>the Holocaust has reached the point of historical divinity

>>1870663

They would begin to call you a fucking moron if you ignored the prime sources and historical artefacts.

>>1870663
Why can't you just accept that you're a fucking moron?

>>1870663

>How did this happen?

Well, you started off by having well documented proof.

Then, you had groups like the IHR getting founded, who raised really weak objections, often openly calling for Neo-nazi revivals and anti-semitic canards, making it clear that they weren't intellectually honest about it, and rather trying to deny the holocaust as means to push an agenda.


They became so obnoxious and visible about it that the usual initial assumption is that people who are "just asking for some information" are in fact trying to push the ideological agenda again, and not in fact disinterested academics looking for evidence.

>>1870685
>>1870680
My point exactly, you see what I mean?

>>1870695
Fucking moron.

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>>1870663
Jews are a sacred cow in the west, to question even the exact details of the holocaust is to engage in a hate crime against the Jews.


The Holocaust definitely happened, but the exact scale and details are often distorted or exaggerated. It's hard to say to what extent that is, and any attempt to look into it is met with shame tactics and insults.

It's fucking stupid, and I guarantee someone would've responded to this post accusing me of being a /pol/ack if I didn't include this inb4. Hell, someone might still accuse me of it.

>>1870695

What, that people call you a moron if you act like a moron?

>>1870744
>deny Armenian Genocide
>get liberal talkshow

>deny Holocaust
>get run out of town

>>1870744

Counter-example: Ordinary Men by Chris Browning.

It questioned the "exact details", hell, it even overturned some long standing beliefs in the academic world. To my knowledge, nobody has accused Mr Browning of a hate crime.

>>1870695

We're the reason you cannot accept that you are a fucking moron?

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>>1870663
>>spherical earth has reached the point of historical divinity that to ask for proof is to be a denier
how do I comedy you accurately though half of you /pol/es believe that too

>>1870785

You actually believe that the holocaust has as much photographic evidence as round earth?

>>1870744
>The Holocaust definitely happened, but the exact scale and details are often distorted or exaggerated

No, not really. ~5.8M Jews were murdered by Axis, some of them shot on sight, some of them gassed, some of them worked to death.

What is there to question? Little details like if some jew who makes dosh on being "holocaust survior" is not actual holocaust survivor? Its perfectly OK to do that.

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>>1870767
The Armenian Genocide is actually a pretty great equivalent.

It definitely happened, but both sides try very hard to twist the narrative in their favor. And only one side of the discussion is treated with respect.

>>1870769

The exact details that Mr. Browning questions aren't really about the holocaust proper as much as the men who took part in the holocaust.

Mr. Browning was overturning the idea that the men who took part in the Holocaust were unique. As he points out, they were very average, with western morals, who (like literally 90% of humanity) will do evil things when put in a seemingly no-win peer-pressure situation.

>>1870796
But see, if it was ~5.8 million Jews, why is the claim always that there were 6 million victims?

That's giving or taking 200,000 people. That's a lot of fucking people who either were or were not victims of genocide.

>>1870663
>historical divinity

EXCUSE ME. In our society it is perfectly legal and socially acceptable to blaspheme God or say that He doesn't exist, while saying that the Holocaust didn't happen or even just making a joke about it will land you in prison for year and subject you to a lifetime publication ban. The Holocaust isn't a god. No, our society has raised a bunch of dead Jews even above God.

>>1870663
Guys, I know people say Columbus discovered americas, but, where is the proof?

Does America exist? I don't know, I haven't seen the proof...
I want the proof. And none of those lies from the media, history teacher or primary sources (all counterfeit by the global spanishry).

Is is so wrong to post proof?

>>1870792
I believe every day nazi larpers leak here from their containment board to shitpost about it

if you really, really honest pinky swear aren't one of them then the reason you got treated like that is because you act exactly like them and it is more than a reasonable assumption at this point.

but you are. you want to believe nazi shit because you thought that'd make your mom think you're a grownup or something. it doesn't. she's asking herself where she went wrong to make you grow up retarded. there's no way to salvage your life at this point. it won't be getting better. off yourself and save the human race some embarrassment.

>>1870828

But you at least see how you're discouraging discourse and preventing critical thinking, yea?

>>1870796
>~5.8M Jews were murdered
What you just wrote is illegal to publish in many countries. Even saying 5,999,999 Jews died is verboten. It's either 6,000,000 or bust. Weird that it's such a round number with so much historical religious significance to Judaism, but there it is.

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>>1870792
>photographic evidence

Actually yes, there's only about 10 actual, non-composite pictures of Earth and a lot of them are from very very far away.

>>1870812
>That's a lot of fucking people who either were or were not victims of genocide.

3,3%? Do you really want to be butthurt over 3,3%? One can be happy the average pleb remembers more about WW2 than just scenes from war movies.

>>1870839
>My feefees determine the reality

Congratulation anon, you have Autism!

>>1870823
>even just making a joke about it will land you in prison for year

Where do you live? France? pfft

>>1870695
People don't like you because you think you are being slick and outsmarting them, but everyone knows your first statement will inevitably be followed with some really stupid shit. You're not sneaking anything past anyone, your argument is not your own and we've seen it a million times.

>>1870847

And there's zero photos of any Jews being put into a gas chamber.

The point still stands.

>inb4 Germans wouldn't take pictures of their crimes

But there's pictures of literally everything else. The trains, the ghetto liquidations, even the crematoriums where the typhus dead were burn. Even the goddam Einsatzgruppen are backed by photographic evidence.

Why the single, solitary bit of self-conscious with the "gas chambers"

>>1870835
>discouraging discourse and preventing critical thinking, yea?

The holocaust is probably one of the best researched historical events.
Facts are abound, either from the american, english, french, german, israeli or soviet historicans and researchers.

From documents and censuses of dozens of different countries, including the 3rd reich.
From personal accounts, soldier accounts, family and friend accounts.
From the actual physical evidence, from the corpses.

And then, after all of that, after the incredibly, almost unbelivable, horiffic thing that happened, the death of millions, all that suffering... some edgy 20 something like >>1870796 comes about and starts to argue about stupid shit he doesn't even know about.

He argues about 200k, when estimates are outside of that range. He argues, not because he is interested in the event as a historical fact, as an unveiling of the inherent horrors each of us are capable of unleasing and receiving, but he argues because of a silly ideology he took up on a whim to roleplay as.

And then him and people like him do it each and every day, until they start to believe their own reality they've constructed around themselves without factuality.
We humans are indeed pretty strange, don't you think...

>>1870881

>it is impossible to disagree with aspects about the Holocaust without being a Neo-nazi

You see what I mean?

>>1870839
Yeah, and it shouldn't be illegal, but this thread isn't about the illegality of Holocaust denial it's about the historical fact of the Holocaust.

Why are you conflating the two? The reason why many European nations have laws against it is because they are guilty and are overcompensating. It's not a (((Them))) conspiracy.

>>1870881
>some edgy 20 something like >>1870796 (You) comes about and starts to argue about stupid shit he doesn't even know about.

Are you sure you are quoting the right post?

>>1870907

>>1870812

>>1870881

We are evil enough to imagine a holocaust.

We are evil enough to enact a holocaust.

We are evil enough to deny a holocaust.

>>1870905
But that is the single best argument against the Holocaust. You don't need to jail people to make them believe the truth. Only lies need enforced.

>>1870839
Can you show me some proof of your claim? :^)

>>1870968
>reading comprehension

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>deny armenian genocide
>nobody cares

>deny holodromor
>get angry liberals telling you stalin was just a TV sitcom dad and accidentally fumbled his way to a genocide

>deny holocaust
>OYYYYYYY VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY and your career is ruined forever

hm....could this be because jewish people own the media, and the media shapes our society and political discourse? No..that couldn't be. I'm sure if Armenains owned the media it would be totally different ;^)

>>1870663
>that to ask for proof is to be a denier
People who ask for proof are given, proof they simply reject it

>>1870785
Round earth still requires proof before you accept it, most people do because it's ubiquitous.

>>1871007
>deny armenian genocide
>"fuck off turk"

>deny holodomor
>"fuck off dirty commie ruskie"

>deny holocaust
>"fuck off nazi"

>"OY VEY, da joos, see the inherent anti-fascism inherent in the system"


??? ???

>>1870663

The reason why people think you're a fucking moron is because nobody can live in this day and age and be unaware of the plethora of evidence there is for the holocaust happening, or even oblivious to the immense amount of work it would take to fabricate all that evidence, without being a fucking idiot

>>1871040
>>1871008

I'm always amazed how long claims of proof can go on without being substantiated

>>1871028
The first two are never done by the left and rarely by the right.

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>>1871028
>>fuck off dirty ruskie

We must not be browsing the same boards because every time the holodomor is brought up, there's an army of retards trying to say that stalin didnu nuffin


The holocaust is the only genocide that people get super butthurt about. Nobody cares about the holodomor, not even the fucking jews. You'd think they would care, but the fact that they don't shows what their true intentions are in pushing the holocaust so hard. If they truly cared they would support ukrainians or the aremenians but they don't.

Jews even told Ukrainians to fuck off because they were stealing the jews sympathy. Jews don't give a fuck about the 6 gorillion they just want permanent victomhood and sympathy points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_aXtU0cd4w

>jews show up to holodromor awareness group
>tell them that they need to literally shut it down because oy vey you are stealing our sympathy

Judge a tree by its fruit...and the fruit they produce is dogshit

>>1871046
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html

You can start reading anytime.

>>1870835
just because you are doing a thing doesnt mean you are doing it hard enough to break anything.

I mean really did you make this thread because someone assumed something hurtful about you? yes. I don't think permanent damage has been done there.

>>1871046
Ancel, Jean, editor. Documents Concerning the Fate of Romanian Jewry during the Holocaust. New York: Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, 1986. (DS 135 .R7 D63 1986) [Find in a library near you (external link)]
Arad, Yitzhak, Israel Gutman, and Abraham Margaloit, editors. Documents on the Holocaust: Selected Sources on the Destruction of the Jews of Germany and Austria, Poland, and the Soviet Union. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1999. (D 804.19 .D63 1999) [Find in a library near you (external link)]


Berenbaum, Michael, editor. Witness to the Holocaust. New York: HarperCollins Publishers, 1997. (D 804.19 .W58 1997) [Find in a library near you (external link)]


Crew, David F. Hitler and the Nazis: A History in Documents. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2005. (DD 253 .C67 2005) [Find in a library near you (external link)]


Friedlander, Henry, and Sybil Milton, editors. Bundesarchiv of the Federal Republic of Germany, Koblenz and Freiburg. New York: Garland, 1993. (Reference D 810 .J4 A735 1989 v.20) [Find in a library near you (external link)]


Hill, Jeff. The Holocaust. Detroit, MI: Omnigraphics, 2006. (D 804.19 .H55 2006) [Find in a library near you (external link)]


Hochstadt, Steve. Sources of the Holocaust. New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2004. (D 804.19 .S68 2004) [Find in a library near you (external link)]

Klamper, Elisabeth, editor. Dokumentationsarchiv des Österreichischen Widerstandes, Vienna. New York: Garland, 1991. (Reference D 810 .J4 A735 1989 v.19) [Find in a library near you (external link)]


Mendelsohn, John, editor. The Holocaust: Selected Documents in Eighteen Volumes. New York: Garland, 1982. (Reference D 810 .J4 H645 1982) [Find in a library near you (external link)]
Happy reading.

The holocaust did happen. Though I agree holocaust denial laws are unjust, they also give holocaust deniers notoriety.

>>1871078
>>1871046


Now I wait how you dismiss a few thousand pages without reading a single one of them by saying something about how they're all jews.

>>1871061
>because every time the holodomor is brought up, there's an army of retards trying to say that stalin didnu nuffin

See this very thread you're in?

>because every time the holocaust is brought up, there's an army of retards trying to say that hitler didnu nuffin


The only thing about the armenian genocide is that it's only so many turks that bring it up very rarely.

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>>1871061
>this video

You'd think jews would have all the sympathy in the world for other people who have been subjected to genocide

What the fuck is this shit, wtf I'm an anti semite now

>>1871052
>first two are never done by the left
Cenk pls go.

>>1871090
>conveniently ignoring the rest of my post

Your entire premise is a fucking bullshit because just like >>1871052 said nobody does those for the first two.

>>1871040
Really? Because the average person doesn't know a single proof for it, and the average history class will never provide proof for half the stuff they claim including the holocaust (mainly because the average school sucks and they have no interest into actually teaching critical thinking, if they were they'd convince rather than just tell)

>Inb4 muh holocaust denier/nazi hurr
Read.

>>1871118
Basically, you're saying we shouldn't rely on proof by authority in no matter?

Cause I'd argue that begets the fall of civilisation...

Or are you autistic enough to suggest 15 year olds should scour through primary sources about every single thing during their few hours of weekly history lectures?

I believe the holocaust did happen but the one thing that really makes me think is that nobody ever debunked or explained why the "gas chamber" doors were made out of fucking wood, why no mass graves were ever found, and why chemical analysis of the supposed gas chambers turns nothing up when it does in modern gas chambers

In all actuality what I believe did happen was yes, a shit ton of jews died in WW2. Mostly due to shitty living conditions and disease. And after the war, jews being jews, made up a bunch of embellished insane bullshit like "we wuz soap" to farm sympathy so they could get Israel.

>>1871134
Oh and also why in literally ZERO of the post-war autobiographies from people like patton, eisenhower, etc, don't mention anything like ovens or gas chambers or any shit like that.

>All of the gas chambers were on the Soviet Side of the iron curtain
REALLY MAKES YOU THINK...

>>1871134
>I believe the holocaust did happen but the one thing that really makes me think is that nobody ever debunked or explained why the "gas chamber" doors were made out of fucking wood,


If you're talking about the Auschwitz ones, it's because they're reconstructions, and in fact say so in the tours. The camp has an order for "airtight doors", you did know that, right?

>why no mass graves were ever found,

There were mass graves found. Hell, there were mass graves photographed.

>and why chemical analysis of the supposed gas chambers turns nothing up when it does in modern gas chambers

That's simply false.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/post-leuchter.report

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>>1871134
>why no mass graves were ever found

hello there my fellow nazi

>>1871118
>Really? Because the average person doesn't know a single proof for it,

Auschwitz exists, and everyone knows that.
Everyone has read a testimony on it, that's another one.

So you're just wrong.

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>>1871148
That isn't true, /pol/. Eisenhower specifically states in his autobiography that he knew there would be edgy assholes like you, and set about documenting the death camps as best he could. There's even motion picture footage. See?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3uqAasdKU

>>1871161
>55 million people died in WW2
>find a mass grave which probably wasn't hard to do
>claim they wuz dead jews

I can't in good conscious believe a people who have literally done nothing but lie since they sprung up 2500 years ago

>>1871134
Zyklon B is lethal in quantities too low to leave residue that's detectable after a few weeks/months.

But I absolutely agree with the general sense that the Jews really took advantage of the Holocaust.

>>1871126
What?
>Proof by authority
We defer to them, but for BASIC subjects and for their general lives people should have the skill to spend some time actually looking up for proof.
Are you one of those tards that thinks society is better off with unquestioning loyalty of the people to "authority"?
Because that's the only way you'd comprehend what I posted as you did.

Plus
>>>Authority says so
Is a fallacy, specially considering the quality of your average his major.

>>1870663
In case you missed it OP, you got an actual response here: >>1870688

The post number even has your favorite double-digit number in it.

Here's the post in greentext in case you are too tired to click on the link:

>Well, you started off by having well documented proof.

>Then, you had groups like the IHR getting founded, who raised really weak objections, often openly calling for Neo-nazi revivals and anti-semitic canards, making it clear that they weren't intellectually honest about it, and rather trying to deny the holocaust as means to push an agenda.


>They became so obnoxious and visible about it that the usual initial assumption is that people who are "just asking for some information" are in fact trying to push the ideological agenda again, and not in fact disinterested academics looking for evidence.

>>1871177
ok then, you can read up on proof here

>>1871078
>>1871065

happy reading (we all know you won't read a single page though)

>>1871164
I think you have a very very very idiotic view of what "everyone" knows.

If the camps used their gas chambers for gassing Jews, then where did they delouse their blankets?

>modern crematory with ovens thrice as hot as the ones back then take like two days to burn a skeleton to ashes

>somehow shitty ovens from 1940 that couldn't even get nearly as hot burned 17,000 skeletons a day

This is the one I've never actually seen explained.

>>1871214
Superior nazi engineering.

>>1870880
Dunno, ask the nazi Germans.

>>1871214

>This is the one I've never actually seen explained.

Really? You must either not have been looking very carefully or are keeping your eyes wide shut.

Modern cremation is an attempt to get a uniformly fine ash to place in a little urn for the grieving family. You heat up the oven, burn the body (often inside the coffin), make sure no ash escapes, cool it down, and clean it up before throwing in another body.

You could save a lot of time by just throwing on bodies, and in fact, even 19th century ovens, more primitive still, were capable of rendering an adult human body to ash in under an hour.

https://ia902607.us.archive.org/11/items/cremationdead00eassgoog/cremationdead00eassgoog.pdf

You can go faster still by say, burning multiple bodies at the same time.

>>1871214
Why do you lie on the internet?

>>1871203
If a Wehrmacht soldier used his clothes to keep himself warm, how did he shield himself from rain?
If he used bullets to kill enemies, how did he hunt boars?
If he used fuel to power generators, how did he drive tanks?

>>1871237
You're telling me that the guards deloused their own uniforms and blankets in the same gas chambers where hundreds of Jews were pumping out their bowels every hour?

Can't wait for the next identical thread in 5 hours.

I think the walls of sources should just be posted early on in, that seems to calm down the autistic children a bit.

>>1871269

I haven't noticed. It usually just has them ignore it and shout JOOOZ

>>1870812

>being so autistic that you get triggered over popular history rounding up a large number

>>1870968
You can go ahead and believe every opinion that dumb euros outlaw just to be contrarian if you want

>>1871214

>a modern crematorium that burns bodies one at a time, with as much care and respect as possible, making sure to save and store individual ashes and needing to obey hundreds of specific regulations, is slower than crematorium used to dispose of as many corpses as possible, as fast as possible, with noone giving a shit about the corpses because they weren't even REALLY people anyway

No shit

>>1871195

I bet you 49 out of 50 people know about Auschwitz because we're all spoonfed with it.

>>1871264

Or, get this for an insane idea, they had more than one gas chamber?

>>1871412
I bet 49 out of 50 people know about Lewis and Clark because they were spoonfed it. Do you think we should just heavily use primary sources for teaching plebs?

>>1870839
No it isn't you complete twat. People argue over the full scope of the Holocaust all the time, and have done so for decades. Only outright denying it happened is illegal.

Saying shit like this proves you know nothing about the academic realities and are just regurgitating /pol/ memes.

>>1871427

Auschwitz is a place. I can point at it.
Also, everyone read some kind of Holocaust memoire in their youth through school. The evidence is everywhere.

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>>1870703
You are literally the most based shitter on this board.

Never.

Change.

>>1871424
Okay. So where are the delousing ones?

If someone asked for proof that WWI happened, they'd be called retarded

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>>1871061
> Jews even told Ukrainians to fuck off because they were stealing the jews sympathy.

Indeed, there was an article several months back about the Poles, Ukrainians, Czechs, Balts and other Eastern Europeans who had been subject to Soviet rule, signing some agreement to set up a museum addressing the genocide of their peoples by the communist Soviets (many of whom were Jews) and the Jews started screaming that the terms “genocide” and “holocaust” were _exclusively reserved_ for crimes against the Jews and could not be used in any other context and have threatened to sue the proposed museum.

>>1870915
Who is the Germanic?

>>1871061
>>1871658
Natalie Portman had a bit controversy last year when she said that the holocaust was focused on too much and people should learn about other genocides

"I was shocked that that [the Rwandan genocide] was going on while I was in school. We were learning only about the Holocaust and it was never mentioned and it was happening while I was in school. That is exactly the type of problem with the way it’s taught. I think it needs to be taught, and I can’t speak for everyone because this was my personal education,” she told The Independent.

“We need to be reminded that hatred exists at all times and reminds us to be empathetic to other people that have experienced hatred also. Not used as a paranoid way of thinking that we are victims. Sometimes it can be subverted to fear-mongering and like ‘Another Holocaust is going to happen.’” Holocaust survivor advocates were quick to condemn Portman’s comments.

“While I agree with Natalie Portman that hatred exists in every part of the world, our area included, her understanding of the Holocaust seems limited,” Colette Avital, the chairwoman of the Center of Organizations of Holocaust Survivors in Israel, told The Jerusalem Post on Sunday.

“Natalie should understand that the Holocaust which befell us cannot be compared to other tragedies – our empathy notwithstanding. It was not merely hatred, it was a policy whose aim was to systematically wipe out a whole people from the face of the world,” she explained. “I agree that the education we give our children should not encourage a continuous sense of being the eternal victims. The lessons to be drawn from the Holocaust are that life should be sanctified, and that we should be more humane. What should be taught is also the incredible resilience of our people who have risen from the ashes, rebuilt their lives and built a country of their own."

>>1871833
>Natalie should understand that the Holocaust which befell us cannot be compared to other tragedies

And this is one of the reason everybody hates Jews.

>Jews kill every last Canaanite
It's ok goy, YHWH said we're the chosen people.

>Germans kill some Jews
OY VEY

>>1872027
I think
>It was not merely hatred, it was a policy whose aim was to systematically wipe out a whole people from the face of the world
is the worst part

that's basically the definition of a genocide and she is 100% playing the victim like Natalie said

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There never was a holocaust. But there will be.

>>1872145
This, to be quite honest.

>>1871227
Why do none of the mass graves then, show evidence of charring?

Sepulchers of ancient Carthage turn up charred infant skeletons that lend credence to the Roman testimony of child sacrifice over 2000 years ago, but Nazi camps from 50 years ago, no remnant of burnt bodies can be found.

Ok.

>>1872237

>We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of 15ft. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay. That means that in the final stage the victims were burned," said Andrzej Kola, an archaeologist. He said the largest grave measured 210ft by 75ft, the others 60ft by 75ft.

It's really a dogmatic secular religion, with its own martyrs, holy texts, holy sites and yearly peregrination to them to ask forgiveness.

The first Israel was built upon the myth of slavery in Egyptian.

The current one on the myth of the German captivity.

>>1872068
best part is that the conquest never happened and they were Canaanites

>>1872374
ayyyyyyy

>>1872361
pol BTFO!!!

>>1872068

I'm not sure there's any Jew alive today who'd argue that their past actions of genocide were a good thing

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Remember when Poland and Israel reduced the death count at Auschwitz from 4 million to 1 million?

No?

Nobody else does either.

But it fucking happened.

>>1871172
All the death camps were on soviet occupied territory so Eisenhower's footage wasn't from death camps.