Socialism-Communism

trots will come to this thread and bitch about how soviet union and all other attempts at communism weren't real socialism. it's annoying because we will never be able to disprove trots, since there will never be a world revolution. i just hope that those kids grow up.

>Alchemists don't exist now, but why do Soc-Coms exist?
>this thread
>a thread about hitler doing nothing wrong
>a thread about a grandpa and stalin with an obviously fake story
>a thread about friedman being an accelerationist jew
Can't you faggots stay in your containment board already? /his/ was fine for a couple of days.

>>1932749
First of all, socialism ≠ communism. Literally equating the two does nothing but make you look like the dog-whistle responding mouth breather you are.

Second, you wouldn't know the definition of socialism if a laptop open to the Socialism page on wikipedia fell in your lap AND the world's foremost scholar on the historical development of socialism was sitting next to you while it happened.

>hurrrr anything left of my political stance is socialism durrrr

>>1932834
ahah literally read first post, this is you

>First of all, socialism ≠ communism
OP said soicliasts AND communists you fucking subhuman

>Second, you wouldn't know the definition of socialism if a laptop open to the Socialism page on wikipedia fell in your lap AND the world's foremost scholar on the historical development of socialism was sitting next to you while it happened.
not an argument, but i thought socialism/communism was for simple people not ivory tower intellectuals?

>hurrrr anything left of my political stance is socialism durrrr
not an argument, your version of socialism will never happen, read 1st post again

>>1932816
>fake story
OP of the stalin thread here.
>fake story
He told me those things, I believe him, he doesn't have a reason to lie.
If you don't believe it, do it.
Many people coming over from red countries hate communism.

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People still believe in astrology and homeopathy.

People are retarded.

This is not even something edgy, most people are really really really stupid.

>>1932860
>those wizard gains
nice

>>1932834
> socialism ≠ communism
that's your implication silly goose

The rest of your post is just a long ad hominem.

Allow me to do the same thing, in a more efficient manner:
You don't know the first thing about politics, economy or history.

That's the only way you can "argue" isn't it.
If you enter in a sincere no-aggression discussion, you'll find how irrational you are.

>>1932850
>Many people coming over from red countries hate communism.
Sure, stalinism is utter garbage, and i'm not surprised about people rooting for hitler. The thread is still obviously fake. Why are you asking /his/ what he meant by that instead of your grandfather? Why are you using the term bluepilled if you're not a /pol/tard? Why are you using it in the opposite sense? It's bait, and it's obvious.

I don't know if you faggots coordinate this shit over irc or if it is a coincidence but i've seen multiple instances of a bunch of /pol/tard thread being created in a short span of time, sometimes with the exact same subject.

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Even Black Economics Man agrees with communism.

Look at the people who are communists today. They're all fucking idiots. Communism as a theory is not that idiotic, though. There are some theoretical faults, sure, but that's the case with any idea. I don't have anything to prove this but I'd say it's likely that the people who were attracted to communism back in the early 20th century were a slightly more mild version of the autists who support it now. Imagine those people trying to run the show; of course they're going to fail.

>>1932875
>what did he mean by this
Obviously it's a meme, i know what he meant, it's just a cheeky way to introduce to what my grandpa said.

How new are u

>>1932749
>Alchemists don't exist now
Uh...

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>>1932749
Good, or at least interesting ideas were translated into complete shit.

>>1932886
Yes, i am aware that you are not really asking anything, but you apparently needed a justification on why the story was an excuse for a /pol/tard thread.

>>1932908
you're really new aren't you.

>>1932908
>waaah the guy who made this post is from /pol/
not an argument

>>1932900
I'm sorry, the field of alchemy is soaring and transforming the world.

>>1932916
I've been here since before /pol/ and stormfags were a thing, faggot.

>>1932925
>can't into the elementary form of memespouting
Sure thing newbuddy

>>1932903
>good ideas
Were they really good?

>>1932929
ebin

>>1932932
If we are talking about marx, he was a step forward in pretty much every field he tackled, even if he was ultimately wrong about a lot.

>>1932943
No, about Communism.
Is it really a good theory?

>>1932949
Well, there isn't that much theory about communism really, marx barely wrote about it. The teleological view of history is garbage though.

>>1932954
>teleological view of history
You mean diamat?
In that history has somehow a structure-purpose and how it should behave and how we should change it?

If yes then I agree, it's a bad concept.

It's still around because they constantly redress it and attach like tics to other ideas people hold dear. (environmentalism, feminism, Unions etc)

They've moved from revolutionary tactics to slow gradual changes not many people can notice. (just looked at Trotsky's criticism of the Fabian Society style of spreading Marxism)

>>1933037
it's funny because whole revolution part was the big shtick of dialetic historical materialism.

Now they do calculated changes.

>>1933060
Socialism neither ends nor begins with Marx.

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>>1932749
>>1932794
Totalitarian nationalism is pretty much the opposite of communism.

Communism is a network of tiny *communes*, based on areas of production, where the workers have direct control over the means of production and the distribution of those resources.

In other words, a near complete abandonment of centralized government.

But, for obvious reasons, such a fragmented system can't survive in competition with other more centralized businesses and governments - on top of the fact that business and manufacturing are now far too interdependent and specialized for such a system to really operate, unlike the age when Marx was talking about this shit.

So no, communism doesn't work... Save maybe on very small scales, like with IT startups, as with the worker owned businesses model - but even then, after you grow to a certain size, you have to abandon it.

Even the USSR just used it as a con. They claimed their totalitarianism was the first step towards true communism, but never even moved an inch towards that supposed goal. But even they never claimed to have achieved communism.

Closest thing we've seen to Marx's actual ideals put into use, rather than just promised to gullible masses, are the early days of:
- Microsoft
- Yahoo
- Google
Where the workers owned the means of production, dictated their use, and decided upon the distribution of profits. Spawning the "worker owned startup" - Marx's wet dream.

Problem is, of course, eventually, your company gets too large to do that. You can't have your warehouse workers having a say in your software design decisions, and the like - thus you switch to the traditional corporate model.

So, communism doesn't work, because eventually shit gets too big to be handled by what equates to anarchic communes. But it's not that it's been tried and failed - no one's been stupid enough to try it on a massive scale, as the unsurmountable problems are immediately obvious.

>>1933107
You're right, it's postmoder/poststructualist fusion with marxism that produced the new-far-left (SJWs)

Capitalism has legitimate concerns and I say that as a Capitalist.

People are looking for an alternative and there is no reason to believe that such an alternative couldn't exist in a highly advanced technological society.

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>>1933110
>Closest thing we've seen to Marx's actual ideals put into use, rather than just promised to gullible masses, are the early days of:
>- Microsoft
>- Yahoo
>- Google
>Where the workers owned the means of production, dictated their use, and decided upon the distribution of profits. Spawning the "worker owned startup" - Marx's wet dream.

>>1933118
Cringe, you don't know what you're talking about.

>>1933123
It's exactly that though.
you'd have to be completely ignorant of history and philosophy to deny it.

If your argument is ad hominem and ignorance then don't bother.

>>1933119
What are those legitimate concerns?
Tens of millions dead bodies?
Nope.

Capitalism is far from perfect, it does have some concerns.

The analogy I'd draw would be of fear of sharks.
Sharks kill every year about 10-40 people.
There are countless other things that kill thousands times more people than sharks but we don't "feel" the same danger or danger at all.

It "feels" scary but in the end capitalism has produced the best result for it's people.

Criticisms are fine, but that's the only thing those people can do, criticize.
That's their life.

That's the magnifying effect.
When you live in X society, you see all the effects of X, you can magnify it, and analyze it to death, because you're surrounded by it.

When there is an idealized Y society, it's not there to be analyzed, you have only the theoretical idealized version of it and you just love thinking about it.

It's infuriating how ungrateful people are about capitalism, despite it's shortcomings.

>Communism is bad

Sure thing, wageslave.

>>1933209
> muh work or starve

AAAAAAH!! Nature is coercing me! Fucking Bourgeois! If it weren't for those filthy Capitalists we could all be subsistence and no conflicts over scarce resources.

>>1933220
subsistence farmers*

>>1933110
"muh coops" the post

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>>1933220

>implying it would be even remotely difficult to ensure everyone has enough food and water to go around

God I can't wait for automation to render work worthless.

>>1932749
>why does a political ideology that dominated half the world a couple of decades ago and credibly threatened to win over the half still have adherents
gee I don't know

why do fascists still exist?

>>1933292
It's part of Socialism though, NatSoc, that is.

>Iran
>DR Congo
>Yemen
>Somalia
>Nicaragua
>Taiwan
>Burma
When were these communist? Enlighten me

>>1932749
Part of it is simple pushback the persistent narrative that capitalism is flawless. Kids grow up and when tthe hit the real world they realize how they've been lied to. It's like DARE with weed lies.

I'm a capitalist myself, but anyone that says it's a perfect system instead of just better is lying or crazy.

>>1932749
They're not a monolithic bloc. Someone calling himself a communist or socialist may not necessarily be Stalinist or totalitarian, no matter how much right wing nutjobs scream about communist conspiracy.
>political beliefs are mental illness
Brezhnev pls go.

>>1933220
ebin strawman

>>1934136
Somalia was communist-led for like 15 years after the mid 70s. Although they were infinitely more interested in Somali nationalism than anything to do with communism on the count they basically blew their entire economy on trying to fuck over Ethiopia and Kenya.

If I'm not mistaken Yemen was actually two different countries one of which was communist-led.

>>1932749
Because capitalism doesn't work everywhere.

>>1932749
>Alchemists don't exist now

????

>>1932749
>Alchemists dont exist
>what is Chemistry

History moves at a very slow pace. It will probably take another century at least for humanity to get over communism. China is really the only holdout and it's just clinging to the mere vestiges of communism, it's long since abandoned its tenets. When the remnants of communism are at last snuffed out in China, then we can finally begin moving on.

>>1934226
>Capitalism is a "system"
And then I listen to some moron describe something that isn't capitalism and it's no wonder they resent it.