What does /his/ think of David Irving?

>>1826543

He brings to mind the phrase "A stopped clock is right twice a day".

He's a decent archivist, but he's not really a historian, as from the first, his works have been wrought with bias and revisionism in the most pejorative sense of the word. He cannot resist his urge to make Hitler the good guy, and will twist facts when necessary to make Hitler seem cleaner or make contemporaries seem dirtier. He will outright lie about his sources, or make up facts to get there.

However, he was right about a couple of things, almost incidentally. He worked out that the Allies cracked the Enigma code well before it was officially disclosed, but at least to me, that doesn't make up the balance for his other patent nonsense, like how Dresden had 10,000,000,000 people killed, or how the Holocaust happened, but Hitler didn't know anything at all about it.

>>1826636
show me one document that proves Hitler knew about it

>>1826649

I'll do that as soon as you bring up a document proving that Churchill arranged for the death of Władysław Sikorski.

>>1826649
Quotes from Goebbels' diary:
>August 19, 1941, after a visit to Hitler's headquarters:
>The Fuehrer is convinced his prophecy in the Reichstag is becoming a fact: that should Jewry succeed in again provoking a new war, this would end with their annihilation. It is coming true in these weeks and months with a certainty that appears almost sinister. In the East the Jews are paying the price, in Germany they have already paid in part and they will have to pay more in the future.

>February 24, 1942, after a visit with Hitler in Berlin:
>The Fuehrer again voices his determination to remorselessly cleanse Europe of its Jews. There can be no sentimental feelings here. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that they are now experiencing. They shall experience their own annihilation together with the destruction of our enemies. We must accelerate this process with cold brutality; by doing so we are doing an inestimable service to humanity . . . .

>>1826636
>how Dresden had 10,000,000,000 people killed
Does he really believe that?

>>1826649
There isn't a single document regarding the alleged execution of Jews that has Hitler's signature on it, and there is not a single quote from Hitler concerning authorization for killing Jews and other "subhumans", nor is there a single piece of evidence that would suggest he knew anything about any alleged extermination programs. He never even went to the camps.

>>1826657
Kek what the fuck is this cucked response?

Burden of proof's on you for this

>>1826661
The Havaara agreement proves the intent was never extermination.

File: Evidence of Holocaust.png (1MB, 1500x2407px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1500x2407px

>>1826649
Here you go buddy, a literal document showing Hitler knew about it and that Irving agreed that he probably saw it.

How sincerely don't know how anyone can defend Germs.

>>1826673
>After the German invasion of Poland in September 1939, the program was ended.

So this agreement (that was scrapped) is proof "the intent was never extermination." So then what the fuck are the death camps proof of?

>>1826663
>Does he really believe that?
It's hyperbole obviously, but in the first edition of The Destruction of Dresden, he said:
>estimated authoritatively to have killed more than 135,000 of the population [of Dresden]
>documentation suggests very strongly that the figure was certainly between a minimum of 100,000 and a maximum of 250,000
In the 1971 edition:
>estimated authoritatively to have killed more than 100,000 of the population
In the 1995 edition:
>cost the lives of between fifty and one hundred thousand inhabitants

The real figure as estimated by municipal officials at the time and confirmed by a 2010 study commissioned by the city council is no more than 25,000. So he clearly exaggerates massively

>>1826680
Don't fucking lump American retards in with the rest of us. Your continent has plenty of retards too

>>1826673
The intent was originally emigration, but then it changed. You realize policy can change right?

absolutely btfo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rBCst4hph0

>>1826701
America is the only country in the industrialized world where belief in evolution and global warming is split 50/50.

Let's not pretend that America doesn't suffer from crippling anti-intellectualism.

>>1826709
dude global warming is real we're about to have an ice age lmao

>>1826705
Policy does change, but intent remains the same barring external forces, and intent is what determines policy. If Hitler was cooperating with the Zionists in sending them to Israel to where 10% of the German Jewish population went, then I don't doubt his aims were never extermination. Had the war ended sooner I believe he would have continued the process.

>>1826736
That makes no sense whatsoever. The intent was to get the Jews out of Europe. When forcing them to emigrate failed, they turned to extermination. Not really that hard to understand.

>>1826736
>barring external forces

That's a pretty big caveat. There were obviously "external forces" at work, like the World War starting.

>>1826720

Way to prove him wrong burgerclap.

>>1826663

>>1826698 beat me to it. To add to what he says, I would point out that Irving pretty consistently claims Dresden had a higher body count than Hamburg in 1943, despite the latter having more bombs dropped over a longer period of time, in drier weather, with a bigger firestorm, over a more densely populated target.

>>1826671

It's the response from someone who has read Irving, and how he blames Churchill for said death because there's no way a head of state couldn't have known about it, but at the same time denies Hitler's knowledge of the Holocaust on what is actually a much bigger operation.

>>1826749
>When forcing them to emigrate failed

Why did it fail?

>>1826880

Not him, but it failed because they started expanding into places where you had over 10 times as many Jews as you had in Germany.

>>1826751
Well the first concentration camp wasn't built until what, 41? 42? Dunkirk happened in 1940, had Hitler instead of allowing the British to escape captured them, he could have used the tens of thousands of POWs as a method for suing for peace. This would have prevented America's entry into the war, which we all know the American people wouldn't have fought for the USSR alone. Its possible public sentiment may have turned to support of Hitler as a vanguard against Communism, and part of the peace process probably would have been the Jewish question- which Zionists would have used to create Israel.

>>1826961

Dachau was established in 1933.

>>1826961
I really don't know what this bizarre counter-factual is supposed to prove...

>>1826961
camps were build around 1933 but mostly for prisoners who were against the regime or dared to criticize it in any way.