Confucianism destroyed China. Discuss.

Care to explain?

is this what hitler wanted?

>>1903984
well argued and detailled

here's your masters of internet argueing

>>1903984
>Confucianism made China
FTFY

>>1903984
性相近也,习相远也。

>>1903984
confucianism is china

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Cultural revolution saved Middle Country
/discuss

Communists infiltrated in the U.S. State Department allowed the communists to win.

Discuss.

>>1904372
>communists winning
sen me

I'm right and you're wrong.
Discuss.

>>1904372
Ahhh yes surely you have proper evidence of this

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>>1904357
Truly a vast improvement over the old culture

>>1904397

>Verona project declassified 11 years ago
>faggots like you still exist

>>1903984
On one hand it brought stability to a warlike environment

on the other it usually prevents much needed reforms and development from happening

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>>1903984
>China will never have its hundred schools again

>>1903984
that's like saying burritos destroyed mexico

>>1903984
Daily reminder Confucianists BTFO Marx millenia before he existed.
>MUH LABOR VALUE.
"“If a fine shoe and a shoddy shoe are the same price, will anyone make the former?”"
>MUH WORKERS SHOULD HANDLE THE GOVERNMENT & ECONOMY
"hen the same philosopher suggests that rulers and government officials should farm the land, just like their subjects, Mencius draws an analogy with other crafts: just as the potter, blacksmith, and farmer each benefit by focusing on his craft and exchanging goods with the others, so does everyone benefit when good rulers and officials focus on their own activities in exchange for financial support from the other members of society (3A4)"

>>1905694
yeah but how do you get the good ruler? It seems for every good ruler china had there were a dozen worthless cretins.

>>1904372

that's bullshit and you know it

everyone knows communism never wins

>>1904261
>>1904258
Not him, but perhaps he's arguing that in worshipping stability and order, Confucianism doomed China to the inertia it experienced while the Europeans were growing in strength?

China has risen and fallen many times in its history.

Why would you define all of China as a failure for about 300 years of decline?

>>1906680
Then what about the rest of history, before 1700, when China was ahead of Europe?

>>1906680
Sounds like whig history to me.

As much as I hate linear history, I will use to to combat the very view of China it presupposes. By linear standards, China was never "stagnant." historically. It was "slow." Non of the east Asians were, even Isolated as fuck Japan. They kept pace with the developments of the world albeit in a slower level for various fucking reasons.

If anything, using the Whig logic, China shouldve shot lightyears ahead because they achieved & maintained centralization. Well that is not true either.

>>1903984
Buddhism destroyed China. Discuss.

>>1906700
the Qing dynasty were shit and so were the kumintang, that's how

>>1906708
>>1906713
Guys, guys, that wasn't my opinion, but rather his or what I was presuming it to be.

Sadly, I don't have the knowledge to debate what might be OP's views considering how little I would know of Chinese history. Hopefully the OP might return and sort this out.

>>1906748
I know.

But you sound like you invited to discuss OP's question so I took it off from you.

According to Trump, China is doing pretty well.

>>1906778
I think most people acknowledge that.

>>1905694

You are citing the concept of labor specialization, however without freedom of movement of labor the arrangements are likely to be sub-optimal, like with Justinian's a baker's son must become a baker deal.

But there's another side to Confucian economics, it means the govt should support the small farmer as they are the basis of the tax revenue and military levy. Other empires thought the same way, notably the East Roman empire. Typically speaking, when speculation and consolidation enrich a privileged few, and those privileges are combined with ability to avoid taxes, it causes the destruction of empire, by introducing rival power bases and that power exempting them from the common enterprise. I find it hilarious that thisprevalent notion among historians is so little cited in debates such as this outside of pure history texts.

As usual I cite my extensive reading with the apprehension that it will be challenged by someone who simply has not read thoroughly enough and believes their own lack of study to somehow disprove the assertion.

See Wang Mang for Confucian land redistribution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Mang (it's pretty damn biased but let's assume we're all capable of reading between the lines)

Confused was so dumb lol

>[2:3] Confucius said: “If you govern the people legalistically and control them by punishment, they will avoid crime, but have no personal sense of shame. If you govern them by means of virtue and control them with propriety, they will gain their own sense of shame, and thus correct themselves.”

>[3:5] The Master said: “The tribes of the East and North, though having kings, are not equal to our people, even when lacking kings,”

>>1906869

This makes sense though. Look at how many black people are in jail and executed, and yet they still commit crime. But if you go to some small town in Canada, people leave their doors unlocked and there is no crime. Clearly virtue is not a function of justice.

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>>1903984
>tfw no hyper-capitialist Taoist China to BTFO the Romans
Confucius was a mistake

>>1907024
How did my sarcasm manage go over your head?

mao had the mandate of heaven

>>1906778
>>1906785
Chinese businesses are but certainly not Chinese common people

My opinion is that Confucianism is a pretty decent humanist philosophy that helped China end feudalism over 1500 years before the West by replacing the aristocracy with a bureaucracy. The problem was when the bureaucratic class subsequently stagnated by baseing the official exams on ONLY reading Confucian texts.

The real problem was the "intellectuals" who came out of the May 4th Movement and went full retard with "Let's destroy every aspect of our culture and copy everything from the West".

>>1907501
The coastal cities are doing really well and prosperity is spreading inland, in general the situation is improving exponentially, they managed to pull half of their population out of poverty in the last decade or so.

>>1903984
China has a weird way of fucking itself over, only to return to prominence, and then start fucking itself over again. It's a cycle usually purveyed by itself. There are only a few instances, such as the Opium Wars, where outside nations played a large part in China's evolution.

So yeah OP, you're kind of right.

Communism destroyed China. Discuss

>>1903984
Not totally unfounded, yet not accurate.

Confucianism the root of the east asian problem to be an individual, be creative and be innovative. It's one of the explaination, if not THE explaination, why the asian culture copies everything considering goods and technology.

In Confucianism everything has its place and order and nothing's changing. The emperor has to obey the heavens, the minister the emeror, the small county bureaucrat the minister, the kids the parents, a.s.o.

It's a pretty reactionary philosophy, that has no room for the single genius. It's soo deeply rooted, you can't critize you boss or even insert a genuine idea originate from your own creativity. They learn from books, but they can't solve a new problem that hasn't been described in a book.

Confucianism is long overdue of being discarded as a philosophy - it has hurt the asian culture in their development long enough.

>>1908185
I'm no Communist or Maoist, but Mao brought China into the modern world kicking and screaming.

>>1904357
Dat filename hahaha

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cultural revolution /great leap forward made china great again

>>1903984

I'm not sure if that dog looks comfy or terrified. I hope its comfy.

>>1903984
confucianism is static and progress of time killed it.