Bismarck, Misunderstood hero or sympathetic villain?

>>1899453
Definetely the latter. I can respect his personality, but he was a monster.

>>1899453
Understood hero

>>1899472
t. butthurt frog

>>1899485
Bismarck is my political idol. One of the Greats of the 19th centuary(the other being Napoleon.)
I'm bulgarian, btw. He did my country no favours, I just respect the bastard.

>>1899453
He might not have been a good man, but was certainly a great man.

>>1899453

Fucking fat ass oppurtunist.

Bismarck was not a monster or the forerunner to Nazism. In his twilight years, he was very proud and content of the prosperity and cultural/technological achievements of the Second Reich. However, he regretted deeply in giving the Emperor too much power when he saw how dangerously short-sighted Wilhelm II was. Not to mention the cabal of morons that surrounded the emperor.

Before the Franco-Prussian War, it was the French who were usually the aggressor against the German states in the last 150 years. It was wrong for Bismarck to engineer several wars against Denmark, Austria, and France so that the German states could unify with Prussia, but at the time, it seemed like it was a good idea. The Revolutions of 1848 failed and conservatism was still deeply rooted in German monarchies.

Even at his worst, Bismarck did not like the jack-booted march that Germany was heading into after his retirement. He was a reactionary but not a radical. He always knew when to stop; his successors didn't. If there was a politican of Bismarck's caliber in the early 20th century, much of the Balkans conflict and the messy relations with Russia, Austria, France, and Britain would've been contained.

I also note that the Eulenburg scandal is what indirectly contributed to the idiocy of German diplomacy from the 1890's to the 1910's. The men who were implicated in this scandal were also the ones who could cultivate good relations with foreign nations. Their replacements were hard-headed militarists who thought saber-rattling and threats were the best way for Germany to win friends and allies. The Kaiser and his circle genuinely wanted the United States to be sympathetic to German interest since they were alarmed at its rise and didn't want another major power to be pissed at them.
Unfortunately, German bungling in Latin America repulsed a lot of goodwill that the Kaiser and his ambassador Hermann Speck von Sternburg tried to cultivate with Theodoore Roosevelt.

>>1899453

An absolute fucking legend.

One of my favourites.

>>1899588

True. Wasn't as delusional as Hitler, knew when to stop.

Apparently he had a great sense of humour.

He along with Nestor Mahkno are top blokes in my book.

he is a genius that led to the unification of the greatest european country of all time

>>1899588
>Unfortunately, German bungling in Latin America repulsed a lot of goodwill that the Kaiser and his ambassador Hermann Speck von Sternburg tried to cultivate with Theodoore Roosevelt.
What did the germans do in latin america? I know nothing about this

>>1899766
Wanted to test the Monroe Doctrine because they saw Latin America as the only viable place for German imperialism left. The best of Asia and Africa were already taken while Latin America had tons of German immigrants.

>>1899453
I'd have gladly assassinated this motherfucker but I respect him. To paraphrase his own words it's not his fault it's just his nature.

>>1899453
Total hero
Read about how hard he had to work to prevent the Kaiser from doing stupid shit and how hard he tried to preserve balance of power

>>1899453
truly one of the greats

>>1899588
>One evening after dinner, chief of the Military Secretariat Dietrich von Hülsen-Haeseler was performing a pas seul dressed in a woman's ballet tutu when his heart failed and he died. Ottokar von Czernin, also in attendance, remarked, "In Wilhelm II, I saw a man who, for the first time in his life, with horror-stricken eyes, looked upon the world as it really was."

>>1899904
Fuck your British shit. There's a reason why more than 12 nations became independent after WWI. It couldn't last.

>>1899947
If Bismarck had still been alive WWI would never have even happened.

>>1899453
Even in a pseudo-race with a genetic pool as hopelessly polluted as the Germans there is still a chance for the birth of the kind of prodigy that only appears once every thousand years.

>>1899490
This

>>1900083
Is there a reason why you people are so insecure about yourselves that you have to shitpost on the Internet?

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>>1899453
Hero, along with Louis-Napoleon

One of my biggest wonders is what these two fellows talked about

>>1899453
Total piece of shit

>I hate krauts who disagree with me but I hate other countries even more.
Truly a genious

>>1900650
He was but he appeals to authoritarian-loving Americans because he's some sort of a symbol.
He was something to admire from afar. A horrible person overall but at least he disliked socialists. But by thinking about destroying Catholicism and other nations (by assimilation unless that didn't work) he made the way for more conflicts.

>>1900736
A united Protestant led germany achieved such technological and economic progress, it became the most powerful nation in europe.

>>1899731

>one a master statesman who forged an empire
>one an alcoholic who killed a bunch of mennonites

>>1899453
A cuck

>>1900736
The Social Democratic Party did nothing wrong.

>>1900645
bitches and hoes

>>1900805
They wished. Although Bismarck probably ensured that Germany got as many African colonies as it could.

>>1901875
Not quite true, Bismark wanted the french to let off some stream in Africa after Naoolean III got buttfucked by the Germans. He considered colonisation unimportant compared to gaining hegemony in Europe (he regretted this policy later) which is why they were so late to the Africa game.

"I hate Germans but I hate Europeans more."

t. Bismarck

>>1900240
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY

Welcome to /his/.

>>1902176
That's a actually a misquote. He actually said "I hate krauts who disagree with me but I hate other countries even more."

This is a history board, get your facts straight.

>>1900645
Napoleon:
>MON DIEU I GIVE UP, PLZ DON'T TUE MY MEN
Bismarck
>K gimme your saber frogking

>>1899453
Intelligent, Nihilistic and with a Wicked Sense of Humor

>>1903793
That sounds more like a shitty fucking tv villain.

I didn't realize anyone disliked him

>>1900240
/his/ is filled with butthurt French and Eastern Europeans, which is why the board is in dire need of some flags so we get a better idea who the shitposters are.

>>1899453
He's just a conservative guy who was really good at diplomacy

>>1899453
Insidious. Petty. Presumptuous. Cowardly.

Gore Vidal called Abraham Lincoln the Bismarck of America for forging the modern centralized nation state out of the US Civil War.

So...i dunno lol.

>>1899588
>Bismarck did not like the jack-booted march that Germany was heading into after his retirement. He was a reactionary but not a radical. He always knew when to stop; his successors didn't.
Good point

Dismissed when Germany and Europe needed him the most.

A 19th century Henry Kissinger. A true pragmatic reactionary.

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>>1902961

Recommend me good books about Bismarck /his/

>>1906851
The Bible

If Bismarck is basically the German version of George Washington.

Why didn't he crown himself emperor? He was obviously the man pulling the strings.

>>1906851
Bump

>>1907539

1) Bismarck is not at all the German version of George Washington.
2) George Washington did not "crown himself emperor" either.

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>>1906458
You called?

>>1908870
Clever.

Out of curiosity do you criticize WW from the right or from the left?

>>1899588
>However, he regretted deeply in giving the Emperor too much power

The problem with this, was that it was how he implemented a lot of what he wanted. His big ideological stand was that he was the vassal to the Emperor and he could always play the Emperor card when he wanted to back up his agenda. He would always state that he served at the pleasure of the Emperor, until the Emperor decided that he wasn't needed anymore, and was starting to look like he wanted to engineer a constitutional crisis to get rid of the Reichstag altogether.

>>1899785
I thought they were talking about the Zimmerman Telegram and how that brought the US into the war.

>>1899904
The problem was that his schemes were so intricate, that only someone of his talents could ever hope to hold it together. And he never really trained his subordinates so they could rise up after he left and keep things going. They were more pawns in his schemes, and he punished harshly those he saw were showing too much independence.

>>1899952
I wouldn't be so sure. Not exactly how it was, and he couldn't have lived to 1914 obviously. However, in his later years as Chancellor, he was getting more and more aggravated and more and more willing to use force, especially on his own people. During the miners' strike in 1890, he was beginning to think that since the princes came together and made the German Empire, they could break it apart and come back together without the Reichstag. After that he was willing to use deadly force to put people down. He wasn't the same Bismark as in the Bulgarian crisis, and others as well.

>>1900805
Kek, that was the British

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>>1906851

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>>1908227

More about the time period between 1866-1945 Germany, but Bismarck is prominent in the first 200 pages of it since he was the man who united Germany and was the main policy driver during the time.

>>1908234
Neither did Bismarck

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>>1899453
Is definitely one of my favorite political figures of the nineteenth century.

Did my undergrad thesis paper on him and the 1848 revolution.

Pic somewhat related. And yes, I know the name's fucked up.

>>1909578
Thanks!

Do both books go in deph into his personality, schemes, etc?

>>1911493
The biography one does, the first one. It's critical of Bismarck, but doesn't bend him over the table. Apparently, it gives credit where credit is due, but does paint him as a hypochondriac at times. Apparently, at times when stress got too much for him to handle he would go on what would now be called sick leave and recoup. Then he would go back to work and get shit done.

>>1911491
welcome

Statesman in the truest sense of the word. There's no moral judgement applicable.

>>1911732
He's only human after all...Thanks! I'll make sure to get it as soon as I can!

>>1914684
It's a good book

ITT: Absolute GOATs

>Bismarck
>Caesar
>Octavian Augustus
>Mehmed II
>Enrico Dandolo
>Gustav Adolph
>Frederick II
>Jogaila
>Napoleon Bonaparte
>Catherine II

>>1899453
Overrated. A decent, competent leader, but not the absolute political genius he is made out to be

>>1916292
>t. prussia pro

>>1902932
>>1902176
Source?

>>1916369
Yeah I can't find it either