Twisted fucking psychopath? Or misunderstood genius?

Dark, nihilistic, and with a vicious sense of humour.

Was right all along

Stalin used his methods and he was succesful.

>>1807936
>no one can rebel if everyone's dead
>EVERYONE

Is success really worth the cost?

>>1807942
>Is success really worth the cost?
Asks the loser

Official list of good Princes:
>Henry VIII
>Elizabeth I
>Stalin
>Hitler
Who else?

>>1807942
I'm talking from Stalin's perspective.

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>>1807953
>Henry VIII
>good

>>1807912
Both

>>1807912
He did literally nothing wrong. Anybody even slightly familiar with him beyond memes would know this.

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>>1808105
That's right, peasant, I did nothing wrong, and none will be any wiser.

I've read The Prince 11 times. I don't know why.

>>1807936
>stalin used his methods

i think he might have missed quaite a few there lad

>>1807953
Putin

It was satire guys, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously

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>>1808125
Love that statue of him.

>>1807912
He's a twisted fucking psychopathic genius

>>1807912
Misunderstood genius. He explained how rulers rule, and how to rule effectively. He also played a major role in separating a ruler's morality from a country's morality, giving philosophical justification to the actions of later state-builders.

His most important contribution, however, is his advocacy for Republics. His idea that the Roman Republic was better than the Empire was fairly radical, and is controversial even today. He also advocated for militias over mercenaries, and the 30 Years War proved him absolutely right.

What's more, he actually did it, the absolute madman. He trained Florence's militia under the Republic, and led them to success against against Pisa. When the Medici gained power, he was even tortured for his beliefs.

He also had a good sense of humor. Read The Mandrake; it's literally how to make a man a cuckold: the play.

>>1807912
Misunderstood sociopath

Guiciardini was much more autistic than Machivelli. Fucking History of Italy is just a bunch of random facts with no fucking tying thread, and its like 10 volumes and only covers like 50 years.

The most interesting part of The Prince to me is towards the end when he starts talking about how to cultivate yourself into a military leader during your leisure time.

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The Prince is experiencing an unwarranted renaissance thanks to the ol' fallacy of post hoc ergo procter hoc.

>A lot of political leaders are behaving in a way not dissimilar to how Machiavelli advised that they should in the Prince!
>Therefore they must all be reading the Prince, and putting it into practice!

Who honestly believes that anyone with political aspirations sits down to read this book, never mind incorporate the author's advice into their behaviour/demeanour/etc? Most people don't even read nowadays.

>>1809656

This.

>>1809656

Kissinger said he and Nixon had it on their bedside tables, to be read before bed on a daily basis.

>>1809656

you may be a shitposter 24/7, my frogposting friend, but others are not

>>1809804

Er, the frog actually has a pretty good point.

>>1809656
You're reading right now you nerd
The difference is the Prince actually has substance and intellectualism

t. Piccolo Bachiavelli

>>1807912
People seem to associate The Price with Machiavelli's personal beliefs. The man died a drunk on wine in a country villa, he had no ambition after his jail sentence and The Prince was more of an angry reaction to the universal believe in the Christian Benevolent Ruler (the kind that had him jailed), he told the truth he hated and that no one else wanted to hear. People later on realized this truth was all you would ever need, and God cared not a fig.

>>1809656

This guy has a point.

>>1809656
you might wanna check this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fphTuyJXTcQ

>>1809861

What next, Nat Geo/History channel videos?

>>1809826
>The Prince was more of an angry reaction to the universal believe in the Christian Benevolent Ruler
no, it was a letter written to the Duke of Milan in an effort to get a job as his political advisor. Did you miss the part at the end where he explicitly talks about how Spain and France have emerged from feudalism and coalesced into a single state while Italy has not and that if WE don't do something they'll roll right over us, which they most certainly did.

>>1807942
To Stalin? Sure, he didn't care much about those guys.

>>1807953
If you lose in the end, you weren't a good enough Prince, so Hitler is out.

>>1809720
Kissinger and JFK played Diplomacy.

Coincidence?

It was just a satire, guys.

>>1808763
>he actually believes this

There is some legitimately good advice written in The Prince for those who wish to rule over other nations:

> I say, then, that those States which upon their acquisition are joined on to the ancient dominions of the Prince who acquires them, are either of the same Province and tongue as the people of these dominions, or they are not. When they are, there is a great ease in retaining them, especially when they have not been accustomed to live in freedom. To hold them securely it is enough to have rooted out the line of the reigning Prince; because if in other respects the old condition of things be continued, and there be no discordance in their customs, men live peaceably with one another, as we see to have been the case in Brittany, Burgundy, Gascony, and Normandy, which have so long been united to France. For although there be some slight difference in their languages, their customs are similar, and they can easily get on together. He, therefore, who acquires such a State, if he mean to keep it, must see to two things; first, that the blood of the ancient line of Princes be destroyed; second, that no change be made in respect of laws or taxes; for in this way the newly acquired State speedily becomes incorporated with the hereditary. [Chapter III]

Also, it's highly likely that Machiavelli was trying to win the favour of the Medici family so they could give him his job back, so it wouldn't be wise of him to write bullshit in his texts.

It's not a satire or a guide on how a ruler should act in his opinion - but a study on how power and authority works.

>>1807942
Without stalin russia would lost the war

>>1807953
Napoleon

>>1807912
I haven't read the rest of his works, but there's literally nothing wrong or psycopathic in The Prince of Machiavelli. He's literally just pragmatic. He was making a point in his era, but today his ideas mostly just define how modern humans act and think.

>>1807912
I hate Machiavelli because everyone reads 'The Prince' or claims to when his compiled works in the volumes of 'The Discourses' are much more holistic and tailored to what people are after now

Also kys

>>1809656
Wast the whole point of The Prince and being Machiavellian was that no one would be quite sure of your true intentions? It doesn't take long to figure politicians out now, so I can't call most politicians Machiavellian in nature.

>>1809447
He wasn't tortured because of his ideas
He was tortured because he was a known supporter of the republic over the Medici's and his name was found in a list of anti-Medici conspirators

However he didn't really hate the Medicis he just prefered the republic. If anything his loyalties were pragmatic, like his philosophy, and he kowtowed to whoever was in power. He even asked for a job in the restored Medici regime.

He was exiled from the city by the Medicis, but the Medici Cardinal (a future Pope) gave him patronage as a historian of the city

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>>1807912
>OMG, this GUY IS SO HOT he can almost reunify italy and can like, sniff out traitor generals in his own ranks and dispatch them with cunning, I LOEV HIM XOXOXOXO. If only he wasn't too much of a daddy's boy *sigh.*
-Nicolo Machiavelli on Cesare Borgia.

>>1809720
>this
Even if most politicians haven't read the prince it is still worthwhile to read due to it's influence on Kissinger (who in turn has influenced American foreign policy a great deal).

>>1810754
Epistolar Machiaveli is best Machiaveli

>>1811243
>he wasn't tortured because of his ideas
>he was tortured because he was known to have ideas disliked by the Medicis