How do we stop collectivism?

Socialism. I know you think I'm kidding but seriously read Oscar Wilde's Soul of Man Under Socialism.

We get rid of socialism.

>>1940014
Transhumanism

We have to get rid of human identity all together.

>>1940048
But isn't singularity collectivism?

By designing a system where the best actions an individual can take for himself is also naturally a very good outcome for the collective.
You solve the problems collectivism seeks to remedy while retaining individuality.

>>1940054
So socialism?

Individual interest literally does not exist because "individuals" do not exist.

>oy vey goyim remember collectivism is good
>oy vey goyim support the state of Israel and the interests of the jewish people
Sad!

>>1940066
We can probably do better.

>>1940077

Mass extinction of the human race is better than socialism.

>>1940092
Then propose an alternative that meets the same criteria.

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>>1940075
mmmh really makes you think!

>>1940014
>How do we stop collectivism?
>We

>>1940014
Once we find a way to form an economy with no externalities.

>>1940075
Individualism is as much a Jewish scheme as both internationalist collectivism and extreme individualism aims to undermine the ethnic-national cohesion that would otherwise prevent outsiders from exploitation.

>>1940041
Oscar Wilde also said socialism will never work unless there are robots doing all the undesirable jobs that no one else wants to do.

>>1940014

Introduce a little Anarchy

>>1940359
Are Jews just obsessed with systems and social engineering?

>>1940684
Soon.

>>1940014
You could start by making people take you seriously by not posting quotes of irrelevant shit-tier writers.

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>>1940075
>>1940125
>>1940359
>>1940699

>>1940014
A sense of responsibility for units larger than the individual is the absolute minimum requirement for not just civilization, but even ordinary interaction between human beings. Rand enjoyed the fruits of collectivist conventions every second she was alive.

>>1940749
Exactly.

>>1940181
kek

Collectivism is the natural state of man, i.e. tribe/Family. Individualism leads to depression and modern western culture.

>>1940014
We should band together against it.

>>1940049

Not at all

>>1940749
>le "you didn't build that" argument

>>1941477
That argument is probably the most redpilled thing Obama ever said.

Surprisingly class conscious for the leader of the free world.

>>1940014
tribalism is the natural state of man.
Rand could have gone to some lawless backwater or the Wallet City if she was so autistic about rejecting individual trade-offs for society to function.

>>1940014

Tangible forms of collectivism are fine. The problem is when collectivism is based upon an abstract concept like race, nationality, class, or humanity. Humans can only truly love actual human beings, not ideas.

>>1941420
You cheeky fucker

>>1941546

>abstract concept like race class or humanity

wat

>>1941553

Race, class, and humanity are abstractions. They don't exist in the phenomenal world. They are only concepts we use to organize experience.

>>1941571
So are "people"

>>1940014
>you should be an individual and stand on your own two feet, government is merely a collective attempting to control you
>but make sure you obey your boss, pay your ta- I mean rent and respect private property """rights"""

>>1940014
>caring about other people and participating in grand, nation-wide embarkments is 'subjugation' that 'chains' you
Fuck off you bitter cunt. Man is a social animal. We feel good from doing good to others and having good done to us, we've built wonders by trusting each other and distributing functions under a common cause.
Imagine if everyone was an edgy individualist faggot - we'd still be living in caves, getting killed by physically superior neanderthals

>>1941656
Individualism isn't at odds with interacting with others
see: stirner

>>1941660

Stirner's egoism is not individualistic, it's anti-foundational.

>>1941601

Not him, I assume what he meant in his definition of collectivism is freedom to define humanity as phenomena given his stance, therefore collectivist individualism and individualistic collectivism are described as an experience stripped from responsibility.

In my view this segmentation could lead to a contradiction of man not being responsible for himself within humanity, regarded as an abstraction of his own individuality; therefore an individual without responsibility would be devoid of the full extent of freedom, as responsible for all men.

This would therefore oppose the rational self-interest of objectivism.

I'd say freedom also holds an essential capacity to be free from definition therefore living as within ourselves as being in self, formless in substance within a position in formulating and individualistic intention of morality within a concpet of it's own cause as relative to its definition and existing in its own self as definable to being without virtue of conversion towards a larger universality.

>>1940181
OH THE IRONING

>>1940014
By digging a hole and crawling under it.
Seriously. We are a society, what did you expect?

>>1941961
>We are a society
What an empty argument. We are also individuals.

>>1941976
Yes. We are both. Therefore we cannot escape from neither collectivism nor individualism.
Seriously. We are a society, what did you expect?

>>1941984

>We are a society...

not if i capitalise on my individualism and become a multibillionare and develop a army of nanites that take me away to a desert island and keep me alive forrever in tremendous wealth while also keeping my eternal private property safe from collectivist scum were not

thats the point of ain rands story right?

Individualism for the goyim, collectivism for the jewish people and the state of Israel.

AND she died penniless, friendless, alone, and cashing social security cheques she hated so much

can't
Make
This
Shit
Up
!

>>1942012
Honestly, you could not have missed the point any harder.
I recommend you stop fapping for once and actually read through the books for once, as you would soon notice the real point of Randyan philosophy is for all of us (except for most of us) to become autistic gunslingers who toll their days with manual labors at hippie neo-liberal communes, as we all logically should, you consumerist pleb.

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>>1940014
Imho, Cheka was lenient enough to let her and her family alive.

>>1940711
>i don't like her therefore she's irrelevant
Child.

>>1941656
There's a difference between individualism and Objectivism.

>>1942035
No she didn't.

>>1940711
The worst part about Rand is that she's not irrelevant. She's been highly influential despite having less philosophical rigour than even fucking Molyneux.

perestroika

>>1940014
communism

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>>1940716
You say that, but as someone who was pretty liberal for a long time before finding /pol/, I find it disturbing how often I look into something I disagree with, only to find that a member of one of the smallest minorities in the world is balls deep in it. Conversely, very few of them tend to show up in things with which I agree.

Calling someone I disagree with a Jew is still a meme, but it's statistically more likely that they are than someone who agrees with me.

>>1943441
>minority has a high rate of education because muh holy book
>minority picked up a bunch of left wing politics because pogroms suck
>it's a conspiracy

Jews are part of the left wing, but treating them as the entire story is simply intellectual laziness.

>>1943452
jews are the intellectual heavyweights of humanity because of centuries of sexual selection for jobs that require high intelligence

>>1943479
And Shoahs where they end up killing all the stupid Jews while the smart Jews escape. It's like the thing about antibiotics and immunity. The white mad did this to himself.

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>>1943479
>everyone used to die unless they were an accountant for some reason

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>>1943500
>duh white man be keepin us down
>but we still had access to the most lucrative professions in society

>>1940014
Make it an exclusive entity that by nature cannot exploit its members

Globalized collectivism is bad. Private collectivism is good.

>>1943519
>blue eyes are so common in Finland because they killed people who didn't have them
Do you understand what sexual selection is?

Smart Jews doing well in his banking career had a lot of jewish children with a jewfu, dumb jews got absorbed and diluted into the general pop.

You don't get an average iq of 115 just by maintaining a culture of muh books.

>>1940014
How do we stop individualism?

>>1943616
You can kill independent thought,

Oh wait, you cant because every person starts with the ego and works their way to the social, not the other way around

>>1943626
I'm Asian and have the opposite intuition. Everyone starts with the collective and then works towards the individual.

>>1940181
what did she mean by this

>>1943519
It's true tho. Ashkenazi Jews were not allowed to marry if the man couldn't provide for the family. It's literally unnatural selection favoring people pursuing intellectual jobs. The genetic influence on this is debated tho.

>>1943661
That does seem really weird to me, so maybe it is cultural.

But from what I have seen there is not shortage of people in Asian society trying to make the collective serve themselves. The same is of course true in the west. There is just seems to be a higher level of social pressure to conform in Asia than in western countries.

>>1945692
Have you even read the Ego and It's Own?

>Not isolation or being alone, but society, is man’s original state. Our existence begins with the most intimate conjunction, as we are already living with our mother before we breathe; when we see the light of the world, we at once lie on a human being’s breast again, her love cradles us in the lap, leads us in the go-cart, and chains us to her person with a thousand ties. Society is our state of nature. And this is why, the more we learn to feel ourselves, the connection that was formerly most intimate becomes ever looser and the dissolution of the original society more unmistakable. To have once again for herself the child that once lay under her heart, the mother must fetch it from the street and from the midst of its playmates. The child prefers the intercourse that it enters into with its fellows to the society that it has not entered into, but only been born in.

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>>1940014
>how to we stop harmonious order
I doubt you fully understand co-dependent self origination, or cultivate the self through filial piety.

>>1940716

haha wait this is the emotional child's guide TO /pol/? are you admitting that your entire simplistic conception of /pol/ is just one big strawman?

By being NEET's who can't be integrated.

A job.