Feminism as historically American

>>1860211
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Sure, why not friend.

Just like abolishing slavery was an American phenomenon that made the world better or a two-party system.

You probably couldn't even name 10 feminists other than Anita Sarkeesian without doing a Google search. Even if you could, your knowledge of them would be limited to paraphrased quotes and I doubt you've read any feminist literature whatsoever. Feminism was a logical consequence of the European enlightenment and the general sentiment was around in the 1700s despite not getting traction until the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Get off the internet and read a book you dumb faggot. The current backlash against feminism is basically a meme replacement for all the kids that grew up online as angry atheists from 2005-2009.

>>1861737
First off, who shit in your cornflakes you snobbish grandstander? And second, I hope you don't legitimately believe that last line and think there's absolutely nothing wrong with the current strand of mainstream feminism. I SERIOUSLY hope you don't actually think that.

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>>1861746
>I hope you don't legitimately believe that last line and think there's absolutely nothing wrong with the current strand of mainstream feminism.
They provide live entertainment while slowly destroying all the progress done by actual women's right fighter before them for centuries of oppression they had to suffer to get us here.

I find nothing wrong with them, friend.

>>1861746
>wow I can't seriously believe you made that argument

Social reactionaries in the first and second waves said the same shit about feminism going too far. Sorry if I think some random internet leftist engaging in media criticism about videogames is somehow not a radical jewish-reptilian-marxist fifth column aiming to bring down the west.

>>1861821
>Social reactionaries in the first and second waves said the same shit about feminism going too far
And? Does that mean that reactionaries are never right? Does that mean the first and second waves didn't go too far as well? What kind of retarded argument is that? Also
>Hurr, it's just Anita
Anita is a retard and makes shitty arguments, but I don't even consider her a feminist. Just a scammer.

>>1861831
So you think the first wave went too far? Okay bro. That's a prescriptive notion and I can't objectively discredit it, but it hurts your credibility in the eyes the wider society when you whine that feminists fail to advocate true equality and then say women voting is a bad idea.
It wasn't much of an argument, you're right, I don't feel the textual equivalent of saying SERIOUSLY BRO? really warrants one.

>hurr it's just Anita

It's not, but that's pretty much 99% of who I hear you antifeminists whining about. Like I said, read a book nigger. The third wave is incredibly mild compared to the second, as even a cursory reading of Intercourse or The Female Eunuch would reveal.

>>1861883
I'm not saying that getting the right to vote is going too far. I'm saying that movements always have their spots and always go too far to achieve their goals, no matter how noble their goals, including first wavers.
>but that's pretty much 99% of who I hear you antifeminists whining about.
So you just have your head in the sand then? Nobody's fault but your own.
>The third wave is incredibly mild compared to the second,
Mild in terms of stupidity and lies, or violence and vigilantism? If the latter, then I agree.

>>1861907
>movements always go too far to achieve their goals

Then why not ditch politics entirely?

>you just have your head in the sand

So basically "u are le wrong xd"?
People have made entire careers out of trashing Anita. Thunderf00t is practically obsessed with it. I've never heard him talk about Wendy McElroy's defense of pornography.

>mild in terms of stupidity and lies

Literally anybody says this about movements they disagree with. I think third wave concepts like intersectionalism and "patriarchy hurts men too" are much less stupid than Dworkin advocating for a women's israel, yes.

>violence and vigilantism

What, so all those first wave suffragates should have just stood back and let the police beat them to a pulp when they broke up protests? Marital rape in the US only became federally illegal in 1993. Of course women were pissed off but on the whole patroarchy itself caused thousands of times the abuse. Isolated examples like Valerie Solanas ignore the fact that she was schizophrenic and formerly homeless. The second wave as a whole was not a violent movement, very few movements in the west post-1950s are violent, whether they're left wing or right wing.

I answered your question about feminism being uniquely American - which it isn't, and wouldn't discredit the underlying ideas if it was anyway. The US has just been the dominant nation during the 20th century and gotten the most media exposure. Look at Vietnam. No worse than WW2 but far more televised.

>>1861992
>So basically "u are le wrong xd"?
No, you ironic shitposting memer. I'm not saying you're wrong, just ill-informed.
>People have made entire careers out of trashing Anita.
Fucking and?
>Literally anybody says this about movements they disagree with.
Fucking and? Doesn't mean it isn't stupid. And yes, intersectionalism and patriarchy hurting men ARE stupid concepts.
>I answered your question
I'm not the one who asked.

>>1860211
>a lot of the women's movement happened in America
Even in the hole-riddled joke that is american education, they teach you this shit in middle school.

Unfuck yourself OP.

>>1862018
>u are dumb xdddd

Okay bro. Whatever makes you feel less blown the fuck out.

>I'm not OP

Neither am I :^)

>>1862054
>Okay bro. Whatever makes you feel less blown the fuck out.
Again, no, you ironic shitposting fuckwit. I'm calling mainstream/academic feminism largely stupid, not you.

>>1860211
>>1860211
There were a number of feminists in the Soviet Union (at least pre-Stalin), with Alexandra Kollontai being a great example. She and a number of other feminists (both male and female) rejected the thesis that gender issues would wither away of their own accord with the removal of capitalism (as Lenin and others so believed), and set up the Zhenotdel (Women's Ministry of the CPSU) to address issues of abortion, conteaception, marriage/divorce rights etc. Pretty awesome stufd to read about tbf; there's a couple books out there on the topic. The resistance you mentioned was a result of religious leaders becoming central to peasant communities which shook off kulaks during the revolution, and also of peasantry utilising religion as an expressive vehicle for resistance to the Soviet state which they saw as a threat to their new-found freedom from the effective serf status inherent in the old system.

Also, feminism was pretty damn big in France, what with Simone de Beauvoir being a seminal feminist author (even if her phenomenological/existential writing is sadly overlooked).

You mentioned feminists in the UK; there is one named Mary Wallstinecroft who actually took up massive issue with Thomas Paine and wrote a response called 'Vindication for the Rights of Woman', advocating female education to allow women to become contributors to their households.

>>1862072

I'd also make a strong case for Rosa Luxemburg in Germany; she was a seminal writer of polemics and economics (the latter surpassing Marx for many, and influencing Alexis Tsipras, SYRIZA's leader in Greece, especially) who was regarded and treated as an equal to her male Spartacist colleagues. Sadly she was murdered in cold blood by the Friekorps she and the socialists battled.

Furthermore, many women in the heian nobility of Japan were vitally important and holders of great power or writers of great literature (see Tale of Genji)

There's also G.C. Spivak, an India feminist, political theorist and historian who is an amazing (if postmodern) writer responsible for introducing many western scholars to Gramsci's writing.

Tbf I think the reason that you've seen feminism as American is that US schools tend to focus on US contexts in most areas. I'd go with bell hooks somewhat in saying that US feminism is often thought of as /the/ feminism, yet it has often been insensitive to issues of class and race particularly (see Betty Friedan and how white, middle-class and suburban her concerns/focus are).

>>1862062
And you really did a good job of it :^)
Give yourself a pat on the back, Mister Mad-As-Fuck

>>1862076
>u mad xD
See? I can do it too.

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>>1860211
Germaine Greer was an Aussie. Yanks were late to the game with Women's suffrage.

Feminism probably seems American to you since American Feminists are more famous to English speakers simply because they are American and Americans like to pretend everyone else in the world cares about their shit.

>>1862080
You sure can, bro. You sure can.

>>1862085
>pretend everyone else in the world cares about their shit.
>implying they don't

>>1862093
We do, just not to the extent you think we do.

>America is full of Jews
>Jews promote feminism
>Jews control mass media and use it to export feminism and other "American" trends to Europe

not that difficult to understand

>>1862119
The world is very easy to understand once you've been redpilled, isn't it Cletus? Lucky you were born into the superior race and enlightened enough to accept these harsh truths.

>>1862018
Dude, just accept that you got rekt.
Not that anon, but its pretty clear he has a lot more knowledge on the subject.

>>1862153
More knowledge on the subject, when he says that 99% of what he sees "antifeminists" talk about is Anita? Nah. Provide substantiation, or you'll be labeled samefag.

>>1862158
The fact that you singled out those lines out of his cock slap of knowledge means you need to give up champ.

>>1861821
Feminism is like any liberation movement. It punishes the low-agency and therefore the low agency demand state intervention. This ends up benefiting a few high achievers in the group, being about the same for most people, hammering those who fail, and making the group as a whole more beholden to the state.
You can see it with women and blacks demanding the state be skewed to benefit them without their lives improving in any clear way. For anyone who lacks agency, liberation is useless. It replaces one master with the state. The state is the only winner, but even then temporarily. It becomes weak and deluded and a more functional system attacks from outside.
I look forward to the intermediary imperium though (assuming its peak is in the future).

>>1862138
Not an argument.

>>1862167
So what? He's still wrong on what I think is important.

>>1862172
I wasn't refuting you, I was mocking your worldview. "Jews did it" is not substantial enough to be worth refuting.

>>1862138
You fell for it and are retarded. Please post better in the future, thank you.

>>1862171
>agency

I reject your axiom and substitute my own.
Seriously though, that's a load of completely unfounded pseudo-Nietzschean verbiage. You align feminism woth you boogeyman of "the state", despite the fact that authoritarianism and patriarchy have been historically conjoined twins. Monarchism, fascism, stalinism etc. were all super-paternalistic. Countries that remain authoritarian today, like Saudi Arabia and Russia, are staunchly antifeminist, and also sadly poor and uneducated. I won't say that's the cause, but it's a noteworthy correlation that the more feminist countries are almost universally first world with higher transparency ratings.

>>1862245
>I was only pretending to be retarded
>you should know better than to seriously think someone on 4chan thinks the jews caused feminism

>>1862112
yeah right.

>>1862507
Okay?

>>1861361
>Efendi Murad I bin Blaberidae

Opinion discarded. How much of do your day do you spend on this fucking board where you end up having the first post in most threads?

>>1860211

I don't know. It took till 2016 before we even had a woman nominated for the leadership of the country.

Many countries in Europe, Africa, and India had women leaders long before us.

>>1862523
>one woman nominated for leadership after 44 male presidencies

What more evidence of the evil feminist matriarchy do you need?

>>1862523
>>I don't know. It took till 2016 before we even had a woman nominated for the leadership of the country.
women do not want to be in power, beyond their will to kill boredom.
Women want to be in power to reject men they do not value

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>>1862547

Like Thatcher?

>>1862547
>women don't want to be in power
>what is feminism

Russian women were already empowered

Women played a great part in the revolution, read up on it

OP here. Wow,I come back from work to see that this thread has grown into a bigass thorny rosebush.

That said, I had no idea that aussies (and from that map, apparently canucks) had the female vote before us.The arguements about why soviet women resisted make a lot of sense too, and you guys have given me a lot of interesting threads to pull. I have to sleep soon, but do any of you have suggestions for what to read in order to unfuck my America-Centric view of women's issues?

Because I seriously though American Feminism was basically it. If you're being honest about international feminisms being less 'white, protestant and middle class' then I'd like to look into them.

>>1862653
>I have literally no balls and can be swayed by chan posts

>>1862682
>OP gets corrected with facts given by clearly knowledgeable people on the topic
>rightfully changes opinion
>Antifem gets butthurt, calls him a pussy, and attacks the medium of communication rather than the content of what was said

>>1862523
And even then she had to cheat her way into it.

>>1862523
but is that even a relevant indicator? Becoming a leader of a country =/= the direct democratic will of a country

>>1860211
>dude lets give people who have no stake or haven't served for this country voting rights and shit

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>>1860211
>>1861361
>>1861770
>Just like abolishing slavery was an American phenomenon that made the world better
Abolishing slavery was perfectly justified and reasonable and made America at least a much more better place.
>>1861737
>The current backlash against feminism is basically a meme replacement for all the kids that grew up online as angry atheists from 2005-2009.
Except it isn't and feminism deserves all the backlash it's getting.
>>1861883
>but it hurts your credibility in the eyes the wider society
You mean it hurts the feelings of people who can't think
>feminists fail to advocate true equality
They don't and they've repeatedly failed at it for quite a while now.
>and then say women voting is a bad idea.
He didn't say that...
>>1861992
>What, so all those first wave suffragates should have just stood back and let the police beat them to a pulp when they broke up protests?
And if you're going to bitch about the vote (potentially again)
>http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-lies-feminism/women-were-not-oppressed-by-not-having-the-vote/

>Like I said, read a book nigger
You do some some reading and quit bitching about victim Olympics. I swear you're the same feminist posting in these threads:
>http://desuarchive.org/his/thread/1837454/
>http://desuarchive.org/his/thread/1858837/
>>1861992
>patroarchy itself caused thousands of times the abuse.
If you believe in patriarchy as feminism defines it you're retarded
>>1862153
>>1862176
>https://radishmag.wordpress.com/2014/02/14/pump-and-dump/
>https://radishmag.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/fair-sex/
>http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/12/04/the-sexodus-part-1-the-men-giving-up-on-women-and-checking-out-of-society/
>http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/12/09/the-sexodus-part-2-dishonest-feminist-panics-leave-male-sexuality-in-crisis/