Nation is a social construct, do you agree?

Loaded question. Next!

what about ethnical groups that already share a non fabricated tongue from their ancestors, a specific culture and all have a similar phenotype ?

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>>1818987

Social constructs are a social construct

>>1818978
Yeah and? These borders are a social construct now let's 10 million Somalians in it only makes sense!

>>1818988
>implying those are the foundations of a society

>>1818978
No. Nation is a combination of language, culture, economics, geography, religion and spirit that grows in a certain way. Not all nations are derived the same way but they are real.

>>1818978
They are social constructs in the sense that they are imagined communities. They are not social constructs in their reality of society.

>>1818978
Of course yes, what sort of moron would imply nations are genetic?

>>1819003
> language, culture, economics, religion and spirit
>implying those aren't social

>>1819003
>language, culture, economics, geography, religion and spirit

All social constructs.

>>1819003
>>1819014
Ooops, got geography in there too, didn't mean to.

>>1819014
Borders are social constructs, but I think rivers and mountains might not be.

>>1819013
>>1819014
I wouldn't consider economics or spirit social constructs.

>>1819027
You'd be wrong.

>'social realities' are not 'real realities'

>>1819027
>economics
>not a social construct
u srs?

>>1819036
Certain people are of the opinion that "social construct" is some communist new age term for things we should hate and disband, so they can't have economics be one.

>>1819036
On a certain level economics is merely a specific kind of ecology.

Its tools are constructed, but its subject is quite real.

Op is a Jew

>>1819076
On all levels you are full of shit. Economy is a function of society. No society, no economy.

>>1818978
Yes. And they were and still are often far from reality too. The main definition of nations is a common culture, but groups who just live closer to each other usually have more cultural similarities regardless of what nation they belong to. People in the northernmost US states are much more similar to Canadians then to Texans for example. The only reason they are in the same nation is because they have been in a single (federal) state, which is a social construct too. Or look at France: being French was barely even a thing for most of their history, France was instead had a bunch of regional identities (Provancians, Occitanians), autonomous cities with more or less their own laws etc. Same for most European countries.

So nation is not even really an organically constructed identity, but often one forced from the top down. An organic, more natural construct would be something like tribes and local communities. Nations literally came about by some people deciding that it would be nice to have a highly centralized state ruling over millions of people instead of a loose collection of local communities with their own privileges, laws and tradition. So they came up with this idea that people who more or less share a language and live in the same kingdom are actually a single community (imagined community), took elements from local cultures to create "French culture", "German culture" etc. Just look at how Wagner for example took all those ancient Germanic legends, turned them into operas and said that now this is the original and shared German tradition. Never mind that before Wagner, Jürgen from Hohenschwangau, Bavaria probably never heard of Tristan and Isolde.

>>1819084

Ecology is a 'function' of 'atmosphere-bound planet with organic matter'. No planet, no ecology. Does that mean the object of ecological inquiry is merely telluric?

>>1819084
I'm not disagreeing with you angry anon.

>>1819108
No, its atmosphere-bound planet with organic matter-ic.
I see what you are trying, but it falls flat. You don't have economy without society, as it is constructed by society, for its own needs.

>>1819118

That doesn't make it 'less real' than other phenomena.

>>1819119
>social constructs arent real
Project much? I bet you get mad when someone says spook.

>>1818978
Yes of course

>>1818978
yes city states are objectively superior for quality of life, but they are weak economically

>>1819119
Why are you under the impression that social constructs arent real?

>>1819137
Not just economically but in pretty much any regard. The only reason they exist is because their neighbours let them.

>>1819119
Language is a social construct, yet its real.
I think you are this kind of person >>1819038

>>1819132
>>1819138

Morons don't even know what you're thinking.

>>1819164

You're just as stupid as the other two

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>>1818978
Social constructs are:
a) a logic progression of nature through inherent human behaviour
b) inherently no more valuable or invaluable than a physical construct
wouldn't you agree?

>>1819165
>>1819167
>ur dum me smart !!!

Sure showed them.

>>1818978
Words are social construct.

>>1819229
>I refuse to answer your question, because it doesn't align with my political compass, so let me strawman and twist it a bit for you.

You are arguing against a claim nobody made, just so you can avoid answering a question you dislike.

>>1819238
I agree that a nation is a social construct. I then put forward a definition for such a categorisation.

The only twists and jumps here are you escaping my supposition.

>>1819246
>I agree that a nation is a social construct.
How much did it hurt to write that down?

>>1819253
Not at all. As I've elaborated on already, I value social constructs. I don't see the term as hurtful. In fact your dismissal of social constructs is more hurtful.

>>1819257
Social constructs are the shared view on what is real and how reality works among a group of people.
Thus it is feared by many conservative souls because most of society shares views contrary to their own, thus the overall social construct doesn't apply to their individual constructs.

Also, you say logic progression. I wouldn't say its entirely logical, nor is it always a progression. Something like a lucky pop song breakthrough can change the view society has on reality, morals and so on, and it isn't logically traceable. And progression implies that there is a known desirable direction to go through, and increase, a progression towards something superior or larger, and this isn't the case.

>>1818978
Agreed.
Doesn't mean it's a bad construct though.

>>1818978
Not at all

>>1819001
>nation equals society

retard much ?

Just because it's a social construct doesn't mean it's not real.

>>1818978
Yes. But social constructs are not a bad thing.
Essentially all of civilisation is based on social constructs and how they interact with each other. Without social constructs to keep people in line society would be a lot less stable.

>>1818978
Nope

>>1821105
Not an argument

>>1818978
but the state can exist withouth a social perspective.

>>1818978
Some Nations are.

I am looking at you, post-colonial """"""""""""""""""nation-states"""""""""""""""""""""""

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>>1822641
Ay piss off cunt.
We're still not letting you in you fucking leb.

>>1819084
SOCIETY IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT

>>1822651
Lebanon is literally one of those post-colonial """"""""""""nation-states""""""""""""".

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>>1822672
Then The bastards should stay in their own bloody country.

>>1818988
That doesn't exist, except on perhaps the smallest possible scale of the tribe. The progenitor of the modern idea of "ethnicity = nation" is the germans, but Germans from different parts of Germany spoke different languages like Low Germany and High German, they had different cultural regions (Germans of the Rhine lived a completely different life than those in Prussia), and groups like Prussians got assimilated then labeled as Germans.

The nation state is never found, it has to be created.

>>1822663
Well yes, that's rather obvious

>>1822663
Yes, and? You are the one who thinks its a dirty word. Moron.

It should be noted that its entirely possible for something to be a social construct and still be entirely real, and indeed even desirable.

Generic leftists

>>1822699
>Germans from different parts of Germany spoke different languages like Low Germany and High German
Dialects =/= language
>groups like Prussians got assimilated then labeled as Germans
That's the idea of a Reich. Willy 2 gave his war speech to the "German tribes". All of those tribes identified as Germans. Even Frisians and Sorbs.

>>1824374
language is an institutionalized dialect you dummy

>>1818978
Yeah.

But like Justice, Language, Money, Law, Science, and Family, it is an important one.

>>1819014
>geography
>social construct

>>1818978
You see, everything is social construct

>>1818978
Yes, the nation is a social construct, as are laws, ethics, authority and a bunch of other things humans take as being natural and unchanging.

But what is your point OP?

>>1819014
So?

>>1818978
Nations are an invention of 18th century liberals.

Nations do not create states, states create nations

>>1824576
what would that even mean?
It has never been properly defined what makes people German. The argument is way older than the 2nd Reich. Language, heritage and culture play the largest role.
Nowadays apparently people with a German passport are Germans. Guess what, that shit doesn't fly in practice. But please tell me more about the major differences between high and low German.
ål den lütki drönbüdels her schas vergeten. Nix wie schnacken ohn wat tou weten

>muh tacit consent

>>1819085
Yes.

>>1818978
Penises are a social construct. What prevents me from denying the xistence of my penis?

>>1818978
yes of course