Was the war of northern aggression the most unjust war of all time?

probably...

You mean the war of southern autism?

>>1877539
It was terrible..

Will dixies ever quit being butthurt?

No.

To quote the other thread, the South chimped out, seceded and attacked U.S. federal property when they realized they couldn't stop the election a moderate Republican with no expressed intent of abolishing slavery.

>b-but the revolution

I'm starting to think that (as it went) was a mistake too, though your Crown is gay and has no business in the new world.

>>1877539
Yeah, starting a war against the rightful government to preserve slavery was completely unjustifiable. Thankfully, America heroes like Grant and Sherman were able to put a stop to the Great Rebellion.

>>1877539
Was it not the South who initiated the war by attacking Fort Sumter?

>>1877539
Look, you can (poorly) argue about the causes of the war all you want, but only a lobotomized braindead retard denies the South fired the first shot.

>>1877539
guaranteed_responses.swf

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>>1877539
Quite the opposite

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>>1877540
>>1877549
>>1877550
>>1877552
>>1877555
>>1877561
>>1877581
>W-who cares if we violently oppress our own people, they treated blacks badly :(

>>1877627
>violent oppression consists of staffing federal forts and not immediately handing it over to the nation that had just created itself next door

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>>1877627
>How dare they oppress us for oppressing human beings!

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>>1877627
This thing is not and will never be my "own people"

>>1877648
Then why wont you let us secede? Yanks are literally retarded and deserved to be genocide

>>1877651
Because you invaded Federal land within months of secession?

>>1877651
laying siege to a federal fort is an act of war you dumbass

>>1877651
>invade federal fort.
We pretty much gave them the excuse they needed dumbass.

What if the south never fired and just waited out the north?

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>>1877627

>violently oppressed people

really made me think

>>1877539
>>1877633
Might as well post this pre-emptively before Southerners do the whole "hurr it reverted to South Carolina land when we seceded" bullshit:
>"Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory
>"Also resolved: That the State shall extinguish the claim, if any valid claim there be, of any individuals under the authority of this State, to the land hereby ceded.
>"Resolved, That this House to agree. Ordered that it be sent to the Senate for concurrence. By order of the House:
>"T. W. Glover, C. H. R."
>"In Senate, December 21st, 1836
>"Resolved, that the Senate do concur. >Ordered that it be returned to the House of Representatives, By order:
>Jacob Warly, C. S.

As for "old treaties don't apply to a new nation:"
The states that formed the Confederacy justified their secession under the assumption that the United States is a compact of independent states, and that each state has the ability to leave the Union under the constitution. Therefore, the very justification for the separation of South Carolina from the Union is an admission that this is the selfsame State of South Carolina that had agreed to cede the land on which Fort Sumter was built to the US federal government. To repudiate this treaty with the US government would be to repudiate the very (questionable) legal basis upon which South Carolina declared its secession lawful.

>>1877651

because we should have never have left in the first place, it would make us a lot weaker and poorer and less relevant, and you faggots are pretending to get mad and LARP over something that was settled over 150 years ago.

Stop with this divide and conquer shit you faggots

>>1877627
>open fire on Federal facility
>w-why are you fighting me! STOP OPPRESSING MY CULTURE!

Habeus Corpus can be suspended during times of insurrection, anon. :^)

>>1877627
>trying to diminish the cruelty of slavery by posting a frowning emoticon
>calling people retards because they're empathetic enough to realize that owning humans as chattel property is a terrible evil regardless of whether or not they belong to your in-group
>playing the victim because you identify with a legacy of oppression in the most literal sense of the word, one which was righteously usurped after throwing a cultural temper tantrum and is properly derided as a shameful part of American history today so that it won't be repeated again

Some people really just don't get it. Of course, it wasn't about slavery. It was just about states' rights to perpetuate slavery and have a specific article in the confederate constitution permanently banning the abolition of slavery.

You stormfags honestly make me sick.

>>1877767
Fuck off nigger

>>1877826
What a compelling argument.

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>>1877539

We know that Slave-owners where a tiny minority of the Southern population, so how did they convince so many other southerners, who didn't really benefit from slavery at all, to fight in this dumbass war? Furthermore, why did they believe they would be able to win a war against the more populated, more industrialized, and better educated northern states? They must have believed that they were going to get help from Britain or something. And that might have happened except Britain didn't want to be seen as helping to preserve slavery.

>>1877867
They did benefit from slavery: while blacks were slaves, they were not competition for labour open to freemen.

>>1877539
The North will raze again, fagit

>>1877878
What?

Please see 'Bacon's Rebellion'

>>1877953
>a 1676 event involving white slaves
try again

>>1877958
Bacon's Rebellion led directly to the exclusive use of African slaves in the southern colonies. The white formerly indentured servants were kicked to Appalachia where they languished and their descendants are still languishing. The planter dandies pulled off one of the earliest propaganda programs ever in convincing poor whites that they were in any higher a station than enslaved blacks. They did it so well that rednecks in Tennessee hills still believe the south will "rise again".

>>1877975
>>1877867
Propaganda equal to the Poyais scandal.

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>>1877975
The south will never rise again. The next war will be drawn upon socio-economic and political ties with no clear boundaries between adversaries. It will make Syria look half as bad as it does now.

>>1878039
Based on this criteria I'd say that we're presently in a state of civil war.

>>1878082
If you don't have a modern rifle with a good scope on it yet and at least 200 rounds of ammo, I suggest you and everyone else reading this procure one.

Yes. For real.

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>>1878099
>mrw I live in NY and procuring a rifle is more of a hassle than simply dying in helter skelter

>>1878107
uh not really, you can just go to a dicks or something and buy one

>>1878116
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/firearms_licensing/rifle_licensing_information.shtm

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>>1878099
God damn it Phil, at least keep your cancer to as few boards as possible. No one outside of pol wants to hear about good Germans, state-sponsored sodomy, or about how bi-sexual pedo governors are teaching kindergartners how to masturbate.

No one likes you, Phil. No one.

Remember that.

Looking at the 1860 election as a whole, I can sort of understand why the South seceded. Despite being divided, had the Democrats remained a whole party, they still would have lost by a pretty big margin. Some of you say that Lincoln wouldn't have touched slavery where it existed, you're right, but Lincoln had plans to curb its expansion into other territories. This meant that the South would always be in the minority in terms of being represented by the Federal government. Not to mention, the whole John Brown situation being openly celebrated by the North would have caused some people in the South to become disagreeable with the Union. Didn't Sumter happen because they were sending more men to reinforce the fort? If I were in Davis's shoes, I would have waited it out.

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>>1878143
Speak for yourself, angryfaggot.

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>>1878155
Hey, remember how ass blasted you got after fapping to traps and how your cancer has driven entire boards to shun you? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

>>1878155
that's a pretty weird fetish, getting shot and all...

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>>1878163
Just you, angryfaggot.

And no one cares about your online vendetta except you. You must be some kind of faggot virgin neckbeard or something.

>>1878163
>literally current year
>being homophobic and not fapping to traps
What are you doing senpai?? I mean 4chan was fapping to traps over a decade ago

>>1878128
new york is more than one city

>>1878175
>just you
Nah nobody wants your cancerous ass here.

>>1878187
>he lives in queens

>>1878175
Like five seconds of searching your trip shows pages of people shitting all over you, come on. I see ck, pol, x, int, k, and t, just on the first page. You've been ostracized by so many boards, I don't even know how you can say only I don't like you.

>You must be some kind of faggot virgin neckbeard or something.
>This much projection
I love it

>>1878181
Oh I love me myself some traps, but Phil here got trapped once and got rather upset by it. I just find the overall situation reasonably amusing, as Phil insists on being the utmost moralfag in existence.

>>1878187
If we want to go down this road, I'm fairly sure 'NY' can refer to either the city or the larger state interchangeably.

Regardless, as a former resident of Upstate and a current resident of the City, I'm pretty confident in saying guns are harder to come by than in most states.

>>1877539
t. assblasted cletus.

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>>1877718
>people

>>1877867
About half of white southerners were either slave-owners, or members of slave-owning households. Slave owners were also drastically over represented in the Confederate army.

>Even more revealing was their attachment to slavery. Among the enlistees in 1861, slightly more than one in ten owned slaves personally. This compared favorably to the Confederacy as a whole, in which one in every twenty white persons owned slaves. Yet more than one in every four volunteers that first year lived with parents who were slaveholders. Combining those soldiers who owned slaves with those soldiers who lived with slaveholding family members, the proportion rose to 36 percent. That contrasted starkly with the 24.9 percent, or one in every four households, that owned slaves in the South, based on the 1860 census. Thus, volunteers in 1861 were 42 percent more likely to own slaves themselves or to live with family members who owned slaves than the general population.

>The attachment to slavery, though, was even more powerful. One in every ten volunteers in 1861 did not own slaves themselves but lived in households headed by non family members who did. This figure, combined with the 36 percent who owned or whose family members owned slaves, indicated that almost one of every two 1861 recruits lived with slaveholders. Nor did the direct exposure stop there. Untold numbers of enlistees rented land from, sold crops to, or worked for slaveholders. In the final tabulation, the vast majority of the volunteers of 1861 had a direct connection to slavery. For slaveholder and nonslaveholder alike, slavery lay at the heart of the Confederate nation. The fact that their paper notes frequently depicted scenes of slaves demonstrated the institution's central role and symbolic value to the Confederacy.

Joseph Glatthaar. "General Lee's Army: From Victory to Collapse". March 24 2009. Page 20.

>>1877539
How many times do we have to have this thread?

>>1878238
all day, erry day

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>>1878232
>The fact that their paper notes frequently depicted scenes of slaves demonstrated the institution's central role and symbolic value to the Confederacy.
it also depicted an extremely angry John Calhoun

The one good thing to come out of the civil war was the destruction and reaping of West Virginia the next 100 years after. Now the whole world can see what happens when you trust the N*rth and the fat cat new york bankers who run it. Appalachia is is one of the naturally most cozy landscapes on this continent and a truly unique culture. It is evidence now of what happens when you betray your own and trust the devious northern banking machine. They pillage like huns and have no sense of honour or order.

>>1878366
Also demonstrating the institutions central role.

>>1878366
Wait, does that say that you'll be compensated for confederate dollerydoos with American currency?

>>1878366
I saw one of these ay an antique shop for $50. Should I buy?

>>1877539
It destroyed any chance America had of developing an organic society

>>1877651
Seriously.

>we hate all you Dixie trash

>REEEEE YOU CANT LEAVE BECAUSE WE HATE YOU

We're the ones with autism?

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>>1879703
Well, you flatlands motherfuckers shouldn't have tried to make us go along with your crazy-ass scheme to bust up the Union. We were fine with *you* doing what you wanted, but no. You had to send a column of men up into the hill country to MAKE us fight for a bunch of rich assholes that wanted niggers to have all the jobs and work for nothing.

So we jest kind of naturally figured that if you could see-seed from the Union, we could see-seed from y'all. Mess with the bull you get the horns. Besides, we had our reputation to think of, on account we are all descended from Chuck Yeager.

>>1880134
We need to exploit you and laugh at your """""culture"""""

>when yew rullize yew bin fuckin the mud fer the last 10 minutes 'stead of yer sister

The south would and will btfo the north in a war. Yanks hate guns and hate the millitary.

>>1880446
Wanna know what would happen next?

[COLLAPSE]

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>>1880446
>well i'm a good ol' rebel, now that's just who i-
>BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>>1880446
>Don't want to bully innocent countries means we hate war.

It'll be fun mowing down traitors, no matter where they come from.

>>1877767

>Some people really just don't get it. Of course, it wasn't about slavery.

What is the Cornerstone Address, for $1000, Alex?

>>1877826

>>>/pol/

>>1877633
Beautiful

>>1880446
>Bubba with his hunting rifle
>versus drones dropping bombs killing them and their traitor family from the comfort of a bunker thousands of miles away

Do it, I could use a laugh

>>1880502
>>1882775
Most of the real millitary is in the south Midwest. I guarantee most of us would defect to the southern/Midwestern side rather than staying with the liberal yanks

>>1877549
Not aslong as I keep seeing the "rebel flag" on trucks...

>>1882797
wow i'm glad you can guarantee that, I was worried that your ridiculous argument was founded on the worst anecdotal evidence

>>1878099
>200 rounds
Literally not even firefights worth, 200 is none.

>phil
FUCK OFF. YOU ARE THE WORST TRIPFAG ON ALL OF 4CHAN.

>>1878154
>Didn't Sumter happen because they were sending more men to reinforce the fort?
No. They chimped out worse than the slaves they held in such contempt.

>>1877767
>niggers
>human
lmao okay fuck off faggot.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to keep people who are too stupid and weak to keep themselves. What the hell is the matter with you people? Do yall not have pets? I don't see you freeing your cat or dog.

>>1882904
So white people have a higher IQ than blacks and a right to enslave them. But Jews and asians have a higher IQ than whites and I don't see you bowing down to Shlomo von Shekelberg or Chong Wong to serve as their pets. I don't know what kind of pet owner rapes and whips his dog either, despite occuring frequently during slavery.
Yes, black people are human and fully capable of interbreeding with other races. Wow it's almost like calling them inhuman is an attempt to dehumanize them and thereby justify the atrocities you want to commit. By this logic, the more industrialized and educated north could simply declare Southerners to be inhuman apes and enslave them.

>>1880234
>We need to exploit you and laugh at your """""culture"""""
Which is exactly the point.

Yankees = Autismal Spergelords

>I HATE YOU
>YOU CAN'T LEAVE
>I'LL KILL YOU
>WAIT WE LOVE YOU
>WE HATE YOU
>REEEEEEE

Wew lads. Find a hobby.

>>1882937
>as a disclaimer I hope you understand I am not supporting slavery but instead analyzing the logic behind it

The concept of IQ or even innate, racial intelligence was not present during this time. Racism as we know it didn't exist until much later. At the time it was pure "we are the owners, you are the niggers" and that was that.

Not all the slave owners did that to their slaves. The violence waged against slaves was rarely the owners but instead the overseers. It wasn't even so uncommon that slaves would complain about harsh treatment to the owners who would punish or replace overseers.

Why would the slave master treat his workers poorly and risk them escaping. dying, or being beaten to the point which they could not work. They were whipped only when they truly deserved it.

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>>1877648
>degenerates are exclusive to the regions I don't like
Really got my brainy bits dancing

>>1884176
>Racism as we know it didn't exist until much later
Eh, I have to disagree with this. Some, including myself, would contend that once the indentured servitude of poor whites was phased out and the exclusive use of Africans as non-waged agricultural labor was the point at which 'black' was generated as a distinction from 'white', even if the actual terminology did not arise until later.

>>1884140
>"REE THEY WANT TO DESTROY OUR CULTURE"
>we just want to end the whole slave thing in future states, you can still kee p your-
>"REEE GET THEM"
>no stop please

>>1877539

No.

The South (an unrecognized nation) fired upon a Federal fort.

>inb4 states rights

Literally what is Dredd Scott vs. Sanford

>>1877627

>violently oppress our own people

>"The guy we didn't vote for won office, we're not your people anymore!"
>"Oh shit, wtf, why you oppressing us, we're your people?!"

Saying this as a southerner, too.

>>1884443
Blacks were treated far better in the south. Why do you think they stayed here?

>>1884478
>Why do you think they stayed here?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migration_(African_American)
The ones that stayed were fucked by denbts from sharecropping.

>>1884478

Don't care much about blacks, I just think it's a funny concept that one would complain about "oppressing ones own people" when said people's whole intent was to gtfo and not be "ones own people" anymore.

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>>1877539

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Daily reminder

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>>1878230

>not people

http://web.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/minorities.shtml

>>1880446

>muh south will rise again.

Would very much like to see you get your rifles and pistols and fight with your red neck buddies against drones and highly trained military officers

>>1882904

>blacks aren't human

http://web.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/minorities.shtml

Really made me think

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>>1877539
>mfw I drink Pepsi

>>1885538
Not him but,

>Implying most soldiers aren't from the former confederacy
>Implying American soldiers don't have a higher-than-population rate of confederate tattoos

>>1877627
>we dindu nuffin, we wuz good boys!

Nice try there Cletus.

>>1882797
>South secedes from the Union again
>Neo-Confederate army morale plummets because no black NCOs to whip their white boy cornpone asses in line

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>>1885846
Yeah but the ratio was even worse during the War of Southern autism when almost all of the military's officer corps defected and the few remaining Union generals had to rebuild the army from scratch.

The results would be the same, northern liberals grinding southern conservatives under the weight of their wealth, industrial might, and diplomatic edge, but even worse for the south unless they happen to luck out twice in a row with a rare military genius for a commanding general who didn't even support their cause to begin with but decided to fight for them any way. The Union had no problem smacking the confederates up and down the Mississippi because Lee couldn't be in two places at once.

>literally all southcucks had to do was agree that there wouldn't be slaves in new states

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>>1877627
>slavery was justified

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>>1885925
>slavery wasn't justified

>>1885912
The thing is, making all new states free states would have heavily tipped the electoral math heavily in favor of anti-slavery politicians, and there would be a lot more senators and congressmen from free states than there would have been from slave states, and that could have lead to more anti-slave legislation down the line.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Yankee who'd just as soon call it the Great Southern Chimp Out, so don't take that as excusing them. The most delicious irony is that the harder they fought the worse they made it for themselves. For example the 14th amendment would never have gotten passed if it hadn't been for the fact that the U.S Army had freed and armed so many blacks due to the war dragging on for as long as it did, and they needed to figure out what to do with them all before the war ended so letting them keep their freedom was deemed the most logical choice after a shit load of arm twisting in Washington. This probably would not have happened if Antietam had been a smashing Union success and the war ended then. And it was only under emergency war time powers that Lincoln was able to free the slaves at all.

>>1877648
>Yankees disowning Washington, Jefferson, and Madison

Too late no take backs

>>1878232
>putting blacks on currency before it was PC
>yanks still criticize

>>1885980
>Virginians
>40% of Virginian officers in the United States military, for example, stayed with the Union.[4]
>the second largest source of Southern Loyalists in the Union Army
Virginia's steadily turning blue too. If you keep on waiting to start this civil war, it won't even be on your side.

Why didn't the South just dig really deep pits and put spikes at the bottom of those pits? That way, when the North would invade, they would simply fall into those pits and get really hurt.

>>1886112
>spikes
but what about the poisonous snakes and the lava?

>>1886116
Now, the poisonous snakes I can believe, but lava? That's just plain silly talk!

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>Be American South
>Secede and form own country
>Attack federally owned fort
>Get our asses kicked in a war
>m-muh War of Northern Aggression!

>>1884443
To add onto anon..
>we didn't vote for him
Yeah because in a lot of southern states you didn't put him on the fucking ballot.

>>1886291
>Asses kicked
The south had less men and materials, and they still got a way higher kdr

Anyone else get sort of sad about Reconstruction?
We had such a great chance to destroy the South and their "culture" and punish the traitors but didn't go far enough

>>1886800

>we got a higher kill count

Same could be said for the Vietnamese war, another one of America's failures

Careful you don't cut yourself on that edge OP.

>>1877539
>war of northern aggression
you mean the war of southern rebellion

>>1877627
>violently oppress people
>get mad when violently oppressed

>>1887494
>b-buh they werent people
>they were 3/5 of people that we owned

>>1887494
Blacks were treated worse in the north

>>1886034
>look at Wikipedia source
>source doesn't even mention the 40% number

Oy vey! The vast majority of Virginian soldiers sided with the CSA. It's funny watching the mental gymnastics that Yankees go through when they lionize the earlier Virginian planters and demonize the latter Virginian planters. Pro tip, Washington's entire family sided with the CSA and Arlington house never belonged to Lee but Washington's adopted descendents instead.

>>1886934
Instead you just got millions of blacks in your cities and 300,000 dead yankees. Don't be Butthurt kzewoski, I'm sure the manufacturing jobs will come back.

>>1888226
>. It's funny watching the mental gymnastics that Yankees go through when they lionize the earlier Virginian planters and demonize the latter Virginian planters
Oh you know, there's this funny little issue of slavery exploding after the introduction of the cotton gin rather than gradually diminishing that distinguishes early Virginians from later ones.

Early Virginians were principled but by the time of the civil war, greed had corrupted them and they needed to be put back in their place.

>>1888242
Bitch please, northern manufacturing is stronger than its ever been. Most of the job loss has been a result of automation, and the jobs which shipped overseas were the ones making cheap, commercial junk which wouldn't matter if there was a second Great Southern Chimp Out.

>>1888226
>source doesn't even mention the 40% number
Are you illiterate? The source is listed as
>http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/19/the-general-in-his-study/?_r=0
Ctrl + F
>Moreover, the Army, which another daughter called Lee’s “home and country,” was also divided: forty percent of Virginian officers would remain with the Union forces.

>>1878232
About 1/3 of southern families owned slaves, not one half. Unless you're implying that any interaction with a slave owner makes you a member of a slave owning household. Also your green text refers specifically to the confederate army of northern virginia. Don't you think its misleading to imply the entire confederate armed forces has the same statistics?

>>1888257
>slavery exploding after the introduction of the cotton gin

Typical whitewashing of the founders. Slaves made up the same portion of the south's population in 1790 as they did in 1860. The declaration itself complains about the British exciting slave rebellions. The patriots were on the side of slavery, just accept it.

>>1888706
>The patriots were on the side of slavery, just accept it.
They also believed the vote extended only to land-owning white males, but I don't fault them for that. Times, circumstances and sentiments were not the same in 1861 as they were in 1790.

>>1888706
>Slaves made up the same portion of the south's population in 1790 as they did in 1860.
>http://teacherweb.com/CA/DodsonMagnetSchool/TBaumann/3-Redone.pdf
>http://www.civil-war.net/pages/1860_census.html

>Virginia - 39% (1790) > 31% (1861)
>North Carolina - 26% (1790) < 33% (1861)
>South Carolina - 42% (1790) < 57% (1861)
>Georgia - 35% (1790) < 44% (1861)
So 3/4ths of the original 13 colony slave states had more slaves than before.

Only in Virginia (the state where a whole hunk of the population straight up seceded from Virginia to remain in the Union), Delaware and Maryland (both of which remained loyal of the Union) did the percentage of slaves decrease from 1790 to 1861. Really makes you think.

>>1884176
This anon gets it. I don't beat my dog and cat. Especially if they can work.

>>1887955
apples and oranges

>>1885830

pepsico is run by an indian lady immigrant

coca cola is run turkroach