Was Prussia the greatest mistake in European history?

>>1924648
You mean Germany is general.

no. russian revolution was.

>>1924681
This.

>>1924648
>the province that united Germany is no longer part of Germany
they deserved it desu

>>1924681
no.

Letting Lenin out of Prison was.

Whites winning the revolution and setting up a republic with elected officials would have been good thing. The Imperial family might have survived as figure heads like England or exiled to England.

>>1924648
No, Prussia generally stayed in line until the 1850s. Otto von Bismarck and Germany was the problem.

>>1924702
retard

>>1924725
>Bismarck
>Problem
The guy worked towards a balance between the great powers his whole life.

>>1924648
Prussia was the one to finally stop Napoleon. (The meme about the English winning Waterloo is bullshit. They should have committed troops during the first coalition.)

The worst thing to happen to Europe is either the dissolution of the HRE, or the juden diaspora, or the swedes losing Poltava, or gavelkind succession, or the Muslim invasions, or the Huns or the Mongols, or the division of the 17 provinces, or the dissolution of the Kalmar union

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>>1924648
No.

these 3 are.

>>1924770
Bismark Model health care.

>>1924783
lenin and santa claus X2 ?

>>1924797
no beard no true gommie 2bh

>>1924719
No, anyone paying attention to Marx was.

>>1924770
This

>>1924648
Yes.

t. Eberhardt Bienzle

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>>1924725
>Bismarck
His purpose was to make Germany a continental power, whilst keeping the balance of power in Germany.

>>1925186
In europe*

No, letting the ottomans take Constaninople was.

I know it probably would have fell at some point, but if it didn't it would be neat to have the Roman empire still existing

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>>1924648
Yes.

If Catholicshits could have stayed away from the glorious free Baltic none of this would have happened.

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>>1925195
Why does everyone love the Byzantines?

>>1925195
The Roman empire does exist, it's called the Republic of Turkey.

>>1925206
Swag.

Not to say that the Ottomans weren't also fresh as fuck.

Maybe not the greatest mistake, but a big fucking mistake nonetheless.

It's almost unthinkable now, but Germany was once known as a land of laid-back, fun-loving peaceful people whose attachment to local liberties made life hell for any central government.

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>>1925230
Germany is the dominant force in Europe since its unification regardless of its lost wars, which sincerely amazes me.

>>1925256
The dominant force in Europe is the United States. Germany is an occupied country, a glorified protectorate.

>>1925264
Europe could turn on us anytime they want, idk if thats much of an occupation if they have the power to assert their independence

>>1925256
Russia was the dominant force in Europe between 1945 and 1991. Assuming we don't include America by virtue of it not being in Europe.

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>>1924648
This board was a mistake

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>>1925272
You underestimate the extent of American underground activities in Europe.

When Charles de Gaulle began making France more independent, when he broke with NATO military structure and began billateral talks with the Soviet Union, guess what happened? A typical color revolution, led by a known CIA asset, also known as "May 68".

If any European country tried to turn against the U.S., the networks of NGOs and agents would activate and the government wouldn't last much.

>>1925291
lol I remember that... I thought it was just french young people being french

>>1925291
?

that was a leftist revolution

it didn't even accomplish anything

>>1925300
I think they accomplished destroying Paris or something

>>1925300
The Soviets and the communists hated the whole thing, while the CIA loved and saw it as an opportunity to get rid of De Gaulle.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/paris-provoked-cia-and-kgb-alarm-1.150999

Here Alain Soral also speaks of May 1968 as the first "color revolution"

http://greater-europe.org/archives/1078

The whole thing was fishy, if you google "Daniel Cohn-Bendit CIA" there are some rumours, but nothing established.

>>1924648
No. That would be the European Union.

>>1924648
It was certainly the greatest mistake in polish history, and that's a title with a whole lot of competition.

God damn Prussia was amazing. The world didn't deserve that kind of awesome. Unfortunately it burnt too bright.

>>1925305
>>1925338
>>1925300
WTF guys, Alain Soral is a crazy revisionnist, atisemitistic and complotist of extreme-right.

May 68 consisted in several strikes and demonstrations led by student movement. The students and the workers claimed changes in educational system and the independence of the television, at this time totally controlled by the ORTF, a governement agency.

Germans were the greatest mistake in human history. All they touch turns to shit.

>>1925197
>Prussian Protestants are the fault of Catholicism! XDD

Heathens really are this retarded

>>1925853
Anglos are already shit though.

>>1924648
no that would be belgium

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>made the world so asshurt that the entire concept of prussia was outlawed

>>1925195
The Byzantines fucked themselves up, with all their coups, betrayals and regicides. Had they been a little bit more rational they would have been able to resist any attack on the city. Just before the 4th crusade the imperial navy had been dismantled down to the last nail by the Emperor's in-laws for their own personal gain.

The problem started when Saxons crossed the sea to breed with Anglo women while their men watched helplessly on, creating the true menace of Europe, the Anglo-Saxon.

>>1925855
I think he is hinting towards the Teutonic Order...

>>1924648
>half of Germany got to be labelled with the name of a region with an extinct people that had nothing to do with Germans

You just can't make this up.

>>1924725

Does /his/ or any of the other Anglophiles/Francophiles on here know the difference between Wilhelm and Bismarck?

>>1924648
Yes.

t. Average /his/ fag

>>1925338
Yeah the CIA would love you to think that.

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>>1924648
Britain and Austria pulling strings in 1814-1814 so that Prussia would get the Rhineland-Westphalia so it would be right next to France and always be drawn in a conflict with it.

Prussia just wanted all of Saxony right next to it, which was also entirely protestant just like them.
Instead they got the region that had huge coal deposits and would become the industrial heartland of Europe, the Rhine as strategic transport route in Western Europe and a common border with France.
This meant that had to keep their focus on the military and they had to support thing like the Customs Union so they would keep communication between their lands, and some eventual conquest to fully unify them.

All these things were key factors that lead to 1871 and WWI.

If they just had been given Saxony, Prussia would have remained a far less relevant kingdom in Eastern Germany, more like a Protestant Bavaria with some Poles in it rather than a Great power.
Rhineland-Westphalia should have been given to some other German prince.

>>1924681
That ended badly for the whole world. If the Russian Revolution hadn't happened, fascist leaders would have lost the major fear propaganda of Communism, and may not have been able to rise to power. Plus so many fucking Russians die.

>>1926264
Bismarck was a pragmatic and super effective diplomat. Wilhelm was an idiot who hated Bismarck because daddy liked Bismarck more and screwed up everything Bismarck had done right.

>tfw Prussia only survived because of one manchild tsar

>>1924648
ITT: autistic frogs blame GERMany for everything

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>>1925175
>>1925197
>>1925785
>>1926292
t. bavarians

>HRE is dismantled
>German Confederation is formed
Fucking germans.

>>1926254
Holy shit I thought I was the only one thinking this.

>>1926648
Prussians were the same people as poles.

>>1924783
t. Shlomo Shekelstein from ufa who got his bank closed in 1917

>>1927026
how so

>>1927057
maybe because majority of population was of polish oirigin?

maybe because prussia was registered as a slavic kingdom a the congress of vienna?

maybe because a lot of prussians had polish surnames?

>>1927026
They were 'originally' a Slavic tribe/sub-group, but were heavily 'Teutonized', or Germanified from the middle ages onwards. Like most places and cultures, there is a gradient from region to region, seldom stark lines of total difference. Much with the Prussians. They were protestant German-speakers, and that's kind of what matters most, but their origins were ethnically mixed, including some Slav and Balt.

>>1927061
Claiming them as Polish is revisionary and nationalistic. No doubt you're Polish or a Polaboo. They were Prussian, but (some of) their surnames reflected the fact of their partial Slav origins. The more low or base peasant the origins, the more likely they'd have a Slav (or Balt) name.

>>1926460
>Bismarck was a pragmatic and super effective diplomat.
Bismarck led to German loss of Poznan and all of Prussia once he started the efforts to destroy Polish people which had the opposite effect. As a result the Polish national movement was born that 50 years later led successful uprisings against Prussian/German rule in Greater Poland and Silesia.

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>>1927084
>The more low or base peasant the origins, the more likely they'd have a Slav (or Balt) name.
Funny, considering the fact that polish nobility made up 15% of population, whilst german only 1%,
No, I'm not polish. I'm just against german revisionsim.

>It is not well known that barely a century ago, Prussia, with its then predominantly Slav population, was not considered a German state at all; though its kings, who as princes of Brandenburg were ‘Electors’ of the German Empire, were considered German princes. At the Congress of Vienna, Prussia was registered as a ‘Slav kingdom’; and in 1830 Hegel still spoke52 even of Brandenburg and Mecklenburg as being populated by ‘Germanized Slavs’.

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>>1927099

If we look at Prussian census data from immediately after the Congress of Vienna, we see that East Prussia was 2/3 German speaking and 1/3 Lithuanian, Masurian and others. Btw, your map was created in paint by some forum user, I wouldn't take it too seriously. It ignores the dominance of the German language in the towns of the Lithuanian and Masurian part of E. Prussia. In the Prussian state as a whole, the German language was the dominant one since the inception of the Duchy of Prussia. And while it is true that the Brandenburgers are a mix of Wends and Germans, this does not equal them being Poles.

>No, I'm not polish.

sure


pic is an english source on German being the most common in Prussia in 1800: A Geographical, Historical, and Political Description of the Empire of Germany, Holland, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Prussia, Italy, Sicily, Corsica and Sardinia, Stockdale, 1800

from google books

ITT:People who never read Marx, or never read Marx beyond the menifesto

>>1927479
speaking German doesn't mean you don't have polish bloond in you.

the soviet union

>>1925907
Europe couldn't handle the Hohenzollern banter

Real question, is there a state with a better history of rulers than Prussia? I mean aside from two bad ones (Frederick William II and Wilhelm II) and one iffy one (Frederick William III) it's more or less a procession of good to great rulers going back to the Great Elector.

>>1925215
>t. Mexmedius

>>1924719
>The Imperial family might have survived as figure heads
I don't believe a revolution is necessary for this. The Duma was already a thing, and while ineffective, real progress was being made.

There simply should've been a relatively painless transition to a constitutional monarchy via force through the army.

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Prussia's greatest mistake was becoming Germany

>>1925206
they weren't turks

>>1926192
>The problem started when Saxons crossed the sea to breed with Anglo women
???

>>1924648
Yes it was
t. German

>>1932598
Just goes to show how stupid the anti Anglo posters are

>>1932627
Really makes me think

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reminder that poland is a meme country that has always had to have its ass saved by someone else for no good reason at all.

the biggest mistake the soviets made after ww2 was not expelling the entirety of poland to siberia forever

>>1934453
This.

>poland survives the holocaust
>becomes suuuuuuper antisemitic under communism
>becomes a free country when the iron curtain falls
>prospering economy, great relations with germany
>benefitting greatly from the EU
>population elects the primitive nationalists
>relations with germany, EU and the NATO are getting worse really quick
>pooland is AGAIN maneuvering in a situation where germany and russia are hostile

Just kill them at this point tbqh.

>>1926451
No. Mussolini didn't get in power because >muh gommunism. Hitler did, though.

>captcha is a street sign with G. Mazzini written on it
Coincidence?

>>1927479
>East Prussia was 2/3 German speaking and 1/3 Lithuanian, Masurian and others.
Does German in this case include both Low German and Standard German?

>>1926254
yeah it really makes you think

>>1934638
Nato loves Poland because they are one of the few members with an army that isn't a complete joke

>>1924783
Who's the guy in the middle?

>>1932781
reductio*

>>1936383
Friedrich "We can reach muh socialism thro democracy" Engels

>>1934453
This
Poland is literally a meme country

>>1924719
Shipping him back to Russia and financing his revolution with Imperial German money was a mistake, not that.

>>1924648
The Polish refusal to completely annihilate it's predecessor could be considered the greatest mistake in European history.

>>1934638
Germany which has a law strictly limiting foreign media in Germany owns at least 80 % of all media in Poland and only a little bit lesser percentage of Polish banks, supermarkets, industry, if you call this "good relations" then you're a blighted moron. Also, their economic growth was unprecedentedly larger before they've joined the EU.

>ass saved by someone else for no good reason at all.

A country that dates back to the 9th century is a meme country to you?

>>1938011
>9th century
There was no Poland in 9th century.

>>1938017
It was, but it was formally acknowledged as a legitimate and "Christian" state only after it's Christianization.

>>1927479
>Prussian census data
kek

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>>1927026
>>1927061
>>1927099
/thread

>>1938148
It wasn't Poland.

>>1938017
>>1938158
The first ruler and founder of Lechia (pre-christian Poland) is dated back to the 6th century

PRUSSIA IS POLISH
GERMANY IS POLISH
RUSSIA IS POLISH
DANZIG IS POLISH
CONSTANTINOPLE IS POLISH
AUSTRIA IS POLISH
CZECH ARE POLISH

>>1938171
It's a legendary ruler and there is no proof of his existence. The official history starts with Mieszko I.

>>1938189
>there is no proof
yes there are proofs

>official history
mate pls

>>1938153
>this triggers the stormfag

>>1938193
>yes there are proofs
Like? Name your sources.

>>1938176
CAPS LOCK IS POLISH

>>1938217
Chronicles from all over Europe. Mainstream Polish "historians" pretend they don't exist/are irrelevant because they're very uncomfortable for some people

>>1938268
What chronicles? Names? Where can I read them?

>pretend they don't exist/are irrelevant
It's probably true.