What if the Soviet Union joined the Axis?

>>1896053
We'd all be speaking German and Russian right now

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>>1896053

>soviet
>a communist party joining a party which despised communism

That's the equivalent of a black man making an alliance with the KKK, or a lion making an alliance with a gazelle

this isnt a historical question

>>1896066
When why did Stalin enter the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact? Why did he not expect an invasion from Hitler? Why did he dismiss British intelligence reports? Why did he sale or lend on credit huge amounts of food and raw materials to germany?

You know it's funny considering Gobels made an appeal to the Soviets in the last days to get them to accept a conditional surrender, as Gobels said nazi Germany would be a valuable buffer satellite state against the "degenerate western capitalist nations".

>>1896091
Didn't he also make a similar appeal to the western allies?

>>1896098
Did he? Considering the Soviets were in Berlin and the Americans weren't I can only imagine him trying with the Soviets.

Why did the other Allies allow Stalin and Hitler to divide up Eastern Europe?

>>1896053

no lend lease monies, instead has reichmarx.

Britain is overrun by slavshits coming over in canoes. America just drops the bomb, and then keeps on dropping.

omg America becomes even more bamph. Unless Hitler/Stalin can cooperate to get their hands on the atom bomb first, the V2 was made for that shit.

>>1896136
>allow
What where they going to do? Declare a war with two major world powers, Russia and Germany at the same time? Do you really think the western powers could have won? If Germany was only fighting a war on one front and had Russia instead of Japan and Italy as it's ally?

>>1896053
they did
USSR and 3rd reich was BFF

>>1896090
hitler broke up with stalin

>>1896053
Who the fuck is that center right? Looks like Dr. Seuss' nip caricature.

The molotov-ribbentrop pact was opportunistic. The deal was, poland was to be split with russia - russia would gain land out of it.

They actually went to the british and flat out said "what are YOU offering US for a pact?" It baffled the brits because they weren't thinking in terms of gaining anything, only blocking german expansion. As soon as the ruskies saw that they had absolutely nothing to gain for joining the allies - they signed on board with the non-aggression pact with germany.

>>1896178
The german research, even late in the war, into heavy water was so far behind that when the US had the chance to assassinate one of their top scientists - it was determined that there was no need. They wouldn't of had The Bomb anytime soon.

>>1896053
Are you actually implying the USSR didn't ally themselves with Germany during 1939-1941 to split Eastern Europe betwen themselves?

>b-but it was a n-non-agression pact, not an alliance
Jump off a building.

>>1896053
If they did join the Axis, I think the war would have become a stalemate.

The Axis' land army might have be stronger but the US and the UK would still have the stronger Navy and Air Force. It'd be very hard for the Allies to invade mainland Europe but the Axis would still have no way to launch a counter offensive across the British channel. I'd also assume that Japan still gets smashed in the Pacific.

This implies Germany would allow them to be official allies.

Germany needed to expand. It needed factories, oil, farmland, lebensraum.

Germany did not want to keep France or absorb britain - they wanted both to exist as seperate peaceful trade partners. Germany wanted expansion to the East.

Germany was going to move on russia regardless. The non-aggression pact was intended to make the allies balk at guaranteeing poland's independence once the germans fabricated a reason to march. Hitler never entertained the thought of Russia as an actual ally.

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>>1896053
It was an Axis country until 1941.

Soviet Union supplied resources for Germany, NKVD trained Gestapo how to torture and build death camps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo%E2%80%93NKVD_Conferences

>>1896066
>a communist party joining a party which despised communism
>black man making an alliance with the KKK

Those things happened. Welcome to planet Earth.

>>1896090
Because the enemy of my enemy is my friend

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>>1897038
You underesitmate the human wave "tactics" of the Soviets.

Zhukov would just build a land bridge across the English Channel with the bodies of dead Russian soldiers and invade with the Germans.

>>1897038
what the fuck is air power or naval superiority even going to do against the USSR and Germany combined?

>>1897253
As I said, it would insure that they would never be able to do a cross channel invasion.

For offensive measures, they'll just do the same thing that they already did during WW2. Bomb the ever living crap out of their infrastructure.

>>1897268
yes, with only two large and industrialized powers focused on the air war instead of a ground war against a common foe instead of a ground war against each other.

>>1897280
Are you going to tell me that German and Soviet technology for planes would outclass American and British technology?

>inb4 muh ME-262s

That would go against everything Hitler and the Nazis stood for

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>>1896053
COMMUNIST NAZIS?!

MY GOD, WE'RE DOOMED!

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>>1897302
>I'm a proud anarcho-national-sozialist-communist

>>1896090
Because of temporary necessity.

>>1897493
Anarcho-Kleptocracy when?

>>1897293
are you going to tell me the allies will have a time as easy as they had when the Soviets and the germans, instead of clobbering each other silly will be working together and focusing on aerial warfare?

>>1897553
That's not an argument.

Britain alone was already beating the Luftwaffe before Germany even started fighting the Soviet Union. Ever hear of the Battle of Britain?

Add the US into the fray and there's no way the Axis hope to outproduce the allies even with the Soviet Union.

>>1897300

Which is of course why they signed the MR pact and the USSR was their biggest trading partner before attacking them.


The Nazis habitually put aside their ideology when it was convenient at the moment.

well, they wouldn't have.
but if they did the allies probably would've lost the European front.
And our chances of winning the Asian front would've been lessened

>>1897300
They could always turn on them later

>>1896053
They would have great expansion opportunities in wonderful places like Iran, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Who knows why they didn't jump at the chance?

>>1896090
Stalin was a Hitlerboo. He respected Hitler for what he did as a politician. He also hoped the germans would fight the brits and french like they did in ww1. If it had gone like that soviets could easily just go and grab some land in the chaos for themselves and not lose horribly like last time.

>>1896090
Stalin was getting ready to invade Germany and needed time, but Hitler attacked before his preparations were complete and fucked his plan up.

>>1896053
holy shit, that guy with glasses looks like a typical action movie evil nazi mastermind

>>1899002


[citation needed]

>>1899050
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_offensive_plans_controversy#Suvorov.2C_Icebreaker.2C_and_the_1980s

That's the basic gist of it.

>>1899179
From that page:
>While most agree that Stalin made extensive preparations for an eventual war and that he exploited the military conflict in Europe to his advantage, the assertions that Stalin planned to attack Nazi Germany in the summer of 1941, and that Operation Barbarossa was a preemptive strike by Hitler, are generally discounted

>>1899186
It didn't have to happen in the summer of 1941 for the general idea to be true.

>>1896972
>They actually went to the british and flat out said "what are YOU offering US for a pact?" It baffled the brits because they weren't thinking in terms of gaining anything, only blocking german expansion. As soon as the ruskies saw that they had absolutely nothing to gain for joining the allies - they signed on board with the non-aggression pact with germany.
Litvinov wanted to have an alliance against German expansionism with France and Britain in 1936-1938. However, the UK and France kept on stalling and Stalin was frustrated with the lack of progress and replaced him with Molotov who suggested a pact with Germany as Germany was seen as more reliable.

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>>1896053
When did Mickey Rourke's offensive asian stereotype join the Natsoc's?

>>1899179

That's a long, long way from a citation, anon. Bringing up a book that's been repeatedly panned by the historical community is a bad start, and noting that Stalin was getting ready for war is way different from asserting he was actually planning to invade as opposed to say, fearing he would be invaded.

And even if he was planning on expansionism, it's not like Hitler's empire is the only direction to go.

>>1897240

>black man making an alliance with the KKK

What do you mean "this happened"?

>>1899228
>And even if he was planning on expansionism, it's not like Hitler's empire is the only direction to go.
There was no place more attractive than Europe to Stalin. If he had defeated Hitler after Hitler had beaten France and Britain, he'd have little in terms of real competition, apart from the US, which was far out of his reach anyway.

>>1899228
Could you link to someone debunking the books claims?

>>1899260

Stumbling Colossus deconstructs it pretty thoroughly.

https://www.amazon.com/Stumbling-Colossus-World-Modern-Studies/dp/0700617892

>>1899247

>There was no place more attractive than Europe to Stalin.

You're basing this on what exactly?

> If he had defeated Hitler after Hitler had beaten France and Britain,

That's a pretty big IF, isn't it? I mean look at his few expansionist campaigns before then. He always went after diplomatic isolates he outnumbered and outclassed by at least 10:1.

And of course, that's assuming Stalin thought he could beat France and Britain, which were not the main line of contemporary analysts of the time. More likely if we're pursuing this line of thought, is that he thought Britain and France would prevail over Germany, and use that to gobble up minor countries aligned to Germany in the aftermath.