Why was Satan in heaven?

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>>1868075
He was called Lucifer then.

>>1868079
But if God knows everything and is omnipresent then why someone who is going to betray you and take a shit ton of your kingdom with them be in heaven?

>>1868075
Do you have the verse?

>>1868079
No he wasn't

>>1868093

Take a hint from Taoism:

The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao

>>1868102
Explain this is a way retards can understand

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>>1868099
Who said these words:

>‘I will ascend into heaven,
>I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
>I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
>On the farthest sides of the north;
>I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
>I will be like the Most High.’

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>>1868093
God is not a tyrant, even the angels could choose.

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>>1868104

>>1868111

Your trips compel me.


Basically, what you think of as God is not God. It's impudence to think that the way you understand God is the way God is. Is the god the source, or is the god a human manner of conceiving of the force and energy that supports the world? In our tradition God is a male. This male and female differentiation is made, however, within the field of time and space, the field of duality. If God is beyond duality, you cannot say that God is a "He." You cannot say God is a "She." You cannot say God is an "It." God is a mystery that absolutely transcends all human categories of thought, even the categories of being and non-being - those are categories of thought. It's as simple as that.

>>1868129
But if he's omniscient, he already knows what they'll choose.

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>>1868126
Uhhhh... Melek Tawus?

>>1868134

I meant to include good and evil in the list of categories as well.


God is not 'the good' that is versus 'the evil' which Satan represents, that's just human conception.

If you want take a biblical quote, take it from Jesus himself : "For he (God) gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike."

>>1868126
He said he will do that, as in that's what his goal is. He didn't say he did that.

>>1868126
Helel ben sahar;

This is what the Lord says through Isaiah
>you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

This taunt mentions "Lucifer", but in Hebrew it is "Helel ben Sahar" or "Helel, son of morning" and is mistranslated in Latin as Lux (light) fer (bear) bring light/morning star. It is actually a reference to the Babylonian

>>1868132

Yes, that looks exactly like the kinda person you want at the reins of what constitutes true divinity...

>>1868075
Hell if I know.

>>1868153
>And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

So this is someone else? ??

>>1868174
he was originally an angel that was cast out from heaven. Don't tell me you don't know that?

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>>1868140
And allows them to choose it.

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>>1868168
The Fear Of The Lord is Pure And Endures Forever.

>>1868176
>>1868176
You really need to quote the Bible.

>>1868174
In a way yes and no, because these Old Testament references especially Isaiah mentions a Babylonian king and the power of wicked rulers who become deified and exalt themselves over the Most High.

>>1868159
Aha that makes sense. God bless you brother.

>>1868176
No I thought it was the same as Lucifer but thanks to the above anon I get it now.

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Does it ever explicitly say in genesis that the serpent is satan? Or is that some kind of fan fiction thing added later.

>>1868189
Lucifer doesn't exist.

What does exist is pride of a wicked nation. The Prophets, peace be upon them, are warning about a ruling class of kings who are deified, this is mainly the Babylonians. We can't blame Satan or Lucifer, it is the ruler they reference that oppresses Israel, which represents all of God's people, and the Babylonian is the oppressor.

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>>1868195
Well Satan just means "adversary" and the serpent was certainly adversarial.

>>1868134
>what you think of as god is not god
Hmmmmmmmmmmm

>>1868200
"lesatan" is often used as a verb to mean "oppose/obstruct" and in Job, the Lord speaks to "Hassatan"

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>>1868215
The Enemy is always up to something.

>>1868195
The serpent was originally just a serpent, satans were any adversary, and one particular angel had a job of being Satan and testing people's faith.

Eventually, that angel developed into someone opposing God rather than someone who worked for him. Revelation identifies this figure with the serpent.

>>1868221
enemy*

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>>1868245
There are many enemies.

>>1868254
"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"

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>>1868268
Amen.

>>1868134
So then what exactly does "created in his image mean" and why does the Old Testament describe God as literally existing inside the Ark of the Covenant?

>>1868075
The Garden of Eden was on Earth, not in Heaven.

Paradise is not the same place as Heaven, get it together people, this is theology 101.

>>1868075
He was a jinn, sent in an foreign exchange program

>>1868215
>le satan

Fucking redditors

>>1868238
>Revelation identifies this figure with the serpent.

Where? Not questioning you, it's just that Revelations as a whole seema like an uninteligible shitfest (also I have bad memory). I get you're not suposed to read that part literally, but not what the non-literal meanings are. What does the serpent being sudenly satan mean?

>>1868456

A “conversation” was needed through the duality of spirit and matter. He created outer reality as a reflection of Himself, therefore reality is not an illusion but a revelation, a manifestation of divinity. If God had known Himself absolutely, there would have been no need for humans created in His image as mirrors much less any evolutionary necessity to evoke even greater knowing at a conscious level.

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>>1868104


More people seriously need to read Jung's "Answer to Job"

Just read the entirety of pic related actually, Answer to Job is at the end.

>>1868140
he can predict what they'll choose with high percentage accuracy. But we have free will, and I guess spontaneity cannot be accounted for. Its a way to keep god entertained without knowing for sure what might be next.

There's this great bit in the Lucifer comics where Lucifer makes his own Paradise, where he creates a man and a woman and just tells them to do whatever the fuck they want. An angel sneaks in to get revenge on him by teaching them order.

>>1869527
>by teaching them order
The whole concept sounds cool except for this part. There'd be a naturally formed hierarchy before an angel came and taught it, just like there is in the animal kingdom.

I would have kept it as teaching good and evil, the dichotomy of slave morality.

>>1868075
He was a pretty boy

>>1871541
For you.

In Kagerou Daze, the serpent is a being that can only exist through the continual denial of creation. It offers to grant wishes to those it calls master, but accepting the offer means that the master believes the world to be flawed. From there, it brings an end to creation and everything starts again.

>>1868456
Always thought "Created in his image" meant that we had souls and the possibility to ascend, unlike everything else on Earth.

>>1868075
Because Satan in the Old Testament isn't the bad guy but God's prosecutor tasked with making sure your dumb ass doesn't get paradise.

>>1868099
Book of Job mate.

>>1868075
>>1868079
>accepting Christian retcons
The snake is just a snake. Why would God curse all snakes for something Satan did while he happened to be in the form of a snake? That's not fair.

>>1869510
So god is not omniscient then?

>>1868140
I'm curious what people will bitch about
>People are allowed to do what they want
>OMG HE LET EVIL HAPPEN
>People are incapable of choosing & are practically robots
>OMG NO FREEDOM HES A TYRANT
>Somewhere inbetween
>OMG WHY HE ONLY GIVE HALF FREEDOM NOT FULL

>>1868140
So?

How does knowledge of an event cause that event to happen?

>>1873571
the knowledge about the event isn't the cause.

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>>1873401
people bitch about it being nonsense.

if he's omnipotent everything has been already decided by him, so what's the point.
he created lucifer knowing was going to happen.
and created humanity and put the tree there knowing that they were going to sin.

what's the point of everything if you already know what's going to be the result.

>>1873637
So what does God's omniscience have to do with free will?

>>1873667
What's the point of trying to understand a being that by definition is outside human comprehension and explanation?

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>>1873802
>[Actual argument]
>LOL U JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND

>>1868159
That's a theory though.

>>1868075
He was in Garden Eden, not in paradise you moron.

>>1873891
Garden of Eden was paradise, you idiot, it was never on Earth. It was in the East (Whose name is the East, get it?)

>>1873802
what's the point of listening to or following people who are evangelizing over an inexplicable deity?

>>1868102
>the Anglo that can be named is still the eternal Anglo

>>1873220
Since when is God fair?

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>>1873802
>playing the "you can't know nuttin" card

>>1873802
What's the point of deluding yourself into thinking such a cheap cop-out will convince anyone?

Throwing in a theosophical spin;

Suppose there are various different "waves" of life, all of which are separated within gods like the peaks of flames from a fire; the youngest wave constitutes the mineral kindom, which has just begun it's evolution of individual self-consciousness to become an image of god, a co-creator; the plant kindom is a little more progressed, locomotive animals even more so; and human beings, being the elder bretheren of all three, are at a crossing point, turning from a path of involution, descension from spirit to matter, to that of evolution, ascension from matter to spirit; divinizing our bodies, claiming conscious control of material surroundings, claiming our God-given right as co-creators in the plane of our current evolution. Yet we have elder brothers, also; these we call angels.

Yet with freedom comes the possibility to err; not every human being makes full use of his chance to progress spiritually and evolve by increasing his command over the instruments he's been given; some slack off and refuse to work; and God, nature, is not what the new-agers think; species go extinct, it's a very thorough and effective process of trial through error; seeing which sparks will go all the way and which are not strong enough and grow cold.

So some angels erred; some angels slacked. Yet they had evolved to much to simply grow cold and die out; they couldn't follow their pioneer brothers, but were to far evolved to incarnate as humans. Wat do?

Solution; descend onto man, form an amalgam, give him the light of your consciousness, teach him of good and evil, and rely on Him to eventually return to Spirit.

Lucifer spirits are our comrades, allies and teachers; it's a symbiosis.

Or maybe theosophy is some wacky, tripped-out shit. I really dunno mayne.

>>1873392
How would anyone know? The definition of an all mighty, all knowing, all powerful creator is that he is unfathomable to humans. Do I believe any of that shit? I mean I'd like to, just because there are so many people I'd like to see burn in hell, like all the politicians and bankers calling all the shots, people with the nerve to willingly get into an insurance career, how the fuck can the earth tolerate such scum?

>>1873869

That's right.

You think you, a little speck of dust, could understand the very origin of being and existence, something that contains as well as transcends the very concepts of duality?

God can merely be pointed to and referenced via metaphor, any attempt to classify and contemplate it necessarily limits

>>1875162
>>1873392
>>1869510
>>1868140
>>1868129
>>1868093


I think what you're not quite understand is the nature of omniscience. The godhead knows all possibilities, all non-possibilities; you can only experience a single possibility as a consequence of your actions because you are a limited being. Which avenue you choose is up to your will as well as up to random chance.


To quote Schopenhauer: "Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills."

>>1873923
There isn't one. That's my point. There's a reason philosophy moved away from the concept of God.

>>1874391
Card applies when were talking about shit no one can begin to understand. It's an endless discussion with no end.

>>1874556
Only thing I'm trying to convince anyone of is that this topic is a bottomless pit and all anyone can do is spit out an opinion with half baked assumptions.

>>1875175
Yes but, god is not for us to question or understand, only to accept. That's why we call him god, otherwise we'd refer to him as management.

>>1875381

Acceptance in the truest sense because I don't think God demands anything of us. Only man demands. Love at its most fundamental is acceptance. I don't think this life is a test, it is a gift only

>>1875163
Yeah, that argument was fine when we were one step above mud huts but it's getting real stale.

>>1875571

Are you suggesting that just because we have more advanced tools that our minds are more capable of understanding absolute infinity? Because I think we've only made baby steps at best.

>>1873881
I guess the point in that post is that it is a mistranslation, the Lucifer character doesn't actually exist, but the Babylonian king mentioned in Isaiah did.

Though if you add the "lore" of "Lucifer" we find that when one lifts themselves higher than the Most High, they are brought low (hell); and when the captives in Isaiah 14 take rule over their captives, the low are made high.
Like Jesus says:
>…11The greatest among you shall be your servant.
>12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

When we are filled with pride, we are cut down; when we are filled with humility, we are lifted. "Lucifer" (the ego) lifts himself up, and is cast into darkness. Jesus, the greatest among us, becomes a servant, then is lifted up.

>>1868075
Satan "was" in "Heaven"...

The Son of Man was on Earth

Satan lifts himself higher than God, and therefore is cast down by God. Jesus goes lower than Satan by descending into Hell, and He lifts up the sinners.

>>1868075

To lead the assembly of angels in the worship of God.

>>1875936
And the spiritual king over the king of Babylon, satan, does exist.

See, the human king of Babylon was never in Eden.

Never on the mountain of God.

Never cast down to the earth.

>>1873220

How could the snake be a snake, when it was cursed to lost its legs?

Do snakes have legs?

No, the word for enchanter, for reptilian being, for serpent, come from the same root. Revelation confirms that the same devil that was cast out of heaven was the devil in the Garden of Eden, the serpent, who has been known by a misnomer, lucifer, for quite some time now.

Nobody knows his real name; nobody on earth, that is.

inb4 guesses that start with esses.

>>1875968
The king of Babylon (worldly leaders of corruption) represents the kingdoms that oppress Israel (the children of God). We do not blame Satan, but we blame the people who act as Satan. It is humans who entertain their own ego and lust for power, and is personified by "Lucifer" or "Satan", which pride themselves like the deified emperors of Babylon, or act as a power that attempts to destroy the presence of God.

>>1876074
>Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes.

The only way to defeat this "army of darkness" is by using the "armor of God". The army of darkness is our own mind and the powers that act as the "authorities of darkness".


> 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Paul tells us, in this very low quality summary I'm posting, that there is a scheme against heaven, and the powers of darkness is the enemy. There are authorities on Earth that act as this dark force, and the dark power is manifest through people.

>13Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand.…

This armor is a shield against the dark force. This force is the ego, and is also the force of oppression, hence the "kingdom of Babylon" which oppresses "the Kingdom of Israel"; in other words, the world tries to overcome the spirit

>>1876074
Satan and those people are in the same rebellion.

The idiotic assertion that there is no satan because Isaiah is talking about a man, and then switches to talking about the spiritual power over that man, is absurd.

All places have spiritual authority over their temporal authority. All places.

>>1876160
The shield is a shield. It is faith.
The sword is a sword. It is the word of God.
The helmet is a helmet. It protects your head. It is salvation.
The breastplate is a breastplate. It is the righteousness of Christ Jesus imputed to the believer. It protects the heart.
The belt is a belt. It is the truth. Upon it hangs the sword, and by it a man girds himself for war.
The footwear is footwear. It is the preparation of peace. They are cleated and armored to that a man can stand his ground.

That is the full armor of God, and it is effective against the fiery darts of the wicked one.

>>1868075
He was an angel.

>>1876190
Well I'm not saying Satan doesn't exist, I'm just saying what Christians need to realize is that Satan is manifest through powers in the world. We cannot blame Satan, but wee can blame what acts as a Satan.

It is important to note that Isaiah is talking about a ruler of Babylon at the time it was relevant; how we apply that knowledge today is very important.

On one hand we can say "it's the devil" but what good is that? How does that help anyone? We are blaming something invisible?

The other hand, we see that this "devil" is manifest through actual rulers ("Babylonians"), and God is telling us that in reality, this power is manifest through bad people and through dark schemes against the understanding of spirituality.

So we could say "its the devil" but we need to understand the devil is not invisible in the sky somewhere, the devil is a representation of our own ego, as well as the force that is a corrupted kingdom, and both of these can be easily seen.

>>1876205
I really like this post.

At first, I was like "cheesy" but then it is true, that each part of the armour is a symbol for the Higher Powers that's God arms us with, rather than a literal "armour"..

And defining the symbols with each part of the armour, really good anon

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>>1868079
Lucifer is a mistranslation, an it also doesn't even point to satan. God purposefully will never let satan's name be known, so as to deny him any glory.

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God exists outside of space and time, since they are things he created.
As a being outside of linear existence he can interface with us at any point he chooses, and also may choose not to as well. And if this is a multiverse, well, add that to the mix too.

If he simply poked his senses into the universe at a series of time periods and skimmed through history and gave us some info on key points, can we complain that he didn't tell us about all the inconsequential bullshit in between? He actually doesn't owe us anything. Do you think he gives a flying shit about traffic on the LA freeway on the 7th of November 2005? Would telling ancient people about technology that is currently beyond them be useful to the purpose that he has in telling them anything?

Just cause someone is omniscient doesn't mean they care about the spin of every quark in existence. I mean, that's why he made the universe self sustaining right? So he wouldn't have to fart around manually controlling everything. Of course he can and does when he feels a miracle is needed. But for the most part, he uses the things he's already made, (angels etc.) so as not to invalidate the fact the he made everything to function on their own.

>>1876261
Has the phrase "there are none good but God" completely escaped your attention?

Yes, the devil is evil.

Yes, men are evil. Maybe even more evil than the devil.

And no, blaming the devil for all of the evil in the world isn't useful, at all, in any sense of the word.

You may not be reading the news in this light, but currently the Babylonian empire and the Medo-Persian empire are fighting the Assyrian empire for control over Ninevah.

>>1876294
Lucifer is a mistranslation of Helel ben Shachar.

Helel ben Shachar is a real entity, a real angel who really fell from heaven and became the devil. Satan = the devil = Lucifer = Helel ben Shachar, Shining One, Son of the Dawn.

>>1876275
Thanks. It's Paul's.

>>1876362
The very strange thing is his apparent choice a few times in history to come into our earth and be as we are, and not be the omniscient almighty that he is.

Intentionally limiting himself so that he could deal with Moses man to man, and with Abraham man to man.

And with both of them, God to men.

>>1869204
The Dragon, the Ancient Serpent who is Satan, the one who decieved the whole world.

Though it may not originally have meant to identify the serpent in Eden, the connection was pretty easily to make historically as the specific political/metaphorical context of Revelation faded.

>>1869204
Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

To understand the Revelation of Jesus Christ, you have to have a pretty good grasp of the rest of the bible first.

>>1876485
The Revelation is not fading.

It is becoming brighter than the sun.

>>1875976
His name is Heylel or Helel

Are Lucifer and Satan the same being?
Or does it depend on the viewpoint/text?

>>1868093

It's a dumb story. People were easier to fool and didn't spot plot holes back then.

>>1875976

Because knowledge is considered evil in a religion where they need people to stay ignorant to keep believing and following it.

Therefore questioning god at all is the most heinous crime imaginable. The devil symbolises human intellect that needed to be quelled in order to control a population.

>>1876160

Buy the armor of god now! Only infinite payments of 10% of your weekly pay! While supplies last get free access to the gates of heaven by telling old creepy men your deepest darkest secrets!

>>1876891
Knowledge is not evil. Believers of those times were more knowledgeable than believers today. This is because man has taken out the knowledge from other men, so has to have authority over them.

Ask God questions, there is no sin for asking God for wisdom and light.

The devil is not the intellect, the devil symbolizes those who ask you to stray from the Path, it is not his fault that we sin, rather it is our own for allowing ourselves to be deceived.

>>1876858
Lucifer does not exist, but the Babylonian in Isaiah 14 does, and in the Hebrew Bible, the word "lux fer" does not appear.

Pride does exist, which "Lucifer" symbolizes.

>>1868093
Because God wanted that to happen. Works on a level that cannot be understood by humanity, the same way that people can't understand all of a society or a cell doesn't know the entire body.

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>Eden
>Heaven

>>1868093
I had always assumed God knows all possible outcomes, but does not know the paths that we will choose. God can make assumptions on what His creations will do, but choice is our domain.

>>1868126
Snoop dogg?

The Paradox of the Stone isn't what most people think it is.
It has more to do with the limitations of omnipotence itself. This extends fairly reasonably into the limitations of omniscience as well.

An omnipotent and omniscient being could know all that it is possible to know, and be able to do anything it is possible to do, but cannot, by definition, do things that are impossible.

In a world where one or more of these beings existed, I wouldn't be surprised if there were things they could not do and things they did not know.

>>1877169
> but does not know the paths that we will choose
That totaly violates the 'omniscient' clause.

How is god not completely evil in allowing Hell to continue to exist?

No human who has ever lived even comes close to deserving eternal torture.

>>1878148

No, but hell comes pretty close to the self-loathing Christians have for themselves.

Honestly, it really surprises me that there aren't any Christian suicide bombers around. It seems like the perfect end for them, kill the body you hate, while killing the sinners you hate

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>People are still afraid of an ancient Hebrew sky-god
>In the year of our Lord 2016

>>1878192
euphoric

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Satan was Lucifer.
he commanded a mother ship in yahwh's attack fleet when they concurred us the first time. when the pyramids were built.
in the end he stood up to yahwh and was thrown down to earth meaning his mother ship was destroyed and fell to earth.
science its in the bible.
p.s. pic is a demon, they are angels that have fallen aka corrupted coding.

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>>1878195
D E E P E S T L O R E
E
E
P
E
S
T

L
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E

Also, check my digits

>>1868075
Christian theologians have bastardized the word "Satan" for the word "HaSatan". The difference being is that "Satan" just means adversary, or block in the road. In Revelations when Jesus refers to the "Synagogue of Satan" he isn't referring to the Jewish people, but he is referring to Pagans who do not worship the One. Synagogue comes from the Greek root word "Synagoga" and it essentially just means place of worship, or assembly.

Now, the word "HaSatan" means THE adversary. He is His most favored messenger, and it kills me when Christians refer to him as evil.

HaSatan is not "evil", evil is a human concept. None of His creations are good, or evil, they are merciful and just. HaSatan doesn't reside in the Christian appropriation of "Hell" he is everywhere guiding our loyalty to He!

Satan is mentioned in the Quran

>[Iblees] said, "My Lord, because You have put me in error, I will surely make [disobedience] attractive to them on earth, and I will mislead them all
>Except, among them, Your chosen servants."
>[ Allah ] said, "This is a path [of return] to Me [that is] straight.
>Indeed, My servants - no authority will you have over them, except those who follow you of the deviators.

The true believers cannot be misguided, not does Satan have any authority over them. Satan makes his way look attractive, but Satan has no actual authority, only the appearance of it.

This is the straight way, the reason Satan is there is to test our true content. Satan does not do the evil deeds, we do, and when we go to blame "Satan" we can't, we have to own the responsibilities for ourselves.

Satan's purpose is to test us, and when we show we are a true believer, we realize Satan has no power over us.

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>>1879280
>In Revelations when Jesus refers to the "Synagogue of Satan" he isn't referring to the Jewish people

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>>1873571

If I hand a monkey a loaded gun and I know that monkey with its imperfect traits will shoot someone else in the room, we'd blame the person who handed the gun to the monkey, not the monkey.

God made us imperfect with imperfect information about what our events will do.

Then he asks us to pick a religion that all claims to be right and the one true religion (all thousand of them) all the while knowing we are that monkey who is going to start shooting shit up because he handed us a loaded gun.

>>1879825
He is also referring to Christians who say they are Christians but are often deceived and condemn others to hell.

He references the "Jews" who use the occultism, hide it, and take advantage of people. This is called "hiding the keys", no one gets into heaven, not even the ones hiding the keys. They are not Jews at all, real Jews are devoted to the same God as the Christians.

He also, could be very clearly be referencing the Pagans, sure, but perhaps it is all way deeper than that, and perhaps Jesus would even make distinctions between a good one and a bad one.

I guess everyone has individual ideas that all make sense as a united whole

>>1879280
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

>B-but he's not evil, guys. I swear!

Satan (Adversary) = Helel ben Shachar (Shining one, Son of the Dawn) = "Lucifer" (Jerome's piss poor translation of HbS) = serpent = dragon = fallen angel.

Same being.

>>1876725
No, that's not his name. It's a description. >>1879943

>>1876858

Yes.

>>1876891
Men of God question God continuously.

>>1876898
It's pre-paid, actually.

>>1877010
>>1879943

>>1877169
Your choices are your domain because you were created a sovereign free will moral agent.

God knew all of your choices before he made the world.

>>1877583
It's just an example of poor thinking. A paradox is not a "thing" that can be accomplished with power. It is specifically defined as a not thing, that cannot be accomplished no matter the power applied to it.

Omnipotence is the ability to do all things, not the ability to do all things and all not things. God could no more sin than God could make a rock so big he couldn't lift it. Both are not things.

>>1878148
God is just, holy and righteous. The people who choose to go to hell belong there.

>>1878192
kek

>>1879818
Satan is Allah in the Quran.
Satan is Jibrail in the Quran.
Satan is the reason there is a Quran.

>>1879825
Jesus said they professed to be Jews, but were not Jews. They thought they were Jews because they were descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and were part of one of the tribes of Israel.

Jesus told them if that's all he wanted, he would have made such people out of rocks.

The synagogue of satan is everyone that does not end up in heaven. Including those Jews who were counting on their DNA and their attempts to follow the Law.

>>1879891
God made Adam and Eve good.

The serpent deceived Eve, and Adam chose to sin against God and stay with Eve.

They were told "Do not eat this fruit, or you will die."

Do you understand that command? Because I assure you Adam was manifold times more intelligent than you are.

>>1879976
You can meme that all you want, yes Muslims, Christians, and Jews al have the same spiritual adversary. Very clean that Satan and Allah are different beings.

How would you feel is someone called Jesus Satan? Seriously? does that make you feel good? God is Satan? feel better? "no its not true, let me defend why"

> For verily it is thy Lord who is the Master and Creator, knowing all things
That is a reference to God, the Father, Allah

>Your God is One God: As to those who believe not in the Hereafter, their hearts refuse to know and they are arrogant

>>1880005
No, we do not. The muslims worship satan as god.

Trickster. Deceiver. Plotter. Planner.

>>1880005
>That is a reference to God, the Father, Allah

the God of the Jews is not, and never has been, the god of the Arabs.

Allah is Hubal, HaBaal, the Ba'al of the Moabites, Mohammad's father's pagan god who never left the kaaba.

>>1879981
Yeah, he was definitely referring to the silly Pagans and not the Pharisees. xD

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>>1880005
Take your taquiyya and shove it up your fatwa.

>>1880015
Bingo. Islam is the last of the Babylonian cults -- the only belief system extant that explicitly calls for human sacrifice.

>>1879925
>Jews are devoted to the same God as the Christians.

Really? When did Jews follow the Trinity or even accept Christ as their messiah?

>>1880037
>Islam is the last of the Babylonian cults -- the only belief system extant that explicitly calls for human sacrifice.

Didn't know Islam was Judaism.

But that's quite ironic seeing how Christ was sacrificed.

>>1880036
Pharisees and pagans have the same end.

>>1880053
Judaism does not call for human sacrifice, but animal sacrifice.

But the blood of bulls and lambs could only atone for sin, cover it up, for a short time. A year.

The blood of the Lamb of God removed all sin for all time for all people.

When Jesus said "It is finished" (paid in full), he wasn't kidding, he wasn't wrong, and he wasn't mistaken.

>>1879987

If Adam was so smart, why didn't he develop the industrial revolution in 6000 BC?

But really, God gave imperfect reasoning faculties to Adam. He gave him the ability to doubt and be gullible.

Why didn't he create him with perfect faith and obedience?

If he is all powerful, he could have done so.

But instead he gave the option for disobedience we he knew people would fail the test.

If he knew this, why have the experiment anyways?

Its much better to believe in a God who does not know the future because he himself would not know the outcome and leave it to you.

By the way, where in the Bible does it say God knows the future?

If he does, then the predestinationists were right.

>>1879925

"Real Jews" don't exist. God broke his rod and staff back in Nehemiah's time. The Old Covenant is over, but for Daniel's 70th week clean up and completion.

Jesus said if you do not have the Son, you do not have the Father.

Jews do not have the Son or they would be Christians. And Christians have the Father as well.

Because Jesus and the Father are One.

>>1880087
What need do you think Adam had that industrialization would have accomplished for him?

He owned the entire world.

The entire world provided food for him and his wife and family, effortlessly.

He was clothed in the glory of God Himself.

What need do you think he had?

Here's a thought experiment for you. God allowed Adam to name all of the animals on earth.

Go ahead and come up with unique names for all of the animals on earth, not using what Adam used. Heck, just come up with 100 good animal names that fit 100 animals well.

>>1880087
>Why didn't he create him with perfect faith and obedience?

>Why didn't God make robots?

If you had a sex robot that told you it loved you, would you feel loved?

>>1880087
>But instead he gave the option for disobedience we he knew people would fail the test.

And he also knew some wouldn't pass up the opportunity to be redeemed, justified, sanctified and eventually glorified. And for that, he went forward.

>>1880008
Muslim God and Jesus's God are the same.

Allah is the best of deceivers because God is the best of deceivers. Think about it, if God wanted to deceive someone, it is because that person allowed it to happen. If you say "no God can't deceive" then you are denying that God has the ability to do so if He pleased

>>1880015
There is only one God; Allah is not Hu'bal, because they also said that Allah was associated with a different deity instead.

Allah is the same God. That would be like someone saying that Jesus is actually Satan. What proof do you have? Oh this picture I found online.

>>1880045
>>1880045
They don't have to. Just because you are Christian doesn't mean the whole world has to be. Also, the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit is mentioned in Biblical Hebrew, and many Jews today still respect Jesus but don't understand modern Christianity, which is absolutely logical and reasonable, and probably revealed to them.

>>1880074
meme

>>1880104
>Muslim God and Jesus's God are the same.

Muslim God has no children.

YHWH has one begotten Son.

YHWH is Love, and performed the greatest act of love in the universe, dying on our behalf while we were yet sinners.

Is allah love? What has allah done to demonstrate that he is love?

No, by this one verse are the lies of Mohammad displayed:

Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

A different gospel.
About a different Jesus, who was not crucified, did not die, and did not rise from the dead.
Told to him by an angel.

Satan is an angel.

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>>1880087

>>1880104
>Allah is not Hu'bal, because they also said that Allah was associated with a different deity instead.

That satan has many names is known. One of those names is Ba'al. One is allah. One is Chemosh. They are all the devil.

>>1880092
The Jews use a Hebrew Calendar for the Daniel prophecy, and it does not line up with the Christian's calculations. They are still real Jews, ad God is still merciful not to deny every single Jew, that is ridiculous. God isn't like "oh where are all the Presbytyrians it turns out you guys were the true Christians come on upstairs, no one else can come into heaven"

No, God and all of his people are one. Buddhist, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, any true devotion is accepted by God, any false devotion is often rebuked, yet there is still room to repent

>>1880098

Um. I'm pretty sure Adam didn't speak English.

>>1880115
The three differences in the religions are minor; yet some are radically different, what is important is that in a room, with a Jew and Christians and a Muslim, they learn that they all believe in One God and they usually get alone. That is true application of religion.

>Galatians 1:8
You guys need to stop meme-ing this verse. Any time someone has a different opinion boom, Galatians 1:8. Christians today preach a very different Gospel than Jesus and the Apostles; you don't have to agree with it at all.

>>1880117
Satan is also Jesus. That is what you are saying.

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>>1880137

>>1880126
I didn't ask anyone to come up with the names in Adam's language. Your own language is fine.

List 100 awesome unique animal names.

>>1880140
Calling someone else's God Satan is pretty much calling your own God Satan. Even Christians in Muslim countries call God, Allah.

>>1880121
The Jews in the 3rd century AD compressed the time of the Babylonian empire by 152 years, and the time of the Persian empire by 91 years, thus compressing their calendar by 243 years.

Don't tell me about Jews. Their God was standing within arm's reach and instead of worshiping Him, they murdered him.

And last time I checked, 174,000 days in any calendar was 174,000 days.

And since the kickoff point was in the time of Artaxerxes, when the proclamation to rebuild the temple was made in March of 445 BC, if Jesus is not the messiah, there is no messiah.

>>1880137
The difference between worshiping God, not worshiping anyone, and worshiping the devil are profound.

>>1880140
In one instance, Jesus was a satan to Balaam, if that's what you're getting at. I doubt it, but if that's where you're going, then that's correct. The Angel of The Lord standing before Balaam and his ass was none other than Christ Jesus preincarnate.

Satan only means adversary.

In that instance, Jesus was the adversary to a false prophet setting out to curse the Hebrews.

>>1880197
The Jews don't calculate Daniel the same way Christians do.

I might as well be dyslexic, also Jesus says "no one knows when besides the Father"

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>>1880182

Before we go there, can you list the names that adam came up with exactly? I'm curious what his pheonomology was.

But if I was going to name something it be like this...

Cow = meatslab
Pig = baconmaker
Chicken = breastmeat
dog = chinesemeat
cat = mouseeater
duck = goodchinesefoodanimal
bee = honeymaker
wasp = painmaker
snake = deathmaker

See... If I was going to create a language I could list a hundred but its not that fucking hard to do.

Speaking of which. What language did speak? Did God give it to him or did he come up with himself?

Language of God sounds sort of mythical John Dee would come up with.

Where in the Bible did it say Adam spoke a very intelligent and complex language. He could have been speaking to God in grunts and clicks if the Bible didn't specifically say what language he spoke in. If he was so smart why not write a book about his experiences on cow hide?

>>1880212
I know.

Because it's irrefutable proof that Jesus is the Messiah.

>>1880212
You're conflating when the messiah would be cut off (69 weeks) with the Rapture and the Second Coming. They're 2000 years apart, and then another 7 years apart.

>>1880213

Those are terrible names.

It's not an easy task. Adam did it trivially. He was created far superior to us, his many generational broken down descendants.

>>1880200
You are entitled to your own religious opinion, just like I'm entitled to disagree with you.

>>1880203
What I'm getting at, is that calling someone else's God "Satan" makes your God "Satan"

A Muslim spending his day praying 5 times to God because his soul is attracted to God because all of us are, inclined to God, prays to the One God. To hear "your god is Satan cause this youtube video and news article and image on google", they see that Satan is testing them through a Christian who clearly never touched a Quran.

a Christian, likewise, hearing "your religion is stupid Im an atheist debate me" they see Satan testing their faith.

To be a Jew and hear "your going to hell because you never accepted Jesus", did that person personally crucify Jesus? Are they not the religion they were raised to be because that is how God intended it?

Christians make themselves look like Satan's minions because they do not even understand what Christ teaches

>>1880219
Not according to the Jews

>>1880223
According to some Christians, that is what they believe.

>>1880230
Yes, you may believe whatever you choose.

You may not choose the consequences that naturally flow from those choices.

Neither can I, of course, but I have chosen the narrow path that leads to life, i.e. Christ Jesus. I am looking forward to the consequences of that choice, tremendously. Bigly.

>>1880230
>A Muslim spending his day praying 5 times to God

He's not praying to God.

When are you going to understand this simple point?

>>1880230
>To be a Jew and hear "your going to hell because you never accepted Jesus", did that person personally crucify Jesus?

Yes.

We all did, because He would have died for any one of us.

And we would have hammered him onto that cross, any one of us.

>>1880235
They changed it.....because it was irrefutable proof that Jesus is the Messiah. They reclassified Daniel as "not a prophet" the same way, for the same reason.

So that they could remain Jews.

Why do you think I would care about Jewish opinions about Jesus?

>>1880237
Cool, I'll see you on this narrow Path. Two people following the same person end up at the same place

>>1880239
Of course he does.

When are you going to understand this simple point?

>>1880239

>I'm the only right one and everyone else is wrong

Said every religious demagogue, ever

You christcucks are getting more desperate by the day, you've already stopped with the silly Scholastic nonsense and the intelligent design bullshit, is plugging your ears and going LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU the last thing you sad sacks have to offer?

>>1880230

Let me tell you something.

The day I realized that I would have nailed Jesus to a cross was not a good day for me. I had to admit that I was just as evil, just as spiteful, just as vengeful as anyone else on planet earth.

If I knew that I had to nail an innocent man to a cross, and stab him in the heart to make sure he was dead, in order to live, I would have done it.

And so would you.

So imagine my wonder and shock when that man told me that he understood; that he came to die for me; that he came to take my place on that cross, knowing that I would have nailed him there myself.

Imagine the joy I felt when I finally realized that this was what he wanted. This, a broken and contrite heart, begging him for mercy and grace, and rejoicing when it was received.

I will live forever, eternally, praising this man, this brother, this teacher, this sacrifice, this father, this creator, this God. Without limit, without excuse, and without end.

>>1880241
Sure we would have, but in real life, let's be real, did that Jew personally crucify Jesus Christ on the cross 2000 years ago?

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>>1880225

Dog, cat, mouse are all English so I'm pretty sure that is what you are thinking.

In order to prove me right or wrong, you need to know exactly what words Adam used and the goddamn etymology.

I mean, we don't know if Adam in his language used "mouseeater" for cat.

Why are you even arguing this with me? There is no way we can give Adam an IQ test other than to say he didn't create anything worth of note except children.

>>1880245
They didn't change it, Jews are very technical when it comes to the Bible and that is why they read it in the original languages, though I heard somewhere Daniel is also in Aramaic.

They didn't change Daniel, they have a different called than Christians do, and when they calculate Daniel, it is a different date than the Christians. That's all, there are two different calculations for Daniel, that is all that is being said.

>>1880250
No.

You won't. Not until you leave the broad road that leads to destruction, the emergent church, the all roads lead to God heresy, the all religions have some truth to them fallacy. Until you leave that road, you will never see the narrow path.

>>1880252

Praying to the devil is not praying to God.

It's praying to the devil.

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>>1880257

Yeah. All the Jews got together and elected a president specifically to crucify Jesus.

The same way modern German people are responsible for electing Hitler before they were born.

>>1880254
Jesus is right, and everyone else is wrong.

Says all wise people of all time and for all time.

>>1880257

Yes.

>>1880259
Just look at 100 animals, and give them unique names.

It's not a complicated assignment.

>>1880256
But you didn't actually nail Him to the cross, no way am I trying to discredit your revelation or your faith. I am just saying that God is One, and His nature to the true hearts is to forgive.

He blesses us with what is His, what we often know we don't deserve, but as we have faith in God, He has faith in us.

>>1880264
They absolutely changed it by declassifying Daniel as a prophet.

They are blinded. By God.

2 Corinthians 3
But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

>>1880280

Yes.

I did.

>>1880273
>Muhammed is right, and everyone else is wrong.

See? I can have the same autistic fit as you're having right now. You're not presenting any argument why what you propose is supposed to be correct, you're merely stating that it's correct. I guess christcucks really have run out of ideas other than mindlessly repeating the same stuff over and over again

>>1880290
Mohammad never claimed to be God, died, and stayed dead.

According to the bible, which the quran says is the Word of God, he is accursed.

>>1880267
You don't have to agree with everyone. Two people who put "Jesus" on their GPS, will both end up at the same destination, maybe at different times, but the destination is the same.

>>1880269
You don't pray to the devil. Their is plenty in the Quran showing God and Satan as different, a Muslim would be that stupid if the Quran said "worship the devil"; everyone is attracted to God, it is naturally because we are all a soul that comes from God. Islam is an approach to god, as is Christianity. Have some tolerance and understanding, you don't know what you are saying

>>1880274
No, that Jew did not exist 2000 years ago.

>>1880283
That is your opinion, you can use Paul to "justify" your opinion, but we need to stay away from the Christians that use the Bible to reinforce their bias

>>1880294
>Jesus never claimed to be God, died, and stayed dead.

Again, I can do the same shit you're doing, and again, you're presenting zero arguments why we should believe you, other than 'my book says so'. Just like I said, you've completely run out of ideas, and all you resort to now is just mindless repetition of why your book says. It's quite sad, really

>>1880294
According to your personal interpretation of the bible

>>1880278

Um. I showed you I can come up with technically useful names to me.

I could come up with non-meaningful names like.

Zattra, Mohemian, Bastalice, Hermophrog and so on, but that would be an homework assignment.

So to be really fair, before I do that, your assignment is to tell me the exact names Adam used in his language.

Pro:Tip it isn't Hebrew.

>>1880311

Ælian, is that you? Is your Æutism working up again?

>>1880322
No.

>>1880300
Everyone who knows the truth agrees with each other, as the definition of objective truth would lead you to understand.

If you do not come to Jesus the way Jesus says to come to him, you will never reach him.

I don't pray to the devil, no, because I do not pray to allah.

>>1880305
You are trapped in linear time, and your thinking is trapped in linear time.

Jesus is not. He reached forward in time and took YOUR sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for all of them. So YOUR sins are forgiven, because Jesus was crucified for YOU.

Stop thinking like an animal, and start developing a hunger for the truth.

>>1880305
>stay away from the Christians that use the Bible

That might be the worst advice ever given mankind.

>>1880307
You can't, actually, as I tell the truth and you lie.

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

>>1868075
God has an extra chromosome despite being omniscient and omnipotent.

>>1880309
The bible speaks for itself. Read it. Ask the Holy Spirit to enter into you and explain it to you.

>>1880311
Yeah, I agree with Anon. What was a simple throw away thought experiment has turned you into an autistic mess.

>>1880482

Sure you're not, that's why you instantly recognized the name, you autistic faggot.

Why are you even here, Ælian? Is christposting all you do, all day every day?

>>1880519
I already did.

I also used to use Bible quote to justify my own bias all the time, and then I realize how vain my arguments were

>>1880531
how exactly was he christposting? that wasn't even Ælian's style. ælian would have been posting increasingly zoomed in images of Jesus with bible verses

>>1880519

Why do you need the Bible to commune with God?

Abraham and Mosses didn't have a Bible.

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Bumping with some /his/ redpill

to check these dubs

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Last one

>>1880632
Check these

>>1880116
There's no free will in Heaven. It's an unnecessary thing once you lack flesh