Judaism general

>>1925365
Any book about the history of the jews that isnt biased towards or in favor of them? I am really intereses in their history.

>Do not engage in illicit sexual relations.

what does that even mean?

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>>1925365
this thread's gonna be great

where are their taboos on manual labor sourced?

>>1925369
Well Jewish history is extremely long and spans basically the entire planet. It would be very difficult to have a book concise enough to cover it all whilst being comprehensive enough to be impartial.

But in my experience mainstream books are generally fine, it's not bias so much as the Jews more often than not just did nothing wrong.

>>1925369
I have a book called Constantine's Sword, a history of the Church and the jews


It's a book basically about Medieval Europe and jews, analyzing "the actions of numerous popes and other prominent figures of Catholic Church history, especially those who advocated anti-Jewish policies and those who tried to rein in official antisemitism, including St. Augustine, Bernard of Clairvaux, Nicholas of Cusa, Innocent III, Paul IV, Pius IX, Pius XII, John XXIII, and John Paul II."


It's a clear cut book written in proper historiographic fashion, read it if you enjoy medieval Papacy, because at times it focuses more on them than anything else

>>1925379
If you would be more embarrassed getting caught by your mum doing it than you would getting caught having normal sex you probably shouldn't do it.

e.g pissing on each other is bad, blowjobs are probably alright. But don't take my word on that.

>>1925365
why do you wish to impart wisdom on the goyim

the wisdom of the chosen is not for them, the gentiles. it is useless to them.

this is why i assume you never see "Judaism generals", or at least they're so rare. because why bother teaching the non-chosen?

>>1925385
There aren't any.

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how to marry largest breasted jewess qt and move to tel aviv to run small falafel stand as a shegetz?

>>1925410
Literally only Hasidic and Poltards use the word goyim


And hasidics can't use computers


Stay in your containment board retard

>>1925412
>small falafel stand
How are you gonna make a living running a paltry sized falafel stand


You know falafels sell for like 3 dollars a pop right

You're gonna have to sell a thousand falafels a week to survive

>>1925410
>because why bother teaching the non-chosen?
I'm not trying to proselytize Judaism. I'm trying to foster quality discussion surrounding Jewish history and humanities.

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What are your guys' thoughts on this Orthodox Rabbi and his videos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDKKiv5nNsc


Also does anyone have suggestions for someone that wants to learn about Sephardic Jews from Spain/Latin America/North Africa and their history/traditions?

>>1925412
Be rich.

Not being antisemitic, this is just the case for women everywhere.

>>1925421
>Literally only Hasidic use goyim
>implying
that's actually not entirely true

>>1925436
You're right, hasidics And Poltards like they said

>>1925452
You don't have to be a Jew, but you should acknowledge the reality of G-d for your own sake if nothing else.

>>1925460
t. achmed

>>1925461
Literally what?

>>1925461
well in Texas you can't be atheist and run for office either, Christian right isn't that different than Muslim right

>>1925466
He's saying people HAVING to acknowledge god is very radical in nature, a practice only found in certain Arabic countries ala UAE, SA, Qatar, Omen, etc

>>1925473
I'm not saying you should believe in G-d lest some kind of Jewish radicals behead you. I'm saying you should believe in G-d to be righteous.

>a practice only found in certain Arabic countries ala UAE, SA, Qatar, Omen, etc
It's also worth noting that historically no gentile has ever been executed for violating the Noahide laws.

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>>1925481
> and even then they are all half rate compared to their non jewish counter parts.
Now this is just a blatant lie.

>>1925496
>posts a literally who

>>1925481
autism, enjoy your ban

>>1925482
Britain also believed they're the world's moral authority, so idk man

>>1925499
>Wittgenstein is a literally who
Leave this board and never return.

>>1925496
so this is the mother fucker who's the reason why I almost failed math...

Whatever, guess I should've studied harder

>>1925499
that's hitler's childhood mate, jewish philospher

>>1925482
>no gentile has ever been executed for violating the Noahide laws.
Jews just slaughter any gentile that falls into their power anyway. People only think of jews as harmless and peaceful because historically they've been too weak to act on their religious decrees. But when they do gain some power they pull some genocidal shit like the Kitos War.

>>1925518
>ny gentile that falls into their power anyway
wtf does this even mean you homeschooled retard
God you're embarrassing, idk why 4chan get's all the fucking weirdos and not infinichan instead

>>1925518
Did nothing wrong.

The Messianic age ain't free. The liberation of Israel gotta be littered with the blood of imperialists.

>>1925523
jews dindu nuffin! removed from 109 locations in history cuz gentile racis

>almost wiped out during the third revolt against rome
>almost wiped out during the holocaust
>still believe in god

>>1925532
>109 locations
Odd, you retards used to claim it was 110 country's


Please tell me more about your 5th grader ms paint jpgs, I really do want to see a (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) on /his/

>>1925534
>>nail the real messiah to the cross
Well you see Jesus wasn't the messiah.
>>chimp out and massacre people in the name of a fake messiah
Yeah, he wasn't the messiah either but he gave it a decent shot.

>>1925537
they control the world financially pal

i'd believe in god if i was born jew

>>1925537
That's precisely the reason to believe in G-d.

You can only get almost annihilated so many times before you have to admit something supernatural must be going on here.

>>1925542
here's a source by Jews http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/expulsions.html

I thought you guys claim to have been oppressed a lot? Don't Jews always go on about how much they've been historically persecuted? But in a different context suddenly you claim the opposite...

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>>1925545
For how long, about a century? Jews have only had Israel for less than 70 years, sure they may have the Americans backing them up, but they had the Romans backing them up 2000 years ago and they had to ruin it then, too.
The Romans ended up kneeling before Christ and you will too.

>>1925559
>but they had the Romans backing them up 2000 years ago
I think that's quite the opposite of what the Romans were doing in Judea 2000 years ago.

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>>1925567
The Jews were in a good position. They had the protection of Rome, they didn't have to worship the Emperor, they got their temple maintained, they even had the Romans execute people the Sanhedrin condemned to death. Then they fucked it all up because some greek guy sacrificed a chicken in the street (which modern jews do now, anyway)

I suppose this is as good a place as any to ask:
When did Judaism become the dominant religion in Israel?
Clearly the Phoenicians had pagan/ multiple gods for a while, but by the time of the Romans they were extensively Jewish. Someone explain this to me.

>>1925581
>They had the protection of Rome,
I don't think occupation is the same thing as protection, pal. It's not like the West Bank has the "protection" of Israel.

>, they got their temple maintained,
Except when the Romans destroyed it.

>>1925582
read the bible

>>1925591
>Except when the Romans destroyed it.
I mean before they threw their little jew tanty against the Romans.

>>1925582
In the crudest sense possible around the 9th century BC.

>>1925601
By occupying them, right.

To return to the earlier comparison this is like saying Israel is maintaining the Dome of the Rock.

I propose that the Jewish community takes possession of the old testament entirely as a 'Great Jewish Work of Literature' and we rename the OT the Jewish Testament.

The NT should also thus be named the Christian Testament to show the doctrinal and philosophical differences.

>>1925626
That's basically already the understanding. Except among Christian fundamentalists who care more about the OT than the rest of the bible.

>>1925365
What are the best arguments for God existence?

Secondly for all the goys do the noahide laws mean that most christians, mormons and even muslims will get into heaven or do we have to abstain from all spirituality/ not attend any church or synagoge

>>1925626
Only if the Jewish community renames themselves the "Prophet-Killing Devil-Sons"

>>1925666
>Secondly for all the goys do the noahide laws mean that most christians, mormons and even muslims will get into heaven
Yes, as long as you are a righteous person G-d will reward you for your deeds.

>>1925428
>orthodox
Not even the strictest jews are real orthodox. Our rich culture has been plagued by degeneracy far longer than any gentile country.

>>1925691
>Yes, as long as you are a righteous person G-d will reward you for your deeds.

Is our heaven the same as yours?

>>1925701
Jews spend very little time worrying about heaven and in a sense are very this-worldly. There is no universally agreed upon Jewish concept of the afterlife. Here's an article about it.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.638100

>>1925365
What are your thoughts on the arguments made by an orthodox christian poster against judaism and the illegitimacy of its connection to the OT

http://pastebin.com/V7rpLJSZ

>>1925365
This is not a bait post or anything, but what are some recommended textual sources of Jewish humor? I've heard some funny rabbinic stories, and even modern comedians rely heavily on playfully deprecating Jewish culture. What are some texts that collect these stories, or whatnot?

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>>1925386
>Well Jewish history is extremely long and spans basically the entire planet.

So do Jews just pretend all the history / religions they based theirs off of not exist? Or is the the same as the Muslims where it's all
>Just Gods way of revealing himself to man kind because we were not ready

>>1925731
>See post
>Open link
>CONSTANTINETHESINNER
Of course it was Constantine.

I think he/she/it is making a lot of very flimsy arguments. But to give credit they do somewhat acknowledge this in the latter half when they explicitly point out arguments that are grounded in a Christian perspective.

>>1925735
The Seinfeld boxset.

>>1925749
I'm not sure what you're asking.

>>1925751
is there a good source of counter arguments for these claims?

>>1925777
I will write a counter-post and post it when I'm done.

>>1925782
thanks, argumentation seems to be onesided here with only christians having researched arguments

>>1925759
Like, if you ask a christian priest about dinosaur bones they will say: "It's all a trick to test your faith"

Or if you ask about the various pre-Jew religions like the egyptian gods they say "They believed in the same God, but just used different words", Or if you ask the muslims about there ancestors being followers of Zoroastrianism "They were just tricked by the devil".


What is the Jewish explanation for history before the Jews?

>>1925802
Jews don't exactly believe that Judaism was the original religion. Unlike Muslims who hold that Adam and all the prophets since Abraham were Muslims. Even very strictly speaking Abraham wasn't a Jew per se.

Jews in any practical context only emerged when Moses came down from Mount Sinai with his revelation and covenant from G-d. This is what truly marks the birth of Judaism, rather than it simply always existing. This was the moment when the Israelites were elevated into being the chosen people.tasked with restoring order as G-d had originally intended prior to the transgressions of earlier history.

>>1925833
Very interesting and well written.

I recently started learning Hebrew. How hard is it compared to other languages? Doesn't seem that hard so far tb.h

So can you become jewish, or do you have to be born jewish?

You all need to read this.

http://www.balderexlibris.com/index.php?post/Jones-Eugene-Michael-The-Jewish-Revolutionary-Spirit-and-Its-Impact-on-World-History

Here's the first part of the response to Constantine's FAQ in case anyone thinks I won't deliver because this might take some time.


http://pastebin.com/xKvaBNfE

>>1926022
You can become Jewish and basically every Jew alive today is descended probably mostly from converts.

>>1926051
jews believe they're descended from the 13 tribes of israel, or something

>>1926051
>You can become Jewish
Tell me more about this.
Is there some sort of fee involved?
Do adults have to do all the religious ceremonies kids had to do as they grow up?

>>1926045
Before I start reading, why do you leave out the o in God? Is that an autistic tic or something?

>>1926059
They are, they just also happen to be descended from converts. And if I'm not mistaken by converting you're officially part of the tribe.

>>1926065
Not exactly, you basically just need to be able to pay your own way in regards to education and certain ceremonies. You also need to pay $100 to the Rabbinical council of America which is kind of funny come to think of it.

>Do adults have to do all the religious ceremonies kids had to do as they grow up?
You don't have to. But a lot of adults (not just converts) who didn't get an opportunity to have a Bar Mitzvah can and will do so in later life.

>>1926071
It's a sin to erase the name of G-d so Jews generally just drop the O constantly so you never have to risk accidentally destroying it.

Also letting this thread 404 would be a sin otherwise.

>>1926106
Ah, that is a clever circumvention. 10 points to the Jews.

>>1926088
>pay your own way in regards to education and certain ceremonies
What education are you talking about?
Like college?

Also what are these ceremonies and how much are they?

>Rabbinical council of America
Is this the Jewish version of the vatican?

B8

>>1926106
but "G-d" means god, and therefore is a name for god, which is destined to be a erased.

>>1926126
>Like college?
More like having a tutor. To convert you need to be reasonably well acquainted with Jewish law, the Tanakh and Hebrew.

>Also what are these ceremonies and how much are they?
The exact price depends on your area I'd assume. But if you're a dude you need to pay for your circumcision, everyone has to pay for the mikvah and administrative expenses to the Beit Din.

>Is this the Jewish version of the vatican?
Not really. Probably more akin to those nationwide Sharia councils Muslims have in the UK than to the Vatican.

>>1926135
But it's not a proper name, or even a proper word for that matter, at face value it's basically unpronounceable.

Really it's just a suggestion of another word that's actually a name for G-d. Without being informed by the reference to the actual word it would be nonsensical.

>>1926167
Very interesting.
Unrelated but are Jews required to be friendly, or at least talk with other Jews?

My mother looks Jewish (shes Italian) and whenever she would go to the community center (primarily Jewish) everyone would try to start conversations with her like they knew her on a personal level.

Just wondering if that's a Jew thing or just something else.

Do Sephardi and Ashkenazi get along?

>>1926197
>Unrelated but are Jews required to be friendly, or at least talk with other Jews?
Jews are expected to be friendly in general. You'll notice in the old testament that they make a very big deal about being kind to strangers.

Although I think it might be more a cultural thing by virtue of Jews being kind of insular and historically living in close communities. Especially since lots of Jewish communities are infamously rude to gentiles.

>>1926203
There are cultural divisions but they don't tend to be unfriendly. Reportedly, though, there was considerable malice in the early days of the State of Israel between the Ashkenazi (who had suffered the brunt of the Holocaust) and the Mizrahi (many of whom simply fled from other Middle Eastern countries)

>>1926203
Inter-Jewish tensions are very much case of haves and have nots above all else. Case in point the group the ruling Israeli Ashkenazim have a problem with most after Arabs is probably Haredi Jews (who are also usually Ashkenazi) who are poor as fuck.

>>1926106
clever.
Is it a sin to browse 4chan?

>>1926242
Yea I'm confused about this too. I was under the impression (I heard from an Orthodox Jew) that you couldn't use electronics on the Sabbath as a Jew, which I thought was today. So would a Jew be sinning by browsing 4chan today?

>>1926242
I don't think so as long as you yourself don't say anything sinful.

>>1926249
The Sabbath ends at nightfall on Saturday.

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What is going on in Israel with Zionists and Orthodox?

The way I understand it:
Jews were allowed to skip out on army service if they became Orthodox or something?
Most people became Orthodox instead of going into the army.
Then the Zionists tried to force the Orthodox to serve, but they got voted out of power?

I have not really been following it.
Could you fill me in?

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What is the Jewish stance on Anime?

>>1926260
I don't live in Israel so I wouldn't exactly know. But from what I understand ultra-Orthodox Jews don't think Israel should exist on the count that the messiah hasn't come yet so returning from exile early isn't right.

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>>1926277
>the messiah hasn't come yet
What is the messiah suppose to do when he comes?
And how will you know the messiah when he arrives?

>See thread.
>Expect it to be filled with /pol/lution.
>Go into thread.
>No /pol/lution.
Feels like nirvana. Have the /pol/luters finally crawled back into the containment board where they belong after shitposting everything for months?

>>1926291
>What is the messiah suppose to do when he comes?
A lot of stuff. He's be the king of Israel, restore the Sanhedrin, restore the temple and return the Jews from exile. Those are the most notable.

>And how will you know the messiah when he arrives?
Because everything will be great, there'll be no injustice or tyranny The world will be at peace and bountiful. It'll just be great.

Oh, another big hint is that you'll rise from the dead because he probably won't show up in our lifetime.

>>1926306
The election is in a few days.
Id assume they are all in full on tryhard mode.
No time to shitpost in slow boards like /his/

>>1926306
It's because the election is in just a couple of days. They need to return to their homeboard to amass strength for the shitposting spree that's about to erupt.

>>1926277
That seems to be the most cucked answer you could give us. How could anyone take them seriously?

>>1926312
>return the Jews from exile
What exactly is keeping the Jews in exile?

What if a non-messiah did all these things?
I mean, it's not like a human could invade, declare himself king of Israel, and rebuild the temple.
(Besides the dead coming back to life thing)

>>1926312
>Because everything will be great, there'll be no injustice or tyranny The world will be at peace and bountiful. It'll just be great.
Does the world end like the Christians believe with the second coming of Jesus, or does life on earth just become great?

>>1926324
>I mean, it's not like a human could invade
>I mean, it's not like a human could not invade
That whole sentence is bad.

I mean to say, all of those things could be done by men.
What would happen if someone did all of them?

>>1925552
this list is only 30 long and lists mostly events, barely expulsions

are you genuinely retarded

>>1926324
>What exactly is keeping the Jews in exile?
Nothing right now because there's a powerful Jewish-run state there that would like Jews to return.

>What if a non-messiah did all these things?
Because a lot of things the Messiah is expected to accomplish are fundamentally supernatural, especially raising the dead. There's more than that, like turning all the barren land on Earth lush, ensuring world peace forever, ending death, hunger and disease, and giving you everything you desire (as long as they're not sins).

Basically unless G-d is helping you there's no way any mortal man could accomplish all this. Thus is the significance of the messiah.

>Does the world end like the Christians believe with the second coming of Jesus, or does life on earth just become great?
Life on Earth just becomes great. Like the Garden of Eden because that's how G-d originally planned Earth to be.

>>1926332
This whole thread has been very interesting.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge anon.

>>1926321
What do you mean?

To them being righteous Jews is more important than Zionism.

>>1926339
Glad to help. I was pleasantly surprised that it didn't degenerate into /pol/tier nonsense.

Talmudism is a false Pagan religion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNS2O57mv2w

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=10154

Educate me on King David

>>1926411
He was a proper mensch.

>>1925481
>no it couldn't possibly be that jews did some smart things it must be a conspiracy!

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Why do Jewish doctors always have an all black staff? Everyone from the nurses to the receptionists.

Iv been to many doctors, and this has never not been the case.

>>1926498
To give /pol/ reading patients heart attacks so they pay more money.

>>1925365
Christianity began as a Jewish sect and even though Jews don't think he's the messiah, a bunch of them (the first Christians) did. Why?

How does sheol work?

>>1925365
I like how Jews corrupted their own Torah just because they're afraid of Christ.

>>1926554
The Torah is the first five books of the Christian bible, you fucking mongoloid.

>>1926332
Christ defeated death, rose from the dead whole, brought the dead back to life fully, turned water to wine, brought the path to eternal life and Salvation, and rebuilt the Temple in 3 days. He fulfilled the Scripture and prophecies, yet Jews in their pride deny these things, even going so far as to corrupt their own Torah by distorting the ages of the lineages from Adam to Christ.

>>1926557
Clearly you don't know what I'm referencing.
Toward the end of the 1st century AD and into the 2nd century, the Talmudic, Edomite Jews were actively attacking the Greek Septuagint because it was used by the Christians. They felt that they could discredit the Christians merely for the reason that they used Greek, and at the same time, they began twisting the Hebrew Scriptures to try and disprove that Jesus was the true Messiah.

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What is your favorite Jewish language? I used to like Yiddish, especially as I used so much of it growing up, but nowadays I've fallen in love with modern Hebrew. It will also come in handy for me as I plan on making aliyah at some point.

>>1926272
I've actually met quite a lot of Israeli weebs, and I don't think religious Jews know what anime is

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>>1925369
Josephuses Jewish Wars. Do you have another chance but that to read a history book written almost 2000 years ago by a Jewish aristocrat, a rebel military commander of the north of Judea that witnessed the fall of Jerusalem and later became a personal friend of the Roman Emperial family?

>>1926587
>Edomite Jews
what are those

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>>1925365
Only the fucking Jews would make a general on a no general board

nah


Romans 2:29
Philippians 3:3
Galatians 3:16
1 John 2:23

>>1925922
That depends. Are you learning Biblical Hebrew or Modern Hebrew?

>>1928080
There was an Islam general last week.

There was also probably about 1000 Orthodox generals in /his/ history.

>>1925802
>Or if you ask the muslims about there ancestors being followers of Zoroastrianism

>Zoroastrianism
>Arabia ~600AD

Sure there would have been marginal communities but to say that muslims were originally followers of Zoroaster is quite ignorant.

>>1926576
You see that's only true if you have an extremely warped view of Messianic prophecies specifically to fit what Jesus is reported as doing.

>>1928149
>No one who denies the Son can have the Father; whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well. 2
Just a bit polytheistic.

>>1928206
I've even seen a few satanism generals here

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Come home, Jewish man

>>1928229
If you don't understand the trinity yet, please don't contribute, you will confuse others in the thread.

>>1928258
>I didn't save Judea from the Romans
>I didn't resurrect the dead all over the world
>I didn't bring an age of peace and ever lasting prosperity
>Judea was destroyed, and renamed to Syria Palaestina
>it's people were massacred and exiled, cursed to live as a diaspora, a minority wherever they go
>but I'm totally the Jewish messiah

No.

>>1928270
Neither does anyone else. Hence why it's a mystery.

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>>1928258
>0AD
>Jews aren't in exile
>The Temple is still standing
>The Sanhedrin is still in order

>Yet somehow this is the moment when the messiah shows up.

Not buying it desu

>>1928229
>>1928279

Essentially, in simple terms, if you deny God in the flesh, you deny the same God eternally.

When Jesus walked the Earth, he was the same God of all creation, to say you deny God in the flesh, but conveniently accept the same God after you die -KNOWING he brought people back from the dead, knowing he conquered death, knowing thousands witnessed his miracles, and knowing even that they accepted he is the Christ. You do so deliberately, it is deliberate denial of God.

If you do so unknowingly, that is different.

>he that denieth

God is one, but he is eternally God, outwardly God, and even inwardly God. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

read the passages carefully.
>>1928149

>>1928312
I hope you realize the following
a) Jews don't believe Jesus was resurrected
b) What Christians believe Jesus did is not nearly as impressive as what the messiah is expected to accomplish and uphold.

Case in point. The messiah is not supposed to perform some miracles, die and be resurrected. He's supposed to liberate Israel from suffering and make the world a just and righteous place. He's supposed to do this in one lifetime, he's not supposed to die in a tragic two-part script and accomplish the rest thousands of years later. Speaking of which the very concept of a second coming implicitly admits that Jesus hasn't accomplished all that is expected of the messiah.

>God is one, but he is eternally God, outwardly God, and even inwardly God. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
And that belief is above any rational explanation. It's a mystery as essentially all Christian churches agree.

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>>1928364
If you mean Torah, you are literally reading half the story anyway.

John 16:33

I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

He has already liberated your people, all you have to do (literally) is confess with your mouth that he is Lord. Submit your life to him, and he will take care of things.

>>1928381
Not him, but once again your argument is irrelevant because Jesus did not do what a Jewish messiah was supposed to do.
>>1928275
>>1928364

>>1925482
>believe in god to be righteous
Aaaand the threads invalidated. Fuck off.

>>1928381
>He has already liberated your people,
I feel bad if I'm being rude to you because you're being very nice. But I just don't believe it because last I checked I'm still in America, the temple is still in ruins, the Sanhedrin is no where to be found, the world is still at war and the whole planet has yet to acknowledge the ONE G-d of Israel.

It just doesn't seem like we resemble the messianic age any more now than we did in 1BC. As a matter of fact less so.

>>1928391
>>1928403

Alright, well one of these days, if you have the time, try watching this.

https://youtu.be/cz5FY958FvQ

desu the argument against Jesus is an old tired dead beaten horse, there is plenty of evidence. If you have the patience, it's a good watch, keep your bible links open though, lots to read along.

>>1928078
What would become modern day Jews.

>>1928422
evidence that he is the Christ that is

>>1928275
>>I didn't save Judea from the Romans
He saved all His people
>>I didn't resurrect the dead all over the world
All those who fall asleep in the Lord are raised to the Lord
>>I didn't bring an age of peace and ever lasting prosperity
The kingdom of Heaven is peace, and is prosperity
>>Judea was destroyed
More proof against Judaism
>>it's people were massacred and exiled, cursed to live as a diaspora, a minority wherever they go
7,000 have not bowed the knee to Baal
>>1928391
Yes he did. Read the book of Hebrews.
>>1928403
>I'm still in America
He does not live on this earth
>the temple is still in ruins
Yes, and for far longer than before.
>the Sanhedrin is no where to be found
It is no longer needed. They crucified the Lord of Glory
>the world is still at war
Yet His kingdom is at peace
>the whole planet has yet to acknowledge the ONE G-d of Israel.
Through Christ the nations bow to Him.
>It just doesn't seem like we resemble the messianic age any more now than we did in 1BC.
The law has been fulfilled, now is the age.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+53&version=ESV

>>1928441
>He does not live on this earth
But, but the messiah is supposed to.
>Yes, and for far longer than before.
Precisely why Jesus has slipped up here.
>It is no longer needed. They crucified the Lord of Glory
G-d doesn't change his mind just willy nilly. Nor would He or the messiah get crucified.
>Yet His kingdom is at peace
That doesn't address my point.
>Through Christ the nations bow to Him.
Just one problem with that. The entire planet doesn't believe in Jesus either.
>The law has been fulfilled, now is the age.
It doesn't seem like it though.

>>1925481
WE WUZ SCIENTISS AN SHIET

>>1928472
>But, but the messiah is supposed to.
He did
>Precisely why Jesus has slipped up here.
The body of the believer is His temple
>G-d doesn't change his mind just willy nilly.
He didn't. This was the plan from the start.
>Nor would He or the messiah get crucified.
Many times i see the words of Paul proven again and again
The message of Christ crucifed is a stumbling block to the Jew, and foolishness to the Gentile
He was the true sacrifice, for there is no forgiveness in the blood of lambs and goats, but they serve only as a reminder of sin. He was crucified to reconcile His people to Himself. No-one took His life, He gave it freely.
>That doesn't address my point.
His kingdom is on this world, and there is peace in it. as the messenger in the wilderness said, "Repent and believe for the kingdom of G-d is at hand"
>Just one problem with that. The entire planet doesn't believe in Jesus either.
Show me a nation, and i will show you men who serve G-d.

>>1928472
I think the problem is that the interpretations trivialize God, and the purpose for his coming is made to seem as something wholly materialistic and physical. When that sort of thinking alone is an impediment, a barricade that would help us further understand him.

>>1928275
Your issue is you believe the "Jews are God's chosen people" shtick. Nothing but Jewish narcissism actually gives credence to that idea. Understand Jesus as someone who came from God, to lead mankind to God and it makes a lot more sense how he'd be the messiah.

>>1928556
The Jews were chosen, because they were Israel. Now Israel was taken from them and given to the nations.

>>1928514
>He did
And all righteous people are supposed to live forever since.
On Earth.

>The body of the believer is His temple
Now this is just the height of deciding what doesn't fit your agenda is a metaphor.

>He didn't. This was the plan from the start.
It literally isn't though.
http://biblehub.com/isaiah/1-26.htm

>He was crucified to reconcile His people to Himself
I should mention that Jews don't believe in inherited original sin either.

> and there is peace in it.
But there isn't. There's loads of wars happening this very moment.

>Show me a nation, and i will show you men who serve G-d.
Could you elaborate on this?

>>1928364
Your issue is you believe the "Jews are God's chosen people" shtick. Nothing but Jewish narcissism actually gives credence to that idea. Understand Jesus as someone who came from God, to lead mankind to God and it makes a lot more sense how he'd be the messiah.

Applies to you as well. The Jews will never have their "Messianic Age" because they don't even properly understand it. Jesus came to earth and taught God to the people. Theologically they never understood their own religion to begin with. Hence 40 years in the desert, many prophets who've they've murdered and over 3 diasporas from their "promised" holy land. It seems they haven't learned anything even still.

>>1928556
>Nothing but Jewish narcissism actually gives credence to that idea.
Except the entire old testament.

I hope you realize that "chosen people" isn't a message of Jewish supremacy. When they say "chosen" they mean "chosen for more work".

>>1928593
>Except the entire old testament.

You mean a heavily biased work that was insignificant to anyone sans the Jews in tell Christianity?

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>>1928586
I advise you actually read some Jewish theology.

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>>1928597
>I'm Christian
>But I don't care about the old testament.

If you don't care about the old testament you shouldn't care about the concept of the messiah either. You should be content enough to believe that Jesus is a god if you're going to disregard the history and G-d of Israel.

>>1928593
>When they say "chosen" they mean "chosen for more work".

You realize laws similar to the 10 commandments was found practically in every civilized society except for "you shall have no other gods besides Yahweh" and "keep the Sabbath holy."

Unless you mean Judaism's sharia-tier kosher laws (which Jesus stated to be false) how exactly do Jews work harder?

>>1928613
I never said I was Christian.

>>1928581
one passage after

-Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

>>1928621
>Unless you mean Judaism's sharia-tier kosher laws (which Jesus stated to be false) how exactly do Jews work harder?
That's exactly what I mean. Jews have 613 laws to uphold as part of the covenant with G-d.

>>1928629
Yep, that's pretty par for the course with the coming of the Messiah. I don't understand if you're trying to make an argument.

>>1928622
So what's the point in arguing then?

>>1928633
> That's exactly what I mean. Jews have 613 laws to uphold as part of the covenant with G-d.

Those laws are nothing but pharisaism. Why would any gentile believe God actually commanded Jews to follow such meaningless precepts?

>>1928634
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink

>>1928581
>On Earth.
Nope
>Now this is just the height of deciding what doesn't fit your agenda is a metaphor.
You don't understand. The temple was indwelt by His Holy Spirit. Now that Spirit dwells in me.
>I should mention that Jews don't believe in inherited original sin either.
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
>But there isn't. There's loads of wars happening this very moment.
And His people have peace, shalom. There is no war in His kingdom, and His kingdom is on earth.
>Could you elaborate on this?
Every nation has men who worship Him.
>>1928634
Zion has been redeemed, by His blood it has.

>>1928639
>Those laws are nothing but pharisaism.
Actually they're nothing less than part of G-d's covenant as outlined throughout the old testament.

>Why would any gentile believe God actually commanded Jews to follow such meaningless precepts?
1. I'm not particularly bothered if gentiles don't think highly of it. The great thing about Judaism is it's not about proselytizing to gentiles.
2. It's not meaningless at all, it's the path to being righteous as G-d commands us to be.

>>1928661
The laws were there so that Israel would be a light to the nations, a symbol of righteousness. They were fulfilled by Christ, who kept the law perfectly.

>>1928606
Jewish theology sounds kind of interesting. Where would I start?
Also, out of curiosity, are there any contemporary works worth reading?

>>1928651
>Nope
But actually yes. Just as the Garde of Eden was on Earth so too will the world to come.
>You don't understand. The temple was indwelt by His Holy Spirit. Now that Spirit dwells in me.
That's not what was written though.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+40
It's explicitly outlined as a physical temple.
>Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
Yes, babies are born without sin.
>There is no war in His kingdom, and His kingdom is on earth.
There is war on Earth though.
>Every nation has men who worship Him.
But not everyone does.

>Zion has been redeemed, by His blood it has.
It doesn't seem like it, the Sanhedrin is still no where to be found.

Why do Christians always like to argue theology and proselytize using arguments that only make sense within a Christian framework? At least those Muslim proselytizing pamphlets at least try to work with the beliefs of the people they are talking to.

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Despite being the spiritual opposite, Jews hardly ever talk about Pagans.

>>1928754
We talk about them a lot in the Torah and Talmud, but nowadays it's less of an issue.

>>1928671
Whoops replied to the wrong person.
In terms of modern books some good ons are Man is Not Alone, For Those who Can't Believe and Halakhic Man are all good and very good introductions compared to older Jewish works.

>>1928669
>They were fulfilled by Christ
That's where we disagree
G-d explicitly states that the covenant is forever and His bond with the Israelites is everlasting.
>"And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you."

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>>1928763
When your modern sand palace fades, they will be.

The spirit of rebellion towards masters, which is central to Judaisms spirituality, will be its own undoing.

>>1928789
That is one happy looking statue.

>>1928764
Sounds good. I'll definitely look into them. Thanks.

>>1925365
http://forward.com/opinion/353422/we-need-to-change-the-internet-so-its-better-for-jews-and-everyone-else/

Does anyone else here agree with this?

>>1926045
thanks ill get reading on this

>>1928764
>Descendants
Yes, Christians. The first Christians were Jews, whom then spread the Word to all the nations of the world. Jews who did not and do not accept the Word of God deny God.

>>1928206
Do you u understand what a "general" is in the context of 4chan?

>>1928764
They are not all Israel, that are of Israel

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>there's people that think that jews are still a race of their own

>>1929154
It's funny you should say that because that quote is literally stating that G-d will never exchange his covenant with the Jews to any other nation.

>>1929209
Yes.

And this thread is specifically modelled on early /his/ Christian generals.

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>>1929209
>>1930174
there are 2 popular definitions of 'general threads' in terms of 4chan threads.

The first is a thread created as a "catch-all" thread for discussion of all types (relating to a common theme). A 'QTDDTOT' thread (for questions that don't deserve their own thread) would be considered one of these, as it serves as a repository of information for anons to add to or take from. These are quality threads when they have a lot of people contributing, and when they ONLY are created periodically.

The second definition of a "general" thread is a thread that has become considered "permanent" by its users. This thread is remade in identical form the very second that it dies, and posters who use it rarely venture outside into other threads. This results (over time) in a cancerous community that considers itself, for lack of a better term, a subreddit or subforum of the board. Also, due to it being permanently up, even when no one has anything to talk about, general threads will tend to act like chatrooms, or youtube comment sections, with people bringing up random shit, putting on tripcodes for internet fame, and getting in shitfests over irrelevent shit like what image the OP gets to use.

>>1930174
you seem to believe this thread falls under the first definition
>>1929209
and you believe it is the second.

As long as people don't bump this thread for no reason or recreate it i think it's still the first definition

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>>1929523
Not a race, but diaspora jews share a common ancestry and are genetically close.

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Why did he have to die?

>>1926346
>>1928763
Judaism is properly called Talmudism, which has its origins in Pharisaism and is the ideological opposite of pre-Christian-era Judaism.

>>1930288
>The Pharisees are the ideological opposite of pre-Christian Judaism.
Now that's just not true.

You'd be right to point out that the Talmud, structure of modern Rabbis and other such innovations from the Pharisees are somewhat different from pre-Christian Judaism and this is precisely because until shortly after Jesus' death the temple was still standing. The temple remained the central hub of the Jewish faith rather than having to go into underground oral tradition mode. Then the Romans destroyed it and made the whole Pharisee/Sadducee debate moot since it simply wasn't possible to not be a Rabbinic Jew.

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Why rabbi why?

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Why???

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>>1930319
>Those eyes.
Comedy gold.

Why would you do this. This is just guaranteed bait for /pol/ faggots.

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>>1930325
This is no laughing matter.

>>1930335
This thread went pretty well I think.

Maybe /pol/ have given up on their antisemitism now that their godking's daughter is a Jew.

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Who was he?

>>1930356
Not the messiah, he's a naughty boy.

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>>1930363
How did he misbehave?

>>1930366
Blaspheming.

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>>1930371
By whose authority?

>>1930382
G-d

>>1930356
>>1930363
>>1930366
>>1930371
>>1930382
>>1930389
Can you two either fuck or actually debate theology rather than continue this stupid shit? If they could manage it in the Disputation of Barcelona, I'm sure you can manage it here (debating theology, not fucking; far as I know, they didn't fuck at the Disputation of Barcelona).

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>>1930389
When did He say that?

How do Jewish people feel about a lot of western occultist adapting the Kabbalah and sort of fusing it with hermetic in

>>1930411
Cont fusing it with hermeticism

>>1930406
Deuteronomy
>If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, 'Let us follow other gods' (gods you have not known) 'and let us worship them,' you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you

The Christian conception of god is completely alien to Judaism, therefore Jesus was a false prophet deserving of death as G-d commanded.

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>>1930396
Please don't curse, this is a blue board.

>>1925481
Bullshit and even if it was true olinto de pritto was a white guy not a negro

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>>1930421
Jesus never preached other "gods," He is simply the Son of God.

Do you guys take the claims of the black Hebrew Israelites seriously?

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>>1930467
Very.

>>1930469
Deyd a real joos

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>>1930479
What is a joo really?

>>1930433
He preached himself.

That's one more god than I'm used to.

>>1930467
I assume you're talking about the ones in NY that hate white people and think Jesus is going to return and enslave us all. In that case lolno.

Some weirdo black nationalist Jew movements are alright though. Even though they're not taken very seriously.

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>>1930498
God spoke His Word from the beginning.

>>1930509
He didn't though.

>>1925467
That is on the books but its no longer in practice, in reality you can be an atheist and run for office, not that you're gonna be elected as an atheist in texas anyways, maybe in austin.

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>>1930512
>וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יְהִי אוֹר; וַיְהִי-אוֹר.
>וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים

I'm most of the way through Menachim Begin's 'The Revolt', and it's one of the most engrossing things I've ever read. If you want to learn -- doctrinally, anyway -- how to fight a guerilla war against overwhelming odds while your rivals on your own side are fucking you over, maintain the moral high ground, and win, this is a must-read.

Well isn't it true

that Ashkenazi Jews are fake white jews/Khazars

and the true jews are black americans?

>>1928441
>He saved all His people
Well he didn't save the Jews, something a Jewish messiah was supposed to do
>All those who fall asleep in the Lord are raised to the Lord
The messiah was supposed to resurrect the dead.
>The kingdom of Heaven is peace, and is prosperity.
He was supposed to have brought this on earth. How is he a messiah if he can't save anyone living?
>more proof against Judaism
No, more proof against the false messiah who saved and accomplished nothing a messiah was supposed to have done.
>7000 have not bowed the knee to baal?
What?

All in all, Yeshua was obviously not the Moshiach. It baffles me that Christians would try to get Jews to believe in someone who did absolutely nothing for them. Just stop.
>>1928556
Read the old testament.
>>1929523
Judaism is an ethnoreligion. Most Jews descend from other Jews, or at least have a Jewish mother. We don't go around trying to convert others.

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>>1930604
>endorsed by the IRA
Now that's something to put on the cover.

>>1926045
Just confirming are you going to add to this document or create a new one?

>>1926051
>studies tend to imply a small number of founders in an old population whose members parted and followed different migration paths. In most Jewish populations, these male line ancestors appear to have been mainly Middle Eastern. For example, Ashkenazi Jews share more common paternal lineages with other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than with non-Jewish populations in areas where Jews lived in Eastern Europe, Germany and the French Rhine Valley. This is consistent with Jewish traditions in placing most Jewish paternal origins in the region of the Middle East.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews?wprov=sfla1

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>>1926321
Almos nobody likes them in Israel. They do hold some power because they exploit the political system by using their political parties as leverage in parlamentary coalition negotiations when new governments are formed.
Their power has been decreasing in the last years due to the internet and smartphone revolution. Its harder to resist modernity and increasing numbers of young ortodox switch to milder forms of jewdaism or even going full atheist. And even those who stay become more involved in society and less extreme.
t. Israeli

>>1931326
What about those religious Jews living in Judea and Samaria? Are they zionists or do they believe the same as the ultra orthodox that deny zionism? Or do some ultra orthodox sects support zionism?

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Why do Jewish girls like my WASP cock so much?

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>>1931475
They are religious Zionists and believe that Zionism and its success is the beginning of the Geula. They are similar in this to the US Evangelists that view the restoration of Israel as a miracle foretold by the Bible.
They are also more open to modernity, they do not see a contradiction between science and Judaism and some of them are scientists including one Nobel prize winner, they believe that one must be gainfully empoyed, serve in the army and be patriotic. They are very nationalistic and view the land as holy. It's important to them to live in the pali territories (the mountains) since historically those places were the hurtland of ancient Judea and have more meaning to them than places that are hurtland modern Israel (the coast).
Some of them believe in rebuilding the temple before the Messiah comes and in the importance of national unity more than adherence to Judaic law. For example, they would prefer everyone to uphold the Shabat but most would be against imposing this by law since they believe that such things should be achieved by agreement.
They can be the most high quality individuals with the highest morals but at the same time some of their splinter cells have a dangerous ideology that is more similar to the Zelots of temple period than to the Pharisis.

>>1931573
Wow they sound awesome. Is their sect or group just called "religious Zionism"? Are they a major force politically in Israel, and around how many of them are there?

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>>1931487
why do wasp-jews love my girly cock so much

>>1931631
They are a significant minority and some of them hold significant positions. Generally speaking they are hated by the liberal progressive part of the old elite.
Here is the current leader of their political party. An impressive guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftali_Bennett?wprov=sfla1

Served as an officer in a commando unit, got out, established a high tech company and sold it for 100 million dollars. When the Lebanon war broke out he actually returned to lead his reservist unit behind the front lines like a month after becoming a millionaire. Think of risking your life when you have everything to loose. That's what I meant by extrordinary character.
You can disagree with those guys but you have to respect such men. Something epicly biblical about them.

>>1931818
I've seen this guy on YouTube debating and being interview before. And that part about him going back to the reservists sounds amazing, you are right about his character.

Hopefully more religious Jews will follow the example set by the religious zionists.

>>1930925
I didn't make an account so I'll make a new document.

>>1926260
Basically, back in the 1950's there were very few rabbis left after the holocaust, so they gave Torah students an exemption from army service in order to help rebuild Jewish culture. At this point, very few Jews in Israel were considered orthodox and they figured after a couple of generations the exemptions would just gradually fade away as less and less people studied Torah.

Today the orthodox make up 20% of the population. But because basically every single male studies Torah, even though they don't actually share their knowledge with anyone else, they get the exemption, and they have too many votes to change the law.

>>1930675
>Well he didn't save the Jews
He saved any who believe in Him and trust His sacrifice, whether Jew or Gentile
>The messiah was supposed to resurrect the dead.
He did. He descended into Sheol, and rescued all the souls of Israel, bringing them to heaven.
>He was supposed to have brought this on earth.
He did. The kingdom is on earth, in the believers.
>No, more proof against the false messiah who saved and accomplished nothing a messiah was supposed to have done.
Only if you make pharisaic interpretation the same as what is written
>All in all, Yeshua was obviously not the Moshiach.
Tell me, where is the House of David, if Jesus was not Messiah?
>It baffles me that Christians would try to get Jews to believe in someone who did absolutely nothing for them.
He crushed the head of the serpent

>>1930498
Truly truly i say to you, before Abraham was, I Am
John 8:58

>>1930164
No it doesn't. Jews =/= Israel.

>>1932061
>20%
Thanks god not. They are 8%.

>>1932117
>let me tell you what your scripture says
>izrael is wee not uuu
Ohh common why do you have to culturally appropriate other people's religions? Really its like arguing with some Chinese guy that Reebok is worse than Ribak or something.
Its our invented stories go invent your own stories and worship them.
The only reason you are even Christian is that the Romans who never had their own belief system got bored with Greek religion during some social crisis and decided to go with something more eastern and exotic, choosing one of the lighter Judaisms heresies.
Same way really as westerners now go for all kind of hari krishna stuff that was simplified for them so they can be hooked up and put into some cult.

>>1930329
LMFAO

>>1931326
From what I've read Haredi Jews are the fastest growing population in Israel, and more secular Jews are joining them.

>Their estimated global population currently numbers 1.3-1.5 million, and, due to a virtual absence of interfaith marriage and a high birth rate, their numbers are growing rapidly.[7][8][9][10] Their numbers have also been boosted by a substantial number of secular Jews adopting a Haredi lifestyle.[11][12][13][14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredi_Judaism

>>1932167
Israel = G-d's people
>The only reason you are even Christian is that the Romans who never had their own belief system got bored with Greek religion during some social crisis and decided to go with something more eastern and exotic, choosing one of the lighter Judaisms heresies.
*tips fedora*

>>1925421
>Literally only Hasidic and Poltards use the word goyim
This thread LITERALLY opened with the following:
>ESSENTIAL INFO for all goyim ITT below.
So...

>>1932106
>he saved any who believe in Him and trust his sacrifice, whether Jew or Gentile
The moshiach was supposed to save the Jews on earth, which he clearly didn't do as the Romans massacred and exiled them. Furthermore, the world is as screwed up as ever, so clearly he wasn't the moshiach.
>rescued all the souls of Israel, bringing them to heaven
He didn't resurrect the dead all over the world. Bringing souls to heaven and resurrecting the dead on earth are not the same thing. Furthermore, in Judaism souls go to "heaven" anyway. There is no evil concept of a fiery hell in mainstream Judaism to prevent this.
>only if you make pharisaic interpretation the same as what is written
What? If anything your entire interpretation is based on what is written by Jesus's disciples and others after his death, and don't have legitimacy in Judaism, and thus Yeshua can't be the Jewish messiah.
>tell me, where is the House of David, if Jesus was not the Messiah?
There are still few that carry the blood of David, and one of them will be the Moshiach.
>he crushed the head of the serpent
Please elaborate

>>1932424
It's a 4chan meme at this point.

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>>1932450
Why do Jews hate Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy so much?

Is it...is it because it points to Yahshuah as the Messiah?

>>1932404
This trend if it even existed outside of alarmist progressive joirnalists minds has changed. This Irrelevant cult's last stand against modernity is both pitiful and sad. More of them leave the fate and there is already a large haredi battalion in the army. Especially as their leader Rabbis have died of old age and new ones have failed to arise. They have internet websites, you can find sex chats and swing groups for them on the web. Even the fact that they use Hebrew for everyday communication is a tastment to their failure to resist the national revival.
>>1932424
Goy actually means Nation in ancient Hebrew. God literally promises Abraham that he will produce a great Goy (nation) from his seed. It somehow became a politically correct way to refer to other nations and then much like niger became politicly incorrect. Using this word by public figures is considered politicly incorrect in Israel.

>>1932450
>The moshiach was supposed to save the Jews on earth, which he clearly didn't do as the Romans massacred and exiled them. Furthermore, the world is as screwed up as ever, so clearly he wasn't the moshiach.
I've already answered this objection several times ITT. I won't do it again.
>He didn't resurrect the dead all over the world.
Yes he did, and he continues to
>Bringing souls to heaven and resurrecting the dead on earth are not the same thing.
Whereas they were dead they are now being raised to life, how is that not a resurrection?
>Furthermore, in Judaism souls go to "heaven" anyway.
Heaven is where G-d lives. In Judaism you still go to Sheol
>and thus Yeshua can't be the Jewish messiah.
Only if you make the assumption that He isn't.
>There are still few that carry the blood of David
Do we know who they are? Do they know who they are? I'm sure there are also still people with Saul's blood too, but the Davidic promise was that his line would be known.
>Please elaborate
"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”
Genesis 3:15
Through the cross His heel was bruised, and through the cross He destroyed the adversary's reign and unraveled his foul work

Who do you think Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 are about?

>>1931844
Thanks for that

Judaism pre-Temple and now are so radically different that I can't really take their claims seriously to be honest.

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>Try to find information on religious Jews and communism. That is, far-leftist movements similar to Christian Liberation theology or Islamic Socialism.
>Any google search with "Jews"/"Judaism" "communism"/"socialism" in the same sentence just pulls up /pol/

>>1932106
>Tell me, where is the House of David, if Jesus was not Messiah?
The greater question is where is the House of David if Jesus was the son of G-d and not Joseph.

>>1932636
> I won't do it again.
You ought to because your "answer" is not at all satisfying.
>Yes he did, and he continues to
He doesn't though. I don't see many dead people walking about.
>Whereas they were dead they are now being raised to life, how is that not a resurrection?
Because you will only believe they're alive in a very esoteric sense if you've already accepted Christianity. From the outside looking it it looks like he's done exactly nothing.

>. In Judaism you still go to Sheol
Jews don't really say very much about the afterlife.

>Only if you make the assumption that He isn't.
No, I'm making the quite obvious observation that he isn't.

>Do we know who they are?
Pretty much thanks to modern science.

>"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”
I don't think you're taking that passage literally enough. Because in case you haven't noticed real snakes bite at the heels and get trampled on.

>Who do you think Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 are about?
Psalm 22 is about suffering and the figures eventual deliverance by G-d.
Isaiah 53 is very plainly about the people of Israel.

>>1925365
Doesnt the lack of evidence for the events in Exodus kind prove it not to be a true faith?

>>1933944
Does the lack of historical evidence supporting the resurrection of Christ mean that Christianity isn't a "true faith"? Does the lack of evidence for Mohhammad's flying horse mean that Islam isn't a "true faith"? Does the lack of evidence for Emperor Jimmu's divine descent make Shintoism an "untrue faith"?

>>1933968
Well kind of yes, however the big difference is that Jews dont claim things like the 40 years in Sinai and the like were a miracle that that transcended natural laws.

>>1933753
Don't understand how this pertains to your argument.
Isn't it obvious that claiming this decent is a major legitimation claim that was used by imposters for ages?
Even European kings claim that they are related to David.
The official house of David that was actually recognized for thousands of years by its contemporaries including in Jesus times was rich and powerful just like the British monarchy is today. It had an important hereditary position as head of the exile that began with the last King Hezekaiah untill finally dissappearing in the middle ages.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exilarch?wprov=sfla1

>>1933741
Do you mean moder Judaism and Communism or historical sects that had communal ideology?
In general communism was viewd as an alternative ideology to ortodox Judaism. Communists are atheists as you know.

But there are those guys that never really rose to prominence but still exist:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Kibbutz_Movement?wprov=sfla1

>>1934350
>Don't understand how this pertains to your argument.
Because if Jesus' father isn't human he couldn't possibly be descended from David through his father.

>Isn't it obvious that claiming this decent is a major legitimation claim that was used by imposters for ages?
Yes. But I'm not sure where you're going with this.

>>1934359
>Do you mean moder Judaism and Communism or historical sects that had communal ideology?
I mean I noticed that there's Christians and Muslims that subscribe to radical leftist economics because they feel their religion endorses it so I was trying to find if Jews ever had something similar. Not really a sect, moreso regular political ideology rooted in theological beliefs.

I thought since the OT seems to pretty monarchist Judaism might be the odd man out of the Abrahamic religions here.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Kibbutz_Movement?wprov=sfla1
Yes, kind of like that. But that's more like early modern Christian utopians.

>>1934360
I'm not the Christian person you are arguing with.
Its just that your argument is very theological and based on interpreting scripture in different ways and I wanted to bring in some actual history into this.
Jesus was one of the many faction leaders that arose during that time to lead peacant rebellions and populist anti establishment and anti Roman moments. And he met exactly the same fate as they did.
He was obviously of a simple decent and it is only due to historical events that took place hundreds of years after his death that he became so famous.
He would probably be really mindfucked if he knew that his name was aporopriated by other nations, sometimes to persecute his own people and that he is worshipped as god.

>>1934372
Judaism is anyi monarchist actually. Kings are viewd as a human creation that is tolerated by god and was established against his prophets advice. If you view it in a historic context of 3000 years ago, the notion that king is just a human that is judged by the way he abides to the law is very revolutionary. Egyptian and Messopotamian cultures viewd the king as god.
There are a lot of passages in the bible that are used by modern left wing Israeli politicians to claim that social justice is part of our ancient culture. It is a widely accepted claim.

Judaism ceased to have Priests when the Temple fell and with them the original religion ceased.
The new stuff is just syncretist reaction as can be seen by how huge swathes of it is spent on rationalizing this rift with the past and how much of it is mere kneejerk rejection of Christian thought.

>>1934424
The religion evolved beyond primitivistic sacrifice worship. This evolution began with the Pharisis vs Zadokites schism well before the destruction of the temple. The Roman Jewish wars that lasted 100 years just put the end to this debate as 2 major factions that were temple centric lost political influence (Zaddokites and Zelots). After that the 2 remaining factions were Pharisis and Helenistic Judaism.
Christians weren't even prominent enough to argue with at that time. And their idea of trinity and saints worship is deeply paganistic and was probably developed much later when the Paul faction of Christianity started to spread to the pagan populations.

>>1934399
Hmm, very interesting.

I assumed since the Jewish idea of the messianic age outlines the messiah as king of Israel (if I'm not mistaken) and every righteous person is supposed to live forever this would essentially mean the Earth is going to be one giant monarchy forever.

>>1934463
>saints are "paganistic"
This coming from the "religion", or more truthfully ethnochauvinistic political vehicle, that believes in fortune-telling by numbers and other occultist bullshit.

>>1934473
Touchy.

theres literally nothing wrong with being jewish

>>1934483
Imagine that. People caring about religion for more than just short-term material gains.
Must be hard for anyone from the racial materialist-worshipping shambles that constitutes New Judaism.

>>1934473
>this comming from
I'm agnostic Israeli
>>1934472
This is really some echo of ancient politics. The idea of restoration of the house of David as kings that came down to this day along with the tribal federalism that opposed kingship (see Judges - guys that would be appointed to deal with crisis but not to rule permanently).
Modern research take on the meaning of the name Israel is ''Ruled by God''. The idea being that when asked who you are Israelites would identify themselfs in a contrarian way as tribes that are ruled by god and not like their historical neighbours who would be self identify as people of King X.
Religios Zionist founder Rav Kook interpret the disappearance of the annoited dynasty of David as meaning that the imperium right to rule has been returned to the people and all rules regarding the abidience to kings by the people and the kings duty to abide by certain biblical rules are now delegated to the democraticly ekected government. When the supposed messiah comes he will be the King as he is supernaturally just unlike any human form of government, especially a dictatorship.

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>>1934494
>Chr*stians are still THIS mad

>>1934494
Christian antisemitism is just the buthert of having the actual Jews not accepting your religious reform movement that is based on Judaism. There is something very unnerving about that lack of legitimacy for Christians so Jews must be explained away as evil and not legitimate.
Muhhamadeans have exactly the same issue with Jews.

>>1934505
This coming from the people who spends 80% of their commentary being butthurt about Christianity fulfilling the Messianic prophecies when judaism never did.
I find it hilarious how your "spiritual" leaders went out of their way to say that Mary, the Mother of God, was a harlot and that Jesus boils in eternity in excerment. Which they apparently "know" by virtue of sorcerous communing with the dead. Not pagan at all.
>>1934509
>Christian antisemitism
Stems from New Judaism being a bunch of materialists upset that the Messiah didn't bring their tribe, and their tribe only, silver and slaves rather than eternal life. (as is clear to anyone whose ever spoken with any of your orthodox believers)
>that lack of legitimacy for Christians
If we'd be upset about lack of legitimacy it would be the Hellene philosophical connection, Jewish writings is far too derivative (with 80% post-Exodus amounting to butthurt about Christianity) and filled with mutually exclusionary notions of what is Good and Truthful. (which imo comes down to having destroyed your Priesthood in favor of your Law-wranglers)

>>1934519
>Christianity fulfilling the Messianic prophecies
Yup, Jesus fulfilled them so good he doesn't even need to come back a second time to finish.

Oh wait, that's right. He didn't.

>>1934463
>>1934473
>>1934499
>>1934519
I don't really feel like getting involved in this argument but I kinda agree that jews shouldn't be throwing around slurs about paganism all willy-nilly in view of all the occultist mysticism surrounding certain rabbis and the kabbalah.

>>1926576
No he didn't. Checkmate, Christians.

>>1934539
Why not? I totally agree that there is a strong undercurrent of ocultism and ancient rabbi {name} worship especially in the uneducated masses of Judaism followers. That's exactly wgat happens when complex ideas go to the masses. They just get simplified to the lowest common denominator. Early Christianity or the part of it that went viral adopted a lot of pagan notions specifically so it can get as viral as possible and accumulate users.
Wile Judaism adopted an exclusive ''if you don't get it fuck off, messiah will rescue you anyway as long as you don't kill and pillage and it's our job to uphold the strictest purity laws to get the cosmic balance in order so the messiah comes and sorts up everything up''.
In the end you got a bunch of Barbarians adopting Christianity and somehow varping it's pacifistic message of ''turn the other cheek'' and ''all classes are equal'' to ''lets burn you at the stake'' and ''I'm nuch aristocrat that owns peasants''.
Literally like having Liberal death squads to murder people that do not respect human rights or something.

>>1926178
This is the type of shit ISIS fights about

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>>1934530
>>1934716
>>1934509
>>1934505
>>1933785
>yfw all these Jews completely ignore >>1932474

Why do Jews hate Daniel so much? He was a good mensch yet they don't even call him a prophet anymore. Gee...I wonder why...

pic unrelated

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>>1935412
>Picrelated
Doesn't permit having sex with a 3 year old. It discusses if sex with a child counts as sex with regards to the law or not. This has significance for other laws for example if the man declared an adulterer or is she considered a virgin etc.
>Daniel
Learned this book in an Israeli high school so wouldn't say he is forgotten. Have no idea where you are going with this, some autistic interpretation about how reading it with 5 letter skips on a diagramic line when looking on it backwards looks like face of Jesus?

Am I an anti-semite for being Pro-Palestine?

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>>1935659
Yes. Palestina is a name given to the region by Roman conquerors in an attempt to erase any memory of Judea. By using it you are complicit in the genocidal and cultural ethnic cleansing committed by a corrupt western empire against the native population.

The True Jews are the Black Americans

Ashkenazi Jews are fake white imposters descended from the Khazars

>>1935412

Daniel's 70 Week prophecy told the Jews the exact day the Messiah would show up.

Palm Sunday, Nisan 10, 32 AD. 483 years after Artexerxes decreed that the Temple could be rebuilt in 445 BC. Using prophetic 360 day years, and remembering there is no Year 0.

>>1935659

Of course. Supporting genocidal people is agreeing with them that their enemies need to be wiped off the map.

>>1935720
>Daniel's 70 Week prophecy told the Jews the exact day the Messiah would show up.

>Palm Sunday, Nisan 10, 32 AD
What the fuck is that? Some hybrid between a Jewish month calendar and Gregorian dates?

>483 years after Artexerxes decreed that the Temple could be rebuilt in 445 BC.
Who the fuck is Artexerxes? You mean Cyres the great? Both of them are not mentioned in the prophecy.

>Using prophetic 360 day years, and remembering there is no Year 0.
Nice autism, exactly as I predicted.

>>1935730
oh please

you guys arn't even the real jews...you are khazar converts...Ashkenazi Fake White Imposters

the true jews are the Blacks, Hispanics and Native Americans

>>1935764
Yes, it's a hybrid date because the Jews compressed the time of the Babylonian and Persian empires in the third century AD in order to skew their timeline by 243 years.

So it's not 5777, it's really 6020.

Artaxerxes Longimus is not Cyrus, no.

The prophecy speaks of the proclamation to rebuild the temple, which was done in March of 445 BC by Artaxerxes.

The prophetic, and Jewish, religious calendar has 360 days in it. Likely the actual years prior to the Flood had 360 days in them.

>>1935766
I'm not even pretending to be a Jew.

All I know is this.

In our future, the Elect, 144,000 young virgin men of 12 tribes of Israel, will preach the gospel during the Troubles of Jacob.

For them to exist now, or then, their ancestors exist now. I've never given any credibility to this khazar bullshit.

>>1935779
>Discard all accepted history, historical figures and dating and than you will clearly see that I'm right
Do you understand how this fagottry perceived by people that don't already share you believes? Probably not.

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>>1935659
No, there's nothing more antisemitic than Zionism.

>>1935710
This is true. I learned it from CK2.

Khazar Jews=imposters descended from Turks
Ethiopian Jews=true Israelites descended from Gideon and Solomon.

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>>1935885
If shit hit the fan, those Jews in your picture would be genocided/progromd/exiled like Jews living abroad often are, while the Israeli Jews would be safe.

If anyone is antisemitic, it's those who want to take away the Jewish Homeland.

And let's also not forget that a huge percentage of Israeli Jews are descended from the Mizrahi Jews that Arabs expelled, who would have no where to go without Israel.

>>1935885

wait there are actually Jew-cucks who don't want Israel as a state?

>>1935925
>who would have no where to go without Israel.
I'm not saying all Jews should get out and Palestine should hold all the land from the river to the sea.

I'm just saying that a lot of the things the state of Israel doesn't aren't very righteous and it's no crime not to support it.

>>1935937
Yes. More than you'd expect.

During the 1960s and before "religious Zionist" was essentially regarded as an Oxymoron. It's changed a bit since as more Jews have been born and lived their entire lives in Israel but lots of ultra-Orthodox Jews do indeed totally reject Israel.

>>1935944

but why, wouldn't it be like a catholic rejecting Vatican city or a Muslim rejecting Mecca ?

>>1935939
Such as?

There are multiple Arab states in the middle east. All of them have a similar language, are of the same race, are Muslim and have a similar culture. Jordanians and Palestinians are practically identical, in fact Jordan is actually a majority "Palestinian" state.

Yet there is only one Jewish state in the world, for a historically persecuted group, and still we are expected to give up more (emphasis on more) land to the Arabs?

For a bit of perspective, look what happened when Israel withdrew from Gaza. Fatah and Hamas had a civil war, threw people off of rooftops, destroyed everything the Israeli settlers had left behind, and then started war mongering with Israel.

Furthermore, if you believe that Israelis should withdraw from Judea and Samaria (the West Bank), I disagree. If the Jews did withdraw, we would have Gaza x10, not to mention that the land itself is the Judean heartland and very important to the Jewish people, arguably more important that the coastland.

>>1935957
These Jews believe that creating a Jewish state prior to the coming of the messiah is going against god's will. It also says in the Talmud that the Jews shouldn't rebel against the nations of the world to retake the land.

It's also worth noting that Zionism is basically a secular nationalist ideology, which they generally oppose.

>>1935979
There is such a thing as religious Zionism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Zionism

>>1933785
>From the outside looking it it looks like he's done exactly nothing.
You have believed, Thomas because you have seen. Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.

>>1935957
Because Judaism was very militant fanatic and fearcly independent which coused several huge wars, some successful like the rebellion against the Greeks and some with terrible consequences like the 3 Roman wars and another one with Byzantium. As a result the only ideology within Judaism that was able to survive was Rabinical Judaism that's all about concentrating on religion and waiting for the Messiah and not rebelling and taking to arms.
The Jews went from being a big (20%) and warlike population of Roman empire to small pacified population that became considered ''physically weak and intellectual''. Haredim resist modernity and change and so preserve this attitude.
But the oic with the really anti zionist haredim is a meme. Its a small faction called Neturei Carta.

>>1933785
>Isaiah 53 is very plainly about the people of Israel.
Did Israel take on all peoples' iniqiuties?

>>1935968
Actually I think there should be a one state solution where the entire land is federalized as something distinct from Israel or Palestine governed by a mandatory coalition.

As you said nothing good has come from Gaza for Israel. But nothing good has come from Israel for the Palestinians either.

>Such as?
Bombing civilian targets
Massacring innocent civilians.
Ethnic cleansing.

I fully support the Jew's right to exist. But this is a war with no moral high-ground.

>>1935987
I know, I'm talking about these specific anti-Zionist Jews that do so on a religious basis.

>>1936001
Yes historically Israel have suffered very much under many nations.

It's worth mentioning that on the count that Jesus lived a short life and died childless it couldn't possibly be describing him.
>he shall see his offspring
>he will prolong his days

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>>1936008
>I think there should be a one state solution

But why? The whole purpose of Israel is to have a Jewish majority state, the only in the world. Not to mention that both Israelis and Arabs are opposed to this, more so with the Arabs.

And like I said, there are multiple Arab Muslim states that the Palestinians can go to, especially Jordan.

>bombing civilian targets
>massacring innocent civilians

Bombing human shields does not count. We don't want to kill civilians, but at the same time we have an obligation to target the source of rocket attacks that endangers our own people. It's also not our responsibility if Palestinians decide to use themselves as human shields in order to go to heaven, and it's not our responsibility if Hamas chooses to fight in civilian clothing.

>ethnic cleansing

This is highly debatable. If Israel really wanted to cleanse Arabs then there certainly wouldn't be 2 million Israeli Arabs (non Palestinians) living in Israeli territory, and they certainly wouldn't have handed control of Gaza and parts of Judea and Samaria over to the Palestinian Authority after taking the land back from Jordan and Egypt.

And let's not forget that when the Arab generals invaded Israel during the war of independence, they wanted to create a massacre, in their words, on a scale that one would expect of the Mongols. And let's not forget that it was the Palestinians that rejected the UN referendum for the original two state solution while the Jews accepted it.

>>1936052
>The whole purpose of Israel is to have a Jewish majority state,
I don't think states should subscribe to such nationalist ideology either. Fundamentally the purpose of a state should be to make people's lives better.

> Not to mention that both Israelis and Arabs are opposed to this, more so with the Arabs.
I know, if they weren't opposed to it then it would already be the case. I can't make them agree with me, I'm just saying I think it's the only solution for peace that doesn't involve continued ethnic cleansing.

Although at one point the PLO did endorse a similar idea.

>And like I said, there are multiple Arab Muslim states that the Palestinians can go to, especially Jordan.
But that's not their home. There's more to life than just "being Arab", they've lived their entire lives on that land and it'd be a tragedy to have to abandon it to live somewhere were they don't have to fear getting killed by the Israeli state.

Similarly I'm sure you're opposed to Arab nationalists saying Jews should go to America or something.

>Bombing human shields does not count.
Israel were literally bombing shelter for refugees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israeli_shelling_of_UNRWA_Gaza_shelters

>This is highly debatable.
It is not at all debatable because that exact thing happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus

>And let's not forget that when the Arab generals invaded Israel during the war of independence, they wanted to create a massacre
I fully agree with you on this point and the following points. To repeat myself I'm not arguing that Palestinians have the moral high ground here.

>>1936117
I find it very hard to argue with you in a serious manner, as you are against a Jewish state from the get go and thus it all seems redundant. So forgive me if I don't reply to you after this, but I do appreciate the fact that you were respectful and pleasant.

>although at one point the PLO did endorse a similar idea

Yes, the same PLO that blew up Israeli school busses, killed Israeli athletes, and massacred school kids. Who would ever want to be in the same state as these textbook terrorists?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization

Here are just some examples of their "work"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avivim_school_bus_bombing

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27alot_massacre

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Road_massacre

>Israel were literally bombing shelter for refugees

Rockets and weapons were being sheltered there by the "innocent" refugees or Hamas.

"On three separate occasions, on 16 July,22 Julyand on 29 July, UNRWA announced that rockets had been found in their schools."

This is once again the fault of the Palestinians. If we need to be mad at someone, we should be mad at Hamas and the wannabe martyrs.

>it is not at all debatable because that exact thing happened

Some of those towns mentioned, such as Haifa, have huge Arab populations today. Many Palestinians left other places for fear of Israeli retribution after their own attacks against Jewish settlements.

Hell, in Israel proper, 20.7% of people are Arab. Any large scale ethnic cleansing or genocide of Israeli Arabs is a myth.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haifa

We must also remember that the war of independence was a war after all, and there were small scale massacres on both sides.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre

>to repeat myself, I'm not arguing that Palestinians have the moral high ground there

Thank you, I appreciate your honesty.

>>1936258
>So forgive me if I don't reply to you after this, but I do appreciate the fact that you were respectful and pleasant.
Thank you.

>Yes, the same PLO that blew up Israeli school busses, killed Israeli athletes, and massacred school kids. Who would ever want to be in the same state as these textbook terrorists?
I'm not supporting the PLO. I'm pointing out that historically a similar concept has been considered by Palestinians.

>Rockets and weapons were being sheltered there by the "innocent" refugees or Hamas.
If you read further you'll find this
> All of these schools were vacant at the time when rockets were discovered; no rockets were found in any shelters which were shelled
Of the schools bombed by the IDF none of them were the schools with rockets. With this in mind it's indefensible that the IDF left 56 innocent people dead with the justification of rockets that simply weren't there.

>We must also remember that the war of independence was a war after all, and there were small scale massacres on both sides.
Absolutely, it was a very horrible war. But none the less it's important to acknowledge the reality and indeed the gravity of it. As you said there were massacres on all sides. And in many cases these seem to amount to ethnic cleansing.

>>1935939
oyy veyy you antisemite. you wants anudda shoah

>>1936021
That's not what taking on sin means.

>>1936709
"taking on sin" was not what the suffering servant was describing at any point.

>>1928170
Modern Hebrew.

Hey do you have a link to your updated paste bin? worried I might loose contact if this 404s

>>1937207
What are your methods of learning?

I've been learning modern Hebrew for about 7 months now, and I wouldn't say it's too hard but definitely harder than germanic languages. I don't have experience with romance languages but it's probably harder than them as well.