Why did he not win? I mean look, he is adorable

>>1825435
World War II really screwed him over. The Japanese annihilated most of his army, including his core forces, with the Nationalists losing 3.2 million dead in the war to the Communists' 580,000. This was made much worse when Japan surrendered, and the Soviets were around to accept their surrender in Manchuria. They subsequently turned over Manchuria, and with it considerable stockpiles of weapons, not to mention tons of industry, to the Communists.

>>1825435
I read somewhere that his mental state started to deteriorate. He became extremely paranoid and all those things that plague late autocrats.

Same thing happened to Mao later, but he wasn't fighting a war by that time.

>>1825448
This. The nationalists were having a hard enough time dealing with and trying to unify Chinese warlords. This wasn't an insurmountable task, it's happened that way for pretty much every Chinese civil war, but for those Chinese civil wars, China war largely isolated from foreign influence. That wasn't the case here.

>>1825435

Because he was never able to really unify China. At best, he could occupy a couple of provinces and extort tribute from the warlords of the others. He left a lot of power vacuums, and something was going to fill them.

>>1825448

Except he was having trouble even before the war with Japan broke out. It took YEARS to drive the Communists out of Jiangxi and Fujian, and he never managed to replace them with his own people, just again new warlords who were intermediaries. The Chi-Coms escaped northwest, and were afterwards able to pull enough support to do crap like the Xi'an incident.


Sure, WW2 was a body blow, but he wasn't doing all that well even before it.

>>1825435

Why didn't the KMT attempt an invasion during the Cultural Revolution, when popular dissent at the Gommies was at an all-time high?

>>1825488

By that point, the KMT was a tiny remnant huddling on Taiwan; and while dissatisfaction with the Commies was high, not too many people really wanted them back either.


Plus, there are all the Cold War shenanigans going on. Even with the Sino-Soviet split, something like this has the opportunity to pull in one or both superpowers, and that means the nukes might fly, which means you have to be very, very careful about anything you did.

was he a good leader? ive heard that he was a poor military leader and that only made his problems worse

is there any good documentaries about ww2 in china?

>>1826300
His strategy for staving off a Chinese defeat was in hindsight the most optimal one. It's just that incompetence and a general lack of unity hampered any effective implementation of his strategy.

He made a bit of a miscalculation in throwing in his best troops into the Shanghai fight, as it didn't provoke a Western military intervention. But it did show the Japanese that a full scale war against China would be far more costly than they had anticipated.

Although to be honest, Chiang's strategy was basically just "trade space for time and hope the Americans come save us." Ironically, this would be very similar to Japan's strategy in a modern war against China. Funny how things change.

>>1825435
Not sponsored by Rothschilds.
Mao was.

File: Chiang_KaiShek_Portrait_Tiananmen_Beijing.jpg (358KB, 820x651px) Image search: [Google]

358KB, 820x651px

>>1825435
The C. Shek's plan.

Forgive looting, pillaging, criminal, warlords and put them in charge of my cities cuz they gangsta.

Tight dime wife sells Hollywood a bill of goods in exchange for all that paper. Cuz imma pimp dat had her fuck the American ambassador four hours straight.

Get top o'tha line U.S. general n' shit to train mah troops plus all dis money.

Send him packing cuz I don't need that drama. Listening to the man ain't street; ya-kno-im-sayin? Shout out to mah Warlord bangers big pimpin' on the people.

S'cool n' all but keep it on tha down-low. Imma denounce ya in public but not really cuz im yah boy.

Mericunt general's replacement's a born fool. Doesn't know the difference between a diplomatic meeting with your sworn enemy and dinner. I call em general, and his head get too big to think. He aint got nothin' on me cuz the Shek is off the Chiang no-wut-im-sayin'?

Let the whites fight the Japanese menace my people loathe while my warlords they also hate wait to take out the commies. My English is getting better too.

Whites win the war without my help.

Yayy! Time to conquer, seize all the cities, where mah warlords at! Whut! Whut!

What do you mean the people hate being raped by mah Warlords? Its just dey pimpin'.

What do you mean the people don't like being robbed blind by mah Warlords? Theys mah best men.

What do you mean mah Warlords are leaving the country with all mah loot?

Oh-hi-Mao-I-see-your-crew-just-expanded-membership-to-over-90million-of-the-people-who-hate-my-ass-and-Imma-let-you-finish--just-k-thanks-bye-now.

Taiwan fo' life baybee! We don't need no U.S. money cuz we kangz!

Something like that happened. Looking good and being a competent ruler are not necessarily inclusive.

>>1825448
Japan fucking China over as always

American "intellectuals" spread the meme that he was corrupt and that the Chicoms were really just well-meaning agrarian reformists. The U.S. government believed and enacted an arms embargo against the Nationalists, while the Soviet Union gave full support to Mao, basically gifting the entire Japanese supplies they found in Manchuria.

Really, some day the New York Times will have to acknowledge their lies in the 20th century about communism. Walter Duranty, Brooks Atkinson, Herbert Matthews, it was just too systematic to be a coincidence, they were activelly shilling for commies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Atkinson

>While in China, he visited Mao Tse-Tung in Yenan and was captivated by Mao, writing favorably on the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) movement, and against the Nationalist government of Chiang Kai-Shek, which he saw as reactionary and corrupt. After visiting Yenan, he wrote that the CCP political system was best described as an "agrarian or peasant democracy, or as a farm labor party."[2][3] Atkinson viewed the Chinese Communist Party as Communist in name only and more democratic than totalitarian; the Times effusively titled his article Yenan, a Chinese Wonderland City.

>>1826391
China would just nuke Japan if it came down to us or them.

>>1830825
Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Mission

>Dixie Mission participants such as John Service were criticized for viewing the CPC leadership as socialist agrarian reformers, who claimed that China under their rule would not follow the violent path of Russia under the Bolsheviks. Instead, socialism would come to China only after economic reforms that preserved capitalism, so as to mature the society to a point where it would be prepared for a peaceful transition to a communist society. This belief was disseminated to the American people prior to and during the war by the popular authors Edgar Snow and Agnes Smedley. In his August 3, 1944, report, "The Communist Policy Towards the Kuomintang," Service underlined his opinion of the Communists as such and stated: "And the impressive personal qualities of the Communist leaders, their seeming sincerity, and the coherence and logical nature of their program leads me, at least, toward general acceptance of the first explanation -- that the Communists base their policy toward the Kuomintang on a real desire for democracy in China under which there can be orderly economic growth through a stage of private enterprise to eventual socialism without the need of violent social upheaval and revolution."[17]

It's really hard to know if people like John Service, George Marshall and Joseph Stilwell were just clueless or actively treasonous.

>>1830809
/thread

>>1830819
>as always

pseud detected

>>1826375
Yes

>>1830809
Okay

>>1830825
>>1830838
Butthurt Mccarthyists detected

It is historical fact that the KMT were corrupt, half warlords, and disliked by most Chinese.

>>1830871
This

The KMT were obviously disliked by most of the population to anyone who had half a fucking brain.

The KMT were funded by the world's largest industrial power yet managed to get defeated by a fat man running around the country talking about communism

>>1830880
>downplaying the reds this hard
Come on now.

>>1830871
>>1830880
Most governments are disliked by the majority of the people.

It's a historical fact that American intellectuals gave massive support for the Chinese Communist Party, that their propaganda campaign was successful at changing the image of Chiang in the West and changing U.S. policy towards the Nationalists.

The results of this are debatable, maybe the communists would have won anyway, but you can't deny this fact.

>>1830896

>you have to show extreme support for one side of the other

>>1830897
Yes, but disliked to the point that something as obscure as Mao's initial communist party that managed to take over the entirety of the country means there was a problem

Governments are always disliked by the majority of the people, yes, but when they are disliked so much to the extent they collapse it's clear they're obsolete

>>1830896
Just because I denounce X doesn't mean I support Y, history isn't like a sports game

>>1830897

KMT had no support from the rural peasants and general apathy from cities. He had no chance, champion.

Mao was a genius at propaganda and the amount of support he managed to gather after the Long March is astounding.

File: four olds.jpg (50KB, 400x526px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 400x526px

>>1830912
If that's true how could Mao keep uncovering hidden Nationalists everywhere until the 1970s?

>>1830938

Your hidden nationalists implies a minority. Also with Mao's arbitrary laws you have to ask yourself if they were truly Nationalists or people simply denounced as them so the CCP could get rid of them.

I can't believe you actually thought that was a good argument.

File: 1475861976348.png (439KB, 419x468px) Image search: [Google]

439KB, 419x468px

>>1830809
>Tight dime wife sells Hollywood a bill of goods in exchange for all that paper. Cuz imma pimp dat had her fuck the American ambassador four hours straight.
W-wait, what?

File: download (2).jpg (9KB, 348x145px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 348x145px

>>1825435
>Shanghai kek

>>1830985
NO DONT UR GONA SUMMON NICK LAND!.