how bad was Caesar?

literally did nothing wrong

Willy was a pretty bad Caeser.

>>1939133
Not much. He was Dictator For Life for a mere 13 days

>>1939133
Caesar wanted to basically become the "King of Rome", not in title of course

>>1939133
>teaching your children to hate caesar instead of admiring him

America really does need to be made great again.

So, is Quebec the US equivalent of Gaul?

>>1939133
Trump would have dissolve the Senate using the US army to be equally bad.

>>1939181
>bad
congress has a 8% approval rating or something
he would be seen as a hero

Caesar-Moderatly left wing populist fighting for the people against the abuse of the rich. Genius, godlike speech giver and writer, benevolent, never killed anyone who deserved it. Pardoned all domestic enemies.
Trump-Far right populist fighting against government . Retard, constantly repeating bufoon. I am optimistic for Trump, but to compare him to Caesar is autistic

>>1939133
The morning after election night should just be designated national "tweeting made up quotations from children who are apparently scared of political candidates that no children actually care about" day.

>>1939181
Too bad Trump isn't King Radical

>>1939188
as was caesar

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>>1939153
You take that back right this instant

>>1939197
>Far right
he's a new york liberal
the only reason he's even seen as remotely right is that the democrat party sprinted to the left to try to match sweden

>>1939204
post the pasta /gsg/ lad.

>>1939207
Also wrong, the only reason he's considered far-right is because he touched the issue of immigration. You could be Bernie Sanders-tier left and call for immigration restrictions and be thought of as far-right in the current climate.

>>1939214
cesar chavez would be considered a far-right political icon right now
chew on that for a moment

>>1939210
Listen upp here old pal .... *sighs* twas an aeon ago it seems ... ehhh... the first wiggler rally in Luton... AHHH RELIEVE!!!! ... Me and my pals built our own old tree house *wally rises of memory* whatever we did we Always came back home from school to do a Little wally wiggling in the ol treehouse... Ahhh.... waggler they called me ... *nothing personell kiddo* but I just kept on waggling, day in and day out. I waggled for Charles, I waggled for Margaret Thatcher. I even at one Point waggled the willy to Ho Chi Minh.... Ahhhh... the memories of the hazy wiggle waggling summer of 1986.... I still remember the wiggle wally race we had in Surrey.... We would gather... Me, this bloke from Newcastle and some guy named Ian the clam... waggling our Willies in record speed..... AHHH RELIVE ..... CUM!!!!!!!!!!

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>>1939178
I know right its trash how someone teaches their kid that Caesar was terrible. Dude helped out the poor a lot, and was loved by them. Took very good care of his troops. Was only killed by some rich faggots cause they saw him as a threat to their own power. The public was very upset by his death. The murders had to run away because they were hated in Rome.

Caesar (pronounced like ki-sar in Latin) did a lot for Rome. After Marius and Sulla's civil war, he created the First Triumvirate. This stabilized Rome. Fast forward, Caesar is prosecuted by the Senate, so he marches on Rome. Senate and Pompey flee, civil war takes place, Caesar wins, comes back home, dictator for life, murdered. Civil war again. Caesar was a man of prowess, audacity, and cunning.

>>1939227
didn't caesar institute the first documented welfare policies by giving grain to poor or something?

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>>1939224
thanks.
also cheers from your sister general

>>1939178
You know, there was a local Republican running for the School Board on the platform of Make America Smart Again. Fairly sure she won, but not entirely.

>>1939233
Not sure, but I think grain was given to citizens of Rome in games before Caesar, I know for sure Augustus did that. On Augustus he got a lot of support at the start because he had the name Caesar which was popular among the army and lower class. Augustus would continue the programs his adopted farther started as they did a lot of good and were popular. Both drew support from the lower class of Rome and tried to pay attention to their needs.

>>1939197
>far right
what are you smoking

>>1939279
I wonder where he thinks people like ted cruz would be if trump is far-right

>>1939214
>You could be Bernie Sanders-tier left and call for immigration restrictions and be thought of as far-right in the current climate.
No, Obama has deported more illegals than any other president (literally millions), and immigration to America is already really restricted. It's because Trump makes fun of immigrants.

>>1939279
>guy says that he will deport all muslims and register them because they are all terrorists.
>not far right.
come on now.

>>1939284
>No, Obama has deported more illegals than any other president (literally millions)
>if we redefine what numbers means, we win!
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html

>>1939285
>guy says that he will deport all muslims
He literally never said that.

>>1939285
that's literally his only "right" policy barring abortion.

He's a liberal, hell he wants to take down obamacare just to instate a different form of socialized medicine. He supports LGBT way more than ANY republican would dare.

>>1939292
I would rather look at what trump does on a issue by issue basis tbph.
American Right and european right are completely different.

>>1939178
POMPEI
O
M
P
E
I

>>1939133

Caesar was a fucking hero so trump has a lot to live up to.

>Pardon domestic enemies leave them with some semblence of dignity intact even after a betrayal
>Conquer foreign enemies and demand subordination
>Listens and hires his people to listen to common-people's complaints and tries to address them within reason
>pisses off old-boys clubs full of rich out of touch faggots

If trump even manages to do one or two of those things he will be a hero as well. I would like to see hillary convicted then trump pardon her, would be alpha as fuck

>>1939178
>Murrica is all about democracy
>Some guy kills that in Rome.
No surprise Julius Caesar is seen as a bad guy.

>>1939322
he didn't kill democracy, he liberated it.

>>1939197
>Caesar
>Moderatly
>left wing
>populist
I want you to end yourself.

>>1939326
>Dictator For Life.
Sure negro.

>>1939322
>Murrica is all about democracy
Uh, no.

>>1939334
which is better than a facade of democracy

>>1939322
What is: A republic?

>>1939133
What sort of indoctrination teachs child about how much of a dick Caesar was?

>>1939227
This is basically how we were taught it in American public edumikation. Maybe the 8yo just saw some movie that said otherwise, as that's a bit young to have been taught much of anything on the subject around here.

Although a lot of Religious Right Americans tend to blame Caesar for killing Jesus - though this tends to be the same group that insists the Earth is flat, while navigating to their church groups on their cell phones.

>>1939361
>>Although a lot of Religious Right Americans tend to blame Caesar for killing Jesus
I have literally never heard this and I was raised catholic

>though this tends to be the same group that insists the Earth is flat,
lol us smart atheists, huh?

>>1939133
Which Caesar? Julius? Tiberius? Nero? Augustus? Edward Sallow?

>>1939383
Most people see Trump as the first coming of Edward Sallow desu. Mike Pence as the Malpais Legate? Sign me the fuck up.

>>1939373
Not him but my family did it, they were Protestant.

Funnily enough, I have gone on to love Rome and it's history.

>>1939373
>I have literally never heard this and I was raised catholic
Probably because we teach all mankind is to blame for killing Jesus along with acknowledging "Caesar" as a particular person's name is the same as "Pesident" in the same way. And no one thinks Taft and Carter are the same guy responsible for the same things

>>1939387
Ave Caesar!

>>1939394
>implying Caesar was a title before Julius Caesar

>>1939180
yes
please conquer them

>>1939299
*Pompey

>>1939133
He gave a lot of food to the poor and hungry of Rome, solidified a new governmental system after ending a Civil War, reduced debts, ended the rule of corrupt aristocracy and local military authorities, gave land and welfare to veterans, reformed the tax code, rebuilt ruined cities, initiated massive public works programs, extended Latin/Roman rights outside of Italy, and established a new calendar. At the time of his death he was planning the construction of massive temples, theaters, and libraries. That being said, he was also an egomaniac who tried to establish himself in the religious canon, had no qualms about slaughtering hundreds of thousands to millions of Gauls, and vested large amounts of state power in himself.

>>1939520
Don't forget he was old and wanted to destroy Parthia to fulfill an impossible "Alexander like" eastern destiny

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>>1939285
>guy says that he will deport all muslims

>>1939253
Capite censi (and all the Romans I guess) had subsidied Grains since way before Marius. Getting hold of dat grain in the Sicily or Egypt was of major importance for the Senators, because the Capite censi had a tendency to chimp out spectaculary when they didn't have it.

>>1939238

Is that a Total War reference I'm not getting?

>>1939207
>the democrat party sprinted to the left
The Dem establishment is in the exact same spot they were 25 years ago.

>>1939133
>my 8-yr-old
saw a pretty amusing article on vice a while back about this
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-weird-politics-of-using-children-to-back-up-your-opinions

>>1939685
yes.

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>>1939197
>using the left-right spectrum on political figures pre-French Revolution

>>1939133
>gave everything he owned on death to the people
>brought Rome to the Golden age
>reforms that saved the poor
>I saved all these people that they might betray me
>et tu anon

>>1939373
>I have literally never heard this and I was raised catholic
That would probably be *because* you were raised Catholic, where you get an actual religious education, as opposed to the non-denominational "Christian Christians", and various Baptist-by-descent folk around here, where "Science/Democrats bad, Republicans/Capitalism good", is the totality of their "religious knowledge".

>>1939714
They are far, far to the right of where they were 25 years ago.

Save maybe Sanders.

>>1939133
So not only is she a bulldyke who was dissapointed she couldn't indoctrinate the kid she adopted into being a political lesbian like herself, now she's also one of those fuckwits who think Rome died with the Senate because of "muh Republicanism".
Fucking Rome had it right with patria potestas.

>>1939322
>Rome
>Democracy

>America
>Democracy

>>1939309
He's already managed the last one more than anyone else has in the last 60 years.

>>1939133
Am I incorrect for being under the impression that Caesar was good by "Roman standards"???

Or was he just another degen?

>>1940026
He was practically deified, and the title of Caesar is still a sign of nobility to this day, from the Russian Tsar to German Kaisers.

All nations like to draw parallels to the glory of Julius' Rome.

>>1940030
But as a person, was he a good man? If its too broad of a question I can just do my own research, just being lazy right now

>>1939220
elaborate

>>1940036
"Good man" is very subjective, but >>1939227 shows some of his biggest social efforts. But you would have to look into him to determine if he is a good man by your standards.

Personally, I find him very admirable, and a good example of a wonderful dictatorship run by a wonderful person, even if he had some glaring flaws.

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>>1939178
>A citizen of the republic loving the republic killer
POTTERY

>>1939178
They don't teach ancient history to 8 year olds here. That women just made some shit up

"No more useful inquiry can be proposed than that which seeks to determine the nature and the scope of human knowledge. ... This investigation should be undertaken once at least in his life by anyone who has the slightest regard for truth, since in pursuing it the true instruments of knowledge and the whole method of inquiry come to light. But nothing seems to me more futile than the conduct of those who boldly dispute about the secrets of nature ... without yet having ever asked even whether human reason is adequate to the solution of these problems. "
- my 3 year-old

>>1940171
>2016
>not raising your children to despise republics

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>>1940188
Huh, that's weird. My 4 year old kid talks about uniting the German peoples under one flag all the time.

What have you been feeding your kid?

>>1940190
But he crashed the republican party with populism.

>>1940192
tell him to start stockpiling equipment fo building liquor factories
t. liquioria pro.

>>1940190
I genuinely hope you are saying as a citizen coz you don't know how much it sucks being under authoritarian rule. I would very much want to live under a true republic

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>>1940192
Your 4 year old has aspergers.

>>1940202
I (thankfully) don't live in a republic famalam.

>>1940209
So? Constitutional monarchy?

>>1940216
He could live in any of the remaining executive or absolute monarchies.

>>1940209
Where the hell do you live?

>>1940236
Definitely not a republic

>>1940242
Saudi Arabia? Monaco? The Vatican? WHERE!?

There's not a lotta nations left with widespread internet access that aren't republics of one form or another, lest you count those few with a symbolic monarchy on the side.

>>1939285
Considering islam is a right wing theocratic ideology it makes him more leftist than anything.

>>1940348
>right wingers cant hate each other
>left wingers cant hate each other

>>1940252
You tell me where you live first senpai

>>1939133

>Comparing based Ceaser to Trump

nigga, what?

>>1939197

>Trump
>far right

While I admire your statement on Ceaser, thinking that Trump is some far right wing nutjob is a meme.

Do some actual research, and analyse both sides of the argument before making a conclusion.

>>1940410
Commiefornia.

>>1940426
Trump is extreme reactionary, to the point he is often contradictory, but seems to be cozying up with establishment republicans in terms of staff and policy rather quickly.

>>1939285

M8, he's since gone back on that statement. He will let in Muslims into the country, provided that they share America's ""values"" as it were, and not hold any ties to fundamentalist/ jihadist interpretations of the faith.

And considering that Islam is pretty much the right to Christianity's left, I'd say he's more conservative/ neo-con/ classic liberal as opposed to a full blown fascist.

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>>1940428
It says republic on the flag.

>>1940431
>is extreme reactionary
That's a big fat "no" from me, Jim. Until he starts talking about repealing universal suffrage and shit like this, he's not a reactionary.

>>1940432
That's just him being reactionary and then trying to tone it down.

>>1940431

Contradictory, sure. Reactionary- to an extent. He's not Hitler or Mussolini. And even though I'm not his biggest fan, he's not imperialist, rather, he's isolationist.

And considering that he does, in fact, flip flop on his policies, makes him being a """far right winger""" moot, as he's not against all forms of immigration (having gone back on statements regarding illegal immigrants and Muslims).

He's no Ted Cruz. I'd say he's more of an orange Ronald Reagan.

>>1940435
Do you even know what reactionary means? Evidently you don't.

>>1940426
Truth be told, I don't think anyone really knows what Trump is, beyond a showman and a populous. He's said a lot of crazy far right stuff, but back peddled on just as much of it. He's been an avid supporter of the Democrats, and even of the Clinton family specifically, in the past, and has reversed course on that as well. I don't think anyone has any idea of what he's really going to do.

He's a wildcard - but at this point, I suspect the majority of Americans would rather burn this nation to the ground and start over, than continue on without change. So better to draw random than stay with the current hand.

Which is much the same outlook that got Obama elected over Clinton in 2008 - promising change over more of the same. He didn't deliver on that change, and Clinton, even if she had learned from the lesson, could never make the same promise, being undeniably thoroughly establishment herself.

>>1940436

Again, I won't dispute the fact that he flip flops, but because of him going back on more """"Reactionary""" policies, he's nothing more but a dog with a big bark as opposed to a bite.

>>1940439
>A reactionary is a person who holds political views that favor a return to the status quo ante, the previous political state of society, which they believe possessed characteristics (discipline, respect for authority, etc.) that are negatively absent from the contemporary status quo of a society
Trump has no intention of returning the U.S. to it's golden age by the means of the past. He seeks to do so by progressing it forward. He, like the fascists of the 20s and 30s, are not reactionary, but progressives in a different direction.

>>1940438
I'm not the guy who called him a right winger, I called him an extreme reactionary. What differs Trump from Hitler and Mussolini is they tried to make a vaguely coherent ideaology based on being reactionaries. Trump just shoots from the hip when he is being reactionary. And that probably comes from the fact he's an opportunist.

Reactionary is not the same as Fascism. It's reacting to change.

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>>1940428
Oh wow turns another whiny American that literally got a genuine populist over an elitist elected president. Call me when you live in Southeast Asia you ungrateful fuck

>>1940441

America is pretty much an ogligarchy at this point m8.

Besides, he's already back flipped.

https://archive.fo/fLoCy#selection-423.59-487.21

I guess the good thing about him is, is that he's going to make us rethink politics, idpol will be eliminated from the American """"""left""""""" and maybe we can see less politically correct politics.

>>1940443
>muh manufacturing jobs n shiet
>muh immigrants n shiet
>muh coal n shiet
He's a reactionary and you're just retarded because you think reactionary means he needs to travel back in time and become King George to be a reactionary.

>>1940441
All indicators seem to point to Trump becoming a Republican insider. Now that he has used his anti-establishment voters, he doesn't need them anymore. He does need congress if he wants a legacy. And the thing is, he seems to have no inherent ideology, he just wants to keep climbing the ladder.

>>1940442
But he's willing to tread the ground of extreme reactionary. It's true he won't fight for it and will dial it down, but he isn't the type to start with mild reactionary things and dial it up.

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>>1939178
Caesar essentially hammered the nail in the coffin of the republic because of his ambition and spite for the senate
Thats not a good thing, by the way. The republic is what worked pretty well for 500 years or so-- aside from the five good emperors Rome essentially went to shit. I can see why people would admire his political genius but commending him for ruining the tried and true system by courting the masses with lmao free shit should get you a scenic view on a cross

>>1940464
But what he did had already been done by others before him The Republic was a mess by the time he took power, and Rome's most peaceful and successful period was as an empire.

>>1940463
>and you're just retarded because you think reactionary means he needs to travel back in time and become King George to be a reactionary
I'm really glad that you have no argument and instead have to attack me as a person, but you could at least try to refute the actual argument that was made, fampai. He is not, by definition, a reactionary, as much as you want to make him out to be so.

>>1940464
The Republic was a fucking joke by the time Caesar came around.

>>1940451
America has always been an oligarchy. In fact, almost all governments have been an oligarchy. Oligarchy is a natural result of hierarchy, you have someone who is more powerful but needs a small group of powerful people who are more powerful than another larger group of people. Because oligarchy comes when some people are more powerful than others, and a multi-tiers hierarchy will always have a group of people at some tier that is more powerful than the masses, to form an oligarchy.

The thing is in absolute monarchy, the monarch has firm control over the oligarchs, but still needs them. A more traditional oligarchy has control over the head of state, and can depose and replace him. A republic is still an oligarchy, it just puts a little more power in the hands of the lower classes.

>>1940469
Idk but others but the Gracchi brothers did it coz they legit cared about the people and wasn't really hungry for power itself. Can't really say the same for Casear

>>1940469
>But what he did had already been done by others before him
Courting the masses, marching on Rome, murdering Senators or establishing himself as dictator for life
>The Republic was a mess by the time he took power
Civil strife caused by the First Triumverate and other issues never directly addressed regarding Rome that he never resolved, Pompey brought back order to Rome before Caesar decided to take over
>Rome's most peaceful and successful period was as an empire.
Under the five great emperors. Beyond that Rome only sunk lower and lower while the Republic stayed fairly consistent

>>1940470
I memetexted you three examples of Trump saying status quo or past things. Reactionary doesn't mean you have to be reactionary about literally everything.

America is no longer a manufacturing powerhouse. And even if you returned manufacturing jobs, you'd have to compete with an industrialized China now, so the manufacturing jobs would come with shit wages unless you were isolationist. So yes, he's trying to return to the past.

Deporting immigrants is trying to restore the past from before the immigrants came.

Coal is not the future, and again, it's literally rolling back on progress.

>>1940484
>Courting the masses, marching on Rome, murdering Senators or establishing himself as dictator for life

The specifics vary, but the basic idea of instituting himself as an autocrat with power he wasn't supposed to have in a fashion that should have upended Roman society wasn't a new thing.

>Civil strife caused by the First Triumverate and other issues never directly addressed regarding Rome that he never resolved, Pompey brought back order to Rome before Caesar decided to take over

Pompey couldn't hold power, ergo Pompey didn't manage to bring order back in any substantial fashion. Under Pompey was a Rome where Caesar could take power.

>Under the five great emperors. Beyond that Rome only sunk lower and lower while the Republic stayed fairly consistent

Pax Romana lasted longer than any comparable period of peace under the Republic.

>>1940485
Recalling the past does not make you a reactionary. If it did, Dick Nixon, Calvin Coolidge, and Barack Obama would be reactionaries. Hell, even Tom fucking Hayden had similar rhetoric in the god damn Port Huron Statement. Pretty fucking far cry from a reactionary right there. Despite your memery, Trump is treading into unknown waters, not the past. Again, he, like the fascists of yesteryear, is a progressive in a direction that is not left of center. He's not a reactionary.

>>1940497
Not him, but what unknown waters is he treading? Trade protectionism and limited immigration isn't exactly unknown in the US.

>>1940510
He's basically promoting right-wing technocracy, which is something the U.S. has never experienced. The immigration issue is another issue entirely. The U.S. has never really taken a handle on it's immigration. Even when it was "strictly" limited, they skirted the system with braceros and remittance workers from Europe. Hell, there was no real border between the U.S. and Mexico until the 1960's. It was even more fluid than the Schengen borders are. Trade protectionism is one thing, full-scale trade wars are a completely different beast entirely. On top of this, the way Herr Donald is handling them is pretty progressive. The trade protectionism in particular is something that's going to be done through the WTO, not American law.

>>1940510
>>1940525
Oh and a big one is his foreign policy outlook: While most people are very afraid of it, it's actually just an enforcement and continuation of liberal IR theory. It's literally nothing new. He's calling for the pre-existing international institutions to be enforced, not tearing them down as a realist (which would be a reactionary point in US policy) would.

>>1940497
You don't know what a reactionary is. Reactionary does not literally mean trying to rewind time.

>>1939197
You're a moron.
Caesar was a slave trading, Republic destroying madman.

>>1940539
>Reactionary does not literally mean trying to rewind time
I'm glad you realize that. I hoped you would realize I didn't say that. It's a return to status quo ante. He's not promoting that. He's quite literally promoting the opposite of that.

>>1939133
How does /his/ pronounce "caesar"? I used to say "see-sir" because that's how everyone around me always said it but now I find myself saying "kae-sar".

>>1940544
While I agree with you about republic destroying, he certainly was not a madman but a very intelligent ambitious person
Slave trading wasnt anything new though really

>>1940451
America has been an oligarchy for ages, so that's nothing new.

There is a bit of an unwritten agreement, among the old money, that the government's primary function is to allow them to settle their various disputes through a central mediator without too much violence, in addition to, of course, setting up policies and law in their favor.

So, while it's fine to have a few billionare congressmen or senators, taking the head office is a bit of a no-no. But then again, Trump isn't old money, he's just money, and as his business interests are primarily housed in hotels and casinos, direct conflict within the PtB seems unlikely.

Still, impossible to know what he's actually going to do - even if he can't do most of the things he promised, without near perfect backing from both houses.

On that front, the Republicans are currently divided into conservative and reactionary sets, but I don't think the Democrats are going to be the obstructionists that the Republicans were under Obama. There's a lot of conservatives among them, and historically, getting the Democrats organized to do anything is a bit like herding cats.

But by the gods are we ever fucking the 25-year rule in the ass.

>>1940548
>It's a return to status quo ante.
Which he is promoting in many ways. Wanting to return to an economy based on manufacturing industry, even if you're making iphones and introduce new protectionist policy is still reactionary and so on.

>>1940553
He's not a madman, I was just pretending to be retarded.
His exploits in Gaul are some of my favorite to read about.
Also the battles with Pompeii Magnus.

>>1940559
>and so on.
First of all, Zizek fuck off.

Second of all,
>Which he is promoting in many ways
No, he isn't.

>>1940450
I voted for Trump (not that it matters, cuz, well, Commiefornia - might has well voted Cthulhu) - and that has nothing with the question that thread was following.

>>1940433
Yes, I acknowledge I live in a republic, I just wanna know where the fuck that guy lives that he thinks he doesn't.

>>1939334
better have a good dictator for life than a rigged democracy for millennium

>>1940562
Gotta give credit to caesar for his storytelling
He exaggerates a bit when it comes to making himself look great but he was a solid tactician without doubt

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I have to wonder if he would have worn a hairpiece like Trump's if they had them back then.

>>1940464
the system was not working

>pirates running ramparts on the med sea
>various subjugates of the republic feel the need to rebel
>incompetent and cowardly legates underminde roman military might
>veterans not getting their rightful lands

Rome went to shit because of dumb emperors not because emperors are dumb

>>1940614
>pirates running ramparts on the med sea
Dealt with by pompey
>various subjugates of the republic feel the need to rebel
Which ones?
>incompetent and cowardly legates underminde roman military might
Explain further
>veterans not getting their rightful lands
They did get their rightful lands, most of them sold their lands and went back to Rome to live on the money finding farmwork 'distasteful'

>>1940614
>Rome went to shit because of dumb emperors not because emperors are dumb
A major fault of one man rule

I've never been able to figure out who people refer to when they just say "caesar"

It's like saying "president" and then assuming everyone knows you're talking about FDR or whatever

>>1940179
Could have been watching/reading Asterix to be honest.

That's personally how I knew who Caesar was since I was 6.

>>1940656
99.9% of the time they're speaking of Julius Caesar. A better equivalent would be saying Johnson or Roosevelt and while you know they will VERY VERY LIKELY say LBJ or FDR respectively, they might mean someone else.

>>1940669
Doesn't "caesar" just mean emperor though?

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>>1939202

yeah

>>1940656
Except the title president doesn't come from Washington's name. Caesar was first a name and gradually became a title aftet consecutive princeps' kept taking it out of respect for Juilus and Augustus.

>>1940669
They should be speaking of augustus considering he accomplished far more and fixed Romes degeneracy for a time

>>1940672
Imperator means emperor.

>>1940683
Yeah, but Julius was the first and by far the most remembered.

>>1940190

you just ruined your good boy points™ by implying in even the slightest way that direct democracies are the hottest shit.

>>1940681
Oh. I just figured cause Caesar and Kaizer is basically the same word and Kaizer is german for emperor.

>>1940206

or he might be the reincarnation of Otto von Bismarck you dumb fuck.

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>>1940695
Any time someone argues for direct democracies again I tell them to look at how it worked out for Greece
>>1940697
Likely took the word from the Romans considering its repeated usage from future princeps

>>1940565
No but you love in an actual republic so you don't get to bitch to someone who is not living in one. Also you can't bitch that your vote in California is wasted when dem voters in Texas and Florida are even worse off. Unless you actually leave to live under a dictatorship, don't whine about how California of all fucking places is not a republic

>>1941083
>don't whine about how California of all fucking places is not a republic
Is there something wrong with the way the posts are linking up or something, cuz it looks fine from here...

I've already said I *do* live in a republic. California is a republic, and it's part of a greater republic, no ifs ands or buts.

...What I r saying, is I'm doubting this kid's word when he says he doesn't live in a republic - as there aren't a lot of places left in the world where you could post that from honestly. I think he just doesn't know what a republic is.

>>1940666
Asterisk isn't a thing here

>>1941145
Animaniacs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GComvtenvvk
...Maybe not.

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>>1939133

>>1941303
That's Histeria you noob

>>1939133

Gallic genocide levels of bad, 1/3 dead, 1/3 enslaved by the time he was finished, and the whole thing was because he needed to pay his debts and so decided that conquering Gaul would be a good way to get loot.

>>1939227
Caesar was kind of a dick but he was a dick towards the patricians and Senators so you'd think the bougie urban commies would love him.

>>1941093
Oh I see ... Way up the chain of replies someone said he did not live in a republic so I assumed it was the same poster. And yes I do know what a republic is and my country is at best a parody of it

>>1941419
Seems like he was right about it being a good place to pillage for loot

>>1939387
Ave, true to Caesar

>>1940697
Tsar also comes from Caesar

>>1940464
The republic was crumbling, you just need to look at the strong men like Sulla taking charge to see the system was busted.

>>1939133
As far as anti-republican populist demagogues go he was pretty good. I don't necessarily agree with everything he did, but I'd never demonize him for it.

>>1939153
RHEIN XD *waggles*

>>1940464
>The republic is what worked pretty well for 500 years or so
>republic worked really well
I'm literally a Republicboo but that's wrong.

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>>1940469
I can't hate him or blame him for the mess but he really didn't "make rome great again" either.

>>1939133
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN 4chan... I thought this was /his .... read a damn book every once in a while... Julius Cesar was not that bad... actually not bad at all... in fact... what got him murdered was the fact that his policies menaced the status quo... the answer to your child should be... "not really son, Cesar was a good governor, Trump is scary because he might be as bad as hitler, who by the way was a decent governor but a complete sociopath, now, let's both read up about Caligula and figure out what were in for ok?"

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>>1942627
>who by the way was a decent governor

>>1942630
oh shit i forgot... usa... Nazi germany is the devil and therefore it was all demons and such... lets alll ignore the fact that these guys constructed an industrial and militarized empire from a country devastated by war... yeah he was the bad guy... fk this read a little and stop being a child

>>1939133
Caesar is one of my personal heroes.

>>1942640
Well, as much as I think Hitler kinda gets a bad wrap, that's a poor defense, as the cash for that came about as part of the Weimar economic recovery, and in addition to killing the mechanisms behind it, he kinda squandered it all in creating that military machine.

Not that Germany had much choice but to go to war to get a better deal than they did under the Treaty of Versaille and the like, be it under Hitler or someone else.

>>1942659
Ah finally some sense...yes, an armed conflict might have been a natural consequence of Versaille, but the fact is, that this little fker had the political saavyness to take advantage of the people-s desperation, as we all know, the mere fact of shifting the whole economical weimar paradigm is an amazing feat for any government... a governor capable of radically changing the economic policies of a nation during his term is frankly a very capable governor... yes he gets a bad wrap... he was also a bit bad in the head as history has demonstrated... but thats what you get when you vote with your gut and not with your brain... good luck US...

>>1940544
Caesar did not destroy the republic. The ultra-conservatives did when they murdered him and created a massive power vacuum which was filled by a far more ruthless, unscrupulous power-broker named Augustus.

Caesar didn't do anything that Lucius Sulla hadn't already done. Sulla had done it in the name of making the aristocracy dominate the government, and Caesar was a massive backlash against this a generation later.

>>1942627
>>1942640
>>1942677
Ellipses are not periods. It makes you look like tumblr when you type like that.

>/his
now I'm convinced

>>1942693
>Caesar did not destroy the republic. The ultra-conservatives did
Is this some new meme? I don't hate Caesar but his actions definitely did start down the road towards ending the Republic.

Not that the Republic was long for the world anyway.

>>1942627
>>1942640
>>1942677
Who the hell goes through the extra effort of adding two extra periods at the end of their sentences?

>>1942716
Sorry I guess, bad habit. Will work on it!

>>1940550
C in latin was pronounced as a soft K, never S.

>>1940672
His name was Gaius(first name) Julius(family name) Caesar(sub-family name)
He was Gaius of the Caesar-branch of the Julii family.

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>>1939197
>Caesar-Moderatly left wing populist

>>1942720
>Caesar but his actions definitely did start down the road towards ending the Republic.
It's not a meme, just a more nuanced look at the situation. Literally nothing that Julius Caesar did was any different from what Lucius Sulla did, right down to warring on his own country and being appointed dictator-for-life.

After his assassination, Octavian was able to avoid Caesar's fate by existing outside the public apparatus as a government within a government, which only maintained the outward appearance of democracy as a facade. Caesar did not inherit the title of Dictator for life and assumed a relatively tame title of 'first citizen'.

>>1942825
not him, but he was a member of the Populares, which was pro-plebeian, anti-slavery, and favored strengthening the say of common Romans in government. It supported laws regarding the provision of a grain dole for the poor by the state at a subsidised price. It wanted reforms which helped the poor, particularly land redistribution for the poor to farm and debt relief. At times it also supported the extension of Roman citizenship to Rome's Italic allies.

So yes, actually, center-left if we're using modern sensibilities.

>>1942838
I think the joke is that for his time Caesar was extremely left-of-center

>>1942838

Caesar sided with the Pops because that's where his soldiers sided. Caesar cared about Caesar, you don't achieve what he did without ruthless self-interest.

>>1942895
It was likely more than that, his men loved and revered him. He had probably held that stance in one form or another since he was a general.

>>1939373
Anti-Roman sentiment is more of a Protestant thing. Catholics couldn't go against Rome without drowning in irony.

>>1942938
>his men loved and revered him.

Because he won, and in doing so made them rich. Caesar pursued power at all costs, the whole reason he even invaded Gallia was to further his political ambitions. He was a "great man", by which we mean a ruthless self-promoter who got away with it (kind of, in the historical sense anyway)

>>1942938
How is him being loved by his people take away from him being ruthlessly self-interested?

>>1943156
Protestants invented the meme that Rome "declined and fell" specifically in an attempt to make the Catholic Church look bad

>>1939133
Trump isn't even nearly as capable or popular as Caesar. Hell, he hasn't even conquered a country

And has he even tried to suggest he has a lineage to a greek god? I don't fucking think so

>>1940036

Julius Caesar was deified for one reason and one reason only.

Because Augustus was one smart mother fucker

He made his uncle in to a god in the minds of the people so that he could claim relation to divinity further solidifying his right to rule

Augustus was the true genius

>>1939322
America has always self-identified as a Republic. The media has tried to push the democracy meme in the last fifty years because they know it will fuck up the country in the long run and please their corporate masters.

>>1939972
Nice job knocking down all those strawmen. Literally worse than stormfaggots. Congrats.

>>1943210
>And has he even tried to suggest he has a lineage to a greek god? I don't fucking think so

That's because he's a proud Aryan and a secret nazi. He claims descent from Wotan, thru his wife's son.

>>1939133
I mean, he made autocracies the norm for 2100 years until the based republic came back in the form of America, so... ya he was kinda shit. Even though he was kinda baddass.

>>1940464
>>1940614

The Republican system essentially bred it's own end. It relied far too heavily on patrician competition while granting the patricians power in every sphere of society to call upon when furthering their ambitions. It's no coincidence that Caesar wasn't the only extremely powerful patrician, Rome actively encouraged men like Sulla, Marius, and Pompey. Every patrician understood that their survival in society depended on playing the game, whether for selfish or altruistic reasons. Caesar, and later Augustus, were just the logical conclusion of the system, they won the game.

>>1943260
might want to rethink that year desu
Julius was born in 100 BC

>>1943262

Republics existed during the middle ages.

>>1943262
>caesar and later augustus

Caesar was a charismatic brute, nothing more.

Augustus won the game. Augustus and Augustus alone. Augustus was the one playing 4d chess

>>1943211
But then again; who taught augustus everything he knew? That's right, ceasar. He examined ceasar's life, including his errors. But Caesar had as much a role in agusutus' reign as augustus himself, IMO.

>>1942838
What the populares and caesar were not against slavery.

>>1943285
Around 1800. I'm too drunk right now to do math. Not to mention selecting store fronts. That shit is taking me forever.

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HE WAS A CONSOLE OF ROME

>>1943304
True

Honestly though as much as I love Roman history I haven't read much at all about the Roman empire. I find the roman kingdom and republic to be much more interesting periods.

My first Roman history class stopped right after Augustus so that may have something to do with it lmao

also if its time to meme,

>conflict of the orders
>real

pick one fgts

>>1942838
>Literally nothing that Julius Caesar did was any different from what Lucius Sulla did
Precisely why I said his actions contributed to the end of the Republic. Not the greatest contribution, maybe, but certainly he *signaled* the end.

>>1940702
... So aspergers.

Rome died at the end of the Third Punic war. Everything after that was just a bunch of bullshit playing pretend by boy-fucking cosplayers. The soul of Rome ceased to exist when those monsters murdered Carthage in cold blood.

>>1943309
They were against slavery because slaves took working people's jobs, not because they gave a shit about the slave

>>1942640
>gain a country that has all it's economic vitals intact.
>all you have to do is to push a little diplomatically and you get all your precious clay back.
>start a war that ends up ruining germany.

yeah.. he was.. a good leader for.. germany.

caesar was not a "bad" person per say. what caesar represents however is the end of the system while in reality he was only one of many.

i have no doubt that had caesar not existed, the same result would of happened regardless. the roman system created lions who eventually ate the zookeeper

>>1942554
>republic worked really well
Who are you quoting?

>>1943920
So the US basically ceased to be meaningful when the USSR tore itself apart?
Sounds legit to me.

Is his son pompey?

>>1939214
Which is funny, because Trump is unironically one of the most "left" candidates they've had.

>>1944146
Pompey was his son in law, who was older than him

>>1943920
>in cold blood
Yeah, those poor innocent Carthaginians didnu nuffin, Hannibal wuz jus tryna get his elephants back togetha

>>1939309
>Pardoning a major mafioso

That would be stupid as hell. Throw her in prison along with her cronies and cohorts.

>>1943295
Merchant Republics mainly. And the few that weren't reserved almost all voting rights to the upper class.

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>Liking proto-commie dictators

A president "as bad as Caesar" would probably be the best president America has ever had.

When cesar was a senator he pushed some fucking progressive reforms.

>>1939133
Caesar was a literal dictator but he improved the lives of the Roman people. Tbh the roman republic would have ended anyway.

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>>1940484
>Rome's most peaceful and successful period was as an empire.
>Under the five great emperors

I'm sorry who do you think pic related is?

>>1943391
but it wasn't *his* actions which led to the collapse of the Republic. It was the act of assassinating Julius Caesar which created the power vacuum which led to the rise of the second triumvirate and later consolidation under Octavian Caesar, whose actions far more directly influenced the rise of the Empire.

>>1946170
But did not Caesar's actions lead directly to his assassination. I'm not arguing whether he "deserved it" or some similarly useless assertion, but the conspirators' actions seem relatively reasonable in their situation. Caesar was objectively behaving very much like a king, there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have continued that trend. He certainly had the influence with the common man necessary to get away with it.

>>1940525
What the hell is right-wing technocracy?

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>>1940432
Hard to go back on statements you never made.

>>1939285
How would you deport them THEN register them?
Correcting the record is one thing but this is just lazy.

>>1940348
>enacting a supposedly "right wing" policy towards other "right wingers" makes you "left wing"
mfw every time

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ITT:
>/his/ is Caesar apologia board

>>1944825
That is only maybe, but what is definite is that it will be its last

>>1946294
A meritocracy based upon skill and knowledge that happens to lean towards the right. Generally far more concerned with economics and legality than, say, the environment or social welfare. A technocracy in and of itself is neither left or right-wing. It can be one or the other, though.

>>1946294
It means climate change denial

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>>1946270
>But did not Caesar's actions lead directly to his assassination.
But this is blaming the victim. Caesar was one month into his term as perpetual dictator when he was assassinated. He would not have been the first perpetual dictator, and most Roman dictators stepped down when they felt like they had accomplished all of their policy goals, as the last perpetual dictator (Lucius Sulla) had done.

What lead to his assassination was the rise of an ultra-conservative status quo which bitterly protested even the slightest changes to the established order after Lucius Sulla made it so that they completely dominated the government for a generation. Their actions lead to massive government dysfunction, which is what necessitated a Caesar in the first place.

And regardless of their intent, they murdered the most popular demagogue that Rome had ever seen and then got away with it on a shady legal technicality. This would have completely shattered any trust that the common Romans still might have had in their public government, and the public was massively on the side of Caesar's heirs in the military, while the ultra-conservatives were chased out of town. That was truly the point at which the Republic was dead.

If Caesar was really the cause of Rome's governmental malaise, then removing him should have improved things, but it had exactly the opposite effect, as Brutus, Cassius, Metellus Scipio and Cato the Younger learned too late

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>>1946306
Nobody is apologizing for a genocidal, self-promoting astronomically wealthy demagogue in a military uniform, but it's a lot like the story of Galileo: the true nuances of the tale are lost because people shamelessly dump down the story in order to promote some kind of social/political agenda

>>1946352
>Generally far more concerned with economics and legality than, say, the environment or social welfare.
How the heck are those defining features? They're not inherently left or right. I call it a bullshit terminology you invented on the spot.

>>1946423
Compare Chilean dictator Pinochet, a right-wing technocrat, with the more left-wing technocrat, Al Gore. There's a world of difference.

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>>1943347
>console

>my

You aren't fooling anyone bitch

Not as bad as Trump

>>1939201
>tfw no Huey Long