I would like to learn about Anglo-Saxon kingdoms.

What about them?

Northumbrian master race here. Mercian shitlords need to hang.

>>1852705
I know nothing about them. My understanding of England starts at 1066.

Where should I start?

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Tom Holland has recently released a book about the rise of Wessex and the unification of England, beginning with Alfred, passing through Edward the Elder and Athelfled and culminating in Athelstan, the most sadly forgotten and underrated English monarch.

>>1852731
Are you constraining yourself only to the Anglo-Saxon period?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zqrc9j6

>>1852741
Maybe not. I know about the Druids and the Romans, so maybe I should bridge the gap between the fall of the Roman Empire and the Norman Conquest.

Thanks for the link.

>>1852738
That looks rad. Is it a good read?

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Dickwads who took rightful celtic clay. GIVE CLAY BACK

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>>1852693
They had decent medicine and herbal knowledge - like any kingdom around the world. I have the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle on e-text here: https://ia902305.us.archive.org/30/items/theanglosaxonchr00657gut/angsx10.txt

There are some issues with the source, but it has great value none the less. Some of the names it has are awesome.

It's weird how England is still somewhat divided according to those boundaries.

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>>1852935
I'm sure you know of the heptarchy. If not, then I would look into that term and what it means for the many Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of Britain. The various kingdoms had important and unique histories that each deserve looking into. Even the small Kent has some interesting events and people.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/archaeology/research/projects/burghalhidage/hidage

http://archeurope.info/@texts/burghal_hidage.pdf

http://www.ogdoad.force9.co.uk/alfred/alfhidage.htm

Some of the above links discuss an interesting document called the "Burghal Hidage". Alfred the Great and his son Edward, both kings of Wessex, had an account taken over their kingdom's fortified towns. It's a neat system that sometimes recycled old Roman walls and forts. The viking raiders had a hell of time nabbing a lot of loot and people after that because anyone under threat could retreat within. The image I found over at /a/... not a bad representation

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>>1853045
Despite the Anglo-Saxons covering huge swaths of Britain, many native Britons and Celts still remained. This map is not 100% accurate, but it does a hell of a job showing the diversity of the time. They rarely, if at ALL, referred to themselves as Anglo-Saxon. Aengli, Seaxe, or whatever kingdom they hailed from later on were the identifications they used. Professor Steven Ellis does extensive work on the Irish language, and found that the word Irish use for English people "Sasanach" is a very old word. It may go back to them trying to pronounce "Saxones". Britons and other Celts used the word itself if they could or a softened version: "Saeson".

>>1853045
These all look like the same fucking guy.

>>1852908
The Britons looked nothing like that by Anglo-Saxon times

>>1852738
>Tom Holland

Oh God. He's the Tom Brown of History

>>1853511
Dan brown

>>1853511
How so?

>>1853087

I always think it bizarre to think that the village of Sherburn-in-Elmet in North Yorkshire was once a mighty kingdom!

>>1852738
Would recommend Susan Foot's biography of Athelstan once you're to grips with the basics of the Anglo-Saxon period

>>1853087
We'll kill Britons, we'll have fun
We'll be Saesons in the sun

>>1853409
I know but posting pictures of weak, effiminate Romano-British losing their lands to saxons wouldn't be as cool.

>>1853087
>Professor Steven Ellis does extensive work on the Irish language, and found that the word Irish use for English people "Sasanach" is a very old word. It may go back to them trying to pronounce "Saxones".
You're making it out like this is some big discovery. We call the English Saxons even today in English. Not like an everyday term but it's common. Sasanach definitely comes from Saxon

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>Saxons are sleeping, post Welsh memes
Owain Glyn Dŵr, was a Welsh ruler and the last native Welshman to hold the title Prince of Wales (Tywysog Cymru). He instigated a fierce and long-running but ultimately unsuccessful revolt against the English rule of Wales.

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Cadwallon ap Cadfan (died 634[1]) was the King of Gwynedd from around 625 until his death in battle. The son and successor of Cadfan ap Iago, he is best remembered as the King of the Britons who invaded and conquered Northumbria, defeating and killing its king, Edwin, prior to his own death in battle against Oswald of Bernicia. His conquest of Northumbria, which he held for a year or two after Edwin died, made him the last Briton to hold substantial territory in eastern Britain until the rise of the Tudor dynasty.[2] He was thereafter remembered as a national hero by the Britons and as a tyrant by the Anglo-Saxons of Northumbria.

Higham and Ryan's Anglo Saxon World is the best recent work, and Dawn Hadley has written a lot on the Danelaw. Stenton is a bit outdated now (especially in terms of archaeology) but as a complete work it's still brilliant.

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>>1854659
I guess I am trying to say that my claims aren't the usual 4chan bullshit. I got sources is all.

>>1854674
>Shhh, byddwch yn deffro y Sacsoniaid!

>>1854598
Top notch, I like it

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>>1854674

>>1854674
>English rule of Wales
You mean the French dynasty ruling England. No native Anglo-Saxon was king since 1066.

Now if you wanted to argue about the Anglo-Saxon conquest of the Romano-Britons like pushing into Cornwall, Devon, etc., then you have an argument about English aggression but don't bring in Normans, Plantagenets, Lancastrians, and Yorkists.

>>1854694
This

I also recommend Justin Pollalrd's Alfred the Great: The Man Who Made England, Sarah Foot's Aethelstan: The First King of England, and James Campbell's The Anglo-Saxons.

>>1852738
I find it incredibly shameful that modern English people have little to no idea of the Anglo-Saxon period. Very few English even use Anglo-Saxon names today in favor of Norman and French ones like William or Robert.

>>1853087
The Welsh word for 'English' is Saesneg, which I suppose comes from Saxon.

>>1856047
To be fair, most Anglo-Saxon names don't mesh well in contemporary society like Wulfstan, Ordgar, Leofric, Toki, or Copsig. And the Anglo-Saxons didn't utilize surnames like we do today.

>>1854694
Don't forget Barbara Yorke's book on Wessex.

>>1856508
> And the Anglo-Saxons didn't utilize surnames like we do today.
I'm sure they used patronymics like most Germanic tribes.

I have an Anglo-Saxon patronym for a surname.

>>1856147

That's the welsh for English the language, Saes is the usual word for "English person".

>>1856564
It's insulting that the word "Welsh" means foreigner in Old English. You lose the best lands to these Germanic pagans and then they refer to your people as foreigners.

>>1856668
That's the price of being blown the fuck out. The Welsh should have been tougher and won.

>>1856668
Chat shit

Get banged

>>1856726
I know, but it's kinda depressing that the Brythonic-speaking peoples got their asses raped by the Romans and after the departure of the Roman army, they couldn't get their shit together. It was a BIG mistake to hire the Jutes and other pagan Germanics as mercenaries as well as squabble amongst themselves.

Though as a consequence of the Germanic invasions, the Bretons emerged in Armorica and became a powerful successor to the Brythonic identity. Besides Brittany, only Scotland could boast to be a unified Celtic kingdom throughout the Middle Ages. Ireland and Wales squabbled too much with internal dissent and never modernized to the extent that Brittany and Scotland did.

>>1856047
Critical theorists talk about "colonial mentality" regarding the Third World, but nowhere it is more prevalent than in England regarding the Normans.

>>1856909
Yeah, it's pretty evident that the Normans grinded the English of their heritage. To be Anglo-Saxon was a mark of shame in post-1066. There's a famous anecdote of a boy named Tostig who was ridiculed by his Norman classmates for his name in the early 12th century. Certain Englishmen "converted" to Normanism by cutting their hair short and adopting their mannerisms.

When you look at English history from 1066 to the the War of the Rosees, you realize that its monarchs, nobles, knights, and senior clergymen were largely non-English. There were no actual Anglo-Saxons as knights in the High Middle Ages. Which is why any book, TV series, or movie that features an "English" knight or lord is actually a descendant of a Norman or a Breton or some other person from France or the Low Countries.

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>>1852693
Look into the "Fyrd" - roughly means army - system that the Anglo-Saxons had. It heralded back from their migration times and stuck around well into Norman conquest times.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fyrdman

https://regia.org/research/warfare/fyrd1.htm
and
https://regia.org/research/warfare/fyrd2.htm

Are just some of the links I have off-hand. Look into the book: "Alfred's Wars Sources and Interpretations of Anglo-Saxon Warfare in the Viking Age." by Ryan Lavelle

Hwicce is not yet lost

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>>1856752
Oi!

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How come the only great english monarchs were elves and danes?
What happened to elves anyway?

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>>1858047
Think blood.

>>1852730
dumn northerners, it's the Mercian Supremacy for a reason

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>>1853374
What if I told you... they were all girls

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>>1852693
So... which faction? I am leaning towards the Mercians but the Picts seem like such a unique option

>>1856047

>Tfw can't name rename myself awesome names like Beowulf, Wulfstan or Waelfwulf without coming off as a shitty hipster

Btw what was the Anglo-Saxon obsession with Wolfs?

Godric is an amazing name you could still feasibly use though

>>1859453

What game is this?

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>>1859453
>>1859501
Fuck yeah Medieval Total war

I think Mercians have just about the easiest campaign (Vikings Aside)

Do you know the BKB Supermod for MTW? Really tickles my autism.

>>1859501
It is what >>1859551 says

>>1859551
And I have not heard of that mod. I found one called Medieval Total War XL that adds a bunch of new factions, allows Pagans to build religious structures, and adds over a hundred units to the game. I played as the scots and found Burgundians from Spain to as far as Croatia. A super empire

>>1852998
Its not, most oldworldcountries subdivided into groups that are like this due to something that isolated them a thousand years or longer before.

>>1859551
>>1859576

Thanks buds. I've only played the second one.

Which Anglo-Saxon kingdom should I play in CK2? Should I do Charlemagne or Old Gods?

>>1859496
I'm willing to bet that with more Anglo-Saxon film and TV gaining a following, they'll be fans that will name their kids with Old English names. I agree that Godric is a great name as is Edmund or Sigeberht.

>>1859453
Wait, there's 2 Anglo-Saxon kingdoms but no mention of Wessex? What do the Saxons represent then? Continental Saxons?

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Disgusting invaders

>>1856047
but there are plenty of names that we have now that came from Anglo-saxon ones.

literally Chad is one of them.

http://www.behindthename.com/names/usage/anglo-saxon

>>1859631
Old Gods, and play Northumbria. They can hold but they need a human player to do it

>>1859983
They just made Wessex "the Saxons". Mercia and Northumbria are considered more Angles than Saxons in the game. Although Mercia pulls heavily from the Saxons as well. It's an odd dynamic

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>>1852693
And remember that cavalry was not a major factor in Britain. The Norman invaders learned from the Franks, who learned from the Saracens, and brought that ideal to the Isles. Anglo-Saxons fielded infantry armies with archers for support. They had cavalry but they were limited to scouting, small flanks, and delivering messages. This varied over time though, as some Saxon armies actually fielded a decent number of cavalry for some time... they just didn't write down what they used them for.

>>1860017
>They just made Wessex "the Saxons". Mercia and Northumbria are considered more Angles than Saxons in the game. Although Mercia pulls heavily from the Saxons as well. It's an odd dynamic
that's actually pretty historically sound
does Northumbria have Brythonnic influence?

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>>1860028
They do not in the game, but did in real life. Northumbria recruits really strong "Woodsmen" but they are just a plain unit. They do not look unique or have unique descriptions.

>>1860025
The main problem was that England did not have proper cavalry mounts. The native ponies were good for mounted infantry, but they didn't breed destriers for armored cavalry.

It's why Tolkien created the Rohirrim as a fantasy version of Anglo-Saxon cavalry. Had the English fielded some armored horsemen at Hastings, they could've won.

>>1860028
Northumbria has a heavy Irish influence. Irish monks were the ones that converted the Angles to the Celtic Church and taught them the art of illuminated manuscripts and jewel-encrusted books.

Northumbria's name reflects its southern boundary in the Humber. Its Britonic neighbor Strathclyde refers to the river Clyde. Those 2 kingdoms had the best names out of all the entities in Britain.

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Tell me about the Kingdom of the Isles

>>1860181
Norse kingdom for centuries until based Alexander III tricked the Norwegians into the Battle of Largs and acquired them into Scotland. Unfortunately for many generations, the Gael/Norwegian lords didn't quite see eye to eye with their Scottish overlords because of the fact they were their own polity for centuries. And they were far more powerful than the western and northern regions of Scotland. Only the Lowlands and Scottish nobles of Norman ancestry could rival them.

>>1860077

had the english not marched a week prior to stamford bridge to defeat Harald they might have faired better too

>>1860181
Countries made up of small islands are my historical fetish desu.

>>1860259
It's a real tragedy that England had to fight 3 major battles within a few weeks of each other. They lost invaluable amounts of men at Fulford Gate and Stamford Bridge. Hastings would've turned out MUCH differently if Harold had those men in reserve.

>>1860383

Much agreed