Why were the Nazi's such embarrassing failures?

>>1795258
The USSR were true National Socialists. Fascism didn't work in Germany because Germans are a bunch of pussy fagbois.

>>1795258
Because you're a stupid American commieboo who has never had to actually live under socialism.

>>1795258
Because you're an autistic LARPer who needs to be purged from this board by the mods

>>1795258
Hitler a good goy he dindu nuffin he just trying to get more reichsmarks for the volksgemeinschaft

>>1795305
What's wrong with autistic LARPing?

>>1795267
>ussr
>socialist

You don't really believe it was a worker's stare, do you anon?

the nazis undoubtedly were embarassing failures

but to contrast them with the soviets seems peculiar

seeing as the soviets, too, had been failures

>>1795258
And of course nothings embarrassing about the USSR using all their soldiers as cannon fodder due to the incompetence of their military, suffering 10 times more casualties than the enemy in order to finally win

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>>1795339

listing from wikipedia
>Estimated Soviet war dead is 8.6-10 million
>Estimated German war dead is 5.5 million

2v1 is not 10 v1.

even taking into account total USSR casualties overall, not war dead, we arrive at 27 million, the Germans are estimated at around 7 million, which if subtract a (generous) million from, we arrive at 6 million, so around 4 v1 at maximum. And that's with the Germans conducting an active genocidal campaign against the Russians.

>>1795339
>le Soviet human waves maymay

>>1795339
"If you protect your soldiers, they win"
-Joseph "Current year" Stalin

>>1795359
>>1795356
>T. autistic LARPers

>>1795364
>Anonymous 10/08/16(Sat)01:35:41 No.1795364▶
>>>1795359
>>>1795356 (You)
>>T. autistic LARPers
>correct nazis spouting autistic meme nonsense
>"autistic LARPer"
sure, hans, whatever helps you sleep at night.

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>>1795258
Both were retarded socialist pigs that didn't care about their people.

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Why did Hitler almost never let his troops retreat from unwinnable battles even though he knew in battles such as Stalingrad, Bagration, Courland and Poznan his forces had no chance of victory?

Tell me about mariskrova (or however it's spelled)?

And are there shreds to truth to what /his/ has been ranting about in regards to Soviet logisitics and troop movement being nigh-perfect? Lately /his/ has been conforming to this idea that the Soviets only seemed to attack in waves+have a numerical advantage because they were incredibly deft in moving around troops, and catching off less numerous german troops. Karkhov being a prime example of that.

So is any pf this true? Were the Soviets such geniuses at moving around troops that they fooled the world into believing that they were at a numerical advantage.

>>1795475

I'm no expert but in 1940-42 they only had a slight numerical advantage of a few hundred thousand more troops.

Only after Stalingrad and Kursk where they able to steamroll the Germans with zerg rushing them.

>>1795356
You should not forget that almost 2 million soviet soldiers were killed in the first year of war. Not because of human waves, but because wehrmacht caught soviets on the way to the front line. Maybe if they had two more weeks losses would've been significantly smaller. On June 22 Soviet army was still scattered all across the eastern european plain and could not possibly fight back.

>>1795496
>Only after Stalingrad and Kursk where they able to steamroll the Germans with zerg rushing them.
Was it really ever zerg-rushing them though, or more that the Soviets were pacing their attacks dynamically for the Germans not to recover from how they'd been sent reeling since Karkhov. By attacking every other hour of the day, you could seem slightly inept, but maybe there really was thought into how they attack.

The spazzing-out portrayed by Bagration can betray some idiotic "hurr let's just attack cause we can Sergei" thinking with them pushing in every conceivable direction westward, but was it really all that?

I mean, I'm not trying to make a Sovietboo of myself, but I really would be enthralled to know if the "dude, Soviets just spazzed out and shit" argument holds water at all.

And I'm going to come across as insanely but,
>n 1940-42 they only had a slight numerical advantage of a few hundred thousand more troops.
Are you saying this about the Germans or Russians?

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>>1795339
>suffering 10 times more casualties than the enemy

Not true, the Germans did not even inflict 2:1 battlefield deaths on the Soviets. The death differences were from the Germans killing civilians and prisoners.

>>1795524
>prisoners who died in captivity for the Soviets
And yet people still cling to this delusion that the Whermacht was bereft of any fanatical traits, when they were ready to leave their Soviet prisoners freeze to death all so they didn't have to care for them.

>>1795475
>And are there shreds to truth to what /his/ has been ranting about in regards to Soviet logisitics and troop movement being nigh-perfect?
yes

you know those german memoirs that have shaped the west's views on the eastern front for sixty years? those german reports that drone on and on about the russians outnumbering them? about the endless asiatic horde waves?

that's because the soviets concentrated forces and attacked in force, not because they were magical scifi beings capable of reproduction by division

fun fact: for the first months of the war it was the soviets who were outnumbered as much as 2:1 on the entire front, a ratio the soviets would themselves achieve... in 19 fucking 44

>>1795502
Also people tend to forget the fact that Soviets were fighting not only against German troops, but also Italian, Romanian and so on. Add their losses to and than compare them to those of the Soviet Union.

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>>1795475
masakirovka?
Basically it was just Russians finding out they can use deception against the Fritz.

>Lately /his/ has been conforming to this idea...
Try reading more carefully, that was case of op Bagration and destruction of Heeresgruppe Mitte.

>In order to maximize the chances of success, the maskirovka was a double bluff. The Soviets left four tank armies in the L'vov-Peremyshl area and allowed the Germans to know it. The attack into Romania in April–June further convinced the Soviets that the Axis forces in Romania needed removing and kept the Germans concerned about their defences there and in southern Poland, while drawing German forces to the L'vov sector.[30] Once the offensive against Army Group Centre, which lacked mobile reserves and support, had been initiated, it would create a crisis in the central sector that would force the German armoured forces north to Belorussia from Poland and Romania, despite the presence of powerful Soviet concentrations threatening German-occupied Poland.[31]

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>>1795533
Alright thanks a whole bunch friend!

It must have weighed quite sadly on those Soviet generals to know that they'd be remembered by history as meme generals who supposedly squandered their ressources by sending men out to die in hordes, all because they'd mastered their own art so well that the world genuinely thought that Soviets were rampaging in 10:1 ratios everywhere. Oh well, at least they ended up with the best uniform of WW2 in my opinion.

So where else could I read more about how those Soviet generals really fashioned the Eastern front with their troop movement.

The only ever book I've ever skimmed through that has acknowledged this about the Soviet army is the WW2 by Beevor, and even then he only mentions it fo the battle of Khalkhin Gol. Sorta sick of hearing about human waves that only ever happened for Stalingrad.

>>1795534
but anon, 5.5 million killed versus 10 million (including 3 million killed not on the battlefield but dying in captivity) does not conform to my dehumanizing view of the soviets as a zerglike hivemind entity whose drones are slaughtered by the dozen by a single the valiant, honorable, morally clean teutonic savior of the human race?

>>1795542
i enjoy reading stuff about ww1 and there this sort of memery is ramped up to eleven
"hurr durr dey wuz donkeys leading lions"

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>>1795258
just looking at it, makes you feel ill

>>1795535
>masakirovka?
Thank you, no wonder that finding any more information on the matter has been escaping me if I spelled it that badly.

And so the intent of masakirovka can be labelled as purposely letting the enemy now of certain troops, while hiding others from his sight?

>>1795555
>masakirovka
*maskirovka
Same etymology as English "mask" I believe.

>>1795555
Maskirovka, as in "masking"
masakirovka was just my bad slav-joke to make sound like "massacring"

>And so the intent of masakirovka can be labelled as purposely letting the enemy now of certain troops, while hiding others from his sight?
On basic level. Maskirovka is just general term for deception. It can be used on many levels, be it strategic or tactical. If you are interested in it, there is a decent article on wiki.

>>1795562
It's "masakra" in polish desu

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>>1795542
>remembered by history as meme generals
I really don't think they cared. They had a war to win.
>Oh well, at least they ended up with the best uniform of WW2 in my opinion
I'd give this one to Nazis
>Sorta sick of hearing about human waves that only ever happened for Stalingrad.
What's funny is that losses were basically the same.

>>1795561
>Same etymology as English "mask" I believe.
>>1795562
>Maskirovka, as in "masking"
Ah nice, that should enhance how well I can memorize that name then. Once again, thanks a bunch for being served all this information on a platter. And it wasn't such an awful joke, just that I wasn't prepped for "getting it" since I know nothing of maskirovka at the moment.

And I'm on my way that wikipedia article then.

>>1795568
>I really don't think they cared. They had a war to win.
So were the Soviet generals perhaps the least egotistical military leaders from all nations bogged in WW2. Well them being let off their leash by Stalin mustl've contributed too. No more political boot-licking for them to fret about. But basically they threw their future reputation down the toilet all so they could win quickly.

I know that Japanese generals were endlessly competing between themselves to please Tokyo, and screwing up everything as they went along, that French generals (not FFL mind you) were constantly on the lookout for arguments with Belgian or British generals to depict one or the other as the scapegoat for the defeat, that German generals were always launching into follies all to get noticed by Hitler, etc...

>>1795579
>But basically they threw their future reputation down the toilet all so they could win quickly.
But they were seen as heroes by soviets. So much so, that, for example, Khrushchev was seriously afraid of Zhukov becoming the general secretary after Stalin. Thats how much respect he, and other WWII generals had after war.
>and screwing up everything as they went along
>were constantly on the lookout for arguments with Belgian or British generals
That's some fucked up shit actually.

>>1795258
They take after their leader

>>1795475
>And are there shreds to truth to what /his/ has been ranting about in regards to Soviet logisitics and troop movement being nigh-perfect?

I'm a bit late to the party, but during WWII the Soviets mechanized their armies to an almost ridiculous degree. Lend-Lease certainly helped in that regard but the USSR's industrial potential was insane to begin with.

Their intelligence network was also very strong, partly because they were given Ultra intercepts by the Allies, party because they were very efficient at gathering information from captured/dead German soldiers, officers and local partizan networks.

The only time the Soviets used human wave tactics was at the onset of the war, when NKVD officers demanded heroic last stands and battles to the death.
Also, during the defense of Moscow they sent lightly armed civilians to harass and bog down the German spearheads. These (almost Volkssturm-like) bands of irregulars were usually machinegunned to shit and their effectiveness is debatable.

STAVKA eventually convinced Stalin that the generals should be doing their own thing - so the NKVD ideological officer disappeared and the Soviets proved to be extremely proficient at manuever warfare, Zhukov and Rokossovski being the prime exponents. Even so, Stalin fucked up a few times by insisting on broad front offensives, which negated the advantage of concentrated breakthroughs.

Yes, the Soviets had a fuckhuge manpower pool from which to replenish their armies, but their total amount of soldiers never massively outweighed the German Army until the last part of the war.

Their armies just used a strict sense of operational timing to all arrive at the same place at the same time; which, alongside their knack for intelligence and counter-intelligence operations, gave those 'holy shit they have a 10 to 1 advantage' descriptions.

>>1795258
It's actually hilarious watching stormfags scramble when they shit on the USSR and then in the same breath praise Nazi Germany despite it being a massive failure in comparison.

>>1795339
A 2:1 ratio isn't "ten times" and besides, almost half of the casualties were Soviet POW's who were killed through starvation.

Why didn't Hitler just build a "maginot line" across the Soviet border, and then just concentrate on the logistical and colonial wars with Britain?

>>1795951
>lets build a series of fortifications across the steppes while waging a war against the inselaffen.

>>1795962
Well, I mean, why not?

The Soviets had their Stalin and Molotov lines, which weren't autistic "stop them everywhere" forts, but were designed to channel the enemy through certain avenues while leaving pockets of resistance in the way of establishing a continuous front.
The Germans were held up pretty conclusively by their inability to capture the cities of Lenin and Stalingrads, would it not have stood to reason that some type of similar system built around the Polish cities and rivers might have had a chance?

>>1795445
>>1795265

>le Nazis were Socialist meme

The nazis were all to happy to be a corporation's fuccboi. Look at all the money they pumped into their industry

>>1795951

When you are dependent on the soviets for resources, they might be less forthcoming if they see you building a wall to keep them out.

>>1795258
Soviets were much shittier. Nazis killed a lot of Jews and gave us all kinds of technology. What did the Soviets give us besides Communism?

Wait no, I'm sorry. That screencap did not talk about the Soviet logistical system.

>>1797297
THE SOVIETS GOT TO FUCKING SPACE YOU FUCKING CLASSKEK

stop swallowing that porky propaganda about how america won the space race fascist capitalist cuck

>>1797313
America got to the moon first, which is what really matters. Soviets were and have always been shit at everything which is why their country is a poor Communist shithole.

>>1797317
what a fucking classcuck the only reason america even made it to the fucking moon was because of their rampant imperialism and stealing resources from the people, cuck

how about you actually post a real argument you fucking cucked idiot

>>1795533
>you know those german memoirs that have shaped the west's views on the eastern front for sixty years?
Opposed to Soviet propaganda which has shaped the East's views? Yes, certainly we should take Commie propaganda for granted.

>>1797322
>lazy Commie making excuses for his peoples inferiority

>>1797333
its the fucking capitalist fascists that are the lazy ones classcuck they made it to the moon off the backs of oppressed workers and imperialism what a fucking cuck sucking porky dick

>>1797337
We've been more successful in the long run and Communism is as dead as the Soviet Union, which ruined all the countries it occupied.

You can say what you will, because the battle is already over.

And America has won.

>>1797326
Okay, anon. Which seems more likely: that the Soviets had the logistical means to concentrate and attack in force whenever they went on an offensive? Or that the Germans were so shit at war that they couldn't impose anything but a 2-1 kill ratio despite being outnumbered 10-1 at every single point?

>>1797356
it lost because fucking porky cucks kept subverting communism everywhere it turned up it was the fucking imperialist cucks who brought down the USSR not communism

get educated fucking classcuck

>>1797359
>the Germans were so shit at war that they couldn't impose anything but a 2-1 kill ratio despite being outnumbered 10-1 at every single point?
So just being twice as good as the average Russian despite being outnumbered 10 - 1 makes them bad at war?

>>1795258
Probably because they had to fight the UK and USA at the same time as they were fighting with the USSR.

>>1797297
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_innovation#.C2.A0Soviet_Union

That's a lot of inventions that came out of the USSR. They also were instrumental in the fight against diseases through the application of vaccines in foreign aid programs around the world. I am not a communist, and the Soviet regime committed many most terrible and heinous crimes, but they did do good things for the universality of mankind as well.

By contrast, the Nazi inventions are of more doubtful utility. The vast majority are overrated, weren't actually invented, were made by the allies, or simply were useless. Jet engines? Already being made by the British. Guided missiles? Cool invention, but the Allies had their own equivalent project. Computers? Ditto to jet engines, the Allies had their own equivalent projects. Autobahn? Not a nazi invention, roads aren't an impressive invention either, and other countries had highways too. The only significant thing they made a lot of advances in was rocketry. Other areas they were competitive in, but not really cutting edge.

>>1797386
Not to mention that America supplied the Soviets with a fuckload of equipment and saved their asses.

>>1795460
Because he was a retard too proud to admit defeat. He spent his entire post war life boasting about the glorious German armies that would never retreat, never be defeated, etc etc.

>>1797381
One would think that if they were so good and the Soviets only had numbers on their side they'd kill more of them on the defensive.

But they didn't, so that either means the Soviets were making their attacks with much fewer men than the Germans were assuming or that the Germans weren't good enough. Your choice.

>>1797386
not true fucking cuck the ussr was being subverted by the fascist capitalists in germany and the west

cut the porky cuck lie shit

>>1797402
>One would think that if they were so good and the Soviets only had numbers on their side they'd kill more of them on the defensive.
But they did. They killed twice as many despite being outnumbered. No matter how you twist this, it speaks for itself.

>>1797410
So, you're so deepset into your memes that you're refusing to consider the Soviets were good at logistics and that they only won through WE HAVE MORE MEN THAN THEY HAVE BULLETS ZERG RUSH KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE?

>>1797414
>WE HAVE MORE MEN THAN THEY HAVE BULLETS ZERG RUSH KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE
Sounds like something Commies would do.

>>1795644
The Soviets WERE more successful at killing Russians, that is true.

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>>1795644

>>1795359
>human wave
>meme
they did it in winter war at least

>>1797423
first off it's "communist" not commie, classcuck

also yes the communists have support from the people you fucking cuck thats why they have more fucking manpower cuck

the real villains are the fascistic capitalistic classcucks who were oppressing the workers and other cultures through imperialism cuck

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>>1797438
Yeah, where they learned it did not work at all.

>>1797438
>>>/pol/

why the fuck did all you classcucks just run away DEBATE ME YOU KEKS

i know your still here fash fucking debate me

debate me you fucking cuck i'll wipe out your fucking fascist ass with facts, logic and reason

>>1797440
>cuckcuckcuckcuckcuck
It's like trying to hold a conversation with a god damn rooster.

HELLLO FASH debate me you fucking classcuck

>>1797466
not an argument

fucking debate me you fascist scumbag cuck shit

I KNOW YOUR STILL FUCKING HERE FASH DEBATE ME YOU MEGA KEK

where the fuck did you go fash come out and fucking debate me or are you to scared to get a fucking ass whooping by facts, logic, reason and intelligent

fascist scumbag rancid swine

debate me you rancid swine

>>1797468
>>1797472
>>1797477
You need to get some fresh air.

Also the USSR was able to put forth that many men because they were in service to the state. They would be shot, or labelled a traitor if they so much as thought about running from the field.

why the fuck wont any of you stormweenie cucks actually debate me

rancid fucking swine knows their a bunch of fucking classcucks fighting for the fascistic-capitalisticic imperialist porkies

>>1797495
Nice porky propaganda cuck

debate me stormweenies

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>>1797472
>>1797477
>>1797490
What's there to debate? You're just a proponent of a deluded and destructive ideology.

>>1797500
>Begs for people to debate him
>I debate him
>he shoots it down as "propaganda".
People like you are the reason I left /his/ for a while. Your autism is greater than /r9k/.
Have you left your room in the last several days?

>>1797514
nice fucking meme cuck of course marx never exploited the proletariat classcuck

>>1797517
Because what you wrote is literally fascist capitalist porky propaganda.

Come back when you can actually debate with facts and reason classcuck.

>>1797432
To be fair you could replace USSR with Germany and the hat with that of any Allied country. IIRC the USSR didn't even sign the Geneva Convention, though, so they weren't bound by it.

>>1797527
Facts and reason in this day and age are whatever people believe they are.
History itself is written by the winners, and what I'm doing is restating what the winners have said.
If you have some credible statistics on the losing side then bring them forth. For something relatively recent it should be easy to find something that isn't propaganda now shouldn't it?

>>1797536
fuck off cuck i dont have time for this unintellectual drivel

stick your porky propaganda up your ass fash

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>>1797542
Short for fashionable I assume?

>>1797553
short for fascist piece of shit cuck

>>1797559
I really can't tell if your a huge troll, or just this much of an angry sperg.
I guess that means you win, have a good time.

>>1797568
BASH THE FASH
A
S
H

T
H
E

F
A
S
H

any other fashcucks up for a debate i'll fucking whoop your ass with logic

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>>1797254

>>1797586
>asks for proof
>KEKKEKFASHKEKPROPAGANDA

you could at least not act like a complete fool

>>1797586
>>1797559
>>1797542
>>1797522
>>1797513
>>1797500
epic falseflagging, /pol/

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>>1797586
>logic
I am sure you are rusing right now to play up to the fedora stereotype.

>>1797333
>>1797317

You're first on the moon, but they were first at everything else.

>>1797924
>americans
>first on the moon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_9

>>1797935
I meant, first to send a cowboy to walk on it's surface.

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>>1797457
>DEBATE ME

my sides!

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>>1797586

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>>1798224

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>>1797882

>>1798413
That's Jim Sterling, you dip.

>>1795258

Because he was a fucking beta fascist cuckold. Threadly reminder that /pol/ worships a figure who

>had a micro d
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/wtf/medical-records-reveal-adolf-hitler-had-deformed-micropenis/news-story/70934b033c441d262481f8bd4c456b48
>had a possible fling with men, making him gay

Historian Lothar Machtan argues in The Hidden Hitler (2001) that Hitler was homosexual.

>Had to rely on bull semen to improve his testosterone

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/adolf-hitler-was-a-coke-addict-and-was-injected-821052
>was an absolute Beta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefanie_Rabatsch#Interaction_with_Hitler
According to Kubizek, Hitler never spoke to Stefanie, always saying he would do so "tomorrow".[2] He loathed those who flirted with her, especially the military officers, whom he called "conceited blockheads";[3] he came to feel an "uncompromising enmity towards the officer class as a whole, and everything military in general. It annoyed him that Stefanie mixed with such idlers who, he insisted, wore corsets and used scent".[3] Hitler insisted that Kubizek stalk Stefanie and delivered daily reports on her activity while he was away visiting his mother or family.[4] In one report, Kubizek wrote that Stefanie loved to dance and had taken lessons. Hitler disliked dancing and reportedly replied, "Stefanie only dances because she is forced to by society on which she unfortunately depends on. Once Stefanie is my wife, she won't have the slightest desire to dance!"[4] In June 1906, Stefanie gave Hitler a smile and a flower from her bouquet as she was passing him in her carriage.[5] Kubizek later described the scene:
“ Never again did I see Adolf as happy as he was at that moment. When the carriage had passed he dragged me aside and with emotion he gazed at the flower, this visible pledge of her love. I can still hear his voice, trembling with excitement, 'She loves me!'[5]

>>1798410
>>1798413
>communist posting from his iphone
the memes are true

>>1798432
Why is it that SJWs always argue ad hominem? Not even a Nazi, but what does Hitler having a microdick have to do with whether his policies were right or not?

>>1798560
fun fact anon, don't take it so personally

>>1798432
>blah blah blah hitler was gay and had only one ball

>>1795258
They were embarassing failures because there was no such thing as pure person. Just pure of heart.

>>1798768
>In December 2015, it was reported that doctor's notes from Landsberg Prison recorded that Hitler had "right-sided cryptorchidism".[2]


HE HAD ONE BALL LMFAO

>>1798708
The point is that this is a frequently emerging pattern. It's like SJWs have no arguments that support their side.

>>1795460
Not enough fuel for elastic warfare.

>>1795265
> ussr were true national socialists

I am about to explode

>>1799039
lmaooooooooooooo go back to /pol/ fukcing underage nazi [laughing emoji]

>>1798432
Don't forget he hid in his cuckbunker while big, strong Soviet bulls were literally raping Germany.

>>1797254
And also be amazed at how it meant zero of their tools and vehicles had interchangeable parts.

>>1799184
Even when there was fuel he forbade his Generals from retreating....he was stuck in the World War I thinking of fixed lines

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they inspired cool mecha shit

>>1799261
>rape as an achievment
Communism is LITERALLY a nigger-tier ideology.

>>1799039
It's weird, Hitler is just "literally Hitler" to them. Why bust a dead guys ball over being a "shit artist?" I can think of a million jews why he might have been a bad dude. Why would you try to assassinate the character of a dead guy who threw us into a world war, might as well keep beating my wife too. She's dead.

>>1799378
In the Soviet Union alone an estimates regarding the rape of Soviet women by the Wehrmacht range up to 10,000,000 incidents, with between 750,000 and 1,000,000 children being born as a result.
Both armies had penalty for rape but in reality, rapes by Germans of non-German women were not taken seriously, nor was it punishable by death, especially in the eastern European territories.

Sources:

“1) Bielanski, David (2004). "Gender and the World Wars: An Integrated Epoch of Change"
2) R. Mühlhäuser, Eroberungen: sexuelle Gewalttaten und intime Beziehungen deutscher Soldaten in der Sowjetunion 1941-1945
3) Trial of the Major War Criminals before the International Military Tribunal (there is PDF to download)
4) Askin, Kelly Dawn. "War crimes against women: prosecution in international war crimes tribunals"
5) Jacobsen, Hans-Adolf (1968). "The Kommisssarbefehl and Mass Executions of Soviet Russian Prisoners of War". Anatomy of the SS State. Walter and Company: New York. pp. 505–536

Communism has it's flaws, but it revolutionized military technology, physiological warfare and it ushered us all into an era of space flight, while the only success of National Socialism was the wholesome destruction of mainland Europe.