ITT: People throughout history who will be remembered in 2000

ITT post an obscure person and force others to do a reverse image search.

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>>1878816
>not knowing who Murray Rothbard is
Faggot, also
>pic related
Will be remembered

>>1878814
Ah not sure about "greatness" would be a title for him. Sure he was intelligent at the philosophy of economic theory. Didn't help that because of his sharp disagreements with his fellow peers left him 10 years to get his dissertation approved for his phd. Possible for "significant" but "greatness" is over rating him as an economist. I don't think there is any economist I can think of that deserves "remembered for greatness." Significant is also a generosity given since his significance has been within a specific sectors of economic thought. Revolutionized his specific sector but outside of that its nothing of note.

>>1878817
>posting big nosed people no one knows about
Is the JIDF out? No one gives a shit about your "influential" Jews.

>>1878814
Rothbard, along with the entire Austrian school, will be relegated to the trash heap of history.

>>1878830
Reminder than intelligence just means you are capable of coming up with a good argument for bullshit, like all "academics" do

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>pic related
Great man
>>1878830
He is an amazing philosopher
>>1878834
Back to /pol/
>>1878837
Back to /leftypol/

>>1878842
Leftypol has nothing to do with anything here. The Austrian school is already considered pseudoscientific dogma by mainstream economists, and it becomes more obsolete with each passing year. The Austrian school will be a footnote among economic thought at most.

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>>1878846
Dang it /pol/ stay back
>>1878853
lol

>>1878853
And that's after it had the benefit of the doubt and was propped up by anti-communist sentiments, since it offered an alternative to classical economics that Marxism was based upon.

>>1878857
No argument, I see.

>>1878857

Not even /pol/, I'm just pretty sure he'll be remembered as a 'great' man (that doesn't necessarily mean 'nice man' or 'man I approve of morally' or 'man I desire to emulate').

>>1878863
>this is what /leftypol/ actually believe

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Really though

>>1878882
>muh leftypol

Just give up

>>1878891
>/leftypol/ is trying this hard

>>1878882
But this is historically true. The Austrian School was given the spotlight in the west when communism was a threat because it was explicitly anti-communist.

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If I had to choose just one.

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>>1878908
>>1878904

>>1878907
Nice conspiracy theory commie

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>>1878919

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>>1878814
Not even joking.

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>>1878931

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>>1878943
>>1878919

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>>1878943

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>>1878814

>>1878962
If I got sent to a gulag I would walk in with my head high, at least I would get to serve my people.

>>1878814
2000 is a long time but maybe Neil Armstrong

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>pic related
Greatest modern day philosopher

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>>1879001
Remember when this guy invited Chomsky on his show?

...and then got fucked?

>>1879018
No he did not get fucked at all

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>>1878970
kek i was just watching that video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQytIoPhlA0

Literally no one except community college drop outs takes Austrian school economics seriously.

Literally no one except liberals takes keynesianism seriously

>>1879022
keep believing this bro, whatever helps you stave off the self-loathing

>>1879234
Nice meme.
Keynesian macroeconomics is a key part of the neoclassical synthesis, which dominates mainstream economics.

Only illiterates use the word Keynesianism as a pejorative.

>>1879611
Nice meme
Austrian macroeconomics is a key part of the neoclassical synthesis, which dominates mainstream economics.

Only illiterates use the word Austrian as a pejorative.

>>1878919
>some faggot who cried like a bitch.

>>1879806
>ywn be this butthurt

>>1879836
>ywn be this butthurt

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>>1878814

>>1879611
correct

>>1879806
incorrect

>>1878814
What is it with Rothbard that triggers Keynescucks so much that they go straight into non-arguments (see ITT, things like muh academia)?

Is it because of their bizarro empiricism centuries (after it's been btfo by engineers)?
Or butthurt against individualism (methodological)?
Or simply after-the-fact buttblast because Rothbard is not presenting a pleasing view of their authoritarian impulses?

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>Austrian economics

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>>1879924
>Keynesian economics

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Just how better the world would be without Keynes? Marx is fortunately now recognized as a fucktard and Mill too by those who remember him. But Keynes seriously doesn't even attract a tenth of the hate he's entitled too.

>I'll try manipulating the money supply, that's a good trick
>I'll try the multiplicator, that's a good trick

The multiplicator alone should be a meme.

>>1879806

But Austrian economics uses no scientific evidence to come to its conclusions.

Also if it was so great, how come no one uses it?

>>1879001
>philosopher
hahahahahahahahaha

good one

>>1879970
How is he not a good philosopher?

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>>1879962

>>1879962
What do you mean "scientific evidence"?

Austrian economics is not an empirical theory if that's what you mean, and I don't think any of its writers has ever claim the contrary.

>>1879962
>>1879978
Literally can be said of any a priori study, and rightfully so.
Set theory is not any different.

So I have the response to my question >>1879898
The answer was buttblasted empiricists.

>>1878853
>Leftypol has nothing to do with anything here.
It's about 30% of shitposting, you faggots raid all the time.
>The Austrian school is already considered pseudoscientific dogma by neo-liberal economists and socialist morons.
FTFY
>and it becomes more obsolete with each passing year.
It becomes more and more relevant as Keynesian and neoclassical economics show that government intervention always results in unintended and negative consequences.
>The Austrian school will be a footnote among economic thought at most.
It is pinnical of economic thought, thank you very much.

>>1879978
>>1879992
A priori studies have always seemed to me like the best way to go regarding economics, empiricism, specially in macro, requires too many assumptions to work.

>>1879978
>>1879962
>Claiming to have centralized knowledge
>deducing that because it can't be wholly explained in exactly scientific terms that it's discredited or unfounded
Boy I sure do trust your market predictions in a perfect market world.

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>all these people who hate freedom ITT

Daily reminder that classical liberals who believe in individual rights, free market capitalism, limited government, and free trade/free movement of peoples are the true anti-fascists and anti-racists.

>>1879979

By cause and effect, I mean by observation.

We can observe the Keynesian influence on the US Economy prior to WW2 and post.

It can be of course determined because of the massive government spending program of WW2, this led directly to the prosperity of the 1950's.

Even if you disagree, you cannot say that the massive government spending did not lead to another depression in the 1950's.

Also the Federal Reserve QE appears to have brought the US Economy from collapse.

Again if you disagree and say the economy fixed itself, you cannot say that things got worse.

By this, in order for an Austrian economic policies to prove itself to me, it needs to be actually tried and work.

I mean technically the hands off of the Hoover administration could be considered pretty close to Austrian, but it did not prevent the Great Depression.

And to be really fair, Nazi Germany shows that governments can dig themselves out of 50% unemployment and hyperinflation faster than non-intervention can.

>>1880024.
>And to be really fair, Nazi Germany shows that governments can dig themselves out of 50% unemployment and hyperinflation faster than non-intervention can.
Nope, not with Peace.
They have to plunder other countries.

Peace is a foundation of liberty, without it markets cannot cooperate.

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>>1880022

That left and right spectrum is too simple.

There are conservatives that want government to regulate morality.

There are socialists that want libertarian pot laws.

And you can be a fascist with libertarian economics.

I'll take communism over free market ideology any day.

Complain about "cultural-Marxism" all you want /pol/, cultural-VonMisesism would be a shit show to end all shit shows

>>1880004
That's true, but then you get armies of people that want to control the economy, and a priori studies are pretty much useless for this, as all Austrian economics have always clearly said about their work.

>>1880024
>the hands off of the Hoover administration could be considered pretty close to Austrian
It's not good lying so blatantly. At least make it more believable.
>https://mises.org/system/tdf/Americas%20Great%20Depression_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>We can observe the Keynesian influence on the US Economy prior to WW2 and post.
No, we can't.
Any person that has ever been a serious engineer will tell you that it is ludicrous. Only pure theory could explain a causal link here. There is no way to extract anything resembling even a correlation from this kind of evidence. I work in information theory for communication devices. If I made such a bizarre statement as you just did, I would get fired. And I would deserve it.

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>>1880069
>I would take poverty over wealth for the masses any day
Good thing you don't have power and I have the right to own Arms.

>>1880022
liberals and conservatives are the same

>>1880077

So if we can't say if government intervention in the economy in WW2 did or did not cause the economic conditions of the 1950's...

...how can we tell if non-interference with the government would be any better?

>>1880080

Hello, useful idiot.

Your whole ideology was created by Trotskyists to ensure your irrelevancy

>>1880077
engineers are people who couldn't hack it in a proper math or physics program

go away idiot

>>1880100
We can't, not from experience.
Which to remain ITT, von Mises has always recognized >>1879978

People like to cite this bit and other bits from writers such as Wieser and Machlup, but often forget to explain that these writers explicitly recognized that their theories could not be proven by the comparative success of less interventionist economies.

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>>1880101
>an argument
And here is your tinfoil hat.
Go read a book and hopefully the government won't try and steal your brainwaves.

>>1880069
i listened to tds this week too

>>1880112
t. Social Gender studies major

>>1880112
Most engineers where I work (myself included) went though math and physics degrees.
I'm not Anglo, and here the term engineer is not pejorative, far from it.

Besides, if you really did mathematics, you shouldn't be triggered by a priori studies.

>>1880123

That is the most retarded fucking thing I have ever heard and I used to be a libertarian.

So he comes up with a system of economics which he thinks will work, but there is no actual fucking way to tell if it is actually working.

Who in the right mind would keep doing something if you can't tell if its fucking working or not?

>>1880144
You should probably read Foundations of Liberty, and How the west grew rich m8

>>1878817
>philosophy called objectivism
>only arguments are her subjective opinions that selfishness is objective

In a hundred years no one will remember her name or her shitty fiction

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>>1880151

Yeah. But that is different from what the other guy is saying.

You can tell from experience that people got rich through economic policy, but if you say we should go Austrian, when we can't actually tell from experience that its working or not is just plain retarded.

>>1880144
You can get insight from an a priori study to devise a course of action that then you can see in operation.

Calculus will never be "proved" or "disproved" because some moron can make a turbine run or explodes.

>That is the most retarded fucking thing I have ever heard
If reading about something that is not empirical is "the most retarded fucking thing" you've ever heard, the problem doesn't lie with me.

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>>1880164

Oh so you are saying economics is totally theoretical?

I mean in applied math or engineering, you can tell its not fucking working when the building fucking collapses.

If you can't tell there is something wrong with your economic policy when you have 30% unemployment, then you need to find a system that can be fucking tested.

>>1880022
Nice buzzwords.

>>1880043
>They have to plunder other countries.

We still do that but more discreet though.

>>1880131

That part killed me. It's so true too. The thought of widespread Jeffrey Tuckerism in academia is hilarious.

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>>1880153
Ayn Rand will be remembered as an obscure mystery cult along the lines of Scientology as a cultish fad philosophy briefly popular among bored citizens who needed a sense of belonging to fill the vapid emptiness of life during the Pax Americana.

2,000 years from now people will think of them the same way that modern people think of ancient Roman gnostics: people who believed that they figured out all the secrets of the universe and got wealthy selling said secrets to gullible rubes until people caught on to the fact that their ideas were essentially unprovable and thus inapplicable in any practical sense and existed primarily to float the ego of the cult's founder.

Pic related, if anyone is going to still be a household name in 2,000 years it will be someone who actually did something extraordinary with their lives.

>>1880178
A large problem is
>people create a model
>the model assumes perfect knowledge and tries to derive the "perfect right answer"
>When the market doesn't match the model, people say it is in "market failure"
>because the market is "in failure" they push for government intervention to "fix" the "failure" (assuming they are acting in prudence)
>the market now matches the "correct" model
>model changes and now has unintended consequences such as monopoly or Duopoly or shortage or surplus
The problem is knowledge isn't centralized to make a proper definitive and "scientific" market model for the what the market "should be" and there is no definitive way to measure the "correctness" of the market.

Which is why you get retards demanding a $15 per hour minimum wage.

>>1880178
I don't think anyone has argued against that. Certainly not Austrian economists.

Von Mises was one the consultant of the association of American manufacturers and had to recommend something. The manufacturers did ok, though there is of course no way to say it was because of Mises.
Muchlup was heading the Bellagio group, at the time the main finantial think tank of this kind, and had to help devise policies.
Eugen von Böhm Bawerk was ministry of finance of Austria.

People seems to look at the magical formula that you only need to "apply" to get results, and so called Austrian economics has never pretended to be that.

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>>1880204

Which leads me to another question I always ask Libertarians?

How can Austrian economics exist if there are market failures and a democracy?

People won't vote for a person who says they won't do anything. They'll be voted out and replaced by someone who will use government to fix the problem.

But really, if market failures like 20% unemployment is normal in Austrian economics, shouldn't something else be tried?

I mean even if you say the government intervention in the economy in the 1940's did not directly result in the economic conditions in the 1950's...

You cannot say that the government intervention stagnated the 1950's economies which was one of the most government spending and high tax burden era's that we had.

Also we did not end up with 30% unemployment when Federal Reverse used QE to attempt to resolve the economy. So it cause things to go Wiemar Germany like.

On top of that, I think there is a dysfunction of cognizance, to view government and the free market as two separate entities. You cannot have one without the other. The government simply acts like an oversized business in that regard.

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Hell, he's remembered right now for his greatness.

But at least in 2000 years all the butthurt reactionaries will be dead.

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>>1880246
>How can Austrian economics exist if there are market failures and a democracy?
It can't, which is why libertarians tend to be dismissive of the democratic process and believe in either fully privatizing the government and letting it be managed by CEOs (held accountable only to their shareholders the way that a king only needed to answer to his aristocratic backers) or letting there be a "tyrant of freedom" who will uphold the property claims of wealthy people and maintain a government that only cares about keeping foreigners out and suppressing labor uprisings at home.

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>>1880246
>The government simply acts like an oversized business in that regard.
The government proceeds by forcing association with it, it is a difference of kind with businesses, not just size.

>one of the most government spending and high tax burden era's that we had.
Nope. Pic related, data from here https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals
As for the 90% tax maymay, I think at this point I don't need to refute this again.

>How can Austrian economics exist if there are market failures and a democracy?
How can calculus be a thing if a pane crashes?

As for the democracy part, it is non-argument. First because it confuses Austrian economics with a political platform. Second because being hard to elect is not an argument against the validity of something.

>>1880313
Why does every lower middle class shlub that buys into the libertarian meme think this would be a good thing?

>>1880313
Lol libertarians literally want a return to the ancien régime

>>1880330
Because they like weed but hate poor people.

>>1880313
>privatizing the government and letting it be managed by CEOs
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
You probably mean privatizing this and that industry. But not privatizing the government.

>will uphold the property claims of wealthy people
Indeed, among other property. I don't even know how "wealthy people" are anything special here.
>suppressing labor uprisings
Ok, you're just some socialist that wants his rebolution, perhaps to rob the "wealthy".

>>1880313
>>1880330
that is ancaps

libertarians just want a regular democracy with a mostly libertarian political culture

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>>1880327

I meant Austrian Economics as a pratical appication, not simply as theoretical idea.

Of course Austrian Economics as a theory can exist in democracy, but what happens when you need to implement an economic policy?

Doing nothing is still a policy? But does it work? Has it been shown to work?

Again this was my original point. If you cannot tell if doing nothing is a good economic policy through experience, then why do it?

Yes, Calculus is great in theory, but if it was useless in practical terms, then why bother. It turns out Calculus is great to figure out practical problems though. I did it in college and you could figure out minimum material required to continue certain amount of liquids etc, liquid mixes, minimum pipe required when crossing over bodies of water etc etc.

Which leads me to the problem with Austrian economics that I seem to have...

...if its not useful in practical terms and is only good in theory and you cannot tell through experience if its working or not, why bother with it when it comes to determining economic policy?

I mean you need to have some economic policy even if its not doing anything at all? And if you aren't sure if doing nothing at all is working or not? Why continue to do it?

Really. Does that not make sense to you?

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Marx will be the messiah of the third millennium, Anno Domini.

The achievements and failures of 20th century will be forgotten by all except the histories of that period.

>>1880357
>democracy is good as long as the only choices are small gubmen™ and free market™ parties

>>1880330
>Why does every lower middle class shlub that buys into the libertarian meme think this would be a good thing?
For the same reason why every artist fancies himself the next Vincent Van Gogh, an undiscovered genius laboring thanklessly in a system which is simply not structured to recognize his genius for what it is, and if only things were different then they could thrive and get the respect that they feel they deserve.

Mix that in with a nice heaping dose of belief in golden ages and you got yourself a libertarian who thinks that tearing down the hen house is the best solution to the problem of foxes getting inside and killing all the chickens.

>>1880350
>You probably mean privatizing
No I mean anarcho-capitalism, which is libertarianism carried to its logical conclusion.
>Indeed, among other property. I don't even know how "wealthy people" are anything special here
Because without checks and balances judiciaries become pay-to-win
>Ok, you're just some socialist that wants his rebolution, perhaps to rob the "wealthy".
The socialist revolution is exactly what capital redistribution is designed to help society avoid. when people are disenfranchised politically their attitude becomes "why should I care about a system that doesn't care about me?"

>>1880022
Communists want to abolish government in the end

>>1878842
>>1878938
>>1879409
>>1880143

the only correct one

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>>1880345
>anything that is not collectivist is ancien régime
Pic related.

>>1880361
>Doing nothing is still a policy?
I guess, I won't argue semantics. A velocity of zero is still a velocity.
>Has it been shown to work?
HK literally banned the taking of economic statistics for 15 years just to alleviate the temptation of administrators to "manage" the economy. You judge if that went well (inb4 muh city-state).

Besides, Austrian economics as such doesn't claim to "do nothing".
First of all, you have really "orthodox" Austrian economics that are not libertarian. Wieser is the biggest name here. He is strictly in the Austrian tradition and was certainly not libertarian.
Second, even going for libertarianism as a political platform, the "do nothing" is taken for attempts at imposing force on the economy (including things like monetary pumping). Even the most die hard libertarian state would be hard at work in court. In fact a large number of laws and regulations are made to avoid litigation.

austrians pls fuck off and read a basic textbook or two

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/whyaust.htm

>>1878846
>>1878904
>>1880143
Yes

>>1880258
Probably

>>1880410
>You judge if that went well (inb4 muh city-state).
There are people in Hong Kong that pay rent to live in literal cages.

Were you born this retarded or did you have to work at it?

>>1880397
>anarcho-capitalism
Privatizing the government is some circle-square oxymoron. You could have private police forces if that's what you mean.

>Because without checks and balances judiciaries become pay-to-win
What are these checks and balances exactly? You could argue the same is happening today.

>The socialist revolution is exactly what capital redistribution is designed to help society avoid. when people are disenfranchised politically their attitude becomes "why should I care about a system that doesn't care about me?"
This is some "let's cater to muslims otherwise they'll become terrorists" cuck logic.

>>1880431
There is misery everywhere. And HK is really not the place of choice to look for it.

>>1880410

Why are you arguing the issue about doing nothing with they would be running courts and such? That wasn't the point.

My point is no matter what you do is an economic policy.

And if your policy doesn't seem to be working when you get higher than 10% unemployment, then why continue to practice it?

And if you can't tell with experience that its working or not, then why do it?

My main point beyond that is, yes... You can tell when you are fucking up the economy?

It was obvious that Zimbabwe shouldn't have been printing all that money. I mean wouldn't you agree? That's obvious trial by experience.

>>1880410

lol it's nearly always HK or singapore so predictable, being a banking centre, western capitalist outpost next to china of all countries and 90% service economy doing well without some stats doesn't mean anything

the counterfactual would be what would hk have been like with 'management' of the economy, it's the same dumb logical step as leftists who say high income tax rates are fine because scandinavia isn't so bad, that's not a solid argument. Scandinavia may well be better with lower tax rates too. Hong Kong could have been better with management. Neither says anything about tax rates or economic management.

>>1880442
HK is a poster child for nothing but massive wealth inequality. One bedroom apartments start at two million dollars. It shouldn't be upheld as a standard for anything.

>>1880444
I think we went the wrong foot with the whole Austrian economics thing. It is not libertarianism or any other political platform.

Nothing stops a government of people having studied it taxing people and spending it in robotics because they think the population are utter plebs that would spend it on football while the officials are patricians that should spend the money according to their better wishes.

>>1880475
If you had read the thread, for isntance:
>>1880164
>>1880178
You would not look retarded now. The discussion precisely began on a success story not meaning anything to judge a theory.

>>1880486

Well I kind of agree.

The problem with classical economics as a theory is that assumes rational actors that buy at the most rational price and don't do stupid things.

Well humans are both irrational and stupid at many levels.

Some people given money would buy shit they don't really need or that they paid too much for.

Also even highly trained and educated people do terribly stupid things against their best interest.

Which is why we have boom and busts along with major bubbles. Its been happening since recorded history of economics (tulip bubbles) and the point is that you have to figure out how to be non-emotional with economics.

Sometimes that requires experts making the decisions (if hopefully they are rational).

To add, certain things can only be accomplished by large government.

Let's say an asteroid is found that is going to impact in the middle of the USA destroying both coasts.

Who would pay for the program to deflect the asteroid? If the system relied on the free market it would most likely fail because there is no exact measurable economic gain for paying for the space program. It would require a centralized authority to implement this program and pay with it through taxes etc etc.

But otherwise... I believe that you can tell when your economic policy isn't working through observation. That is how cause and effect works. Yes the free market has many variables to it, but you can totally fuck it up through action or inaction.

Its how the world works.

>>1880480
>massive wealth inequality
Titillating envy is not an argument.

But you consider Switzerland, which has wealth inequality lower than many other places in the OCDE and is one of the most free economies in the world.

>>1880538

Which again... Pointing out. If you can't tell if government intervention is or is not working, how can you tell if non-intervention works as well?

>>1880540

http://www.therichest.com/business/the-top-10-countries-with-the-highest-minimum-wages/

>Switzerland, as a country, actually does not have a minimum wage written into law. It does have collective bargaining agreements between its workers and management and almost the entire population is covered by it. The minimum salary of skilled workers ranges from 2,800 to 5,300 Swiss francs, while that of unskilled workers may be anywhere between 2,200 to 4,200 Swiss francs.

>>1880540
>Titillating envy is not an argument.
Comparing how many people are eating out of trash cans and living in cages and how many sprinkle gold onto their food is certainly a metric you'd consider when making a judgement if a certain economic philosophy has any merits. I mean, if you're not an autistic libretardian that is.

>>1880524

one success story, no

multiple success stories taking similar policies and having masses of data to judge? much closer

there are plenty of things that are empirically proven to be effective economically (of course adjusting for your desired outcome): free trade, flexible labor force, low corporate tax rates, a low minimum wage etc

there is much more to economics than simply how a government sets up a country's economy, microeconomics is very succesful in using empiricism

>>1880538
But that was not directly linked to Austrian economics, which is more akin to logic, if you want. You can develop its arguments to convince people they are saying bullshit or to give insight into the structure of exchange but that's pretty much all.
It will not tell you where to invest money. Focusing on government is blurring things more than anything. It won't say to a private investor freely investing his own money where to buy and sell either.

You can still "use" it, mostly in a negative manner. Like in the economic calculation problem. Similar to how you could refute an argument using formal logic, even if formal logic standing by itself will never tells you what to do.

I'm not even defending this or that idea of Menger, Mises or Lachmann here. It just seems that retarded empiricists are buttblasted at the mere idea of an a priori study of action.
Then rabbid lefties are buttblasted against it because of the association to liberty.

>>1879018
wait, was Chomsky actually on Molymeme's show?

>>1880588
>microeconomics is very succesful in using empiricism
I never denied that.

>>1880558
Switzerland not having a minimum wage works pretty well.
Besides, it doesn't change that it has lower wealth inequality than, say, the UK and the US, which have minimum wages cast into law.

>>1880586
All right, so people can earn more than me, but not too much more. What's the limit?

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>>1880616
>he fell for the "Molyneux is not the most important living philosopher" meme

>>1880616
Yes and Moly got absolutely destroyed.

>>1878814

Nobody who is not a Christian.

>>1878837
rothbard maybe, the Austrian School on the other hand will be seen as the only economic school capable of a minimally coherent understanding of economics

>>1878853
>dogma by mainstream economists
but mainstream economy is pseudoscientific dogma itself.
And I'm pretty sure I have a LOT more proof of it, than you have against the Austrian School other than
>muh praxeology

>>1881801
Hayek has already been absorbed into neoclassical thought, and anyone who still identifies as Austrian today disowns Hayek, so no. The Austrian School as it is known today, dominated by Mises and Rothbard, are done.

>>1880424
>bwaaahhh why dont you accept my own codified set of dogmas that only happened to be mainstream because they were beneficial for the ruling system

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>>1881826
>The Austrian School as it is known today, dominated by Mises and Rothbard, are done

how cute.

ITT: A ancap trying to shitpost

>>1880382
>"hi we're socialists and want to convince people through the power of argument"
>wow such good wholesome citizens

>"hi we're libertarians and want to convince people through the power of argument like everyone else"
>WHAT WHAT WHAT?? YOU ARE SAYING YOUR INSATIABLE BLOODLUST WON'T BE QUENCHED UNTIL EVERY LAST LIVING SOUL BOWS BEFORE YOU?????!?!!?!

calm down

>>1881826
>Hayek has already been absorbed into neoclassical thought

You mean like how folk medicine that actually work is just called medicine

>>1881892
but neoclassical economics doesnt work and is largely incapable of actually present a coherent analysis of contemporary economics

if neoclassical economics is like medicine, then it must be 12th century european medicine certainly

>>1881883
I think you got your responses mixed up, at least in America

>"hi we're socialists and want to convince people through the power of argument"
>WHAT WHAT WHAT?? YOU ARE SAYING YOUR INSATIABLE BLOODLUST WON'T BE QUENCHED UNTIL EVERY LAST LIVING SOUL BOWS BEFORE YOU?????!?!!?!

>>1881906
That's why you have neoclassical synthesis.

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>>1880702
>>1880661
>>1879018
>>1879001
>>1880616

where we you when Molymeme became an ethno-nationalist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG1pItpyWBY

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>>1881949
What a fucking pleb.

>>1878814
He will be remembered as the person who defended the most retarded epistemology of the last century.

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a visionary robbed of his future

>>1878853
>projecting this hard

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Me.

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>>1878814

>>1880538
Although I don't agree with you for reasons I won't elaborate here, you've been the best interlocutor in this entire thread. Good job anon.

>>1880382
that's such a stupid reply.

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>>1880258

Fuck off commie. even if you try and Gulag us, if there still exists men of vision and ambition amongst us, we'll never die.

And speaking of dreams and ambition, i say this guy.

>>1881949
I was at home in my sofa kekking loudly. It's amusing to watch his transformation as it is taking place. Next week he is going to be a monarchist, you heard it here first.

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>>1880022
This, as a former Antifa member I have finally seen the light of classical liberalism as the best defense against fascists and bigots.

>>1880069
Why dont you move to some socialist paradise like Venezuela then?

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>>1879001
Stefan for sure

>>1883381

kek fascists will eat 'classical'(damn it's classic, must be good) liberals alive

>>1883381
do you vote for open borders and listen to John Lennon?

>>1883375
He's already repeated some pro-monarchy arguments from Hoppe on the show before

>>1878814
Rothbard was a far better historian than he was an economist, and he was a much better economist than he was a political strategist.

His overview of the Israeli conflict and history of the American right are excellent. As was his massive (almost exhaustive) history of the Colonial United States up until the end of the revolution (he had drafted a fifth volume that would cover the constitution, but it never came to be.)

His political strategy was absolutely abysmal, though I could see what he was trying to do and it is better than what lolbertarians try to do these days anyway. He pretty much laid out the Trump method of appealing to poor racists and hicks ("deplorables" as Clinton would call them) which is based on what communists did (he even admitted so) funnily enough.

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>>1880044

>>1883808
And Trump has been a success, no matter how the election goes on the 8th.

Rothbard has always liked the common sense of simple people ("poor racists and hicks" as well as business owners) and hated "intellectuals".
Which is why he recommended to go full populism and never ever under any circumstances try to make the slightest concession to "respectable" "intellectuals".

>>1884654
Trump's success depends on what happens in 2018, if mini trumps start running for congressional spots across the nation, then he would really be a success, but if things just go back to normal than he would be a flash in the pan.

I know why Rothbard liked populism, but he should have realized the sort of danger there is in populism, things can go out of hand very quickly when peasants become the primary political pawn.

>>1885565
So like short skinny orange millionaires with babby hands?

>>1880022
>Le left=big guberment and right=freedumbs

Oh no, it's a retard

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>>1880022
>fascism
>uses the National Socialist Party flag

>>1880044
>Pinocho
>fascist

>>1883381
>we must oppose fascism with my outdated 18th century ideology
>I'm TOTALLY not a reactionary guys!

>>1880022
Jesus Christ you people are insufferable, fascism is capitalism in decay.

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>>1885648
>To Mussolini, the capitalism of his time had degenerated from original capitalism, which he called dynamic or heroic capitalism (1830–1870) to static capitalism (1870–1914) and then finally to decadent capitalism or supercapitalism, which began in 1914. In 1933, Benito Mussolini declared Italian Fascism's opposition to supercapitalism.

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>>1878814
>>1878817

>>1885586
I was thinking more people with populist rhetoric talking about restoring america as opposed to maintaining it which is what the message used to be.

best case scenario we'd have elections and the rhetoric become a lot less nice and a lot more vulgar and straight to the point.

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>>1878919

>>1885723
How are Edgar, Henry, and Jenny doing again?

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>>1879001

>Stefan
>philosopher

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FekLGGOZBuY

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>>1879957

>Marx
>fucktard

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>>1880044

>Pinochet
>libertarian
>but muh free margets guise

>>1881949

He's going to turn into a feudalist in no time at all, mark my words

>>1885739

Zizek, Marcos and Wolff seem to be going good too

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>>1885745
>his theories inspired PRC and USSR
>Applications of Marxist theory have transformed a third of the globe
>Is that what you define as failure?
WELL, HOW ABOUT FUCKING YES? Every single one of these countries can be used as a definition of failure.

>>1885745
Communism is the definition of failure.

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>>1885775

Rojava, Bolivia and the social democracies with in Norway seem to be going well

Also

>USSR
>failure

Economy seemed good under it, desu

>>1885785

Yes, because capitalism hasn't had its fair share of fuck ups now has it?

>>1885787
>tankie defending marx
Marx didn't deserve this

>>1881826
> Hayek has already been absorbed into neoclassical thought, and anyone who still identifies as Austrian today disowns Hayek,

You what mate?

Hayek's large volume of works are critical in their criticism of the macroeconomic approach that justifies collectivism and Keynesian economics.

His decentralization of money is absolutely crucial for Austrian economics and the approach of a free society.

He's largely misunderstood due to his prose but whatever.

>>1885655
Does this prove my point or not?

>>1885791
Capitalism is literally based on people failing. It what makes capitalism tick. Constant failure paving the way for innovation.

>thread devolves into tankies vs not-tankie socialsts vs facists vs liberals free for all
>I contributed and didn't even notice
why do we always do this /his/?

>>1885800
Neoclassical isn't the same as the neoclassical synthesis retard, and no economist ever gets 100% of their ideas absorbed into mainstream economics for perpetuity. Useful bits get take piecemeal.

Has any economist got more blown the fuck out than hayek when discussing with sraffa?

>>1885827
Why do you say Austrian's disown him when his earlier contributions are critical and his later works & interviews clear up the misconceptions?

>>1886009
The only Austrian I know that vocally disowns him is Hoppe who calls him a Socialist.

>>1886049
Hoppe is amazing but he's also an anal-retentive perfectionist.

It's really just a clash of prose and personality, he obviously prefers the finality and scientific rigor of himself and Mises to the curiosity and nuance of Hayek.

It's sort of like criticisms of Milton Friedman, where people look at his policy proposals at the time rather than what he proposed as a preferable end goal, the distinction being political feasibility.

Similarly, Hayek would consider all possibilities and situations, would answer questions specific of the time and situation and evolved his ideas over many decades. At the end of his life he maintained his strict Austrian position.

>>1886190
>
this is true. I'm ancap af but I agree

>>1886190
>scientific rigor of himself and Mises
Hilarious.

>>1878887
MAH NIGGA.

>>1885816
>vs fascists vs liberals
Half of people ITT are too illiterate to differentiate the two.

>>1885803
No. Mussolini rejected the capitalistic system and opted for one based on national syndicalism and corporatism.

>>1886552
Fascists are capitalists, which doesn't mean i can't distinguish them from liberals.

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>>1886559
>Fascists are capitalists
The definition of capitalism has become so vague that even ancient doctrines that preceded Adam Smith are called capitalist. The fact that it has become such a meaningless blob further supports the fascist notion of decadent capitalism/supercapitalism.

>doesn't mean i can't distinguish them from liberals.
Maybe it doesn't apply to you but it applies for everyone who believes Pinocho was a fascist.

>>1886597
What would you describe Pinochet as?

>>1886597
>The definition of capitalism has become so vague that even ancient doctrines that preceded Adam Smith are called capitalist.
Capitalism is just the private ownership of capital, including mercantilism. Adam Smith was describing market capitalism, and Smith's major contributions were an analysis of markets rather than capital. Capitalism is not meaningless. It's just the world isn't as simple as the simple (market) capitalism and (centrally planned) socialism dichotomy that the Cold War had you believe.

Also state capitalism is a thing, and it is not the same as other forms of capitalism. It would be more intuitive if it were hyphenated to state-capitalism because it's a system formed around the idea of state-capital in contrast to (implicitly private) capital.

>>1886608
a spic military caudillo

>>1878842
friedman wasnt even austrian

>Hitler pic
>muh fuck off /pol/!!!

>some commie pics
> c:

Hypocrits.

(not even from /pol/, from /int/)

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no one , we are all dead.

John Elway