

Hillary was outmaneuvered on the left wing, not the right.

>>1943326
it's not about converting trump supportees, Democrats didn't need those. they needed their own party to turn up at the booth, and they didn't show because nobody likes hilary. they would have showed up for bernie.

I wonder if we'll be looking at a Warren-Sanders ticket in 2020. Warren gets the women glass ceiling voters, the anti Wall Street progressives, and doesn't have to worry about being too old. The Pocahontas shit isn't sticking very well. Sanders is VP because of his age so people don't have to worry about him being too old, but he will carry some of his old voters, especially the disgruntled voters that are now calling him a sell out, after they realize they elected Trump and this is why Sanders sold out. And his campaigning will be a lot more effective than literal who Kaine. He will round out Warren who is a bit more one dimensional.The primary debates are going to just be a showcase of how well they compliment each other, rather than a case of the president being outshined by the second fiddle. It's a win-win compromise ticket. Warren has the woman appeal and is younger. Sanders can carry his momentum without criticisms of being too old grandpa. Both are on the same page about policy, and would serve as a strong foil to a Trump administration seeking election, especially if Trump fails to fulfill his promises to working Americans.

>>1943384
>lose against donald fucking trump by trying the muh vagina vote
>let's try again

>>1943384
Webb-Sanders.

You can't prove me wrong.

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>>1942491

>You mean when 90% of the jobs were unionized

Not even close, it's never been more than 35%

>>1943268
Healthcare is still private, taxation is not remotely communistic, and there was substantially less inequality after WW2.

The GI Bill oversaw what I believe is the greatest wealth redistribution in American history.

>>1943407
Sanders just seems like the ideal VP at this point if the primary winner doesn't mind being overshadowed sometimes. It solves Sander's age and socialist unelectability problems. He gets to make his case about it being a movement instead of about him. He would campaign fairly effectively, and add some authenticity to a ticket. The only reason not to pick him is so you can pick a literal who who doesn't outshine you or a minority,

>>1943456
Webb-Warren might work.

You've got alliteration, and Warren has a lot of anti-establishment credentials.

the ability to follow simple instructions was once a thing in america...not so much now.
i would like to see free maps at gas stations make a come back if for no other reason than americans could see that there were more places besides where they live.

>>1943469
>free iphones

>>1941941
Wilson, I would argue, was a terrible president. Most of his policies ended up blowing up in his face. Entering WW1 ensured the US would turn deeper to isolation. Wilson chased the golden city on a hill, but never thought about the consequences.

>>1942760
ah, the old hard working babby boomer generation.
Truly they knew what is good for america.

>>1943044
>obnoxious leftie college kids.
>what's the civil rights movement.

>>1941924
Disney got chutney

>>1943284
>muslims are being denied entry,
>he doesn't know.
Its incredibly hard for a muslim to get into America in the first place dumbass. All those persian diaspora shitposting on 4chan are fucking outliers.

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>>1943310
>Belt has a strong Labor/Socialist tradition.
Can you expand on this? I thought it was always a conservative stronghold?

>>1941931
1950s was when America was full "New Deal" economics and thus at its most communist.

u mad libertard?

>>1942689
we still have to do with nuclear apocalypse

>>1943729
Once upon a time, there were things called unions.

Those guys were the backbone of the Democratic Party.

And then of course, they were progressively smashed down into nothingness, as the Rust belt itself went from being an industrial powerhouse to a giant trailer park.

>all those people thinking Warren will want to be VP
I am going to repeat what I heard from (from before election year where they went full retard) but a senator with a strong domestic policy and stances will not likely give that up to be a glorified diplomat desu

>>1941941
enjoy your poverty and no alcohol

>>1943735
Oh where but where do the socialist part coming from though? I thought USA is very anti socialist even before the red scare

>>1943738
There was only one mention of Warren as VP. The other ticket with warren that was proposed was Sanders as VP, because Sanders is old and a socialist.

>>1943758
>country that had some of the most major labor strikes in the early 20th century world
>may day that became an international symbol.
>miners being killed by the state for protesting.

yeah, socialism really wasn't an american thing desu.

>>1943733
>we
are you Indian?

>>1943765
Oh my bad I misread. I seriously why she never wanted to run in the first place though, she would have rekt both Sanders and Clinton and then Trump. What a shame

>>1943780
if a nuclear apocalypse happens it's not like there will be people who survive

well I guess the Strayas will

>>1943781
Because she'd make an enemy out of the Dem party, and that seemed like a bad choice at the time. Sanders don't give a fuck because he was independent.

>>1943788
/k/ here.

If nukes start flying, hundreds of millions of people will die, but there'll still be an America.

Think Poland during WW2, they took 25% population losses and still continued to exist as a country. It'd be a lot like the good old Ostfront.

>>1943795
For opposing Clinton? Are they that hostile?

>>1943788
>dude nucular winter LMAO.

>colonial/revolutionary period
well that was an exciting period but the terrorists (natives) are next door to you and not on the other side of the world, any sickness will kill you off, and you have to be constantly in fear of being re-Britted

>Ante-Bellum/Civil war
no other period was as politically polarized, they broke into civil war

>Wild west period
play Organ Trail

>Gilded Age
nothing but corruption, shit in the streets, street urchins mugging you, little pay for life threatening work, no safety net for injury, sickness, and old age, and a horrible pollution everywhere. Libertarians want us to go back to this period

>roaring 20s
organized crime and no alcohol

>30s
poverty, organized crime, and no alcohol

>40s
War worth fighting for and GI bill and New Deal to jumpstart the economy actual period were things pick up

>50s
America was the only one with an economy left and still on the new Deal so they were prosperous. Still have an organized crime problem

>60s
pretty much like the 50s, there were hippies but they were a minority in areas of commiefornia

>70s
shit actually hits the fan, no one like the gov't anymore, drugs everywhere, economy tanked, no one liked each other, and disco was a thing

>80s and 90s
period were nothing really happened

>00s
like the 70s but whereas the 70s was the left's fault the 00s was the right's

>10
tried to get out of it, pretty much failed so far perhaps the reality show star will fix things.

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>>1943819
>>80s and 90s
>period were nothing really happened

>>1943918
in the irrelevant countries it did

but the worst in America is a scandal about blowjobs

>>1943943
>The fall of the soviet union and the rise of the religious right was totally irrelevant.

>>1943953
how did the religious right rise in America?

>>1943953
religious right was always a think in America

>>1943953
Fall of the soviet union was so anti-climatic that it's not really worth mentioning.

years later we still think Reagan was the one responsible for the fall.

>>1943962
Religion has always been a thing in America. The Religious Right wasn't a thing until Reagan.

Though for a long time, for the large part, it was considered irreligious to go into politics, and many of the protestant/baptist churches explicitly forbade it.

>>1943284
Well meme'd friend

>>1943961
Reagan pretty much married the Republican party with the evangelicals.

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>>1941915

1776-1865

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>>1943796
>If nukes start flying, hundreds of millions of people will die, but there'll still be an America.

You mean the Enclave?

>>1943796
Losing two or three major population centers, while painful, isn't fatal.

Losing ALL your major population centers, especially since you can't rebuild them for years or decades, depending on the sort of nuke used, is quite fatal.

...Especially since I'm not confident that the general corruption and internal anti-government efforts aren't so bad that we can even build proper infrastructure anymore.

>>1941915
1776-2008/2009

I would just like you guys to know that I am proud that we could have a civil discussion without shitflinging